Speaker 1: Melanie Cheng's newest novel, The Burrow, stole an evening of
Speaker 1: my life. I was already a fan of her first
Speaker 1: two books, short story collection Austrainy Day and her first novel,
Speaker 1: Room for a Stranger. She's a terrific writer, and I
Speaker 1: was excited that she had a new book coming out.
Speaker 1: And The Burrow looked promising. Gorgeous cover, this large, implacable
Speaker 1: rabbit on the front, and a blurb that intrigued describing
Speaker 1: the Melbourne based family jin Amy and Lucy. At the
Speaker 1: novel's core when, during the height of COVID lockdowns, they
Speaker 1: buy a pet rabbit for Lucy, and then Amy's mother,
Speaker 1: Pauline comes to stay. The family is forced to confront
Speaker 1: the tragedy of their shared past. Definitely one for the
Speaker 1: to read list, but it arrived in a week where
Speaker 1: I was utterly swamped, where the possibility of giving over
Speaker 1: to a good book felt tenuous. I had three other
Speaker 1: books jostling for my urgent attention emails to apply to
Speaker 1: basic life maintenance beyond overdue. Melanie Chang and her latest
Speaker 1: foray into intimate familial insights and a Search for Connection
Speaker 1: was going to have to wait. But I had five
Speaker 1: minutes to spare between other things, waiting for a load
Speaker 1: of washing to finish its run, so I could hang
Speaker 1: it out. Not enough time to do anything substantial, but
Speaker 1: maybe just to perch on the arm of the couch
Speaker 1: and just skim the opening page, just for a minute.
Speaker 1: Then I blacked out and came to several hours later.
Speaker 1: It was dark outside, the washing, sat unattended in the machine,
Speaker 1: and I just read a wonderful, engrossing novel. I'm Michael Williams,
Speaker 1: and this is Read This, the show about the books
Speaker 1: we love and the stories behind them. There's another reason
Speaker 1: beyond business that I was surprised that the Burrow managed
Speaker 1: to work such a spell on me. We began making
Speaker 1: read this just over a year ago, in July twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three. It was a little over three years after
Speaker 1: the pandemic had begun, and just enough time for people
Speaker 1: to experience, process and begin reflecting on that life altering
Speaker 1: period of time. We were inundated with what can only
Speaker 1: be described as the COVID novel and by and Marge.
Speaker 1: I tended to avoid them like the plague. So why
Speaker 1: was this book an exception? Well? I do have something
Speaker 1: of a theory about that. See when she's not crafting delicate,
Speaker 1: richly drawn stories, Melanie cheng as a day job is
Speaker 1: a practicing GP. I know, talk about overachiever, But not
Speaker 1: only does it mean that as a GP, she spends
Speaker 1: a lot of her day listening to people at their
Speaker 1: most vulnerable, they're most human. I think perhaps it meant
Speaker 1: that for Melanie chan a pandemic and its attendant losses
Speaker 1: and indignities offered a different kind of narrative potential. Before
Speaker 1: I even read my first Clovid novel, I already had
Speaker 1: a sense of fatigue. You know, you go through those
Speaker 1: years and I think we came out the other side
Speaker 1: and we're like, oh my god, this is going to
Speaker 1: be every bit of culture from now on, every bit
Speaker 1: of pop culture whatever. And the Burrough might be the
Speaker 1: first time I've read something where placing it in that
Speaker 1: time and space feel so powerful and so moving and
Speaker 1: so evocative in ways that really enhance the core story
Speaker 1: rather than add to a sense of cultural fatigue. And
Speaker 1: I'm curious about when you knew you wanted this to
Speaker 1: be a kind of lockdown novel.
Speaker 2: Well, I'd had kind of general discussions with my agent
Speaker 2: even before you know, embarking on writing again, and she
Speaker 2: was telling me be.
Speaker 3: Where the lockdown novel.
Speaker 2: Publishers are not interested in it, and readers don't want.
Speaker 3: To go there.
Speaker 2: So I already had that in my head before i'd
Speaker 2: even kind of had the idea for the Burrow. I
Speaker 2: didn't have that intention initially, of course, but it was
Speaker 2: such a big part of my life as a working
Speaker 2: GP and as a homeschooling mother. And the inspiration, of
Speaker 2: course for the novel came from my own pet, mini
Speaker 2: lock rabbit, which we took in as a lockdown pet,
Speaker 2: as so many other families did not in rabbits necessarily,
Speaker 2: but you know, something small and furry to get us
Speaker 2: through the bleak pandemic, and it just felt right to
Speaker 2: set it.
Speaker 3: In that era.
Speaker 2: Even though I knew that it might be a hard cell,
Speaker 2: I think it is a great magnifier the pandemic. I
Speaker 2: tend to write stories set in domestic setting, small homes,
Speaker 2: because I feel there's a lot of drama in that,
Speaker 2: and it just added to the claustrophobia, the fear, and
Speaker 2: the uncertainty, and yeah, it made sense and you know,
Speaker 2: on some level, and this is something that I've realized
Speaker 2: later It wasn't part of my intention, but I think
Speaker 2: it is important that we document that time because while
Speaker 2: we don't want to revisit it now, because we have
Speaker 2: this kind of almost collective PTSD about it, myself included,
Speaker 2: I think that in decades in the future, we will
Speaker 2: have forgotten what it was actually like on a day
Speaker 2: to day basis, and future generations might also want to
Speaker 2: know what it was like. I mean, we often think
Speaker 2: we'll remember, but you know, as time and time again,
Speaker 2: we'll show us we do be forget.
Speaker 1: I think it's one of the things that shocked me,
Speaker 1: and most of all, I remember moments during lockdown, thinking
Speaker 1: this will change everything forever, you know, like we're not
Speaker 1: going back. This is going to fundamentally change the way
Speaker 1: we are as a society, the way we relate to
Speaker 1: each other. And the speed with which we reverted to
Speaker 1: type with which we tried to just pretend it hadn't happened,
Speaker 1: was like the entire project of global capitalism was just like,
Speaker 1: oh no, I'm asserting myself again. I'm not remotely interested
Speaker 1: in thinking about the ways we relate to one another,
Speaker 1: the ways we commute, the ways we work, all of
Speaker 1: that stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very much so, I think that is the power
Speaker 2: of denial. I think a lot of us had that
Speaker 2: feeling early on in the pandemic that you know, there
Speaker 2: was almost.
Speaker 3: A little bit of relief in.
Speaker 2: Stopping and pausing and you know, reconnecting with our family. Initially,
Speaker 2: there was some joy in doing that. And then of
Speaker 2: course two years down the track.
Speaker 1: I mean, you said your homeschooled a child, So anyone
Speaker 1: who homeschooled their child had a limited capacity to see
Speaker 1: the romance exactly, but at a thematic level, at a
Speaker 1: creative level, in the context of this book, the ways
Speaker 1: in which, as you say, has this kind of magnifying
Speaker 1: or heightening effect on a whole lot of themes and
Speaker 1: ideas that are incredibly resonant, regardless of pandemic or not,
Speaker 1: you know, around isolation, around intimacy, around both that combination
Speaker 1: of claustrophobia and loneliness that can happen in families, you know,
Speaker 1: the ways in which those things play out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean even that denial is something that
Speaker 2: this family who are you know, ravaged by grief, are
Speaker 2: also in the film of denial and they haven't yet
Speaker 2: moved on, and so that also resonates you know, with
Speaker 2: the smaller story of the book set within this larger
Speaker 2: pandemic theme, and working as a health professional, you know,
Speaker 2: there was a great deal of fear and uncertainty and
Speaker 2: that I felt was reflected in this creature, which was
Speaker 2: a prey animal. And I think it was very important
Speaker 2: that the pet was a prey animal. It's so different
Speaker 2: from a dog or a cat, which you know, we
Speaker 2: don't tend to think of as predators, but of course
Speaker 2: they are, and so they are allowed to relax in
Speaker 2: a way that you know, it was quite striking to
Speaker 2: me as the pet owner of a rabbit. I hadn't
Speaker 2: ever spent much time with rabbits before. How we would
Speaker 2: come across each other and he would bolt, and you know,
Speaker 2: he was always alert. He doesn't even sleep with his
Speaker 2: eyes closed, and he only ever sleeps with very short interludes.
Speaker 2: And you know, that was a little bit like me
Speaker 2: during the pandemic. I didn't sleep for very long. I
Speaker 2: was in this heightened state of anxiety and awareness, and
Speaker 2: to have that mirrored in this animal was really interesting
Speaker 2: to me, and I did think this is something I'd
Speaker 2: like to explore.
Speaker 1: His name was Mini.
Speaker 2: His name's Miles, named after by my son after Miles Morales.
Speaker 1: I don't want to move away from Miles just yet,
Speaker 1: because I am curious about the ways in which different
Speaker 1: kinds of pet ownership do change, You know they do.
Speaker 1: Are you in a pet person pre Miles?
Speaker 2: Well, no, a bit like Jin, the character in the book.
Speaker 2: You know, I grew up in Hong Kong and apartments,
Speaker 2: and so we felt it was a little bit cruel
Speaker 2: to have pets. But I've always been quite fascinated with
Speaker 2: pet ownership. I've also kind of had some difficulties to
Speaker 2: reconcile with.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: For instance, when we got Miles and adopted him, we
Speaker 2: were taking him away from his mom and his siblings,
Speaker 2: and I don't know how I completely felt about that.
Speaker 2: And he's a lone pet, and so it did feel
Speaker 2: like somewhat a selfish kind of act in some ways.
Speaker 2: And like rabbits are very interesting, and I think I
Speaker 2: convey this in the book that you know, they don't
Speaker 2: give you much, but when they do give you something,
Speaker 2: it's quite a you know, a bit of a dopamine kick.
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, a hard to get lover or something,
Speaker 2: you know, like it's the pursuit of it that we love.
Speaker 2: But the other thing about I mean, I mentioned the
Speaker 2: prey animal side of things, but there was also this
Speaker 2: feeling that there was this unknowable quality two miles for me.
Speaker 2: You know, we're always joking that he's giving us the
Speaker 2: bombastic side eye. We don't really know what he's thinking
Speaker 2: or what he's feeling. I mean that rabbits do this
Speaker 2: glorious thing called a binkie, which is a little leap
Speaker 2: in the air, and halfway through they kind of twist
Speaker 2: and once you've seen it, it's really delightful, and that
Speaker 2: is when you know they're happy. But that is very
Speaker 2: few and far between, so in between times we're really
Speaker 2: left guessing. And again, in terms of the themes of
Speaker 2: the novel, that tied in quite beautifully. I think because
Speaker 2: we've got these four characters living in the house, they're
Speaker 2: not really talking about the real issues with each other.
Speaker 2: They're kind of trying to interpret each other's behaviors and movements.
Speaker 2: There's this intense, you know, unknowable quality between them. So
Speaker 2: I love that we might think that, you know, human
Speaker 2: beings are more accessible to each other than animals are
Speaker 2: to humans, but there is a core in all of
Speaker 2: us which is unknowable.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and particularly as the book lays out, particularly in crisis,
Speaker 1: there is a thing about grief and a family or
Speaker 1: any unit of people struck by a tragedy where everyone's
Speaker 1: affected differently and everyone's having to cope in different ways.
Speaker 1: That can mean closing off to one another.
Speaker 3: Yes, very much so.
Speaker 2: I mean the issue here was the circumstances of the
Speaker 2: death is accidental, unexpected, and so many of us go
Speaker 2: through life with the delusion that tomorrow will be like yesterday,
Speaker 2: or next week will be largely like you know, this week.
Speaker 2: And we have to to some degree believe that, because
Speaker 2: why would we continue doing half the things we're doing
Speaker 2: but for those people, And you know, I've had first
Speaker 2: hand experience dealing with families through my work or friends
Speaker 2: that have gone through that kind of sudden, unexpected, accidental death,
Speaker 2: and it is rocking. I remember a friend of mine
Speaker 2: saying she didn't trust the universe anymore.
Speaker 3: And so they.
Speaker 2: Also are not, as I discussed in the book, a
Speaker 2: religious family, and then are in a family of faith.
Speaker 2: They are very much a kind of family based in science, belief,
Speaker 2: and cause and effect. And so when an accident happens,
Speaker 2: what they tend to do in the aftermath that this
Speaker 2: family and gene is to look back and think, what
Speaker 2: could I have done differently? And there's a lot of
Speaker 2: shame in that, a lot of guilt in that, And
Speaker 2: that is what they're brewing in in these years after
Speaker 2: their loss, their own guilt, and they don't want to
Speaker 2: disclose it for fear of what that might mean.
Speaker 1: And also the difficulty of responsibility to others, like that
Speaker 1: sheer impossibility of being a parent while grappling with your
Speaker 1: own shame, guilt, grief, that thing about the need to
Speaker 1: have that kind of care for others and to be
Speaker 1: there for others and to be reliable to others. That
Speaker 1: absolutely stifles your character's capacity, but human beings capacity to
Speaker 1: go through their own process of grieving.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we see, you know, for instance, Jin revert
Speaker 2: to some of this what I call magical thinking that
Speaker 2: he had as as a child, like superstitious thinking that
Speaker 2: if you do this, you somehow have some control over
Speaker 2: the future. And similarly, you know, Lucy does retreat to
Speaker 2: prayer and Amy gets quite angry about that. And I think,
Speaker 2: you know, that was important to me because I've always
Speaker 2: felt a little bit envious of people of faith and
Speaker 2: people of you know, religion, because if you believe in
Speaker 2: cause and effect and you're very scientific, then it comes
Speaker 2: with this huge burden of responsibility as well, because you
Speaker 2: then the implications are that every behavior, every action has
Speaker 2: untop or unforeseen consequences, and that really comes into play
Speaker 2: when an accident happens. And that's that's a huge burden
Speaker 2: really to bear, and that's what we're seeing in this family.
Speaker 2: And so in order to try and alleviate themselves of that,
Speaker 2: they start to look to prayer or they look to
Speaker 2: more superstitious thinking. And I think we all do that
Speaker 2: on some level. There's a huge contradiction even in myself
Speaker 2: and a lot of the ways I behave.
Speaker 1: Are you superstitious?
Speaker 3: Yes, I would say so. I'm I'm admitting it.
Speaker 2: Now I might not have because.
Speaker 3: Who wants a superstitious doctor?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: But I think I do.
Speaker 1: What a superstitious doctor? What a doctor that's like, well,
Speaker 1: you've done everything right, but now I'm gonna tap this
Speaker 1: three times so they kind of walk around the building
Speaker 1: or whatever. I'm okay with that.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well that's good. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well I think you know, as a child, I was
Speaker 2: quite superstitious, and you know, you could argue that a
Speaker 2: lot of the things that we do attached to faith
Speaker 2: are a kind of form of superstition or a type
Speaker 2: of way of regaining control over the uncontrollable. And so
Speaker 2: so yeah, that's what I was trying to achieve.
Speaker 1: After the break, Melanie shares the details of her own
Speaker 1: life that inspired the Burrow And have you ever heard
Speaker 1: of narrative medicine? I hadn't. That it's crucial for understanding
Speaker 1: this book. We'll be right back. Grandmothers are a recurring
Speaker 1: thing in your work generally. You're clearly interested in grandmothers
Speaker 1: as narrative engines and as a particular type of human being.
Speaker 1: What is it about.
Speaker 2: Grandma's Well, I only had one grandmother growing up. So
Speaker 2: my mother's mother died when she was very young, at
Speaker 2: four years of age. And I think that's as it
Speaker 2: had its own impact on me and maybe even plays
Speaker 2: into this book. But my other grandmother was my Chinese grandmother,
Speaker 2: who I was actually named after, So my Chinese name,
Speaker 2: so Lyn, is actually her name. But I could not
Speaker 2: communicate with her because I don't speak Chinese and she
Speaker 2: didn't speak English, and so it was a lot of
Speaker 2: mystery associated with our relationship, and I wrote about that
Speaker 2: in a short story included in my collection Australia Day.
Speaker 3: And Now.
Speaker 2: Of course, I have my own children and they have
Speaker 2: two grandmothers, and I think it's quite a unique and
Speaker 2: special relationship there. Even in the book I took about
Speaker 2: the distance of the generation allowing something quite fresh and new.
Speaker 2: It's very different from parenting. Now, even having friends that
Speaker 2: are embarking on that relationship with their own grandchildren, they
Speaker 2: talk about, you know, how magical it is, how often
Speaker 2: he it is, because it's kind of all of the
Speaker 2: fun stuff about parenting without as much of the day
Speaker 2: to day tedium of it.
Speaker 1: That distance and closeness locked up together is such an
Speaker 1: important part of it. And it does strike me that
Speaker 1: grandparents in migrant families there's a particularly interesting thing at play,
Speaker 1: which is the kind of gulf in lived experience. So
Speaker 1: those challenges of communication, of kind of sharing a worldview
Speaker 1: or reality are kind of heightened by both generational divide
Speaker 1: and then place of living, geographical context, all of that stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very much so, And so we didn't mention the
Speaker 2: Lucy's other pair of grandparents, who are exactly that you
Speaker 2: know their Jin's parents, and there is this huge kind
Speaker 2: of golf between them. They do speak English, but kind
Speaker 2: of haltingly and culturally they're quite separated. And in the
Speaker 2: book we talk about the gifts that they buy not
Speaker 2: being you know, so welcomed by Lucy because they're often
Speaker 2: either judged to be too simple for her, or the
Speaker 2: clothes are too big because they're trying to get a
Speaker 2: lot of wear out of them, And Jin expresses some
Speaker 2: jealousy about how Lucy has a closer relationship with Pauline,
Speaker 2: who's Amy's mother in the book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Pauline is such a wonderful character. I do love her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love her too.
Speaker 1: You mentioned before your debut was a book of short
Speaker 1: stories called Australia Day. But I'm curious since then, you've
Speaker 1: written two novels, and they are both beautiful in many ways.
Speaker 1: I would say, delicate novels that take the kind of
Speaker 1: energy of a really wonderful short story and work out
Speaker 1: how to render it deeper and more complex. I'm curious
Speaker 1: about whether that's a deliberate trajectory. Have you moved away
Speaker 1: from the short story or are these boundaries fluid?
Speaker 2: I think you know when I started writing, I mistakenly
Speaker 2: thought short stories were easier to write, which, of course,
Speaker 2: as anyone who writes short stories, it's not true. They're
Speaker 2: different from the point of view of time, though they
Speaker 2: are easier to complete, and so that was good for
Speaker 2: me when I had another job. But I came to
Speaker 2: love the form. And the reason I love the form
Speaker 2: is sometimes the same reasons that people find short stories difficult,
Speaker 2: which is that they.
Speaker 3: Demand more of the reader.
Speaker 2: They expect the reader to rise up to the challenge,
Speaker 2: fell in a lot of gaps with their own imagination,
Speaker 2: and so that's hard if you're used to reading novels
Speaker 2: where everything is tied up really neatly. But once you
Speaker 2: kind of get hooked on that, then you resent reading
Speaker 2: novels that tell you everything because you like to be
Speaker 2: respected as a reader and so and I enjoy that,
Speaker 2: and so I think I have taken that forward into
Speaker 2: writing longer form.
Speaker 3: And I don't write very long forms. You know.
Speaker 2: My two books are short novels. But that's because I'm
Speaker 2: just a ruthless editor. And that is what happened with
Speaker 2: my apprenticeship through short story writing. And I love the
Speaker 2: quote from Tony Morrison that it's often what you don't
Speaker 2: write that gives what you do write its power. And
Speaker 2: I do a narrative medicine course at Melbourne Union and
Speaker 2: a student there recently talked about the negative spaces and
Speaker 2: short stories, which.
Speaker 3: I really love as well.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I've brought that across to the novels and
Speaker 2: I think that's how I'm going to practice going forward.
Speaker 1: Can you talk about the relationship for you between medicine
Speaker 1: and writing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I find them to be quite complimentary, and I
Speaker 2: think that maybe to do with me practicing in general
Speaker 2: practice rather than maybe surgery per se. But every day
Speaker 2: when I go to work and I sit down and
Speaker 2: I call someone into the room, the first thing that
Speaker 2: happens is that they.
Speaker 3: Tell me a story, the story of their illness.
Speaker 2: And a great supervisor I had in general practice a
Speaker 2: long time ago told me, look to spend some moments
Speaker 2: one day when you're not working, sitting in a medical
Speaker 2: waiting room and just imagine what those people are doing
Speaker 2: as they sit there. They are practicing what they're going
Speaker 2: to say when they sit in the chair. And of
Speaker 2: course that's true, and I've done it myself when I
Speaker 2: go to a GP practice. So words are really important,
Speaker 2: so they tell us. And that's what narrative medicine is about.
Speaker 2: It's about the patient's story meeting the doctor's story and
Speaker 2: creating something entirely new. But yeah, I've always found it
Speaker 2: to be, you know, an inspiration. I don't write about
Speaker 2: specific patients, you know, I write in the fictional space,
Speaker 2: but of.
Speaker 3: Course I draw on the insights that I gain.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't live an extraordinarily interesting life, but
Speaker 2: through my work I get to see into a lot
Speaker 2: of different lives and different experiences. And yeah, I've always
Speaker 2: brought that into my writing. It's been a privilege. But
Speaker 2: for a great source of inspiration for the writing.
Speaker 1: Well, it seems to me that you're on a daily
Speaker 1: basis seeing people at their most tender and the most vulnerable,
Speaker 1: you know, the people who are scared, people who are anxious,
Speaker 1: people who are you in pain, and that must give
Speaker 1: a particular impression of the human condition.
Speaker 2: I guess yes, And I have to remind myself sometimes that,
Speaker 2: you know, the people that are presenting to general practice
Speaker 2: are not the wider population in general. That is, when
Speaker 2: they're at their most vulnerable or unwell. But I've also
Speaker 2: had the experience where people tell me things that they
Speaker 2: said they've never told anyone else. So as a writer,
Speaker 2: that is wonderful because most of all, it's validating because
Speaker 2: I think there have been things that I've thought, or
Speaker 2: dark thoughts that I've had that then I see reflected
Speaker 2: in patients and I realize that's quite common and normal,
Speaker 2: and I can reassure them also through that process.
Speaker 1: What do you want for characters like the characters in
Speaker 1: the Burrows when you're writing, what's the relationship there?
Speaker 2: I think I am interested in complexity. I really am
Speaker 2: not interested in heroes and villains in good and bad people,
Speaker 2: because I have seen people through work who have done
Speaker 2: awful things, but I've seen them as a person, and
Speaker 2: I've seen them in a vulnerable state, and it's hard
Speaker 2: to hate that person, and it's hard to reduce them
Speaker 2: to this awful act that they've done.
Speaker 3: It's actually scary.
Speaker 2: And maybe that's why people like to keep these hero
Speaker 2: villain categories, because once you start to see the human
Speaker 2: element of these awful acts, then it's confronting for you
Speaker 2: as a fellow human being in that maybe you would
Speaker 2: be capable of doing some of these, you know, terrible things.
Speaker 1: Also, it's a weird thing that desire for empathy when
Speaker 1: we read that desire to feel like, as you say,
Speaker 1: there's a hero we can cheer for, or we can
Speaker 1: feel a little less shabby or lost ourselves.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I kind of like reading vulnerable characters because again,
Speaker 2: it makes me feel less alone in my vulnerability. So
Speaker 2: that's the impulse.
Speaker 1: One of the things that comes through again and again
Speaker 1: is that the nature of grief is it can be
Speaker 1: so inarticulate, you know, it can be so the impossibility
Speaker 1: of finding words that are kind of sufficient for it.
Speaker 1: And our relationship with animals relies on a kind of
Speaker 1: inarticulate relationship, a kind of trust and I love and
Speaker 1: then a family relies on an ability to understand one
Speaker 1: another or to talk to one another. And so part
Speaker 1: of what I love so much about The Barrows is
Speaker 1: it comes in the intersection of all those ideas that
Speaker 1: there are some things that are impossible to put to words,
Speaker 1: but there is a fundamental need to find a way
Speaker 1: to do so you're a family unit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think, without giving too much away of
Speaker 2: the in the book, you know, ultimately the family finds
Speaker 2: salvation in opening up and actually saying those difficult words
Speaker 2: to each other and actually articulating the guilt that they're
Speaker 2: all nursing around what happened. And that's another thing I
Speaker 2: think that I've learned through speaking to so many patients
Speaker 2: through general practice, is that so much of tragedy is
Speaker 2: actually in the unspoken. You know, I might see various
Speaker 2: family members from the same family and you just wish
Speaker 2: that they would talk to one another. And another thing
Speaker 2: I think I've learned is that intimacy comes from being
Speaker 2: emotionally vulnerable with each other.
Speaker 3: It's scared to make the first step, especially because.
Speaker 2: You don't know, I mean, making yourself vulnerable was always scary,
Speaker 2: and you don't know how the other person's going to react.
Speaker 2: But when an accident like this looms so large over
Speaker 2: a household, like for the Lee family, their healing can
Speaker 2: only really come once they let it all out in
Speaker 2: the open.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, I don't think it constitutes a spoiler
Speaker 1: to tell your prospective readers that they don't have to
Speaker 1: be scared of this book. But there is a book
Speaker 1: that is very much about love and tenderness and about
Speaker 1: kind of finding a way to one another through an
Speaker 1: impossible situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I recently read in the introduction to George
Speaker 2: Saunders tenth of December an interview with him where he
Speaker 2: talks about being on a flight from Chicago to Syracuse
Speaker 2: and it was a terrible flight. They flew into a
Speaker 2: flock of geese and for a moment they all believed
Speaker 2: that they would die. And George Saunders talks about for
Speaker 2: the three or four days after that that the world
Speaker 2: was the most beautiful place. Everything was suddenly imbued with
Speaker 2: this meaning, and he talks about that being the trick
Speaker 2: that if we could just maintain that, you know, that sense.
Speaker 2: But it only lasted three to four days, even for
Speaker 2: George Saunders, you see. So if there can be any
Speaker 2: silver lining to this kind of awful tragedy that happens
Speaker 2: to a family like that in the Burrow, it is that,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe it can bring that kind of meaning,
Speaker 2: gratitude you don't take things for granted.
Speaker 1: Well, the other comfort that comes out of it is
Speaker 1: if stories like that can create wonderful and enduring works
Speaker 1: of literature. And I have no doubt that's what's happened here.
Speaker 1: And I'm so excited for people to get to read
Speaker 1: this astonishing and beautiful book. Thank you for coming in.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Michael, It means so much. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Melanie Cheng's beautiful novel The Burrow is available at all
Speaker 1: good bookstores now. Before we go, I wanted to tell
Speaker 1: you what I've been reading this week, and as I
Speaker 1: flagged last week, like so much of the rest of
Speaker 1: the English language world, I've been reading the new Sally Rooney.
Speaker 1: I'm not yet finished, but I need to say something.
Speaker 1: People need to shut up. Some weird backlash happens when
Speaker 1: an artist and their work are hyped, and, as is
Speaker 1: so often the case, so little of it has anything
Speaker 1: to do with the art in question. I am having
Speaker 1: the best time in Rooney's very capable hands. She's funny, smart,
Speaker 1: so skilled at building well realized characters, grappling with very
Speaker 1: real dilemmas and crises. She writes sex well story well.
Speaker 1: She is the real deal. The book is called Intermezzo,
Speaker 1: and I encourage you to read it on its own terms.
Speaker 1: I think it's very good. You can find it and
Speaker 1: a whole lot of other books that aren't by Sally
Speaker 1: Rooney at your favorite independent bookstore. That's it for this
Speaker 1: week's show. If you enjoyed it, please tell your friends
Speaker 1: and rate and review us. It helps a lot. Next
Speaker 1: week I'm read this. I'm going to be joined in
Speaker 1: the studio by one of Australia's best chefs, the owner
Speaker 1: of Melbourne institution, Attica ben Shuri. His intimate new novel
Speaker 1: Uses for Obsession is a modern classic of the genre.
Speaker 1: Read This is produced and edited by Clara Ames. The
Speaker 1: show is mixed by Travis Evans with original compositions by
Speaker 1: Zolden Fetcher. Thanks for listening and see you next week.