WEBVTT - ‘Why are you called crazy f**k?’: Gary and Andrew Pt.2

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<v Speaker 1>The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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<v Speaker 1>Detective sy a side of life. The average person is

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<v Speaker 1>never exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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<v Speaker 1>For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what I did for a living. I was a

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<v Speaker 1>homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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<v Speaker 1>The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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<v Speaker 1>from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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<v Speaker 1>and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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<v Speaker 1>of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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<v Speaker 1>no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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<v Speaker 1>Join me now as I take you into this world.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, we're back with more questions for Gary from

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<v Speaker 2>the fans. Gary. Here's one from Brian Gary. Is it

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<v Speaker 2>true that you only got into podcasting because you wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to show people that you actually do know how to

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<v Speaker 2>legally record people speaking.

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<v Speaker 1>I like there is an irony to it, but I

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<v Speaker 1>lost my career in policing because I was recording conversations,

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<v Speaker 1>and now I do it for a living. I've got

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<v Speaker 1>to say I still maintain I wasn't capable of recording

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<v Speaker 1>recording conversations on my phone about someone showing me how

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<v Speaker 1>to but.

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<v Speaker 2>The irony you got a whole team.

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<v Speaker 1>Lookt I used to record on this a telephone and

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<v Speaker 1>now look what I've got camera. Yeah, yeah, I learned

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<v Speaker 1>from my mistakes.

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously. That was one of the questions I wrote in there.

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<v Speaker 2>I pretended to be one of the fans, just for

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<v Speaker 2>a bit of fun. But here's a real one from Jade.

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<v Speaker 2>Why were you called crazy fuck? I heard you referred

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<v Speaker 2>to this on the William Tyrrell podcast. Was that a

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<v Speaker 2>nickname of yours? Yes? It was. I see that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I see it as a term of endearment. Well

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<v Speaker 1>that's how I tried to explain to my kids when

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<v Speaker 1>that first became public. Outside the people that called me

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<v Speaker 1>crazy fuck that I worked with, and I don't know why,

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<v Speaker 1>just the irony of it. I suppose I was so

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<v Speaker 1>straight and normal. But my good mate Jason, he takes

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<v Speaker 1>great pride in initiating me crazy fucking. You know, if

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<v Speaker 1>you get a nickname, you can't react to it because

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<v Speaker 1>if you react to it, and he could see that

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<v Speaker 1>it irked me a little bit, so he's stuck with it,

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<v Speaker 1>and he'd introduced me when we go to a homicide,

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<v Speaker 1>a fresh homicide, this is a boss, crazy fucking roll

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<v Speaker 1>his eyes and give it to me for a bit

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<v Speaker 1>of laughter.

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<v Speaker 2>But on Underbelly.

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<v Speaker 1>It came out in Underbelly and I'm trying to explain

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<v Speaker 1>to my kids, why why do they call you crazy fuck?

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm going, ah, they're just joking.

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<v Speaker 2>But look, I think we need somebody in that was

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<v Speaker 2>involved with the actual generation of this name to see

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<v Speaker 2>whether there's a backstory here that you're not telling us.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the backstory is Jason always reckons, this is funny.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the dynamics of a homicide team, and it

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<v Speaker 1>was some of my favorite times in policing. I'd just

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<v Speaker 1>become a sergeant. You've got to pick a team. I've

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<v Speaker 1>got Jason and he was a mate though work with

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<v Speaker 1>on barable and a funny guy, and he'd played the

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<v Speaker 1>I'd be the straight guy to he's funny guy. He

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<v Speaker 1>always reckons, he's funnier than I am, and I gave

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<v Speaker 1>a more situational humor than you are. But he was

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<v Speaker 1>a loudmouth. I'm the introvert. And then we had Nigel,

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<v Speaker 1>who was a good mate of ours. Nigel was a

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<v Speaker 1>technical skills. We knew that because they're just bringing in

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<v Speaker 1>all these computers and I'm saying that Jason, we need

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<v Speaker 1>someone that understands computers, and he's gone, what about Nigel?

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<v Speaker 1>Perfect name. So we'd rock up and this is serious.

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<v Speaker 1>At the first briefing the homicide, we'd rock up and

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<v Speaker 1>the team would be introduced. This is the boss. Crazy fuck,

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<v Speaker 1>he's a serious one. Jason wud be saying, I'm the

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<v Speaker 1>funny one. I do the humor, I've got the personality,

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<v Speaker 1>and Nigel's a nerd. And that was a breakup of

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<v Speaker 1>the breakup of the team, but it was a perfect

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<v Speaker 1>We complemented each other.

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<v Speaker 2>Were you happy with how you were trayed in Underbelly?

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously they went for an actor, Matte Nabel that's much

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<v Speaker 2>better looking than you. Obviously, so they've done you a

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<v Speaker 2>solid there. But you what do you say? Well, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>just saying, come on, they've done you.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, all right. It's a good style of a blake.

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<v Speaker 1>Even my mum said she prefers Matt the meat. She

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<v Speaker 1>was watching it. Look, Matt, Matt is a really good

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<v Speaker 1>made of mind. We've come close from that. We met

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<v Speaker 1>before the Underbelly thing, and the writers put us together

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<v Speaker 1>and we just clicked right from the start. And good

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<v Speaker 1>friend really talented, Like it's just he's an inspirational type

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<v Speaker 1>of guy, and we catch up a fair bit. It's

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<v Speaker 1>funny when I catch up with Matt and when the

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<v Speaker 1>Underbelly series was playing, or around that time or shortly after,

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<v Speaker 1>we'd be out for a drink and people had come

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<v Speaker 1>up to him and start talking about how they love

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<v Speaker 1>the character he portrays in Underbelly, Gary Jubilin And I'm

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<v Speaker 1>just sitting there as just this mister anonymous, just nobody

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<v Speaker 1>cares about you back and then when they walk away again,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm the fucking real GARYT not you. But look, it

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<v Speaker 1>was good and it sort of.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm proud of.

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<v Speaker 1>What we did on the called the Underbelly Investigation. It

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<v Speaker 1>was Strikeforce Tuno, but it was a big investigation ram

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<v Speaker 1>for ten years. We busted our asses on it and

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<v Speaker 1>we got some really good results. I'm proud of it,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'd like to think it inspires people, Look, look

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<v Speaker 1>what you can do in the policing. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>they represented the nuances of an investigation the highs, the

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<v Speaker 1>layers of pressures that sort of come with that type

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<v Speaker 1>of investigation.

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<v Speaker 2>And that case evolved with the murder of Terry falcon I. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to ask you about that, because when you're

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<v Speaker 2>investigating the murder of someone who is a drug dealer,

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<v Speaker 2>or even versus someone who's civilian, or even in the

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<v Speaker 2>murder of a kid dies, it affect how passionate you

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<v Speaker 2>are about the investigation.

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<v Speaker 1>Look when you look at the Terrys, Terry's situation, he

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<v Speaker 1>had served time in prison, he was on day release.

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<v Speaker 1>He was abducted by people purporting to be the cops,

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<v Speaker 1>dressed as detectives and in uniform, and then his body

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<v Speaker 1>was cut up and he was hung up on a

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<v Speaker 1>hook and his body was cut up, his teeth, foot

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<v Speaker 1>pulled out, and it was a horrendous crime. No one

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<v Speaker 1>deserves to die like that. I know his family, and

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<v Speaker 1>you speak to his family. Yeah, dad had his faults,

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<v Speaker 1>but they loved him. And so it's not hard to

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<v Speaker 1>get motivation. And I think sometimes people assume, ah, well,

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<v Speaker 1>it's just bad guys killing bad guys. What I found

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<v Speaker 1>in organized crime that if you let it run too long,

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<v Speaker 1>innocent people get caught up in it when there's the

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<v Speaker 1>biky walls and stuff like that, so you can still

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<v Speaker 1>go after it with the same passion.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean you see that the news all the

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<v Speaker 2>time now with the Middle East and gang shooting each other,

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<v Speaker 2>and you're like, oh, well, if it's just got, if

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<v Speaker 2>it's just internal, who cares.

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<v Speaker 1>And look another way? And this is the cops side

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<v Speaker 1>of me looking at it too. You put us in

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<v Speaker 1>charge of an investigation like that, you uncover other crimes.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a win win situation. You're solving the murder, but

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<v Speaker 1>you're also putting people out of action that otherwise would

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<v Speaker 1>have kept kept going.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, obviously everyone's glad that I'm not a cop myself,

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<v Speaker 2>including myself, but I would find if I was in

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<v Speaker 2>charge of investigating the murder of a pedophile. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>think I'd probably feel like I'm phoning it in versus

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<v Speaker 2>if it was a missing child or something like that. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I do understand that, and it must be cops would

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<v Speaker 2>have that mentality, have that mentality.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think you said a bad precedent. If you go, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>well we'll put resources in there. I see it, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'll flip it a little bit proper. Resources weren't put

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<v Speaker 1>into the bar of all investigation because the three Aboriginal kids,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, the families told me people don't care.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't believe them, but I believe it. Believe it

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<v Speaker 1>now the time. Then you look at the whim turial matter,

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<v Speaker 1>which obviously I'm heavily linked to, and the resources that

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<v Speaker 1>get put in there. I think we've got to look

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<v Speaker 1>at it from a policing point of view. All lives,

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<v Speaker 1>all lives matters. And if you let the gangsters start

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<v Speaker 1>shooting themselves, see how it's become more brazen. Before the

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<v Speaker 1>gangsters used to disappear like Terry. Terry was meant to

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<v Speaker 1>disappear and his body wasn't meant to come to the surface.

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<v Speaker 2>Now it's broad daylight and a car park.

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<v Speaker 1>And they're making statements and yeah, with that, it's only

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<v Speaker 1>a matter of time before innocent people are caught up

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<v Speaker 1>in it. So you can't have that sort of lawlessness.

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<v Speaker 1>But I do get what you're saying. And people when

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<v Speaker 1>there are children involved, like children make it harder. That's

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<v Speaker 1>heavier because it's just such a sad tragedy. Someone's anyone

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<v Speaker 1>losing their life. But when young child loss, loss of innocence,

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<v Speaker 1>life before them, and that life's taken away. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>tragic situation.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to ask you about strike Force Tuno because

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<v Speaker 2>I had to look it up. Tuno is the vegan

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<v Speaker 2>alternative for tuna, That's what it is. Yeah, who's coming

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<v Speaker 2>up with these shit stroke Force names?

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<v Speaker 1>You don't believe in Vegan?

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<v Speaker 2>I think there was another one. You're involved in, strike

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<v Speaker 2>Force Roseanne. Yeah, And I'm just my concern is there's

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<v Speaker 2>too many ship strike force names. What about strike force

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<v Speaker 2>leaping panther Okay, like strike Force roaring line or a

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<v Speaker 2>rampaging elephant from a crim And I'm like, hold on,

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<v Speaker 2>oh no, I'll be investigated by strike Force. It gives

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<v Speaker 2>a little fish.

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<v Speaker 1>I know what you're saying. But the very thing that

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<v Speaker 1>you're saying is the reason why we had to take

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<v Speaker 1>it away from the police. So their random name, so

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<v Speaker 1>it's on the computer. Then you log in, you're setting

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<v Speaker 1>up a strike force, and a name spits out the

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<v Speaker 1>reason why they had to take it away from that,

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<v Speaker 1>because the raging panther like Strikeforce would be you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you can't, you can't.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just too many of you. Yeah, it's too confusing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if they are after you the magic mushroom, you

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<v Speaker 1>can't call Strike Force Magic Mushroom cops. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>there was one that was Operation Target and the crook

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<v Speaker 1>got shot and killed. Now that doesn't look good when

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<v Speaker 1>you're in the coroner, scot how did Well? It wasn't.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just a pure coincidence. So that's how the names

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<v Speaker 1>I always because you've got to type them so much too.

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<v Speaker 1>I like the short ones, like I like Tuno because

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<v Speaker 1>it's you've got to type that name so many times.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, so it's randomly generated. But who's created this algorithm?

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<v Speaker 2>Because it seems like that there's room for a happy

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<v Speaker 2>middle ground where they it's out a little bit tougher.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you know how you complain to the governor at

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<v Speaker 1>the prison, Maybe maybe you could pull the pull the

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<v Speaker 1>leather into the police commission.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to just do you guys are solid because

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<v Speaker 2>if you're there trying to rouse the troops like, hey, guys,

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<v Speaker 2>this is a very serious investigation. Strike Force Tuno, do

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<v Speaker 2>you reckon?

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<v Speaker 1>That's why it took us ten years to catch those guys,

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<v Speaker 1>because we got Strike Force Tunos after you and they've gone.

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<v Speaker 2>The excited to get up of the morning. Yeah, what

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<v Speaker 2>are you working on, babe?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, strike force Tuna. Maybe the tone, but yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>well take your point. We might put that in the

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<v Speaker 1>suggestion box.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's a question from Lisa. If you had to choose

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<v Speaker 2>any detective to solve a murder, who would you choose

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<v Speaker 2>and why? I guess it doesn't say whether they have

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<v Speaker 2>to be real or fiction.

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<v Speaker 1>Look, I'll pick the real ones. There's some detectives that

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<v Speaker 1>I have utmost respect for mentors that I had that

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<v Speaker 1>I worked with.

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<v Speaker 2>Paul Jacob.

0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:32.160
<v Speaker 1>I served him the apprenticeship under him. He taught me, taught

0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.400
<v Speaker 1>me so much and I know, like the passion and

0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:39.480
<v Speaker 1>dedication that he has on my when he's on an investigation.

0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.600
<v Speaker 1>I can't emphasize how much how much he taught me.

0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Pam Young, who I work within homicide for years but

0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:52.439
<v Speaker 1>also lived with for years, and she was people ask

0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:54.839
<v Speaker 1>who's the toughest copy New South Wales? And I gave

0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:57.920
<v Speaker 1>Pam because she was tough mentally in that and she

0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:00.960
<v Speaker 1>was smart and she would be good one to be

0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:06.880
<v Speaker 1>on the investigation. Charlie Berzina, homicide detective from Victoria, a

0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:11.480
<v Speaker 1>fairly high profile He's another one that when I say

0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.160
<v Speaker 1>I've worked with Charlie. We didn't work so much when

0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:17.000
<v Speaker 1>we were in the cops because he's down in Victoria.

0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:19.199
<v Speaker 1>But we've worked on the had a look at a

0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:21.680
<v Speaker 1>couple of investigations since we've been out of the cops.

0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.599
<v Speaker 1>And his attention to detail, he's passionate, and yeah, his

0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:29.840
<v Speaker 1>empathy for the victims. They're the type of people I

0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:33.199
<v Speaker 1>want on the investigation. And there's some Look, there's some

0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:35.120
<v Speaker 1>great cops still in there.

0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Now.

0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:40.200
<v Speaker 1>What worries me that you learn? It's every day I

0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.280
<v Speaker 1>came to the homicide I learned, and the last day

0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:45.600
<v Speaker 1>I was there, I'm learning, don't record a conversation on

0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:49.480
<v Speaker 1>your telephone. Who would have thought, But you're learning all

0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.719
<v Speaker 1>the time. You need good mentors and they create good detectives.

0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.440
<v Speaker 1>But they're the type of people that I want, and

0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.880
<v Speaker 1>people that care, people that genuinely care and roll this

0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:00.840
<v Speaker 1>leaves up and get the job done.

0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would.

0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:06.000
<v Speaker 1>I would joke sometimes that give me a detective, destroy

0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.280
<v Speaker 1>their personal life and then you've got them fully committed

0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:09.760
<v Speaker 1>and not worried about anything else.

0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.880
<v Speaker 2>But having said that's the recruiter post.

0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:15.680
<v Speaker 1>I think that, Yeah, you're not a true detective until

0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:19.200
<v Speaker 1>you've had a divorce. Having said that, there's some great

0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:21.560
<v Speaker 1>detectives that have been able to do their work because

0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.800
<v Speaker 1>they've been in good relationships too, So it's give and take.

0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:27.120
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, we used to joke a joke about that,

0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:29.800
<v Speaker 1>you're not really a detective until your divorce.

0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:32.000
<v Speaker 2>You're talking about these hot shots that kind of come in,

0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.680
<v Speaker 2>but then they lose they lose attention, they want to

0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.079
<v Speaker 2>go onto the next thing in a short time frame.

0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:40.840
<v Speaker 2>How do you when a case is kind of dragging out,

0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:45.040
<v Speaker 2>how do you maintain the focus and the passion for it. Well,

0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:46.719
<v Speaker 2>there's not a lot of people that do.

0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.199
<v Speaker 1>That's why I look for those slow burners the ones

0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:53.160
<v Speaker 1>that do, And I get frustrated with people that there

0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.040
<v Speaker 1>for the good times, and the good times at the

0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.400
<v Speaker 1>early stage is the exciting part of getting the breakthroughs

0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.800
<v Speaker 1>and all that, and then when the gone, they want

0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.720
<v Speaker 1>to walk away, and they're the people I don't respect

0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.240
<v Speaker 1>and the people I get frustrated with. And because of

0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.280
<v Speaker 1>some of the investigations I've had, they've been very long term,

0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.960
<v Speaker 1>Like I'm doing short term ones in between, but long

0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.280
<v Speaker 1>term investigations and the ones that stick with those long

0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.520
<v Speaker 1>term investigations. They're the ones that have got my total respect,

0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:22.800
<v Speaker 1>because there's not much reward when you're like the Falcon,

0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.440
<v Speaker 1>the one that was ten years, like ten years, you know,

0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:30.360
<v Speaker 1>short term satisfaction. You think, okay, start here, it's ten

0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:32.560
<v Speaker 1>years down the track before we get together a result.

0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:34.960
<v Speaker 1>You got to burn, and there's a slow burn, and

0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:37.080
<v Speaker 1>you've got to be committed. You've got to be focused,

0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:38.520
<v Speaker 1>and you've got to believe in what you're doing.

0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:41.960
<v Speaker 2>I think there's probably another detective you did lift or

0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:48.840
<v Speaker 2>leave off that wish list, which is my mum, Ronnie Hamilton.

0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:54.240
<v Speaker 2>Would have been a great addition. Right. There's another question

0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.640
<v Speaker 2>here from Elaine Hi. Gary, another question from me. You

0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.000
<v Speaker 2>mentioned a few times on your one of your favorit

0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.720
<v Speaker 2>of books as mind Hunter by John Douglas. Can you

0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:05.720
<v Speaker 2>share any of your other favorite.

0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:10.760
<v Speaker 1>Books that mind Hunter? Explain why I enjoyed mind Hunt.

0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:11.840
<v Speaker 2>I've seen the TV series.

0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well we had, yeah, you know the female leading

0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:19.320
<v Speaker 1>that show, doctor An Burgess, fascinating lady and we're having

0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:22.960
<v Speaker 1>her on the podcast later. But John Douglas and the

0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:25.320
<v Speaker 1>mind Hunter, and I don't think it in the mind

0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.640
<v Speaker 1>Hunter TV series it was credited with John Hunter, a

0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:32.240
<v Speaker 1>different different name, but this was the start of criminal

0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.840
<v Speaker 1>profiling in the FBI early days, and they learned that

0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 1>by speaking to serial killers and finding out what made

0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:42.040
<v Speaker 1>them tick. I read that book and my mentor that

0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:44.840
<v Speaker 1>I attribute to be my mentor, Paul Jacob. I was

0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.600
<v Speaker 1>re reading the book when I was a young homicide detecting.

0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:49.760
<v Speaker 1>We'd go there and I'd be talking on the way

0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:52.240
<v Speaker 1>of the crime scene, what would John Douglas do here?

0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:56.000
<v Speaker 1>And just had some fascinating insights into the way approach

0:15:56.560 --> 0:16:00.440
<v Speaker 1>approached homicide. In regards to other books I read, I

0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.680
<v Speaker 1>used to read read fiction, but I've sort of gone off,

0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:08.360
<v Speaker 1>gone off fiction books and non fictions. I like memoirs,

0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:12.240
<v Speaker 1>that type of thing. I like to take something from

0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.000
<v Speaker 1>a book, learn a little bit. I don't overload on

0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:19.280
<v Speaker 1>crime books. Sometimes I read them, sometimes I don't. But

0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.480
<v Speaker 1>when you're living at day to day, it's not really

0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.200
<v Speaker 1>the relaxation. So I like a little bit of escapism.

0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:27.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm finding it funny because I had a book come

0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.240
<v Speaker 2>out in August and it's in bookstores and at the

0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:34.000
<v Speaker 2>airport seeing my face in the true crime section, and

0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.040
<v Speaker 2>it's all these murder stories and it's just some stupid

0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.520
<v Speaker 2>story about a guy who was a mushroom dealer for

0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:39.280
<v Speaker 2>fifteen years.

0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:44.120
<v Speaker 1>It's okay, well, I'll confess to I look to see

0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.520
<v Speaker 1>if my book is in the airport.

0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:48.520
<v Speaker 2>You've got to check, Gary, you go, you got to check.

0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:49.480
<v Speaker 2>You pick it up and look.

0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:53.120
<v Speaker 1>I was standing behind someone that was flicking through through

0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:54.600
<v Speaker 1>my book and then they put it back, and I

0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:58.160
<v Speaker 1>felt like I wanted to object. I object put it back,

0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.360
<v Speaker 1>but no, congratulations, you've got got the book out, Thank you.

0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.000
<v Speaker 1>I'll look for I was probably just looking for my book.

0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.200
<v Speaker 2>Not one of these days I'll be sitting next to yours. Gary.

0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:09.679
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, keep an eye out, but they won't ever

0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.320
<v Speaker 2>want anyone needs a stocking filler. The Profound Benefits of

0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:15.720
<v Speaker 2>a stint in prison. It's funny seeing it because sometimes

0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:19.600
<v Speaker 2>it's in true crime, sometimes it's in nonfictional biography, but

0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.399
<v Speaker 2>I make it could also be in the how to section.

0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.119
<v Speaker 2>I think as long as they put it in fiction.

0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:26.600
<v Speaker 2>A couple of my mates have been putting it in

0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:32.040
<v Speaker 2>the fiction section just to piss take me, but oh,

0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:34.520
<v Speaker 2>here we go. Yeah, this is from Alisha. It's a

0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:42.600
<v Speaker 2>two parter. So Alisha's brother has been murdered, and questions,

0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:44.480
<v Speaker 2>how do I have faith that the police will find

0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:45.359
<v Speaker 2>my brother's killer.

0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:50.760
<v Speaker 1>It's a question that gets us a lot, and since

0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.080
<v Speaker 1>I've left the police, the amount of calls I get

0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:57.000
<v Speaker 1>from people that were concerned about is this being investigated properly?

0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.960
<v Speaker 1>And that Sometimes I'll have a deep dive into it

0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:05.240
<v Speaker 1>and make suggestions. Other times I say that the families,

0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:09.720
<v Speaker 1>your responsibility for it is just how the police you deserve.

0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:12.960
<v Speaker 1>The police are there to serve the public. If you've

0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.400
<v Speaker 1>reported a crime, what's happening with that investigation? Don't let

0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:19.480
<v Speaker 1>them bullshit you and fob you off. You've got the

0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:21.960
<v Speaker 1>right to know. I think the police are becoming more

0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.840
<v Speaker 1>aware of that in regards to that than if she's listening,

0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry that you're going through that. I would make

0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:33.000
<v Speaker 1>contact with the person that's running the investigation, got responsibility

0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:36.399
<v Speaker 1>for the investigation and ask for updates.

0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:39.960
<v Speaker 2>What's the training that you guys get in terms of

0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:43.000
<v Speaker 2>the messaging around that to set expectations because there's a

0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:47.240
<v Speaker 2>huge burden on you in terms of what you say

0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:47.560
<v Speaker 2>to them.

0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:51.280
<v Speaker 1>We've got I know in New South Wales and I'm

0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:55.840
<v Speaker 1>assuming in other law enforcement areas or other states. Quite

0:18:55.880 --> 0:19:00.440
<v Speaker 1>often you have a victim liaison officer appointed on the strikeforce. Yeah,

0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:02.520
<v Speaker 1>if you're on my strike force, I might be the boss.

0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:04.439
<v Speaker 1>I can't speak to the victim all the time. I

0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:07.440
<v Speaker 1>might the point you keep the families informed, and that's

0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:11.119
<v Speaker 1>the point of contact. I can't stress enough for you know,

0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:15.680
<v Speaker 1>hopefully if there's any police listening to this, how much

0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.960
<v Speaker 1>it's respected by the victims. If you make yourself available,

0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:21.840
<v Speaker 1>like here's my phone number, you contact me anytime and

0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.159
<v Speaker 1>we can talk through it. These are grieving people.

0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:24.920
<v Speaker 2>You've got to know.

0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.080
<v Speaker 1>If you're going to be responsible for investigating the murder

0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:31.840
<v Speaker 1>of someone, put yourself out there and make yourself.

0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:33.639
<v Speaker 2>Available to the people.

0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:37.200
<v Speaker 1>But in regards to that situation, i'd make contact and

0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.399
<v Speaker 1>just ask for updates. I think that's you're not asking

0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.119
<v Speaker 1>too much. One thing Andrew that I was taught and

0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:47.440
<v Speaker 1>it was Courtney topics as parents. Courtney was shot by

0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:50.760
<v Speaker 1>police and that was a tragic situation. She was going

0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:54.320
<v Speaker 1>through a mental health episode and walk out of Hungry

0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.480
<v Speaker 1>Jack's carrying a knife and she was shot and killed

0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:01.320
<v Speaker 1>by police. I was in charge of running that investigation.

0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:05.840
<v Speaker 1>A critical incident investigation to see if it was justified.

0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:10.560
<v Speaker 1>And I spoke to the family initially and I left

0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:12.639
<v Speaker 1>them my number, and then it was a couple of

0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:16.280
<v Speaker 1>months later they've phoned up and they've unleashed on me.

0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:19.040
<v Speaker 1>The grandfather is unleashed on. We haven't heard from you

0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:22.320
<v Speaker 1>where my granddaughter's been killed. You haven't spoken the family.

0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:26.280
<v Speaker 1>And I apologized profusely and said, look, you had my number.

0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:29.040
<v Speaker 1>I didn't want to phone you. We're working on it.

0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:32.000
<v Speaker 1>It's not a cover up, we're working on it. And

0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:35.760
<v Speaker 1>I thought you'd contacted me. I felt so bad about it.

0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:37.639
<v Speaker 1>I got in the car and drove out to their place.

0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:39.879
<v Speaker 1>It was on the weekend. Apologize, sat down in the

0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:42.440
<v Speaker 1>kitchen with them, and they told me how upset they were,

0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.199
<v Speaker 1>and they made the point that we don't deal with

0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:48.520
<v Speaker 1>the police a lot, and well, we never deal with

0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:51.680
<v Speaker 1>the police, and this was the first interaction we've had

0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:53.440
<v Speaker 1>with the police, and the police have shot and killed

0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:56.760
<v Speaker 1>our daughter, and we didn't think we could actually pick

0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:00.200
<v Speaker 1>the phone up and phone the detective inspector. And I

0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:04.320
<v Speaker 1>was embarrassed from my misunderstanding.

0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:04.160
<v Speaker 2>Of the situation.

0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.080
<v Speaker 1>And it taught me a lot that the public don't

0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:09.520
<v Speaker 1>think they can trouble the police. But I'm saying you

0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:11.480
<v Speaker 1>can trouble the police. They're public servants.

0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:14.040
<v Speaker 2>There's the second partner's question from Elisia, which was, how

0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:16.640
<v Speaker 2>can my family grieve without having answers as to why

0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:18.880
<v Speaker 2>my brother was killed? I guess does that go back

0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:21.359
<v Speaker 2>to having that commerson calling the police and having that

0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:22.440
<v Speaker 2>conversation as well.

0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:28.000
<v Speaker 1>It's keeping contact with the police and find out what's happening.

0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:31.600
<v Speaker 1>I use the word closure once when I was talking

0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:35.520
<v Speaker 1>to a family member in homicide and they jumped on

0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:37.760
<v Speaker 1>me and said, this doesn't give this closure. That you

0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:41.320
<v Speaker 1>don't get closure from murder. So I've taken that word

0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:44.160
<v Speaker 1>out of the narrative that if I'm speaking to we'll

0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:48.360
<v Speaker 1>get your closure. I understand that they want answers, and

0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:51.600
<v Speaker 1>it's very hard to think you can't have answers. I

0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:54.119
<v Speaker 1>think they can get some solace in the fact if

0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:57.639
<v Speaker 1>they know the police have done everything possible. I can't

0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:01.240
<v Speaker 1>imagine how family feels if they well, I can imagine

0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:03.879
<v Speaker 1>because I've seen it time and time again, families that

0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:06.840
<v Speaker 1>I've dealt with where the police haven't done everything possible

0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:09.159
<v Speaker 1>to find their loved one and it infuriates them, it

0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:15.000
<v Speaker 1>upsets them, it keeps that pain running. So the reality

0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:17.400
<v Speaker 1>of the world is that not every murder will be solved.

0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:20.199
<v Speaker 1>But if you know that the people responsible for finding

0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:23.720
<v Speaker 1>out who's murthered you love one have done everything humanly possible,

0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:26.600
<v Speaker 1>it makes it that little bit easier. I think so.

0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:29.560
<v Speaker 1>And the pain that people go through when they can't

0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:32.600
<v Speaker 1>find the bodies of their loved one. And I've seen

0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:36.800
<v Speaker 1>that Colin Walker, one of the Bearable Children, we haven't

0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:42.200
<v Speaker 1>found her body, and that traumatizes thirty almost thirty years

0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:46.880
<v Speaker 1>down the track, still traumatizing, traumatizing the family, Matthew Levison's

0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:49.680
<v Speaker 1>family for ten years. On weekends they go to the

0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:52.920
<v Speaker 1>National Park with a pick and shovel and just dig

0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:55.800
<v Speaker 1>around the National Park looking for the body. That's the

0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:57.280
<v Speaker 1>type of pain we're talking about.

0:22:57.400 --> 0:22:59.880
<v Speaker 2>So, yeah, you can't want to know, Yeah.

0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:04.119
<v Speaker 1>You want that want that understanding of what happens. So

0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:08.359
<v Speaker 1>if police understand the impact, I think they'll do the

0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:10.800
<v Speaker 1>right job. You've got to have empathy. I think that's

0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:13.760
<v Speaker 1>a and all the good detectives that I know. And

0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:15.560
<v Speaker 1>it's funny when I sit down and speak to people

0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:17.400
<v Speaker 1>I look up to and they talk. You know, what's

0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:21.200
<v Speaker 1>a trade of a good detective empathy And it's a

0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:23.280
<v Speaker 1>simple thing, but it's so important.

0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:25.320
<v Speaker 2>Sure, but I think you know a lot of people.

0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:27.840
<v Speaker 2>You get into the police force and you might sign

0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:30.160
<v Speaker 2>up through a job, but then you don't realize that

0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:32.560
<v Speaker 2>all these other bits are the moving parts of it.

0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:35.920
<v Speaker 2>You know, you're almost trying to be a counselor or

0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:38.560
<v Speaker 2>a therapist on the side actually trying to catch the killer.

0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:42.560
<v Speaker 1>Well that and I've seen people that have gone too

0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:44.760
<v Speaker 1>far that way, Like I've had people that have been

0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:48.720
<v Speaker 1>what the families want. I think they want a hard

0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:52.800
<v Speaker 1>ass homicide detectives that's going to go go for the killer.

0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:54.879
<v Speaker 1>And I've had to pull some people back that they

0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:58.880
<v Speaker 1>get too emotionally involved with the family. And you want

0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:01.119
<v Speaker 1>to help that family. You work as hard as you

0:24:01.160 --> 0:24:03.560
<v Speaker 1>can to find the killer that will bring comfort. So

0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:06.000
<v Speaker 1>that it's that fine line. But you've got to keep

0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:08.199
<v Speaker 1>the lines of communication open because there's a lot of

0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:11.359
<v Speaker 1>trust that families put in you if you're investigating a murder.

0:24:11.359 --> 0:24:14.760
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, you're not there to be a social worker.

0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:17.440
<v Speaker 1>You've got to be ruthless in the way that you

0:24:17.880 --> 0:24:20.000
<v Speaker 1>go to solve the solve the crime.

0:24:21.000 --> 0:24:23.600
<v Speaker 2>All this stuff you're talking about with with wind Hunter,

0:24:23.760 --> 0:24:28.640
<v Speaker 2>and there's obviously huge growth in understanding criminal psychology. Where

0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:31.920
<v Speaker 2>are the are there areas that are kind of the

0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:36.960
<v Speaker 2>new ground in terms of policing, that are the hot

0:24:37.000 --> 0:24:40.960
<v Speaker 2>the hot topics. I mean, yeah, I don't even know how.

0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:44.000
<v Speaker 2>If I was still drug dealing now, it would be

0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:48.960
<v Speaker 2>so much harder because there's no ATMs where well, who's

0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:50.400
<v Speaker 2>paying cash for drugs anymore?

0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:54.560
<v Speaker 1>I've wondered. I've wondered that because I wouldn't know about

0:24:54.560 --> 0:24:58.000
<v Speaker 1>the drug industry, but I've often wondered, like, how do

0:24:58.040 --> 0:25:00.679
<v Speaker 1>you go score from your dealer? Do you have a

0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:01.240
<v Speaker 1>card machine?

0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:02.840
<v Speaker 2>Because I don't want to leave it it's getting hard

0:25:02.880 --> 0:25:05.320
<v Speaker 2>or four years ago, so I know, now, what would

0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:07.520
<v Speaker 2>you do? Yeah, you'd have to have a square reader

0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:09.720
<v Speaker 2>plus machine. But there's so too much for a paper trailer.

0:25:09.720 --> 0:25:14.119
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, but everything, everything leaves a trail, like

0:25:14.560 --> 0:25:17.359
<v Speaker 1>it really does. I get in the car to go

0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:19.560
<v Speaker 1>to the gym in the morning, the phone's telling me

0:25:19.600 --> 0:25:21.639
<v Speaker 1>how far I'm away from the place I'm going to.

0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:26.000
<v Speaker 1>And then yesterday I got in the car and normally

0:25:26.080 --> 0:25:29.440
<v Speaker 1>I go to a licensed premises on that particular day.

0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:32.840
<v Speaker 1>It said, I'm five minutes away from this particular particular place,

0:25:33.160 --> 0:25:35.520
<v Speaker 1>and I'm thinking, oh god, I got to check this phone.

0:25:35.720 --> 0:25:38.080
<v Speaker 2>There was an amazing story a couple of years ago.

0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:40.119
<v Speaker 2>I think it was in like the Manly Daily. There

0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:42.120
<v Speaker 2>was a woman who followed he a GPS and drove

0:25:42.200 --> 0:25:46.239
<v Speaker 2>like right off a wharf. I think we're trusting too

0:25:46.280 --> 0:25:47.200
<v Speaker 2>much in techniclo.

0:25:46.960 --> 0:25:49.720
<v Speaker 1>Well, we got to We've gotta wind it back. But yeah,

0:25:50.400 --> 0:25:52.800
<v Speaker 1>I think for being a crook, it's going to be hard.

0:25:53.080 --> 0:25:55.760
<v Speaker 1>And we're policing, you need to be one step ahead

0:25:55.760 --> 0:25:58.560
<v Speaker 1>of head of the crooks because quite often the crooks

0:25:59.119 --> 0:26:01.520
<v Speaker 1>changed their m and if we can get to get

0:26:01.520 --> 0:26:03.880
<v Speaker 1>ahead of them. Look look at that the phone sting

0:26:04.080 --> 0:26:06.040
<v Speaker 1>that generated from America.

0:26:07.440 --> 0:26:12.280
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, that happened. The ANIM takedown happened the exact

0:26:12.280 --> 0:26:14.359
<v Speaker 2>same day that I got arrested. And so when I

0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:17.159
<v Speaker 2>was in prison, people thought that I was a much

0:26:17.200 --> 0:26:19.399
<v Speaker 2>bigger dealer than I was because they thought that I

0:26:19.440 --> 0:26:21.800
<v Speaker 2>was part of the ANIM takedown. Right, that would have

0:26:21.880 --> 0:26:25.240
<v Speaker 2>given you some street credit. It was just funny timing.

0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:27.840
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, for anyone doesn't know, Yeah, there was this

0:26:28.520 --> 0:26:31.399
<v Speaker 2>app called ANOM that I think was creative by the FBI.

0:26:31.680 --> 0:26:34.119
<v Speaker 2>And then it was like through a whole bunch of

0:26:34.200 --> 0:26:37.560
<v Speaker 2>like crimson snitches and informants. It was past the carriage

0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:40.880
<v Speaker 2>to be used by the criminal fraternity. And so there

0:26:40.920 --> 0:26:44.080
<v Speaker 2>was all these like major operators using it and the

0:26:44.160 --> 0:26:45.960
<v Speaker 2>colleagues everything.

0:26:46.119 --> 0:26:48.600
<v Speaker 1>They everyone thought that was incated. But yeah, it's a

0:26:48.680 --> 0:26:50.680
<v Speaker 1>scary time for criminals.

0:26:51.400 --> 0:26:54.399
<v Speaker 2>I was. I thought like when on my phone got taken,

0:26:54.480 --> 0:26:56.199
<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh, it's it's locked. I don't think

0:26:56.240 --> 0:26:56.920
<v Speaker 2>you can get in.

0:26:57.080 --> 0:27:00.639
<v Speaker 1>But they got bacticle you to get the past.

0:27:00.840 --> 0:27:02.760
<v Speaker 2>I didn't. They didn't. I think they could have even

0:27:02.760 --> 0:27:04.040
<v Speaker 2>held it in front of my face. They could have

0:27:04.040 --> 0:27:06.240
<v Speaker 2>got in, but they didn't try that. They didn't. They

0:27:06.320 --> 0:27:08.000
<v Speaker 2>didn't do anything like that. But they got like we

0:27:08.119 --> 0:27:09.959
<v Speaker 2>cell bride or whatever it's called. They get. They got

0:27:10.000 --> 0:27:13.720
<v Speaker 2>into some stuff and that was embarrassing enough. They had

0:27:13.800 --> 0:27:17.359
<v Speaker 2>like a text from me to my mate saying like

0:27:18.320 --> 0:27:20.119
<v Speaker 2>hey man, can you bring over the bat phone? And

0:27:20.160 --> 0:27:22.000
<v Speaker 2>I had like a bit in court that that was

0:27:22.040 --> 0:27:26.760
<v Speaker 2>like the batphone was my nickname for my drug phone.

0:27:27.400 --> 0:27:30.640
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, so the second stuff, if I.

0:27:29.800 --> 0:27:34.479
<v Speaker 1>I can relate, I've had my phone, So yeah, if

0:27:34.520 --> 0:27:37.240
<v Speaker 1>you take things out of context, sometimes it looks embarrassing.

0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:41.879
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, yeah. So yes, I was there thinking hopefully they

0:27:41.920 --> 0:27:44.439
<v Speaker 2>can't get in, but they got They didn't get everything,

0:27:44.440 --> 0:27:47.280
<v Speaker 2>but they get enough. Yeah. Yeah, that you have a

0:27:47.280 --> 0:27:53.359
<v Speaker 2>sticky situation in court. I explain it. When you're saying

0:27:53.359 --> 0:27:55.399
<v Speaker 2>that you know things to your friends and family or

0:27:55.960 --> 0:27:58.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, and an off color joke, and then you've

0:27:58.640 --> 0:28:00.000
<v Speaker 2>got to read it out in court, it would say

0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:00.560
<v Speaker 2>way worse.

0:28:00.640 --> 0:28:03.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there was something in the news the other day

0:28:03.280 --> 0:28:06.600
<v Speaker 1>about some gang length stuff and I'm even sure which.

0:28:06.520 --> 0:28:06.960
<v Speaker 2>State, but.

0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:11.080
<v Speaker 1>Stuff was being read out the text messages on the

0:28:11.080 --> 0:28:14.040
<v Speaker 1>phone in court and it was someone ship bagging the

0:28:14.080 --> 0:28:14.960
<v Speaker 1>crew he was working with.

0:28:15.160 --> 0:28:20.960
<v Speaker 2>So that would be embarrassing, so embarrassing, like Fellas, in context,

0:28:21.000 --> 0:28:22.440
<v Speaker 2>it wouldn't sound so bad, you know.

0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:24.280
<v Speaker 1>I was just.

0:28:25.080 --> 0:28:27.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, you didn't get the You know that

0:28:27.480 --> 0:28:29.320
<v Speaker 2>I was being sarcastic if you can't pick that up

0:28:29.320 --> 0:28:33.080
<v Speaker 2>from a text. We've got a few questions here about

0:28:34.040 --> 0:28:36.680
<v Speaker 2>the podcast. So if you've done over what you've done,

0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:41.080
<v Speaker 2>hundreds and hundreds of episodes, Now, which interview has surprised

0:28:41.120 --> 0:28:43.640
<v Speaker 2>you the most? Is there some that have stuck out?

0:28:44.920 --> 0:28:50.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, pay tribute to you? Are you saying the best podcast.

0:28:50.600 --> 0:28:52.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, obviously I would have to be up there, sure.

0:28:53.720 --> 0:28:56.080
<v Speaker 2>I mean you've talked to people on this podcast from

0:28:56.120 --> 0:28:58.160
<v Speaker 2>all walks of life. Yeah. I think that's one of

0:28:58.200 --> 0:29:00.560
<v Speaker 2>the cool things about this podcast is that you know,

0:29:00.680 --> 0:29:03.120
<v Speaker 2>you've also You've got a lot of guys that have

0:29:03.680 --> 0:29:05.880
<v Speaker 2>found themselves on the wrong side of the law that

0:29:06.200 --> 0:29:08.160
<v Speaker 2>come in here and talk about that perspective as well.

0:29:08.320 --> 0:29:09.920
<v Speaker 2>I think that's very cool.

0:29:10.160 --> 0:29:14.520
<v Speaker 1>I find I really find it interesting sitting down speaking

0:29:14.520 --> 0:29:16.760
<v Speaker 1>to people and thinking, you know people, but until you

0:29:16.960 --> 0:29:19.240
<v Speaker 1>sit down, you don't get the full sense of it.

0:29:19.360 --> 0:29:22.480
<v Speaker 1>And I've been very fortunate the cross section of people.

0:29:23.120 --> 0:29:26.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't it's like saying, which is your favorite child?

0:29:26.960 --> 0:29:31.200
<v Speaker 1>One podcast? I was nervous about doing a turn round.

0:29:31.240 --> 0:29:35.120
<v Speaker 1>I had a great time with Grace Tame. That my

0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:38.480
<v Speaker 1>perception of Grace in the media that was a very intense,

0:29:38.840 --> 0:29:44.080
<v Speaker 1>intense person, and I reading the book, I'm thinking, there's

0:29:44.120 --> 0:29:46.360
<v Speaker 1>so much more to Grace Tame than I didn't realize.

0:29:46.400 --> 0:29:49.280
<v Speaker 1>And came in there and I thought, your stuff up

0:29:49.320 --> 0:29:50.360
<v Speaker 1>with Grace and she's.

0:29:50.120 --> 0:29:52.080
<v Speaker 2>Going to unleash on you. She's got a great sense

0:29:52.080 --> 0:29:52.760
<v Speaker 2>of humor as well.

0:29:52.840 --> 0:29:57.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh, it was funny, funny, funny lady, and I really

0:29:57.080 --> 0:29:59.760
<v Speaker 1>enjoyed that. So that was one that surprised me because

0:29:59.760 --> 0:30:01.400
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was going to be intense and I

0:30:01.480 --> 0:30:03.960
<v Speaker 1>really prepared for it. And then when we got got

0:30:04.000 --> 0:30:09.400
<v Speaker 1>in the room, others some amazing, amazing stories that I've heard,

0:30:09.400 --> 0:30:12.920
<v Speaker 1>stories of survival and different people that spend time in

0:30:13.160 --> 0:30:17.640
<v Speaker 1>time in prison and they come through it. And I'm

0:30:17.680 --> 0:30:20.240
<v Speaker 1>talking overseas prisons. One of the guests that blew me

0:30:20.280 --> 0:30:23.760
<v Speaker 1>away was Rob Langdon. He spent seven years in Kabul

0:30:23.880 --> 0:30:27.320
<v Speaker 1>prison in Afghanistan as the next Army soldier, So you

0:30:27.360 --> 0:30:29.760
<v Speaker 1>can imagine the time he had with ISIS and that

0:30:29.880 --> 0:30:33.400
<v Speaker 1>in there so so many people and I honestly can't

0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:37.520
<v Speaker 1>say like a favorite one I enjoy. I realize how

0:30:37.560 --> 0:30:40.280
<v Speaker 1>fortunate I am every time I come in and sit

0:30:40.360 --> 0:30:42.240
<v Speaker 1>down and have a chat with people.

0:30:42.360 --> 0:30:45.360
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I think a lot of Aussie crims will

0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:48.320
<v Speaker 2>winge about Australian prisons. It can get a lot worse.

0:30:48.720 --> 0:30:54.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, yeah, like a prison in Thailand. And there

0:30:54.520 --> 0:30:58.440
<v Speaker 1>was one bloke, Key's an English English guy, Billy Moore.

0:30:58.760 --> 0:31:02.000
<v Speaker 1>I watch He's watch his movie A movie years ago.

0:31:02.040 --> 0:31:05.040
<v Speaker 1>I think it was called that prayer before Dawn.

0:31:05.200 --> 0:31:07.000
<v Speaker 2>And I have seen that.

0:31:07.280 --> 0:31:12.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the myy Tie guy. I watched the movie and

0:31:12.320 --> 0:31:15.240
<v Speaker 1>I thought, I'm hosting the podcast, I could reach out

0:31:15.240 --> 0:31:17.800
<v Speaker 1>to him, got him on and hearing his story, and

0:31:18.040 --> 0:31:19.840
<v Speaker 1>I watched the movie and I always thought they would

0:31:19.880 --> 0:31:22.560
<v Speaker 1>be fascinating and got him in. Thought, well, it fits

0:31:22.640 --> 0:31:26.080
<v Speaker 1>right in the genre of Yeah, I catch killers and

0:31:26.680 --> 0:31:30.880
<v Speaker 1>the story when he was over in Bangkok and the survival,

0:31:30.960 --> 0:31:35.040
<v Speaker 1>how people survive those situations, and then some cops that

0:31:35.600 --> 0:31:38.480
<v Speaker 1>I sit down and speak to. It just makes me

0:31:39.000 --> 0:31:40.840
<v Speaker 1>sad that I want to be back in the cops

0:31:40.840 --> 0:31:43.440
<v Speaker 1>when they're telling a cops story and going, yeah, that's cool.

0:31:43.640 --> 0:31:46.720
<v Speaker 1>And I've been taken back into that world and people

0:31:46.760 --> 0:31:48.760
<v Speaker 1>that I admire and I think I would love to

0:31:48.800 --> 0:31:50.800
<v Speaker 1>work with that person.

0:31:50.920 --> 0:31:53.600
<v Speaker 2>Are there any guys who you put away who you

0:31:53.680 --> 0:31:56.600
<v Speaker 2>thought like under different circumstances, this guy would have been

0:31:56.640 --> 0:31:57.680
<v Speaker 2>a great guy to have a beer with.

0:31:58.120 --> 0:32:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, Yeah, There's plenty of people, and I won't

0:32:03.760 --> 0:32:07.000
<v Speaker 1>name names or get them in trouble, but when I

0:32:07.040 --> 0:32:09.960
<v Speaker 1>sit down and have a chat with them, it's that

0:32:10.280 --> 0:32:12.720
<v Speaker 1>sliding door moment where their lives are gone this way.

0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:15.640
<v Speaker 1>I've gone that way and then you know, we're fortunate

0:32:15.760 --> 0:32:18.440
<v Speaker 1>enough that we can come back and speak to them.

0:32:18.840 --> 0:32:23.959
<v Speaker 1>Even with murderers and people, I choose my words carefully

0:32:23.960 --> 0:32:27.960
<v Speaker 1>here because the consequences of murderer are horrific, but people

0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:31.920
<v Speaker 1>often say, no, murderers should get bail or they're risks

0:32:32.040 --> 0:32:37.120
<v Speaker 1>to society. What I've learned investigating homicides, every murder is different.

0:32:37.280 --> 0:32:40.720
<v Speaker 1>And you know, Sarah or the forensic psychologists would always

0:32:40.760 --> 0:32:42.840
<v Speaker 1>tell me that just because this person's done a bad

0:32:42.920 --> 0:32:45.440
<v Speaker 1>thing doesn't make them a bad person. And that's a

0:32:45.600 --> 0:32:48.760
<v Speaker 1>simple philosophy, and it's from a very smart lady, but

0:32:48.800 --> 0:32:52.320
<v Speaker 1>it's something that I've really learned from that we all

0:32:52.320 --> 0:32:55.920
<v Speaker 1>make mistakes. You make mistakes, I make mistakes. It's how

0:32:55.960 --> 0:32:59.680
<v Speaker 1>you react after the mistakes. We're talking about my mate

0:33:00.160 --> 0:33:03.280
<v Speaker 1>Rob Carlton, who you know through the comedy festivals, and

0:33:03.320 --> 0:33:06.280
<v Speaker 1>he makes a point that you're not defined by what's

0:33:06.280 --> 0:33:09.440
<v Speaker 1>happened right now, it's who you were before and what

0:33:09.520 --> 0:33:11.560
<v Speaker 1>happens after. And that's a good way of looking at

0:33:11.560 --> 0:33:14.560
<v Speaker 1>life too. I think that, yeah, at some point in time,

0:33:14.680 --> 0:33:16.600
<v Speaker 1>we're all going to be down and feeling bad to

0:33:16.640 --> 0:33:19.280
<v Speaker 1>bear ourselves, but what have you done before let's see,

0:33:19.280 --> 0:33:20.840
<v Speaker 1>you've got some credit points there, and what are you

0:33:20.840 --> 0:33:21.719
<v Speaker 1>going to do in the future.

0:33:21.960 --> 0:33:24.000
<v Speaker 2>You must have had, I guess a similar situation to

0:33:24.040 --> 0:33:25.640
<v Speaker 2>me when all the shit hit the fan and you

0:33:25.720 --> 0:33:28.640
<v Speaker 2>left the police force. Is that you know, there's people

0:33:28.720 --> 0:33:31.400
<v Speaker 2>who you thought were your mates. There's people that you

0:33:32.240 --> 0:33:34.240
<v Speaker 2>thought were going to be there when she hits a

0:33:34.280 --> 0:33:37.120
<v Speaker 2>fan that had nowhere to be seen. Yeah, but I

0:33:37.200 --> 0:33:39.520
<v Speaker 2>found on the flip side, there's also people that surprise you,

0:33:39.640 --> 0:33:43.400
<v Speaker 2>people that come and have your back that you never expected.

0:33:43.560 --> 0:33:46.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I one hundred percent on that, and I

0:33:46.520 --> 0:33:49.520
<v Speaker 1>was surprised, Like I probably at that point, I probably

0:33:49.520 --> 0:33:51.800
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't have picked some of the reactions. I thought there

0:33:51.840 --> 0:33:54.880
<v Speaker 1>was some stand up people, and they've been shown to

0:33:54.920 --> 0:33:58.680
<v Speaker 1>be just weak gathered, you know, just couldn't even come

0:33:58.720 --> 0:34:00.560
<v Speaker 1>in and say hello to me when I'm in the

0:34:00.640 --> 0:34:02.760
<v Speaker 1>room for three months. That these are people that mates,

0:34:02.800 --> 0:34:05.120
<v Speaker 1>that have been working with for twenty years. And there's

0:34:05.160 --> 0:34:08.399
<v Speaker 1>other people that have reached out if anything I can

0:34:08.600 --> 0:34:11.520
<v Speaker 1>do the help that made such a difference. So I

0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:15.040
<v Speaker 1>lost I lost a lot of friends through it. And

0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:19.200
<v Speaker 1>then there's others like I paid tribute to I mentioned

0:34:19.239 --> 0:34:22.160
<v Speaker 1>Paul Jacob, I mentioned him a lot. Maddie Moss is

0:34:22.200 --> 0:34:27.160
<v Speaker 1>another bloke and Nick Kaldos's deputy commissioner, and he retired

0:34:27.280 --> 0:34:29.560
<v Speaker 1>as shortly before the ship hit the fan with me,

0:34:30.160 --> 0:34:32.800
<v Speaker 1>and he fumed me up and said, Jubes, I'm walking

0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:35.360
<v Speaker 1>into court with you. And that's him putting his without

0:34:35.400 --> 0:34:38.239
<v Speaker 1>even asking what this was all about. He just said,

0:34:38.320 --> 0:34:40.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm walking in the court with you. So I'm walking

0:34:40.440 --> 0:34:46.239
<v Speaker 1>in with my mentor, Paul Jacob Nick Kaldos, a deputy commissioner,

0:34:46.480 --> 0:34:49.560
<v Speaker 1>and Maddie Moss that I worked with in homicide. And

0:34:49.600 --> 0:34:52.480
<v Speaker 1>I can't say how much that meant to me because

0:34:52.960 --> 0:34:55.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, walking in these are people that I respect

0:34:55.440 --> 0:34:58.080
<v Speaker 1>and they're walking in support me, and there's a lot

0:34:58.120 --> 0:35:00.200
<v Speaker 1>of other people that are behind the scenes of have

0:35:00.280 --> 0:35:00.920
<v Speaker 1>supported me.

0:35:01.680 --> 0:35:04.200
<v Speaker 2>I found, yeah, that I had that feeling of that

0:35:04.239 --> 0:35:06.040
<v Speaker 2>I was let down by people that I thought would

0:35:06.040 --> 0:35:09.240
<v Speaker 2>be there, but then people surprised me and so really

0:35:09.920 --> 0:35:13.839
<v Speaker 2>we're just going through Shiit just is a great clarifier

0:35:14.440 --> 0:35:15.680
<v Speaker 2>where you stand with people. Well.

0:35:15.880 --> 0:35:19.520
<v Speaker 1>It has freedom out to a degree because before I'd

0:35:19.560 --> 0:35:20.840
<v Speaker 1>feel obliged that.

0:35:20.640 --> 0:35:23.120
<v Speaker 2>You know, you gather a send off or whatever.

0:35:23.360 --> 0:35:26.840
<v Speaker 1>I think I've been to two police functions in the

0:35:26.880 --> 0:35:30.640
<v Speaker 1>past six years, and I'm happy with that. I'm happy

0:35:30.680 --> 0:35:32.680
<v Speaker 1>with that. If I if I make an effort to

0:35:32.680 --> 0:35:35.240
<v Speaker 1>gather a function, that's because I really support this person

0:35:35.280 --> 0:35:37.000
<v Speaker 1>and this person's supported me.

0:35:37.120 --> 0:35:39.720
<v Speaker 2>So it sounds like I get invited to more police functions.

0:35:39.719 --> 0:35:45.000
<v Speaker 1>I reckon, I reckon there'd be I reckon, there'd be

0:35:45.000 --> 0:35:46.480
<v Speaker 1>more surveillance on me than on you.

0:35:46.840 --> 0:35:50.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we've swapped ross. I was invited to perform stand

0:35:50.920 --> 0:35:54.320
<v Speaker 2>up for Christmas last year at a at a Victorian

0:35:54.360 --> 0:35:54.960
<v Speaker 2>police station.

0:35:55.080 --> 0:35:57.760
<v Speaker 1>But they you prick, you are getting invited to more.

0:35:59.360 --> 0:36:02.839
<v Speaker 2>So. Yes, most of my paid corporate gigs so far

0:36:03.040 --> 0:36:07.200
<v Speaker 2>have been have been government events like mostly criminal justice

0:36:07.239 --> 0:36:08.279
<v Speaker 2>system once.

0:36:08.239 --> 0:36:11.319
<v Speaker 1>But I see I look a look at you and

0:36:12.280 --> 0:36:14.279
<v Speaker 1>flipping it. See how I've just worked this round and

0:36:14.320 --> 0:36:17.200
<v Speaker 1>now I'm coming to the master plan. This is all

0:36:17.200 --> 0:36:18.800
<v Speaker 1>a set up. We're going to get you to confess.

0:36:19.640 --> 0:36:23.480
<v Speaker 1>But the systems worked for you, hasn't it. You got caught,

0:36:23.640 --> 0:36:26.000
<v Speaker 1>you got punnies, and you've turned your life around.

0:36:26.440 --> 0:36:31.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think that the thing that the prison experience

0:36:31.320 --> 0:36:33.880
<v Speaker 2>really wasn't the thing that changed me. It was the

0:36:34.040 --> 0:36:36.440
<v Speaker 2>impact it had in my friends and family that was

0:36:36.480 --> 0:36:41.120
<v Speaker 2>the difference, and so I think if I had got

0:36:41.239 --> 0:36:43.279
<v Speaker 2>up an environment where everyone I knew was already in prison,

0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:45.520
<v Speaker 2>or I didn't have any friends and family, then I

0:36:45.560 --> 0:36:47.560
<v Speaker 2>don't know if it would have been as strong a

0:36:47.640 --> 0:36:51.319
<v Speaker 2>dis incentive. Okay, because because I had a pretty good

0:36:51.320 --> 0:36:54.080
<v Speaker 2>time in prison, I've got traded great and so I

0:36:54.160 --> 0:36:56.440
<v Speaker 2>think that it was the thing that changed me was

0:36:56.600 --> 0:36:58.400
<v Speaker 2>yet I didn't want to be so selfish just to

0:36:58.480 --> 0:36:59.960
<v Speaker 2>hurt my friends and family anymore.

0:37:00.080 --> 0:37:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, I think, and therein might be the difference

0:37:03.400 --> 0:37:06.480
<v Speaker 1>where people that can't break the break the shackles or

0:37:07.120 --> 0:37:09.440
<v Speaker 1>start to go in the different directions in life, you

0:37:09.520 --> 0:37:12.399
<v Speaker 1>had people around you supporting you, so you can have

0:37:12.440 --> 0:37:15.279
<v Speaker 1>sympathy for and empathy for the people that didn't have

0:37:15.280 --> 0:37:17.480
<v Speaker 1>that support. You could understand if you went in that

0:37:17.520 --> 0:37:19.840
<v Speaker 1>world and you didn't have the family and that.

0:37:19.760 --> 0:37:23.520
<v Speaker 2>For you totally. I think another thing was just opening

0:37:23.560 --> 0:37:25.600
<v Speaker 2>my eyes to how many guys that were in prison

0:37:25.719 --> 0:37:27.360
<v Speaker 2>who you felt like the writing was probably on the

0:37:27.360 --> 0:37:29.200
<v Speaker 2>wall since they were a kid. They just grew up

0:37:29.200 --> 0:37:31.239
<v Speaker 2>an environment where this was always the way that they

0:37:31.239 --> 0:37:34.000
<v Speaker 2>were going to end up. And for me, growing up

0:37:34.080 --> 0:37:37.759
<v Speaker 2>with privilege and being well educated, I just felt like

0:37:37.960 --> 0:37:40.160
<v Speaker 2>I felt like more of a kockhead for bending up there.

0:37:40.200 --> 0:37:41.120
<v Speaker 2>So that was another reason.

0:37:41.239 --> 0:37:44.239
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so there's some shame that comes with that that

0:37:44.960 --> 0:37:47.120
<v Speaker 1>I can't say you didn't understand m childhood.

0:37:47.360 --> 0:37:50.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, totally was. I was to go out and

0:37:50.800 --> 0:37:51.719
<v Speaker 2>do something better than that.

0:37:51.760 --> 0:37:55.960
<v Speaker 1>But look, I think I think it's worked in your situation.

0:37:56.320 --> 0:37:58.920
<v Speaker 1>I think that is a system system working. Where it's

0:37:58.960 --> 0:38:01.320
<v Speaker 1>sad is if you've gone in there with that attitude

0:38:01.360 --> 0:38:03.160
<v Speaker 1>and the system was that rough to you, and that

0:38:03.160 --> 0:38:05.520
<v Speaker 1>that tough that you've you've come out worse than what

0:38:05.600 --> 0:38:06.120
<v Speaker 1>you went in.

0:38:06.400 --> 0:38:08.399
<v Speaker 2>Yep, that's and you would.

0:38:08.760 --> 0:38:11.800
<v Speaker 1>It's a horrible place, isn't I did that series Breaking

0:38:11.880 --> 0:38:15.120
<v Speaker 1>Badness and spent time in that maximum security prison and

0:38:15.280 --> 0:38:18.960
<v Speaker 1>spent a couple of weeks there, and you're just it's

0:38:19.040 --> 0:38:22.520
<v Speaker 1>groundhog Day, isn't it? Every every day? And you can

0:38:22.560 --> 0:38:24.000
<v Speaker 1>see how it breaks people.

0:38:23.719 --> 0:38:26.520
<v Speaker 2>Mentally groundhog Day? And then you know, you have guys.

0:38:26.680 --> 0:38:28.319
<v Speaker 2>I'd be in the yard with guys saying that when

0:38:28.320 --> 0:38:29.840
<v Speaker 2>they got out, they're going to change their life, and

0:38:29.840 --> 0:38:30.880
<v Speaker 2>when they were had to come back, and then a

0:38:30.920 --> 0:38:34.680
<v Speaker 2>couple of years later they're back in because Yeah, for

0:38:34.920 --> 0:38:36.520
<v Speaker 2>a lot of guys, they get out and then they

0:38:36.600 --> 0:38:37.879
<v Speaker 2>forget what it was like in there.

0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:42.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, it's a tough, tough world. I think we

0:38:42.239 --> 0:38:43.680
<v Speaker 1>can do the prisons better.

0:38:44.080 --> 0:38:46.319
<v Speaker 2>I think it is pretty cool when I do my

0:38:46.719 --> 0:38:50.280
<v Speaker 2>stand up shows now, I'll have a lot of people

0:38:50.600 --> 0:38:53.359
<v Speaker 2>involved with the criminal justice system on both sides coming.

0:38:53.400 --> 0:38:55.920
<v Speaker 2>So I'll have a lot of lawyers, but also cops,

0:38:56.160 --> 0:39:00.680
<v Speaker 2>prison officers, but also crims, either like past or current, Yeah, crims.

0:39:01.120 --> 0:39:03.040
<v Speaker 2>You know. Sometimes I'll have like twenty blike's kind of

0:39:03.080 --> 0:39:04.680
<v Speaker 2>my show to support me, which is like a lovely

0:39:05.080 --> 0:39:08.880
<v Speaker 2>But I do get messages from people sometimes to say

0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:13.480
<v Speaker 2>that they did some prison time and they've moved on

0:39:13.520 --> 0:39:16.799
<v Speaker 2>with their life, but it's it's their secret shame they

0:39:16.840 --> 0:39:19.879
<v Speaker 2>don't talk about it. Yeah, and so they think it's

0:39:19.960 --> 0:39:22.439
<v Speaker 2>very cool that I kind of own the fuck out

0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:25.279
<v Speaker 2>of it and do and make jokes about it because

0:39:25.280 --> 0:39:27.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to. I'm just kind of I'm weaponizing I mean,

0:39:27.680 --> 0:39:29.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm empowering myself with it. But also I think hopefully

0:39:30.760 --> 0:39:33.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to desigmatize it a little bit, to be like,

0:39:33.600 --> 0:39:35.719
<v Speaker 2>you can have that happen, but you're allowed to move

0:39:35.760 --> 0:39:37.080
<v Speaker 2>on with your life. Yeah.

0:39:37.120 --> 0:39:39.240
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think it's a good thing. And a skill

0:39:39.280 --> 0:39:41.560
<v Speaker 1>that you have is to be able to laugh at yourself.

0:39:43.760 --> 0:39:46.640
<v Speaker 1>I could have really bottled up when I was publicly

0:39:46.800 --> 0:39:50.360
<v Speaker 1>publicly shamed and different things, but I can have a

0:39:50.400 --> 0:39:54.200
<v Speaker 1>laugh about it. One of my great decisions was when

0:39:54.360 --> 0:39:59.640
<v Speaker 1>I got sense that, or before I got sense, they

0:39:59.680 --> 0:40:01.839
<v Speaker 1>want do an article in the paper, and I said, yeah,

0:40:02.040 --> 0:40:04.839
<v Speaker 1>I'm happy, happy to do it. And I've said inter

0:40:04.920 --> 0:40:08.000
<v Speaker 1>view and I'd prefer to go to jail and pay

0:40:08.000 --> 0:40:09.640
<v Speaker 1>a fine. And then they've got a photo of me

0:40:09.719 --> 0:40:13.319
<v Speaker 1>standing on Couldjie Beach with Marm's cross staring, and it

0:40:13.400 --> 0:40:16.200
<v Speaker 1>was on the front page of the paper on the weekend,

0:40:16.719 --> 0:40:20.040
<v Speaker 1>and I've gone, that's not good.

0:40:20.440 --> 0:40:22.839
<v Speaker 2>Margaret just shortened the quota, just says I would rather

0:40:22.880 --> 0:40:25.719
<v Speaker 2>go to jail. And it's like I think it was.

0:40:25.800 --> 0:40:29.360
<v Speaker 1>Margaret Canerian text me and gone, I've represented easier client.

0:40:29.480 --> 0:40:31.160
<v Speaker 2>She was a my Barrissa or whatever.

0:40:31.400 --> 0:40:34.640
<v Speaker 1>But having said that, I was comfortable with that and

0:40:34.880 --> 0:40:37.200
<v Speaker 1>what I meant by that, and I was true to

0:40:37.280 --> 0:40:39.600
<v Speaker 1>my word. And some people might say I'm stupid and

0:40:39.680 --> 0:40:42.640
<v Speaker 1>I am stupid, and they might I know I'm stupid,

0:40:42.680 --> 0:40:45.959
<v Speaker 1>but it was a matter of principle. For fuck's sake.

0:40:46.120 --> 0:40:48.799
<v Speaker 1>I was doing police work. If you're going to find me,

0:40:48.840 --> 0:40:51.759
<v Speaker 1>send me to jail if I'm that bad, and it was, Yeah,

0:40:51.880 --> 0:40:54.680
<v Speaker 1>I can imagine how that's received in the legal fraternity.

0:40:54.920 --> 0:40:57.040
<v Speaker 1>But I feel good about that. I was not going

0:40:57.080 --> 0:41:00.240
<v Speaker 1>to take a knee for what I did, and I

0:41:00.239 --> 0:41:02.680
<v Speaker 1>I could have had an easier path out of there.

0:41:02.719 --> 0:41:04.760
<v Speaker 1>I could have just gone, I'm sorry, I've boots stressed,

0:41:04.760 --> 0:41:08.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm working on this all that. No, I dug myhills

0:41:08.719 --> 0:41:11.239
<v Speaker 1>in the Yeah, people might say to my detriment, but

0:41:11.440 --> 0:41:14.640
<v Speaker 1>I can live for myself if I if I took

0:41:14.680 --> 0:41:18.880
<v Speaker 1>the knee and apologized, I don't think I'd look myself

0:41:18.920 --> 0:41:20.920
<v Speaker 1>in the mirror and be happy with what I'm saying.

0:41:21.000 --> 0:41:26.880
<v Speaker 2>The media do like they'll sensationalize it. I know, I know.

0:41:27.719 --> 0:41:31.240
<v Speaker 2>I got stitched up. Recently. I was in some expos

0:41:31.280 --> 0:41:34.480
<v Speaker 2>a about cocaine, and I was just making the point

0:41:34.520 --> 0:41:37.200
<v Speaker 2>that when I'm with the lockout laws, a lot of

0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:40.680
<v Speaker 2>people gone to just having house parties, and people was

0:41:40.680 --> 0:41:42.879
<v Speaker 2>saving the money that they had been on alcohol and

0:41:42.920 --> 0:41:46.680
<v Speaker 2>buying drugs. Right, And so then the article had in

0:41:46.760 --> 0:41:48.680
<v Speaker 2>like big, a big quote for me, in a big

0:41:48.680 --> 0:41:51.759
<v Speaker 2>photo for me in the Daily telegraphs saying cheaper to

0:41:51.760 --> 0:41:55.319
<v Speaker 2>do coke than beer and maybe sound like the worst

0:41:55.320 --> 0:41:57.360
<v Speaker 2>financial advisor in the world.

0:41:58.920 --> 0:42:02.839
<v Speaker 1>Again if things taken out of context. But yeah, it's

0:42:04.360 --> 0:42:07.080
<v Speaker 1>you've got to choose your words carefully, haven't you? When

0:42:07.120 --> 0:42:10.560
<v Speaker 1>I do TV work that you might be recorded for

0:42:11.239 --> 0:42:13.799
<v Speaker 1>an hour or so, and knowing that they're only going

0:42:13.840 --> 0:42:17.319
<v Speaker 1>to be using sixty seconds or two minute grab from

0:42:17.520 --> 0:42:21.720
<v Speaker 1>sixty minutes of footage. So you've got to be careful

0:42:21.760 --> 0:42:24.640
<v Speaker 1>and you do learn dealing with the media.

0:42:25.680 --> 0:42:28.640
<v Speaker 2>Eventually, Yeah, you do after you gets stung a few times.

0:42:28.640 --> 0:42:31.960
<v Speaker 2>A couple of highs and layers. Let's talk about your

0:42:31.960 --> 0:42:33.320
<v Speaker 2>personal life.

0:42:33.840 --> 0:42:36.120
<v Speaker 1>Talking about highs and layers.

0:42:37.239 --> 0:42:40.239
<v Speaker 2>So what kind of weird stuff are you into? Yoga?

0:42:40.360 --> 0:42:42.320
<v Speaker 2>Meditation that's not weird stuff?

0:42:42.480 --> 0:42:45.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, saunas, yoga, meditation, boxing.

0:42:45.840 --> 0:42:48.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what else do you have in kale juices? You

0:42:48.200 --> 0:42:51.600
<v Speaker 2>don't drink coffee, you're drinking herbal teas.

0:42:51.200 --> 0:42:55.280
<v Speaker 1>I like smoothies. But this is the way I approach

0:42:55.320 --> 0:42:57.400
<v Speaker 1>fitness and the healthy life sotyle. I think there's got

0:42:57.440 --> 0:43:01.120
<v Speaker 1>to be balanced. So starts off with I'll do yoga

0:43:01.200 --> 0:43:03.279
<v Speaker 1>and meditation, but I also like the box, so I

0:43:03.400 --> 0:43:06.040
<v Speaker 1>like to get hit I like to hit things, but

0:43:06.040 --> 0:43:10.000
<v Speaker 1>I like to sit there and chant. So it's about balance.

0:43:10.840 --> 0:43:15.359
<v Speaker 1>People think I'm obsessed with my fitness. I just I

0:43:15.440 --> 0:43:17.799
<v Speaker 1>train so I can live the life the way I

0:43:17.840 --> 0:43:20.719
<v Speaker 1>want to live it, if that makes sense. And yeah,

0:43:20.719 --> 0:43:24.160
<v Speaker 1>we're all I drink like it's not I'm not. No,

0:43:24.520 --> 0:43:26.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm pure. I'm not going to drink. I don't go

0:43:26.800 --> 0:43:30.200
<v Speaker 1>down that path. I just want to have moderation in

0:43:30.280 --> 0:43:33.799
<v Speaker 1>the way that I approach my life. So some people, but.

0:43:33.880 --> 0:43:36.720
<v Speaker 2>You were never the cliche of the grizzled detective waking

0:43:36.800 --> 0:43:41.800
<v Speaker 2>up hungover. You're only getting up early to do us

0:43:41.840 --> 0:43:44.080
<v Speaker 2>to do down with dog with the sun rising.

0:43:45.440 --> 0:43:48.280
<v Speaker 1>A couple of a couple of funny times, like because

0:43:48.320 --> 0:43:51.520
<v Speaker 1>we're traveling so much in homicide and you're always traveling.

0:43:51.560 --> 0:43:53.839
<v Speaker 1>That was one country town. I forget where it was.

0:43:54.200 --> 0:43:57.279
<v Speaker 1>I'm down by the river and I'm doing chigung, which

0:43:57.320 --> 0:44:00.399
<v Speaker 1>is like a slow moving taie chee type.

0:44:00.560 --> 0:44:02.480
<v Speaker 2>I've seen Chinese ladies doing this in the park.

0:44:02.600 --> 0:44:05.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I'm down there and you've gotta

0:44:05.200 --> 0:44:07.920
<v Speaker 1>love country Australia. One blake just walks up to me.

0:44:07.960 --> 0:44:09.960
<v Speaker 1>So I'm just in the middle of the movement, just

0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:13.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, center centering everything. What are you doing? Mate?

0:44:14.040 --> 0:44:14.600
<v Speaker 2>It looks weird?

0:44:14.640 --> 0:44:15.480
<v Speaker 1>Shit, what are you doing?

0:44:16.600 --> 0:44:17.080
<v Speaker 2>Country thing?

0:44:17.960 --> 0:44:21.240
<v Speaker 1>And another time we've Jason, we're gone out west of Dubbo.

0:44:21.360 --> 0:44:24.440
<v Speaker 1>Once you go west of Dubbo, it's really getting into that.

0:44:24.760 --> 0:44:26.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the outback type era.

0:44:26.239 --> 0:44:28.880
<v Speaker 1>And we're driving along. I said, can you stop the

0:44:28.920 --> 0:44:31.680
<v Speaker 1>car for a moment and he said yeah, and I

0:44:31.680 --> 0:44:33.880
<v Speaker 1>get out of the car. I'm just standing in this

0:44:34.000 --> 0:44:36.279
<v Speaker 1>paddic or. It was just a dry sort of area,

0:44:36.480 --> 0:44:39.680
<v Speaker 1>just standing taking in the silence. I was really enjoying it.

0:44:39.680 --> 0:44:43.280
<v Speaker 1>It was just had a chaoic time. What the fuck

0:44:43.360 --> 0:44:45.240
<v Speaker 1>are you doing? Then he put on the police sirah,

0:44:45.280 --> 0:44:46.320
<v Speaker 1>the reckless serenity.

0:44:46.400 --> 0:44:49.840
<v Speaker 2>But look, it's help. It's helped me, it's helped me.

0:44:49.920 --> 0:44:52.920
<v Speaker 2>I read an article which said that five hundred and

0:44:52.960 --> 0:44:55.160
<v Speaker 2>eighty one crimes go and sold in New South Wales

0:44:55.160 --> 0:44:57.439
<v Speaker 2>every month due to police officers wasting time on breath

0:44:57.440 --> 0:44:59.359
<v Speaker 2>work and meditation when they should be serving a crime.

0:45:00.600 --> 0:45:08.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay, how will I respond to that bullshit? There's a

0:45:08.400 --> 0:45:10.920
<v Speaker 1>lot I'd say that more than I'm looking at the figures,

0:45:10.920 --> 0:45:14.000
<v Speaker 1>probably more crimes are doing that. They're probably playing on

0:45:14.760 --> 0:45:19.640
<v Speaker 1>their phone at balances. At balances, I got through homicide

0:45:19.680 --> 0:45:21.759
<v Speaker 1>as long as I did, and I didn't take time

0:45:21.800 --> 0:45:24.000
<v Speaker 1>off when I was at work. I turned up every

0:45:24.080 --> 0:45:28.080
<v Speaker 1>day because when I was knowing I'm spinning out of control,

0:45:28.239 --> 0:45:30.480
<v Speaker 1>that was my release. Sometimes I had to sit there

0:45:30.480 --> 0:45:32.800
<v Speaker 1>and meditate. Other times I'd had to walk in the

0:45:32.880 --> 0:45:35.319
<v Speaker 1>gym and get the shit punched out of me to

0:45:35.640 --> 0:45:38.640
<v Speaker 1>just take my mind of what I'm doing. But it

0:45:38.760 --> 0:45:40.920
<v Speaker 1>worked for me. It doesn't work for everyone. But what

0:45:41.000 --> 0:45:43.640
<v Speaker 1>I find really interesting. When I first started doing it,

0:45:43.880 --> 0:45:45.680
<v Speaker 1>people thought I was weird. It was almost like you

0:45:45.680 --> 0:45:48.000
<v Speaker 1>don't trust a blake that doesn't drink. You don't trust

0:45:48.000 --> 0:45:49.520
<v Speaker 1>a blake he does chiggle.

0:45:49.680 --> 0:45:52.000
<v Speaker 2>So my mum always said, you never trust a skinny chef.

0:45:52.560 --> 0:45:58.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, the same thing. But I think people are

0:45:58.239 --> 0:46:00.239
<v Speaker 1>more accepting of it now. And when I use to

0:46:00.400 --> 0:46:04.080
<v Speaker 1>go to a yoga retreat or whatever, people would be

0:46:04.080 --> 0:46:07.160
<v Speaker 1>sitting there and yeah, you're talking, and what do you do?

0:46:07.200 --> 0:46:10.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm a policeman and everyone just looking just what the hell?

0:46:10.400 --> 0:46:14.800
<v Speaker 1>But now it's the norm. Yeah, so I was ahead

0:46:14.840 --> 0:46:15.279
<v Speaker 1>of my time.

0:46:17.160 --> 0:46:20.440
<v Speaker 2>Here's another question from Brian Garry. Is it true that

0:46:20.520 --> 0:46:23.080
<v Speaker 2>you had a full head of hair? When you started

0:46:23.120 --> 0:46:25.080
<v Speaker 2>with the cops. But a strand fell out every time

0:46:25.080 --> 0:46:27.080
<v Speaker 2>you pissed off one of your former wives or girlfriends.

0:46:29.400 --> 0:46:32.239
<v Speaker 1>That's a loaded, loaded question. I didn't have that many

0:46:32.320 --> 0:46:35.120
<v Speaker 1>wives and girlfriends. When you look back, it's over a

0:46:35.120 --> 0:46:39.279
<v Speaker 1>long period of time. When my hair started falling out,

0:46:39.360 --> 0:46:41.160
<v Speaker 1>you get to that point do you do the shave

0:46:41.280 --> 0:46:43.600
<v Speaker 1>or not do the shaven? And when I've decided to

0:46:43.840 --> 0:46:45.880
<v Speaker 1>do the shave, or away with a group of friends,

0:46:46.239 --> 0:46:49.719
<v Speaker 1>surfing trip or whatever, and one of the mates, the

0:46:49.800 --> 0:46:52.600
<v Speaker 1>wives or girlfriends, said I've got some clippers in there,

0:46:52.640 --> 0:46:56.120
<v Speaker 1>why don't we shave? And it was enlightening all of

0:46:56.160 --> 0:46:59.080
<v Speaker 1>a sudden. You're not worried about being baled. Here you're bald.

0:46:59.360 --> 0:47:00.440
<v Speaker 1>What are you going to do about it?

0:47:00.440 --> 0:47:01.160
<v Speaker 2>It's quite free.

0:47:01.320 --> 0:47:05.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it is free. It's a little bit confronting at first,

0:47:05.600 --> 0:47:09.000
<v Speaker 1>but once you do it, life goes on. Like when

0:47:09.040 --> 0:47:11.640
<v Speaker 1>you're losing your hair, there's nothing worse. And I see

0:47:11.640 --> 0:47:13.719
<v Speaker 1>blakes going through it, and I know they're going through it.

0:47:13.800 --> 0:47:16.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking, you poor bastard. You'll be thinking life's not

0:47:16.520 --> 0:47:18.960
<v Speaker 1>worth living. If I've got no hair, shave it off

0:47:19.040 --> 0:47:20.760
<v Speaker 1>and you go, oh, well, here I am.

0:47:20.640 --> 0:47:22.799
<v Speaker 2>You've got a head that suits a bald head though, Well.

0:47:22.719 --> 0:47:25.040
<v Speaker 1>That I was I wasn't. I wasn't going to say

0:47:25.080 --> 0:47:27.680
<v Speaker 1>that because you don't know until your shave, because you

0:47:27.719 --> 0:47:29.680
<v Speaker 1>don't know what sort of shape you've you've got.

0:47:29.880 --> 0:47:31.839
<v Speaker 2>True. Yeah, I don't want to see a photo of

0:47:31.880 --> 0:47:33.759
<v Speaker 2>Gary with hair. It was.

0:47:35.480 --> 0:47:39.759
<v Speaker 1>It was long, curly hair, and I miss it. The

0:47:39.800 --> 0:47:42.040
<v Speaker 1>thing I miss is having haircuts because I like to go.

0:47:42.280 --> 0:47:44.080
<v Speaker 1>You could sit and have a haircut, you know, when

0:47:44.080 --> 0:47:45.920
<v Speaker 1>you're just got a shitty day or stuff it, I'll

0:47:46.160 --> 0:47:48.560
<v Speaker 1>get a haircut. Well, you can't really do that. I

0:47:48.560 --> 0:47:49.480
<v Speaker 1>haven't got many options.

0:47:49.480 --> 0:47:51.480
<v Speaker 2>But you had hair when you first started the copper Yeah, yeah,

0:47:51.560 --> 0:47:52.520
<v Speaker 2>yeah had hair.

0:47:53.440 --> 0:47:57.239
<v Speaker 1>In regards to the girlfriends and wives, yes, I've had

0:47:57.280 --> 0:47:57.560
<v Speaker 1>a few.

0:47:57.840 --> 0:48:00.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well you said before. You know, you're not good

0:48:00.200 --> 0:48:02.640
<v Speaker 2>tchechnive unless you've gone through a couple of divorces. Yeah.

0:48:03.400 --> 0:48:05.200
<v Speaker 1>Some of the best cases were solved when I was

0:48:05.239 --> 0:48:07.879
<v Speaker 1>just a lonely guy at home. We've nothing to do. Look,

0:48:08.239 --> 0:48:14.879
<v Speaker 1>I've had I've had some great relationships, and everyone I've

0:48:14.880 --> 0:48:17.920
<v Speaker 1>been with I've got something from the relationship. Why they

0:48:17.920 --> 0:48:19.920
<v Speaker 1>break down? People always want me to say, well, it's

0:48:19.920 --> 0:48:22.759
<v Speaker 1>a pressure of work. Sometimes it's a pressure of work.

0:48:22.800 --> 0:48:27.239
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes you just grow apart because work is demanding and

0:48:27.280 --> 0:48:31.120
<v Speaker 1>you give yourself, give yourself to that. But I don't

0:48:31.160 --> 0:48:31.720
<v Speaker 1>know if I've.

0:48:31.640 --> 0:48:34.200
<v Speaker 2>Learned well, I mean that was my next question is

0:48:34.239 --> 0:48:37.479
<v Speaker 2>now you're, what six six years out of five years

0:48:37.480 --> 0:48:41.320
<v Speaker 2>out of the force. Do you think that that has

0:48:43.320 --> 0:48:47.520
<v Speaker 2>changed your ability to maintain a relationship because you not

0:48:47.760 --> 0:48:51.759
<v Speaker 2>have this drive to solve a murder everybody a couple

0:48:51.800 --> 0:48:52.160
<v Speaker 2>of days.

0:48:52.480 --> 0:48:57.000
<v Speaker 1>It definitely makes me a better catch in that that

0:48:57.000 --> 0:49:02.279
<v Speaker 1>you're more available, more available because before I would be

0:49:02.400 --> 0:49:04.839
<v Speaker 1>hard pressed not to turn the phone off.

0:49:04.880 --> 0:49:06.680
<v Speaker 2>I can now get to the point where I, yeah,

0:49:06.960 --> 0:49:09.000
<v Speaker 2>that's not it's not just like a time thing. But

0:49:09.040 --> 0:49:12.239
<v Speaker 2>also imagine an emotional availability thing. If you're if I'm

0:49:12.840 --> 0:49:15.520
<v Speaker 2>mentally bogged down in someone's murder, it'd be hard to

0:49:15.600 --> 0:49:18.160
<v Speaker 2>kind of unplug from that and go out for dating.

0:49:18.200 --> 0:49:21.759
<v Speaker 1>Yet well, one hundred percent, and sometimes you get home

0:49:21.840 --> 0:49:23.799
<v Speaker 1>and where do you want to have dinner? Well, I

0:49:23.840 --> 0:49:28.360
<v Speaker 1>don't care, like just that that type of thing I

0:49:28.440 --> 0:49:32.439
<v Speaker 1>in my my work life was very challenging. I tend

0:49:32.440 --> 0:49:35.800
<v Speaker 1>to the relationships I've been in, They've been challenging and rewarding.

0:49:35.840 --> 0:49:37.799
<v Speaker 1>So it's sort of the highs and the lowers. I

0:49:37.920 --> 0:49:41.760
<v Speaker 1>like the passionate relationships which can end very badly sometimes.

0:49:41.840 --> 0:49:44.160
<v Speaker 2>Let me tell you my ex fiance dubbed me into

0:49:44.160 --> 0:49:45.680
<v Speaker 2>the cops and I got center present, So.

0:49:49.680 --> 0:49:53.759
<v Speaker 1>No point the winch What I have learned, and this

0:49:53.920 --> 0:49:56.960
<v Speaker 1>is jeezus last hit him over the head enough times

0:49:57.000 --> 0:49:59.360
<v Speaker 1>he starts to learn. The ship that went down in

0:49:59.440 --> 0:50:02.360
<v Speaker 1>the the Cops made me realize the importance of the

0:50:02.360 --> 0:50:05.799
<v Speaker 1>people that I needed to rely upon, the people close

0:50:05.880 --> 0:50:08.319
<v Speaker 1>to me, the people that supported me, family, friends and

0:50:08.360 --> 0:50:11.640
<v Speaker 1>all that, and relationships. No matter what, if you're in

0:50:11.680 --> 0:50:15.440
<v Speaker 1>a good relationship, life's pretty good, and I understand the

0:50:15.480 --> 0:50:18.480
<v Speaker 1>importance of it. That's what I want from life. I

0:50:18.520 --> 0:50:21.440
<v Speaker 1>want a good relationship because no matter how much success

0:50:21.480 --> 0:50:24.560
<v Speaker 1>you have or rewards you're getting from work, if you

0:50:24.640 --> 0:50:27.120
<v Speaker 1>come home and there's no one there, it's a pretty

0:50:27.160 --> 0:50:29.200
<v Speaker 1>lonely place. And I've spent a lot of time, a

0:50:29.200 --> 0:50:32.239
<v Speaker 1>lot of time on my own and sometimes you're on

0:50:32.280 --> 0:50:35.960
<v Speaker 1>the high from work you've come home. Fuck yeah, you've

0:50:35.960 --> 0:50:39.719
<v Speaker 1>become like that cliche of the homicide bloke eating a

0:50:39.760 --> 0:50:41.839
<v Speaker 1>pizza and a cold beer sort of thing.

0:50:42.120 --> 0:50:44.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean that leads us on to our next

0:50:44.239 --> 0:50:46.640
<v Speaker 2>question game. Quite a few women have written in to

0:50:46.680 --> 0:50:50.840
<v Speaker 2>ask if you are single, what's the relationships staff of

0:50:50.960 --> 0:50:52.799
<v Speaker 2>Gary Jervalin. It's classified.

0:50:54.120 --> 0:50:58.800
<v Speaker 1>It's classified at this stage. I'm in a good place

0:50:58.880 --> 0:51:03.640
<v Speaker 1>at the moment. I'm gonna tiptoe around this, around this question.

0:51:04.080 --> 0:51:07.640
<v Speaker 1>I've had my highs and lowers since I've left the cops,

0:51:07.680 --> 0:51:11.600
<v Speaker 1>reading to that what what you want? But I'm finding

0:51:11.640 --> 0:51:16.959
<v Speaker 1>a pathway through. It's very mysterious a politician, I finding

0:51:16.960 --> 0:51:18.759
<v Speaker 1>the pathway. Is there any phone numbers there?

0:51:20.560 --> 0:51:25.360
<v Speaker 2>Check the Instagram. Look, I'm yeah.

0:51:25.400 --> 0:51:28.239
<v Speaker 1>You can make so many mistakes in life, and then

0:51:28.239 --> 0:51:30.600
<v Speaker 1>you've got to wake up yourself. I'm hoping that I'll

0:51:30.600 --> 0:51:32.600
<v Speaker 1>get it right in the future.

0:51:33.000 --> 0:51:35.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, some checks would have just been into

0:51:35.120 --> 0:51:38.400
<v Speaker 2>you when you were a cop, because they it's a

0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:40.600
<v Speaker 2>fantasy thing. But you're not that anymore so, not that

0:51:40.600 --> 0:51:41.000
<v Speaker 2>you're just a.

0:51:41.000 --> 0:51:45.239
<v Speaker 1>Podcast sad if I'm walking around going I used to

0:51:45.239 --> 0:51:45.719
<v Speaker 1>be a cop.

0:51:47.200 --> 0:51:51.040
<v Speaker 2>I used to be uniform. So yeah, you're right, that's

0:51:51.040 --> 0:51:54.200
<v Speaker 2>a hard, hard show. You've still got a photo of

0:51:54.200 --> 0:51:56.960
<v Speaker 2>you in your uniform and you're on your Tinder bio.

0:51:57.920 --> 0:52:00.200
<v Speaker 1>I've never gone down that path no dating apps. Not

0:52:01.320 --> 0:52:03.960
<v Speaker 1>Look what the phone got me into. It got me charged.

0:52:04.200 --> 0:52:08.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm not touching that thing that would that would end

0:52:08.160 --> 0:52:12.680
<v Speaker 1>in disaster. Okay, so I stick clear of that. But no,

0:52:12.800 --> 0:52:13.680
<v Speaker 1>you've made a good point.

0:52:13.719 --> 0:52:15.120
<v Speaker 2>What what do you do?

0:52:15.200 --> 0:52:18.919
<v Speaker 1>I do a podcast. We'll say that's everyone else. I've

0:52:18.920 --> 0:52:20.840
<v Speaker 1>got to work on the line more interesting.

0:52:21.080 --> 0:52:24.719
<v Speaker 2>I mean, chicks seek every dude, every white dude has

0:52:24.719 --> 0:52:25.320
<v Speaker 2>a podcast.

0:52:25.480 --> 0:52:28.640
<v Speaker 1>Right, yeah, well everyone's got a podcast. Okay, got to

0:52:28.680 --> 0:52:29.319
<v Speaker 1>come up with something.

0:52:29.680 --> 0:52:30.120
<v Speaker 2>Listen to it.

0:52:30.160 --> 0:52:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Actually, so you can. Have you played the line that

0:52:34.640 --> 0:52:36.200
<v Speaker 1>now that you've written the book, you're an author.

0:52:36.320 --> 0:52:40.239
<v Speaker 2>That's that has to be I still haven't tried that one.

0:52:40.320 --> 0:52:42.480
<v Speaker 2>It's still it still seems very surreal that I wrote

0:52:42.520 --> 0:52:44.360
<v Speaker 2>a book. So it's only been a few months. But

0:52:44.719 --> 0:52:47.239
<v Speaker 2>I'm okay, we'll get get into that because just you've

0:52:47.239 --> 0:52:47.600
<v Speaker 2>got to.

0:52:47.560 --> 0:52:52.040
<v Speaker 1>Tailor it to the now. I'm an author, a writer.

0:52:53.120 --> 0:52:55.920
<v Speaker 2>A comedian. Doesn't sound that oppressive. That's a that's a

0:52:55.960 --> 0:52:57.439
<v Speaker 2>pretty I'm in the performing arts.

0:52:57.440 --> 0:52:59.759
<v Speaker 1>What but isn't that? Isn't that what they say? Like

0:53:00.160 --> 0:53:02.160
<v Speaker 1>what the women look for, it's not the looks. That's

0:53:02.200 --> 0:53:03.959
<v Speaker 1>a man that can make them make them laugh.

0:53:04.040 --> 0:53:07.040
<v Speaker 2>So sure, I'm sure you can. Yeah, but I think

0:53:07.080 --> 0:53:09.279
<v Speaker 2>that they want that like at home, they wanted a

0:53:09.280 --> 0:53:10.520
<v Speaker 2>guy who's making it for you, like I don't know

0:53:10.560 --> 0:53:13.359
<v Speaker 2>that on stage doing it for everyone else.

0:53:13.440 --> 0:53:14.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh, it's just embarrassing.

0:53:16.520 --> 0:53:19.560
<v Speaker 2>You were talking about Pam before and relationship with Pam.

0:53:19.840 --> 0:53:22.399
<v Speaker 2>I saw you'd had her on this podcast previously, and

0:53:22.480 --> 0:53:26.520
<v Speaker 2>she had mentioned that you were a generous lover. Good

0:53:26.520 --> 0:53:30.080
<v Speaker 2>on you, Gary, that I wasn't sure where that answered.

0:53:30.320 --> 0:53:34.000
<v Speaker 2>I wanted that. Yeah, but she also said that you

0:53:34.280 --> 0:53:37.680
<v Speaker 2>were prone to answering your phone in the throes of passion,

0:53:40.239 --> 0:53:43.880
<v Speaker 2>Gary Andrew, can't you call them back in two minutes?

0:53:44.280 --> 0:53:46.120
<v Speaker 2>Well two minutes?

0:53:49.719 --> 0:53:51.640
<v Speaker 1>Let her go to it, won't I'm not going to

0:53:51.640 --> 0:53:53.759
<v Speaker 1>say how long it it take before I call him back.

0:53:53.840 --> 0:53:57.400
<v Speaker 1>That's but good line of question that you almost tripped

0:53:57.400 --> 0:53:59.520
<v Speaker 1>me into that. It wouldn't have been two minutes, would

0:53:59.520 --> 0:54:03.400
<v Speaker 1>have been ten minutes. Good good questioning.

0:54:03.800 --> 0:54:04.839
<v Speaker 2>But you used to do that.

0:54:05.160 --> 0:54:08.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I did, and I'm not proud of it. I'm

0:54:08.160 --> 0:54:12.440
<v Speaker 1>not mate, I'm not proud of it. But Pam was

0:54:12.480 --> 0:54:15.640
<v Speaker 1>a homicide detective too, so she would under understand.

0:54:15.760 --> 0:54:19.520
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, whatever rocks you, Baace. Even though most dedicated

0:54:19.560 --> 0:54:21.680
<v Speaker 2>of cops is allowed to have a few minutes to themselves.

0:54:21.680 --> 0:54:25.719
<v Speaker 1>Surely that was I was a lunatic in the just

0:54:26.360 --> 0:54:29.480
<v Speaker 1>find me any time, I'll answer, Yeah, okay, I'm embarrassed

0:54:29.520 --> 0:54:33.279
<v Speaker 1>by that. Well, you know, and I did publicly apologize

0:54:33.320 --> 0:54:35.360
<v Speaker 1>to Pam and anyone else I've insulted.

0:54:35.400 --> 0:54:37.680
<v Speaker 2>For well, I was probably a good thing that you're

0:54:37.680 --> 0:54:39.960
<v Speaker 2>not on Tinder, because it would be like just photos

0:54:39.960 --> 0:54:42.279
<v Speaker 2>of you were to say generous lava as long as

0:54:42.280 --> 0:54:43.000
<v Speaker 2>the phone doesn't ring.

0:54:43.239 --> 0:54:47.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, you talk about the media. And my kids

0:54:47.920 --> 0:54:51.799
<v Speaker 1>sent me this and they're gone, Dad, like as an embarrassment.

0:54:53.360 --> 0:54:55.920
<v Speaker 1>Top cops with bedroomantics or whatever.

0:54:55.960 --> 0:54:58.239
<v Speaker 2>The headlight just what they thought I could have get

0:54:58.239 --> 0:54:58.560
<v Speaker 2>any work?

0:55:00.080 --> 0:55:01.880
<v Speaker 1>Can you shut up, Dad?

0:55:02.160 --> 0:55:02.719
<v Speaker 2>Stop it?

0:55:03.080 --> 0:55:05.680
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, that wasn't wasn't a proud moment for my kids.

0:55:07.440 --> 0:55:10.200
<v Speaker 2>So now you're in a position where you're not in

0:55:10.200 --> 0:55:13.839
<v Speaker 2>the cops. So whatever relationships you get into now it's

0:55:13.880 --> 0:55:14.759
<v Speaker 2>a different version of you.

0:55:15.120 --> 0:55:18.120
<v Speaker 1>It is a different version, but a more relaxed version.

0:55:18.400 --> 0:55:21.839
<v Speaker 1>I'd like to think that I can control my life now.

0:55:21.960 --> 0:55:24.680
<v Speaker 1>Now that's something that I didn't realize when I was

0:55:24.719 --> 0:55:29.200
<v Speaker 1>in the cops. That now, when I'm basically working for myself.

0:55:29.480 --> 0:55:31.799
<v Speaker 1>I can choose when I work. If someone wants me

0:55:31.840 --> 0:55:34.280
<v Speaker 1>to do a talk, I don't have to ask for permission,

0:55:34.600 --> 0:55:36.919
<v Speaker 1>And so I feel like I've got control of my life.

0:55:36.920 --> 0:55:39.799
<v Speaker 1>If I want a holiday, I can plan for it.

0:55:39.880 --> 0:55:42.799
<v Speaker 1>In the cops, you couldn't plan for those type of things.

0:55:42.840 --> 0:55:45.719
<v Speaker 1>So I think I'm a Is this am I doing

0:55:45.960 --> 0:55:49.200
<v Speaker 1>a sales pitch like cook a beautiful meal?

0:55:49.920 --> 0:55:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:55:51.160 --> 0:55:54.680
<v Speaker 1>No, I'm a better person than I was when I

0:55:54.719 --> 0:55:57.600
<v Speaker 1>was in the Cops. I still liked the person I

0:55:57.680 --> 0:55:59.400
<v Speaker 1>was in the Cops. I was dedicated and all that,

0:55:59.440 --> 0:56:02.000
<v Speaker 1>but I've got or freedom now, and I think people

0:56:02.040 --> 0:56:04.920
<v Speaker 1>that know me see me as more relaxed now than

0:56:04.960 --> 0:56:08.880
<v Speaker 1>the intensity that you had to carry as a homicide detective.

0:56:09.760 --> 0:56:13.160
<v Speaker 2>Do you looking back at your career and I guess

0:56:13.440 --> 0:56:17.200
<v Speaker 2>the way you left the force you have regrets around it.

0:56:19.880 --> 0:56:23.279
<v Speaker 1>My regret and I've said this before, and when I

0:56:23.320 --> 0:56:26.000
<v Speaker 1>say it, I don't want people to misinterpret it. But

0:56:26.080 --> 0:56:28.400
<v Speaker 1>if I knew that my career was going to end

0:56:28.440 --> 0:56:31.560
<v Speaker 1>the way it did, I went hard on the wim

0:56:31.600 --> 0:56:34.160
<v Speaker 1>turial investigation. If I knew it was just going to

0:56:34.200 --> 0:56:36.640
<v Speaker 1>be ripped away, I would have gone even harder and

0:56:37.120 --> 0:56:40.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm not making any apologies for the way I led

0:56:40.600 --> 0:56:45.799
<v Speaker 1>the investigation and my regrets. I promise the as we've

0:56:45.840 --> 0:56:49.680
<v Speaker 1>talked about, I promise the biological family and the foster

0:56:49.800 --> 0:56:52.759
<v Speaker 1>family that I would do everything humanly possible to find

0:56:52.760 --> 0:56:56.359
<v Speaker 1>out what's happened to Wim, and that opportunity was taken

0:56:56.360 --> 0:56:58.200
<v Speaker 1>away from it. I feel like I've let them down.

0:56:58.200 --> 0:57:02.680
<v Speaker 1>And there were other investigations too that have been pulled

0:57:02.719 --> 0:57:05.560
<v Speaker 1>off and haven't done any handover and all that, and

0:57:05.680 --> 0:57:09.279
<v Speaker 1>that hurts me. That's if I've got regrets, they're the

0:57:09.320 --> 0:57:12.960
<v Speaker 1>regrets I've got that I didn't finish. While I set

0:57:13.000 --> 0:57:15.560
<v Speaker 1>out the start having said that I will help these

0:57:15.600 --> 0:57:18.440
<v Speaker 1>people in any way I can outside the cops, that

0:57:18.440 --> 0:57:20.600
<v Speaker 1>commitment didn't end at the moment I walked out the door.

0:57:20.640 --> 0:57:22.600
<v Speaker 1>I didn't go, oh, well, it's nothing to do with me.

0:57:23.240 --> 0:57:26.200
<v Speaker 1>I spend that much time on the phone speaking to

0:57:26.240 --> 0:57:30.240
<v Speaker 1>people that have got problems where we investigations, and that

0:57:30.680 --> 0:57:32.720
<v Speaker 1>I haven't got the contacts in the police, which is

0:57:32.760 --> 0:57:35.000
<v Speaker 1>sad because I could filter them through if I had

0:57:35.040 --> 0:57:37.240
<v Speaker 1>the contacts in the police and say, hey, look, I've

0:57:37.240 --> 0:57:39.640
<v Speaker 1>been speaking to this person. I think there could be

0:57:39.680 --> 0:57:42.120
<v Speaker 1>something in it. I would love to have that relationship

0:57:42.120 --> 0:57:43.640
<v Speaker 1>with the police, but there's no one I can pick

0:57:43.720 --> 0:57:45.960
<v Speaker 1>up and speak to, pick up a phone and speak

0:57:46.000 --> 0:57:48.920
<v Speaker 1>to in the police. So I'm dealing with traumatized people now,

0:57:49.240 --> 0:57:52.400
<v Speaker 1>even though I'm outside the cops and trying to help

0:57:52.400 --> 0:57:54.200
<v Speaker 1>them and point them in a direction. And I'd like

0:57:54.280 --> 0:57:56.120
<v Speaker 1>to help every one of them, but it's got to

0:57:56.280 --> 0:57:59.520
<v Speaker 1>the point where I can't. I can't keep up with

0:57:59.560 --> 0:57:59.840
<v Speaker 1>it all.

0:58:00.080 --> 0:58:02.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, that doesn't sound like a very a very

0:58:03.040 --> 0:58:06.560
<v Speaker 2>annoying roadblock for the wheels of justice. If you've got

0:58:06.560 --> 0:58:08.080
<v Speaker 2>this information, you just want to pass it on.

0:58:08.680 --> 0:58:12.280
<v Speaker 1>Surely the whole thing is about getting getting justice. I

0:58:12.360 --> 0:58:14.200
<v Speaker 1>just want to do the podcast. I don't want to

0:58:14.200 --> 0:58:17.040
<v Speaker 1>do this stuff, but these people are genuine and they're

0:58:17.080 --> 0:58:18.920
<v Speaker 1>reaching out to me, so I help them where I can.

0:58:19.040 --> 0:58:21.400
<v Speaker 2>It must be hard to have that kind of relationship

0:58:21.480 --> 0:58:24.200
<v Speaker 2>with the police force when you've given so much to

0:58:24.320 --> 0:58:25.120
<v Speaker 2>it for so long.

0:58:28.280 --> 0:58:30.680
<v Speaker 1>It's a mind fuck if you ever think it. So

0:58:30.920 --> 0:58:33.320
<v Speaker 1>I just laugh about it and think I've got good memories.

0:58:33.400 --> 0:58:35.720
<v Speaker 1>I know the people that respect me and the people

0:58:35.720 --> 0:58:38.400
<v Speaker 1>that I respect, and I don't let it bog me

0:58:38.440 --> 0:58:42.560
<v Speaker 1>down because if if occasionally I start to overthink it

0:58:42.640 --> 0:58:47.680
<v Speaker 1>and someone will raise something about but this that it's

0:58:47.800 --> 0:58:50.320
<v Speaker 1>going to destroy me. It will destroy me with just

0:58:50.680 --> 0:58:53.800
<v Speaker 1>frustration and you know the unfairness of it all. But

0:58:54.040 --> 0:58:56.160
<v Speaker 1>it's not that way. And I look at it and

0:58:56.240 --> 0:58:59.360
<v Speaker 1>I think it helps when I see what some other

0:58:59.400 --> 0:59:02.160
<v Speaker 1>people have gone through, especially the victims of homicide. What

0:59:02.200 --> 0:59:05.800
<v Speaker 1>am I winging about? Like William Tyrrell's are the foster

0:59:05.920 --> 0:59:08.720
<v Speaker 1>parents and biological parents look at the ship they're caught

0:59:08.800 --> 0:59:12.720
<v Speaker 1>up in and I've got nothing to nothing to complain about.

0:59:12.760 --> 0:59:14.880
<v Speaker 1>You know, they've lost their lost their child.

0:59:14.960 --> 0:59:16.680
<v Speaker 2>So you know, but the ship you've gone through is

0:59:16.680 --> 0:59:17.640
<v Speaker 2>still valid.

0:59:17.360 --> 0:59:21.600
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, it is. And I'm not diminishing it. And

0:59:21.640 --> 0:59:25.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm not saying I'm impervious to feeling feeling the pain.

0:59:26.120 --> 0:59:29.600
<v Speaker 1>But when it's all said and done, I'm happy with

0:59:29.680 --> 0:59:31.360
<v Speaker 1>the career I had in the police. I'm proud of

0:59:31.360 --> 0:59:33.760
<v Speaker 1>the career I had in the police, and I'm enjoying

0:59:33.760 --> 0:59:36.240
<v Speaker 1>what I'm doing doing now. So I look at it,

0:59:36.320 --> 0:59:37.120
<v Speaker 1>look at it that way.

0:59:40.000 --> 0:59:41.640
<v Speaker 2>So what do you want to do now with the

0:59:45.800 --> 0:59:48.760
<v Speaker 2>horizon You've got any things that we're working on, or

0:59:48.760 --> 0:59:49.600
<v Speaker 2>you want to do.

0:59:50.840 --> 0:59:54.840
<v Speaker 1>A couple of things that have been. I've loved the

0:59:54.880 --> 0:59:58.240
<v Speaker 1>podcast world like I've really enjoyed that and just learning,

0:59:58.400 --> 1:00:01.760
<v Speaker 1>learning the trade, learning working in the media. I've enjoyed

1:00:01.760 --> 1:00:03.960
<v Speaker 1>writing the books. And a shout out to Dan Box

1:00:04.040 --> 1:00:09.120
<v Speaker 1>who I wrote the books, the two books that number

1:00:09.160 --> 1:00:11.000
<v Speaker 1>one best sellers. I should say.

1:00:11.160 --> 1:00:13.160
<v Speaker 2>Just I write mine on my own without any help,

1:00:13.200 --> 1:00:13.720
<v Speaker 2>so you.

1:00:13.720 --> 1:00:18.760
<v Speaker 1>Know, Dan, Dan wasn't much help. But I'm lying down.

1:00:18.800 --> 1:00:23.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm lying. But I enjoyed that. And I have got

1:00:23.040 --> 1:00:25.920
<v Speaker 1>a thought in my head for a third book. I

1:00:26.000 --> 1:00:28.840
<v Speaker 1>catch Gills as a memoir that was my life badness,

1:00:28.880 --> 1:00:33.360
<v Speaker 1>was understanding badness, and I don't know, I've got to

1:00:33.400 --> 1:00:36.080
<v Speaker 1>be in the right mindset to go down that path

1:00:36.160 --> 1:00:39.880
<v Speaker 1>and write that book, but I'm getting close to it.

1:00:40.040 --> 1:00:41.720
<v Speaker 1>I've got a sort of structure for it, so I'm

1:00:41.760 --> 1:00:44.760
<v Speaker 1>looking at that. A couple of other pictures to me

1:00:44.840 --> 1:00:48.560
<v Speaker 1>about the TV series and different things that are in

1:00:48.600 --> 1:00:51.720
<v Speaker 1>the works. And sometimes I do consultancy. I like hanging

1:00:51.720 --> 1:00:53.520
<v Speaker 1>out with creative creative types.

1:00:54.360 --> 1:00:57.000
<v Speaker 2>What's the kind of consultancy stuff. It's like as a

1:00:57.200 --> 1:00:59.000
<v Speaker 2>police procedural and they asked for your.

1:01:00.240 --> 1:01:03.480
<v Speaker 1>Fictional TV series and they send me the script and

1:01:03.520 --> 1:01:06.320
<v Speaker 1>I go through the script and go oh, look, that's

1:01:06.360 --> 1:01:07.960
<v Speaker 1>not really what we do, so give it a little

1:01:08.000 --> 1:01:12.280
<v Speaker 1>bit of realism to it, which is enjoyable. And one

1:01:12.320 --> 1:01:15.120
<v Speaker 1>thing I did one of the characters crazy fuck.

1:01:18.440 --> 1:01:20.120
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, that sort of stuff. Yeah.

1:01:20.800 --> 1:01:24.400
<v Speaker 1>One of the things that really challenging but so rewarding

1:01:24.520 --> 1:01:28.160
<v Speaker 1>was touring touring the country with Rob Carlton on the

1:01:28.200 --> 1:01:31.560
<v Speaker 1>Eye Catch Killers Show, and I had I was like

1:01:31.600 --> 1:01:33.880
<v Speaker 1>a sponge hanging out with Rob because he's been in

1:01:33.920 --> 1:01:35.880
<v Speaker 1>that industry for so long, and he taught me so

1:01:36.000 --> 1:01:39.280
<v Speaker 1>much about presence on the stage and timing and different

1:01:39.320 --> 1:01:42.280
<v Speaker 1>things and doing one show after another and traveling around

1:01:42.280 --> 1:01:42.640
<v Speaker 1>the country.

1:01:42.800 --> 1:01:44.760
<v Speaker 2>I needed to show at the Factory Theater. Where else

1:01:44.800 --> 1:01:45.760
<v Speaker 2>did you guys do shows?

1:01:46.200 --> 1:01:50.960
<v Speaker 1>We did, and more theater too, and Entertainment Center down

1:01:51.000 --> 1:01:56.040
<v Speaker 1>in Victoria and Brisbane, Yeah, all over the place. So

1:01:56.280 --> 1:01:59.240
<v Speaker 1>it was it was good. We did a capital city

1:01:59.280 --> 1:02:03.240
<v Speaker 1>tour and then a regional tour. But I enjoyed the

1:02:03.320 --> 1:02:06.640
<v Speaker 1>experience of doing live shows. But there's a lot of

1:02:06.680 --> 1:02:08.200
<v Speaker 1>effort that you've got to put into it, and a

1:02:08.200 --> 1:02:11.160
<v Speaker 1>lot of energy. I didn't appreciate how much energy and

1:02:11.160 --> 1:02:12.400
<v Speaker 1>the effort you've got to put into it.

1:02:12.480 --> 1:02:14.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, it's so much just before you get

1:02:14.200 --> 1:02:16.000
<v Speaker 2>on stage, right, just the nervous energy.

1:02:16.440 --> 1:02:20.800
<v Speaker 1>I've told this story, but our first show was at

1:02:20.920 --> 1:02:24.280
<v Speaker 1>Edmore Theater, sold out on the Saturday night, and we

1:02:24.360 --> 1:02:27.240
<v Speaker 1>had two weeks to prepare for the show, and I

1:02:27.320 --> 1:02:28.640
<v Speaker 1>thought it was going to be a Q and a

1:02:28.840 --> 1:02:31.480
<v Speaker 1>robed me sitting there and asking me questions and I

1:02:31.560 --> 1:02:34.680
<v Speaker 1>got this, and Rob's gone, there, this is the theater, stupid.

1:02:34.680 --> 1:02:37.200
<v Speaker 1>We're taking the audience on the journey. So I had

1:02:38.200 --> 1:02:42.440
<v Speaker 1>about thirty minutes of monologue to learn, timing, all sorts

1:02:42.440 --> 1:02:46.640
<v Speaker 1>of things. I was shitting myself before the show, and

1:02:47.360 --> 1:02:50.720
<v Speaker 1>even my manager Nick for them, He's gone because I'm

1:02:50.760 --> 1:02:53.240
<v Speaker 1>going m More Theater Saturday night. Like m Moore Theater,

1:02:53.320 --> 1:02:56.120
<v Speaker 1>I go see bands there. This is you know, was iconic.

1:02:57.720 --> 1:02:59.880
<v Speaker 1>This is my patch. I don't want to embarrass myself

1:03:00.120 --> 1:03:04.320
<v Speaker 1>this area. And Nick's air and he had a nervous

1:03:04.360 --> 1:03:06.280
<v Speaker 1>look on his face. And we've done the show and

1:03:06.720 --> 1:03:09.120
<v Speaker 1>it went over really well, and Nick's gone, Oh Jesus,

1:03:09.120 --> 1:03:10.760
<v Speaker 1>I was a bit worried about it. I didn't know

1:03:10.800 --> 1:03:13.240
<v Speaker 1>ever that it come off of. You promised me it

1:03:13.240 --> 1:03:13.919
<v Speaker 1>would come off.

1:03:14.040 --> 1:03:17.600
<v Speaker 2>But I'm not going to tell you that beforehand that would.

1:03:17.360 --> 1:03:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Probably would have sent me over the edge. Gary's not

1:03:19.920 --> 1:03:23.959
<v Speaker 1>coming out of the dressing room. But good stuff, And yeah,

1:03:24.520 --> 1:03:26.920
<v Speaker 1>it gave me a confidence. And because I still do

1:03:26.960 --> 1:03:29.440
<v Speaker 1>a lot of TV stuff and all that, and the

1:03:29.440 --> 1:03:33.160
<v Speaker 1>pressure of a live audience, you guys, and I say

1:03:33.200 --> 1:03:35.880
<v Speaker 1>it to you, guys, that would terrify me walking out

1:03:35.920 --> 1:03:38.160
<v Speaker 1>on stage on your own. And I can walk out

1:03:38.200 --> 1:03:41.400
<v Speaker 1>and tell stories and entertained, But to go out there

1:03:41.400 --> 1:03:43.960
<v Speaker 1>and I'm going to make you laugh? How do you

1:03:44.000 --> 1:03:44.680
<v Speaker 1>prepare before you?

1:03:44.840 --> 1:03:46.200
<v Speaker 2>I think in the same way that you're talking about

1:03:46.200 --> 1:03:49.320
<v Speaker 2>being addicted to the job, you know, I addicted to comedy.

1:03:49.360 --> 1:03:51.600
<v Speaker 2>I love it. Yeah, there are times when I absolutely

1:03:51.600 --> 1:03:53.960
<v Speaker 2>shit myself. You know, I'll have a quick beer and

1:03:54.040 --> 1:03:56.960
<v Speaker 2>I'll just go out and stage and I just trusted

1:03:57.000 --> 1:04:00.600
<v Speaker 2>my material, yeah, trusting my jokes. And then you know,

1:04:00.600 --> 1:04:03.320
<v Speaker 2>once people start laughing, you relax right into it. Yeah.

1:04:03.360 --> 1:04:06.280
<v Speaker 1>But that that You've got to hit it right, haven't you.

1:04:06.440 --> 1:04:09.560
<v Speaker 1>And sometimes I've been in the dressing room with big

1:04:09.600 --> 1:04:12.760
<v Speaker 1>shows and I'm just seeing, what the fuck have I

1:04:12.800 --> 1:04:13.960
<v Speaker 1>put myself in this position?

1:04:14.840 --> 1:04:16.680
<v Speaker 2>Can we cancel it? Hown?

1:04:16.800 --> 1:04:18.400
<v Speaker 1>I break my leg? If I break my leg?

1:04:18.960 --> 1:04:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, all that that's a normal part of the process.

1:04:22.400 --> 1:04:25.360
<v Speaker 2>And I think that the just between people like I

1:04:25.400 --> 1:04:27.840
<v Speaker 2>don't know how you do that, we have those same feelings.

1:04:27.880 --> 1:04:31.400
<v Speaker 2>You just force yourself to do it because because I

1:04:31.440 --> 1:04:32.600
<v Speaker 2>know that's what I'm meant to be doing.

1:04:32.800 --> 1:04:37.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that I really respect that you're doing finding

1:04:37.280 --> 1:04:38.920
<v Speaker 1>your passion when you say what I want to do

1:04:38.960 --> 1:04:41.360
<v Speaker 1>in life, I want to do something that I'm passionate about.

1:04:41.400 --> 1:04:44.479
<v Speaker 1>And I did that in the policing and I'm doing

1:04:44.520 --> 1:04:46.880
<v Speaker 1>it now and it makes life a lot easier, Like

1:04:47.280 --> 1:04:51.160
<v Speaker 1>it really does. I don't recall winging that I've got

1:04:51.160 --> 1:04:53.240
<v Speaker 1>to get up to bed, to get out of bed

1:04:53.280 --> 1:04:56.200
<v Speaker 1>to go the work. I was excited about going to work.

1:04:56.280 --> 1:04:58.920
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes I probably didn't feel like getting out, but I

1:04:58.960 --> 1:04:59.840
<v Speaker 1>was always excited.

1:05:00.040 --> 1:05:02.280
<v Speaker 2>How did this podcast come about? How you've been out

1:05:02.280 --> 1:05:03.880
<v Speaker 2>of the police force for how long? And then did

1:05:03.920 --> 1:05:06.320
<v Speaker 2>you approach someone to they approach you about doing it?

1:05:06.360 --> 1:05:10.360
<v Speaker 1>No, I got inundated with you. We've got the TV series,

1:05:10.640 --> 1:05:13.760
<v Speaker 1>We're doing this or doing that? All these proposals put

1:05:13.800 --> 1:05:17.560
<v Speaker 1>to me, and I'm sort of overwhelmed, and like I

1:05:17.640 --> 1:05:20.080
<v Speaker 1>really I am just sitting there done, going what am

1:05:20.120 --> 1:05:23.560
<v Speaker 1>I going to do? And like sixty minutes. It approach

1:05:23.680 --> 1:05:26.520
<v Speaker 1>me to get the contract with sixty minutes and then

1:05:26.600 --> 1:05:30.760
<v Speaker 1>news Corp and I'm speaking. I'm getting speaking to Rob

1:05:30.960 --> 1:05:33.880
<v Speaker 1>going what the hell? This is a world that you

1:05:33.960 --> 1:05:35.640
<v Speaker 1>understand better than I. And he said, You've got to

1:05:35.640 --> 1:05:38.120
<v Speaker 1>get an agent. I've gone got to get an agent.

1:05:38.160 --> 1:05:39.480
<v Speaker 1>That sounds like what a winker?

1:05:39.760 --> 1:05:43.240
<v Speaker 2>Like, Yeah, I've just cut awful when I've just.

1:05:43.200 --> 1:05:45.240
<v Speaker 1>Come from the cops and I've got to get an agent.

1:05:45.320 --> 1:05:48.000
<v Speaker 1>And he referred me to Nick for them. So I

1:05:48.040 --> 1:05:50.479
<v Speaker 1>sat down and spoke with Nick and He's gone, okay,

1:05:50.600 --> 1:05:53.240
<v Speaker 1>well there's a book. We'll get your contract with sixty

1:05:53.280 --> 1:05:56.600
<v Speaker 1>minutes with News Corp. The podcasts, and I'm just going, okay,

1:05:56.680 --> 1:05:59.960
<v Speaker 1>this is you think what a rollercoaster? Yeah, And then

1:06:00.880 --> 1:06:03.120
<v Speaker 1>Nick made the comment and it's pretty funny. On the

1:06:03.520 --> 1:06:06.000
<v Speaker 1>day I was in I think it was the second

1:06:06.000 --> 1:06:08.600
<v Speaker 1>time i'd gone into his office to talk about planning

1:06:08.640 --> 1:06:11.880
<v Speaker 1>my future career. He's got taken a call and it

1:06:12.000 --> 1:06:15.080
<v Speaker 1>was from Margaret Canoe and the barrister that said, the

1:06:15.600 --> 1:06:18.120
<v Speaker 1>police have got your circulators wanted if you don't give

1:06:18.160 --> 1:06:20.480
<v Speaker 1>yourself up. And Nick's gone, that's the first time I've

1:06:20.520 --> 1:06:22.480
<v Speaker 1>had a client in here about to be arrested.

1:06:22.600 --> 1:06:23.000
<v Speaker 2>How good?

1:06:23.120 --> 1:06:25.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so that was and he's gone, it's all good.

1:06:25.320 --> 1:06:29.160
<v Speaker 1>It's publicity, don't worry about So the podcast with news

1:06:29.160 --> 1:06:33.640
<v Speaker 1>Corp and also write some articles. That was terrifying for

1:06:33.840 --> 1:06:36.480
<v Speaker 1>me because I'm writing an article and it's on the

1:06:36.480 --> 1:06:38.840
<v Speaker 1>front page of the paper and Claire Harvey, who was

1:06:38.840 --> 1:06:43.000
<v Speaker 1>my mentor News Corp when I first started, said could

1:06:43.040 --> 1:06:44.920
<v Speaker 1>you write an article about this? And it was something

1:06:45.080 --> 1:06:48.200
<v Speaker 1>relevant to William Tyrrell or the ship that was going down?

1:06:49.160 --> 1:06:51.600
<v Speaker 1>So I did and I took about two days to

1:06:51.600 --> 1:06:54.000
<v Speaker 1>write this article. I was so nervous. It's like sending

1:06:54.040 --> 1:06:56.240
<v Speaker 1>off a UNI assignment that the whole world's going to read.

1:06:56.440 --> 1:06:57.880
<v Speaker 2>Is it going to be any good? Is it going

1:06:57.920 --> 1:06:58.520
<v Speaker 2>to be going to say?

1:06:58.520 --> 1:07:02.840
<v Speaker 1>It's ship to the true true story. I've sent it,

1:07:02.960 --> 1:07:05.240
<v Speaker 1>email it to her and I get a text back

1:07:05.360 --> 1:07:07.760
<v Speaker 1>and she's gone, got the article, and I've gone, oh,

1:07:07.840 --> 1:07:11.280
<v Speaker 1>that sounds really positive. And I've caught the train into

1:07:11.520 --> 1:07:14.640
<v Speaker 1>Holtstreet and walked up there and Clear's in her office

1:07:14.680 --> 1:07:18.200
<v Speaker 1>and she's got coffee spilt on the desk. I'm sort

1:07:18.200 --> 1:07:20.840
<v Speaker 1>of sidling in there just to try and get some feedback,

1:07:21.040 --> 1:07:23.920
<v Speaker 1>and she's gone you can actually write I spelt my

1:07:23.960 --> 1:07:25.880
<v Speaker 1>coffee I was reading it, and you can actually write

1:07:25.880 --> 1:07:26.920
<v Speaker 1>I've got oh, Thank Christ.

1:07:27.040 --> 1:07:28.600
<v Speaker 2>She could have added a couple extra words of the

1:07:28.600 --> 1:07:31.240
<v Speaker 2>text message, but it was.

1:07:31.760 --> 1:07:35.520
<v Speaker 1>But I learned a lot, and people like Claire and

1:07:36.320 --> 1:07:39.120
<v Speaker 1>Dan and other people have helped me to write and

1:07:39.200 --> 1:07:41.600
<v Speaker 1>understand that you've got to be descriptive because I was

1:07:41.840 --> 1:07:46.120
<v Speaker 1>very factual in policing. Arrived at the premises. Now it

1:07:46.200 --> 1:07:48.640
<v Speaker 1>was a cold, windy night when I arrived at the premises,

1:07:48.760 --> 1:07:49.440
<v Speaker 1>that type of thing.

1:07:49.520 --> 1:07:50.160
<v Speaker 2>So you've got.

1:07:50.080 --> 1:07:53.160
<v Speaker 1>To be descriptive in the way that you described things.

1:07:53.160 --> 1:07:56.680
<v Speaker 1>So that that's been good and it's made me. I'm

1:07:56.720 --> 1:07:59.240
<v Speaker 1>proud of the articles that I've written, and some have

1:07:59.320 --> 1:08:03.520
<v Speaker 1>been very meaningful to me about issues that I'm writing about.

1:08:03.800 --> 1:08:07.640
<v Speaker 1>And then the podcast. They said to get your mate Jason,

1:08:07.680 --> 1:08:11.000
<v Speaker 1>and we'll go to a pub and we'll record a podcast.

1:08:11.040 --> 1:08:14.760
<v Speaker 1>And that's basically. We started recording at pubs, did the

1:08:14.760 --> 1:08:18.639
<v Speaker 1>first season and could not stand drinking from eight o'clock

1:08:18.680 --> 1:08:20.280
<v Speaker 1>in the morning because we'd have a couple of beers

1:08:20.320 --> 1:08:23.280
<v Speaker 1>to create the atmosphere. Fly on the wall stuff. But

1:08:23.360 --> 1:08:26.240
<v Speaker 1>I was interviewing old cops or cops I've worked with.

1:08:26.320 --> 1:08:29.080
<v Speaker 1>And after we've finished the podcast two hours and I

1:08:29.120 --> 1:08:31.760
<v Speaker 1>don't know, three beers, we'd get too loose if we

1:08:31.800 --> 1:08:34.360
<v Speaker 1>went past that, Let's have some lunch. And so by

1:08:34.360 --> 1:08:38.480
<v Speaker 1>two o'clock in the afternoon, I'm plasted and I'm thinking.

1:08:38.360 --> 1:08:40.400
<v Speaker 2>I can't do this. And that's how we go back

1:08:40.400 --> 1:08:42.760
<v Speaker 2>to being a rookie cop going out for Chinese again. Yeah,

1:08:43.160 --> 1:08:44.160
<v Speaker 2>and so that's.

1:08:44.000 --> 1:08:47.360
<v Speaker 1>Where we've moved into the studio and just enjoyed it

1:08:47.439 --> 1:08:49.880
<v Speaker 1>and enjoyed the journey of it.

1:08:50.280 --> 1:08:52.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I can't imagine that you thought when you

1:08:52.800 --> 1:08:55.240
<v Speaker 2>started that it was going to go as long as.

1:08:55.160 --> 1:08:58.559
<v Speaker 1>It has no Well that's I really I thought, well,

1:08:58.560 --> 1:09:01.160
<v Speaker 1>this is lucky. I've just got some opportunities.

1:09:02.000 --> 1:09:02.920
<v Speaker 2>But I've.

1:09:04.200 --> 1:09:06.679
<v Speaker 1>I put the effort in because I'm a big believer

1:09:06.720 --> 1:09:08.559
<v Speaker 1>in paying your dues. And I think I came into

1:09:09.479 --> 1:09:12.640
<v Speaker 1>media world on a level that I didn't deserve, like

1:09:13.000 --> 1:09:15.760
<v Speaker 1>as in because of what I'd done. I'm sort of

1:09:15.880 --> 1:09:17.640
<v Speaker 1>pitch there. If I write an article, it can be

1:09:17.680 --> 1:09:20.200
<v Speaker 1>on the front page of the paper. Better journalists and

1:09:20.520 --> 1:09:22.519
<v Speaker 1>I could take a long time to get an article

1:09:22.520 --> 1:09:23.679
<v Speaker 1>on the front page of the paper.

1:09:24.120 --> 1:09:26.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I think that's like a very common kind

1:09:26.439 --> 1:09:29.439
<v Speaker 2>of imposter syndrome, right that you think that, but it's

1:09:29.479 --> 1:09:32.640
<v Speaker 2>the reality is you you that's happening because you have

1:09:32.680 --> 1:09:34.960
<v Speaker 2>a level of insight that a few people have.

1:09:35.800 --> 1:09:39.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, yes, when I'm talking about the stuff that I know,

1:09:40.040 --> 1:09:42.559
<v Speaker 1>but that that you mentioned imposter syndrome, and I have

1:09:42.640 --> 1:09:45.519
<v Speaker 1>that every single day. Every time I walk into this studio,

1:09:45.560 --> 1:09:48.280
<v Speaker 1>I've got imposter syndrome thinking what the hell am I

1:09:48.400 --> 1:09:48.880
<v Speaker 1>doing this?

1:09:49.040 --> 1:09:52.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, as a great comedian, I won't name that. I

1:09:52.640 --> 1:09:53.840
<v Speaker 2>was told him the same thing that I have in

1:09:53.920 --> 1:09:55.559
<v Speaker 2>poster syndrome. It's like, mate, that the day that you

1:09:55.560 --> 1:09:57.200
<v Speaker 2>don't feel it, there's a day you lose it. You

1:09:57.240 --> 1:10:01.600
<v Speaker 2>lose it one. Well, I think we've gone through a

1:10:01.600 --> 1:10:05.800
<v Speaker 2>fair few of the audience questions. I think the only

1:10:05.840 --> 1:10:10.200
<v Speaker 2>one left really is this Christmas time? What's the shittest

1:10:10.280 --> 1:10:11.879
<v Speaker 2>Christmas present that you've ever received?

1:10:12.720 --> 1:10:14.719
<v Speaker 1>No Christmas present that's pretty lonely.

1:10:15.120 --> 1:10:19.000
<v Speaker 2>But that's bad. That is bad.

1:10:20.680 --> 1:10:24.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the grandmother that keeps buying your underpants even when

1:10:24.320 --> 1:10:27.280
<v Speaker 1>you're in your thirties or whatever, that type of thing,

1:10:27.280 --> 1:10:29.320
<v Speaker 1>but that they're sweet, sweet presents.

1:10:29.640 --> 1:10:32.320
<v Speaker 2>No, i'mndies is pretty bad. I used to get houndies

1:10:32.360 --> 1:10:34.000
<v Speaker 2>and a pack of you know cards. I think for

1:10:34.120 --> 1:10:35.760
<v Speaker 2>my birthday, I was like, what is this?

1:10:35.920 --> 1:10:40.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, no, well, okay, wine that right back. My

1:10:40.520 --> 1:10:42.559
<v Speaker 1>father wouldn't let me have a push bike till I

1:10:42.600 --> 1:10:46.440
<v Speaker 1>was about thirteen. And by the time I've got the pushbike,

1:10:46.479 --> 1:10:49.120
<v Speaker 1>everyone's outgrowing the pushbike. So I come out like the

1:10:49.200 --> 1:10:51.200
<v Speaker 1>kids you're meant to get the push bikes at six

1:10:51.360 --> 1:10:54.519
<v Speaker 1>or seven, where you've got your new shiny bike. I'm

1:10:54.560 --> 1:10:57.519
<v Speaker 1>thirteen and my mates going, what your push bike? Aren't

1:10:57.560 --> 1:10:59.200
<v Speaker 1>you too old for that type situation?

1:10:59.360 --> 1:11:02.479
<v Speaker 2>So that yeah, why wouldn't he let you have a pushboke?

1:11:02.560 --> 1:11:02.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh?

1:11:02.760 --> 1:11:07.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I probably did something stupid. Yeah he

1:11:07.880 --> 1:11:08.800
<v Speaker 2>had his own rules.

1:11:08.880 --> 1:11:13.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he had his own rules. But no Christmas I'm not.

1:11:13.479 --> 1:11:17.040
<v Speaker 1>I get called scrooge scrooge a lot on Christmas, but

1:11:17.080 --> 1:11:19.639
<v Speaker 1>I try to embrace the Christmas spirit and.

1:11:20.160 --> 1:11:22.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, wait, you're a scrooge.

1:11:22.800 --> 1:11:26.120
<v Speaker 1>No I give presents, But have I got a Christmas

1:11:26.160 --> 1:11:27.200
<v Speaker 1>tree up in my place yet?

1:11:27.320 --> 1:11:27.360
<v Speaker 2>No?

1:11:27.640 --> 1:11:31.760
<v Speaker 1>I haven't. Come on mate, Well, my kids begged me

1:11:31.840 --> 1:11:34.280
<v Speaker 1>when I'd separated from my first wife, and the kids

1:11:34.280 --> 1:11:36.960
<v Speaker 1>are six or seven, that that age where Christmas is

1:11:37.000 --> 1:11:39.840
<v Speaker 1>important to them. I am a ship dad, I'm a

1:11:39.840 --> 1:11:43.600
<v Speaker 1>ship husband. The relationships falling apart, I'm going to.

1:11:43.600 --> 1:11:44.160
<v Speaker 2>Do the right thing.

1:11:44.200 --> 1:11:46.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to buy them the biggest Christmas tree you

1:11:46.320 --> 1:11:48.360
<v Speaker 1>can get in the crappy little place I was renting

1:11:48.400 --> 1:11:50.160
<v Speaker 1>at the time, so I bought one of those real

1:11:50.720 --> 1:11:53.880
<v Speaker 1>pine tree ones. Didn't have any tools there because they

1:11:53.920 --> 1:11:56.840
<v Speaker 1>were at my ex wife's house. Had a knife and

1:11:57.000 --> 1:12:00.160
<v Speaker 1>it wouldn't fit in the wouldn't fit in the that

1:12:00.360 --> 1:12:03.240
<v Speaker 1>a ready place. So I've got this bread knife, you know,

1:12:03.280 --> 1:12:05.880
<v Speaker 1>with a sarrayed age, trying to cut through, cut this

1:12:05.960 --> 1:12:08.400
<v Speaker 1>tree down. I was there for about two or three hours.

1:12:08.600 --> 1:12:11.080
<v Speaker 1>We're living near the beach. The kids just walked off,

1:12:11.120 --> 1:12:13.080
<v Speaker 1>disappointed and went down to the beach, and I'm there

1:12:13.080 --> 1:12:15.559
<v Speaker 1>with this Christmas tree trying to cut it down. Never

1:12:15.680 --> 1:12:18.880
<v Speaker 1>have bought the live Christmas tree since then, traumatized by it.

1:12:19.000 --> 1:12:21.759
<v Speaker 2>You gave it one go. I gave it my best shot.

1:12:21.960 --> 1:12:24.479
<v Speaker 1>It was you try cutting down the Christmas tree or

1:12:24.520 --> 1:12:26.880
<v Speaker 1>trimming up a Christmas tree with a butter knife.

1:12:26.960 --> 1:12:30.960
<v Speaker 2>Luckily, I've had yeah, mum or girlfriends that have done

1:12:31.000 --> 1:12:31.880
<v Speaker 2>the heavy lifting for me.

1:12:34.600 --> 1:12:38.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, it is what it is. But I'm looking

1:12:38.520 --> 1:12:41.680
<v Speaker 1>forward to Christmas. I get to this point at the

1:12:41.760 --> 1:12:44.360
<v Speaker 1>end of the year with the podcast, I really feel

1:12:44.439 --> 1:12:47.479
<v Speaker 1>like I'm about to fall over the line. Yeah, I

1:12:47.520 --> 1:12:50.400
<v Speaker 1>aim for the year, and it's nice to get across

1:12:50.439 --> 1:12:54.720
<v Speaker 1>the line. Delivered what we wanted to deliver. Proud of

1:12:54.760 --> 1:12:56.760
<v Speaker 1>the people we've had on the podcast, had a lot

1:12:56.800 --> 1:12:58.080
<v Speaker 1>of fun, learnt a lot, and.

1:12:58.360 --> 1:12:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you can put your feet up for a little

1:13:00.280 --> 1:13:01.400
<v Speaker 2>and I know that you're not going to get a

1:13:01.439 --> 1:13:03.160
<v Speaker 2>call about having to go to a crime scene.

1:13:03.320 --> 1:13:06.880
<v Speaker 1>And and let's face I haven't been charged this year,

1:13:07.400 --> 1:13:09.519
<v Speaker 1>which is always always a good thing.

1:13:09.600 --> 1:13:13.240
<v Speaker 2>Neither have I. Gary, There you go, my ico. I

1:13:13.560 --> 1:13:16.120
<v Speaker 2>was on a two and a half year intensive corrections

1:13:16.200 --> 1:13:19.920
<v Speaker 2>order and that finishes December twenty three, and so that

1:13:20.280 --> 1:13:21.800
<v Speaker 2>as part of that, it had in writing that I

1:13:21.840 --> 1:13:24.160
<v Speaker 2>wasn't allowed to commit any more offenses for two and

1:13:24.160 --> 1:13:27.160
<v Speaker 2>a half years. So my understanding, I haven't checked it,

1:13:27.160 --> 1:13:28.760
<v Speaker 2>but my understanding is I'm allowed to go back to

1:13:28.800 --> 1:13:31.960
<v Speaker 2>drug dealing from December twenty four. I can give you

1:13:32.000 --> 1:13:34.280
<v Speaker 2>free legal advice. That's exactly what it means.

1:13:34.320 --> 1:13:36.400
<v Speaker 1>So you just run with that, and when you get

1:13:36.439 --> 1:13:38.599
<v Speaker 1>locked up, just say Gary Jubilan said, it's all right,

1:13:39.120 --> 1:13:43.960
<v Speaker 1>straight yeah, yeah, that'll.

1:13:42.120 --> 1:13:43.320
<v Speaker 2>Carry carry a lot of weight.

1:13:43.400 --> 1:13:46.960
<v Speaker 1>But look, I gotta thank you for coming in and

1:13:47.640 --> 1:13:48.000
<v Speaker 1>doing this.

1:13:48.360 --> 1:13:49.840
<v Speaker 2>I think it's a yeah.

1:13:50.040 --> 1:13:52.960
<v Speaker 1>As one of the guests we had on when Emily

1:13:53.040 --> 1:13:55.960
<v Speaker 1>suggested this, your name came up and I'm gone, yeah,

1:13:56.040 --> 1:13:56.879
<v Speaker 1>let's do it.

1:13:56.760 --> 1:13:58.519
<v Speaker 2>My pleasure. Mate. It's been a lot of fun and

1:13:58.680 --> 1:14:01.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure hopefully you're aians enjoyed hearing a bit more

1:14:01.320 --> 1:14:03.920
<v Speaker 2>about your your backstory and some of your your your

1:14:03.920 --> 1:14:06.559
<v Speaker 2>insights into all this stuff. It's normally I catch killers,

1:14:06.560 --> 1:14:11.120
<v Speaker 2>but today we caught Gary. Goodbye the finish. Thanks here, mate,