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Speaker 1: I'm not telling anything. You don't know when I say

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Speaker 1: that small changes can make a big difference. Taking the

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Speaker 1: stairs instead of the escalator, it can do wonders for

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Speaker 1: your vitality. Hanging out the laundry instead of whacking it

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Speaker 1: in the dryer saves energy, gets you out in the sunlight,

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Speaker 1: gets you moving your body. Turning your phone off, putting

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Speaker 1: it in another room for an hour before bed. Apparently

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Speaker 1: that can lead to way better sleep. I'm yet to

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Speaker 1: stick to that one. I try to once.

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Speaker 2: I really should try it more than once.

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Speaker 1: But what if I told you that you could change

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Speaker 1: your life quite radically by eliminating one simple word from

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Speaker 1: your vocabulary. This week's guest did just that. How different

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Speaker 1: her life became. It's really quite striking.

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Speaker 2: What word is it?

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't want to spoil the ending, so I'll

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Speaker 1: let Abbi colm and tell you herself. Abby is the

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Speaker 1: Abby in stab Matt and Abby on b on a

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Speaker 1: five I up in Brisbane, the FM radio station. She's

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Speaker 1: an absolutely brilliant radio announcer. She'd mum to a beautiful

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Speaker 1: tribe boys, and she's the woman who married Audrey and I.

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Speaker 1: She was a celebrant on the day it was just magnificent.

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Speaker 1: This is a conversation I've been wanting to have for

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Speaker 1: quite some time, and I'm thrilled that I waited till

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Speaker 1: now to do it because in this chat, Abby and

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Speaker 1: I actually got the chance to debrief on the record

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Speaker 1: a couple of things about my time in that radio job,

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Speaker 1: which I've never spoken about publicly before. We've spoken about

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Speaker 1: it her and I, but not in a way that

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Speaker 1: you can hear as well. And I'm really glad that

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Speaker 1: I waited until now to do it because it's really

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Speaker 1: quite special. I know you're going to love this chat

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Speaker 1: with Abby Coleman. Before we get there, though, I've got

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Speaker 1: to play some ads. Got to pay the people to

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Speaker 1: help me make the show. So here's some commercials.

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Speaker 3: We're back with Abby.

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Speaker 1: Gooday, this is better than yesterday, helping you make today

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Speaker 1: better than yesterday. Since twenty thirteen, my name is Osha Ginsburg.

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Speaker 1: I am a podcaster. I am a best selling author.

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Speaker 1: I am a husband. I'm a dad, I'm a stepdad.

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Speaker 1: I am a backyard science experiment facilitator who spent the

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Speaker 1: past weekend pretty much making explosive foam fountains with our

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Speaker 1: four year old in the backyard. It resulted in a

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Speaker 1: lot of giggling and squeals of excitement, which was freaking excellent. However,

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Speaker 1: we're now out of a vinegar and dishwashing liquid and

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Speaker 1: by carver of soda, but super fun. I'm glad you're here.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for being a part of the show. Abbi Coleman's

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Speaker 1: on the show today. This chat is next level. We

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Speaker 1: talk about the importance of sleep and the mindset of sleep.

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Speaker 1: We talk about the impact of framing situations and how

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Speaker 1: just by eliminating one word out of your vocabulary can

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Speaker 1: really really change everything. And then we get we get deep,

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Speaker 1: I mean really deep. In this conversation, Abbi talks quite

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Speaker 1: openly about her experiences with eating disorders, her journey through them,

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Speaker 1: and on the other side of those things. We talk

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Speaker 1: about navigating gender dynamics in the radio workplace, and we

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Speaker 1: discuss her work with Small Steps for Hannah, a foundation

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Speaker 1: setup to prevent domestic violence. There's a lot in this

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Speaker 1: it's rocky territories sometimes, but I promise it will be okay.

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Speaker 1: So joining me from Brisbane, the Delightful, the Magnificent Happy

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Speaker 1: Jane Common. You taught me a long time ago when

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Speaker 1: we started breakfast radio together. You said, how you feel

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Speaker 1: about how many minutes not hows minutes of sleep you've

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Speaker 1: had is how you'll feel.

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Speaker 4: I used to google how many athletes had one gold

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Speaker 4: medals and little sleep, Like the people can achieve it,

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Speaker 4: you know, let people go to war and they've had

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Speaker 4: little sleep, Like, you can do it. But if you

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Speaker 4: are gonna just because I'm so preoccupied by it, I'm like,

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Speaker 4: once you look at your fitbit and you realize how

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Speaker 4: little sleep you've had, all of a sudden you feel trd.

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Speaker 4: Where before you were fine. You know, there's so many

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Speaker 4: times you would have gone out to clubs back in

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Speaker 4: the day and party all night and then rock up

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Speaker 4: to work and you would have been fine because it

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Speaker 4: was your own fault. But now, all of a sudden

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Speaker 4: one we're sort of controlled by alarms and work. We

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Speaker 4: just feel more tired. So I always go, we can't

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Speaker 4: indulge in it because that makes me feel worse.

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Speaker 1: That's it's really clever, and there's in more recent times,

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Speaker 1: there's you know, there's science behind how you feel about

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Speaker 1: exercise or how you feel about a task dictates your

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Speaker 1: body's response to that.

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Speaker 2: Like if you're training and.

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Speaker 1: You go cordo, your body will respond and you may

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Speaker 1: as well not really do it. But if you go, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is hard, but I can do hard things, your

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Speaker 1: body responds to it in a positive way and it adapts.

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Speaker 4: One hundred percent. I got rid of should ages ago

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Speaker 4: because it does not serve me, and I feel words

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Speaker 4: are so important and I really do. And the way

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Speaker 4: that I guess my parent has been really like I'll

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Speaker 4: never say to the kids, don't drop that, because that's

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Speaker 4: just ridiculous. So I'll say, hold it with two hands.

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Speaker 4: So I've always done that mentality because all of a sudden,

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Speaker 4: you don't drop it, don't drop it, don'tdrop it, like

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Speaker 4: you keep telling yourself that and you're so scared of it.

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Speaker 4: But if you hold it with two hands, and that's

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Speaker 4: more of a productive way. So I got rid of

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Speaker 4: like I should go to the gym. I could say,

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Speaker 4: I can't be fucked going to the gym, but I'm

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Speaker 4: going to challenge myself. So that's that's my way of going. Okay,

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Speaker 4: challenge yourself.

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Speaker 2: Come on, Iver, how did you get getting the tyranny

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Speaker 2: of shoulds? Is one way of putting it.

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Speaker 1: Also must fits in there, and I've heard it terms

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Speaker 1: you can get caught up with chronic musturbation.

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Speaker 2: It's great, right, How when did you.

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Speaker 1: Realize that the words should was causing a problem in

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Speaker 1: your life.

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Speaker 4: I went through a lot of different therapy over my years,

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Speaker 4: and I've had, you know, different issues. So I feel

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Speaker 4: like I'm so blessed with a really expensive mind because

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Speaker 4: that's how much psychologists have been paid for it, you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean. Sitting on the couch, I feel

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Speaker 4: like I go, oh, now, I'm at the point where

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Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, and how do you feel about that?

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Speaker 4: You know, to the psychologist. So I feel like throughout

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Speaker 4: that I don't know at what point, but I became

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Speaker 4: a little bit more fascinated with not just psychiatry as

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Speaker 4: I was going through it, but also life coaching, and

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Speaker 4: that has been something where for me I kind of

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Speaker 4: go I wanted to know that I was going through

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Speaker 4: a problem, but it wasn't who I was, if that

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Speaker 4: makes any sense. So I needed to always find a

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Speaker 4: more positive aspect. And for me, I guess life coaching

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Speaker 4: and the way we say things to ourselves became more important.

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Speaker 4: So it must have been around about in my mid twenties,

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Speaker 4: but I feel the older I've got, the more important

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Speaker 4: it's been to me.

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Speaker 2: Was it hard to get should out of your life?

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Speaker 2: At first?

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Speaker 4: Of course I still stuff up. Sometimes I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 4: I should go and I was like, oh no, no, no,

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Speaker 4: wait a minute, I am going to tackle the washing,

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Speaker 4: do you know what I mean? Or I want to

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Speaker 4: get through the washing so I can do this. So

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Speaker 4: it's not just about what you're saying out loud, but

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Speaker 4: it's also saying to yourself. So I constantly trip up,

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Speaker 4: even though we know all this, you screw up all

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Speaker 4: the time. And I think that's just the ability to

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Speaker 4: go okay, cool a reset.

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Speaker 2: In your example, you completed the task.

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Speaker 1: But it's also an opportunity to take responsibility for I'm

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Speaker 1: going to sit here and just watch an episode of CSI.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to not do that task and owning it,

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Speaker 1: like understanding fully it'll mean I have to do it later,

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Speaker 1: but I am owning this moment and knowing that it's

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Speaker 1: going to have to get done, but I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to do it right now rather than I find often

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Speaker 1: when if you own the thing, whether you either you're

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Speaker 1: action or in action, and once you take responsibility for it,

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Speaker 1: well then you can it's a little.

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Speaker 2: Less weighty and little, it has a little less weirdness.

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Speaker 4: Well, when I first really suffered with eating disorders, everything

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Speaker 4: was a punishment and reward, and you kind of get

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Speaker 4: rid of the rules because everything's with you know, the reward,

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Speaker 4: I guess was on the scales. But I really forgot

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Speaker 4: to enjoy things and I really didn't find that enjoyment.

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Speaker 4: And I guess recovering from that, you kind of go,

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Speaker 4: oh my god, I really love eating this cake. And

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Speaker 4: for me, that's when I kind of go, I'm going

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Speaker 4: to absorb it and enjoy it and there's no guilt.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, one hundred percent. If you want to watch

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Speaker 4: that TV show, then you do it and you enjoy

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Speaker 4: it and you don't go what I should be doing.

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Speaker 1: You have been quite open about a lot of the

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Speaker 1: things that have happened in your life. Well, I'd love

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Speaker 1: to talk about the kids later on, but you mentioned

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Speaker 1: the eating thing, and that's a really tricky one. When

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Speaker 1: we're young, it starts to happen to people around us,

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Speaker 1: and we don't quite understand it. Once it starts happening

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Speaker 1: to your friend's kids. A lot of people again don't

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Speaker 1: understand it. I've dated someone who was in that space.

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Speaker 1: I didn't understand it.

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Speaker 4: I know, anyone talking about I've never actually spoken to

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Speaker 4: anyone about what it's like to date someone because I've

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Speaker 4: always been absorbed with being that person.

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Speaker 2: It's well, so I had the good fortune.

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Speaker 1: My life's been so lucky. I always seemed to get

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Speaker 1: the lesson that I needed to deal with the heavy situation.

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Speaker 1: Right before I dealt with so, I dated this woman

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Speaker 1: who was a she was a model, and she told me,

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Speaker 1: you know, things to look out for the shape of

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Speaker 1: a voice box, or the rotting of the cuticles on

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Speaker 1: the fingernails.

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Speaker 4: The big scut if you've got like if you get

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Speaker 4: like a scratch, or it looks like some sort of

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Speaker 4: from your.

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Speaker 1: Teeth ration on the knuckle, from the teeth.

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Speaker 2: Grabbing the knuckle elbows.

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Speaker 1: She talked to me about, you know, that's how you

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Speaker 1: can kind of really identify if someone's muscle mass is

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Speaker 1: so low.

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Speaker 2: And I didn't know any of that.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, we'd go to the beach and

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Speaker 1: she'd go yes, no, yes, oh.

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Speaker 2: And then so not long after that, I did another

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Speaker 2: woman and oh there it was there was you know.

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Speaker 1: This person smoked, so the yellowing fingers was Oh no, no,

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Speaker 1: it's a cigarettes okay, and you know, getting up in

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Speaker 1: the middle of a meal, gone to the bathroom, then

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Speaker 1: you know, coming back with you know, wiping the mouth, like,

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Speaker 1: oh right, okay, yeah, it's I mean, it's a symptom.

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Speaker 2: That's I think that's for me. The biggest misunderstanding of.

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Speaker 1: This sort of stuff is that it's a symptom of

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Speaker 1: an otherwise deeper issue. It's not the issue that's for

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Speaker 1: me on the outside looking at it. What do you

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Speaker 1: think people's biggest misconception about eating disorders is.

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Speaker 4: I don't normally say this because I was diagnosed before

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Speaker 4: it was cool, But I was diagnosed in year eight

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Speaker 4: with having a d D, which is what it was

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Speaker 4: called back then. Now a lot of people know it

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Speaker 4: as ADHD, and I was not taking medication for a

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Speaker 4: long time, and then when I got to year ten,

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Speaker 4: their school was like, look, she really needs to go

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Speaker 4: on medication. So I was on deck samphetamines. And for me,

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Speaker 4: it helps so much with my ADHD, but it didn't

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Speaker 4: help with being a teenage girl who wanted to keep

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Speaker 4: her weight down. Because you, if I'm being honest, had

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Speaker 4: just given me a magic pill, and I sort of

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Speaker 4: go I became a little bit obsessed with that, you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean, keep them weight down. And then

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Speaker 4: when I stopped taking them is when my weight blew up.

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Speaker 4: And it was just a real focus. But at the

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Speaker 4: same time, like you were saying, it is a symptom

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Speaker 4: where I didn't get into the university degree that I liked.

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Speaker 4: I was going out with a guy that was absolutely

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Speaker 4: terrible for me. I didn't know what I wanted to

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Speaker 4: do with my life, and all of those things. You

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Speaker 4: do realize you kind of like, well, wait, amte the

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Speaker 4: one thing I can obsess with, the one thing that

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Speaker 4: I can focus on, I guess my white role, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: of what I can eat and what I can't eat,

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Speaker 4: and it just becomes this overwhelming obsession where I felt

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Speaker 4: like I did didn't see much out of it. And

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Speaker 4: you've got these pictures of what you think someone would

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Speaker 4: be an eating disorder would have, but you become really

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Speaker 4: good at hiding it. You know. It's like a functioning alcoholic.

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Speaker 4: You believe the lies and you just you can carry

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Speaker 4: on and you just become a very good liar. And

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Speaker 4: that's what I say about that, that I did become

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Speaker 4: self absorbed with what was going on with me, and

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Speaker 4: I guess not caring how it affected other people around it,

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Speaker 4: or not caring about the actual lives. I just didn't

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Speaker 4: feel I didn't feel one bit of guilt with it

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Speaker 4: because it was just sort of I guess, trying to

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Speaker 4: keep me going and me functioning.

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Speaker 1: And these things work until they don't. Yeah, what was

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Speaker 1: the moment when you thought I'm gonna have to do

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Speaker 1: something about this.

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Speaker 4: I had sort of gone on and off to counseling.

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Speaker 4: My mum knew about it, and it was really hard

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Speaker 4: for her, but it was a bit of a taboo.

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Speaker 4: I didn't talk about it with the rest of my

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Speaker 4: family even though they knew. So Mum went to counseling

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Speaker 4: for it, and she was like, you know, you promise

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Speaker 4: you got to get better. And I just I wanted

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Speaker 4: to kind of live normally, if that makes any sense.

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Speaker 4: I didn't want to live with the secrecy, and I

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Speaker 4: just was like I it came to a point where

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Speaker 4: I was like, I really need to go and get help,

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Speaker 4: and it was finding a psychologist that I actually liked,

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Speaker 4: because I'd been to a lot of different psychologists, you know,

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Speaker 4: I stopped one psychologist because I went in there and

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Speaker 4: she's like, what would it mean for you to be fat?

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Speaker 4: And I was like, whoa bitch? You want to make

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Speaker 4: me fat? I got to leave. I gotta leave. And

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Speaker 4: I never went back to see her. And then I

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Speaker 4: saw this guy that was like and I remember these

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Speaker 4: people like it was yesterday. He was really tall and

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Speaker 4: really thin. I was like, he's my man, he understands.

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Speaker 4: And then he was fully booked out so I could

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Speaker 4: only get a few appointments and I couldn't get back

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Speaker 4: to see him, and then I felt completely and utterly,

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Speaker 4: I guess rejected by him. And then I saw a

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Speaker 4: guy that I ended up going to see him three

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Speaker 4: times a week, and he was in Sydney, and I

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Speaker 4: would sit there and talk about I guess so many

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Speaker 4: different aspects of it. And I remember at one point

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Speaker 4: he said to me, you're going to have to turn

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Speaker 4: around now, whether I was boring him and he just

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Speaker 4: wanted to sleep, but he was like, you change your

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Speaker 4: answer depending on my reaction, So I really need you

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Speaker 4: to face the other way, you know, when you're sitting

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Speaker 4: and you're talking to someone. So I had to sit

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Speaker 4: and do my counseling sessions with my back to him.

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Speaker 4: Like I said, he probably wanted to fall asleep, but

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Speaker 4: it was really quite interesting of him saying, you're always

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Speaker 4: in such a pleaser mode that you're trying to wait

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Speaker 4: and sense my reaction before you go on, and I

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Speaker 4: need you to tell me your truth. So I did

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Speaker 4: a lot of counseling sessions like that and then came

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Speaker 4: to a point where I was like, I feel like

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Speaker 4: I'm done now. And I'm not going to say it's

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Speaker 4: a big savior moment, but I did meet my husband,

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Speaker 4: and I would have been in the first few days.

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Speaker 4: I told him about it, and I remember him just

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Speaker 4: grabbing my hand and he's like, well, we're not going

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Speaker 4: to do that anymore, you know what I mean, I've

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Speaker 4: got you. And I was remember thinking what a weird

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Speaker 4: thing to say for a guy that I didn't think

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Speaker 4: would have any understanding. But his stepsister was anorexic, so

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Speaker 4: you know, it was kind of just a simplistic way

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Speaker 4: to do it. And I'm not saying that is I

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Speaker 4: had done all the work beforehand, but I was like,

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Speaker 4: I just want to find another way. And I'm not

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Speaker 4: saying there hasn't been slip ups throughout that time. But

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Speaker 4: I'm that person now where I goes okay, cool. I

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Speaker 4: need to really sort of put everything that is bothering

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Speaker 4: me into perspective and really have ways of coping with stress.

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Speaker 4: You know, And I've spoken to you about it before,

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Speaker 4: like you're not a good guy if you don't exercise.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, you're not a good guy if you don't

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Speaker 4: get enough sleep. But we always presume that they are

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Speaker 4: things that we can sort of cope with, you know

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Speaker 4: what I mean. So I guess I've just got my

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Speaker 4: ways of what I do throughout stress, and if anything's

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Speaker 4: going wrong and to drop of a hat, I'll go

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Speaker 4: and say someone about it.

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Speaker 1: And you're right, I have this whole list of I

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Speaker 1: made it a whole list of all the flags that

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Speaker 1: I passed on the way to getting terribly ill, and

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Speaker 1: about twenty of them. But if I get any more

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Speaker 1: than three, I know, I know what three weeks now

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Speaker 1: is going to be. So I'm like, yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: pull stumps and I know exactly what I need to do.

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Speaker 1: It took a while before I figured that part out,

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Speaker 1: and I needed to get a bit better because it's

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Speaker 1: hard to address a brain that doesn't think well with

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Speaker 1: a brain that doesn't think well, so it takes a

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Speaker 1: little while.

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Speaker 4: See, I would always like to just bottle the knowledge

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Speaker 4: or the feelings that you have and give it to

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Speaker 4: younger people so they can have some sort of shortcut,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean. Like, I know that we

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Speaker 4: learn it in a time when we need to be

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Speaker 4: able to learn it, but sometimes I just wish that

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Speaker 4: you didn't have to go through that much crap. It

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Speaker 4: would be nice to just be to have some sort

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Speaker 4: of make it shorter, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: Bottle all that and be able to give it to

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Speaker 4: people so they do.

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Speaker 1: That's a that's what any older generation does. That's how

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Speaker 1: any of us learned anything.

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Speaker 2: Anybody in any.

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Speaker 1: Job, your idea that said, hey, Abby, you've got a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of you know, raw this, do a little

349
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Speaker 1: bit of that which I had to learn the hard way,

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Speaker 1: and they're giving you that shortcut and then now have

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Speaker 1: to action that and you have the learning yourself. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: even this conversation people listening to two people talk about

353
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Speaker 1: this sort of stuff might be the first time someone's

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Speaker 1: heard it, you know, and talk.

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Speaker 2: About it as like, oh, yeah, it happens a lot.

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Speaker 1: It happens a lot, and it's a really tough one

357
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Speaker 1: because you've got to eat.

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Speaker 4: You still have to Yeah, And I didn't talk about

359
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Speaker 4: it for years and years because I was like, oh,

360
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,640
Speaker 4: it's not it's not attractive. I know that sounds thing,

361
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,320
Speaker 4: but it's so complex as well. But the one thing

362
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:32,600
Speaker 4: I kind of I feel like being authentic and coming

363
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,080
Speaker 4: back to Scott, that was the one thing that he

364
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,440
Speaker 4: always was. He never is a guy that's ever had

365
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Speaker 4: any masks, and I feel like throughout my life I

366
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 4: always did because whether it was that pleasing mode or

367
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,560
Speaker 4: whether it was that wanting to be liked, where he

368
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,119
Speaker 4: genuinely is what you see is what you get. And

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Speaker 4: I find that is incredibly rare.

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Speaker 2: That you had that diagnosis early.

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Speaker 1: Is it's great because you know, it gave your parents,

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Speaker 1: I guess, a bit of a strategy, and it.

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Speaker 2: Gave you an idea about why it is that you

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Speaker 2: are what you are.

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Speaker 1: But it makes perfect sense that you have the career

376
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Speaker 1: you have and that you found yourself and the places

377
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Speaker 1: that you found yourself and you saw the opportunities that

378
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Speaker 1: you did because you've got a brain that does that.

379
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,680
Speaker 1: When it was the first time you kind of noticed that, Oh,

380
00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,280
Speaker 1: I kind of get places that other people don't get,

381
00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,760
Speaker 1: or get opportunities that other people don't get. I'm not

382
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,520
Speaker 1: going to say you're a hustler. You're not that, but

383
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Speaker 1: you do identify there's a place that I can add

384
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Speaker 1: value and you just find yourself there. And you were

385
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Speaker 1: pretty young when you found that, right.

386
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Speaker 4: Yeah. I enjoy the work. I really enjoy the work

387
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,040
Speaker 4: in every aspect of it because I feel like in

388
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Speaker 4: so many places in my life, I've never been the star.

389
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Speaker 4: I've never been like I went to drama school and

390
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Speaker 4: I remember I just always cruise by, or I was

391
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Speaker 4: always at the radio station, just doing the average jobs,

392
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Speaker 4: and I never really wanted to be the star or

393
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Speaker 4: the main focus. I've really enjoyed being the glue and

394
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Speaker 4: just being the person that's always there. So I mean

395
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,760
Speaker 4: from a young age, I did do acting and I

396
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:10,960
Speaker 4: kind of go I really enjoyed that. But as soon

397
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,280
Speaker 4: as I got a little bit too much, or did

398
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:13,600
Speaker 4: you want this main role? I'll be like, no, I

399
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,680
Speaker 4: don't want that. So I feel like I've really been

400
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,080
Speaker 4: obsessed with the work, not the show. And I don't

401
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,159
Speaker 4: know if that's because if you are the staff, then

402
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,200
Speaker 4: you feel like there's no too much pressure on you.

403
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,040
Speaker 4: But in every place I kind of go, I've put

404
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,840
Speaker 4: myself in. The one thing that's always familiar is just connections.

405
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,040
Speaker 4: I really enjoy dealing with people. I enjoy trying to

406
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 4: bring out the best in people. And that's what I

407
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 4: always say that I've sort of put myself in situations

408
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,200
Speaker 4: where I just always like being the glue in situation.

409
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:43,879
Speaker 4: Maybe it's because I always want to be in the middle.

410
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 4: I hate walking with my friends on the side. I'm

411
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,119
Speaker 4: constantly in the middle in a photo, I'm in the middle.

412
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,240
Speaker 4: I've got this fear of being in the outer don't

413
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 4: even I'm like, please put my name in the middle

414
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,639
Speaker 4: of the showby and Matt. So I guess in most

415
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,119
Speaker 4: of my career I've just liked being a part of

416
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,640
Speaker 4: it and never wanted to sort of be the star

417
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 4: of it. I wanted to be involved in it. It's

418
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 4: that ability to have connections.

419
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Speaker 2: And what are you doing? What are you doing? Radio?

420
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 2: There's a lot of that.

421
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,560
Speaker 1: People only hear them voices on the microphone, but unless

422
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 1: you're doing a day shift, there's at least two other

423
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,200
Speaker 1: people for every person you're here, so there's it's a

424
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 1: big team, and it's a team of people that have

425
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,880
Speaker 1: to work together to get get it done. You obviously

426
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:33,119
Speaker 1: had something because you went from Adelaide and you ended up.

427
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,399
Speaker 2: You did You did the Hot thirty for a while.

428
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 4: Well, I used to drive thunders like you. So that's started.

429
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 2: Giving away as the Cold Cans in the movie of

430
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 2: the Week.

431
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I actually got that job after I did

432
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,159
Speaker 4: the Mold. Do you remember the first reality show that

433
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 4: came to a stround.

434
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was Actually it was a pretty good format.

435
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,719
Speaker 4: I liked it. Mm. So that was in the year

436
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 4: two thousand and I didn't know what I was applying

437
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 4: for because literally there was no reality show. So shortly

438
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 4: after that, pop Stars came out. But I didn't know

439
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 4: what I was applying for it because I applied in

440
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 4: an ad in the newspaper. Amazing, I know, and I

441
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 4: was like I heard they were going skydiving and I

442
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 4: was like, yeah, cool, I want to do it. And

443
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 4: then went for this weird audition into a hotel room

444
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,439
Speaker 4: with one guy. Could you imagine doing that? Now? That's insane.

445
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 4: So I just turned eighteen, or I think I was

446
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 4: just turn eighteen, went for an interview at the Height

447
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,280
Speaker 4: in Adelaide and walked in and there was just these

448
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 4: camera setups and a guy and he's like how do

449
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 4: you do? And he's like do you want to do

450
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,879
Speaker 4: this psych evaluation? I had a bit of chat with

451
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 4: him and then left and next thing I knew, they

452
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,879
Speaker 4: sent me tickets in the mail and set tickets to

453
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 4: go away and film in Tasmania for two weeks. My

454
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,920
Speaker 4: mom was like hell no, And because she said hell

455
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 4: no when I was eighteen, I was like, yeah.

456
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,639
Speaker 2: See you later, I'm going you would runner up on that.

457
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I hated being I hated being known. And

458
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 4: this was out of time as well, where I was

459
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 4: like peak eating disorders. Wow, So I felt so uncomfortable

460
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 4: with then all of a sudden being recognized and being known.

461
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:00,920
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to one of that shooter. Is it

462
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 2: Heaven to leave me alone?

463
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 4: Yeah? But I guess I felt embarrassed because I was like, well,

464
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 4: I haven't done anything. I've just been on a reality show,

465
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 4: so why would anyone want my signature or wanna photo

466
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 4: or anything like that. So after that, when I got

467
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 4: an opportunity to work at the radio station, I was like,

468
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 4: hell yeah, that's doing something. I want to be able

469
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 4: to do that. So I waked doing thunders and I

470
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 4: just you know, waked my way up doing shows and

471
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,640
Speaker 4: realized I didn't like talking to myself on the radio

472
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 4: just during a day shift, so I wanted to do

473
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 4: a radio show with other people. So yeah, I just

474
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 4: kept working myself up and working my way up until

475
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 4: I I had a breaky show.

476
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but getting to your moving state is a big deal.

477
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: What you know, for people who are listening, it might

478
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 1: be considering, you know, what that might be like for

479
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: them or their kidspar In mind, you're quite young when

480
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:48,160
Speaker 1: I happened.

481
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 2: What would you say about taking a jump like that?

482
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 3: Taking a leap like that?

483
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 4: Well, I moved from Adelaide to Sydney shortly after, so

484
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 4: I would have been eighteen or nineteen when I moved there,

485
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 4: and I was like the country bumpkin from Adelaide moving

486
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 4: to Sydney, which is a big town, and I hated it.

487
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:08,639
Speaker 4: Every time I used to go somewhere theco you're not

488
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 4: from Sydney au. I used to be like why and

489
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 4: they're like, you're just a bit too friendly. I was like,

490
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 4: what is that? Because I'm like talking to everyone I

491
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 4: was like, great, but I found that incredibly hard. But

492
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 4: I also feel like you need to do it because

493
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, when you don't have your uh

494
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 4: you're safety in it. You know, when you're safety net

495
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 4: is ripped from you, you really do start living. I

496
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 4: can understand why people have that gap year and go overseas,

497
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 4: and I feel like that's the time where you really grow.

498
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 4: And that would have been the time when I was

499
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 4: going through so much. So I don't think without moving,

500
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 4: I wonder whether I would have had that recovery because

501
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 4: that's then when I was on my own and realizing geez,

502
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 4: wait a minute, God, I'm lonely. God, this is not right.

503
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 4: I'm not doing things how I should. Maybe I should

504
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 4: go and see someone about it. And plus it was

505
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 4: more like a stigma, not the stigma, because I was like,

506
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 4: I don't want to go and see some Like what

507
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 4: does that mean? I only hear about shrinks on American TV,

508
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 4: Like I don't want to go and see someone, but

509
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 4: I'm in a different city and no one knows me.

510
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 4: So whatever, maybe I will.

511
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 2: Ah, that's useful.

512
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But then you got to start, as you mentioned,

513
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: you've got to start dating psychologist until you find one

514
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: that you click with.

515
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 2: Not everyone's for everybody, and that's okay. But it's weird,

516
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 2: isn't it.

517
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 4: People always go when I tried someone, I'm like, no,

518
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 4: but you don't like you don't gel with someone, that's it.

519
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 4: That's fine. You can say don't worries, sorry, it's not

520
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 4: going to work out, and go on to someone else.

521
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you are and bear in mind, this is

522
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: you know, the early two thousands, right, What was your

523
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: experience as a woman in radio.

524
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 4: It, Well, there wasn't many women really working there. I

525
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 4: guess all the bosses were male. I don't feel like

526
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,479
Speaker 4: I ever felt uncomfortable because I grew up with older brothers,

527
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 4: so I've always been in situations where I'm the only

528
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 4: girl and in my household, I'm the only girl, so

529
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 4: I run it. So that's kind of a different shift,

530
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 4: isn't it. But that was always my understanding as the girl.

531
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 4: I always you know, controlled the household, So I never

532
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 4: felt uncomfortable with that. It's funny looking back with the

533
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 4: comments that were made that would never get away now,

534
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 4: Like I remember walking into you know, the office, and

535
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,239
Speaker 4: they're like, jeez, Hobbey, you look like, you've lost way,

536
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 4: what are you doing? Sit down? You know, and they

537
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 4: would be in a conversation with another radio exec and

538
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 4: it would be on speaker and they would be saying

539
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 4: the most terrific things and you're just sitting there dealing

540
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 4: with it as if like, yep, that's okay. It's a

541
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 4: boy's world. So I look back and I go there's

542
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 4: a lot of things that you would never get away with.

543
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 3: Now.

544
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 4: There was a turning point for me when I first

545
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 4: started doing breakfast radio, where it was always like, hey,

546
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 4: the last girl had a baby, So when you have

547
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 4: a baby, you're not going to talk about it. Just

548
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 4: treat it like a second kid. And you know, you're

549
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 4: sitting there and you're like, okay, no worries, and you

550
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 4: know you're a bit of a socialite, so let's just

551
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 4: go out, you know, and see if we can go

552
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 4: out about and this is the big publicity thing. And

553
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 4: I was like, okay, wait a minute. So this is

554
00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 4: my first child and it is a big deal to me,

555
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 4: and I'm not a socialite. I'm a bogan who likes

556
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 4: the V eights. So I don't know how I'm not

557
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 4: going to be myself. And then I was the only

558
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 4: girl in this board meeting and they're talking about what

559
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 4: women want because that's the demo, and I remember just thinking, fuck,

560
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 4: how amazing. And I actually said I was like, this

561
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 4: is so good that you guys know what women want

562
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 4: because I am a woman and I don't, so I'd

563
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 4: love you to be able to tell me more about

564
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 4: what I want. And I think I said it with

565
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 4: enough sarcasm for them to go of course, of course,

566
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 4: of course, of course, yeah, yeah, so and it was

567
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, I'm kind of going, I'm starting

568
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 4: to listen. I was like, how crazy is it that

569
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 4: we're doing a radio show. Our demo was women and

570
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 4: a group of guys was saying what women would want.

571
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 4: I thought, how amazing. I thought, how lucky their wives

572
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 4: must be.

573
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: It's not I had Hillary Inness, who was one of

574
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: my executive producers at the Network for Bachelors a couple

575
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: of years back, and she was talking about when she

576
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: was a Channel nine going on a weekend away. There

577
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 1: was two coaches full, she was the only woman and

578
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: a similar, very similar story. They sat there in this

579
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 1: big conference room talking about what women want.

580
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 2: She was the only woman in the room.

581
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 4: It's crazy and I've also been like, oh, don't worry

582
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 4: about that. Oh, I've here, I don't worry. You're one

583
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 4: of the boys, aren't you. No, I'm not actually no,

584
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 4: you know, okay, sorry, sorry. Yeah. I've been in like

585
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 4: executive rooms where I've had the guys in the room

586
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 4: rate the girls from zero to ten in hotness, and

587
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 4: you just go wow, and it is you know, you

588
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 4: sit there and to be honest, so so many times

589
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 4: where I just smile and laugh it off. I was

590
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 4: never the type of person to go, I'm so sorry,

591
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 4: but I feel like I slowly did it in my

592
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 4: own way, in my own sarcastic way that you probably

593
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 4: know oosha, where you get that message crossed? Do you

594
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 4: know what I mean? Where I'm like, oh my god,

595
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 4: and what do you think you would be on the

596
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 4: scale of zero to ten? Yeah, And I just look

597
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 4: at you and you're like, that conversation's over.

598
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a leadership. They're not. We're talking about a

599
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 2: bunch of people that don't they're not really in the industry.

600
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 4: Any None of them work in the industry anymore, you know.

601
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 4: But it's also the times it wasn't just the industry.

602
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 4: It was also society. You know, I'm never going to

603
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 4: go to a kids sporting match anymore where someone's going

604
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 4: to yell out stop running like a girl. Like it

605
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,479
Speaker 4: doesn't exist anymore. People don't do that. So I think

606
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 4: it was just a reflection of society at the time.

607
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 4: But it was a male dominated industry and you know,

608
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 4: those those times I think have changed changed, and I

609
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 4: think the people that you know were acting like that

610
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 4: have kind of left.

611
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's it's fantastic, you know too. Hans Rosling,

612
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: who wrote a book called Factfulness, has this line, things

613
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: are bad, but they're getting better, and you know, it's

614
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: important to recognize that in the space of your career.

615
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: In my career, such a gantuan change. Like if you're

616
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: sitting in that boardroom and I would tell you one

617
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: day it's going to be close to fifty to fifty

618
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: and there's going to be actually someone who comes in

619
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: with research that will tell you what the demo is

620
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,239
Speaker 1: looking for, you'd go fuck off. These guys will never

621
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: you know, you wouldn't have believed it. But that's what

622
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: happens now, and that's that's amazing. You know, this pace

623
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: of it is wanting.

624
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 4: I've spoken to a lot of women who are still

625
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 4: in radio, maybe they've left radio, and they get really

626
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 4: bitter about it. That's something that's always really bothered me.

627
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 4: I've never wanted to get bitter about it because I'm like,

628
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 4: it's the circumstances that were I don't ever say I've

629
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 4: worked in a male misogynistic place. I kind of got.

630
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 4: I love males. Males are great, but maybe they were

631
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 4: brought up a little bit incorrect at times, you know,

632
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 4: and maybe I could have a one conversation with their

633
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 4: mum about you know, different ways that they could do it.

634
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 4: But that's just not a positive way for me. For

635
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 4: me personally, I'm like, you know, there's things that I

636
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 4: see that I'm going to re educate my boys on.

637
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 4: So I've never wanted to be a bit of person.

638
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 4: My grandma said, you never pay out an old, you

639
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 4: never pay out an X, and you never pay out

640
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 4: a work bad workplace, because it's a reflection of you

641
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 4: and what you could have achieved. And I always stand

642
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 4: by that. So I've never wanted to go, oh, you know,

643
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 4: it was hard working in that and their misogynistic I've

644
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 4: always gone, okay, cool, what can we all do? Better

645
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 4: as humans to be able to change that.

646
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: And I feel what I'm grateful for that because I

647
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 2: wasn't doing very well when we work together, so at

648
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: least I don't know that you probably never talked too

649
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 2: much shit about me, at least not to my face.

650
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 4: I would talk shit to your face, No, I never had.

651
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: I loved that you were very kind.

652
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: You gave it to me straight, which I was so

653
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: grateful for because it was a reflection that I wasn't

654
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: getting from other people.

655
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 2: I've got to tell you, that's facts. I said.

656
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 4: I would never do it, and I've been offered to

657
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 4: do this a radio show where I'm not face to

658
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 4: face with the person. For me personally, I love that connection.

659
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 4: I just don't get it. Like it was really hard

660
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 4: for me to do a show from home during COVID

661
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 4: it was home for me to do zoom calls. I

662
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 4: just I crave that human connection and I found it

663
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 4: really hard because we were doing the shows from different states.

664
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 4: And I was never angry at you. I was angry

665
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 4: for the people that allowed you to be able to

666
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 4: do that, because I was, like, I want to be

667
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 4: you know. We did trial together and it was brilliant

668
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 4: and You're the most amazing, amazing person to work with

669
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 4: because you feed so much energy. But when you were

670
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 4: you were working so hard. You were coming in at

671
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 4: any times throughout the show sleep deprived with technology issues,

672
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 4: which you know, I don't learn technology issues. It was really,

673
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 4: really hard, and we had a lot of times where

674
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 4: I guess you were on different medication and I know

675
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 4: that I used to annoy you by saying what would

676
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 4: happen if you were off those medications? You were like,

677
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 4: you don't understand me. And from me, that comes from

678
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 4: my thing of going okay, cool, I'm a person that

679
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 4: is suffering from any disorder at the moment. I'm a

680
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 4: person who's suffering from and our codependency problem. But that's

681
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 4: not who I am. I'm suffering from it at the

682
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 4: moment and I want to get through it. But you

683
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 4: in that state, you were like, no, this is who

684
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 4: I am and you need to accept it. And I

685
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 4: was like, but I don't accept it. And I think

686
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 4: that's the only difficult we had. But I besides that,

687
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 4: I absolutely loved working with you. I think you were

688
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 4: the most generous person to work with and so knowledgeable.

689
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously your your theosaurus is way larger than mine.

690
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 4: So I didn't understand a lot of the words that

691
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 4: came out of your mouth. But you were going through

692
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 4: a lot when we worked together. Would you say that

693
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 4: like a lot?

694
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: Yeah?

695
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: It broke It broke my heart that I wasn't able

696
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: to do it as well as I wanted to do it. Yeah,

697
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: because you're brought my heart that there was so many things.

698
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 2: In the way, and I got I'm I am sad

699
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: at how I handled.

700
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 4: Some of the.

701
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: More difficult moments because my window of operation was so

702
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: limited and I was trying like i'd bitten off more

703
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: like a jew.

704
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 4: You were ducking, you know, when you got that duck

705
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 4: and the cool on the service and their legs are

706
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 4: paddling underneath.

707
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: Oh, mate, I had I had committed way too much

708
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: for the amount of bandwidth that I had, because I

709
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: was all so trying to get really a lot better

710
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: from someone from being very, very very sick, and it

711
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: was really hard.

712
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 2: Like I was still on anti psychotics when we were

713
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 2: working together.

714
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 4: And sometimes I would love you when you were off them,

715
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 4: and then you would get annoyed that.

716
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: I was okay with it, and I wrote, well, I

717
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: think I wrote about that and that was really, really,

718
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: really hard for me. There was this one morning where

719
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: I've told you all the week before, I said, listen,

720
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: I've got to do this thing. I've got to take

721
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: a week off my bed, so i might be a

722
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: bit of a cunt and I'm really sorry it's gone,

723
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: and you were all like, we understand, we understand it.

724
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: I'd hidden the benzodiazepans with Audrey and I said, only

725
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: give me one of these if I really need.

726
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 2: I didn't want to know where they were.

727
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: I didn't want to know where volumes were because me

728
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: and Vallums are so just decriberate.

729
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 2: And she only really gave it to me once or twice.

730
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: But that first morning.

731
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: We were on air at six I think by six

732
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: forty five, you and staff and had all texted me

733
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: separately without talking to each other, because we're you know,

734
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: we hear each each other a long time.

735
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 2: It's not like we hit done here. Off air.

736
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: You'd all texted me separately going fuck you're funny, Fuck

737
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: you're fast, fucking hell, you're on fucking fire this morning.

738
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 2: What annoyed me is that.

739
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: Because it was the feeling that I would get doing

740
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: things like Idle and Big TV like that is I

741
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: have to get up to such an RPM to operate

742
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: at that capacity. I would then just go to the

743
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: rest of my day gritting my teeth and clenching my

744
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 1: fists because I just was unable to sustain if I

745
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: didn't have I'm doing live breakfast radio, so I haven't ability.

746
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: There's an output, right geez, you talk three straight hours

747
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: non stop. You've got a place to put that energy

748
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: out when that goes away. It's it was I couldn't

749
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: do it.

750
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 2: No wonder. I used to fucking drink so much.

751
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: I have since learned, Like once my brain got a

752
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: lot healthier, I learned a lot more about how to

753
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: access that space and be able to handle it, get

754
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 1: my brain to that point where it has to move

755
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: that quickly, and then how to come back down from that.

756
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: But when we were working together, I didn't know how.

757
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 4: To do that. It was just nice seeing you have

758
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 4: emotion like I can't tell you no, but like no honesty,

759
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 4: like I just felt like you were alive. And that's

760
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 4: probably why I text you. And I can't remember that

761
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 4: morning exactly, but I just I remember just going I

762
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 4: could see sometimes that you used to be robotic, and

763
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 4: I found a hard time with that. I was like,

764
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 4: where's my ash like that? It was a real disconnection.

765
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 4: Sometimes I just knew that you wanted to even cry,

766
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 4: and you just didn't even have that ability. You know.

767
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 2: It was yeah, meant to have benefits and side effects,

768
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 2: you know the benefits. The benefits were that.

769
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,399
Speaker 1: I wasn't seeing shit and hearing shit, and I wasn't

770
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: dealing with the suicidality all day. The side effects. I

771
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 1: was putting on about a killo a week and world

772
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 1: felt like blue tach.

773
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: There was no light or shade. There was no sharp edges,

774
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 2: there was no smooth services. It was just all one color.

775
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 2: And that gets tiring after a while. I've got, thankfully,

776
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: brilliantly I cry now.

777
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: It was incredible, just a little moment away from Abby

778
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: to say that if this podcast brings you some value,

779
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,399
Speaker 1: please share it with someone, Tell a friend, just tell someone,

780
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,720
Speaker 1: all right, or use the share thing in the corner

781
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: of the app wherever it is and share it. Please

782
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,919
Speaker 1: do subscribe, please like the show. That stuff really really

783
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: helps us. Doesn't cost you a thing, but it really

784
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 1: helps us. Here at the show, we have a mailing

785
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: list that is up and running and firing. You can

786
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: find that Oshiginsburg dot com or click the link in

787
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: the show now. But if you want to tell me

788
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: something really easy, just DM me on Instagram. We're back

789
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: at a teach with all that experience of being of

790
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: the men and the men of power in the workplaces,

791
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: you've been in the element of power that you'd encountered

792
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: throughout your life. When Finny shows up, Oh I've got

793
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: a son. Yeah, what starts going through your head around

794
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: what kind of man's.

795
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 2: A going to become?

796
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 4: So I when I was in labor, and I even

797
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 4: I do regret this big time. I got induced because

798
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 4: I was trying to work around hours of the radio

799
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 4: station because we didn't have any we didn't have any

800
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 4: maternity leave, and I just dited a new job. So

801
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 4: I literally allowed myself. And I regret this so much

802
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 4: because I completely had post antal depression as a result

803
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 4: of it, Like it was stupid. But so I only

804
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 4: had two weeks off, so I'd organized to have induced

805
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 4: so that I could, you know, spend time for two

806
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 4: weeks before I go back to work. And I was

807
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 4: in the hospital and with all my sort of I

808
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 4: guess experience and the love I still got from my parents,

809
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 4: but still had such difficulties. I was in a really

810
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 4: quick labor because they had induced and I said to Scott,

811
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 4: I don't want a girl. I don't want to go.

812
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 4: We have to wrap this up because I might be

813
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 4: having a girl because we didn't know what gender we

814
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 4: were having. He's like, what is going on? I was

815
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 4: I don't want, like I can't ever me and he's like, okay,

816
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 4: can we talk about it later? And I was like

817
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 4: I can't. And I just remember saying to my friend,

818
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 4: like I called her every I was like, this is

819
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 4: I need to go home. I might be having a girl.

820
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 4: And she's like do you know? And I'm like no,

821
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 4: She's like, one are the contractions? Can you put on

822
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 4: a midwife? I'm like nah, I'm packing up. And I

823
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 4: must have been a little crazy by it on meds.

824
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 4: But then when I had a boy, I think I

825
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 4: was just so excited because I've never seen I don't know,

826
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 4: I never seen men as evil, women as evil. It's

827
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 4: just it's the person. And I honestly mean that. I

828
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 4: think it's a way that we are raised by it.

829
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 4: But I very early on was like it's not that

830
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 4: I'm not gender specific, but I I remember saying, and

831
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 4: I forgot who said it, but it was like, we're

832
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 4: trying to raise our daughters to be more like men,

833
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 4: but who would be brave enough to raise our son

834
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 4: like we do our And that sort of stuck with

835
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 4: me of going, I don't have a specific way of

836
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 4: how they should be and I have three boys and

837
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 4: a girl at tennis came up to me the other

838
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 4: day and she was really upset because all these photos

839
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 4: of the people had taken their daughters to see Taylor

840
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 4: Swift and she's so upset because she's like, I just

841
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 4: don't have that connection to be able to take you know,

842
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 4: I don't have a daughter. And I went, why didn't

843
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 4: you take your son? And she's like, well, what would

844
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 4: they not like Tayler Like it's an amazing concert. She's like, oh,

845
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 4: I don't know. And I said, well, I took my

846
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 4: son to go and see Pink. She's like, did he

847
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 4: want to go? I said, well, I don't know. I'd

848
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 4: probably never asked my kids. I actually say like this,

849
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 4: I go, I would love to see Pink and I

850
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 4: would love your company. Would you come with me? And

851
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 4: they go, of course, because it's not a girl, I

852
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 4: like on it's not a boy icon, it's experienced. So

853
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 4: I guess I'd never really thought about how I would

854
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 4: specifically raise a man into the world. I just know

855
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 4: very early on that I want to raise them that

856
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 4: they can experience all and I want to raise them

857
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 4: to respect them because I feel like people that respect

858
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 4: themselves don't harm other people. So that's something that I've

859
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 4: really wanted to do. And to respect themselves is to

860
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 4: be proud to be a male. Of course they should

861
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 4: be proud to be a male. I'm proud to be

862
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 4: a girl. So I guess that's just what I've always

863
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 4: thought about having three boys is It's never like, how

864
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 4: am I going to raise them to I guess avoid

865
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 4: what men have done to me, because I think the

866
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 4: only way to do that is just to raise someone

867
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 4: with respect.

868
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: There's a moment, and I remember you speaking about it

869
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 1: because I'm number two of four boys.

870
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I want them to be close. And you

871
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 4: can ever force it, You really can't. You know. They

872
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 4: grow up with different personalities and different life experiences and

873
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 4: it's not always going to be but I always want

874
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 4: them to be a part of each other's life. So

875
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 4: I feel like I might sort of maybe you know,

876
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 4: something happens at school and I'm like, oh, my god,

877
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 4: your brother would love to hear about that, do you

878
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 4: know what I mean? So they'll go into the room

879
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 4: and go, hey, hey, do you know this happened? And

880
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 4: he's like, oh, that's so cool. So I will always

881
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 4: encourage them to be a part of each other's lives,

882
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 4: and they will come and watch the other one play sport,

883
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 4: and I'll try and sometimes encourage them to do different

884
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 4: sports rather than all forcing them to play, you know,

885
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 4: to be the same one. And I feel like sometimes

886
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 4: we can kind of to control them in some aspects

887
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 4: to be able to be part of each other's lives

888
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 4: and whether that's going to continue or not.

889
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 2: When you were describing the.

890
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: Like the wrestling matches happening in your living room, like, yes,

891
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: you're someone that grew up with brothers, so you understand

892
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff.

893
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 2: But when it see these kids.

894
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: It really surprised Audrey when WOLFI was young, because Georgia

895
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 1: was Tutoo's antiaras from she could stand all right, yeah,

896
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: and then Wolf is like barely able to walk and

897
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 1: he not even and he's knocking shit over and like

898
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: such as that that's bam, bam, it's what happens.

899
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 4: I was that in person that got you know, let's

900
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 4: do dolls. I have like this little kitchen, you know,

901
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 4: let's do like cooking stuff. So we're not specifically just

902
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 4: giving them boys toys. Yeah, and the girls would get

903
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 4: thrown around the kitchen stuff has just been banging. It's

904
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 4: like my boys walk into the room and say what

905
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 4: then we what can we fuck up here? Like it's

906
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 4: just what boys do. There is a different energy. And

907
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 4: I remember I was I had only had two and

908
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 4: I took them out for breakfast and one of my

909
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 4: friends was pregnant and I was just up all the

910
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 4: time and they were sort of running around and she

911
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 4: looked over at the two my friend who has two

912
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 4: girls that were just sitting there and they were doing

913
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 4: coloring in and she had tears in her eyes and

914
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 4: she's like, oh, I'm sorry, I don't want boys. I

915
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 4: was like, no, I get it. I totally get it.

916
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 4: But I love the chaos and I love the mess.

917
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 4: But I feel like you might try and guide them

918
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 4: and kind of go yeah, but there are very different.

919
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 4: There is so much energy and my whole afternoons is

920
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 4: involved around sport now, like sportsports, sport. Because there was

921
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 4: a rain day last night and them at home. It's like,

922
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 4: my husband come home. I was like, why didn't you

923
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 4: just give computer games. I'm like, because you know, we

924
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 4: don't do computer games during the week. He's like, yeah,

925
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 4: but I just feel like we can't get the house

926
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 4: smashed up anymore.

927
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that pressure val it's a yeah, it's it's such

928
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 1: a different thing to be in the body. I don't

929
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: remember what it was to be in the body of

930
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: a young guy. And as puberty kicks in which you're

931
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: close to finding out with or if not already finding

932
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: out with finishing, Yeah, you're suddenly like at the start

933
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: of the summer versus the end of the summer, you'll

934
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 1: be fifteen kilos have you and like just shoot you

935
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,359
Speaker 1: explode and then suddenly you're now dropping a V eight

936
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: when you were in like this four soil of the

937
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: stick shift the same brain, brain capacity.

938
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 4: It just doesn't matter. See when I go to school pickup,

939
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 4: and especially with my youngest two, because they're not too

940
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 4: ashamed and they run up and give me a hug,

941
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 4: I kneel down on the floor because I know that

942
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,800
Speaker 4: if I don't kneel down. My feet are going to

943
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 4: be swiped up from around me and I'll lay so

944
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 4: I lay down, kneel down the ground. Answer, But I

945
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 4: hug them so I don't fall over, because it's just

946
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 4: so much like ah, but it is.

947
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: It is so so, so so vital, These just precious

948
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 1: minutes that you have with them while they're awake and

949
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: this little because they won't be this awaken this little tomorrow.

950
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 4: But finding that really hard now with my eldest, he

951
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 4: is twelve, and I feel like, and there's so many,

952
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 4: you know, books on this, and I know you've spoken

953
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 4: to Maggie dan as well, who's a wonderful author about

954
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 4: raising boys. She has four boys, And it like plays

955
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 4: my mind that you've always had this influence over them

956
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 4: and now I'm losing that influence because friends are so important, Yeah,

957
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 4: And I've found that really hard to let go of.

958
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 4: And he'll even say, like, you know, I'll say, who's

959
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 4: the biggest influence in your life now? And he'll be

960
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 4: like my friends, And he's open and we've got a

961
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 4: hugely open communication with him. My middle one I need

962
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 4: to work on. He's very much like harder. I guess

963
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 4: to talk with about it. But it's just it's amazing

964
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 4: when you're like I said to him, you know, you

965
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 4: don't have a phone, by the way, you have my

966
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,720
Speaker 4: phone that you're borrowing, so you don't have any privacy.

967
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 4: I'm going to check it and even so much I'll

968
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 4: have to say, hey, I just don't like the way

969
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 4: that that text threat came along. And he's like, please

970
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 4: don't call their mum, you know what I mean. But

971
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, you know, I want to be

972
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 4: able to go, hey, this, you know, the way you're

973
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 4: talking like not appropriate, And it's hard to sort of

974
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 4: say how much influence you're going to have over it

975
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 4: because I'm I'm taking a step back now and that's

976
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 4: hard for me because I'm not the most important person

977
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:33,720
Speaker 4: in his life anymore.

978
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, they do come back.

979
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: You just when Georgia came into my life, it was

980
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: a maid of mine who had older kids and we're

981
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 1: talking about exactly this, and he said, yeah, they're going

982
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: to ignore you, but it's your job to always be

983
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: there for.

984
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 4: Them, or yeah, I love that.

985
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:53,919
Speaker 2: You see.

986
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 4: It feels like just the other day that you were

987
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 4: wanting this is when we started working together. You were

988
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 4: wanting to learn how to do George's hair. Do you know,

989
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 4: Like that's how quickly she's grown up.

990
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 2: Now she's twenty, She's teaches me she doesn't.

991
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 4: Want you to brow her hair, but that's how many

992
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 4: years ago, like you just realized how quickly they do

993
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 4: in a.

994
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 2: Blink of an eye. Abby, she teaches like eight pilates

995
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 2: classes a day she goes to. It's like amazing, amazing.

996
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 2: I'm so proud of her.

997
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: When you are looking at three young boys and you

998
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: look at what there's healthy and unhealthy masculinity. Yeah, and

999
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: I know that you're quite involved with Small Steps for Hannah.

1000
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: Tell me about what it was I mean for people

1001
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: who don't know the story, but tell me about what

1002
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: it was about that that made you go, I've got away.

1003
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 3: In on this.

1004
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 4: So if anyone that doesn't know, Small Steps Hannah was

1005
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 4: a foundation that was started after on the nineteenth of

1006
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 4: February twenty twenty when Hannah, Aliah, Leana and Trey lost

1007
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 4: their lives as a result of they were burnt in

1008
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:02,320
Speaker 4: a car by their dad and her ex. And that

1009
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 4: was around the corner from where I live. So you know,

1010
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 4: when we first heard her on the news. We were like,

1011
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 4: wait a minute, that's the kid's school that's right around

1012
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 4: the corner. So it was right in my area. And

1013
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 4: then I guess I looked up. I don't know, I'm

1014
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 4: like forever one of those detectives. I looked her up

1015
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 4: on Instagram and I realized that she'd followed me on Instagram,

1016
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 4: and I realized who she was. I bumped into her

1017
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 4: at our local bottle shop and I remember saying, look,

1018
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 4: if you and your fit bod having a drink, then

1019
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 4: us you know, in my tracky pants, so I'm able

1020
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 4: to have a drink. So I remember who she was

1021
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 4: because she was asked me to go to the gym

1022
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 4: because I had this conversation because you know, I like

1023
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 4: to chat to strangers, and I just sort of was

1024
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 4: like I wasn't a part of her life, but she

1025
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 4: was liking photos of me and my kids, and I thought, wow,

1026
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 4: isn't it. You don't know people following you what they're

1027
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 4: going through, do you know what I mean? It was

1028
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 4: just that weird connection. And having three boys, I wanted to,

1029
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 4: I guess, raise them in a world of it's really

1030
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 4: scary to be a male. It's really scary to be

1031
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 4: a female, but it's really scary about what has it

1032
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 4: actually been mean to be a male. And then the

1033
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 4: other reason is I've worked in media for so many

1034
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 4: years and I've just been really really frustrated with the

1035
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 4: way that domestic violence is reported on. And I say

1036
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 4: that because if there was a murder and we say

1037
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 4: there is a murder and no one knows that they

1038
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 4: were related or have a connection, then there's this fear

1039
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,359
Speaker 4: and outrage of how this individual, this violent individual, could

1040
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 4: affect me. But then once it is learned that it's

1041
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 4: domestic violence situation, it is sadly somehow softened, as if

1042
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 4: the community isn't to fear, And I've always thought that's

1043
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 4: really quite strange. I realized, what point do we get

1044
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 4: where domestic violence is a softening of violence? So for me,

1045
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 4: I sort of just reached out and said, if there's

1046
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 4: anything you guys need, let me be a part of it.

1047
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 4: I can m see anything, let me know. And then

1048
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 4: they did and said, well, actually would love you to

1049
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 4: come on board with as an ambassador. So I've got

1050
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 4: to know Sue and Lloyd quite well, which is Hannah's parents,

1051
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 4: and I just they are the most unbelievable people like unbelievable.

1052
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 4: They've done to campaign for coercive control laws that are

1053
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 4: getting changed here in Queensland. I know they want them

1054
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 4: to be changed all over the world. It's what's happened

1055
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 4: over in the UK many many years ago. So I

1056
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 4: guess I just wanted to do anything that they needed

1057
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 4: to be able to help out. And I love what

1058
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 4: the Foundation is doing because there's a lot of different

1059
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 4: charities that are really good and they know that, but

1060
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 4: they understand the complexities of it. They understand that perpetrators

1061
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 4: need to get help. They understand that we need to

1062
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 4: do what we can to stop people being perpetrators, which

1063
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 4: is have the education at schools and learn from a

1064
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 4: really young age about what's healthy relationships, what is respects

1065
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 4: as well, and that's something that they're rolling out this

1066
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 4: year at schools, which is probably something that I'm the

1067
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 4: most passionate about. So yeah, there's many reasons why I

1068
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 4: wanted to come on board, and I just what the

1069
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,720
Speaker 4: Foundation has achieved in a short time is absolutely amazing.

1070
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 2: How do you speak to your boys about this?

1071
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 4: I was saying this when I was hosting an event

1072
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 4: for it just last week for the International Women's Day

1073
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,439
Speaker 4: and I was like, I actually encourage you to tell

1074
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,800
Speaker 4: your kids where you've been today, Like that's to be honest,

1075
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 4: Like you know, you go away to event like this

1076
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 4: and you don't say what you were. You know it's

1077
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 4: a domestic violence thing, and you do it in an

1078
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 4: age related way, but you're saying that a man, a

1079
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 4: man murdered his children and his wife in a really

1080
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 4: horrible act because he couldn't control himself and couldn't go

1081
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 4: and get help. And that's the way that I probably

1082
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 4: explained it to them and their last questions, and I

1083
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 4: will answer them in appropriate way, but I never ignore

1084
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 4: it or never don't talk about it, and I do

1085
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 4: talk about how and this is kids lose their temper,

1086
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. And it's not just about that,

1087
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 4: but I kind of go, I get concerned and about

1088
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 4: their anger and ability to control it. So I guess

1089
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 4: that's one thing that we've always talked about it. And

1090
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 4: it's not saying it's going to extend to that, but

1091
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 4: it's like, let's take a step back and let's talk

1092
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 4: about how we really feel about it. And often it's

1093
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 4: not to do with anger. Often they do burst into tears.

1094
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 4: So I guess the one thing that I've done is

1095
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 4: to try and talk about what healthy emotions are, because

1096
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 4: I do believe that people can get anger, but I

1097
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 4: don't believe rage. It's normal, you know, you know, you

1098
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 4: can get jealous, but then this overwhelming desire to hurt

1099
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 4: someone as a result of it is not Okay.

1100
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like anything that kids learn how to do.

1101
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 1: It's like really really big feelings, like yeah, the humiliation

1102
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 1: of being armed, yes, yes, and to deal with rejection

1103
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: and everyone and then everyone's tagged you and every photo

1104
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: with their new partner, like yeah, that is huge. It's

1105
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 1: going to that is It's like trying to learn how

1106
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 1: to juggle the chainsaw a bowling ball on an apple

1107
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: and only taking a bite out of the apple.

1108
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 2: Like it's hard. You need practice learning to deal with

1109
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:03,320
Speaker 2: that kind of feeling.

1110
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 1: If you've never had that practice or you've never shown

1111
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: how to deal with it when it happens for the

1112
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: first time, you're going to default to to defense, which

1113
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: can often look like the anger or rage.

1114
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 4: But I'll still talk about my big feelings now, so

1115
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 4: if something happens to me, I'll go, guys, i am

1116
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 4: I'm not good at the moment, you know what I mean,

1117
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 4: and they're like okay, okay, and like some sometimes someoneill

1118
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 4: actually hold my hand and say do you want to breathe?

1119
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 4: But also I'll talk about you know, I'll go, oh,

1120
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 4: may I am really jealous of what's happened on another

1121
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,720
Speaker 4: radio station or something along those lines. So I'm actually

1122
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 4: expressing it because I feel I feel a lot like

1123
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,879
Speaker 4: I feel huge emotions. I am blessed with the most

1124
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 4: short attention span that you could possibly imagine, so I

1125
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 4: get over it really quickly. But I feel like if

1126
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 4: we don't feel it, then we're sort of pushing it down.

1127
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 4: It's coming to the service. We're pushing it down. It's

1128
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 4: coming to the service. But if you actually allow yourself

1129
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 4: to complete body feel it, I actually go oh, emotions

1130
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 4: are really not something to be scared about. It's actually energy.

1131
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 2: Yeah right, you know what I mean.

1132
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 4: Like they're awful, but it's actually energy. My Nunn used

1133
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 4: always say to me, like, you happy, happy, and I

1134
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:11,839
Speaker 4: was like, well, I can't maintain happy twenty four seven,

1135
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:14,479
Speaker 4: but I also can't maintain anger twenty four to seven.

1136
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean? Like it is it's

1137
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 4: just energy that sort of goes through you. So for me,

1138
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 4: I really want to teach the boys about emotions because

1139
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 4: I don't think we talk about it enough, and how

1140
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 4: they can be indicators about what's going on in our life.

1141
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 4: And is there coping ways of how we can deal

1142
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 4: about it. Whether I'm getting it right or not, I

1143
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,399
Speaker 4: don't know. That's my constant thing that I will stay

1144
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 4: awake at one in the morning, you know, thinking about.

1145
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 4: But if I can't, then I will often go, Okay,

1146
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 4: wait a minute, Let's see if I can try and

1147
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 4: get some help from here. Let's see if I can

1148
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 4: try and google some answers for this. But the biggest

1149
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 4: thing that we kind of do is I don't want

1150
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 4: to be a perfect parent. I want to be able

1151
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 4: to learn with them. And this is the first time

1152
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 4: I've done it. It's the first time they've been kids.

1153
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 4: So we're going to get it wrong. We're going to

1154
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 4: get it right. But I do often go, Guys, the

1155
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 4: way I actually reacted to that was really wrong. It

1156
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 4: was really wrong. The way that I yelled at your

1157
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 4: dad like that, it was really inappropriate. I really apologized

1158
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 4: to him, and I really don't want to do that again.

1159
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 4: So there's so many different ways I could do it,

1160
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 4: and I can tell you what I'm trying to do

1161
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 4: next time.

1162
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say it's nice to hear that

1163
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: after being married nearly fifteen years, you still yell it's squat,

1164
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 1: but that you're able to talk about it is probably

1165
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:18,399
Speaker 1: one of the reasons you're still married and it's nearly

1166
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 1: fifteen years.

1167
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I'll be like I said, something happened the

1168
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 4: other day and I was away for work. Yeah, I

1169
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 4: was in Daydream Island, so I can understand how it

1170
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 4: wasn't for work. And I came back and there was

1171
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 4: like I was nitpicking with stuff, and I was like,

1172
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 4: what is wrong with you? Because he was really quite

1173
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,240
Speaker 4: rude to me, and he's like, well, actually, I'm really annoyed.

1174
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 4: I've came back, I did the best job that I could,

1175
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 4: and you've just it feels like you're nitpicking and it

1176
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 4: really offended me. And I was like, you're one hundred

1177
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 4: percent right, babe, Like I'm really sorry and I love you,

1178
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 4: and I kind of go it's that thing where we

1179
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 4: sort of but I was like, if we both allow

1180
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 4: ourselves to be honest with how we're feeling, the kids

1181
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 4: see that, Like they take in so much. And if

1182
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 4: you're bickering, so be it, as long as you're not

1183
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 4: bickering constantly over the same things and not finding an

1184
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 4: end to it. So that's something that I always want

1185
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 4: to be able to show to the kids, is we

1186
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 4: are getting it into it.

1187
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:10,880
Speaker 1: Is that The key for you and Scott is that

1188
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: how fifteen years and through kids and wild career shifts

1189
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 1: has managed to happen.

1190
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 4: He's always been like, we always find a way. It's

1191
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 4: always his thing. When I was like, oh, this always

1192
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 4: gets a bit too much, this always gets you know,

1193
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,399
Speaker 4: He's like, we always find a way. He just goes

1194
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 4: through different moments in life. I think, you know, you

1195
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 4: go through moments where one person's more into the other

1196
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 4: than the other person is. You know, I think that

1197
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 4: is true where it's not falling out of love with

1198
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 4: each other at the same time. And I do I

1199
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 4: do love him, Like I still get excited when he

1200
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 4: walks into the room. I think marriage is completely long.

1201
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 4: If you're not getting butterflies, you know by the person

1202
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 4: that you're marrying them, maybe you sort of marrying the

1203
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 4: wrong person. But I still get excited with his company,

1204
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 4: and we still sort of enjoy it, and I think

1205
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 4: when things just get a little bit chaotic, you just

1206
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 4: have to take that moment to reconnect. We're both very

1207
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 4: physical people as well, so I guess we've always had

1208
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 4: that and I will never let the hugs stop because

1209
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:15,800
Speaker 4: I think that's really important.

1210
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: You have been so generous today, staying up this late

1211
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 1: to talk to me and giving yourself about forty eight

1212
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 1: minutes between now and pick up to do this. I've

1213
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 1: wanted to have you on this show for so long

1214
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:35,839
Speaker 1: and I'm just so grateful that where you waited till

1215
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 1: now because the way that we've spoken today are I

1216
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 1: really hope people get a lot of it.

1217
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 2: I think that will. I think people get a lot

1218
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:45,839
Speaker 2: out of this. And you've been so generous and you're

1219
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 2: fucking superstar.

1220
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 4: I've got a lot out from being friends with you.

1221
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 4: You really are like a fountain of knowledge. I mean,

1222
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 4: there's obviously things that annoy you, annoy me, and obviously

1223
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 4: things about me I'm sure that annoy you, But like

1224
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,120
Speaker 4: the ability to be able to work with you, I

1225
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 4: honestly go for all the tough times. It was really amazing,

1226
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 4: I guess to learn so much. But you as a

1227
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,399
Speaker 4: sort of person that does teach people a lot about

1228
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 4: themselves through you being so open and honest. I even

1229
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 4: just working with you for that short period of time,

1230
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 4: I did learn a lot about myself.

1231
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 1: Well, I'm One thing I love about this rapidly shrinking

1232
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 1: and ever so moving industry that we both work with

1233
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: is that you'll always work with everyone you've always worked with,

1234
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: So I have no doubt. I have no doubt that

1235
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: we will work together in some cafescia again, and I

1236
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 1: really can't wait.

1237
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 3: For that day.

1238
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 4: I have to get more grumpy and then we can

1239
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 4: work on am.

1240
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 2: You're the best? Thanks, Havy, You're the best. That was

1241
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 2: Abby Jane Colemon. She's great. She's on B one I

1242
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 2: five every morning.

1243
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 1: She's a total super star and I can't thank her

1244
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 1: enough for her openness or her honesty. And I'm really

1245
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: grateful that she and I could speak about our time

1246
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,919
Speaker 1: working together. I wrote a bit about it in my book,

1247
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: but I hope it was a value to hear a

1248
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: frank and honest assessment of what it's like to work

1249
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: with a person who was going through some jit. Hopefully

1250
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 1: as a way to either encourage you or someone you

1251
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: know to maybe you can talk to them about, you know,

1252
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 1: maybe getting help, because it can blow a career right

1253
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 1: out of the water if you're not careful. That was

1254
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 1: what you just heard was me seeing like two doctors

1255
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: and like I was throwing everything at it, and still

1256
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: it was. It was difficult, but it can be way

1257
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 1: way less successful than that. Thank you so much for

1258
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 1: joining us today. I'll be back on Friday. I'm going

1259
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 1: to let that chat with that be kind of percolating

1260
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: my head a bit. I might have a few more

1261
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 1: thoughts about some of the stuff we spoke off, but

1262
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: I like to sleep on it for a night or two.

1263
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 1: And yeah, I'll be back here on Friday with that.

1264
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: We do have a mailing list. There's a link in

1265
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: the show notes. You can also go to Oshagainsburg dot com.

1266
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: If you've got anything to say about the show, reply

1267
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 1: to that or just DM me on Instagram.

1268
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 2: Big thanks to the team that made this happen audio post.

1269
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 1: This one was by Conrad Hendrix's and Andy Maher, Jazz

1270
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 1: Fenton Menzies, and Monica Chapman. We're a big part of

1271
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: making the show as well. Thank you so much for

1272
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: listening share the show If that helped you with somebody something.

1273
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 2: If you heard this and you went, oh, my friend,

1274
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 2: could he deal with that?

1275
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 3: Just tell them about it and hopefully that can find us.

1276
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 2: We'll just text them the link.

1277
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 3: That'd be great. Thanks for being part of the show.

1278
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 3: See you Friday.