WEBVTT - Geraldine Brooks on Trump's America 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:07.960 The most extraordinary thing, I think was just about four 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:12.400 days after the election, when the extent of the Democrats 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:17.840 route was beginning to sink in on everybody. Prospect Park 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:22.639 in the middle of Brooklyn burst into flames. Breaking news 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:23.960 in Brooklyn, serious situation. 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:27.560 Firefighters working to try to knock down a brush fire 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:30.560 in Prospect Park. In a lot of ways, Prospect Park 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:33.480 is Brooklyn's green heart. In tonight, parts of that heart 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:38.720 are on fire. Pulitzer Prize winning novelist Geraldine Brooks has 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:42.240 long called America home, so when she began to witness 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:45.760 the effect of the climate crisis on her doorstep, she 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:46.479 was alarmed. 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:50.720 So it was essentially a bush fire in the middle 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:54.520 of one of the most densely urban places in the 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:59.920 United States. And what was even more strange and eerie 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:04.080 was this is happening in the middle of autumn, which 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.120 is usually a time of rain and damp leaves and 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:11.560 cool temperatures and chili nights, and yet New York is 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:12.800 in a drought. 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:17.520 For Geraldine, this moment, just before Trump's second term can 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:19.880 be seen as a sign of what's to come under 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:20.680 his presidency. 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:25.400 And the parks are just tinder dry. So this massive 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:27.840 bushfire in the middle of the city. It couldn't have 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:31.319 been more stark. 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:42.080 From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven AM today, 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:46.080 Geraldine Brooks on Trump's America and what it means for 0:01:46.120 --> 0:02:00.360 a burning planet. It's Wednesday, November twenty. Geraldine. As you 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:04.680 watched the Harris and Trump campaigns in the lead up 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:08.600 to the election, how did you reflect on the way 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:12.480 that the CIBAT was spoken about with despair? 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.959 Because Trump, of course, has always held to the climate 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:20.680 hoax that theres nothing to see here, even though the 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:27.240 evidence is all around us. It'll start getting cooler. I 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:28.520 wish you just watch. 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:29.760 I wish science. 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:29.800 Agreed, but. 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:33.400 Oh well, I don't think science knows. 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:37.760 Actually, you know, if you care about the economy, climate 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:43.720 crises are the biggest threat to prosperity and to people's 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:50.640 ability to live and manage. But even perhaps more depressing 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:56.360 to me was that Kamala Harris, who had a very 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:01.640 good story to tell on the climate accomplishments of the 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:05.720 Biden administration, barely mentioned it. 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:11.040 Many other fundamental freedoms are at stake, the freedom to 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:13.239 live safe from gun violence. 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.760 A short half sentence at the Democratic National Convention. 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:23.960 The freedom to breathe clean air and drink clean water 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:28.720 and live free from the pollution that fuels the climate crisis. 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.639 A couple of other mentions when she was questioned on 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:37.800 her reversal on fracking. 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.160 I am not going to bandfracking. I did not as 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:42.480 vice president. In fact, as vice president. 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:47.840 She was the deciding vote on the Inflation Reduction Act, 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:52.000 which was actually the Green New Deal. Essentially, it was 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:57.480 massive funding for all kinds of climate initiatives, for a 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:03.720 transition to clean technology, for research and development of green hydrogen, 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:10.080 of sequestration, massive massive jobs program, and clean energy. 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:12.440 I know that we can invest in a clean energy 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:18.000 economy and still not banfracking, and still work toward what 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.800 we need to do to create more jobs and create 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:23.840 US based jobs in a way that would be globally competitive. 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:28.440 She could have been talking up this significant piece of 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:32.960 legislation that she was absolutely critical to, and yet she 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:34.720 chose to run away from it. 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.520 Why do you think that choice was made to stay 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:43.000 silent on both the climate threat and the ways to 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:43.600 combat it. 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.440 I think she was in a tricky position because she 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:52.520 had said that she was opposed to fracking, and that 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:57.479 was a huge issue in Pennsylvania, which as we know, 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:01.760 was a crucial swing state, and she was trying to 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:05.160 woo those voters. And the more she talked about climate, 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:08.160 I think the more it was felt that she reminded 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.799 the voters of Pennsylvania that she had been opposed to fracking. 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:17.000 And even though now in hindsight, it was totally waste 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:21.320 of time because the voters were not wooed. And goodness 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:26.039 knows how many potential voters stayed at home who might 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:30.440 have come out if she had had a compelling climate message. 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:35.880 Because even though only one in five voters in polls 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:41.080 say that climate is very important, you know, twenty percent 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:46.320 of the electorate. Surely those people are worth speaking to. 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:51.680 Twenty percent. I mean that is that is a low percentage. 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.960 What do you think the story is behind that? 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.240 You know, there's so much inequality in the United States 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:01.600 right now, and people at a low end of the scale, 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:06.159 which is the majority of the population, really have been 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:12.040 thrashed by inflation. And this is a global problem. But 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:17.920 the Biden administration wasn't compelling about getting that message out 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:23.560 that actually the United States was suffering less than most places. 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:27.400 But if you're suffering, it you're suffering it, and people 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.600 were really struggling to make ends meet. And I think 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:34.279 when they asked what the most important issue was, it 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:39.360 was the bread and butter, grocery prices, gas prices that 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:42.240 were front of mind. But again, I think it was 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:49.480 because there wasn't a great enough effort to say, the 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:52.400 most important thing that has ever happened in the history 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.640 of the world is happening now, and that is that 0:06:55.680 --> 0:07:02.320 we are living with hotter temperatures than any civilization. You 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.920 know what astonishes me is, you know, Wall Street will 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:11.280 be underwater and they won't be anything that we recognize 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:15.640 as a prosperous economy if we don't come to grips with. 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:22.760 This coming up after the break, Geraldine's message for her 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:36.480 own generation. Geraldine, you mentioned the things that Kamala Harris 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:41.640 could have talked about. So Biden's climate legacy. Trump is 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:45.800 promising to reverse that legacy, among other things. He recently 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.840 announced that Chris Wright, who is a climate change skeptic 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:53.560 and a fracking executive, will be his pick to lead 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:56.960 the US Energy Department. What impact do you think that 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:57.360 will have? 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:03.560 Oh, look, his pick for the Environmental Protection Agency concerns 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:07.960 me even more because that is a gentleman from South 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:12.800 Dakota who is totally in the pocket of extractive industries 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:16.480 and will just be moving to slash all the remaining 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:23.640 regulations that protect air, water, wetlands, coastal areas. They already 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:25.800 had a really good go at it, and with the 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:30.280 Supreme Court, which is also in Trump's pocket big time, 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.760 there's nothing really to stop them. It used to be 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:37.760 that you could stop them through legislation. Wonderful groups like 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:42.640 the NRDC the National Resources Defense Council have a stellar 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:47.680 track record of using the court to block egregious attacks 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:50.840 on the environment. But with the Supreme Court that the 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:54.559 US has now that is not even a possible line 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:56.440 of protection. 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:02.960 And Trump's approach to climate and attempts to block environmental protection. 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:08.439 There's clearly money to be made through marning natural resources. 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:14.680 But beyond that, do you see a more ideological reason 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:16.760 for this position. 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.400 No, I think it's money. I think it's entirely money, 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:22.800 and it's short term money, because if you really look 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:27.200 at at the entire economic picture, it makes no sense 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:30.720 these short term gains. But you know it's the Trump 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:34.560 cronies and they will be enriched the next four years, 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.840 it's just going to be an absolute, you know, bonanza 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:44.000 for money launderers and people who scam and deal crookedly. 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:48.439 And we are at the very beginning of Trump's second era, 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:52.120 so there will likely be many decisions that will be 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.960 made over the next four years that will exacerbate the 0:09:55.000 --> 0:10:00.840 climate crisis. Have you thought about how, on a personal level, 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:03.680 how you will approach the next four years. 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:06.560 I try and say that we need to think of 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:10.600 it as a two year timescale because there are midterm elections, 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:17.000 and I think we have to mobilize strenuously for the 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:21.080 midterm elections to get back control of the Senate and 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:25.800 the House and put at least some breaks on presidential 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.840 power before it's too late. But we have to do 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.320 what we can. All of us have to do what 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.599 we can. You take your little piece of it. In 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:40.319 the United States, I served on the Local Conservation Commission 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:45.400 for six years beating back inappropriate developments in the wetlands 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:49.960 and the coastal fragile coastal areas of the town that 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:53.080 I lived in there. And in Australia, you know, I 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:58.240 will do the same with whatever it is that I 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:02.640 have any possibility of moving the needle on and I 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:04.440 think we all have to do that. We all have 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:09.559 to just pick up the handle that we can lift 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:13.360 this thing by and do the task that's right in 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:14.000 front of us. 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:21.440 And Geraldine, when the climate crisis is ignored or misrepresented 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:25.080 by politicians, what is the ultimate impact of that? 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:29.679 Oh, we're seeing the impact already, and the people who 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:33.679 have contributed the least are the ones who are suffering most. 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:36.640 But we're seeing it everywhere. I mean the floods in Spain, 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:42.760 unprecedented drought, and bushfires in New York in fall unprecedented, 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:49.880 the tremendous devastation of the flooding in the Carolinas, in 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:54.760 the mountains where you'd least expect to have climate impacts 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.760 of that nature. Then, of course we lived through the 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:04.200 Black Summer. It couldn't have been more starkly demonstrated to 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:09.320 us what will be for our country and our precious biodiversity, 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:13.680 our wonderful wildlife. And yet we've failed to act in 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:18.800 any meaningful way. And maybe it's just that some problems 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:23.280 are too big for the human imagination, but that's not 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:30.760 an excuse. So there's a temptation, particularly people of my generation. 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.080 We're not going to be here to see the worst 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:37.880 of it. But if you care about your kids, if 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.640 you care about nature, if you care about all the 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:45.199 other things that share this planet with us, this beautiful planet, 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.200 you know, if we found a bit of bacteria on 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.920 another planet, we'd be all excited about it. And yet 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:56.400 we've got this planet still bursting with life and diversity 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:00.080 and as far as we know, so far unique in 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.840 the universe. Why wouldn't we do everything in our power 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:04.720 as a protector. 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.320 Geraldine, thank you so much for your time. 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:17.640 Thank you. Ruby. 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.640 Also in the news today, more charges have been laid 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:38.120 against eighty three year old veteran broadcaster Alan Jones. On Monday, 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:41.080 New South Wales Police revealed Alan Jones had been charged 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.760 with a total of twenty four offenses against eight complainants. 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.680 Police say, following further legal advice, they can reveal Jones 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.880 has been charged with two additional counts of assault with 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:56.480 an active indecency relating to a ninth alleged victim. And 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:00.280 the Australian Privacy Commissioner has ruled that the hardware chain's 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:04.200 warehouse reached the privacy of potentially hundreds of thousands of 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:08.720 Australians for its use of facial recognition technology. In twenty 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:10.839 twenty two, it was revealed that Bunnings was one of 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:14.400 a number of retailers using facial recognition in stores to 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.720 check the face of every customer entering the store against 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:22.040 a database of band customers. The Commissioner has ordered Bunnings 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:26.440 to destroy all personal information collected. I'm Ruby Jones. This 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:28.080 is seven am. Thanks for listening.