Speaker 1: Welcome to First things First, I'm Maddie Mills. My pronouns
Speaker 1: are he and him.
Speaker 2: I'm Brook Blurt and my pronouns are she and her.
Speaker 1: And before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge the
Speaker 1: custodians of the land on which we record, and for
Speaker 1: me today that's the gaddigal people of the orination.
Speaker 2: And for me it's a reundery people of the cooler nation.
Speaker 2: Let's get into it.
Speaker 3: Let's get into it.
Speaker 2: Ooh, what an exciting episode we have.
Speaker 1: Oh, super exciting because off the back of hosting the
Speaker 1: National NATOK Awards on Ghana Country in Adelaide, we have
Speaker 1: Steph Tisdell, who is an author, actress and the best
Speaker 1: stand up comedian in this country. I'm saying it, Ah,
Speaker 1: you stop it right now. You know what, I'm not
Speaker 1: the only person who said that. I had lunch with
Speaker 1: the comedian the other day and they said to my face,
Speaker 1: they said, I was so excited about having you on
Speaker 1: the on the podcast Steph, And they said to me,
Speaker 1: I absolutely love her. She is the best stand up
Speaker 1: comedian in this country and she doesn't do stand up anymore.
Speaker 4: You gonna tell me who said that?
Speaker 3: Oh, I will if you got to dollars.
Speaker 2: Bargaining?
Speaker 1: What that?
Speaker 2: So you're not doing a stand up anymore.
Speaker 4: I can't do it. It's too it's too hard, I think
Speaker 4: to be a black woman in comedy, it's brutal. I
Speaker 4: think being a black profile person in general, you followers
Speaker 4: must cop it too. But I think when you're you know,
Speaker 4: when you're trying to find a funny edge for hard stuff,
Speaker 4: then you're not only open to flat from white fellows,
Speaker 4: but mob too, because it's very hard to make sure
Speaker 4: you're getting getting across the important stuff without saying the
Speaker 4: wrong things or accidentally, you know, just it's so easy
Speaker 4: to try and make a point for people to listen
Speaker 4: to it, and then actually just being disrespectful, making it
Speaker 4: seem like you're laughing at things that are really tough
Speaker 4: for our mop And I just couldn't. I couldn't do
Speaker 4: that anymore. So scared, and there are so many reasons
Speaker 4: why I left. But I'm happy without it, if I'm honest.
Speaker 3: Oh well, that's good to know.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, you know, you've obviously gone on to achieve,
Speaker 1: you know, massive things in your career as well.
Speaker 3: After stand up?
Speaker 1: What is the difference between being on a set and
Speaker 1: a controlled environment to being out there and being so
Speaker 1: vulnerable in front of a crowd. Is it the fact
Speaker 1: that you don't know what you're going to get.
Speaker 4: I think it's some the feeling of collaboration and community.
Speaker 4: I think that's the big I think like support right,
Speaker 4: Like it's it's so weird. I remember I was having
Speaker 4: a chat with somebody about stand up and I tell
Speaker 4: everybody that I ever meet that they should do it
Speaker 4: because I'm a very anxious person, a very soft person,
Speaker 4: and quite insecure, you know, And I kind of always
Speaker 4: just think stand up is the most intimate thing that
Speaker 4: you will ever do. In the least intimate setting, is
Speaker 4: the most vulnerable thing.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I can only imagine you're literally like the
Speaker 5: person running into the burning house us.
Speaker 4: But on stage that I won't tell people in your
Speaker 4: daily level, it feels too close. But when you've got
Speaker 4: that sort of that cover of well I'm trying to
Speaker 4: make people laugh, like it feels very outside of yourself.
Speaker 4: But I think it's like it's so lonely because you
Speaker 4: get off stage and you've just put every answer of
Speaker 4: energy that you have in your body into putting an
Speaker 4: energy into the crowd. That's the big thing as well,
Speaker 4: I think is that above anything else, I just want
Speaker 4: to make people feel loved. So you're like burning out
Speaker 4: everything that you got and then afterwards you're really tired
Speaker 4: and people want to yarn to you and they want
Speaker 4: you to be funny, but by then you're not funny,
Speaker 4: Like you've done the funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're gassed out, ye, empty the tank, Like, yeah.
Speaker 4: That's when you're a little nervous self doubt person comes out.
Speaker 4: And then you go to home alone, to little the
Speaker 4: lonely little hotel room and early flights and late nights and.
Speaker 5: It's not as glamorous as you're sort of saying, like,
Speaker 5: it's not anywhere glamorous.
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't you.
Speaker 1: Think that's the Like that's the industry in general, right,
Speaker 1: It's like mirrors sell the dream, Like so much of
Speaker 1: our job is to create, you know, and it's an idea,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a fantasy for people outside of the
Speaker 1: industry to buy into.
Speaker 3: It's like that you've got to get them to drink
Speaker 3: the kool aid.
Speaker 1: Yes, drink the cool But I know that you know,
Speaker 1: you've been on our screens and we've seen you in
Speaker 1: you know a number of different shows, but can you
Speaker 1: give our viewers, our listeners at home a little insight
Speaker 1: to who you are?
Speaker 3: Well, who's your mob? Where you're from?
Speaker 4: Yes, so I'm a very proud you didn't woman. So
Speaker 4: my people are from fine North Queensland on the Athoden Tableland,
Speaker 4: Younger Bar area in particular, Sorr. That's my birds going
Speaker 4: off from the background when I stept to tell and
Speaker 4: I am this year, that's disgusting.
Speaker 2: I'm Nellie, I'm Nellie. There be there.
Speaker 1: I know. I'm happy to get old like wrinkles. That's
Speaker 1: why I'm going to get botox, but I'm happy to get.
Speaker 4: Black.
Speaker 5: Don't crack but he's like, yeah, literally, the boatos will
Speaker 5: fill the cracks.
Speaker 2: You're so fun.
Speaker 1: Someone said on RuPaul's Drag Race. They reckon black, don't crack,
Speaker 1: but do droop.
Speaker 6: That is I mostly grew up in Brisbane, but yeah,
Speaker 6: I was born in man Eiser on like Calcadoon country.
Speaker 4: Now I just kick around in Brisbane. That's me.
Speaker 2: Man Eiser is Calcadoon country, is it.
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, I've been out to man Eyes. I went,
Speaker 5: oh god, I went to a muster that was interesting.
Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, living out on the farm.
Speaker 5: I was like, yeah, okay, I'm going to my yeah, by.
Speaker 3: The master cattle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, cattle cows.
Speaker 5: That's what I'm thinking of, cows, my family, Steph.
Speaker 1: One thing that I found really interesting when doing a
Speaker 1: bit of research is the fact that you wanted to
Speaker 1: be a lawyer, which seems so far from where you
Speaker 1: are right now in terms of you know that being
Speaker 1: a lawyer isn't you know, that creative.
Speaker 3: It's more, you know, strategical.
Speaker 2: I suppose what policy and reading, what inspired.
Speaker 3: The change and actually what inspired you to want to
Speaker 3: be a lawyer?
Speaker 4: Do you know what? I think it's it's that age
Speaker 4: old thing. Everything's gonna say is going to make me
Speaker 4: sound like wanka Now.
Speaker 2: No, it's a safe place. This is a safe place.
Speaker 2: We you sound like wankas every day.
Speaker 4: I was a bit of an overachiever, you know, like
Speaker 4: I found school really easy, Like I just liked sort
Speaker 4: of academia, I guess, and I think it's one of
Speaker 4: those things when people tell you that you're clever or whatever,
Speaker 4: you go better do something clever. Then you know, oh yeah,
Speaker 4: I knew. I knew that I was just a little weirder,
Speaker 4: a little creative, weirder, but you kind of go, oh, well,
Speaker 4: I could do whatever. And I was so passionate, like
Speaker 4: I grew up. I grew up with so much privilege
Speaker 4: in Brisbane, and I just always thought, man, I've been
Speaker 4: given this privilege. I better do so much for mob
Speaker 4: And I thought, you know, I've had so many opportunities
Speaker 4: that so many of our people don't get. And so
Speaker 4: if I don't, you know, use it to get a
Speaker 4: degree where people will listen to me and I can
Speaker 4: write policy and even enter politics. I was like, I
Speaker 4: want to do stuff because you know, when you grow
Speaker 4: up in a really whiteweb around white follows you speak,
Speaker 4: you grow up you know, knowing how to work walk
Speaker 4: in that world. Yeah, and I thought, well, that's going
Speaker 4: to be my secret superpower, you know, And so I
Speaker 4: wanted to That's why I did what, you know, So
Speaker 4: I studied a jewel of law of journalism and then
Speaker 4: I dropped out two and a half years in to
Speaker 4: a five year degree. Like the idiot that I am.
Speaker 5: Ah, could you ever go back? Would you ever consider
Speaker 5: going back or finishing I can.
Speaker 4: Get every degree that's ever been done in.
Speaker 1: The entire.
Speaker 2: I know, it's so fun. I think.
Speaker 5: I think I already got a degree in so many
Speaker 5: things already in my mind, I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, I can do that.
Speaker 4: TikTok's diagnosing everyone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: I just I just I realized it wasn't for me,
Speaker 4: or it wasn't you know, like I was always really
Speaker 4: sort of led by justice and wanting to do good things,
Speaker 4: and I was like, oh, that's right. Law isn't about justice.
Speaker 4: Law is about precedent and law and money and ownership,
Speaker 4: and it just really kind of and I wasn't. I
Speaker 4: didn't do very well at it because you actually had
Speaker 4: to try, because it was all self led learning and yeah,
Speaker 4: be like whatever, I'll just do some work in class,
Speaker 4: and you know, could get by. And all of a sudden,
Speaker 4: it was like, I don't fit here. I went to
Speaker 4: UQ and it's a bit pretentious in a lot of ways,
Speaker 4: you know, and I just went to a public school,
Speaker 4: and I was just like, I don't fit here. I
Speaker 4: honestly had a big breakdown and then went traveling and
Speaker 4: got dared to do stand up as a joke, and
Speaker 4: I just stood up on a chair and a random
Speaker 4: room did some stand up and it went well. And
Speaker 4: that was literally how everything happened. And then it's just
Speaker 4: been one of those things where everything is aligned after
Speaker 4: that moment and it's like, yeah, that wasn't my path.
Speaker 5: That like ripple effect of like that one moment and
Speaker 5: then yeah, taking an opportunity and then keep there's that
Speaker 5: sort of like yeah, the role on a factor from
Speaker 5: that experience.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was just that thing of like I was
Speaker 4: sort of confronted with I guess all of the ways
Speaker 4: that I needed to decolonize myself because I was in
Speaker 4: this space. Gone, Man, I've been drinking their kool aid
Speaker 4: for a while. Why is nobody Why is nobody up
Speaker 4: in arms about the stuff that we're learning, Like, you know,
Speaker 4: like why is everyone okay with this course that we're
Speaker 4: doing where we're learning how to find loopholes in legal writing?
Speaker 4: Why is everyone okay with policies that only serve to help,
Speaker 4: you know, defend or get big corporations off. Why are
Speaker 4: we learning about this? Why is this course that we
Speaker 4: did about the Constitution? Why are we learning about terrnalius
Speaker 4: in such a fucking lacking in empathy or emotionality, Like
Speaker 4: like it's just a legal term and it was awful.
Speaker 4: I was just like, why is nobody else upset and
Speaker 4: enraged by this? And it just kind of hit everything,
Speaker 4: and I thought, oh, that's right, because you know, growing up,
Speaker 4: you just go, well, I'm I'm just going to make
Speaker 4: sure that I float will survive, or you know, swim here,
Speaker 4: and then you go, oh, I've been swimming like these
Speaker 4: white follows this whole time.
Speaker 3: Well, that's what I wanted to ask.
Speaker 1: You spoke about privilege, you know, and I think that
Speaker 1: that's something that will be, you know, shocking to hear
Speaker 1: for some of our listeners that a black fellow is
Speaker 1: talking about the privilege they had, because a lot of
Speaker 1: the time we get painted with this disadvantage brush, or
Speaker 1: you know, we're talking about the challenges. You so openly
Speaker 1: speak about this privilege that you grew up with.
Speaker 3: What did that look like for you?
Speaker 1: And how have you used it to combat those our
Speaker 1: challenges as a community.
Speaker 4: Well, I think it's one of these things where there's
Speaker 4: it's always a double sided coin, right, because I recognize
Speaker 4: just by one, I'm light skin, Two I grew up
Speaker 4: in a white suburb, so I spoke like white follows.
Speaker 4: And three my parents had a successful business, right, and
Speaker 4: so I could operate in that world without people questioning
Speaker 4: me too much, or at least I didn't question them
Speaker 4: questioning it because you just want to fit right. But
Speaker 4: the other side of that is that it came with
Speaker 4: a lot of negative or the disadvantages. Like I grew
Speaker 4: up in Brisbane, away from country. The suburb that we
Speaker 4: were in didn't have a lot of black ballers in it.
Speaker 4: Me and my brothers were the only black kids at
Speaker 4: the school. It was so whitewashed. If I ever questioned things,
Speaker 4: I was really the odd one out. It required me
Speaker 4: to have a lot of bravery that I didn't know
Speaker 4: how to inhibit at a young age. And it also
Speaker 4: meant that, yeah that I think I had to do
Speaker 4: a lot of the sort of cultural journey exploration.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and it's.
Speaker 4: After you've kind of tried to carve out your identity
Speaker 4: as a person and so then it's kind of tainted
Speaker 4: with this, Oh my god, am I doing this correctly?
Speaker 4: And that's kind of been what's plagued me through my career.
Speaker 4: I think it's just that identity struggle of I'm who
Speaker 4: I am, and I know that I don't need to
Speaker 4: earn my blackness, but I don't like that it failure
Speaker 4: thinks that my blackness is somehow undermined by what I've
Speaker 4: what I've been through, because actually, my mum was so
Speaker 4: passionate about making sure that we had access to everything
Speaker 4: because of all of the access that that my ancestors
Speaker 4: didn't have.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I wonder if you use that insight
Speaker 1: that you had all that privilege that you talk about,
Speaker 1: as you know, weapons within your comedy to make fun
Speaker 1: of white fellas.
Speaker 4: And here's the whole thing, right, It's like, I think
Speaker 4: the what made comedy really hard as well is that
Speaker 4: I remember kind of having this conversation with myself about
Speaker 4: like who's my audience, and going, you know what black
Speaker 4: Father's going to put me? Always I'm black, I know
Speaker 4: what it's like to be black. And then I thought
Speaker 4: the people who I really want to hit between the
Speaker 4: eyes or white follows, but to hid them between the eyes,
Speaker 4: you got to get them to watch. And so it
Speaker 4: was like it was a really hard line to walk of,
Speaker 4: like I don't want to whitewash myself, but at the
Speaker 4: same time, I'm not preaching to the converted, because I
Speaker 4: know that I can go out into the community and
Speaker 4: do whatever I want to do, like because I can,
Speaker 4: I know how to talk with black fallows. But as
Speaker 4: soon as you kind of make a decision almost in
Speaker 4: your head to try and attack the mainstream, it does
Speaker 4: feel like you've lost part of your strength as a
Speaker 4: black woman. But I don't know, it was all of
Speaker 4: that stuff, and it just you know, when it's acting
Speaker 4: and stuff like that, you can put your little sank
Speaker 4: on it, but when it's stand up, every word is
Speaker 4: part of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I feel like Maddie and I feel the same way
Speaker 5: in that sense, like we know, like we know whoere audience,
Speaker 5: our audience is. We're trying to like get you know,
Speaker 5: the white people to white the white people gathers the
Speaker 5: watchers to listen to the same like our podcast per
Speaker 5: se because as an example, it's like how do we
Speaker 5: not cater ourselves to that? But because like innately we're
Speaker 5: black and we're really proud and we're like, you know,
Speaker 5: we know who we are.
Speaker 2: But it's like, how do we get other people to
Speaker 2: listen like we get really yeah, right.
Speaker 4: Because you've got a normal Like I was laughing when
Speaker 4: I did the broadcast Bernado. I had to laugh because
Speaker 4: I was like, you know, it's real friendly to be
Speaker 4: black right now, like man no galic creative got their
Speaker 4: reusable bags and coals like which is deadly. I love
Speaker 4: from Nongala. But I had to laugh because I was like,
Speaker 4: but still, it's like people don't really know us or
Speaker 4: really listen, right, And so I said, look, you want
Speaker 4: to know how much they don't listen. He's a live
Speaker 4: broadcast on ABC, and I'm going to say and they
Speaker 4: got no rules and the crowd loved it. But people
Speaker 4: at home going swear, yeah, yeah, was.
Speaker 5: It Nookie that said boodoo on? Yes, Yes, that's so funny.
Speaker 3: Quoting and speaks. I'm like, oh gosh, that is amazing.
Speaker 2: That was that was life changing.
Speaker 5: Actually, the funny thing is, you know, I have a
Speaker 5: saying stuff and maybe this is also playing.
Speaker 2: I guess what you're talking is.
Speaker 5: Like I think if you don't laugh, you'll cry, and exactly,
Speaker 5: and I think, like, you know what, just laugh it
Speaker 5: off because you laugh, you won't cry.
Speaker 1: My over here is the full spectrum of emotion. She
Speaker 1: loves to laugh and cry the same time.
Speaker 2: Yes, but I think my dad's y at.
Speaker 5: The moment, and we we I think we quote Uncle
Speaker 5: Ernie didn't go he says something about like when you
Speaker 5: start laughing at yourself, that's when the healing can start.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's so true. And like my family, Like
Speaker 4: my family, they're all weirdos. We always laugh at difficult
Speaker 4: but like the harder.
Speaker 2: Ay, even normal normal does not exist. I hate this
Speaker 2: thing of like.
Speaker 5: Being normal, Like I'm it's better.
Speaker 4: Than a normal person.
Speaker 1: Who who Yeah, yeah, I mean, I just love when
Speaker 1: black follows are together. Like I had an experience where,
Speaker 1: you know, I was at an award show and I
Speaker 1: was feeling quite uncomfortable. I was feeling like a bit
Speaker 1: out of place. This was not long ago, this a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, and I was feeling like, oh,
Speaker 1: I really didn't want to be there. But as soon
Speaker 1: as I found my crew, I laughed. It was you know,
Speaker 1: the poorer. It was Barker and Barker's Barker's mob who
Speaker 1: were there. We laughed for a good hour straight. I
Speaker 1: left there just on a high, like I had taken
Speaker 1: drugs and black Joy for me, like filled my cup
Speaker 1: immediately and I could, like I swear, I could live
Speaker 1: off that feeling for the rest of my life.
Speaker 4: Like you mentioned their uncle Ernie Dingo, funniest moment I
Speaker 4: went to the Logis a couple of years ago, that
Speaker 4: infamous annoying interview that we had was up with You, Maddie,
Speaker 4: where I was like I found I didn't know I
Speaker 4: was being recorded. I was like, I just suck this
Speaker 4: dress it just a bit.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, that was me.
Speaker 4: When I was feeling really like out of place.
Speaker 3: And it was on the Gold Coast, wasn't it.
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, Gold Coast.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And then we're in the we're in the hotel like
Speaker 4: waiting to they got the limos to pick us up
Speaker 4: and that, and we're in the hotel and I'm kind
Speaker 4: of standing there alone and Uncle Ernie walks downstairs. Hey,
Speaker 4: my face into one corner and we were all just laughing.
Speaker 4: And then when we rock up there it was me,
Speaker 4: Tony Armstrong, Dead Maulman, and I think it was just
Speaker 4: us through somebody else anyway. And they had these little
Speaker 4: golden golf carts with people all dressed up in golf
Speaker 4: and we were like, we're getting in one of them,
Speaker 4: and everybody else was ignoring them, and I was like,
Speaker 4: we're getting in one of them. So we jump in
Speaker 4: and we're waving up the window going goodbybe plans and
Speaker 4: then we realised the golf cart drove us for forty
Speaker 4: meters and it was the most embarrassed. It was like
Speaker 4: as slow as everybody walking.
Speaker 3: That is myiconic.
Speaker 1: You know when you do see a black collow in
Speaker 1: that space or in the in this industry, there is
Speaker 1: that safe element of all look, let's band together. You know,
Speaker 1: we can protect each other in this vibe, in this moment.
Speaker 1: But for you in comedy, it must be even worse.
Speaker 1: I mean, as a First Nations woman in comedy, does it,
Speaker 1: you know, get any more isolating than that? Well?
Speaker 4: I mean like I did a lot of touring with
Speaker 4: the Aboriginal comedy All Stars, which was my favorite thing
Speaker 4: in the whole world. Like there's a comedian and Crepinery
Speaker 4: and Andy Saunders as well, and their real mentors to
Speaker 4: me just uncles who who just you know. I always
Speaker 4: had this fear that I wasn't I'd left it too
Speaker 4: late to fit or something because of how I grew
Speaker 4: up or something. And they were like, no, you don't know.
Speaker 4: And your blackness is like that's in your blood, that's
Speaker 4: in your skin, your bones, your spirit, like your old
Speaker 4: people give you that and so they kind of, you know,
Speaker 4: really celebrated the diversity that we had within the group,
Speaker 4: and that was something I was really passionate about as well.
Speaker 4: It's like, we have a lot of MOB who do
Speaker 4: grow up in metropolitan areas feeling disconnected and it doesn't
Speaker 4: undermine our blackness and who we are and the ways
Speaker 4: we represent MOB because it's not our fault that policies.
Speaker 4: You know that there was choices that had to be
Speaker 4: you know, I mean, you guys get it. But I
Speaker 4: got to deal with the All Stars a lot, and
Speaker 4: that was I felt the best, you know, But when
Speaker 4: it came to touring with like White Fellows or I
Speaker 4: had this really funny moment. Man, it was so cringe.
Speaker 4: I was doing Melbourne Comedy Festival road show and we
Speaker 4: were going to CALGOOLEI which has that famous big super
Speaker 4: pit or whatever. Yeah, I have a big hole, yeah,
Speaker 4: the big hole. And so everyone goes, oh, we've been
Speaker 4: to the biggest hole in Australia and also the super pit.
Speaker 4: I said, right as a joke, I said, yeah, We've
Speaker 4: been to the biggest hole with the biggest hole, and
Speaker 4: everyone thought that I was calling out to a manager
Speaker 4: a slut and I was like guys.
Speaker 2: My felabanta.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so look that everyone gave me and I was like, no,
Speaker 4: I'm not being disrespectful, I'm calling yeah.
Speaker 1: This is.
Speaker 2: If the moon fans not getting IM jagging.
Speaker 4: The other thing I think as well, though, right, is
Speaker 4: like it would always happen. I'd get really nervous in
Speaker 4: certain places because we know when. And I was trying
Speaker 4: to explain to somebody the other day, I was like,
Speaker 4: it's a sixth sense that people go, oh, I didn't
Speaker 4: notice anything. You go. We know the difference between a
Speaker 4: look that is suspicious and a look that is just
Speaker 4: seize you as normal. And there are places that you
Speaker 4: go to that are racist towns. And we know because
Speaker 4: all the black fellas aren't in the city center. And
Speaker 4: we know because it almost feels really segregated, right, And yes,
Speaker 4: there's a lot of rural towns in Australia like that.
Speaker 4: And when you go out and gigging them, as soon
Speaker 4: as you enter the town, you're taking note of everything
Speaker 4: and then you go, what's the audience look like if
Speaker 4: they're white and conservatives? You know that when you stand
Speaker 4: up and I always used to open with your name
Speaker 4: and name stare from a proud Aboriginal woman. The amount
Speaker 4: of times that I could see eyes rolling or here
Speaker 4: we go. How do you feel confident and deliver jokes?
Speaker 4: And I know that my jokes were good or that
Speaker 4: they would work, but the level of anxiety, fear and
Speaker 4: nervousness that I would have before a gig, I knew
Speaker 4: I couldn't share with the other like, you know, non
Speaker 4: Indigenous people in the lineup. It was really hard because
Speaker 4: you don't want to sound like that person who's always saying, oh,
Speaker 4: it's about race or something, and it's like a lot
Speaker 4: of the time it fucking is, but you feel scared
Speaker 4: to tell somebody what you're really thinking because you just
Speaker 4: hear that, oh, it's not about race, and you're like,
Speaker 4: you wouldn't know because you do.
Speaker 3: Not know what that feels like.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like there's it's being an Aboriginal person.
Speaker 1: I feel like there's the you know, I always say
Speaker 1: the thing I'm most proud of is being a black fellow.
Speaker 1: You know, there's no other feeling in the world that
Speaker 1: I can explain or that I felt that feels like
Speaker 1: that pride, you know, like there's just nothing to replace it.
Speaker 1: But then at the other end of that spectrum, there
Speaker 1: is that feeling of always feeling like your identity will
Speaker 1: be you know, questioned or you're not even questioned, but
Speaker 1: there will there will always be a level to a
Speaker 1: conversation or a perception based on your identity. If you
Speaker 1: are a black fire, it's like you know that it's
Speaker 1: a double end sword really but you know, but I
Speaker 1: also think that there's people like you who you know,
Speaker 1: making waves in the industry for us that are changing
Speaker 1: those perceptions and perspectives. I feel like, you know every time,
Speaker 1: but it is you know, I saw you in that
Speaker 1: Netflix film with Delta Gudroom. You know, like you know,
Speaker 1: it's like seeing people cut through to the mainstream and
Speaker 1: be on screen with people who have a very captive
Speaker 1: Caucasian mainstream audience, you know, and but able to show
Speaker 1: a different side to our community. I think that that's
Speaker 1: a lot of the you know, to speak about Natok
Speaker 1: but the fire, keep the fire burning, you know, that's
Speaker 1: what my fire is. It's about changing that perception or
Speaker 1: perspective on our community.
Speaker 4: I think it's that thing, right, and there's so many
Speaker 4: different ways that we we can do things, and you know,
Speaker 4: something really passionate about them passionate about the moment is
Speaker 4: this idea of like diversity within diversity, we're not all
Speaker 4: telling the same stories, and we also don't believe in
Speaker 4: advocating in the same way. My way have always been
Speaker 4: be in the game to change the game. And unfortunately,
Speaker 4: as black people and new followers will agree with this.
Speaker 4: But to be considered good, we have to be so
Speaker 4: fucking exceptional, do you know what I mean? Like, you know,
Speaker 4: I was saying somebody the other day, I said, when
Speaker 4: it comes to you know, like you I was talking
Speaker 4: to another black comedian and said, don't aim to be
Speaker 4: the best blackfellow. The funniest black father is that aim
Speaker 4: to be the best full stop. Because we can be
Speaker 4: loved by mob regardless. But for us to like change
Speaker 4: people's minds, we have to be better than what their
Speaker 4: best is. And that is so much pressure, but it
Speaker 4: is powerful. And yeah, you know, like theres a lot
Speaker 4: of people who go, no, fuck them, fuck the game
Speaker 4: right off. Yeah, play our own race, And I get
Speaker 4: that and I respect it, but it's just, you know,
Speaker 4: it's it's I guess it's not the way that I
Speaker 4: have sort of faced the world. Yeah, I get.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I also think that you know that our community.
Speaker 1: Is a small part of you know, an audience, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean in terms of percentage wise. You know,
Speaker 1: we have a whole world out there that you know,
Speaker 1: can learn and be educated from having an interaction with us,
Speaker 1: rather than, as you said earlier on in the episode,
Speaker 1: you know, preaching to the converted. Sometimes when I'm on
Speaker 1: an ITV and I'm showing my you know, black joy
Speaker 1: through entertainment, I think I hope white fellows are watching
Speaker 1: this because it does show a different side to our
Speaker 1: community because as much as it is for Black fellows
Speaker 1: as well, especially in IV, you know, for us to
Speaker 1: get that injection of community and inspiration and entertainment through
Speaker 1: that channel. I also feel like sometimes when you're preaching
Speaker 1: to the converter that like an empty churl sign by
Speaker 1: some sometimes, you know, like it's like just echoing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I feel like that.
Speaker 5: Dad and I had a conversation at the Melbourne Markets
Speaker 5: yesterday and we were just talking as strangers and this
Speaker 5: there was a couple before us that said to Dad like,
Speaker 5: oh is that Brook from the Bachelorette?
Speaker 2: Are you her? Dad? Et cetera.
Speaker 5: And then there's another couple that came and then this
Speaker 5: lady was just like, oh no, we loved you and
Speaker 5: you were our favorite, like we wanted to be rooting
Speaker 5: for you, and we just thought you were a very
Speaker 5: genuine person and blah blah blah, like nothing about like
Speaker 5: my identity, like nothing about who I was, but like
Speaker 5: being a good person. And I think that's also the thing,
Speaker 5: is like yes, you like, you know, showing up black,
Speaker 5: you're proud and all this stuff, but like just showing
Speaker 5: up as a good person as well.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, like.
Speaker 5: I just was like, okay, like if that changes someone's perception,
Speaker 5: and that's just something like so small, and it's just
Speaker 5: like and then they find out later they're like, oh
Speaker 5: she's black, Like then they're like oh cool, like moving
Speaker 5: you know, moving on, Like I don't know. This's just
Speaker 5: something about like you know, making time, changing people's perceptions,
Speaker 5: but just at the core, being a deadly good person,
Speaker 5: you know, Like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, that's the thing. That's what this is what
Speaker 4: black fellows know. We know because man, we're the best.
Speaker 2: We've got good morals, we've got good values.
Speaker 4: And respect and love love you know the amount that
Speaker 4: we say love. You'll meet somebody one one time ago
Speaker 4: all right, love you on by like realtious part.
Speaker 2: We're not afraid to say it. This is the thing
Speaker 2: white people afraid to say the L word. And I'm like, rah,
Speaker 2: it's just like love.
Speaker 5: Like I don't know what your interpretational language change of
Speaker 5: what love means in your mom, but like you know,
Speaker 5: love is just so universal and I'm like, why this
Speaker 5: mom so scared to say it?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I say love you every day the phone.
Speaker 1: Last night I was on a voice a video called
Speaker 1: to my brothers and at the end, we always say
Speaker 1: love you.
Speaker 3: And my partner is.
Speaker 1: Surprised by that because he's one once his dad you know,
Speaker 1: never used that term ever with his family. But also
Speaker 1: his siblings never say to each other either, So it's
Speaker 1: like crazy in black fellow family units, that word is
Speaker 1: you know, used so often, and it feels warm, it
Speaker 1: feels yeah.
Speaker 5: It feels connected like it it's like a string between
Speaker 5: you and that person.
Speaker 2: Like that's yeah, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 5: Like that's how I see it, Like it's yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: I've never been afraid to use the word.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'll die.
Speaker 5: It would be my last word that I say.
Speaker 4: I had to laugh, right. I used to have this
Speaker 4: job like before I started doing anything that I'm doing now,
Speaker 4: I used to work for this social media company, like
Speaker 4: doing social media stuff and like just posting shit. But
Speaker 4: we were in Woolen Gabber in Brisbane and the first
Speaker 4: I started working there, they said, oh, we'll go for lunch,
Speaker 4: you know, to welcome you. And it's been walking down
Speaker 4: the street there's black follows everywhere. I'm going, hey, younk, hey,
Speaker 4: you know it waits everyone like like everyone that's how Yeah.
Speaker 4: We pull up to the fucking to lunch and they go, wow,
Speaker 4: how do you know everyone here? And I was like,
Speaker 4: I don't know anyone, Like you don't feel family. They're
Speaker 4: black follows and they're like and what does that mean?
Speaker 4: And I was like, you just say hello and recognize
Speaker 4: each other. You just acknowledge each other. Yeah, it was
Speaker 4: really beautiful. You're like, yeah, that's because you follow has
Speaker 4: got no feelings. No, you don't know trying to another fucker.
Speaker 1: Finally, I love the black experience, like it's so unique
Speaker 1: to our community.
Speaker 3: It's like you walk through as you say, you walk.
Speaker 1: Through a town and say hey aren't hey aren't and
Speaker 1: then like white fellows be like are you related to everyone?
Speaker 5: And calling your uncles and Auntie's mom and dad. Did
Speaker 5: you guys do that as well? Like your aunties were
Speaker 5: just your other mom, like another mom.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, like my aunties call me son, yeah,
Speaker 1: son son. But before we go, Steph though, I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about the book. Yes, tell us about the book.
Speaker 1: What is you know what's in it? But what has
Speaker 1: it been like.
Speaker 3: You know, writing it?
Speaker 4: So the book is pretty much exactly about this stuff.
Speaker 4: It's I guess to kind of put myself in the
Speaker 4: brain of me as a teenager, I guess, and I
Speaker 4: just thought about all of those lessons, like I was
Speaker 4: saying before, when you become really aware of how much
Speaker 4: you need to decolonize your own self. But I gave
Speaker 4: that to my character in her final year of school,
Speaker 4: where she's deciding what she wants to do in the world.
Speaker 4: She wants to change the world, and then is suddenly
Speaker 4: really confronted with the fact that her world or the
Speaker 4: world doesn't see her the same way that it sees
Speaker 4: her peers in a way that she's she's never really
Speaker 4: allowed herself or wanted to ever notice before. And the
Speaker 4: kind of the catalyst for it is that they kinship
Speaker 4: adopt her cousin, which is a huge thing that we
Speaker 4: never talk about. Kinship adoption is I don't think it
Speaker 4: doesn't touch a black life, like you know what I mean,
Speaker 4: Like there are so many black fellows who cousin brother,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, or cousins to that kind
Speaker 4: of thing, and it's I think it's a really beautiful
Speaker 4: part of our community and one that, yeah, that we
Speaker 4: don't talk about a lot. And so I kind of
Speaker 4: wanted to have this, you know, this catalyst of this
Speaker 4: taking in a cousin who's lived that opposite life kind
Speaker 4: of super connected but without the same opportunities versus disconnected
Speaker 4: with all the opportunities, and recognizing the things they have
Speaker 4: in common and maybe don't and the identity issues and yeah,
Speaker 4: and so she sort of becomes the girl. It's a
Speaker 4: fictional young adult book, and she suddenly becomes very aware
Speaker 4: of kind of oh, why do you see him differently?
Speaker 4: Oh my god, actually you've all seen me differently as well,
Speaker 4: and kind of having to confront the way that the
Speaker 4: city systems, you know, kind of see her different. Just
Speaker 4: she has to confront all of those things. She becomes
Speaker 4: incredibly rebellious. She has her first love. You know, she
Speaker 4: goes off the rails bit and then kind of has
Speaker 4: to reconcile how do I want to move forward as
Speaker 4: a proud black woman? And she goes on like a
Speaker 4: cultural journey and yeah, it's just about being a teenager
Speaker 4: trying to fit in while you're also trying to figure
Speaker 4: out exactly who the fuck you are.
Speaker 5: So is this written for teenage? There's this like teenage fiction.
Speaker 4: It's a coming of age story. Yeah, young like it's ya,
Speaker 4: but I think it kind of can can cross a
Speaker 4: few different demographics. But I think the whole thing is
Speaker 4: I just really wanted to show I remember, like it's
Speaker 4: you know, it always happens like, oh, it's not that bad. Oh,
Speaker 4: so somebody accidentally said, can you do a welcome to
Speaker 4: country instead of an acknowledgment of country? And you're like, no,
Speaker 4: it is that bad because it's the death of a
Speaker 4: thousand cuts. Yeah, it's the undermining of your identity every
Speaker 4: single day, every single hour, with each new person that
Speaker 4: you meet, and it does change who you are and
Speaker 4: how you perceive yourself and how you feel perceived. And
Speaker 4: so I wanted to kind of show the nuance and
Speaker 4: the growing up trying to break the shackles of either
Speaker 4: well that you felt that you had to walk between
Speaker 4: and just go I'm both in neither or like I'm both, and.
Speaker 2: You're both accepting both and living.
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, which I think young people like I work
Speaker 5: with them and I see them go through that journey,
Speaker 5: and you being able to articulate a story that they
Speaker 5: would see themselves so much in is just so powerful.
Speaker 5: Like we always say saying that you can't be what
Speaker 5: you can't see, and so you've got to read and
Speaker 5: read and see other people's stories as well, because that
Speaker 5: can help you on your journey. And I think that's
Speaker 5: just amazing stuff. I'm so excited. What's the book called, Sorry,
Speaker 5: it's called The Skin.
Speaker 4: I'm in the Skin.
Speaker 3: I am for pre order at the end of the month,
Speaker 3: the right all preorder.
Speaker 4: It comes out on the first of August. It's available
Speaker 4: for pre order right now.
Speaker 5: Yay.
Speaker 2: That's exciting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's you know, it's I'm actually really proud
Speaker 4: of it. When I've got a cultural editor to go
Speaker 4: through it for me, because I never want to do
Speaker 4: the wrong thing. And she read it and she was like,
Speaker 4: see if I feel so seen? And I was like,
Speaker 4: oh you know so long. I hope that it can
Speaker 4: make a make a bit of a difference. And I
Speaker 4: hope more than anything that not even the kids read it.
Speaker 4: I hope that teachers read it because it's about that.
Speaker 5: Well, they put it in schools and they can, like
Speaker 5: you know, read it. The non indigenous kids can read
Speaker 5: it as well, like you know, and understand what these feelings,
Speaker 5: these feelings are like.
Speaker 4: And it touches on some really heavy shit too.
Speaker 5: So good good we need to be It's truth telling.
Speaker 5: So will you be doing a tour a book tour
Speaker 5: as well the release?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 5: Yes, okay, okay, So it's available for pre order.
Speaker 2: It's out in August the first of August. You're doing
Speaker 2: a tour as well?
Speaker 1: Yes, and a TV series and a feature film next imagine.
Speaker 4: I want to be in that.
Speaker 2: Thanks, okay, I put my hand up. I'll play the
Speaker 2: friend of the friend.
Speaker 4: No, no, you play you get some botox now you'd
Speaker 4: be ready.
Speaker 2: I done.
Speaker 4: Don't even know. Your age could be fourteen or forty,
Speaker 4: I wouldn't have Thank you, thank you, black Dunk Crack.
Speaker 3: But do drop soon.
Speaker 1: Oh Step, We've absolutely loved having you on. Thank you
Speaker 1: for taking the time to be on our podcast. We
Speaker 1: are a big fan, so this is you know, surreal
Speaker 1: for us.
Speaker 4: Thank you. You follows are the best and you look
Speaker 4: the most. You're disgusting to look at.
Speaker 3: We've got a face for radio, don't.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's why we got that botox.
Speaker 3: You know, Black talks that we.
Speaker 2: Gotta look at ourselves all the time. I love you, love.
Speaker 3: You to love you too. That what steps will make
Speaker 3: sure you gon and support her?
Speaker 1: You know, get that book, go and see whenever you
Speaker 1: get to get a chance, watch the show she's in.
Speaker 3: She's an absolute you know stella talent.
Speaker 5: And if you want us to cover anything on the
Speaker 5: pod on next episode, let us.
Speaker 2: Know, reach out via our socials.
Speaker 5: My handle is that brooked up learn and Maddie's is
Speaker 5: handled is that it's Maddie Mills and we'll see you
Speaker 5: next week.
Speaker 2: Bye.
Speaker 1: You can't handle the truth.