1
00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,480
Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

2
00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:14,240
Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, October nine. Peter Dutton says the Prime Minister

3
00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,000
Speaker 1: is speaking out of both sides of his mouth on

4
00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,759
Speaker 1: conflict in the Middle East. That's after Parliament failed to

5
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,760
Speaker 1: muster bipartisan support for emotion honoring victims of Hermas's twenty

6
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:32,320
Speaker 1: twenty three attack on Israel. A secret report says a

7
00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:36,479
Speaker 1: powerful union leader was ousted by members who fabricated sexual

8
00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:41,240
Speaker 1: assault allegations against him. That exclusive story is live right

9
00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:47,800
Speaker 1: now at the Australian dot Com dot a U. It's

10
00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:52,560
Speaker 1: the election issue everyone's talking about, and abortion is threatening

11
00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:57,760
Speaker 1: to define the White House run of Republican VP nominee jd. Vance.

12
00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,280
Speaker 1: In today's episode, our Washington DC correspondent gets up close

13
00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:12,600
Speaker 1: and personal with the combative, enigmatic senator with big ambitions.

14
00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,839
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two, the US Supreme Court overturned Roe

15
00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,720
Speaker 1: versus Wade. That was a nineteen seventy three decision by

16
00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:26,920
Speaker 1: the same court that had become part of America's legal fabric,

17
00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:31,120
Speaker 1: the idea that the Constitution of the United States contained

18
00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 1: a right to abortion. The twenty twenty two decision was

19
00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,240
Speaker 1: made by a five to four majority of the court's justices.

20
00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:44,800
Speaker 1: Those included three judges appointed by former President Donald Trump.

21
00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,720
Speaker 1: There was jubilation, did not enjoy that it was fine,

22
00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:55,880
Speaker 1: return determination of feeling determination battle is not over, and

23
00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:01,000
Speaker 1: devastation and feels like convey doesn't love me in Momai.

24
00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,880
Speaker 1: As a way, the twenty twenty two decision didn't ban abortion.

25
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,639
Speaker 1: It handed authority back to the states, meaning it's now

26
00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,639
Speaker 1: up to individual states to decide if and how women

27
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:18,200
Speaker 1: can terminate pregnancies. Some states, like Texas, Oklahoma, and South

28
00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:23,240
Speaker 1: Dakota made seeking or administering abortions a criminal offense, with

29
00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,760
Speaker 1: few exceptions for protection of the life of the mother.

30
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:32,280
Speaker 1: Others like New York, Oregon, and California moved swiftly to

31
00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,919
Speaker 1: protect and even expand abortion access.

32
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,360
Speaker 2: So you'll often see in polls of key issues that

33
00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,880
Speaker 2: abortion is oftentimes within the top ten issues of importance

34
00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,960
Speaker 2: to American voters. Now, I think that's very unlikely to

35
00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:49,400
Speaker 2: be the case in Australia.

36
00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:54,320
Speaker 1: Claire Joe Kelly is The Australian's correspondent in Washington, DC.

37
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,919
Speaker 2: We tend to think that Australia and America are similar

38
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,959
Speaker 2: most of the time. They are actually significant and important

39
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,560
Speaker 2: differences between us and I think this is one of

40
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,560
Speaker 2: the Kamala Harris has pledged to en trying the protections

41
00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,640
Speaker 2: of Roe versus Way in federal law, and the Trump

42
00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:18,320
Speaker 2: position is to essentially let abortion become a federal issue

43
00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,800
Speaker 2: and the states will determine their own positions on abortion.

44
00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,280
Speaker 1: Back in twenty twenty two, when the Supreme Court made

45
00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:30,079
Speaker 1: this decision to overturn Roe versus Wade, Donald Trump seemed

46
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:31,960
Speaker 1: to be pretty clear, and he was at the beginning

47
00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,640
Speaker 1: of his election campaign too, that this was the result

48
00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,600
Speaker 1: of the appointments that he made. He appointed conservative judges

49
00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:40,040
Speaker 1: knowing that this was their opinion.

50
00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,400
Speaker 3: Well, I did something that nobody know as possible. I

51
00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:44,760
Speaker 3: got rid of Roe v.

52
00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:45,160
Speaker 4: Wed.

53
00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,480
Speaker 3: And by doing that he seems to be.

54
00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,200
Speaker 1: Walked back from that a little bit now. Is that

55
00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:52,280
Speaker 1: you're a reading of it too.

56
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,840
Speaker 3: This is an issue that's torn our country apart for

57
00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:01,400
Speaker 3: fifty two years. Every legal scholar, every Demo create, every Republican,

58
00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,960
Speaker 3: liberal conservative, they all wanted this issue to be brought

59
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,160
Speaker 3: back to the states where the people could vote. And

60
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,640
Speaker 3: that's what happened. It's the vote of the people now

61
00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,440
Speaker 3: it's not tied up in the federal government.

62
00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,720
Speaker 2: I think Donald Trump wants to ensure that he's got

63
00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:20,080
Speaker 2: a broad appeal. What he is saying is that it

64
00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,159
Speaker 2: is a fair position to let this issue be determined

65
00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:24,000
Speaker 2: by the states.

66
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,640
Speaker 1: And I think one of the problems.

67
00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:31,880
Speaker 2: Is if you have a situation where important positions, essentially

68
00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:37,120
Speaker 2: policy decisions are effectively being implemented by way of court decisions,

69
00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,560
Speaker 2: because it's always open to the court to change its position.

70
00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,960
Speaker 2: I think he's embracing that position to try and ensure

71
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,279
Speaker 2: that the Republicans don't scare people on this issue. And

72
00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,640
Speaker 2: that was one of the points that jd Vance made

73
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,880
Speaker 2: in that vice presidential debate where he actually said that

74
00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,280
Speaker 2: the Republicans had mishandled this issue in the past.

75
00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,400
Speaker 5: As a Republican who he proudly wants to protect innocent

76
00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,440
Speaker 5: life in this country, who proudly wants to protect the vulnerable,

77
00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:07,800
Speaker 5: is that my party, We've got to do so much

78
00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,680
Speaker 5: better of a job at earning the American people's trust

79
00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,880
Speaker 5: back on this issue where they frankly just don't trust us.

80
00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:16,320
Speaker 5: And I think that's one of the things that Donald

81
00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,120
Speaker 5: Trump and I are endeavoring to do.

82
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,719
Speaker 2: That was a major concession that he made Claire, and

83
00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,040
Speaker 2: he said that the Republicans needed to win back people's

84
00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,560
Speaker 2: trust on this issue. So this is the formula that

85
00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,680
Speaker 2: they've arrived at to try and achieve that.

86
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,919
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's running mate JD. Vance was in August adamant.

87
00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:41,040
Speaker 1: Trump was not seeking a national ban, so he had

88
00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,760
Speaker 1: veto a federal abortion ban. I think he would.

89
00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:45,520
Speaker 5: He said that explicitly that he would.

90
00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,679
Speaker 1: Last week in a debate with the Democratic rival Tim Walls,

91
00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,760
Speaker 1: Vance towed the party line.

92
00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,520
Speaker 5: And the proper way to handle this, as messy as

93
00:05:55,560 --> 00:06:00,320
Speaker 5: democracy sometimes is, is to let voters make these Decisionsans

94
00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:01,120
Speaker 5: and JD.

95
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,600
Speaker 1: Vance says his own position on abortion supportive of type restrictions.

96
00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,240
Speaker 1: After fifteen weeks gestation has evolved following a vote in

97
00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,000
Speaker 1: his home state, and.

98
00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,560
Speaker 5: The people of Ohio voted overwhelmingly, by the way, against

99
00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,680
Speaker 5: my position. And I think that what I learned from that, Nora,

100
00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:20,520
Speaker 5: is that we've got to do a better job at

101
00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:21,839
Speaker 5: winning back people's trust.

102
00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:27,240
Speaker 1: But in recent days Vance went off script, apparently revealing

103
00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:32,839
Speaker 1: the Republicans would defund Planned Parenthood. That's a national provider

104
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:38,960
Speaker 1: of reproductive healthcare. Contraception counseling, and in some cases abortions.

105
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,320
Speaker 5: Look, I mean, our view is we don't think that

106
00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,240
Speaker 5: taxpayers should fund late term abortions. That has been a

107
00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,760
Speaker 5: consistent view of the Drop campaign the first time around.

108
00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,360
Speaker 5: It will remain a consistent view.

109
00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:55,159
Speaker 1: There's hyperbole on both sides of this debate. Donald Trump

110
00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,320
Speaker 1: has suggested the Democrats want to kill babies.

111
00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,960
Speaker 3: Her vice presidential says abortion in the ninth month is

112
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:08,080
Speaker 3: absolutely fine. He also says execution after birth, it's an execution,

113
00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,560
Speaker 3: no longer abortion because the baby is born is okay.

114
00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,520
Speaker 1: And Kamala Harris paints Trump as a misogynist.

115
00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,080
Speaker 6: So he who when he was president hands selected three

116
00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,760
Speaker 6: members of the United States Supreme Court with the intention

117
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,360
Speaker 6: that they would undo the protections of Roe v. Wade,

118
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,640
Speaker 6: and they did just as he intended. This is the

119
00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:33,360
Speaker 6: same guy who said that women should be punished for

120
00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,800
Speaker 6: having abortions. This is the same guy who uses the

121
00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,320
Speaker 6: kind of language he does to describe women.

122
00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,640
Speaker 1: It's about women, too, isn't it, Joe. It seems to

123
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,280
Speaker 1: me that the Democrats really think that this is going

124
00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,280
Speaker 1: to be the thing that gets women out to vote yes.

125
00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,080
Speaker 2: And they keep arguing that the real position of the

126
00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:56,080
Speaker 2: Republicans is for a national ban on abortion. So that's

127
00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,760
Speaker 2: the argument. They're saying that you can't trust the Republicans

128
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,440
Speaker 2: on this issue. You can't trust Donald Trump. And indeed

129
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:08,600
Speaker 2: jd Vance has somewhat softened his position himself on abortion

130
00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,320
Speaker 2: over the years, like he has on many issues.

131
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:18,040
Speaker 1: Claire coming up, how jd Vance has become the most

132
00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:35,920
Speaker 1: interesting player in this race. Joe Kelly went along to

133
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,800
Speaker 1: a jd Van speech on Tuesday at a rally to

134
00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,440
Speaker 1: honor Israeli hostages still held in Gaza.

135
00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,880
Speaker 4: I'm gonna get a little political here. It is disgraceful

136
00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 4: that we have an American president and vice president who

137
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,640
Speaker 4: haven't done a thing. Vice President Harris our messages, bring

138
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,480
Speaker 4: them home, use your authority to help bring them home.

139
00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,320
Speaker 1: We can do it. We just need real leadership. What's

140
00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,160
Speaker 1: your sense of him up close?

141
00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,760
Speaker 2: I think he's very articulate. He has a sense of

142
00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:12,160
Speaker 2: easy charisma. I think that he's persuasive. He presents well,

143
00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,880
Speaker 2: but while he's strong in presentation, he's untested in substance.

144
00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:21,040
Speaker 2: I think essentially what Donald Trump sees in jd Vance

145
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,480
Speaker 2: has given jd Vance's age. He's so young, at just

146
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,560
Speaker 2: forty years old. I think he sees someone who will

147
00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:32,719
Speaker 2: be loyal to him and who could potentially carry the

148
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,679
Speaker 2: trump Ism torch, if you like, into the future and

149
00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,600
Speaker 2: act as a pillar of resistance against the old Republican

150
00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:45,240
Speaker 2: establishment in the years to come. And the criticism of JD.

151
00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,160
Speaker 2: Vans that's been made by Joe Biden and the Democrats

152
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,679
Speaker 2: is that he is a clone of Donald Trump. And

153
00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,439
Speaker 2: I think you can see that pushback from the old

154
00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,720
Speaker 2: Republican establishment. You see it in the fact that Liz

155
00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:02,240
Speaker 2: Cheney is campaigning with Kamala Harris at the moment, Dick

156
00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,360
Speaker 2: Cheney does not support Donald Trump, and George W. Bush

157
00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,840
Speaker 2: is not saying how he will vote.

158
00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,760
Speaker 1: He's, of course, famously the never Trumper. He once compared

159
00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,319
Speaker 1: Trump to Hitler. Now he says that he was mistaken

160
00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,560
Speaker 1: then and that actually now this is the real JD.

161
00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,040
Speaker 1: Vance and he's come to realize that Donald Trump was

162
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,360
Speaker 1: unfairly misrepresented and he's actually much more of a genius

163
00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 1: than anyone expected.

164
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,080
Speaker 5: I was wrong about Donald Trump. I was wrong, first

165
00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,640
Speaker 5: of all because I believed some of the media stories

166
00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,280
Speaker 5: that turned out to be dinnisionist fabrications of his record,

167
00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,840
Speaker 5: but most importantly, Donald Trump delivered for the American people.

168
00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,199
Speaker 1: He's in a tough position, isn't he, Joe. He's got

169
00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,400
Speaker 1: to step his way through things that Trump is very

170
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,840
Speaker 1: passionate about, like, for example, the result of the twenty

171
00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:51,199
Speaker 1: twenty election, keeping him on side while also not appearing foolish.

172
00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,840
Speaker 2: Essentially, there are two JD. Van, says Claire. So there's

173
00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:00,520
Speaker 2: the JD. Vance, who is the exemplification of us exceptalism.

174
00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,200
Speaker 2: He embodies the story of the American dream, pulling yourself

175
00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,200
Speaker 2: up by your own bootstraps, growing up in poverty in

176
00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:12,400
Speaker 2: rural Ohio, his mother struggling with drugs, enlisting in the Marines,

177
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,160
Speaker 2: going on to attend Yale where he did law, becoming

178
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:20,679
Speaker 2: a venture capitalist, and then obviously penning that best selling

179
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:25,760
Speaker 2: memoir back in twenty sixteen. So there's that version of JD.

180
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:26,280
Speaker 5: Vans.

181
00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,440
Speaker 2: And then on the other side there's the criticism. There's

182
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,320
Speaker 2: the idea that JD. Vans is a political chameleon, that

183
00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,000
Speaker 2: he's an opportunist, that he does what he needs to

184
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:41,200
Speaker 2: do to get ahead, transforming from the never Trumper that

185
00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,560
Speaker 2: he was in twenty sixteen when he was releasing that

186
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:49,679
Speaker 2: best selling memoir and becoming a Trump loyalist. So apparently

187
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,840
Speaker 2: this all changed in about February twenty twenty one when

188
00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,560
Speaker 2: he had a meeting with Trump at Mari Lago in Florida.

189
00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,600
Speaker 2: So there are reports that at that point he apologized

190
00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,560
Speaker 2: to Try, claiming he had brought into a narrative that

191
00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:06,720
Speaker 2: had been spread by the mainstream media. So now he

192
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,040
Speaker 2: finds himself in this position where he has to be

193
00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:13,240
Speaker 2: sympathetic to the core tenets of Trumpism. So this relates

194
00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,920
Speaker 2: to things like the twenty twenty election being stolen. He

195
00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,840
Speaker 2: has endorsed the idea there was widespread fraud, that there

196
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,880
Speaker 2: were people voting illegally, And he's also a taken aim

197
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,640
Speaker 2: at Mike Pence, suggesting that he wouldn't have certified the

198
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,520
Speaker 2: vote back in January twenty twenty one.

199
00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,959
Speaker 1: Did he lose the twenty twenty election.

200
00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,800
Speaker 5: Tim, I'm focused on the future. Did Kamala Harris censor

201
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,720
Speaker 5: Americans from speaking their mind and the wake of the

202
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,680
Speaker 5: twenty twenty COVID situation?

203
00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,160
Speaker 1: That is a damning non answer.

204
00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,560
Speaker 5: It's a damning non answer for you to not talk

205
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:47,520
Speaker 5: about censorship.

206
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:52,680
Speaker 2: So he's had this unbelievable transformation into a maga populist.

207
00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:05,080
Speaker 1: Joe Kelly is the Australian's correspondent in Washington DC. You

208
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,400
Speaker 1: can read all his reporting, plus the rest of the

209
00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,560
Speaker 1: nation's Best Journalism twenty four seven, at the Australian dot

210
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:12,400
Speaker 1: com dot u