WEBVTT - The best podcasts of 2025

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Ruby, tell me about what you've been listening to

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<v Speaker 1>this year.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been listening to a lot of things this year.

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<v Speaker 2>To be really upfront about it, a lot of it

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<v Speaker 2>is Australian focused, and a lot of it is investigative journalism,

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<v Speaker 2>media critique and true crime. Those are my interests and

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<v Speaker 2>I have not strayed very far from them this year.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't want something a little bit lighter than that.

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<v Speaker 1>You heard it here first. Ruby Jones is into journalism

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<v Speaker 1>and shows about journalism. Today, she's bringing you her favorite

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<v Speaker 1>podcasts of the year, and while they don't stray too

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<v Speaker 1>far when it comes to themes, she's mixing it up

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<v Speaker 1>on format, recommending everything from immersive narrative series to friends

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<v Speaker 1>with chat shows. I'm Daniel James and you're listening to

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<v Speaker 1>seven AM today Ruby Jones with her five favorite podcasts

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<v Speaker 1>of twenty twenty five. It's Friday, December twenty six. I

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<v Speaker 1>hope the food Coma is treating you well.

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<v Speaker 2>So the first podcast that I wanted to talk about

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<v Speaker 2>was a series from Background Briefing, which is the ABC show.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a five part series called The Invisible Killer.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, the perfect place to be a serial killer.

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<v Speaker 3>An aged care home.

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<v Speaker 1>Background Briefing is a great podcast. What can you tell

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<v Speaker 1>me about the Invisible Killer?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? They did a lot of good series this year,

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<v Speaker 2>but this one really stood out to me. So there's

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<v Speaker 2>five episodes. It's hosted by Anne Connolly. She's an incredible journalist.

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<v Speaker 2>So she's best known for her twenty eighteen four Corners,

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<v Speaker 2>which was all about abuse and neglect in Australian nursing homes.

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<v Speaker 2>And that episode of four Corners is so famous because

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<v Speaker 2>before it even went to air, the Prime Minister at

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<v Speaker 2>the time, Scott Morrison, announced a Royal commission into aged care,

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<v Speaker 2>so she's got a lot of credibility in this space.

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<v Speaker 2>And this series is also about aged care. It focuses

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<v Speaker 2>on one particular nursing home in New South Wales, in Newcastle,

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<v Speaker 2>and then her case kind of hones in on one

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<v Speaker 2>particular man who worked in that center.

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<v Speaker 3>The search is on the firm was we had more

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<v Speaker 3>than likely a possible serial killer. We were very concerned

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<v Speaker 3>there was going to.

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<v Speaker 4>Be more and the police race against the clock to

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<v Speaker 4>find out who did it.

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<v Speaker 5>I believe that I would say prime suspect.

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<v Speaker 2>And what I thought was so clever about this series is.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really gripping. It really follows a lot of the

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<v Speaker 2>kind of true crime serialized formats, but usually, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like a young woman who's gone missing, a beautiful

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<v Speaker 2>young woman, whereas in this case, you've got these elderly

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<v Speaker 2>people who I think a lot of the time, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>people have forgotten about. And I think what she really

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<v Speaker 2>does in this series is show us how easy a

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<v Speaker 2>target some of these people are in these homes for

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<v Speaker 2>a person who in this case is potentially a serial killer.

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<v Speaker 1>So one of the things that gets a my goat

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<v Speaker 1>about true chrime podcast is that you listen to hours

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<v Speaker 1>and hours and hours worth of a series and it

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<v Speaker 1>reveals nothing new about the case. So does this particular

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<v Speaker 1>podcast actually reveal anything new about these killings, these murders. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that was always the danger in this case

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<v Speaker 2>because a lot of where the story begins has already

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<v Speaker 2>been reported. But I think what she does that's new

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<v Speaker 2>is that she actually speaks to the person who is accused.

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<v Speaker 2>He's in prison, so I don't want to kind of

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<v Speaker 2>put any spoilers in, but she gets in touch with him,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's really fascinating hearing her trying to work out

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<v Speaker 2>whether or not she thinks he's done it, and what

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<v Speaker 2>his motivations might be and what he's trying to extract

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<v Speaker 2>out of her. So that's really interesting. But then she

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<v Speaker 2>does push the case further because he is accused of

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<v Speaker 2>three killings, but she starts to look into previous places

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<v Speaker 2>that he's worked and to figure out if there were

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<v Speaker 2>an unexplained deaths there. And I think that what becomes

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<v Speaker 2>clear is that there are a lot of unexplained deaths

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<v Speaker 2>in aged care.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so that was the invisible killer by background briefing

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<v Speaker 1>sounds fascinating. What was your second pick?

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<v Speaker 2>So my second pick is actually two podcasts. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's been a really interesting year for independent podcasts, and

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<v Speaker 2>there's two that have launched this year that are kind

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<v Speaker 2>of focused around the media industry and media criticism. So

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<v Speaker 2>the first is called We Used to Be Journos and

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<v Speaker 2>the second is Lanme.

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<v Speaker 1>Stream tell Me about used to be Journals.

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<v Speaker 2>We used to Be Journos as Jan Fran and Antonettler.

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<v Speaker 6>Two, We're a media and critique show, where it's a

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<v Speaker 6>media literacy and critique show, and it might be worth

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<v Speaker 6>I guess, just breaking it down for some of our

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<v Speaker 6>listeners how this story came about and how it ended

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<v Speaker 6>up published, because it's got a few twists and turns crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>Little unusual. So people probably know jan Fran from her

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<v Speaker 2>time at SBS and she did a lot of commentary

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<v Speaker 2>on social media. She's hugely popular and Antonette toof or,

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<v Speaker 2>she's been on seven Am before, but she also has

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<v Speaker 2>worked at ten at the ABC at SBS, and she's

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<v Speaker 2>obviously been in the headlines more recently after being unlawfully

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<v Speaker 2>terminated from a role at the ABC after sharing a

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<v Speaker 2>Human Rights Watch post, and so their podcast was sort

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<v Speaker 2>of launched off the back of that case. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think what's really great about it is that they together

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<v Speaker 2>have so much knowledge of the way the industry works,

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<v Speaker 2>and so when they really kind of go deep on

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<v Speaker 2>the way that certain stories are covered, and sometimes breaks

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<v Speaker 2>stories of their own, there's a lot of credibility there

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<v Speaker 2>to back them up.

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<v Speaker 1>And the second one, lind Stream, was that about.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's os freaking Scott Mitchell, who also have a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of experience across different newsrooms the Abcvice nine and

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<v Speaker 2>of course both of them once were editors of this

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<v Speaker 2>show and as a result, both of them are good

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<v Speaker 2>friends of mine as well, full disclosure, And I think

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<v Speaker 2>like they used to be, Journo's strength is that you

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<v Speaker 2>can tell that they have been friends for a long time,

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<v Speaker 2>just like Jan Fran and Antonette have and so these

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<v Speaker 2>kind of conversations that they're having around the way the

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<v Speaker 2>media works, you can kind of hear that they've been

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<v Speaker 2>having those conversations probably for a long time without you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Mike's in front of them. Five hundred billion dollars could

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<v Speaker 2>be wiped from property values.

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<v Speaker 1>That's incredible. Did I even mentioned climate or was that

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<v Speaker 1>just it?

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<v Speaker 5>That's just it, that's no mention.

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<v Speaker 6>I actually think news dot com have cracked it there,

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<v Speaker 6>Like if the riddle is how to get people to

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<v Speaker 6>read about climate.

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<v Speaker 2>Change fully fully. The industry is obviously fragmenting. There is

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<v Speaker 2>a lack of trust. We know that the industry is

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<v Speaker 2>changing really rapidly. So I'm really curious to see how

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<v Speaker 2>podcasts like this go and whether you know, they can

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<v Speaker 2>kind of maintain success, whether they continue to exist, whether

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<v Speaker 2>they can make money. It's a really difficult time to

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<v Speaker 2>launch an independent media company. So I think one of

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<v Speaker 2>the reasons that I'm keeping a on what they're doing

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<v Speaker 2>is because I think their success or not will tell

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<v Speaker 2>us a lot about the future of the media industry.

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<v Speaker 1>I trust you, Ruby, want that on the record. Coming up,

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<v Speaker 1>A journey into the Australian Outback. Okay, Ruby, what's your

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<v Speaker 1>third pick?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let's go back to beautifully produced, expansive narrative podcasting.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of my favorites of this year was Expanse

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<v Speaker 2>nowhere Man. So that's another ABC production.

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<v Speaker 5>It's August nineteen ninety nine and something strange is happening

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<v Speaker 5>in the Australian Outback.

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<v Speaker 4>When I got there was just organized chaos. It's one

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<v Speaker 4>of the most extensive searchers ever mounted in the Great

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<v Speaker 4>Sandy Desert.

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<v Speaker 2>The story begins in nineteen ninety nine. There's this young

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<v Speaker 2>American man, Robert B. Begooki. So he he basically left

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<v Speaker 2>his bike by the side of the road and he

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<v Speaker 2>walked out into the Great Sandy Desert in WA and

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<v Speaker 2>he was out there for a very long time. There

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<v Speaker 2>was a huge media circus around his disappearance. And then

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<v Speaker 2>in I think twenty twenty two, the host of this podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>Aaron Park, she becomes interested in what had happened to him.

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<v Speaker 2>Why would a fit, intelligent young man with everything to

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<v Speaker 2>live for, plunge into one of the deadliest landscapes in

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<v Speaker 2>Australia on purpose, and I think kind of one of

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<v Speaker 2>the early things that really interested me about it was

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<v Speaker 2>the way that she kind of describes the media circus

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<v Speaker 2>around his disappearance. It was the nineties, which is sort

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<v Speaker 2>of the boom time for you know, current affairs television,

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<v Speaker 2>and when he's actually found, it's by a Channel nine

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<v Speaker 2>helicopter and they kind of descend on him. He'd been

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<v Speaker 2>gone for six weeks, he hasn't eaten for six weeks,

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<v Speaker 2>and they kind of just like land in front of

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<v Speaker 2>him and just film the entire thing. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>at one point they kind of give him a banana

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<v Speaker 2>and then they film him trying to eat it and

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<v Speaker 2>he's like not able to and it sounds highly distressing,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think that that was kind of the way

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<v Speaker 2>the media industry worked at that point in time. They're

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<v Speaker 2>allowed into his hospital. What Park does is she kind

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<v Speaker 2>of pushes it a lot further and tries to answer

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<v Speaker 2>this question that I don't think ever really has been

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<v Speaker 2>answered because until this point Bigookie has never done any interviews,

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<v Speaker 2>which is sort of why he chose to go out

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<v Speaker 2>into the desert, what he was trying to achieve, and

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<v Speaker 2>whether or not he actually kind of found what he

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<v Speaker 2>was looking for.

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<v Speaker 1>So, without giving away too many spoilers or those spoilers

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<v Speaker 1>at all, where does that lead us? Where does that

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<v Speaker 1>take the investigation?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's really interesting. So she spends a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>time trying to track down Bigookie. She's like, this podcast

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<v Speaker 2>takes place over I think five or six years, but

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<v Speaker 2>she does end up going all the way to Alaska

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<v Speaker 2>where he lives, that's where he's from, and then sort

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<v Speaker 2>of circles back again to Australia, and this story ultimately

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<v Speaker 2>becomes about Australia, about the outback and the kind of

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<v Speaker 2>way that people, white people and Indigenous people see the desert,

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<v Speaker 2>the things that white people in particular project onto it,

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<v Speaker 2>and what happens when someone who has no real understanding

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<v Speaker 2>of that kind of chooses to use that landscape is

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<v Speaker 2>a way to answer some of their own kind of

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<v Speaker 2>spiritual questions, I suppose.

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<v Speaker 1>So the landscape of the Great Sandy Desert and Alaska

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<v Speaker 1>are kind of characters in this.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a very visual story, really, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>that they do a very good job of conveying that

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<v Speaker 2>it's really beautifully produced. The soundscapes are beautiful, the narration

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<v Speaker 2>is wonderful. Aaron is a great person to take you

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<v Speaker 2>on this journey, and you really do feel like you

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<v Speaker 2>are in these places.

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<v Speaker 5>I haven't been here long, but this place, interior Alaska,

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<v Speaker 5>it already feels strange. The non stop sunlight and the cold,

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<v Speaker 5>prickly air, the snow peaked mountain ranges towering so high

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<v Speaker 5>they make the small smattering of city buildings and its

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<v Speaker 5>people feel in significant.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so that was expanse nowhere man by the AVC.

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<v Speaker 1>You were gracious enough to choose one overseas podcast in

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<v Speaker 1>your mentions for this year, the latest season of In

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<v Speaker 1>the Dark.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So, in the Dark is one of the most

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<v Speaker 2>well regarded long form narrative series in the US, I think,

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<v Speaker 2>but I remember listening to the first series back in

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<v Speaker 2>twenty sixteen, which looks into the abduction of this eleven

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<v Speaker 2>year old boy, Jacob Weddling, and as it's progressed, various

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<v Speaker 2>seasons have done really well. Season two looked into the

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<v Speaker 2>case of Curtis Flowers, who is this black man from

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<v Speaker 2>Mississippi facing execution. He was tried six times for the

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<v Speaker 2>same crime. Then after the podcast was released, he was free.

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<v Speaker 2>So the show's won numerous awards, there's been several seasons,

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<v Speaker 2>it's got a lot of credibility. So when the new

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<v Speaker 2>season was announced, I was intrigued, So.

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<v Speaker 1>What is this new season about?

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<v Speaker 2>So this season looks into a historical case from the UK.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's the nineteen eighty five White House farm murders.

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<v Speaker 4>The story I want to tell you begins here deep

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<v Speaker 4>in the English countryside.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, here's the farmhouse and the case is horrific. So

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<v Speaker 2>there's five family members who were massacred. They were all

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<v Speaker 2>shot to death inside a locked manner. There's been books

0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.480
<v Speaker 2>written about this, there's been documentaries, there's been TV series.

0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.960
<v Speaker 2>So it's a kind of interesting thing to revisit something

0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.640
<v Speaker 2>that has had so much coverage, I think, So.

0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.120
<v Speaker 1>What was the what was the impetus for revisiting it.

0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so at the very beginning you kind of learned

0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:38.760
<v Speaker 2>that the journalist Hardi Blake has had this kind of

0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.040
<v Speaker 2>new tip off about the case, and what she's really

0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:43.960
<v Speaker 2>doing is trying to work out whether or not there

0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:45.760
<v Speaker 2>has been a wrong full conviction.

0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:51.040
<v Speaker 4>The story I uncovered challenged what I thought I knew

0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:55.760
<v Speaker 4>not only about the murders at white House Farm, but

0:12:55.880 --> 0:13:02.200
<v Speaker 4>also about the police, the judiciary, the whole British legal establishment.

0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.439
<v Speaker 2>It is really interesting because you think something like this

0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.840
<v Speaker 2>must have been so exhaustively covered and they can't possibly

0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:13.640
<v Speaker 2>be anything new in it. But it does seem like

0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:20.880
<v Speaker 2>that there was this real momentum behind I guess the

0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:25.160
<v Speaker 2>attempt to sort of place one person be accused as

0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:28.400
<v Speaker 2>the person who's responsible. And you know, maybe some of

0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:30.960
<v Speaker 2>those reasons are valid, but the further along you get,

0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:33.040
<v Speaker 2>the more you realize that there's perhaps a lot of

0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.680
<v Speaker 2>prejudice going on about the person involved.

0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:38.200
<v Speaker 1>There's a do a good job of actually sort of

0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:41.760
<v Speaker 1>paying respect to the victims of the crime. So one

0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.040
<v Speaker 1>of the things I find with true crime podcast is

0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.640
<v Speaker 1>that the victims of any given true crime podcast are

0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.280
<v Speaker 1>often seen as still like two dimensional. Yeah.

0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.080
<v Speaker 2>I think that's a really interesting point. And it's hard

0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.800
<v Speaker 2>because at certain points they kind of do become archetypes,

0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.400
<v Speaker 2>I think, and that is because obviously their voices are lost.

0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:02.920
<v Speaker 2>It's everyone else's voices in the podcast, it's not the

0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.200
<v Speaker 2>voices of the people who've died. But I think she

0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:10.640
<v Speaker 2>does a very good job of trying to put particularly

0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:16.439
<v Speaker 2>the mother in this series, trying to really understand her

0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:21.360
<v Speaker 2>life and her struggles. I mean, it's a very dark story,

0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:23.600
<v Speaker 2>but I think that she does try and kind of

0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.360
<v Speaker 2>tell it with a level of nuance that probably was

0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:30.160
<v Speaker 2>not used back in the eighties when this story first

0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:30.600
<v Speaker 2>came out.

0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:48.080
<v Speaker 1>Coming out Everyone's favorite pomp and Finally, Ruby, you've given

0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:50.880
<v Speaker 1>a special mention to Luis the Roue's interview series.

0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:53.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so he's up to season six now, and I

0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:57.040
<v Speaker 2>know that everyone loves Louis Thrue, but there's a reason.

0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:02.200
<v Speaker 3>Hello, Oh that was too loud. Sorry, Hello, it's me,

0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:03.320
<v Speaker 3>Louis Theroum.

0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:03.960
<v Speaker 1>How are you.

0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.640
<v Speaker 3>I'm delighted to say my podcast is back for a

0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:08.680
<v Speaker 3>brand new series.

0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:13.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, he's so curious and so self effacing and

0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:17.080
<v Speaker 2>managers to ask these, you know, really straightforward questions that

0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.320
<v Speaker 2>need to be asked in such a disarming way. And

0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.440
<v Speaker 2>I think obviously by this point in his career, he's

0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:25.680
<v Speaker 2>really helped by the fact that almost everyone who comes

0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.280
<v Speaker 2>on his show knows and trusts him. So he's starting

0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:31.440
<v Speaker 2>off with this kind of built in trust from his subjects.

0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:34.000
<v Speaker 2>But he still just has these kind of pre wheeling

0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:38.800
<v Speaker 2>conversations in which you always learn something new. And I

0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:41.080
<v Speaker 2>also just think that the people that he choose us

0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.520
<v Speaker 2>to come on the show, the kind of the range

0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.200
<v Speaker 2>of subjects is really interesting.

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:47.600
<v Speaker 1>And is it funny because Louis is the actually really

0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:48.480
<v Speaker 1>really funny guy.

0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:49.000
<v Speaker 7>Yeah.

0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.400
<v Speaker 1>Is there a lot of laughs in this series?

0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:51.760
<v Speaker 5>Yeah?

0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:56.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's hilarious, right, he's so dead. Pat Yeah, you've.

0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.000
<v Speaker 3>Said you look like the boy next door if you

0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:00.600
<v Speaker 3>lived next door to a was Liam.

0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:04.640
<v Speaker 7>I probably said that in a week moment thirty years ago. Okay,

0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:10.160
<v Speaker 7>this is the problem with the internet. It doesn't breathe

0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:11.600
<v Speaker 7>once it's locked in.

0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.200
<v Speaker 3>Then you have something special about your face. I don't know.

0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:18.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, No, it's definitely at times like very serious, but

0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:20.480
<v Speaker 2>he's he's very good at sort of like reaching that

0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.920
<v Speaker 2>point of deep seriousness and then flipping it and you know,

0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.720
<v Speaker 2>kind of like bringing you in and making it light again.

0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.680
<v Speaker 2>So it is always like a real journey for these interviews.

0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, thank you for taking us on this journey, Ruby

0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:35.160
<v Speaker 1>a number of very interesting podcasts that people would sink

0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.800
<v Speaker 1>their teeth into this summer. Thank you so much for

0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:38.200
<v Speaker 1>your time.

0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:38.760
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:39.200
<v Speaker 1>Daniel