Speaker 1: Before we begin, a quick content note. Today's episode includes
Speaker 1: discussion of mental health and suicide. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 1: I have just had one of those weeks from hell,
Speaker 1: and it's not that one particular thing has happened. It's
Speaker 1: just almost a bit like death by a thousand paper cuts.
Speaker 1: My hubby is away, I got a concern call from
Speaker 1: the school teacher yesterday about one of my kids who
Speaker 1: seems very distant and distracted in class. My other daughter
Speaker 1: is gutted because she didn't make the school play. I've
Speaker 1: had a week of lots of media engagements, which is
Speaker 1: a lot of cognitive load, and I have a lot
Speaker 1: of in a talk when I do a lot of
Speaker 1: media engagements about confidence, self worth, etc. And then of
Speaker 1: course when I'm in the city all day, I fall
Speaker 1: really behind on my other work, and then I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm letting people down. On top of that, I
Speaker 1: don't think I've had more than six hours sleep for
Speaker 1: the last seven to ten nights, so yes, of course,
Speaker 1: Perry menopause symptoms start to dial up. The night sweats,
Speaker 1: the poor sleep. I actually felt the other night almost
Speaker 1: like I was close to a panic attack, and then
Speaker 1: I had this moment of meals like, nothing is that wrong.
Speaker 1: You don't have any big trauma or any massive grief
Speaker 1: right now. You've got four beautiful kids, You've got a
Speaker 1: husband that loves you. Like, why are you struggling so much?
Speaker 1: I just thought to myself, adulting is so so hard.
Speaker 1: And I don't know about you, but this particular stage
Speaker 1: of life I feel like is almost like being in
Speaker 1: a vice. This is healthy her with Amelia Phillips Perry menopause.
Speaker 1: That three to ten year time frame before we reach
Speaker 1: menopause can be likened to a storm season. You see,
Speaker 1: just like a storm, there are many hormonal weather patterns
Speaker 1: that can destabilize us. You know, you can cause these
Speaker 1: unpredictable shifts and in some cases can cause significant damage
Speaker 1: like a storm, to our body and also our mind.
Speaker 1: But it's not just our hormones that are impacting us
Speaker 1: during this storm season. Midlife like, what an interesting time.
Speaker 1: It's so full of these other destabilizing challenges, from raising kids,
Speaker 1: to looking after aging parents, to break ups, breakdowns, grief, trauma,
Speaker 1: sometimes old trauma bubbling back up, and then finally looking
Speaker 1: at redefining this next chapter of our life. It's no
Speaker 1: wonder so many of us find this period one of
Speaker 1: the toughest ones to endure, So for today's episode, I
Speaker 1: really wanted to reach out and speak to someone who
Speaker 1: has navigated their own storm season of me life. They've
Speaker 1: been through some very tough lows, but also some amazing
Speaker 1: highs as well, and they've come out the other side
Speaker 1: ready to share some expertise and some wisdom with the
Speaker 1: rest of us. To cue the incredible Lisa Curry. Lisa
Speaker 1: is one of Australia's most accomplished athletes and business woman.
Speaker 1: She's a three time Olympian, Commonwealth Games gold medalist and
Speaker 1: best selling author. But interestingly, her greatest lessons, as we're
Speaker 1: about to find out, haven't come necessarily from the podium.
Speaker 1: They've come from navigating profound personal loss, public scrutiny, business reinvention,
Speaker 1: and the very real hormonal and emotional shifts of midlife.
Speaker 1: Lisa is such a great guide for us through this
Speaker 1: perimenopause and menopause period as she has fully immersed herself
Speaker 1: in this world of midlife health. She's founded the really
Speaker 1: successful health supplement and lifestyle company, Happy Healthy You. She's
Speaker 1: published a book. By the same time, She's published many books,
Speaker 1: but this particular book, Happy Healthy You, is all about
Speaker 1: balancing hormones through perry and menopause. And she has become
Speaker 1: such a powerful voice for resilience and for mental health advocacy.
Speaker 1: She understands discipline, she understands reinvention, she understands grief. A
Speaker 1: woman who has weathered storms, rebuilt and found strength in
Speaker 1: the process. Lisa, thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2: So I'm exhausted listening to you. I feel you so much.
Speaker 2: I mean, you've got four kids. Yeah, you know, you're
Speaker 2: juggling a lot, and like you said, so many women
Speaker 2: who are out there feeling exactly the same. And one
Speaker 2: thing that other people don't see is I don't see
Speaker 2: those days. And I don't know if you've done this,
Speaker 2: but I know I have where you just curl up
Speaker 2: in a ball in the corner of the kitchen and cry. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and no one sees that. No, you know, And I
Speaker 2: know I have actually said to people and les you
Speaker 2: have felt that. You don't understand that because it's such
Speaker 2: an overwhelming sense of oh my god, you know what
Speaker 2: is wrong with me? So you can't even see the
Speaker 2: light at the end of the tunnel, you know, it's
Speaker 2: a really hard place to be.
Speaker 1: It really really is, and it's actually also paralyzing. So
Speaker 1: right at a time when actually what you need is
Speaker 1: momentum and energy and positivity, you're feeling like you're shrinking
Speaker 1: and becoming paralyzed. And so it almost feels like this
Speaker 1: downward spiral. And I am not the only one that
Speaker 1: feels this. I have women reaching out to me all
Speaker 1: the time, and people look to me and go, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, such a high achiever and you've got the
Speaker 1: four kids and you're doing this and you're doing that.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, well you should have seen me
Speaker 1: yesterday afternoon, like you say, on the fetal position, crying
Speaker 1: for no particular reason.
Speaker 2: If you saw my Instagram post a couple of days ago,
Speaker 2: it was just a picture of wonder woman lying on
Speaker 2: the ground. Yeah, and all it was mood, you know,
Speaker 2: And that was my day. I just couldn't. People expect
Speaker 2: you to be up all the time. They expect you
Speaker 2: to be strong all the time because of their perception
Speaker 2: of you or what they know of you or see
Speaker 2: tiny snippets of you. But behind closed doors, no one
Speaker 2: sees that. And yeah, there are days when you're you
Speaker 2: completely exhausted and you don't have anything for anyone else,
Speaker 2: let alone yourself.
Speaker 1: But I'd love to start with your perimenopause and menopause experience.
Speaker 1: Can you I know you're out the other side now,
Speaker 1: so congratulations.
Speaker 2: Did you get a medal or no party? No?
Speaker 1: Yeah, But now that you are out of the other side,
Speaker 1: can you talk us through your experience? What were the
Speaker 1: symptoms you experienced. I can imagine being so fit and healthy.
Speaker 1: Everyone's expectations and maybe even yours, was that, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to sail through this. Was it like that?
Speaker 2: It was a little bit because I was still training,
Speaker 2: so I really had a lot of confidence and I
Speaker 2: had a lot of goal driven activities to do every
Speaker 2: single day. I was really good with my time management.
Speaker 2: I was really good with recovery, because you have to
Speaker 2: be when you're an athlete. And I felt like I
Speaker 2: did okay for a while until I wasn't. But the
Speaker 2: first symptom that I had was extreme fatigue, like just
Speaker 2: enormous amounts of fatigue. But I put it down to
Speaker 2: all the training that I was doing, because not only
Speaker 2: did I swim for twenty three years, culminating in three Olympics,
Speaker 2: the last one as a mum with two little girls
Speaker 2: at home. But I went into another sport for another
Speaker 2: twenty years, So I just flogged myself for another twenty years.
Speaker 2: But it was that passion and that purpose that I
Speaker 2: had turning up and coaching my group of forty to
Speaker 2: fifty women that gave me my energy. I really drew
Speaker 2: a lot of energy from the people that I was
Speaker 2: around at the time. But there were days when, you know,
Speaker 2: I was exhausted, and there were days, I know my
Speaker 2: ex husband would say, my god, you were a cranky, irritable, irrational, moody, sweaty,
Speaker 2: teary bitch, which I was every fifth day before a period.
Speaker 2: But I didn't know at the time.
Speaker 1: I just hadn't connected the two idea that.
Speaker 2: I hadn't seen the pattern. I hadn't seen that it
Speaker 2: was happening every month because I didn't do period trackers
Speaker 2: or mood trackers or anything like that back in the day.
Speaker 2: You just you were how you were because no one
Speaker 2: was talking about it. No one was no And I
Speaker 2: remember my husband looking at me one day and I thought,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I can see that he thinks I'm
Speaker 2: the devil. And I seriously thought that he could see
Speaker 2: that in me. But I wasn't like that. I was
Speaker 2: a pretty easy going, gold driven, happy go lucky person.
Speaker 1: Really, did that make you look back at yourself with
Speaker 1: shame or guilt? Like, were you also surprised where you
Speaker 1: were like these rage words coming out of my mouth?
Speaker 1: Or did you also see this is not who I am?
Speaker 1: I having those moments.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I saw it, and he saw it because that
Speaker 2: wasn't me. And now I know it was my hormones.
Speaker 2: And you don't want to blame everything on your hormones.
Speaker 2: But your body is going through so many different changes
Speaker 2: in every stage of life. And you know, if I
Speaker 2: can jump to the end of this conversation, you know
Speaker 2: what I would say is once you understand that it's
Speaker 2: a natural transition, that it's biology, it's your body doing
Speaker 2: what it's supposed to be doing at that time in life.
Speaker 2: Once you understand that, then you can take a deep
Speaker 2: breath and go, oh, okay, now I know what my
Speaker 2: body's doing. But at that time I had no idea,
Speaker 2: and I went I went to the doctor. I told
Speaker 2: him all my symptoms, and I guess he thought he
Speaker 2: was being pretty funny, but he wrote me out a
Speaker 2: script for a maid and a mass arch.
Speaker 1: So serious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they didn't know it. I mean, we didn't
Speaker 2: even talk about hairy menopause back in those days. I
Speaker 2: actually remember my mum coming home. She used to work
Speaker 2: at a doctor surgery, and she'd come home and say, oh, that,
Speaker 2: you know, work made of mind. She's such a bit,
Speaker 2: you know, she's this and she's that, and she's oh
Speaker 2: you know, And I remember thinking, oh, she must be
Speaker 2: an awful person. But she was probably menopause, all right.
Speaker 2: And if you can, if you can imagine having six
Speaker 2: or eight ladies working in the same work area and
Speaker 2: all going through their symptoms at different times, and not
Speaker 2: knowing and not understanding and not having empathy for each other,
Speaker 2: you can imagine the friction that it could cause. But
Speaker 2: I didn't know what it was, and I didn't have
Speaker 2: a name for it. The doctor didn't have a name
Speaker 2: for it.
Speaker 1: So can I just say, like, you're young, we're not talking.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't have this ancient person sitting here
Speaker 1: going you're back in my day. We are talking. This
Speaker 1: is not very long ago.
Speaker 2: This is thirty years ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But it's crazy to think that in our generation
Speaker 1: and this generation we still have you know, at this stage,
Speaker 1: I mean I heard the word perimenopause for the first
Speaker 1: time I think six or seven years ago, and you
Speaker 1: think of these huge generations of women that have come
Speaker 1: before us that not only didn't have a name for it,
Speaker 1: but also it was hushed and it was something not
Speaker 1: to be spoken about, and you just were it up
Speaker 1: with it to change. Yeah, you didn't go through menopause
Speaker 1: thirty years ago. No perimenopause just kick you started. You're
Speaker 1: talking about the beginning of your perimenopause.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So the media lump everything under one name.
Speaker 2: They call everything menopause, and you have to understand that
Speaker 2: there's years of transitions. So symptoms start to creep in
Speaker 2: early and a thirty three year old is not going
Speaker 2: to accept that they are in perimenopause. They certainly don't
Speaker 2: want to think about that they're heading towards menopause because
Speaker 2: they just think, no, I'm only thirty three, there's nothing.
Speaker 2: You know, you're in the prime of your life. But
Speaker 2: if you divide life up into three sections, you got
Speaker 2: zero to thirty, thirty to sixty, sixty to ninety. So sorry, ladies,
Speaker 2: but between thirty and six we can call that midlife. So
Speaker 2: what happens in that stage is you know you're going
Speaker 2: to go through these natural transitions. Some people breeze through it,
Speaker 2: some people don't. Some people, you know, have a little
Speaker 2: bit of everything, which was I think where I was.
Speaker 2: So I didn't. I didn't have severe symptoms, although you
Speaker 2: could my husband could ex husband could argue that, I
Speaker 2: guess and I certainly didn't breeze through it. But the
Speaker 2: biggest change that happened for me is that I met
Speaker 2: my now business partner. I met him in nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: six and random meeting with these guys that I was
Speaker 2: telling them my symptoms. Why do you do that? I
Speaker 2: didn't even know them when I was telling them my symptoms.
Speaker 2: Love it, but they knew, they.
Speaker 1: Knew Universe had something in mind to you.
Speaker 2: So they knew Jeff. They said, you need to talk
Speaker 2: to this guy. And that was back in nineteen ninety six,
Speaker 2: and he actually diagnosed my daughter Jamie with chemical imbalance
Speaker 2: when she was fifteen. So fast forward to now. My
Speaker 2: now business partner's been a hormonal specialist for a long time,
Speaker 2: but I had no idea. So I met him and
Speaker 2: once he put a name to it, and back then
Speaker 2: it was hormonal imbalance. I started to dig deeper into
Speaker 2: what it was, what caused it, what can help, and
Speaker 2: he really took me through all a nutritional side of it.
Speaker 2: And here we are today with a beautiful business that
Speaker 2: helps millions of ladies.
Speaker 1: Oh and it's so wonderful. And I did your online
Speaker 1: comprehensive assessment and I could just tell by the questions
Speaker 1: that were asked, Oh, yeah, these guys know what they're doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we do, and what they're talking about. It's funny
Speaker 2: now because people saying, oh, we're just starting to talk
Speaker 2: about it, well, you know, we've been talking about it
Speaker 2: for about twelve years. And because we've had over a
Speaker 2: million and a half ladies download the assessment, we have
Speaker 2: a lot of data. Wow, a million and a half Yeah, lady,
Speaker 2: that's more than twenty percent of the population who actually
Speaker 2: are in perimenopause and menopause at the moment. So we
Speaker 2: know what we're talking about. We absolutely do. And we
Speaker 2: have a team of practitioners that talk to our ladies
Speaker 2: every single day. We have one group that's got over
Speaker 2: two hundred and three thousand women in one group, so
Speaker 2: we're chatting to them every day, so we know our stuff.
Speaker 1: So if you could go back to yourself, to Lisa
Speaker 1: thirty twenty years ago in peak perimenopause, knowing what you
Speaker 1: know now, what are a couple of strategies that you
Speaker 1: would give her or words of wisdom that you would
Speaker 1: give her considering what you know now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question because I was probably pretty
Speaker 2: lucky because because of my sport, I didn't even get
Speaker 2: a period until I was eighteen, So I was a
Speaker 2: really late starter. Wow. And I was someone who never
Speaker 2: really got heavy periods at all, and I was able
Speaker 2: to maintain a lean body because of my training, So
Speaker 2: I trained through.
Speaker 1: So you were pulling a lot of the lifestyle leavers
Speaker 1: that many of us have yet to pull. So I
Speaker 1: guess that's a good thing. During that period, your body
Speaker 1: composition was right, because we know that if you are
Speaker 1: carrying a lot of excess body fat, particularly around the middle,
Speaker 1: that can you know, be very pro inflammatory, can drive
Speaker 1: up you know, have estrogen dominance in some people. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you're pulling those leaders, but you did say that
Speaker 1: you were getting Yours was probably more around the mood
Speaker 1: and the rage, and yeah, how learning thinking about what
Speaker 1: you have learned going back, what would what advice would
Speaker 1: you give to help smooth out those emotional bumps and
Speaker 1: the mood for myself. Yeah, for anyone listening who's going, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm right in that emotional role.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean there's a very simple answer to that,
Speaker 2: to take happy hormones. I mean that it changed my life,
Speaker 2: saved my life, it saved my sanity. And you know,
Speaker 2: it doesn't work for everybody, but for the majority of
Speaker 2: people it does. But Jeff's very good at formulating these supplements.
Speaker 2: So I put my trust in him. Like I've only
Speaker 2: had probably three coaches in my life, and he became
Speaker 2: my life coach. Oh, because your coach is there for
Speaker 2: a reason. And it's like back in the day, if
Speaker 2: I and I did I want to go to the Olympics.
Speaker 2: The Olympics are in ten or fifteen years. You don't
Speaker 2: just go. There's so much planning. You have to surround
Speaker 2: yourself with the right people. You have to do the
Speaker 2: right things every single day. You have to action everything
Speaker 2: to give yourself the opportunity to be able to go.
Speaker 2: And it's the same with your health as well. I mean,
Speaker 2: if you surround yourself with the right information, the right people.
Speaker 2: You make a plan, you have a daily routine, you
Speaker 2: take action. You can help get yourself to where you
Speaker 2: want to go. But if you think you can just
Speaker 2: wing it, or you can, but it might be like
Speaker 2: a lifetime of neglect, and accumulated neglect can put you
Speaker 2: in a very bad place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's why I like to liken it to
Speaker 1: a storm season, because I think about a really seasoned
Speaker 1: sailor who's out on beautiful, calm ocean sailing away and
Speaker 1: then they get word that there's a storm on the horizon.
Speaker 1: They're not just going to sit there and do nothing.
Speaker 1: They're going to prepare themselves. They in a band, down
Speaker 1: the hatches, do whatever so that when the storm arrives,
Speaker 1: i e. The storm of perimenopause and midlife, you can,
Speaker 1: you know, navigate that storm as best you can because
Speaker 1: you're all prepared for it, and then hopefully when you
Speaker 1: come out the other side, you're less battered and bruised.
Speaker 1: That's right, the master stayed up, the cupboard doors haven't open,
Speaker 1: and everything's billed out. I hear you say that. And
Speaker 1: even if your preparation is being well informed, a little
Speaker 1: bit like what you said at the start when you
Speaker 1: said I didn't link my moods to my cycle, Like,
Speaker 1: what a game change that would have been.
Speaker 2: Oh, I know, totally, and it could have saved my marriage.
Speaker 2: I think that was I.
Speaker 1: Was literally going to ask you, do you think your
Speaker 1: breakup with your partner? How much do you think perimenopause
Speaker 1: played into that?
Speaker 2: Sadly? Probably a lot?
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I've actually written about that in my memoir
Speaker 2: and it was probably the hardest chapter I had to
Speaker 2: write because we're still really good friends and you got
Speaker 2: kids together. Yeah. Yeah, but at the time, you know,
Speaker 2: just things start to annoy the crap bound of you.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh my god, can't you just And it's like,
Speaker 2: I know, there are days when you just think, I
Speaker 2: don't even know why I'm married. I don't even know
Speaker 2: why you exist. I don't know why I exist. I
Speaker 2: don't even know why all this stuff happens. Why is
Speaker 2: everything so hard? You know? And that's what perimanton paus
Speaker 2: and menopause does to your brain cells. It's just everything
Speaker 2: gets cluttered and confused and all over the shop, to
Speaker 2: the point where you know, you don't even know if
Speaker 2: your Arthur or Martha. That sounds like such my thing,
Speaker 2: my mum would say after but you know, you lose yourself,
Speaker 2: you lose your confidence, you lose your relationship, you lose
Speaker 2: your love for the person that you you know that
Speaker 2: you wanted to be in love with for the rest
Speaker 2: of your life. And you know it's kind of not fair.
Speaker 2: But I talk about the journey of a female, honoring
Speaker 2: the female journey and how extraordinary females are, and when
Speaker 2: you look at it from that outside perspective, every woman
Speaker 2: is extraordinary. They really are. Yes, I mean they can
Speaker 2: make a human being and then they care for that
Speaker 2: human being, and then four human beings, and then a
Speaker 2: husband and a job and everything else that they carry,
Speaker 2: and they leave themselves last. They have this invisible load
Speaker 2: that's just drowning them every single day, but they're still
Speaker 2: get up and keep going. And that resilience in every
Speaker 2: single woman is just incredible. And I want women to
Speaker 2: know that they are extraordinary. But like in athletics, you
Speaker 2: have to have recovery. We can't make the Olympic final.
Speaker 2: If we keep pushing, keep pushing, keep pushing, you won't
Speaker 2: make it. You're overwhelmed, overdone, overtired, burnt out. You won't
Speaker 2: make that Olympic final. So part of our training was
Speaker 2: always recovery, mornings off, having a day off every now
Speaker 2: and again. And I know, I know how hard it is.
Speaker 2: My daughter has three little boys, and I know how
Speaker 2: exhausted she is. And she said, Mum, just trying to
Speaker 2: get twenty minutes to myself. You know, just can't do it.
Speaker 1: You are so right. And I feel like in this
Speaker 1: storm season where we've got these hormonal shifts, but we
Speaker 1: also have this incredible pressure and the emotional load that
Speaker 1: we carry as well. And I've heard this saying I
Speaker 1: feel like I am holding up the sky and that's
Speaker 1: kind of to my story at the start. That's how
Speaker 1: I feel a lot of the time, and how women
Speaker 1: that I speak to peel if I even let go
Speaker 1: for a second, the sky's going to fall in. You know,
Speaker 1: everything's going to collapse around me. And it's this pressure
Speaker 1: that we feel. Was that your experience as well? And
Speaker 1: I think back to you know, your incredible life where
Speaker 1: you were in the media, you were kicking all these
Speaker 1: amazing goals, you're doing, You're going through all of this publicly,
Speaker 1: you're divorce in the papers, etc. Did you have that
Speaker 1: same overwhelming feeling of holding up the sky at that time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I liken that too. Juggling balls had so many
Speaker 2: balls in the air, and you just get really good
Speaker 2: at juggling ten balls and then someone else throws one
Speaker 2: in it's eleven, and then twelve, and it's twenty and
Speaker 2: you drop a ball, and you know, all of.
Speaker 1: A sudden, thing collapses.
Speaker 2: It collapses, and I think at some point you've got
Speaker 2: to just put them all down, put all the balls down,
Speaker 2: and just go which ones do I really need to
Speaker 2: juggle for this day, or for this week or for
Speaker 2: this month? Are there things that can be left? But
Speaker 2: you know, I'm the sort of person that loves a
Speaker 2: clean house. I love my kitchen being tidy before I
Speaker 2: start cooking. I don't like, you know, clothes piling up
Speaker 2: and all that sort of thing. So you know, I
Speaker 2: just sit the babies on the bench and fold the
Speaker 2: clothes with them more. You know, I just made it
Speaker 2: work for me, because I think you just have to
Speaker 2: find ways to make it work, however that might be.
Speaker 2: And you know, if you've got a husband, you really
Speaker 2: need to sit down and say, hey, I'm exhausted, and
Speaker 2: you know what you shouldn't have to ask how they
Speaker 2: shouldn't have to ask anything. Finally you do.
Speaker 1: I had Shelley Horton on recently talking about her perimenopause
Speaker 1: experience and she had one of those breakdown moments that
Speaker 1: she was explaining in the podcast, and her husband's response
Speaker 1: was so beautiful, and as she was explaining it, I
Speaker 1: thought a lot of listeners will be thinking, my husband
Speaker 1: wouldn't react like that in that he came up to
Speaker 1: her kind of scooped her up and said, you know,
Speaker 1: this is not you. We need to go together, Let's
Speaker 1: go to the doctor. This is not the person I married,
Speaker 1: where so many other husbands would be like, how dare
Speaker 1: you yell at me? And you know and create that loggerheads.
Speaker 1: And I just thought to all the partners out there
Speaker 1: that you know, scratching their heads, going what's going on
Speaker 1: with my wife? Like, choose compassion, and maybe we need
Speaker 1: to say to our husbands, listen, I'm in perimenopause, Please
Speaker 1: choose compassion when I'm like this, because it's not like
Speaker 1: I'm choosing to be like this.
Speaker 2: You just want to feel safe. You don't want to
Speaker 2: be judged. You just want to feel safe.
Speaker 1: Because trust me, you're judging yourself partially enough.
Speaker 2: I know, yeah, I think it's really important that families
Speaker 2: have these conversations around the dinner table. And I know
Speaker 2: my son, he used to look at me and roll
Speaker 2: his eyes and go, oh, mom, the girls are hormoneal
Speaker 2: I'm just going to go to my room. So he
Speaker 2: got it, and he does get it because I've had
Speaker 2: plenty of conversations with him about hormones and emotions and
Speaker 2: what happened. So he's really across it. He's such a
Speaker 2: good human being, it's unbelievable. So he's got very lucky Beyonce. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Actually, so hopefully she'll thank you one day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, you've got to have those conversations
Speaker 2: with your husbands and when they understand then yes, they
Speaker 2: can scoop you up and make you feel safe.
Speaker 1: Shoes compassion. Well, I want not also chat to you
Speaker 1: about another element, which is worry and grief, you know,
Speaker 1: which so many of us experience. And your beautiful daughter,
Speaker 1: Jamie had her long battle with mental health challenges, eating
Speaker 1: disorders and very tragically lost her life in twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: and I'm just so so sorry for you thinking back
Speaker 1: to those years when she was struggling. How were you
Speaker 1: able to look after yourself during that worrying time? Sorry, oh, darling,
Speaker 1: I wish I could get up of the mic to
Speaker 1: give you a big I'm giving you a hard.
Speaker 2: Studio. Plus my mom pass away four years today, so
Speaker 2: oh honey, that's all happened.
Speaker 1: What was your mum's name, pap sending that a beautiful
Speaker 1: message right now of love, Pat.
Speaker 2: I know you're with us, so I think, I guess
Speaker 2: probably when I was in right in the middle of
Speaker 2: all my symptoms and working and family. Jamie was about
Speaker 2: fifteen then. So it was for the next eighteen years
Speaker 2: that we put up, not put up with the next
Speaker 2: eighteen years where we had to find the way that
Speaker 2: we could all keep moving forward as a family, keep
Speaker 2: turning up for work, keep trying, like trying to stay positive,
Speaker 2: trying to stay strong for the other kids with all
Speaker 2: the ups and downs and hospital visits, and you know,
Speaker 2: there was a lot of screaming and misunderstanding and judgment
Speaker 2: and you have no idea what I'm going through. And
Speaker 2: as money we tried, yeah, you know, and the medical
Speaker 2: system I feel really let us down. As good as
Speaker 2: they were and as great as they looked after her,
Speaker 2: they didn't have any answers, and the amount of times
Speaker 2: that you know, they sent her home, she was really
Speaker 2: really unwell and we couldn't save her. And so I
Speaker 2: was going through that and a marriage breakdown and menopause
Speaker 2: all at once.
Speaker 1: How are you sitting here right now?
Speaker 2: I don't know, I ask myself that, But a less
Speaker 2: strong person may not be here. You know, my mental
Speaker 2: strength has been so strong for so many years because
Speaker 2: of my sport.
Speaker 1: That let's break that down. What does that actually mean?
Speaker 1: Like if you take yourself back to one of those
Speaker 1: days where you've just had a horrible you know, hospitals
Speaker 1: let you down, You feel like you just have nowhere
Speaker 1: to turn. What made you get up the next day?
Speaker 2: Like? What was?
Speaker 1: What are you saying to yourself in your head that
Speaker 1: makes you mentally stronger than someone else?
Speaker 2: It's survival, I mean you have to You have children,
Speaker 2: you have a family, you have a job. It's survival.
Speaker 2: You have to keep going. You don't have a choice,
Speaker 2: Well you do have a choice, but you you keep
Speaker 2: going for the greater good. You know, you have other children,
Speaker 2: you have responsibilities, and it's just one more day. And
Speaker 2: I remember a quote, a story that Liesel Jones was
Speaker 2: talking about, and she was saying it was something like
Speaker 2: just another day. I need to keep going, just for
Speaker 2: another day. And you do, because you know every day
Speaker 2: was trying to say about child. Yeah, try and find
Speaker 2: ways to keep her going until we couldn't.
Speaker 1: And what was that like when you can't? I mean
Speaker 1: she was struggling for how many years?
Speaker 2: Eighteen years?
Speaker 1: Eighteen years? You were in this period of intense.
Speaker 2: Never knowing what was going to happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then when she did pass in twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: how have you managed that grief through the last six years.
Speaker 2: Well, it's taken me nearly all this time to actually
Speaker 2: be able to see the light. Yeah. You know, usually
Speaker 2: I usually I can talk about it if I want
Speaker 2: to bring it up, and when I hear someone else
Speaker 2: talk about it, it's just like a dagger to the heart. No,
Speaker 2: I'm being honest with you, because you know people, you
Speaker 2: know I talk about Jamie all the time. I do.
Speaker 2: And you know, when I'm on my phone and your
Speaker 2: memory comes up and all the.
Speaker 1: Most photos so beautifully in your memoir, it was I
Speaker 1: was just in tears.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know I have she sent me every
Speaker 2: photo we had this thing going where she'd send me
Speaker 2: a photo of a little flower growing out of the concrete,
Speaker 2: or she'd send me a beautiful door or her breakfast,
Speaker 2: or herself covered in bruises. I mean, I've got photos
Speaker 2: on my phone where a couple of times I've looked
Speaker 2: at them and I'm thinking, hang on a minute, what
Speaker 2: happened here, because to me, it looks like someone has
Speaker 2: bashed her. And I'm not quite one hundred percent sure
Speaker 2: that that didn't happen because of the photos on my phone,
Speaker 2: because at the time I was like, she.
Speaker 1: Say, I bumped into the wall or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I bumped in or I fell over, and you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes they're protecting somebody, and I knew some of the
Speaker 2: really dodgy people that were around her. And now when
Speaker 2: I look at the photos, I think, she you don't
Speaker 2: get a black eye from.
Speaker 1: From bumping into something like that, not a black ey
Speaker 1: like them, No.
Speaker 2: I've seen. So there's been times when I'm still trying
Speaker 2: to understand reconcile yeah, and it's really it's really hard.
Speaker 2: And then you know, going through menopause at the same time,
Speaker 2: and then my mom passed away, it was just like,
Speaker 2: is there anything else? I can have just give it
Speaker 2: to me just you know, then.
Speaker 1: What lessons are you trying to teach me? Haven't I learned?
Speaker 1: And lessons I know?
Speaker 2: And so I think, once again, because I'm very strong
Speaker 2: in the mind because of my swimming, every loss is
Speaker 2: a lesson of some sort, and how can you apply
Speaker 2: that to your life? And so that's what I've done.
Speaker 2: I've really tried hard to work out why I'm feeling
Speaker 2: the way that I'm feeling, what does it mean, Where's
Speaker 2: it come from, how can I pass it on to
Speaker 2: other people in a more positive way, how can I
Speaker 2: help people get through it? And the amount of people
Speaker 2: that have contacted me since, you know, they have said
Speaker 2: to me that every time they hear me speak or
Speaker 2: see something, it's really helped them get through that next day.
Speaker 2: And that's nice, but it makes me sad too, you
Speaker 2: know that they're struggling. They're struggling, and I don't like
Speaker 2: seeing people struggle. I just, you know, it makes me
Speaker 2: sad that they feel that way, because when you think
Speaker 2: about it, we're not here for a very long time
Speaker 2: on earth, you know, and one hundred years time, we're
Speaker 2: all gone, including our grandchildren, and no one gives a
Speaker 2: shit that we're gone. You know, they'll be her cars,
Speaker 2: will be scrap metal, they'll be living in our houses
Speaker 2: or knock them down. Who knows what the world's going
Speaker 2: to be like. And so we're only here for a
Speaker 2: short time. We've really got to try and think what
Speaker 2: sort of life do I want to live? And do
Speaker 2: what you want to do? You know, if you're in
Speaker 2: a job that you hate, leave it, go and do
Speaker 2: something else that you really want to do. If you've
Speaker 2: got people around you who you really don't like, who
Speaker 2: are toxic, get rid of them. Don't spend time with them.
Speaker 2: It's not worth it. You know, if you're with a
Speaker 2: man who's got red flags grown out of his head,
Speaker 2: like why are you with him?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Because life is too short, it's so fragile. And I
Speaker 2: think you learn all these things after someone you love
Speaker 2: has passed away and makes you really stop and think,
Speaker 2: you know, what is this life all about?
Speaker 1: And what sort of a life would Jamie want you
Speaker 1: to lead? Now? You know, would she want you grieving
Speaker 1: and you know and holding yourself back, or would she
Speaker 1: want you spreading the messages that you're spreading and helping
Speaker 1: so many people? And you know, doting in your other
Speaker 1: kids and your grandkids.
Speaker 2: She would totally want all of that. In fact, she
Speaker 2: said to me, Mum, when I get through this, I'm
Speaker 2: going to write a book so I can help other people.
Speaker 2: But yet, you know, we were at work for her.
Speaker 2: We were too We were too late. In fact, I
Speaker 2: had a friend of mine who is a freelance journalist,
Speaker 2: and I wanted her to come and sit with Jamie.
Speaker 2: But I just we left it too late, you know,
Speaker 2: because we never knew when the last day was going
Speaker 2: to be. And that's the hardest part. So for people
Speaker 2: who have family members who may not have long to go,
Speaker 2: or you just never know. I can't give you the answers.
Speaker 2: You know, lots of people have asked me, but I
Speaker 2: don't have the answers. If I did, i'd scream them
Speaker 2: out loud. But what I can say is just spend
Speaker 2: simple time with them. Hold their hands, stroke their head,
Speaker 2: go and have an ice cream in the park, sit
Speaker 2: under the sun, marvel at the birds and the trees
Speaker 2: and the ocean, and just do really simple things. You
Speaker 2: don't have to spend a lot of money. You don't
Speaker 2: have to spend any money. Just stroke their head and
Speaker 2: tell them that you love them, that they matter.
Speaker 1: Looking at your life now that you are postmenopause, you've
Speaker 1: got grandkids. Now, how many grand kids have you got?
Speaker 2: Three little boys, three little busy boys.
Speaker 1: And even though you have had this incredible life of
Speaker 1: high high as low lows and everything in between, how
Speaker 1: does life feel for you now? You know, generally? And
Speaker 1: I guess I'm wanting to offer some hope for you know,
Speaker 1: the moms that are right in the thick of this
Speaker 1: busy storm season of life. Yeah, I'm not saying, you know,
Speaker 1: you're out the other side. The storm never goes. But
Speaker 1: how is life for you now being in that state
Speaker 1: of I guess a position of I feel wisdom.
Speaker 2: And it feels good. Does it feels like it's freedom
Speaker 2: and adventure and the world, Well not today, it's not.
Speaker 2: The world is waiting for you. You know, go and
Speaker 2: do amazing things. Who you want to be, do what
Speaker 2: you want to do, go where you want to go,
Speaker 2: And that's the freedom that you have. You know. I
Speaker 2: just took my kids and their husband and fiance and
Speaker 2: the three little boys on a holiday skiing in Wislow.
Speaker 2: We went husky dog sledding in the Yukon.
Speaker 1: What a bucket list.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: My husband and I have decided that why wait until
Speaker 2: we die to pass on what we've got to our kids.
Speaker 2: Why don't we have memories with them now?
Speaker 1: Isn't it cold skiing spending the kid's inheritance?
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: My mother used to say, we're going skiing spending the
Speaker 1: kids inheritance, but I want to sell. She's like, I
Speaker 1: selfishly want to do it with you guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. And it was such a great holiday
Speaker 2: and one of the highlights was seeing my seven year
Speaker 2: old grandson. They said, oh, Flynn, do you want to
Speaker 2: ride the sleds today? And I said no, no, no, he's
Speaker 2: too small. He can't. I said it's minus thirty outside,
Speaker 2: he's going to get cold. And I looked at Morgan,
Speaker 2: his mum my daughter, and I said I don't think
Speaker 2: he should do it, and she said, Mom, I think
Speaker 2: he'll be fine. I went, okay, And you know what,
Speaker 2: he rocked at that little kid. He got on the sledged.
Speaker 2: He had four dogs. He put his hand up at
Speaker 2: one point because the dogs, little slipper fell off, so
Speaker 2: we had to stop and put the slipper back on.
Speaker 2: I know, but he stood there. He was waving to
Speaker 2: me while I was filming him. It was one of
Speaker 2: the best days of my life. Seven year old out
Speaker 2: there husky dog sledding four dogs. Mine is thirty. Yeah,
Speaker 2: how incredible and yet Greennie here is going, Oh, I
Speaker 2: don't think you should do it? You know, you know,
Speaker 2: he was great.
Speaker 1: I just love this idea of freedom, adventure and no
Speaker 1: matter how hard these periods we go through, we can
Speaker 1: come out the other side of menopause and we can
Speaker 1: really feel like we've still got a lot of living
Speaker 1: ahead of us.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's like I can liken it to Okay,
Speaker 2: So if you're a teenager, you've got a backpack on
Speaker 2: and that's you know, your stuff that you need for
Speaker 2: that period of your life. And then you go into
Speaker 2: your reproductive areas and you have a different sort of
Speaker 2: handbag and it's got things in it like tampon's lipstick, condom, whatever,
Speaker 2: your diary, you know, you charger. Then you get into perimenopause,
Speaker 2: into your midlife, and your bag starts getting heavier and
Speaker 2: it's got all the old packets of food in there.
Speaker 2: It's got the old diaries from last year, and it's
Speaker 2: got stress and overwhelm and gilt all this, this bag
Speaker 2: gets heavier and heavier and heavier, until one day you
Speaker 2: get to postmenopause and your bag's light again.
Speaker 1: Just like, get rid of this piece of shit, start again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we've got to look at the different handbags
Speaker 2: that we carry through our life and how they change
Speaker 2: in each stage of your life as well.
Speaker 1: Oh I love that.
Speaker 2: So I've got a travel bag now, and you know
Speaker 2: it's it's got tickets in it to go wherever I
Speaker 2: want to go.
Speaker 1: So it's your adventure bag.
Speaker 2: It is well.
Speaker 1: Finally, Lisa, for a woman listening who is in the
Speaker 1: thick of her storm season, struggling to hold up the sky,
Speaker 1: what would one last passing piece of advice be that
Speaker 1: you would have for her.
Speaker 2: That everything is going to be okay. To take a breath,
Speaker 2: that everything will be okay. You will come out bigger,
Speaker 2: stronger than you ever thought possible. What your body is
Speaker 2: going through is nature, it is biology. It is what
Speaker 2: you were built to do, and you are totally extraordinary
Speaker 2: that every single thing that you do matters.
Speaker 1: Lisa Curry, Thank you so much, Thank you so much.