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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed Q and A where we

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Speaker 1: ask and answer questions about business, investing, economics, politics and more.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure n Alma Australians have an obsession with property buying, selling, investing,

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Speaker 1: even just watching and one of the main platforms we use,

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Speaker 1: of course is Domain. Last year, Domain was bought by

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Speaker 1: co Star Group and as that listed company considered a

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Speaker 1: global leader and commercial real estate information and analytics in

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Speaker 1: the US. It also operates property platforms homes dot com

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Speaker 1: and apartments dot com, as well as on the market

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Speaker 1: in the UK. With Domain now part of a very large,

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Speaker 1: data driven international organization, I want to find out what

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Speaker 1: it means for the business and how Australian news of

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Speaker 1: the platform will benefit. Jason Pellegrino is the president of Domain,

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Speaker 1: which is a great supporter of this podcast. Jason, welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Fear and Greed.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: So what does this change look like? How does Domain change?

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Speaker 1: How does it benefit or otherwise from being part of Coaster.

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Speaker 2: We've moved from being a really substantial player within the

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Speaker 2: Australian market place. We've got hundreds of engineers building products

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Speaker 2: for Australian users, solving Australian needs around real estate to

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Speaker 2: being a global player with thousands of engineers solving those needs. Ironically,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the needs are exactly the same. People

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Speaker 2: are looking for homes, people are looking for offices or

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Speaker 2: industrial precincts, and so we're able to do that at

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Speaker 2: much greater scale, and we're much more prepared for the

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Speaker 2: fast pace of change we're seeing around technology to meet

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Speaker 2: those new and emerging needs.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's stay with residential at the moment. Other

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Speaker 1: US and Australian markets. I mean, you're suggesting they're similar.

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Speaker 1: And every time you see TV show and they talk

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Speaker 1: about realtors and Phil Dumfies doing his thing, how similar

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Speaker 1: are they?

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Speaker 2: So everyone starts from a point of difference. And I've

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Speaker 2: worked in a lot of global organizations where I've worked

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Speaker 2: with country managers all across regions like Asia, where everyone

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Speaker 2: will start and tell you that they're different. The reality

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Speaker 2: is when you pierce the skin get under the hood,

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Speaker 2: a lot of things are a lot more common than

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Speaker 2: people think. So, Yes, in the US you have agents,

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Speaker 2: buyside agents sell side agents on both sides of the transaction. Yes,

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Speaker 2: in Australia you have vendor paid advertising, for example, that

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Speaker 2: doesn't exist anywhere else. But ultimately, when someone is looking

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Speaker 2: for a home, their needs, their wants, their experience, and

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Speaker 2: their journey, whether you're in the US or you're in

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Speaker 2: Australia are exactly the same. And so we are choosing

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Speaker 2: to focus on the commonalities and the ability to solve

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Speaker 2: those problems at global scale, at world class capability levels,

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Speaker 2: rather than sort of nitpick around the bits that are different,

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Speaker 2: because we can always adjust for the bits of a

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Speaker 2: different as long as the core platform and the core

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Speaker 2: solutions you're delivering for those needs are appropriate.

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Speaker 1: So part of my ignorance what are the core solutions? Then,

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Speaker 1: in terms of you've got a lot of engineers compared

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Speaker 1: to a few engineers. Is that all about a kind

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Speaker 1: of customer service? Is it? What are those things?

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Speaker 2: Ultimately it comes down to confidence. Walk you through every

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Speaker 2: step of the journey and every need that's required, whether

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Speaker 2: you're at the beginning of a journey, whether you're looking

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Speaker 2: for a home or an investment property, all these things change. However,

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Speaker 2: ultimately it's confidence. Property is such an important part of

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Speaker 2: people's life, particularly in Australia. It's such a critical financial asset.

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Speaker 2: It has bearings on your future well being, your current

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Speaker 2: well being. It's such an emotional asset. You are opening

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Speaker 2: a door to a family home and experiencing that, and

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Speaker 2: so it's really around confidence, and confidence manifests itself in

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Speaker 2: so many different ways. Do I have the confidence to transact,

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Speaker 2: to sell or to buy? Do I have the confidence

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Speaker 2: that I'm making the right decision? Do I have the

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Speaker 2: confidence that I can turn around to my family and

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Speaker 2: justify that decision? And so really all our products and

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Speaker 2: all our capabilities are focused around really handholding people through

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Speaker 2: the most complex transaction they're likely to have in their

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Speaker 2: life and providing them with the confidence that they're making

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Speaker 2: the right decision, whatever that decision is about.

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Speaker 1: AI. How does that fit into that story? Then? If

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Speaker 1: you think of how we all behaved twelve months ago,

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Speaker 1: it is miles different to how we behave today. And

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Speaker 1: if I was to buy a Sellar house, I'd start

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Speaker 1: with chat GPT.

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Speaker 2: Really interestingly, that's not typically the journey, and I hark

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Speaker 2: back to I've had the privilege of a career ARC

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Speaker 2: and I call it a privilege rather than being called old.

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Speaker 2: Of walking through that would veterans shocks and exactly you know,

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Speaker 2: my career started at the birth of the Internet and

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Speaker 2: then morphed through to you know, I spent on many

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Speaker 2: years at Google through the emergence of mobile phones and

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Speaker 2: different technologies and AI and the speed at which that's deployed.

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Speaker 2: People don't realize we're only two or three years into

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Speaker 2: chat GPT. I'm seeing the same patterns again. All of

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Speaker 2: these new platforms that came through new capabilities and power

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Speaker 2: users to do new things. And that's fantastic, But ultimately,

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Speaker 2: the confidence challenge doesn't move. That isn't core need. What

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Speaker 2: AI is enabling users to do is seek out new

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Speaker 2: ways of building that confidence. So, for example, you're turning

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Speaker 2: to chat GPT to really solve a question. Typically, what

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Speaker 2: we're seeing in chat GPT it's not let me find

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Speaker 2: a property, it's a specific question. Help me with valuation.

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Speaker 2: That's the number one need, And people are turning to

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Speaker 2: give me confidence that the price I'm willing to bid on,

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Speaker 2: the price I'm willing to sell is correct. But it's

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Speaker 2: a component of the journey, not the entire journey itself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I mean that's true. So if I was

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Speaker 1: to buy our seller house on go to domain, that's

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Speaker 1: my starting point. Well, however, the valuation point is really

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Speaker 1: well made because I wanted detailed information. Maybe that's where

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Speaker 1: I'd go.

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Speaker 2: The number one ask of any user in any country

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Speaker 2: to any portal is do you have all the listings?

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Speaker 2: Am I missing out on listings? You've got to think

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Speaker 2: about the psychology behind this is I am first and

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Speaker 2: foremost worried. There's a fear of missing out that I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to find or I'm going to miss out

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Speaker 2: on the perfect property that meets my needs. So that's

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Speaker 2: my number one And that's why you have these portals

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Speaker 2: around the world, and you have one, two or three portals,

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Speaker 2: because there is a lot of capability to actually gather

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Speaker 2: the most amount of listings that you have. Once you

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Speaker 2: get through that and people are confident that they can

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Speaker 2: come to domain and they're not going to miss listings

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Speaker 2: because we have the vast majority of listings across the country.

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Speaker 2: Then you get into specific needs and so yes, one

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Speaker 2: of them's pricing evaluation, but don't forget that. It then

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Speaker 2: extends into particularly for homes, do I feel that this

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Speaker 2: can become my home? And what we're seeing with AI

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Speaker 2: particularly is an emergence of actually bringing that experiential capability

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Speaker 2: into an online platform through three D tours, through immersive experiences.

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Speaker 2: Co Star, for example, is the owner of Mataport, which

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Speaker 2: is the world's largest and most expansive three D tour

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Speaker 2: technology and camera technology, and so that allows us to

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Speaker 2: get into that immerse sickness. So AI might be causing

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Speaker 2: some ability to look at and seek out those valuation referrals.

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Speaker 2: I would say we're using those AI capabilities and generator

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Speaker 2: on our own platform as well. But it's also creating

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Speaker 2: a lot of other opportunities, for example, like immersive tours.

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Speaker 1: Commercial property not something that domain is known for. Is

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Speaker 1: it something you'll push into.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. It's co Stars, Bread and Butter. It's a forty

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Speaker 2: year old company that has whose birth was really around

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Speaker 2: commercial data. Andy is the founder of that business and

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Speaker 2: continues to be the CEO nearly into his fourth decade

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Speaker 2: as CEO. And it started with a premise that commercial

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Speaker 2: property just didn't have the data and the access that

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Speaker 2: say stocks had with trading, and what's been created is

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Speaker 2: essentially the Bloomberg of commercial property in the US. So

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Speaker 2: it's a database, it's a subscription service that has access

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Speaker 2: to all of the most up to date, commercial availabilities, buildings,

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Speaker 2: owners leases and lease rates. So any question you want

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Speaker 2: to own answer whether you are a landlord, a tenant,

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Speaker 2: a broker, a bank, sit within that platform. Now, over

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Speaker 2: the course of the last ten years and a little

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Speaker 2: bit more, that platform has gone into national so it

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Speaker 2: has actually expanded the UK with really substantive coverage. France

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Speaker 2: has been launched in the last couple of years. In

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Speaker 2: Australia's next. So what I'm seeing Tomain, and what excites

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Speaker 2: me enormously is we've gone from a business where our

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Speaker 2: marketplace strategy under previous governance and ownership structure was really

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Speaker 2: about how do we focus on residential and how do

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Speaker 2: we really compete within this market as clearly the number

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Speaker 2: two player, but with a much more broad based approach

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Speaker 2: to supporting the needs of agents within this country, to

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Speaker 2: a completely new context and a completely new strategy of

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Speaker 2: really deeply doubling down and focusing on residential and on commercial.

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Speaker 2: And we're getting to bring to this country something that

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Speaker 2: just doesn't even exist. We're entering a white space in

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Speaker 2: commercial and Australia.

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Speaker 1: It seems commercial real estate in Australia, I'm sure it's

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Speaker 1: been disrupted, right, But it doesn't seem to have been

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Speaker 1: disrupted as many other industries yet.

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Speaker 2: I think property has that feature that's quite consistent, and

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Speaker 2: I hark back to my time at Google. The first

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Speaker 2: industries to get disrupted, whether it was the wave of

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Speaker 2: the Internet or the wave of mobile, every time a

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Speaker 2: platform comes along that allows the new capability, industries get disrupted.

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Speaker 2: The first industry to get disrupted are the ones with

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Speaker 2: high volume turnover, low price points, less emotional attachment because

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Speaker 2: you can flip really quickly. So they were credit cards,

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Speaker 2: they were some levels of simple travel rather than what

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Speaker 2: I call emotional experiential travel. You saw those really flip

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Speaker 2: at the beginning of the Internet classifieds, for example, from

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Speaker 2: print to digital, very simple transition and disruption that occurred.

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Speaker 2: When you went to mobile, you saw another set of disruptions.

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Speaker 2: And this is the birthplace of the ubers and the airbnbs,

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Speaker 2: where mobility allowed service delivery that was constrained. It couldn't

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Speaker 2: be done online. And so every single time that happens,

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Speaker 2: something comes along and it's disrupted. Property is tough because

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Speaker 2: the frequency of transaction is very low. Typically people transact

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Speaker 2: once every ten years. Residential property and that's actually moved

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Speaker 2: out in Australia. It is a very high price point.

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Speaker 2: It matters if you get it wrong. And it's the

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Speaker 2: third aspect is it's deeply emotional. It's not just about

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Speaker 2: the numbers and the sense that you know, there is

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Speaker 2: a feeling that you have around property that's critically important.

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Speaker 2: So those three factors mean that the transition online takes longer.

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Speaker 1: What does domain look like in five years time?

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Speaker 2: Domain is going to look like a fundamentally different business.

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Speaker 2: So I have three priorities that I've agreed with Andy

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Speaker 2: and we are delivering it. We are going to transform

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Speaker 2: the Australian residential market. We are going to bring data

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Speaker 2: experiences that don't exist, that haven't exist, and we're going

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Speaker 2: to invest heavily to bring those to life. In a

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Speaker 2: world of AI. We are going to invest heavily in

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Speaker 2: unique data, data collection, differentiated data and experiences. We are

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Speaker 2: going to be providing experiential services across our platforms and

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Speaker 2: are not going to be available elsewhere, and we're going

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Speaker 2: to do that. We're going to deliver that on a

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Speaker 2: global basis and Australia will be up there in terms

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Speaker 2: of the priorities and the frequency, but we'll be getting

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Speaker 2: world class capabilities and service. My second priority is a

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Speaker 2: commercial business, So we're not talking about transforming, we're talking

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Speaker 2: about creating something that doesn't exist and allowing people to

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Speaker 2: really start understanding the Australian commercial property landscape at a

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Speaker 2: level of detail and a level of rigor and analytical

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Speaker 2: capabilities that doesn't exist before. So a fundamentally a service

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Speaker 2: that can support those decisions. And then the third one

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Speaker 2: that I have, it's a priority, which is really interesting

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Speaker 2: because it steps into leadership because those two priorities are

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Speaker 2: a long way from our previous priority. And at the

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Speaker 2: same time, I'm merging an Australian business with deep cultural

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Speaker 2: roots and really a cultural heritage that has been within

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Speaker 2: large corporates, either as a division or as a major shareholder,

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Speaker 2: into a US organization that is fundamentally a founder led

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Speaker 2: organization and moves at that pace. And so that transition

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Speaker 2: doesn't happen overnight, and that transition doesn't happen without the

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Speaker 2: right shepherding and leadership through that. So will be a

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Speaker 2: fundamentally different business operating in a fundamentally different way.

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Speaker 1: Jason, thank you for talking to Hearing Greed. Thank you

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Speaker 1: as Jason Pellagrino, president of Domain, which is a trip

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Speaker 1: supported this podcast. I'm Sean and this is here in Greed,

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Speaker 1: Q and DA