WEBVTT - ‘I know I’m a polarising figure’: Alan Joyce on Qantas, reputational collapse and his legacy 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:03.480 I think it's one of the best iff not deepest 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:06.240 aviation job in the world and I'm verady honored that 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:07.960 the Quantas bore it has selected me. 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:09.240 For that role. 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:13.280 Alan Joyce was once one of Australia's most admired business leaders, 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:16.279 but by the time he left Quantas he had become 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:17.960 one of the country's most hated men. 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.160 Three point eight million dollars that is the eye watering 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.479 amount former Quants chief Allan Joyce will receive in his 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.560 final payout from the airline. The bonus, in the form 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.720 of surging shares, comes two years after a string of 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:35.279 incidents steeped the airline into reputational crisis, leading to his 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:36.599 high profile departure. 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:39.720 His final years at the airline were marked by illegal sackings, 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:44.320 cancel flights with held refunds, and a collapse in public trust. 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:47.160 Quantus has lost its appeal in the High Court over 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:50.879 the illegal sacking of about seventeen hundred workers during the pandemic. 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:53.519 Quantus has been fined two hundred and fifty thousand dollars 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:56.720 and convicted for illegally standing down a worker during the 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:00.000 pandemic after he raised concerns about the risk of COVID 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.640 nineteen to staff cleaning aircraft from China and the Arible 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:07.080 c is taking legal action against Quantus, claiming the company 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:10.680 was selling tickets for flights it had already canceled. 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:13.280 But in a new memoir, Joyce defends many of his 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:16.880 decisions that made him a symbol of corporate arrogance and distrust. 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:24.720 I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven am today 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:28.840 former Quantus chief executive Alan Joyce and what he believes 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:32.399 Australians got wrong about him and whether he accepts responsibility 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:38.839 for the damage done on his watch. It's Monday, July 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:47.760 twenty seven. Alan, You spent fifteen years running quantustan left 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:51.800 to meet extraordinary public backlash that you were largely unable 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.320 to respond to. So why did you feel the need 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:56.800 to write this book and what is it that Australians 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.560 have most misunderstood. 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:01.920 About you the book? I wanted to write the book 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.440 for some time. You know, as you read in the book, 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:08.640 it's got full of my entire family history, my entire 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.080 life about being a gay man and coming out as gay. 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.280 It talks about all of the early days the Quantas, 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.720 some of the high tension issues like the QF thirty two, 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:21.480 and then it goes into the period, the last couple 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.520 of years, the of the COVID period and what happened. 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:28.000 Then I talked about it from my perspective of what happens. 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:32.160 Put the facts down and explain the conditions and the background. 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:34.560 People may not agree with me, still, I know that. 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:36.960 I know I'm a polarizing figure where it was. Also 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:39.800 put my side of that story and explain how we 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:41.760 made those decisions from my perspective. 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.200 Okay, So if we go to those last couple of 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:48.440 years and we talked about COVID in particular, because from 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:50.760 a public perspective, that's where things really sort of went 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.160 off the rows during COVID, Quantus I legally sect eighteen 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:57.520 hundred and twenty grand workers. The High Court ultimately found 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.480 that Quantus acted unlawfully and the company has since fast 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.280 one hundred and twenty million dollars in conversation and a 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.400 ninety million dollar penalty. In the book, you still describe 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:10.840 outsourcing those jobs as the rock call why And. 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.519 I do say that, you know, when you look back 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.320 to the period when the decision was made in twenty twenty, 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:21.360 we were starting at potentially the company going back grupt. 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.480 We had to make a whole series of decisions to 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.160 make actually up to ten thousand people redundant. I think 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:32.000 around the world in aviation, our aviation related jobs, over 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:35.160 two million people were made redundant. It was the worst 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:39.080 period in our history, and we were fighting for survival. 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:41.640 And I had I explained in the book, I had 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:46.280 friends like nearly twenty five percent of management went at 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:49.119 people I worked with for twenty years that were made redundant. 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:51.240 I was in tears. They were in tears. 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:55.080 It was horrendous and we did everything with that intent 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:59.520 to save the company. Now I recognize that those eighteen 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.240 hundred workers that was an illegal action. 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:04.320 It was found to be against the law. 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:06.760 But at the time in the book, I explained when 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.240 we made the call, nobody thought it was going to 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:12.640 be illegal. The legal advice we had was that it 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.600 wasn't going to be It went to the board, it 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.839 went to me, I went to the entire management team. 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.839 Everybody thought we needed to do it. It wasn't something 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:25.200 that we taught, we would we wanted to do. None 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:28.280 of this was I'd say how heartbreaking it was, because 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:32.080 just six seven months before that, but this was harding 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.480 a massive amount of people. It was making record profits, 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:42.000 record customer satisfaction, record employee engagement. But when when COVID happened, 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.680 Enoch does and every airline for six and every airline 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.680 had to make similar decisions. But nobody said out doing 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.200 anything illegal. But the court found it that way. And 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:51.880 I accept that. 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:53.840 You believe it was the right call. But you're also 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.760 right that headquarters nine, how quickly travel would return, it 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.960 would have not have done it. Doesn't that suggest that 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:03.039 it was based on an assumption that turned out to 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.440 be wrong. So doesn't that mean it was the wrong call? 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.559 Well, I think you know, hindsight's great, Daniel I say 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:11.000 in the book, you know, you make decisions in real 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.200 time and they're evaluated in hindsight, and I think that's 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.000 the reality of a lot of things we do in life. 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:20.680 I'd actually deport yourself in our position in the middle 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:24.360 of twenty twenty when we made these calls, and at 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.000 the time nobody thought that nobody knew there was going 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:29.720 to be a vaccine, nobody knew that there was going 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:31.040 to be a rapid rebound. 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:32.640 So you have to make the. 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:36.200 Decision with those that knowledge at the time that that 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.560 knowledge at the time was the best decision you could make. 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:39.920 Hindsight's great. 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:42.000 If I knew everything that was going to happen later, 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:44.520 we wouldn't have made that call. We wouldn't have had 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.520 to make that ten thousand people rednded, We wouldn't have 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:49.880 had to do that restructuring that we had at the time, 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:51.880 and we wouldn't have had to made the whole season 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:56.760 tough decisions. Unfortunately, we didn't have that foresight. We didn't 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:00.080 have that material when we were making the decision. We 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:02.440 had to make it with the information we had at 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:02.880 the time. 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.839 When the board is closed during the pandemic, quite of sudden, 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:08.200 we had billions of dollars of customers money tied up 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.760 in council flights. You wrote in the book that issuing 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:14.480 credits was the only viable path, but quantasion terms said 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.560 that customers were entitled to refunds, and around eighty percent 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:21.880 of customers holding COVID credits were eventually found eligible for refunds. Yes, 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.280 shouldn't that have been made clear to customers from the 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:25.120 very beginning? 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:27.719 Yeah, we got that wrong because we were in I'll 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.480 explain why we did credits first, and I'll say why 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.440 we got that one wrong. At the start, we had 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.160 twenty two million buildings in the system, I think at 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:40.000 the time, and when the borders started closing down, most airlines, 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:44.360 including ourselves, not all airlines, but most referred to credits 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:48.320 as a way of managing it because every single customer 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.800 and issue could was different. Some customers may have had 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:55.960 expired credit cards them, customers may have half an itinery 0:06:56.080 --> 0:07:00.440 use them. Customers had and their builkings through travel, so 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.360 we didn't hold the credit card details. A lot of 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.680 the international bookies were there, so it was extremely complex 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.000 and the easiest way to do it was to convert 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:12.680 the flight credits, which most airlines did now at the start, 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:16.000 and we did say we got that wrong and making 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.360 sure it was clear to customers that they had the 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.880 choice for refunds, but we also had the call center 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:25.240 melting down at the time because of all the disruption 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:28.200 because it wasn't a signed for that, and the easiest 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:30.760 thing was to ask customers would accept taking it in 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.880 credit and then using it, and then over time the 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.000 credits was chunky, and I then apologized for that, but 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:39.480 over time we got it better and better and better, 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.840 and eventually, you know, after one point six billion in 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:45.560 credits that were there. By the time I'd left, that 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.920 had come down to less than six hundred million, So 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:51.800 a billion of the credits were used, and none of 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:55.120 the quotest credits ever expire, And there's still over three 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:58.480 hundred million. If your any if your listeners have a credit, 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:00.840 there's still three hundred million of them there on the 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:03.680 Quantus balance sheet and they still can use them today, 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.320 So go back and find it, or go to Quantus 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.160 and try and find it, because they're still usable. 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:10.640 So by the end we did the right thing and 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:11.200 go right. 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:13.840 At the start, we didn't and it was messy and 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.680 I regret that, but it was the nature of the 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:17.760 situation we were in. 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.680 Then there's the issue of the ghost flights saga, where 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:24.280 Quantas continued to sell tickets on flights that had already 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:27.200 decided to counsel and failed to promptly tell close to 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.120 eight hundred and eighty four thousand passages their flights were off. 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:32.880 Quanta says this was a system value and not a 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:36.680 deliberate scheme, but the company admitted it benefited from retaining 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.480 revenue and keeping customism might otherwise have booked with other airlines. 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.640 Why should a reasonable person not see that it's quite 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.800 as profiting from conduct in you was misleading. 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:50.920 Well, because you know, well, it wasn't. It wasn't what 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:52.959 we were accused of at the time. And I think 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.400 subsequently that came out because there wasn't a fear for 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.520 our service. Because you look at the data and I 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.400 think got all of those customers and the best of 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.560 customers either got a flight within an hour or two 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:08.400 or the same day that they booped, and the ninety 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:11.679 eight percent of the international customers got the same day 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.640 or another. Airlines and the people in Quantas I believe 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:17.240 did absolutely the right thing. 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:20.640 They were trying to minimize customer disruption. They didn't do 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:23.280 it for us to gain at the edge. 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:28.120 Absolutely fundamentally believe that it wasn't egregious in any way, 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:30.480 and they did it to try and help the customer 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:32.800 and manage the customer and outcome. Of course the a 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.000 trible c didn't see it that way. I accept that, 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.920 but I think that the fact showed that they this 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.280 was not egregious, This was not f b for no 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:44.400 service in pact. All the customers either got a refund 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:46.720 or they traveled and they traveled pretty close to the 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:49.720 time that they went on. I would say it's actually 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:54.800 it's interesting that even today, you know, Katara Airways, for example, 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.720 is doing the stuff that we were accused of doing 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:00.480 back then. And I'm sure the a Triple C looking 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:04.160 at that because I think that is that's happening, and 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.120 I hope their Triple see just as a look at 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:09.080 Quantus cases on these things, but looks at a case 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.040 that occurs on other airlines because of what's happening in 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:14.720 the Middle East and with some of the flight's been 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:16.080 closed down and started up. 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:18.040 That's I think it's happening today. 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.800 Still become the elite world of the Quantus chairman's lounge. 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:28.640 Is it used to buy political favors. One of the 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:31.320 most fascinating things that I guess the listeners would want 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.120 to know about would be the chairman's lounge, and there's 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:38.319 been intense scrutiny over it. Critics say that giving out 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:42.240 free memberships creates serious conflicts of interest, potentially allowing the 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:47.120 airline to buy political favors and favorable regulatory treatment. In 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:49.600 the book, you say that's not the case, that it's 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:53.320 just a relationship building tool, but these are relationships with politicians, 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.960 judges and some of Australia's most powerful people. 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:58.720 Yeah, Daniel, But what I would say is that you 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.880 know a lot of people of hospitality in different ways. 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.640 We use an airline have the lounge, A lot of 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:08.200 airlines have similar lounges. Virgin has one very similar that 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:12.360 it allows politicians to use, might think and other customers 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.160 and the vast majority of people that get access to 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:19.520 the Quantas Chairman's Club are corporate accounts there, the PHPs, 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.439 the banks and the big companies that give quotas a 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:25.000 lot of business and it's related to the businesses that 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.360 they give. And then of course there is the government 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:31.559 and it's generally perceived on the government side and this 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:35.520 is their call and it's generally perceived as long as 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.880 they declare these gifts, it's regarded as acceptable. 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:40.160 And if you've ever looked. 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:44.000 Through the Register of Gifts, you know Quotas club players there, 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.360 the Chairman's Club appeers there, but there's lots of other 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:49.600 gifts and hospitality from a lot of other industries. In 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:51.720 the book, I make the point out, Daniel, you know, 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.199 if it was that strong of an influence, I think 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:57.080 it's there for good commercial reasons, but that strong of 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.920 an influence. The big things we wanted the government to do, 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:04.800 changed the Quanta Sale Act, regular airports. We never got there, 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.040 and there were big changes that I would have been 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.520 I would have been unbelievably keen for, and I think 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:13.800 it's giving us too much credit. 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.120 That we got the quitar rights changed. 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:18.520 I think the government made that decision for a whole 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.160 series of other reasons. We know, you know, there was 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.400 the issue with the women in Cantar and what happened 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.360 with them. There was a lot of reasons around that decision. 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:28.880 And if I thought it was what we did in 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:31.640 my lobbying, I'd be claiming that I'd be saying great, 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:33.840 that was my job. My job as CEO is to 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:37.599 lobby the government to try and get Quanters's position. But 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:39.640 I think it's given us too much credit, and there 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.200 was a lot of stuff I didn't successfully lobby the 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:44.160 government don which I had. 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.840 In twenty eighteen, Quantas was Australia's third most trusted brand, 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.040 according to Roy Morgan. By the end of twenty twenty 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:55.959 two was fortieth. You often point to Quantas's financial survival 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.680 and profitability as a measure of your success. Wasn't the 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.760 collae see public trust be treated as an equally important 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:03.960 measure of your legacy. 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.880 Yeah, I think that was terrible. 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.960 As I say Daniel Indboog, you know I was thinking 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:13.760 or retarding. In twenty twenty, I steped on the help 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:18.240 caut us through the COVID crisis that was occurring. 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:19.680 In twenty nineteen. 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:23.040 Just before COVID, we had the highest customer satisfaction in 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:26.080 our history, the high share price in our history, highest 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:30.640 employee engagement. We were on the verge of having projects sunrise. 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.760 I got that through the board for that to happen. 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:37.120 We were one of the most trusted brands and COVID 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:42.080 here US hit every airline for six including US, and 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:43.679 every airline around. 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:45.120 The world went through a similar hit. 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:47.480 You know, we have a look in at Air New Zealand, 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.640 probably one of the most trusted brands in New Zealand. 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.400 It's now in the doldrums there. British airways up in 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:58.960 Europe as COVID caused all of these problems with airlines 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:03.640 delivering reliable servers, with airlines having flight credit issues, with 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:07.559 airlines having to make a lot of people redundant, and 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.280 that does hit the brand. But what I've no doubt 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:15.199 about is because the quantest's financial success, because it's quant 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.920 ability now to have teams like Project Sunrise Comic, which 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.960 is initiative that we did, or quantests that have the 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.480 biggest fleet order and its history on its way, new 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:27.640 aircraft arriving every other month. Because I put in the 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:30.640 biggest order of two hundred and ninety nine aircraft ever 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:34.320 in Australian history, that brand will improve back to where 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:38.680 it was. And I have absolute regret that we took 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.200 that hit in COVID. I wish I had gotten out 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.240 before COVID because there would have been all a high 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:45.880 and had no COVID hit us for six. But I 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.280 hit a lot of airlines for six and that was 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:49.520 one of my biggest regrets. 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.080 You win the book by describing the journey from the 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.000 soup kitchens of Dublin to the Quantity boardroom. When you 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.480 look back, now, what's your biggest regret and what are 0:14:58.480 --> 0:14:59.360 you most proud of? 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:04.000 I think I think the biggest regret probably goes back 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.760 to twenty twenty and not having that foresight to see 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.120 that maybe COVID could be could come out with it 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:12.320 better and we didn't have to make the tough decisions 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:16.200 we did back there. But I'm most proud of making 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:18.560 sure that Quotus came through COVID. You know, I could 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:21.040 be here, I'm apologizing for a lot that went wrong. 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.360 I could be apologizing here of like forty other airlines, 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.320 like Virgin Bonds and Wrecks, for them going bankrupt, the 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.280 Quantas going bankrupt. And it wasn't a certainty at the 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.560 start of COVID that we were going to come true 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:39.440 with but thankfully we did, and thanksfully Quantus is really 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.200 strong today. I can rebuild its brand because I can 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:46.440 rebuild its fleet, I can invest in its future, can 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:48.720 invest in projects on rise because we did take the 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:50.360 tough decisions during COVID. 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:53.400 And finally, Allen, You're right that coming out to your 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.920 father was both the worst and best moment of your life. 0:15:57.560 --> 0:15:59.840 How did that experience shape your decision to make Corners 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.440 a prominent voice for marriage equality. 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:06.560 Well, well, first it was I'd say in the book. 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.640 I came out three times to my family, and I 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:11.600 explained in detail to how that occurred. 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.160 I had a neighbor that was kicked out as a teenager. 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.280 I was really worried the same thing could happen to me, 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.040 and I would have had a very different. 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:22.240 Life if that had to happened. 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:25.640 It's one of the reasons why I'm a big sponsor 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.320 of the Pinnacle Foundation and a patriot of it, because 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:30.480 still today young gay kids are kicked down a hot 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.280 that gives the scholarships to let them have the education 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.280 I was lucky to have thanks to my accepting pardons. 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.400 I do think I was a big advocate on a 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:43.120 lot of issues. I think it's the role of CEOs 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:49.440 to be advocates. Airlines businesses are part of society. Your customers, 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:53.040 your employees, and your shareholders want you to speak up 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:56.200 on these things. In fact, you're in the Margin Equality campaign. 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:58.880 I tell the story how one of our larger shareholders 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.760 was telling me you're not doing enough and there is 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:03.960 While it's the right moral thing to do on some 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.480 of these cases, it's the right business thing to do 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:12.240 because minority groups the LGBTI community are five times more 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:13.440 likely to travel with. 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:15.679 You if they think you represent them. 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:19.360 You're likely to get more employees from diverse backgrounds if 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:22.760 they think you represent them, and so on that basis, 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.320 I was very proud of the work we did for Indigenous, 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:30.520 for gender rights and for LGBT rights. We did a 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:32.600 lot in a lot of different areas, and we did 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:33.680 it for the right reasons. 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:39.520 Oh Joyce, thank you so much for your time. 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:41.720 Thanks Daniel, appreciate your time. 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.840 Also in the news, the Prime ministers at odds with 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.080 his own party, are we pushed to allow us trying 0:17:56.119 --> 0:18:00.520 to access the vultary assisted dying by telehealth? Alardy backed 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.720 the move at last week's Labor conference, but Anthony Albinizi 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.320 says while he's in favor of voluntary euthanasia, he's concerned 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:11.600 that overturning the band could undermine the system. And Queensland 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:15.080 Police are investigating after an innocent bystander was accidentally hit 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:17.640 by a stray bullet while standing near her front door 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.359 and cans on Saturday. The fifty year old woman was 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:22.520 shot in the leg when officers opened fire on a 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:26.080 man allegedly armed with knives. She's now in a stable condition. 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.680 I'm Daniel James. Thanks for listening to seven AM. We'll 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:30.360 be back tomorrow.