WEBVTT - The Bolt Report | 8 October 0:00:15.950 --> 0:00:19.960 Tonight, campaigners fight the War Memorial's plan to honour the 0:00:20.020 --> 0:00:26.540 so-called Frontier Wars with Aborigines. Stop this fake history. Australian 0:00:26.579 --> 0:00:29.500 socialists say the violent protests in France have inspired them, 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:34.100 and they're now organising students here... to turn out in 0:00:34.220 --> 0:00:38.500 our streets as well. Plus, disturbing footage of pro-Palestine protesters 0:00:38.540 --> 0:00:43.269 yesterday and reports that Harry and Meghan Markle will apologise 0:00:43.310 --> 0:00:47.449 to the royal family. Yeah, right. And of course, there'll 0:00:47.490 --> 0:00:52.229 be Barnaby Joyce. But first, the Albanese government has looked 0:00:52.270 --> 0:00:57.810 completely rudderless this week. Very interesting. It's leadership gone missing. 0:00:58.630 --> 0:01:03.350 And boy, did that show today. Two examples. Treasurer Jim 0:01:03.390 --> 0:01:06.490 Chalmers has claimed credit for the new ban on shops 0:01:06.569 --> 0:01:10.240 passing on credit card surcharges, claiming this would help us 0:01:10.380 --> 0:01:15.110 with the cost of living, saying the Reserve Bank were 0:01:15.330 --> 0:01:20.120 then dead precisely as it asked. But where's the Treasurer 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:24.500 now to deal with the mess? Retailers aren't just screaming 0:01:24.540 --> 0:01:27.420 at being told to cover the costs themselves. They're also 0:01:27.500 --> 0:01:30.200 furious that the government tax office itself won't do that, 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:34.300 as it instead banned businesses from paying their taxes by 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.970 credit cards, which helped them with their cash flow, of course. 0:01:40.410 --> 0:01:45.250 And today, two prominent ministers had completely different lines about this. 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:50.400 while the Treasurer and the Prime Minister, meanwhile, said nothing. Like, 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:55.110 has anyone seen them? Assistant Minister Andrew Charlton, who's got 0:01:55.410 --> 0:02:00.150 ambitions to be Treasurer himself, backed the Tax Office against 0:02:00.230 --> 0:02:01.210 the business groups. 0:02:02.370 --> 0:02:06.530 Yes, the government supports the ATO's decision. The ATO has 0:02:06.610 --> 0:02:10.700 made that decision because of a principle of consistency between 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:13.160 the private sector and the public sector. 0:02:15.980 --> 0:02:21.650 But Housing Minister Clare O'Neill, equally ambitious, hoped the Tax 0:02:21.690 --> 0:02:23.250 Office would back off. 0:02:24.310 --> 0:02:27.090 The government does have some real concerns about what the 0:02:27.169 --> 0:02:30.850 ATO is proposing to do here. This is, you know, 0:02:30.910 --> 0:02:33.650 small businesses across the country really struggle to manage their 0:02:33.690 --> 0:02:36.010 cash flow. And I know that partly because I grew 0:02:36.070 --> 0:02:38.120 up in a household where both my mum and my 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:41.120 dad ran their own small business. Cash flow is the 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:44.519 biggest thing that's often of concern for small business. And 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:47.620 using credit cards to pay tax bill is a way 0:02:47.660 --> 0:02:50.280 that a lot of people are just managing that issue. 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.790 So we really want the ATO to go back and 0:02:52.889 --> 0:02:54.050 talk to business. 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:59.360 So which of these two ministers was speaking for the 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:05.910 Albanese government? Could Albanese perhaps tell us? Hello? I mean, 0:03:05.930 --> 0:03:08.310 but this division is a sign of a government that 0:03:08.389 --> 0:03:12.250 right now is headless. Who is deciding the government line? 0:03:13.570 --> 0:03:17.560 But there's a second example, today again, of the government 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.700 now acting like a headless chook, and it's a worse one. 0:03:21.419 --> 0:03:24.040 This is about Australia's future and how much of it 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:29.400 will be destroyed by this government's global warming mania, and 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:32.470 also by the state government's mania too. Last night I 0:03:32.500 --> 0:03:36.630 told you about the High Court's bizarre decision, a split decision, 0:03:37.190 --> 0:03:40.190 to stop a big extension of a coal mine in 0:03:40.230 --> 0:03:43.930 New South Wales at Mount Pleasant. Now three of the 0:03:43.990 --> 0:03:48.600 five judges, two of them coalition appointed, would you believe, 0:03:49.340 --> 0:03:52.890 said that This mine extension could not go ahead without 0:03:52.910 --> 0:03:56.100 the mine taking responsibility for the emissions caused by countries 0:03:56.180 --> 0:04:02.160 overseas burning their coal. And in fact, the mines actually 0:04:02.180 --> 0:04:06.840 had to do something about it. Now, excuse me. Why 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:10.380 is it our job to check or control how, say, 0:04:10.540 --> 0:04:15.630 China burns our coal? Now, this kind of nonsense is 0:04:16.010 --> 0:04:19.410 obviously going to encourage foreign customers to perhaps buy their 0:04:19.490 --> 0:04:23.350 coal somewhere else. And it's an attack on our second 0:04:23.370 --> 0:04:28.070 biggest export when we're already getting poorer. So it's serious. 0:04:28.550 --> 0:04:32.870 But here again, mixed messages from the Albanese government. We 0:04:32.910 --> 0:04:37.119 had this morning Industry Minister Tim Ayres playing down the decision, 0:04:37.210 --> 0:04:41.719 but also making clear he thought that making Australia responsible 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:45.620 for the emissions of foreign countries was unworkable, was a 0:04:45.820 --> 0:04:50.430 bad idea. But, of course, not that this government would 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:51.400 do anything about it. 0:04:52.470 --> 0:04:56.349 How the New South Wales system deals with this, of course, 0:04:56.910 --> 0:05:00.000 is a matter for New South Wales. This is not 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:04.290 a feature of the Commonwealth legislation, and I don't believe, 0:05:04.350 --> 0:05:06.270 I'm not an expert in this area, but I don't 0:05:06.330 --> 0:05:10.489 believe it's a feature of other states' regulatory systems either. 0:05:10.610 --> 0:05:16.850 With Australia's resources being exported overseas to our partner economies, 0:05:16.990 --> 0:05:22.610 it's their responsibility to manage their own industrial and electricity emissions. 0:05:22.670 --> 0:05:27.790 That's the way the system works. On the other hand, 0:05:27.890 --> 0:05:32.469 Resources Minister Madeleine King seems to suggest there was nothing 0:05:32.510 --> 0:05:33.310 wrong with all this. 0:05:34.270 --> 0:05:36.570 It's important that people have this say. The main thing 0:05:36.589 --> 0:05:39.190 for the people concerned, for the miners concerned, for the 0:05:39.270 --> 0:05:42.480 workers concerned, is that the New South Wales government backs 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:46.539 coal mining. The Albanese Labor government federally backs coal mining. 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.220 And what we will see is the state government, quite rightly, 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:52.839 in New South Wales, working with the operators of the 0:05:52.900 --> 0:05:55.559 Mount Pleasant mine to see how they move this forward. 0:05:57.670 --> 0:06:00.410 And again, from the Prime Minister and the Treasurer, we 0:06:00.470 --> 0:06:01.930 heard nothing. 0:06:03.250 --> 0:06:06.650 If they don't repeal it, Anthony Albanese should put in 0:06:06.670 --> 0:06:11.850 place overriding legislation to repeal it. But it's completely unacceptable 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:16.880 that a coal mine expansion or coal mine development not 0:06:16.940 --> 0:06:24.160 proceed because of legislation where there's a requirement to take 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:26.660 into consideration the customer's emissions. 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:30.520 Yeah, and there is a big problem here, even if 0:06:30.660 --> 0:06:34.140 Labor ministers are trying to play it down. Also, New 0:06:34.500 --> 0:06:37.080 South Wales Premier Chris Minns today was playing it down 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:41.700 big time, defending, actually defending his green laws, which the 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.260 High Court has now given real bite. 0:06:45.260 --> 0:06:48.099 I just think that it would be a big move 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:51.640 to throw away the mining industry and Australia's reputation as 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:55.300 both a mining economy and one that cares about the environment. 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:57.140 And I think you should be careful what you wish for. 0:06:59.370 --> 0:07:01.670 In fact, the reputation we're getting is for being a 0:07:01.710 --> 0:07:05.560 country so mad green that why would mining companies come invest? 0:07:06.740 --> 0:07:10.100 I mean, how crazy is it that this country kills 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.860 a mine project to save the world from emissions by 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:19.690 people who, customers overseas, that will make no difference to 0:07:19.730 --> 0:07:25.150 the climate that anyone could possibly notice? But Chris Minsterday 0:07:25.210 --> 0:07:28.559 had an argument against that Only last week, you see, 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:31.860 another coal project in New South Wales sailed through with 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:33.140 all the permissions it needed. 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.130 We had a major expansion for mining in New South 0:07:37.170 --> 0:07:40.410 Wales less than seven days ago. Now, that is billions 0:07:40.450 --> 0:07:42.750 of dollars' worth of investment. I don't think that the 0:07:42.770 --> 0:07:45.450 mining sector would be saying, we're up and out of here, 0:07:45.970 --> 0:07:50.030 if they believe that this decision, similar decisions to it, 0:07:50.420 --> 0:07:52.560 were going to cruel all future expansions. 0:07:52.580 --> 0:07:55.160 And it's true. 0:07:55.820 --> 0:08:01.710 Chris Moons is right in part. The Independent Planning Commission 0:08:01.730 --> 0:08:04.210 in New South Wales did indeed tick off on the 0:08:04.270 --> 0:08:07.450 extension of the Hunter Valley Operations coal mine near Singleton 0:08:07.490 --> 0:08:11.830 last week. But what Moons didn't tell you is that 0:08:11.980 --> 0:08:16.320 this mine only got the big tick because the commission 0:08:16.700 --> 0:08:21.160 forced it, forced the operator this time to take responsibility 0:08:21.500 --> 0:08:24.650 for emissions caused by burning its coal overseas and And 0:08:24.690 --> 0:08:28.870 the mine said, OK, we'll do that. The commission says 0:08:28.950 --> 0:08:32.790 the Singleton mine now must limit its coal exports through 0:08:32.870 --> 0:08:38.070 jurisdictions to countries that have policies for reducing greenhouse gas 0:08:38.390 --> 0:08:42.670 emissions consistent, it said, with the goals of the Paris Agreement. 0:08:42.929 --> 0:08:46.170 That's on climate. And even then, of course, the mine 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:48.140 is lucky to get away with that because, as the 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:51.339 High Court suggested, mines could even be forced under this 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.860 law to, say, wash their coal before exporting it or 0:08:55.200 --> 0:09:00.550 other expensive procedures. But I mentioned there the Paris Agreement, 0:09:01.610 --> 0:09:06.370 that UN deal which Australia stupidly signed and which forces 0:09:06.429 --> 0:09:09.710 us to supposedly help save the planet from a global 0:09:09.730 --> 0:09:14.850 warming that's supposedly a threat. And this is where I've 0:09:15.050 --> 0:09:18.720 got to challenge again something that opposition leader Angus Taylor 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:22.820 told me, and you, only last night on this show. 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:27.000 When he said, oh no, no, no, this High Court 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.870 ban of the Mount Pleasant mine had nothing to do 0:09:30.900 --> 0:09:35.010 with this Paris Agreement, which he refuses to pull us 0:09:35.150 --> 0:09:39.240 out of, as the US has done. I wonder whether 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:43.520 this means we should pull out of legal obligations overseas, 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:47.880 like the Paris Treaty, which would encourage judges to say, well, 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.960 this is international law or we sign these treaties and 0:09:50.980 --> 0:09:54.070 this is our obligation. Do you think that... Would you 0:09:54.110 --> 0:09:56.550 have another look at that, pulling out of the Paris Treaty? Well, 0:09:56.630 --> 0:10:00.670 can I say there is absolutely nothing that requires... this. 0:10:01.550 --> 0:10:04.140 This is on the New South Wales Government. It's got 0:10:04.179 --> 0:10:06.120 nothing to do with international treaties. 0:10:06.780 --> 0:10:07.059 Andrew? 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:14.160 No, really? In fact, the High Court judgment on this 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.980 Mount Pleasant mine that's been banned referred to this Paris 0:10:18.020 --> 0:10:23.440 Agreement 60 times. The Independent Planning Commission decision on the 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.980 Singleton mine that was let through referred to the Paris 0:10:27.020 --> 0:10:33.190 Agreement 30 times, insisting it did put obligations on us. 0:10:34.830 --> 0:10:39.070 And bit by bit, this way, the noose, the global 0:10:39.110 --> 0:10:42.650 warming noose, goes around the neck of our coal industry. 0:10:43.900 --> 0:10:48.940 But which party will finally cut us free? And where 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:57.150 exactly is the Prime Minister? When it comes to a 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:00.089 topic like this, come in spinner. Joining me is my 0:11:00.170 --> 0:11:04.709 regular Thursday commentator for years now, Barnaby Joyce, One Nation 0:11:04.809 --> 0:11:08.970 MP and former Deputy Prime Minister. Barnaby, great to see 0:11:09.010 --> 0:11:13.140 you again. Labor ministers and a Labor Premier telling us 0:11:13.420 --> 0:11:17.020 this is not a biggie. Settle down, Barnaby. It's just 0:11:17.100 --> 0:11:21.719 a procedural hiccup affecting only New South Wales minds. It'll 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:22.360 be sorted. 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:28.790 Your view. I'm over-calling them the Labor Party. There are 0:11:28.809 --> 0:11:30.930 no Laborers on the front bench of the Labor Party. 0:11:30.950 --> 0:11:34.469 They are the Socialist Party. They are former student unionists 0:11:34.510 --> 0:11:37.150 with a massive chip on their shoulder who've landed in Canberra. 0:11:37.970 --> 0:11:42.050 If they say that the Albanese and men's are in 0:11:42.070 --> 0:11:45.900 support of coal workers, well, then help coal workers keep 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:50.760 their jobs. by immediately repealing the legislation, which they knew 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:53.560 was coming. This is in my electorate. We knew this 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:55.640 was coming. We knew it was before the High Court. 0:11:56.059 --> 0:11:58.680 They did nothing about it. And now they're saying, oh, 0:11:58.780 --> 0:12:02.750 it's just a hiccup. No, it's not a hiccup. It 0:12:02.870 --> 0:12:07.550 is a terminal disease. on an economic sense for the 0:12:07.570 --> 0:12:11.559 Hunter Valley and for blue-collar workers who actually are labourers. 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:15.200 They actually are genuine labourers. They're actually what the Labor 0:12:15.220 --> 0:12:17.620 Party used to be. Now, the Paris Agreement, it is 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:19.359 ridiculous to say this has nothing to do with the 0:12:19.380 --> 0:12:22.980 Paris Agreement. It quite obviously does. The High Court has 0:12:23.020 --> 0:12:26.220 said in its reference to it, it is you don't 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:28.760 just sign up for treaties and believe that they have 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.660 no effect. Of course they have effect and it's becoming 0:12:31.740 --> 0:12:36.170 more and more efficacious because in its role within Australian industry. 0:12:36.890 --> 0:12:39.820 Here's the final thing. We are, they keep on saying, 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:40.699 a trillion dollars in debt. 0:12:40.740 --> 0:12:41.100 Fair enough. 0:12:42.540 --> 0:12:44.920 And we're working out ways to stop ourselves earning income. 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:50.500 So unless there's a dynamic change of behaviour, this is 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:51.740 what's going to happen to you. It's just a matter 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:53.939 of whether, whether it's in the short term, medium term 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:55.360 or long term, but it's going to happen. You're going 0:12:55.380 --> 0:12:58.590 to go broke. You're going to go broke, folks, because 0:12:58.610 --> 0:13:00.590 you're an export nation and one of your biggest exports 0:13:00.650 --> 0:13:03.010 is coal. You're already into the farming industry, trying to 0:13:03.030 --> 0:13:06.040 shut that down. You're going to the coal industry. If 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.280 you go down this path, just tell us what you 0:13:08.300 --> 0:13:10.740 want to get rid of, the NDIS, your pensions, your 0:13:10.780 --> 0:13:11.800 public hospital system. 0:13:12.020 --> 0:13:12.619 What do you want to do? 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.260 Because poor people don't have those services and we will 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:15.679 be poor. 0:13:18.700 --> 0:13:22.010 Barnaby, let me be clear then. Should there be a 0:13:22.370 --> 0:13:28.070 One Nation government, would you, A, pass some legislation? I'm 0:13:28.090 --> 0:13:29.570 not a lawyer. I don't even know if it's possible 0:13:29.610 --> 0:13:34.950 to override the state legislation here. pass legislation and say, no, 0:13:35.870 --> 0:13:41.130 Australian mines will not be held responsible for emissions overseas, 0:13:41.610 --> 0:13:44.690 and B, would you pull Australia out of the Paris Agreement? 0:13:45.390 --> 0:13:47.650 Well, with great joy, I can tell you over and 0:13:47.670 --> 0:13:50.850 over again that if one nation is elected, the Climate 0:13:50.870 --> 0:13:54.510 Change Department is gone and all the legislation attached to 0:13:54.550 --> 0:14:00.030 it is gone. And we go back to sanity. If 0:14:00.070 --> 0:14:03.130 we have to have... a constitutional issue in regards to 0:14:03.190 --> 0:14:08.030 primacy between Commonwealth legislation and states, the Commonwealth legislation as primacy, 0:14:08.350 --> 0:14:10.670 then you'd have to walk that in. Obviously, you'd have 0:14:10.690 --> 0:14:12.990 to have a good old yarn to the Attorney-General and 0:14:13.070 --> 0:14:20.310 to your solicitors, the Attorney-General, Solicitor-General, that's the word I'm 0:14:20.330 --> 0:14:23.530 looking for, and say, how do we create this legislation 0:14:23.580 --> 0:14:26.740 in such a form as that it overrides the New 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.770 South Wales edict, which is putting these labourers out of 0:14:30.010 --> 0:14:33.690 work and hurting the Hunter Valley, the blue-collar towns in 0:14:33.710 --> 0:14:38.560 the Hunter Valley. And if Premier Minns, he obviously, well, 0:14:38.580 --> 0:14:40.880 he doesn't believe in Laborers at all. I mean, what 0:14:40.900 --> 0:14:43.640 should be happening as primacy? They should be going into 0:14:43.660 --> 0:14:47.000 the chamber first opportunity and getting rid of this. And 0:14:47.180 --> 0:14:50.010 the Labor government federally should be going to the chamber 0:14:50.170 --> 0:14:53.950 first opportunity and introducing legislation that has primacy over the 0:14:53.990 --> 0:14:57.729 New South Wales legislation. It's an international treaty and they 0:14:57.770 --> 0:15:01.870 have treaties resides with the Commonwealth. They can go in there. 0:15:02.130 --> 0:15:03.790 They can say, well, we're out of this. We've got 0:15:03.810 --> 0:15:07.950 nothing to do with the Paris Accord anymore. That's gone. Therefore, 0:15:08.050 --> 0:15:10.830 any ruling that refers to the Paris Accord is gone 0:15:10.870 --> 0:15:11.170 as well. 0:15:13.590 --> 0:15:19.120 Well, it's interesting, isn't it, that Matt Canavan was very 0:15:19.180 --> 0:15:23.420 strong on pulling out of the Paris Agreement until, of course, 0:15:23.460 --> 0:15:26.220 he became Nationals leader and had to compromise with the Liberals. 0:15:27.020 --> 0:15:31.120 So that's a pity. But anyway, well, there you go. 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.480 By the way, though, so you've got all this controversy. 0:15:35.460 --> 0:15:39.040 You've also got business in a big stink about the 0:15:39.060 --> 0:15:45.880 Australian Tax Office not allowing businesses to pay their tax 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:52.860 dues by credit card. You know, you've got these government 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:57.630 ministers now giving different versions of what the government's attitude 0:15:57.690 --> 0:15:58.700 to both issues are. 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.590 Have you seen the Prime Minister lately? Have you seen 0:16:02.610 --> 0:16:05.730 the Treasurer? Where are they? There's a strange leadership vacuum 0:16:05.750 --> 0:16:06.990 at the moment, isn't there? 0:16:07.550 --> 0:16:08.910 There's a bit of... You've got to get a drone 0:16:08.990 --> 0:16:11.330 over them. There's a lot of sharks. You've got to 0:16:11.350 --> 0:16:13.710 get a drone above them and tell us where the 0:16:13.770 --> 0:16:17.930 sharks are. And they're closing in on Uncle Jim and Albo. 0:16:18.390 --> 0:16:21.450 I think it's looking awfully like the end of times, 0:16:22.110 --> 0:16:26.190 political times for those two. You can see they're breaking 0:16:26.250 --> 0:16:28.510 out of their... Labor is pretty good at discipline, but 0:16:28.850 --> 0:16:31.470 once they start breaking out You know, they're getting very 0:16:31.530 --> 0:16:34.390 close to those late-night dinners in Canberra. We're getting to 0:16:34.410 --> 0:16:37.830 the killing season, remember? Late-night dinners in Canberra where all 0:16:37.850 --> 0:16:39.390 of a sudden, not a problem, not a problem, bang, 0:16:40.070 --> 0:16:43.230 new leader. And, you know, when they say, oh, they've 0:16:43.250 --> 0:16:46.380 got to go back, they've got a legislation or something, 0:16:46.430 --> 0:16:48.440 a process where they have to go back to the membership, 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:50.780 what happens? They just repeal that process and they just 0:16:50.820 --> 0:16:54.440 go straight back to the members in Parliament and off 0:16:54.460 --> 0:16:54.800 they go. 0:16:58.060 --> 0:17:00.780 Barnaby, I don't want to be rude... but I will be. 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:05.429 One Nation is light on policies. It's light on costings. 0:17:06.190 --> 0:17:08.550 Some of your MPs don't seem on the same page. 0:17:09.190 --> 0:17:13.209 Your latest one, for instance. You're also the only person 0:17:13.290 --> 0:17:16.640 in the Canberra team with experience in government, the only one. 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:19.859 So explain to me why polls this week say One 0:17:19.900 --> 0:17:22.800 Nation is easily the most popular party in Australia. It's 0:17:22.859 --> 0:17:26.260 not even close. What's the secret sauce, do you think? 0:17:26.340 --> 0:17:29.050 Are you so good or the other so bad? 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:31.619 Well, the first thing I say is, you know, we 0:17:31.650 --> 0:17:34.030 don't get carried away with polls. It'd be hubristic. They're 0:17:34.050 --> 0:17:38.949 a million indicator. We get very excited about elections and 0:17:38.990 --> 0:17:40.050 we've been going well in those. 0:17:40.730 --> 0:17:42.629 So why? 0:17:42.770 --> 0:17:46.030 Because there's two things. They see a sense of business 0:17:46.050 --> 0:17:50.610 sense and a sense of pragmatism. They understand that with 0:17:50.670 --> 0:17:54.590 Pauline's approach, it's straight down the barrel. You might get 0:17:54.630 --> 0:17:56.389 upset with what she says, but you know it comes 0:17:56.410 --> 0:17:59.500 from a good place. I suppose in a more nuanced form, 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.540 it's the same with me. I've got nothing really to prove. 0:18:02.580 --> 0:18:06.540 I've been there. I've done that. This innings is for 0:18:06.580 --> 0:18:08.820 Australia and trying to make sure that, just like what 0:18:08.859 --> 0:18:10.770 we've talked about, we get ourselves out of this hole. 0:18:11.590 --> 0:18:14.590 And I see more matter-of-fact people who have got business experience. 0:18:15.790 --> 0:18:17.810 They mightn't be the perfect politicians, but you've got the 0:18:17.850 --> 0:18:20.310 perfect politicians there. And look at the strife you're in. 0:18:20.690 --> 0:18:24.869 You're in massive strife. Your economy's in massive strife. You're socially, 0:18:25.270 --> 0:18:31.310 it's come unstuck, unfortunately, in forms. If you want perfect politicians, baby, 0:18:31.430 --> 0:18:33.090 you got them and look what it's done for you. 0:18:35.710 --> 0:18:37.850 I think there's probably something there that people are saying 0:18:38.210 --> 0:18:41.210 One Nation can't possibly be any worse. Well, we shall 0:18:41.250 --> 0:18:45.609 see if you get elected government. Who will know? Barnaby Joyce, 0:18:45.690 --> 0:18:50.230 thank you so much for your time. After the break, 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.320 a campaign to stop the war memorial, the Australian War 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:57.840 Memorial in Canberra, from honouring the so-called frontier wars, wars 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:02.940 with Aborigines. Well, the organiser of this campaign says no 0:19:03.100 --> 0:19:12.100 to the lies. The Australian War Memorial in Canberra is 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:17.340 therefore one thing above all. to honour servicemen and women 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:23.600 who died in war for their country, for Australia. So 0:19:23.619 --> 0:19:27.250 the memorial's trustees have caused an uproar by promising a gallery, 0:19:27.650 --> 0:19:31.230 a new one, in two years' time which will commemorate 0:19:31.290 --> 0:19:35.870 Aborigines who died in what it claims were frontier wars 0:19:36.540 --> 0:19:40.220 against whites, against farmers or settlers or colonial troops or whatever. 0:19:41.470 --> 0:19:43.760 That's the plan announced by the chairman of the Australian 0:19:43.780 --> 0:19:47.610 War Memorial Council, former federal Labor leader Kim Beazley. 0:19:48.750 --> 0:19:51.580 Do you find it strange that Australia generally seems to 0:19:51.619 --> 0:19:54.340 have such a lack of interest in or education about 0:19:54.820 --> 0:19:57.720 the frontier wars which occurred across Australia for at least 0:19:57.790 --> 0:20:01.050 a century? And what should be the role of the 0:20:01.070 --> 0:20:02.250 War Memorial in addressing that? 0:20:02.369 --> 0:20:07.750 In the 19th century, all Australian settlers knew everything. about 0:20:07.830 --> 0:20:14.330 frontier wars. They were actively involved. They had actively demonstrated 0:20:14.450 --> 0:20:18.629 fear of it, organised themselves to be participants in it, and, 0:20:18.650 --> 0:20:23.139 of course, committed some horrendous massacres. And that has got 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:27.699 to be, or the conflict element of that has got 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:29.480 to be represented in that memorial. 0:20:32.140 --> 0:20:36.620 Were there actually frontier wars? And should the War Memorial 0:20:36.660 --> 0:20:39.639 have anything to do with them anyway? I mean, more 0:20:39.980 --> 0:20:43.100 than 36,000 people have now signed a petition called Defend 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:47.979 Sacred Ground. It's been organised by Peter O'Brien, a retired 0:20:48.010 --> 0:20:51.930 lieutenant colonel, and also one of the country's bravest history 0:20:51.990 --> 0:20:59.899 researchers and authors, Roger Kaj, of the website darkemuexposed.org. Rosa Kaj, 0:20:59.940 --> 0:21:02.540 what a pleasure to see you again. Why are you 0:21:02.619 --> 0:21:07.260 so opposed to the war memorial, including exhibits about what 0:21:07.300 --> 0:21:12.380 it calls the frontier wars and horrendous massacres? 0:21:14.460 --> 0:21:17.310 Well, basically, Andrew, the war memorial was set up as 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:23.930 a sacred site to honour the 103,140 Australians who sacrificed 0:21:23.950 --> 0:21:26.350 their lives so you and I could be free, so 0:21:26.410 --> 0:21:29.700 our country could be free. So it's a place of 0:21:30.380 --> 0:21:34.560 great sacredness and solemnness and you just can't bring in 0:21:35.500 --> 0:21:39.550 party political activism into that sanctuary. It's sacred ground. That's 0:21:39.570 --> 0:21:42.990 what we're calling it, sacred ground. And it's deeply, deeply 0:21:43.050 --> 0:21:48.170 sacrilegious to do that and also amoral, I think. So 0:21:48.210 --> 0:21:51.460 the activists are trying to use the memorial to further 0:21:51.500 --> 0:21:56.139 their own political aims and And it's very disrespectful to 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:58.679 the families and to the people who gave their lives. 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.540 These are people that signed up. 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:05.410 To the military forces, put on the uniform, servicemen and servicewomen. 0:22:05.890 --> 0:22:07.910 They signed an oath to. 0:22:07.609 --> 0:22:10.930 Our majesty, the king or queen at the time. 0:22:11.450 --> 0:22:14.190 They agreed to fight. 0:22:13.950 --> 0:22:18.020 For the crown and to fight our crown's enemies. So 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:23.040 that's the whole purpose of it. And 103,140 sadly lost 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:23.680 their lives. 0:22:23.820 --> 0:22:26.420 And so it's a place of sacredness. It's not a 0:22:26.460 --> 0:22:29.260 political arena. It's not the parliament. It's not a conference. 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:32.560 It's not a seminar. It's not a city square. It's 0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:33.600 a sacred. 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:36.180 Shrine where you're meant to leave all your day-to-day work 0:22:37.340 --> 0:22:39.250 thoughts at the door, and you go in and you 0:22:39.290 --> 0:22:42.169 reflect on these Australians that gave their lives for us. 0:22:42.190 --> 0:22:47.050 I think fundamentally it's an institution that was created in 0:22:47.130 --> 0:22:49.920 order to unite us so that we could make a 0:22:49.980 --> 0:22:53.639 joint sacrifice. If it actually came to it in the future, 0:22:53.660 --> 0:22:57.409 it's to unite us not to delegitimise Australia, which I 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:01.470 think is really the exercise here. But there's an honesty 0:23:01.550 --> 0:23:06.650 factor here too, Roger. Was there actually anything that we 0:23:06.770 --> 0:23:09.060 could honestly call a war? 0:23:11.420 --> 0:23:13.940 I've been looking at this for quite a few years now, 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:16.139 not just me, but with my group of researchers. 0:23:16.730 --> 0:23:19.720 And there was no war. There was not a war. 0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:24.260 We're using the figures that the proponents of the so-called 0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:27.500 frontier war theory have given us, right? So they've published 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:29.900 their numbers. And all we can find is that one 0:23:29.980 --> 0:23:33.240 soldier in Tasmania was killed, but he was just sitting 0:23:33.300 --> 0:23:36.619 by a creek. He was actually weaving a birdcage and 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:39.340 Aboriginal people came up behind him and bludgeoned him to death. 0:23:39.920 --> 0:23:41.980 That's the war death of a British. 0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:45.030 Soldier in Tasmania, the only one. And on the mainland, 0:23:45.030 --> 0:23:49.070 14 British soldiers were killed. I mean, that's not a war, Andrew. 0:23:49.109 --> 0:23:51.369 There was a lot of violence, but it. 0:23:51.369 --> 0:23:55.620 Was civilian violence. It was settlers fighting Aborigines, Aborigines fighting settlers. 0:23:56.930 --> 0:23:59.630 And you can't... They're not military people. You can't put 0:23:59.670 --> 0:24:00.850 them in the war memorial. 0:24:00.890 --> 0:24:05.020 They don't come under what's called the Australian War Memorial Act, 0:24:05.460 --> 0:24:09.680 which defines that to be memorialised in the shrine, you 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:11.720 have to be a member of the Defence Forces and 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:16.680 you have to be raised in Australia by the Crown. 0:24:16.700 --> 0:24:20.440 And so there's no evidence. 0:24:20.460 --> 0:24:23.840 Yes, but I got that. No, I've got that, but 0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:27.619 activists will tell you, and I've seen some academics too 0:24:27.740 --> 0:24:31.770 of the hard left saying, oh, but listen, there were 0:24:31.770 --> 0:24:37.550 100,000 Aborigines who died in these supposed frontier wars. They 0:24:37.609 --> 0:24:40.850 were warriors themselves. All right, they didn't sign an oath 0:24:40.890 --> 0:24:43.290 of allegiance to the king or the queen or whatever, but, 0:24:43.650 --> 0:24:47.990 you know, these were Aboriginal warriors and therefore 100,000 have 0:24:48.350 --> 0:24:49.450 got to be in the war memorial. 0:24:51.220 --> 0:24:53.530 I've been on your show quite a few times, Andrew, 0:24:53.590 --> 0:24:59.130 talking about fakes, right? And touch wood, I've been right 0:24:59.170 --> 0:25:04.649 so far. I've identified these fake Aboriginal activists, academics, and 0:25:04.770 --> 0:25:09.290 this number of 100,000 is another fake. Its pedigree is 0:25:09.350 --> 0:25:11.820 that an academic 50 years ago, he. 0:25:11.740 --> 0:25:14.119 Came up with the theory of the frontier war theory. 0:25:14.810 --> 0:25:16.550