WEBVTT - Conversations with Cornesy - Graham Gouldman 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.880 Hi, everybody, Welcome to conversations. My guest today is Graham Goodman. Now, 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:06.200 Graham was one of the original members of ten CC, 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.880 responsible for some of those great songs, but he also 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:13.800 wrote songs for other artis some tremendous songs for big names. 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:18.080 But he'll be here on Saturday, August I with ten 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.960 CC at the Adelaide Entertainment Center. Graham Goodman, Welcome to 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:23.080 the program. How are you. 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:25.960 Thank you very much. I'm very well, thank you. 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:29.160 Who would have thought? Now I know your age and 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:35.960 it's very did you ever think that you'd be still 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:40.920 doing rock shows or music shows as you need eighty. 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:45.360 No, definitely not, But then we never thought about that. 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:49.640 We just thought. I was never aware of any sort 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.919 of time limit at all. I think if I wasn't 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:56.480 in you touring with the band, that I'd be still 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:01.160 be involved with music, either writing or do producing something 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.840 like that, because it's something I've always loved and it's 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:06.600 the only thing I can do really well. 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:09.960 It's start when you were when you were young, Yeah, 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.920 truly young. Yeah, it's the story true that your mother 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:17.080 identified that you know, you were more inclined to the 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:20.280 music and the arts rather than traditional school work, and. 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:24.160 Yeah, both my parents did. I mean I was very 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:28.440 lucky that both my parents were artistic. They recognized I 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:31.560 had a gift at an early age and I didn't 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:34.240 do very well at school and that didn't bother them 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.600 at all. Actually, and now they always encouraged me when 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:41.080 I started, you know, being creative. There was really encouraging. 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:42.920 I mean it could have gone the other way. Had 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:47.560 I been better at school and shown some sort of acumen, 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.680 then maybe they would have encouraged me to you know, 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:54.560 get a proper job, but they didn't. They encouraged me 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:58.080 in my music and fortunately it all worked out. 0:01:58.520 --> 0:01:59.440 Where did you grow up. 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.960 I grew up in Manchester, North of England. Yes. 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:07.480 Were your mum and dad musical or artistic in any way? 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:12.080 My dad definitely. My dad actually used to help me 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:17.000 with lyrics. He came up with song titles the songs 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:19.800 that I wrote in the sixties for people like the Yardbirds, 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:24.240 the Hollis Herman's Hermits. He was very involved with writing 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:28.120 the lyrics for all of those songs. And my mum 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:32.880 was used to run the fan clubs for the various 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:37.840 bands that I was in pre TENDSEC so they were 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:41.000 and they were both involved in amateur dramatics. Although my 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.919 father could have been a professional writer had things have 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:46.480 been different, but he was bringing up you know, we're 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:50.640 sort of working class family and for him to take 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.720 the chance of being a full time writer would have 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:56.079 been too risky, I think for him. 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:58.760 But what did he do? That was his job? 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.080 Well he had he was in the in the in 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:05.200 the fashion business. But when people say what did what was? 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:07.640 What did he dad? Do? I say he was a writer. 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.720 He wrote, you know, he wrote plays, he wrote poetry, 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:15.480 he wrote articles for newspapers and most importantly for me, 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:17.040 helped me with my lyrics. 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:19.520 Well, I did hear the story, and I'd love you 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.560 to recount it. If the inspiration for the Holly song 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:23.679 no Milk Today. 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.960 That that was? That was buzz stop. Actually, well there's 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.440 two songs actually mentioned there, but no Milk Today was 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:35.280 his idea completely. He'd been to visit one of his friends. 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:37.880 His friend wasn't there, and he turned on the doorstep 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.320 and there was an empty milk bottle there. He came 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:42.960 back to me and said, I've got an idea for 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:44.920 a song, No Milk Today. I told him it was 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:49.160 a dreadful idea, not knowing what was he had in mind, 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.560 of course, but he explained that, you know, it was 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.280 what the milk bottle represented, the fact that love had 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.400 there was no love in the house, every everything had 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.000 gone from the house, and that he came with this 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:06.560 beautiful line, the bottle stands forlorn, a symbol of the dawn. Anyway, 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.920 we did. We've completed the song, fortunately, and it was 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:13.280 a very big hit for Hermit's Hermits. 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:17.800 The bottle stands forlorn, the symbol of the dawn. I 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:19.920 hope you played him. I hope he gave him royalties 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:20.359 for that? 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:21.800 I did you did? 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:26.440 Did he get credits? Did he get writing credits for it? 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:29.719 Do you know? Right from the start we never actually 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.479 he was never credited, but I always talked about him, 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:36.839 and I'm not quite sure why that happened. It could 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.680 have been Goldman Gouldman, but maybe his name was on 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:41.680 top of stamp, right on top of mine. 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:44.800 So you're an eleven year old kid, you're showing an 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.120 aptitude for music. What what is inspiring? 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:47.400 What? 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:49.800 What? What music are you listening to? 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:52.680 Okay, so right, I got my first guitar when I 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.720 was eleven. That was a big turning point, A massive 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.320 turning point actually. But the music I've been listening to 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:04.400 we talking about sort of late fifties. We're listening to 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:09.039 a little Richard Buddy Holly, Eddie Cochran, the Everly Brothers. 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:14.919 Then we're moving into like sort of early sixties motown, 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.120 all the sort of great British bands like the Animals, 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:22.120 the Kinks and then the Beatles, which was the biggest 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:28.320 inspiration for me and millions of other aspiring songwriter musicians. 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:31.320 That's intrigued to me because those are all like rock 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:35.880 and roll songs basically. Yeah, But TENCC was more a 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:37.560 softer rock. I would have. 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:44.839 Thought, don't, I won't, I will refuse to pigeonhole soft 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:49.960 rock rock, hard rock, alternative art rock. I've heard it all, 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:54.640 and to me, it's TENSC music because if you think 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:58.000 of that, we had three number one records in the UK. 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:04.520 One was Rubber Bullet with loll singing, the second one 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.719 was I'm Not in Love with Eric's singing, and the 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:10.640 third one was Dreadlock Holiday with Me singing. So I 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:16.040 can't think of more three more different kinds of records, 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.840 which shows a versatility of the band and the fact 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.760 that we had so many different influences and they you know, 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.120 they all showed themselves on those records. 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:28.080 There's so many questions and I've always from that answer 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:30.760 you gave me the can I go back to the 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:34.599 one that intrigues me most, Dreadlock Holiday. It's such a 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.120 different piece of music to the stuff. It's a real 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:41.239 reggae feel. Yeah, it must have been inspired by something. 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:45.520 Oh yeah, definitely was. I mean what we were Eric 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.320 and I were writing after we'd both been on holiday 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:52.279 to the West Indies. I'd been to Jamaica and Eric 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:56.960 had been to Barbados, and we were talking about various 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:58.960 things that happened to us, and I had the guitar 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.400 and I started playing the opening guitar chords, you know, 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:06.000 that little roof, And when we got to the so 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:10.360 we did. We were writing about our experiences, as I say, 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:12.160 But when we got to what was going to be 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:17.120 the chorus. I remember the conversation I'd had with someone 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:20.960 in Jamaica at the hotel that we were staying at, 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:23.640 and we were talking about sports, and I said, what 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.480 about cricket? Do you like it? He said no, So 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:29.800 I'm surprised, he said, I love it, so he kind 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.040 of gave me. He gave me the line did you 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:34.840 get through? And it just sort of the memory of 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:40.360 that conversation sort of came back into my head as 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:43.160 we were, you know, writing the song, and it was 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:44.440 it was perfect. 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:48.080 That song, to me, tells the story of somebody is 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.160 being threatened or being held up. 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:54.720 Well, well it's it's it's a that's part of it. 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:58.160 But what the song is really about, and the video 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:00.560 that we made for it shows it, is that it's 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:04.840 this sort of white guy trying to emulate West Indian cool, 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.440 you know, and it's just failing at it miserably. That's 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:10.920 really what the song's about. And it's you know, a 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:15.120 lot of our songs are not about anything specific, and 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:17.480 you know, I like it when people put their own 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:21.000 spin on what song's about. I mean that that's not 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.360 not as ambiguous, say, you know, as other songs that 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:26.840 we've written. But but that song has been very good 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:27.360 to us. 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:31.320 I don't like it. I love it. So we're going 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:35.080 to go to the break with breadlog Holiday. Graham Gorman 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.520 is my guest. Folks. Ten CC will be here at 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:41.280 the Adelaide Entertainment Center on Saturday August, the second back 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:44.560 after the break. Welcome back everybody. Graham Gordman, the original 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:48.320 member of ten CC, is speaking to us. Are you 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:49.319 in Manchester? Graham? 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:51.800 As as we say, I'm in London at the moment, 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:54.320 it's London, it's home. Yes. 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.040 So you're an eleven year old kid, you get your 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.079 first guitar. What brand was it? 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.400 I don't remember. It was a a cousin of mine 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:06.959 brought it back from from Spain. I think customer Fiver 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:11.480 if that. It had a really high action, but it 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:15.160 didn't matter. I absolutely fell in love with it just 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.520 holding it, and I actually wrote something the first day 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:20.440 I got it. When I say wrote, it was like 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:26.160 three chords with using one finger, but it was something 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:30.680 and it was a start. So the combination of getting 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:34.880 the guitar at that time, being encouraged by my parents, 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:39.760 and probably as importantly the music that I had listened 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:43.000 to from well, I started becoming aware of music when 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:47.320 I was about six or seven and loved it. So 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:51.559 all those things went into my DNA. You could say, 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:53.080 who taught you? 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:53.640 Who taught you? 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:55.120 I'm self taught. 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:56.600 You're self taught. 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:58.640 Yeah, I mean a lot of a lot of my 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.839 contemporaries are self taught. We didn't what we wanted to play. 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.400 You couldn't learn to say, you couldn't go to a 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:11.040 music school and learn to play the blues. Say, you know, 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.920 you learn yourself. And I always thought that. You know, 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:17.839 I'm big on chords. I know a lots of chords, 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:21.280 and I sort of would struggle to find what I 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:24.360 was hearing in my head. But because I struggled and 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.880 then I found it, I never forgot it. So it 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:28.360 wasn't like I learned it from a book. 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:31.240 So that intrigues me. Eleven year old kid learning to 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:34.760 play chords was self teaching to play chords. 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:37.679 But lots of it's not unusual, you know, a lot 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:41.760 of my contemporaries do. They did the same thing. You know, 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:45.040 I can't speak for anybody else, but when I speak 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:50.120 to people of my sort of generation and musicians, it's 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:54.560 pretty much the same story. It's pretty much the same influences. 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:58.440 They got a guitar that they paid for on high purchase. 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.920 It used to be called or they never ever you know, 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:06.880 going to the guitar shop and their parents putting down 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.680 the deposit and had to pay twelve pounds of I 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:12.640 don't know, three pounds a week or ever, it was 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:16.199 still that the guitar was paid off. And having this, 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:19.640 I mean, like the first sort of proper guitar I had, 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.480 I think I was about fourteen or fifteen, was a 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.400 Fender Stratocaster, which was like the king and still is 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:30.319 the king of guitars. And I remember going with my 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:33.600 parents to get the buy the guitar. Then when I 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:37.040 got it home, I'd keep it in my bedroom with 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:39.200 the case open. So the last thing I saw at 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:43.320 night was this beautiful pink strat and it was the 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.360 third thing I saw in the morning. And I still 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.600 feel exactly the same way about that, about that that 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:50.560 particular guitar. 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.480 Now in nineteen sixty three, stratig find Strata Caster is 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:55.840 worth a lot of money. 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.200 Yeah, not a lot of money. Yeah yeah. I still 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:01.560 I don't have the original one, but I've got I've 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.160 got three very I've got two nineteen sixty twos and 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:09.280 a and a reissue shadows Hank Marvin Resue one as well, 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:11.000 so I've got three very nice ones. 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:13.880 You were influenced by Cliffordge. You know the story of 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:17.120 your Guide to the cliff Ridgard and the Shadows concert. 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:18.199 Can you really like that? 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:23.600 Yeah? Yeah, I love Cliff and the Shads. And I 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:28.400 went to the concert with my dad actually knew somebody. 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:29.960 I think it was at the Free Trade Hall in 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.160 Manchester and it was sold out, but my dad knew 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:35.000 someone that worked there and got the tickets and it 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.840 was just amazing. And I mean things have come in 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:41.959 a way come full circle in that when we play 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:51.040 in Perth, Yeah, coming up in our Australian tour. Hank 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:53.400 Marvin has been to a couple of our gigs and 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:56.920 we'll be inviting him again and he actually I put 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:01.240 out a new solo album last year. The album is 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.400 called I Have Notes, and Hank plays on one of 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:05.359 the tracks. 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.680 He was a guest on Conversations not that long ago, Okay, 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:13.040 he was Adelaide with these well these more jazz influenced 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:13.920 that's right. 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:18.480 He's doing that sort of yeah, like gypsy king type 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:20.760 type music. Yeah, yeah, wonderful. 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:24.080 I was also intrigued that your dad wrote a poem 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.079 about that time you saw. 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.000 Yeah. It was called We found it. After he passed 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:33.040 away in ninety one, we went through all my mom 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:35.080 and I went through all his papers and we found 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:38.520 this poem that was unfinished, but it was called Cliff 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:42.880 and the Boy. It was so so lovely, and you know, 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:47.640 it tells how it was, how much of an influence 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.200 it had on me, how it changed me. And it's 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:51.719 true it was lovely to have that. 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.080 How did make you feel reading that? Like I said, 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:57.480 it's a visit from the past from you. 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:02.440 It is, yeah, very very special, I must say, very special. 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:03.480 Did you think of putting it? 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:05.319 I'm going to. I'm going to read it when we 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.600 when we finished, I'm going to get it out. We 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:11.280 Actually I went through all his papers with my mum 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:15.880 and a friend of his who's a who was a novelist, 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.520 friend of his, and put together a book of his work. 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.840 So when people say to me, you know, what was 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:24.600 your dad like and what did he do? I could 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:28.520 go just read this various articles, stories that he wrote, 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:32.320 various experiences he's had. So it was something tangible that 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:36.520 we created of the represented you know, part of what 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:37.720 his he was like. 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:43.240 Did you consider putting that poem to music or putting 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:44.160 music to that poet? 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:48.120 No, I haven't. I never thought of it. Never thought 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:53.200 of it. Actually I'm thinking about it now. Never consider 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:54.600 that who knows. 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:55.760 Did your mum work. 0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:00.000 My mum, well, she she was a housewife. She looked 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:04.560 after me and my dad. During the war, she worked 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:10.800 making Lancaster bombers, like all her contemporaries, everybody you know, 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:12.840 indeed the war effort. 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:17.520 My stepman was from Sussex, all right, young lady during 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.160 the war and she talks about those days. Yeah, probably 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.720 don't get enough appreciation for what they did now. 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:30.920 I remember taking her to the RF Museum, Royal Air 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.640 Force Museum, which is not far from where we lived, 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:38.560 and they had a Lancaster bomber then, and she looked 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:43.160 at it and burst into tears, kidding. A lot of 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:47.200 memories there, just of I brought back so many, you know, 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:52.920 she used to tell funny stories about her time. Then. 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.840 It obviously brought back great memories, even though it was 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:57.520 in wartime. 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:00.560 Did she tell you what part she has modern? What 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:01.600 party you built? 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:04.320 She was doing sort of secretarial work. 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:07.360 Oh my gosh, Andy, are you an any child? 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:09.160 I am? Yes. 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:11.680 Did that influence you negatively or positively? 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:15.960 Do you think positively in that? I think if I 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:19.840 was an amateur shrink, I would say that the fact 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:25.080 that I was always was helped forming bands and working, 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.560 you know, bringing people together. I think that maybe I 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:32.000 was trying to sort of get brothers in a way, 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.520 or that I've never had any brothers, but I feel 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.520 like the boys that I've worked with, particularly some of 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:42.480 the boys that i've worked with for that one of 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.520 the guys, Rick Fenn, who actually lives near a baron 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:49.480 Bay here, and I have worked together for like fifty years, 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:55.440 over fifty years together, and so I think that I 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.200 that was my wanting to be have brothers. 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.160 Your drummer, Paul Burgess has been with you for that long. 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:04.040 Yeah, he's been with a bit longer because Paul and 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:08.840 I met in when in nineteen seventy three when the 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:12.359 original ten c C went on the road, Paul joined 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:15.480 us and has been with us ever since. 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.400 Graham Goldman, original member of ten CC, is my guest. Folks. 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.399 We'll take a break Graham and the band. Graham and 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.680 the Band will be here on August at the lad 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:30.320 Entertainment since a Saturday night. Can't miss it. Back after 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.399 the break, Welcome back to conversations, everybody. If you just 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.320 tuned in, I'm chatting with Graham Goldman. Graham, the original 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:40.480 member of ten CC, a young fellow growing up passionate 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.560 about his music, encouraged by his mum and dad to play, 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:47.080 gets his first guitar when he's eleven, teaches himself to play. 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:49.040 I don't know how they do that, but they do it. 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:52.600 And can you remember your first band? Tell us about 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:53.399 your first band. 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.520 The very first band I had when I was at 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:02.320 primary school and I'm not sure how old I was, 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:09.840 but it was me and I had a drum, not drums, 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:15.600 a drum. My friend Joel had a guitar that he 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:20.280 couldn't play, and the other boy, his name was Guy. 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:25.520 We built like a bass made out of a like 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.479 a like a broomstick, a piece of string and on 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.080 a attached to a box. And it was sort of 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.879 during the skiffle era. I think that was a very 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.040 important I should have mentioned that before, but that period 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:41.560 Lonnie Donegan in particular, and the skiffle era was really 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:44.879 important a lot of I think it encouraged a lot 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.359 of people to pick up a guitar, and really, God 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:50.439 knows what the noise was like that we made, but 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:55.520 it was something and we enjoyed it, which was the 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.080 main thing. So that was the first band. But then 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:01.960 things got a bit more sophisticated, and I was in 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:05.760 a band called the High Spots and the Cravats, and 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:09.080 then the sort of band that first started to do 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:13.160 something was called the Whirlwinds, and we were very much 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:15.600 based on sort of like Cliff and the Shadows. We 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.520 wore suits and had friendly guitars like a lot of 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:21.240 other bands, and that was a lot of fun until 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:23.680 I got fed up with the sort of music we were playing. 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:26.800 We were doing a lot of cabaret shows. I didn't 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:30.840 like the songs that we were doing, and myself and 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:35.840 Bernard and Steve the guitar player formed a band with 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:39.240 Kevin Godley, who I'd met at a club in North 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.879 Manchester that we all used to rehearse at, and we 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:45.479 formed a band called the Mockingbirds. So that was the period. 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:52.160 I'm sort of like seventeen eighteen now nineteen maybe, and 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:56.679 we're playing we're semi professional. Nothing ever happened, but of 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:58.840 course one of the great things about it was it 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:04.000 forged relationship between myself and Kevin Godley, and Kevin was 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:08.040 very friendly with LORL Kream, So immediately we've got like 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:11.040 three quarters of what was to become tenseec oh. 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.840 My goodness are you. Did you have a day job 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:15.360 as well? Did you have to have a Yeah? 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.880 I worked in an outfit to shop, but I eventually 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:21.520 got the sack because I was playing with the band, 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:24.760 having to leave early to go to gigs or arriving 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.800 late the next morning because I got back late from 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:32.640 a gig, and the guy that owned the shop did 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:36.560 me the biggest favor. I have to say. I wasn't 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.880 cut out for a to be working an outfit a shop, 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.280 but I did learn certain things about how to fold 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:44.000 the shirt. 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:46.800 Which very important. 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:48.720 At least I got something out of it. 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:53.080 So are you writing songs at that age of seventeen? 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:58.840 Yeah, I started dabbling really and really encouraged by the Beatles. 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:03.280 That was the main, my main inspiration and still the 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:07.240 sort of benchmark for me of what I'm I sort 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:10.520 of try and achieve. And then I wrote I was 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.000 actually still in the shop when I started writing for 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:16.200 Your Love, which became the first song that was recorded 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:20.119 by another artist, the Yardbirds that became a hit in 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:21.240 nineteen sixty five. 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:25.240 I'm intrigued by this story. The record company rejected. 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:30.040 Yeah, the record company rejected the Mockingbirds version of it, 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:35.840 and accepted did. We recorded two songs, One was Fear 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:43.040 Love and one was another song, which was horrible. But yeah, 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.480 so because of that, you know, sort of a negative 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:50.959 turned into a very amazing positive that the Yardbirds at 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.200 the time were looking for to be, you know, something 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:56.800 more commercial. They wanted to hit because up to that 0:21:56.880 --> 0:21:59.800 time they were like a rhythm and blues ban fantastic band. 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:03.040 I mean I'd seen them with the original band with 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:05.920 Eric Lapton, and I saw them with Jack Beck as well. 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:10.000 It was amazing, big influence on me. So to be 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:12.080 a fan of theirs and then have them record one 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:14.000 of your songs was great. 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:16.760 See I'm intrigued by the story where you opened for 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:21.520 the Yardbirds and then and then you know this in 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:26.200 the following sit they're singing your song. Yeah it was 0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:28.640 a positive or negative? 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:31.960 Oh No, I thought it was a positive, definitely. What 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:34.440 it was was they were on a program called Top 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:39.600 of the Pops, which was like the major weekly pop show. 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:41.320 I mean, if you got on Top of the Pops 0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:46.520