WEBVTT - Childhood immunity. A chat with Dr Emma Beckett 0:00:05.921 --> 0:00:07.281 Appogia production. 0:00:10.121 --> 0:00:13.521 Hi everyone, thank you for tuning back into Tenantus for Nurses. 0:00:13.601 --> 0:00:18.241 I suspec Woodbine here this season. I am so excited 0:00:18.281 --> 0:00:21.200 to announce that the podcast is being supported by Nutritia, 0:00:21.361 --> 0:00:25.761 which is a global leader in medical nutrition. They understand 0:00:25.801 --> 0:00:28.041 the needs of nurses in the nutrition space and for 0:00:28.121 --> 0:00:31.361 over one hundred and twenty five years have provided products 0:00:31.401 --> 0:00:35.681 to support child health. Some of Nutrita's pediatric brands include 0:00:35.841 --> 0:00:39.521 Neo Kate Junior for children who have food allergies and 0:00:39.561 --> 0:00:41.801 app to Grow for those fussy eaters. And those of 0:00:41.881 --> 0:00:45.681 us who have children know many kids who go through 0:00:45.721 --> 0:00:50.040 the phases of definite fussiness. For more information and resources, 0:00:50.281 --> 0:00:54.081 visit the nutritiona Pediatrics hub at nutritia dot com dot 0:00:54.121 --> 0:00:57.401 au forward slash Pediatrics. I just want to say a 0:00:57.561 --> 0:01:00.841 huge thank you to Nutritia. Their desire to support nurses 0:01:00.881 --> 0:01:04.121 is truly appreciated, and they are allowing me to continue 0:01:04.161 --> 0:01:07.001 this podcast so that we can all grow as nurses. 0:01:07.641 --> 0:01:10.640 This season, we have some amazing speakers in the pediatric 0:01:10.681 --> 0:01:14.000 space which I cannot wait to share with you all. Hi, 0:01:14.081 --> 0:01:17.161 my name's Beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for nurses. 0:01:17.761 --> 0:01:21.521 I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity 0:01:21.601 --> 0:01:25.161 to be, so I hit it and parked it for 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:28.401 Nelly four years. We always have free will, We always 0:01:28.441 --> 0:01:30.361 get to choose. We are autonomous. 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.481 Hi everyone, thank you for tuning back in to Tenderness 0:01:35.481 --> 0:01:38.281 for Nurses. My name's beck Woodbine and I'm a nurse 0:01:38.321 --> 0:01:42.761 practitioner and today we have the fabulous doctor Emma Beckett 0:01:43.041 --> 0:01:47.000 chatting with us, and we're actually talking about immunity in 0:01:47.041 --> 0:01:51.601 the first thousand days of a child's life. We'll be 0:01:51.801 --> 0:01:54.281 touching on a few other bits and pieces along the way, 0:01:54.841 --> 0:01:58.881 but I'm really excited about this conversation. When I speak 0:01:58.921 --> 0:02:01.241 to my clients that have come in or have skin 0:02:01.321 --> 0:02:03.601 issues around because they've just had a barb or about 0:02:03.641 --> 0:02:05.841 to have a barb, and one of the things that's 0:02:05.841 --> 0:02:09.801 always discussed is feeding. It's just one of those things 0:02:09.841 --> 0:02:12.161 that mums always tend to ask other mums, how are 0:02:12.161 --> 0:02:12.681 you feeding? 0:02:13.321 --> 0:02:14.481 You know you're getting some sleep. 0:02:15.201 --> 0:02:18.840 And I think it's a really great conversation to have 0:02:19.561 --> 0:02:23.721 in that we don't judge mums for whatever choices they make. 0:02:23.881 --> 0:02:26.481 We all know that breast is best, but sometimes for 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:28.641 whatever reasons, whether you have to go back to work, 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:33.081 Buba isn't feeding well, mum's not making enough milk. There 0:02:33.121 --> 0:02:36.961 could be so many different circumstances that sometimes mums do 0:02:37.041 --> 0:02:39.680 have to make the choice of bottle feeding. And that's 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:42.321 where the conversation with doctor Emma is coming in, and 0:02:42.361 --> 0:02:44.641 we're going to unpack this a little bit so that 0:02:44.721 --> 0:02:47.721 you all have a little bit more knowledge so that 0:02:47.761 --> 0:02:50.081 we can all be supportive of each other, whether that 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.281 is breastfeeding, which we know is the ultimate choice and 0:02:53.321 --> 0:02:54.801 the one that we should all be going for the 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:58.161 gold standard, but if you can't, it's all about making 0:02:58.201 --> 0:03:02.401 good decisions for your bubba. So welcome Emma, how are you? 0:03:03.001 --> 0:03:05.881 Hello and wonderful, thank you for having me. So why 0:03:06.081 --> 0:03:09.481 don't you explain a little bit of your background for 0:03:10.001 --> 0:03:11.521 people that are listening today. 0:03:12.001 --> 0:03:17.601 So I'm a food nutrition scientist, biomedical scientist, communicator and educator. 0:03:18.081 --> 0:03:21.761 So I'm a very multifaceted professional and I love that 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:25.201 because it gives me an opportunity to look at interactions 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:30.801 and intersections between different sciences. I got interested in immunology 0:03:31.001 --> 0:03:34.720 because I'm a child of two geologists, and geology is 0:03:34.761 --> 0:03:36.881 a very slow science and so when I started my 0:03:36.881 --> 0:03:40.001 BioMed degree, I got very fascinated by the small things 0:03:40.041 --> 0:03:42.921 that happened quickly in the body that you couldn't see. 0:03:43.121 --> 0:03:46.481 Then I moved into nutrition as I got further into 0:03:46.521 --> 0:03:51.161 my career because I realized there's no immunology without nutrition. 0:03:51.401 --> 0:03:56.081 If you're giving vaccines to a malnourished baby, that's not 0:03:56.201 --> 0:03:59.201 going to be very helpful. And so nutrition for me 0:03:59.361 --> 0:04:02.761 was the science that helped everyone. And then I got 0:04:02.801 --> 0:04:05.881 into nutrition communication because I realized my point knowing all 0:04:05.921 --> 0:04:08.441 these things, if we can't share them with people in 0:04:08.481 --> 0:04:11.081 a way that can actually change what they're doing and 0:04:11.161 --> 0:04:13.241 change the world for the better. So I've ended up 0:04:13.281 --> 0:04:16.041 in this messy space where I'm kind of not a 0:04:16.041 --> 0:04:19.361 specialist anymore. I'm a generalist with overlapping specialties. But I 0:04:19.361 --> 0:04:21.841 feel like it's a very powerful space to help people. 0:04:21.961 --> 0:04:24.080 Oh my god, that's like a nurse practitioner. 0:04:24.801 --> 0:04:27.440 We know a little bit about a lot in our 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:31.161 specialties that we've segue into. Yes, we know more, but 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:34.081 we know a little bit about a lot. Some thing's 0:04:34.121 --> 0:04:36.760 a lot about a lot. But that's exactly what the 0:04:36.801 --> 0:04:40.081 space that nurse practitioners did in is where you are currently. 0:04:39.681 --> 0:04:42.601 And the power is sharing it with people, right, which 0:04:42.641 --> 0:04:46.281 is another thing that nurse practitioners specialize in, because the 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:48.840 information is nothing if we can't get it to people 0:04:48.841 --> 0:04:51.041 in a way that actually works for them. 0:04:51.201 --> 0:04:54.201 Yeah, dissemination is paramount in healthcare. 0:04:54.641 --> 0:05:00.200 I am quite fascinated by you because you add a 0:05:00.241 --> 0:05:05.001 really quirky spin to nutrition to education. Got a huge 0:05:05.121 --> 0:05:09.721 following on social media. Why did it become so paramount 0:05:09.761 --> 0:05:14.281 to you to start sharing this information about immunity and 0:05:14.841 --> 0:05:17.281 immunology and babies. 0:05:18.001 --> 0:05:20.281 Firstly, there's a lot of bad information out there, and 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:25.041 there's a lot of beautiful people talking stories about inflammation 0:05:25.921 --> 0:05:28.960 that aren't quite correct. They might have kind of a 0:05:29.081 --> 0:05:32.561 root in science that then gets spun into something a 0:05:32.601 --> 0:05:35.721 little bit more confusing. So it's important to be your 0:05:35.801 --> 0:05:39.321 whole self in communication because there's a lot of people 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:43.161 using a lot of parts of their lives as hooks 0:05:43.561 --> 0:05:47.640 to share non scientific information. But for me, this whole 0:05:48.121 --> 0:05:52.601 story of immunity and particularly early life immunity, if I 0:05:52.641 --> 0:05:56.440 think about my values as a communicator and as a scientist, 0:05:56.961 --> 0:06:01.601 it's very much centered around fairness and that first thousand 0:06:01.721 --> 0:06:05.761 days of life is about programming. It's a out setting 0:06:05.801 --> 0:06:08.681 the scene. It's about laying the foundations. I've always been 0:06:08.681 --> 0:06:10.681 interested in things in my career about how do we 0:06:10.761 --> 0:06:14.440 level that playing field and make sure everyone gets a 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:16.880 good go or everyone gets the chance to be the 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:20.161 best version of themselves possible, And so by sharing nutrition 0:06:20.201 --> 0:06:23.440 information in my own way, I hope to be a 0:06:23.481 --> 0:06:26.161 part of doing better in that space. 0:06:27.081 --> 0:06:30.201 I did many years ago a stint at Logan Hospital, 0:06:30.801 --> 0:06:34.961 which back in those days was lower socioeconomic area. 0:06:35.001 --> 0:06:36.361 And I'm not a midwife. 0:06:36.961 --> 0:06:39.400 I was working the operating theaters there but knew some 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:42.601 of the midwives and I remember them saying some of 0:06:42.641 --> 0:06:46.001 these young girls would come in and they would encourage 0:06:46.161 --> 0:06:49.721 breastfeeding because it was free, but they knew that the 0:06:49.761 --> 0:06:52.081 minute they left the hospital they were going to bottle 0:06:52.081 --> 0:06:53.801 feed these babies. 0:06:54.401 --> 0:06:55.321 I used to. 0:06:55.281 --> 0:06:59.280 Do some lists in the dental area. These mums would 0:06:59.281 --> 0:07:03.801 come in with bottles full of coke, and the baby 0:07:03.841 --> 0:07:07.361 would be in having all their teeth removed like a toddler, 0:07:07.841 --> 0:07:10.681 and then the new bub would be there sitting in 0:07:10.721 --> 0:07:14.161 the prem with the coke, and I really felt we 0:07:14.241 --> 0:07:18.841 let them down and if there had have been products 0:07:18.881 --> 0:07:22.201 or education more strongly around that area, would have they 0:07:22.281 --> 0:07:26.441 continued to be making the same mistakes or is that 0:07:26.521 --> 0:07:29.681 all they knew? And now that we've got social media 0:07:29.761 --> 0:07:35.201 and that ability to disseminate good information, surely we should 0:07:35.241 --> 0:07:37.001 be doing that. But then how do you know what's 0:07:37.041 --> 0:07:38.641 good information and what's not good information? 0:07:39.321 --> 0:07:42.201 I think you've hit on something really important there. In nutrition, 0:07:42.441 --> 0:07:45.801 it's not just what we say, it's what we don't say. 0:07:46.201 --> 0:07:49.601 And if we don't fill the gaps, then people need 0:07:49.641 --> 0:07:52.161 to fill those gaps for themselves. And we spend a 0:07:52.161 --> 0:07:55.801 lot of time talking about what's perfect and what's best, 0:07:56.241 --> 0:07:58.841 and we just hope that people find their way to 0:07:58.921 --> 0:08:01.201 perfect and best and come on that journey with us. 0:08:01.201 --> 0:08:03.801 And that's true in early life nutrition, and that's true 0:08:03.921 --> 0:08:08.761 in adult and childhood and everything else nutrition. So I 0:08:08.801 --> 0:08:11.761 think there's a lot of power in talking about, even 0:08:11.801 --> 0:08:14.840 if it's not perfect, how do we make the best 0:08:14.881 --> 0:08:17.321 of it, and what are our choices that we can 0:08:17.401 --> 0:08:21.681 make that fit within people's circumstances that actually support them 0:08:21.801 --> 0:08:24.121 where they are. So meeting people where they're at, I 0:08:24.121 --> 0:08:26.121 think is a really important thing, not just in nutrition 0:08:26.201 --> 0:08:27.361 but in healthcare generally. 0:08:28.201 --> 0:08:31.641 Couldn't agree with you more so, sometimes you just have 0:08:31.721 --> 0:08:34.841 to assume that someone knows nothing and just break it 0:08:34.881 --> 0:08:36.281 down for them and give it to them in a 0:08:36.321 --> 0:08:40.561 kind manner, of course. But I know when I had 0:08:40.801 --> 0:08:43.961 my son major issues, total refusal to eat in and 0:08:43.961 --> 0:08:47.721 out of hospital, fed with a naser gastric tube, and 0:08:47.761 --> 0:08:51.561 then at the end wouldn't even feed from a bottle. Thankfully, 0:08:51.761 --> 0:08:54.801 I had great people around me, and I was four 0:08:54.841 --> 0:08:57.961 months we were actually starting to feed him food because 0:08:57.961 --> 0:09:01.961 you just total refusal to drink. But what happens if 0:09:01.961 --> 0:09:03.761 people don't have those people around them. 0:09:04.241 --> 0:09:07.281 It's a really good question, because if you don't have 0:09:07.361 --> 0:09:10.961 that support, it's very difficult to know where to get 0:09:10.961 --> 0:09:15.681 that information from. And we often rely on instinct or 0:09:15.681 --> 0:09:18.361 we rely on what people around us are telling us. 0:09:18.881 --> 0:09:23.681 But knowing how quickly medicine changes, how quickly science changes, 0:09:24.201 --> 0:09:27.321 if we're just relying on the kindness of strangers or 0:09:27.321 --> 0:09:29.961 the kindness of family members, we can get left behind 0:09:30.121 --> 0:09:33.841 quite quickly and not be doing what's best in our situation. 0:09:34.081 --> 0:09:36.441 So it is really difficult. And being able to share 0:09:36.481 --> 0:09:39.161 good quality information and get it to people in a 0:09:39.201 --> 0:09:41.281 way that they can use, I think it's so important. 0:09:41.921 --> 0:09:47.521 So you're currently working on a website for healthcare professionals 0:09:47.561 --> 0:09:51.441 to get information about feeding, whether that be mixed feeding 0:09:52.041 --> 0:09:55.401 or bottle feeding. And we know breast is best, and 0:09:55.441 --> 0:09:58.441 we are absolutely two hundred and ten percent promoting that. 0:09:59.281 --> 0:10:02.281 We are just talking in this podcast in relation to 0:10:02.921 --> 0:10:05.681 those families where they might choose mixed feeds or they 0:10:05.761 --> 0:10:09.961 might choose another option such as formula feeding. So we 0:10:10.001 --> 0:10:13.881 are not disparaging breastfeeding. But for those of us who 0:10:13.921 --> 0:10:16.361 have had to go back to work early done some 0:10:16.441 --> 0:10:19.401 mixed feeding, it's good to get that information. And you've 0:10:19.681 --> 0:10:23.521 been working on a website in relation to that, haven't you. 0:10:24.121 --> 0:10:26.881 Yeah, So the website for health professionals, and we've got 0:10:26.881 --> 0:10:29.761 a fact sheet specifically for nurses that's a guide to 0:10:29.881 --> 0:10:34.561 help in the conversations, because if you're empowered as a professional, 0:10:34.681 --> 0:10:37.961 then you can empower people that you work with. And 0:10:38.041 --> 0:10:41.841 it's about, as you said, not comparing different types of feeding, 0:10:41.961 --> 0:10:45.641 but knowing everything that is in the toolkit so that 0:10:45.681 --> 0:10:49.281 the optimal decisions can be made to support immunity in 0:10:49.281 --> 0:10:52.481 that early life. Because if we lay that foundation right 0:10:52.601 --> 0:10:57.201 early on, then we don't just reduce the risk of 0:10:57.361 --> 0:11:00.841 infection and gastro intestinal upsets and those kinds of things 0:11:00.841 --> 0:11:04.321 that are very important in early life. We're laying a 0:11:04.361 --> 0:11:09.081 foundation for immunity for the rest of our lives as well. 0:11:09.481 --> 0:11:14.481 So knowing that breast is best if formula is required, 0:11:15.001 --> 0:11:18.241 that not all formulas are created equal. They're all going 0:11:18.281 --> 0:11:21.401 to have the basic nutrients that you need. But we 0:11:21.561 --> 0:11:24.481 know now that nutrition is so much more than just 0:11:24.601 --> 0:11:28.041 essentral nutrients. So it's not just about having the building 0:11:28.121 --> 0:11:31.201 blocks to create the things that grow a baby and 0:11:31.321 --> 0:11:35.641 keep that gut healthy and that immune system thriving, but 0:11:35.721 --> 0:11:40.521 it's about the biological signals that are sent. And there's 0:11:40.561 --> 0:11:47.041 different things in different formulas, and particularly bioactive compounds like prebiotics, 0:11:47.441 --> 0:11:51.681 that can change the way those formulas influence the immune system. 0:11:52.161 --> 0:11:56.041 And knowing that selecting a formula that has those prebiotics 0:11:56.161 --> 0:11:59.121 is going to give you that better outcome for immunity 0:12:00.121 --> 0:12:02.721 can help reassure a mum that she is making the 0:12:02.801 --> 0:12:05.681 right decision, because we hear a lot about breast milk 0:12:05.761 --> 0:12:09.441 being important for those immune factors that are communicated from 0:12:09.481 --> 0:12:12.481 the mum to the bub but it's not just the 0:12:12.521 --> 0:12:16.161 direct communication of immune factors that impact the baby's immune system. 0:12:16.201 --> 0:12:19.521 It's also things like prebiotics that are in the milk 0:12:19.761 --> 0:12:22.161 or can be added to the formula as well. 0:12:22.841 --> 0:12:26.801 What is the difference between a prebiotic and a probiotic. 0:12:27.721 --> 0:12:33.401 So probiotics are when we add living bacteria, so the 0:12:33.441 --> 0:12:37.441 bacteria is able to pass through digestion and colonize in 0:12:37.481 --> 0:12:38.761 the gastro intestinal track. 0:12:38.881 --> 0:12:40.121 That's probiotic. 0:12:40.801 --> 0:12:46.081 Probiotic is a step before that because prebiotics feed those bacteria. 0:12:46.681 --> 0:12:51.761 So if you're taking probiotics but you're not getting enough prebiotics, 0:12:52.321 --> 0:12:55.281 you're potentially just throwing those bacteria down there and not 0:12:55.401 --> 0:12:59.961 giving them what they need to survive. Prebiotics aren't digested 0:13:00.001 --> 0:13:03.241 by us, but by the gut bacteria, and particularly the 0:13:03.281 --> 0:13:06.241 good gut bacteria, the ones that producing all the things 0:13:06.281 --> 0:13:09.801 that do stuff like strengthen our gush and help our 0:13:09.801 --> 0:13:10.681 immune system. 0:13:11.121 --> 0:13:12.721 And so the probiotics could. 0:13:12.481 --> 0:13:16.121 Be things like fibers, complex sugars, or they could be 0:13:16.161 --> 0:13:19.281 things like polyphenols, but the key thing is they're good 0:13:19.321 --> 0:13:20.201 bacteria food. 0:13:20.361 --> 0:13:26.801 Probiotics in formulas are they're probiotics or you're looking at 0:13:26.841 --> 0:13:27.961 just the prebiotics. 0:13:28.561 --> 0:13:32.001 So you can add probiotics two formulas as well, and 0:13:32.041 --> 0:13:34.841 you'll often see formulas that have both a probiotic and 0:13:34.961 --> 0:13:40.361 a prebiotic. The bulk of the evidence around improving immunity, 0:13:40.521 --> 0:13:43.441 gut function in early life, reducing risk of infection in 0:13:43.481 --> 0:13:47.961 early life comes from the prebiotics, not from the probiotics. 0:13:48.361 --> 0:13:52.361 So the probiotics specifically is where the data says we're 0:13:52.401 --> 0:13:53.441 seeing this benefit. 0:13:54.121 --> 0:13:56.841 And how does that work if it's food for the bacteria. 0:13:57.481 --> 0:14:02.521 So the bacteria are already seeded in the gastro intestinal tracts. 0:14:02.561 --> 0:14:07.721 So baby is born with some microbiota that comes from mum, 0:14:08.281 --> 0:14:11.561 and it's acquired from all around the environment. If you've 0:14:11.601 --> 0:14:13.601 got a kid, you'll know they'll put anything in their mouth. 0:14:13.721 --> 0:14:13.921 Yep. 0:14:14.241 --> 0:14:17.841 And so the prebiotics are about feeding the good ones 0:14:18.001 --> 0:14:22.121 and maintaining that balance in a beneficial way, as opposed 0:14:22.121 --> 0:14:23.161 to adding things in. 0:14:24.481 --> 0:14:27.441 So let's go back a couple of steps. When you 0:14:27.481 --> 0:14:33.121 are feeding a little one a pre biotic, you're helping 0:14:33.201 --> 0:14:38.761 them avoid infections, colds, coughs, flues, gestros. What the number 0:14:38.801 --> 0:14:42.121 one hospitalization for babies up to what too? 0:14:42.161 --> 0:14:42.641 Would that be? 0:14:42.761 --> 0:14:45.041 Yep? And infection up to three years is the number 0:14:45.081 --> 0:14:46.241 one reason to see. 0:14:46.041 --> 0:14:49.161 A doctor any infection. We're talking respiratory, we're talking guard 0:14:49.241 --> 0:14:53.361 we're talking anything. So if you then do your immunizations 0:14:53.801 --> 0:14:56.881 and you've got these prebiotics on board as well as 0:14:56.921 --> 0:15:00.641 your probiotics, does that mean that uptake of that vaccine 0:15:00.721 --> 0:15:01.521 is going to be better. 0:15:02.281 --> 0:15:06.401 Yes, So it's it's important to remember that if we're 0:15:06.441 --> 0:15:11.721 giving vaccines and we want them to have a good 0:15:11.801 --> 0:15:15.681 immune response to protect the child for later, we need 0:15:15.721 --> 0:15:17.881 that child to be nourished, so they need to have 0:15:18.001 --> 0:15:22.201 all of the basic nutrients. But it's becoming more evident 0:15:22.441 --> 0:15:26.681 that that early life programming is not just about the 0:15:26.761 --> 0:15:28.841 vaccine in and of itself. It's not just about the 0:15:28.921 --> 0:15:32.241 nutrition in and of itself. It's about the signaling that 0:15:32.281 --> 0:15:35.001 occurs at the same time. So all these things are 0:15:35.001 --> 0:15:39.401 interacting with each other, and we know throughout life that 0:15:39.481 --> 0:15:41.921 what happens in the gut has a knock on effect 0:15:42.081 --> 0:15:45.201 to all the other areas in the body, but particularly 0:15:45.281 --> 0:15:48.761 for the immune system because the majority of our immune 0:15:48.841 --> 0:15:52.081 cells are in the gut, and that makes sense because 0:15:52.441 --> 0:15:56.361 that's where the body is exposed to so many things externally, 0:15:57.241 --> 0:16:00.961 and so by making sure that we nurture that in 0:16:01.041 --> 0:16:05.481 early life, we're part of making sure that balance works. 0:16:05.521 --> 0:16:08.121 Because immunity is really tricky. You don't just want to 0:16:08.161 --> 0:16:12.201 go immune response on. You want to go we're responding 0:16:12.241 --> 0:16:15.041 to the right things in immunity, and we're not over 0:16:15.161 --> 0:16:19.041 responding to self or to normal exposures, because that's when 0:16:19.041 --> 0:16:22.481 autoimmune conditions, that's when allergies become a problem. 0:16:22.801 --> 0:16:24.961 So it's this really fine balance. 0:16:25.361 --> 0:16:27.081 And I don't say that to stress people out, as 0:16:27.121 --> 0:16:29.721 in you're going to get it wrong, But it's about 0:16:30.321 --> 0:16:35.001 balancing those responses for ongoing programming. So we want to 0:16:35.001 --> 0:16:37.081 be able not to overreact, we want to react to 0:16:37.121 --> 0:16:39.361 the right things, and we want to support all those 0:16:39.361 --> 0:16:42.281 pathways to work at the same time, rather than just 0:16:42.321 --> 0:16:43.801 focusing on one or the other. 0:16:44.841 --> 0:16:48.441 Let's say you're a new mum. 0:16:48.761 --> 0:16:53.161 You've breastfed for the first month six weeks, but just 0:16:53.201 --> 0:16:55.961 because of financial concerns, you have to go back to 0:16:55.961 --> 0:16:57.681 work and you're working part time, so you've made the 0:16:57.721 --> 0:17:02.881 decision to mixed feed, and but will take the bottle? 0:17:03.001 --> 0:17:05.321 I mean, I know my daughter totally refused the bottom. Also, 0:17:05.521 --> 0:17:09.080 she was breastfeed the whole way through. Bub's taking the bottle. 0:17:09.681 --> 0:17:13.920 The family's got itself sorted. What can you expect to 0:17:14.041 --> 0:17:18.640 see by adding in a bubby formula that's got the 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:23.680 probiotics in it. Do you do a gentle start, do 0:17:23.721 --> 0:17:27.241 you just go straight in and morning and night breastfeed 0:17:27.281 --> 0:17:29.921 and in between you just do bottle Like how does 0:17:30.241 --> 0:17:33.360 a parent do it? How do you add mixed feeding 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:34.441 to the regime. 0:17:35.041 --> 0:17:38.201 The introduction is going to depend on the situation for 0:17:38.241 --> 0:17:41.200 the mum and bub We talk about when people are 0:17:41.201 --> 0:17:45.120 introducing probiotics and fibers in adults, we always talk about 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:49.680 introducing it slowly because once you start feeding the gut bacteria, 0:17:49.721 --> 0:17:53.001 they start fermenting, and fermenting creates gas, and so that 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.961 can be unpleasant when you're adapting. 0:17:56.521 --> 0:17:57.600 But when you're. 0:17:57.481 --> 0:18:02.080 Looking at introducing a probiotic in a formula, it's really 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:05.481 going to depend on the needs of introducing that for formula, 0:18:05.681 --> 0:18:10.080 and the gastro intestinal environment and the social aspects of 0:18:10.201 --> 0:18:12.720 things like gas are very different when. 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:14.401 You're a child, absolutely, and so. 0:18:16.241 --> 0:18:18.880 Kids are allowed to have gas on and adults we 0:18:18.961 --> 0:18:23.001 are socially less acceptable. So introducing the formula in a 0:18:23.001 --> 0:18:25.880 way that's needed and having that probiotic there at the 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:30.241 same time is definitely the priority. So having the probiotic 0:18:30.481 --> 0:18:34.001 is an excellent bonus that I would encourage, but getting 0:18:34.001 --> 0:18:36.720 the formula in so the bubb is fed first is 0:18:36.801 --> 0:18:40.080 obviously the most important step. And I've just realized I 0:18:40.120 --> 0:18:42.521 keep saying prebiotics like as though you know that will 0:18:42.521 --> 0:18:44.881 be written on the tin when you're looking at a formula, 0:18:44.961 --> 0:18:47.920 and it's probably not going to say prebiotics on the 0:18:47.961 --> 0:18:50.080 front of pack. And so what you want to be 0:18:50.120 --> 0:18:53.160 looking for when you're looking for a prebiotic is in 0:18:53.241 --> 0:18:57.400 the ingredients list. The number one performing in the data 0:18:57.481 --> 0:19:01.561 of the probiotics are a combination that's called goss and 0:19:01.761 --> 0:19:07.361 foss so galacto oligosaccharides and fructo oligo sachrides. So those 0:19:07.360 --> 0:19:09.880 are really big words, but they'll be written out in full. 0:19:10.281 --> 0:19:14.921 Galacto oligosacride and fructo oligosachride will be written out in 0:19:15.001 --> 0:19:17.041 the ingredients list of these formulas. 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:19.440 So that's really what you want to look for, amazing. 0:19:20.041 --> 0:19:24.041 So I will add those to the show notes so 0:19:24.360 --> 0:19:26.761 that if you guys are interested or want to share 0:19:26.761 --> 0:19:29.840 that information, they will be there for you what the 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.441 full name of the prebiotics are, so that it's there 0:19:33.441 --> 0:19:34.400 in black and white for you. 0:19:34.441 --> 0:19:36.761 And I'll get doctor Emma to check it for us, 0:19:37.281 --> 0:19:37.961 the role. 0:19:37.761 --> 0:19:42.960 Of the nurse in educating mums and dads and families 0:19:43.281 --> 0:19:46.080 around good feeding habits. 0:19:46.241 --> 0:19:47.160 When does that start. 0:19:48.281 --> 0:19:50.680 I think the role of the nurse begins immediately, and 0:19:50.761 --> 0:19:52.920 I don't think it ends. I think as one of 0:19:52.961 --> 0:19:57.761 the most trusted professions and one of the most accessible 0:19:58.041 --> 0:20:03.961 healthcare providers, there's a lot of incidental inquiries about these 0:20:04.041 --> 0:20:08.280 kinds of things, dental conversations that happen, and I think 0:20:08.321 --> 0:20:12.441 that's true throughout the entire lifespan, but it matters particularly 0:20:12.481 --> 0:20:15.600 in early life because in early life we are laying 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:19.041 this foundation, but we're also laying a foundation about these 0:20:19.041 --> 0:20:24.281 conversations and the fantastic role that nurses can play acknowledging 0:20:24.321 --> 0:20:27.321 their scope of practice is not dietetics, it's not nutrition, 0:20:28.120 --> 0:20:32.361 but being able to have kind and clear and empowering 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:36.480 conversations so that people can access that entire toolkit. It 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:41.360 helps parents feel supported, it helps baby be nourished, but 0:20:41.441 --> 0:20:45.721 it also reinforces that role of nurses as that caring 0:20:45.801 --> 0:20:49.241 an accessible profession because there's a lot of times where 0:20:49.281 --> 0:20:52.721 people are not comfortable having these conversations because they're afraid 0:20:52.761 --> 0:20:55.880 of being judged, and so if a nurse can have 0:20:56.001 --> 0:21:00.400 these conversations without judgment and with kindness and backed by evidence, 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:04.761 then that reduces the fear of having these conversations again 0:21:04.801 --> 0:21:07.600 with nurse in the future in a more empowering way. 0:21:07.681 --> 0:21:10.721 So I cannot stress enough how much I think nurses 0:21:10.721 --> 0:21:14.281 can play a really positive role in improving these outcomes 0:21:14.321 --> 0:21:15.881 for babies and their parents. 0:21:17.001 --> 0:21:21.161 Since you have introduced and done research into prebiotic being 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:25.041 added into formulas, were you able to get a good 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:29.200 reading of the reduction of hospital visits or do some 0:21:29.561 --> 0:21:32.201 research into that area of the impact it, you'd have. 0:21:32.961 --> 0:21:38.361 So there's data that shows reduction in infection rates, not 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:43.041 necessarily hospitalizations, not because that doesn't happen, but probably because 0:21:43.041 --> 0:21:47.521 that's not been looked at yet. But there is the 0:21:47.561 --> 0:21:50.961 reduction in infection rates, and there's a lot of data 0:21:51.120 --> 0:21:54.640 for the actual functional changes that we know will have 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:56.680 a knock on effects. So it's important to remember in 0:21:56.721 --> 0:22:00.041 science we don't always look at the end outcome directly. 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:04.681 Sometimes we're looking at the different functional and biological markers 0:22:04.801 --> 0:22:08.680 long the way and then putting that together to be 0:22:08.721 --> 0:22:11.721 able to make the recommendation for how things would and 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:15.200 could fit together. Because obviously that endpoint of infection is 0:22:15.241 --> 0:22:19.241 a very complex one, but there's good data for things 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:24.681 like increasing good bacteria in the gastro intestinal tract. There's 0:22:24.721 --> 0:22:30.080 good data for increasing the amount of IgA which is produced, 0:22:30.120 --> 0:22:34.441 and that's the globulin is something that we're encouraging breastfeeding 0:22:34.761 --> 0:22:37.321 for so getting that from mum. So that's one of 0:22:37.360 --> 0:22:42.321 the anti bodies that's going to help protect bub against infections. 0:22:42.961 --> 0:22:48.201 And we see improvements in things like staol consistency, stool frequency, 0:22:49.001 --> 0:22:53.281 reductions in pH of the stool, which means we've got 0:22:53.321 --> 0:22:57.720 more of the good metabolites being made by the gut bacteria. 0:22:58.201 --> 0:23:01.801 And so if you put all that together, it makes 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:04.880 sense that this is going to reduce infection rates and 0:23:05.120 --> 0:23:07.600 then hopefully that has a knock on effect of things 0:23:07.681 --> 0:23:11.041 like hospitalization as well. But obviously we need to keep 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:12.080 collecting data. 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:14.241 On those things. And how do you collect the data 0:23:14.321 --> 0:23:15.680 is it through stool samples. 0:23:17.001 --> 0:23:19.721 So there's lots of different ways this research is done. 0:23:20.120 --> 0:23:23.720 It can be through health records, it can be through 0:23:24.041 --> 0:23:27.600 collecting stool samples, which again much easier in kids than 0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:30.400 it is in adults, and obviously looking at the biomarkers, 0:23:30.561 --> 0:23:33.200 looking at things like blood levels and those kinds of 0:23:33.281 --> 0:23:36.161 things as well. So a lot of really wonderful parents 0:23:36.201 --> 0:23:39.401 will have volunteered to be part of studies that look 0:23:39.441 --> 0:23:42.521 at putting these probiotics into formula and showing these benefits. 0:23:42.561 --> 0:23:45.241 And I think that's important to acknowledge because we can't 0:23:45.321 --> 0:23:49.880 keep improving the science if we don't have people who 0:23:50.321 --> 0:23:52.601 want to participate in the science. So I think that's 0:23:52.600 --> 0:23:54.680 a really great role that these mums and bubs have 0:23:54.721 --> 0:23:56.561 played to allow us. 0:23:56.120 --> 0:23:56.720 To keep growing. 0:23:56.961 --> 0:24:00.360 Actually, I just received a final questionnaire from the University 0:24:00.360 --> 0:24:03.241 of Queensland for a longitudel study that I did with 0:24:03.321 --> 0:24:06.801 my daughter about development. Totally forgot all about it until 0:24:06.801 --> 0:24:09.161 I got the final questionnaire and it was like, oh 0:24:09.201 --> 0:24:12.321 my goodness, I participated in something that went for twenty 0:24:12.360 --> 0:24:13.161 five years. 0:24:13.160 --> 0:24:13.761 Pretty cool. 0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:18.041 It's so powerful and in a few years maybe someone's 0:24:18.080 --> 0:24:21.681 doing a podcast sharing some new advice based on that study. 0:24:22.041 --> 0:24:25.241 Is just so impactful, and I think that really highlights 0:24:25.281 --> 0:24:28.321 what I was saying before about it's easy to take 0:24:28.360 --> 0:24:32.801 for granted raising children because we've raised children for eons. 0:24:33.281 --> 0:24:36.121 But as we learn more about the science, we can 0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:38.640 do better for those children. And we live in different 0:24:38.721 --> 0:24:41.681 environments now, and so we have different pressures to do 0:24:41.801 --> 0:24:44.840 better for those children. And when I think about a 0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:50.001 concept like prebiotics that's younger than me. Prebiotics has only 0:24:50.041 --> 0:24:54.321 been a term since nineteen ninety five. So if we 0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:56.841 relied on what my grandma told my mum, we really 0:24:56.880 --> 0:24:59.960 could be missing a trick in supporting immune health and 0:25:00.041 --> 0:25:01.281 in supporting parents. 0:25:02.120 --> 0:25:07.360 You spoke before about autoimmune ca conditions. Do the prebiotics 0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:11.720 help long term with that, not just with kids but 0:25:11.801 --> 0:25:16.281 with adults. Is the research looking into that currently directly? 0:25:16.281 --> 0:25:19.041 I wouldn't say that data is there yet, But again, 0:25:19.120 --> 0:25:22.080 from that join the dot's perspective, and knowing what we know, 0:25:23.160 --> 0:25:29.161 having a well programmed immune response to pathogens and priming 0:25:29.360 --> 0:25:33.561 that gut microbiota to be biased in the positive direction 0:25:34.400 --> 0:25:38.321 is very likely to have positive outcomes for other conditions 0:25:38.321 --> 0:25:40.720 as well. But I wouldn't want to overstate that not 0:25:40.801 --> 0:25:43.521 having that data yet. The data is really clear for 0:25:43.761 --> 0:25:46.641 gut function, it's really clear for the gut bacteria. It's 0:25:46.681 --> 0:25:49.240 really clear for the metabolites that are being produced. But 0:25:49.321 --> 0:25:51.400 we do need to do more research to get that 0:25:51.441 --> 0:25:54.521 direct evidence, because obviously when we're looking longer term, that 0:25:54.600 --> 0:25:56.001 takes longer to get. 0:25:55.880 --> 0:26:00.481 Absolutely, it would be wonderful because the amount of autoimmune 0:26:00.481 --> 0:26:04.360 conditions that are just spiking, it's phenomenal. And look, I 0:26:04.400 --> 0:26:06.720 have my own ideas about that. I do think our 0:26:06.880 --> 0:26:10.881 stressful life and not caring for ourselves impacts a lot 0:26:10.921 --> 0:26:14.521 of that, But that's not science backed. That's just from 0:26:14.561 --> 0:26:18.881 me talking to lots of people. It's interesting. A colleague 0:26:18.921 --> 0:26:24.521 of mine is a specialist in a emergency department and 0:26:25.041 --> 0:26:28.480 we were chatting the other week and he was quite surprised. 0:26:28.521 --> 0:26:31.080 We just got chatting about different things that are presenting 0:26:31.201 --> 0:26:35.200 at the adults emergency and he was saying that he 0:26:35.321 --> 0:26:41.480 just can't get over autoimmune conditions, heart attacks, strokes, weird cancers, 0:26:42.521 --> 0:26:46.561 brain tumors. He said, they're seeing things they've never seen before, 0:26:46.600 --> 0:26:51.280 presenting in much younger demographics. And I said, Demma, what 0:26:51.400 --> 0:26:53.921 do you think and he goes, I definitely think it's stress, 0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:56.321 he said. I think it's our phones attached to our 0:26:56.360 --> 0:26:58.600 ears all the time. People have the phone on their wrist, 0:26:59.241 --> 0:27:02.681 there's never any downtime. And it sort of made me think, 0:27:02.721 --> 0:27:06.680 you know, I think all of this impacts the gut 0:27:06.880 --> 0:27:09.360 and impacts the brain. I just don't know if we're 0:27:09.360 --> 0:27:12.600 feeding our bodies the right things to also be coping 0:27:12.640 --> 0:27:15.080 with all of this stress, because I know if I 0:27:15.160 --> 0:27:18.600 eat a good, healthy meal, look after myself properly, I 0:27:18.681 --> 0:27:21.961 feel far better than if I eat fast food. 0:27:22.321 --> 0:27:23.160 Do you agree with that? 0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:28.521 Do you think food, the mind, stress all plays a 0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:33.801 role in autoimmune conditions, in cancers, in tumors. I'm asking 0:27:33.880 --> 0:27:38.160 not scientifically, I suppose just your personal belief. It's really 0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:41.160 hard for me to separate personal tiberance. But we know 0:27:41.201 --> 0:27:44.360 that the gut and the brain are connected in both directions, 0:27:44.400 --> 0:27:47.281 and so what goes on in our brain affects our gut. 0:27:47.360 --> 0:27:50.161 What goes in our gut affects our brain, What goes 0:27:50.160 --> 0:27:53.441 on in our gut affects everything in our body. If 0:27:53.481 --> 0:27:55.840 I was to pick the organ system that has the 0:27:55.880 --> 0:28:00.160 biggest impact on health, it's always the gut. Knowing that 0:28:00.201 --> 0:28:03.080 we live in this environment that, as you said, is 0:28:03.160 --> 0:28:07.160 quite technological, it's quite hectic, there is a lot of 0:28:07.201 --> 0:28:10.360 stress going on. Again goes back to how we can't 0:28:10.360 --> 0:28:12.441 just keep doing what we've always done and keep giving 0:28:12.481 --> 0:28:16.600 the advice that we've always given because science is always 0:28:16.681 --> 0:28:20.840 going to be in flux with that change. So keeping 0:28:20.961 --> 0:28:25.561 up with what we can do to optimize responses and 0:28:25.801 --> 0:28:29.601 improve outcomes is always going to be important in nutrition 0:28:29.721 --> 0:28:33.520 and in health sciences generally. But going back to you know, 0:28:33.640 --> 0:28:35.760 stress and the impact of stress on the gut and 0:28:35.801 --> 0:28:39.441 how then that leads to disease, I think this is 0:28:39.761 --> 0:28:42.601 all the more reason of why we want to be 0:28:42.681 --> 0:28:46.401 across the importance of that first thousand days of life. 0:28:46.441 --> 0:28:49.681 So first thousand days of life being from conception to 0:28:49.921 --> 0:28:53.240 two years of age in the child, because that is 0:28:53.281 --> 0:28:57.521 the programming stage, That is the priming stage, and programming 0:28:57.561 --> 0:29:01.161 and priming is going to determine how resilient we are 0:29:01.361 --> 0:29:04.841 to these other stresses and these other exposures, because obviously 0:29:04.921 --> 0:29:09.081 we keep getting exposed to things throughout our life. After formula, 0:29:09.241 --> 0:29:13.200 after breastfeeding, we're transitioning into solids, which brings a whole 0:29:13.241 --> 0:29:15.881 new set of exposures to the gastrointestinal track, brings a 0:29:15.881 --> 0:29:18.361 whole new set of stresses in the brain as well. 0:29:18.841 --> 0:29:23.041 And so no matter what we're doing at whatever life stage, 0:29:23.441 --> 0:29:27.200 getting that foundation right first gives us the best chance 0:29:27.361 --> 0:29:30.321 at those outcomes being what we want them to be later. 0:29:31.241 --> 0:29:33.561 What are the things you do in my research beforehand 0:29:33.561 --> 0:29:36.041 and you brought it up before about the phs stools. 0:29:37.001 --> 0:29:39.081 Why is that so important in bubbers? 0:29:39.721 --> 0:29:42.521 Well, the PHR stool is important for everyone because it's 0:29:42.521 --> 0:29:47.761 an indicator of overall functions. So stool should be slightly acidic, 0:29:47.921 --> 0:29:51.960 so it shouldn't be too basic, it shouldn't be bang 0:29:52.001 --> 0:29:55.561 on neutral, and it shouldn't be very acidic either. So 0:29:56.281 --> 0:29:58.081 like everything in the body, you know how we have 0:29:58.161 --> 0:30:01.361 our pH buffering in blood, and each of our organs 0:30:01.401 --> 0:30:05.001 has their own pH environment, our gastrointestinal environm. 0:30:05.681 --> 0:30:08.721 It's an indicator of its overall health. It's pH. 0:30:09.201 --> 0:30:12.361 And one of the reasons why pH changes with the 0:30:12.401 --> 0:30:16.001 health of that environment is because the good gut bacteria 0:30:16.161 --> 0:30:20.561 are producing short chain fatty acids, so things like acetates 0:30:20.601 --> 0:30:25.481 and propenoates and butyrates, and they're actually the signaling molecules 0:30:25.521 --> 0:30:28.081 that go on to have those knock on effects that 0:30:28.201 --> 0:30:32.161 cause benefits for the immune system and cause benefits for 0:30:32.761 --> 0:30:36.161 the gut wall. So one of the reasons why keeping 0:30:36.161 --> 0:30:40.681 your gut microbiome healthy is improving your health outcomes and 0:30:40.681 --> 0:30:46.561 particularly your immune outcomes, is the gastrointestinal microbiome the bacteria 0:30:46.921 --> 0:30:53.121 produce energy and produce metabolites that actually feed the wall 0:30:53.161 --> 0:30:55.240 of the gut, So you don't need to be a 0:30:55.241 --> 0:30:57.721 scientist to know that a healthy wall of the gut 0:30:57.921 --> 0:31:00.801 is going to improve immune outcomes because it means the 0:31:00.921 --> 0:31:02.921 right things are getting in and the right things are 0:31:02.961 --> 0:31:08.641 being blocked out, having a nice exchange of information between 0:31:08.641 --> 0:31:11.121 the inside and the outside of the body. So the 0:31:11.121 --> 0:31:13.641 store pH is a marker of all that going on 0:31:13.721 --> 0:31:15.281 and working appropriately. 0:31:15.681 --> 0:31:18.641 What age do you recommend for little ones to start 0:31:18.681 --> 0:31:22.481 introducing solids? What is the most beneficial age? 0:31:22.961 --> 0:31:26.641 So from an age point of view, it's around six months. 0:31:26.721 --> 0:31:30.681 There are physiological markers of children being ready in terms 0:31:30.721 --> 0:31:32.480 of being able to hold their head up and the 0:31:32.521 --> 0:31:35.841 way they can move their jaw and those reflexes, but 0:31:35.961 --> 0:31:38.921 six months is key. It's important to remember though we're 0:31:39.041 --> 0:31:42.761 very rarely going bam. We're done with breastfeeding and formula 0:31:42.761 --> 0:31:45.801 feeding and now we're eating solids. It's a transition period 0:31:46.481 --> 0:31:50.441 and that's another place where I think prebiotics are going 0:31:50.481 --> 0:31:54.641 to prove to be important in formulas or coming from 0:31:54.641 --> 0:31:57.921 breast milk, because there are probiotics in breast milk as well. 0:31:58.561 --> 0:32:03.041 Because when we start introducing solids, we start introducing allergens 0:32:03.121 --> 0:32:06.561 and we start introducing pathogen So there's going to be 0:32:06.641 --> 0:32:09.761 bacteria on food, there's going to be bacteria on plates. 0:32:10.281 --> 0:32:10.881 Don't panic. 0:32:10.921 --> 0:32:14.841 I'm not saying they're unclean. There's bacteria everywhere, and those 0:32:14.961 --> 0:32:17.921 meeting the immune system in the most optimal way, which 0:32:17.961 --> 0:32:20.960 is supported by probiotics, is going to help with that 0:32:21.081 --> 0:32:24.121 programming in that stage. So it's a high risk, high 0:32:24.121 --> 0:32:28.321 reward stage when you do start introducing those solids, and 0:32:28.441 --> 0:32:31.881 remembering we get probiotics in our solids as well, and 0:32:31.961 --> 0:32:37.841 so introducing prebiotic rich solids can help support that stage 0:32:37.961 --> 0:32:38.441 as well. 0:32:39.241 --> 0:32:43.001 So you would encourage if your breastfeeding still breastfeed, cut 0:32:43.001 --> 0:32:46.361 it down to two three times day, If you are 0:32:46.441 --> 0:32:49.921 still bottle feeded, continue the bottle feeds, but ad in 0:32:49.961 --> 0:32:53.521 the solids as well and just slowly integrate them and 0:32:53.801 --> 0:32:57.001 just one or two little things each week or if 0:32:57.041 --> 0:32:59.561 the child shows interest. Would that be a fair statement. 0:33:00.321 --> 0:33:04.641 It's definitely a staged approach. It's definitely a transition, not 0:33:05.161 --> 0:33:07.521 hard cut point, and it's going to be different for 0:33:07.561 --> 0:33:09.520 every child. So I think one of the things that 0:33:09.601 --> 0:33:13.881 we do wrong in nutrition generally, but particularly in early 0:33:13.961 --> 0:33:17.720 childhood nutrition is. We make a lot of comparisons about 0:33:17.801 --> 0:33:22.240 behaviors and stages and speeds and ways of doing things, 0:33:22.761 --> 0:33:26.240 and there's lots of ways to get to the same endpoint, 0:33:26.361 --> 0:33:30.000 and each of us is a very unique, very wonderful individual, 0:33:30.041 --> 0:33:32.041 and that goes for our kids as well. 0:33:32.281 --> 0:33:36.321 I'm a little bit interested in the gut brain, how 0:33:36.361 --> 0:33:40.960 it works together, and the impact that food has on mood. 0:33:41.441 --> 0:33:43.440 Could you explain a little bit more about that. 0:33:44.201 --> 0:33:45.481 It's complicated. 0:33:45.681 --> 0:33:47.801 All of those things that I was talking about before, 0:33:47.881 --> 0:33:49.841 in terms of the short chain fatty acids and the 0:33:49.881 --> 0:33:55.361 signaling molecules and the immune system itself are all going 0:33:55.361 --> 0:33:57.921 to have knock on effects to what goes on in 0:33:57.921 --> 0:34:01.921 the brain, because the hormones that affect the gut affect 0:34:01.921 --> 0:34:04.760 the brain. The hormones that affect the brain affect the 0:34:04.801 --> 0:34:08.681 gut much and so knowing the beginning point in these 0:34:08.721 --> 0:34:12.520 cycles is often quite difficult because if there's something going 0:34:12.601 --> 0:34:15.281 on in the brain that can have consequences for digestion 0:34:15.361 --> 0:34:20.281 and absorption and gastrointestinal microbioda. But if there's things going 0:34:20.281 --> 0:34:22.361 on in any of those places as well, that will 0:34:22.401 --> 0:34:26.801 have knock on effects for the brain and mood and 0:34:27.321 --> 0:34:30.761 hunger and mental health and all of those things. So 0:34:30.881 --> 0:34:35.001 the complexity of those signaling molecules and the nerves that 0:34:35.201 --> 0:34:38.961 run from the gut to the brain and vice versa, 0:34:39.121 --> 0:34:42.761 the complexity of those is it's really hard to come 0:34:42.841 --> 0:34:47.561 up with definitive answers about do this get that result 0:34:47.761 --> 0:34:50.801 or this one thing causes this other thing. And so 0:34:50.841 --> 0:34:54.241 I think it's important when we're looking at this evidence 0:34:54.321 --> 0:34:57.441 to take a step back and say, well, from a 0:34:57.441 --> 0:35:00.721 holistic point of view, based on the evidence, what are 0:35:00.721 --> 0:35:04.121 the best decisions we can make? And that's where you 0:35:04.201 --> 0:35:08.241 come back to the evidence for nurturing that gastro intestinal 0:35:08.281 --> 0:35:13.121 tract and nurturing that gastro intestinal microbiome through adding the 0:35:13.121 --> 0:35:17.001 probiotics when necessary, but adding the probiotics so that they 0:35:17.081 --> 0:35:19.081 have something to eat and they can be nourished in 0:35:19.121 --> 0:35:20.801 the same way that our bodies are nourished. 0:35:21.401 --> 0:35:23.921 So if we aim to do this in that first 0:35:24.281 --> 0:35:29.521 thousand days of life, we are setting our children up 0:35:29.841 --> 0:35:33.281 to try and optimize their health moving forward. 0:35:33.761 --> 0:35:35.041 Is that a correct assumption. 0:35:35.721 --> 0:35:38.641 Yeah, it's about laying the foundation. This is not a 0:35:38.721 --> 0:35:42.121 journey that ever ends. We do need to keep eating 0:35:42.241 --> 0:35:45.601 well throughout our lives to help reduce our risk of 0:35:45.761 --> 0:35:49.281 disease and to protect ourselves and to optimize those health 0:35:49.281 --> 0:35:52.681 and wellbeing outcomes. But if you think about it as 0:35:53.161 --> 0:35:56.601 you want to give your child the best jumping off point, 0:35:56.761 --> 0:36:01.161 because that means it's less effort later, it's less of 0:36:01.481 --> 0:36:05.361 a barrier to overcome, and so getting that program being 0:36:05.721 --> 0:36:09.681 supported early it's a no brainer. It doesn't mean if 0:36:09.681 --> 0:36:13.440 you've missed that window, it's over. It means that if 0:36:13.481 --> 0:36:17.881 you can optimize that window, you improve chances and outcomes 0:36:17.921 --> 0:36:20.081 later and there's less work to catch back up. 0:36:20.841 --> 0:36:23.641 So it is very important in the scheme of things. 0:36:23.721 --> 0:36:28.041 The research is now showing those first thousand days after 0:36:28.081 --> 0:36:32.281 a bubba is born food wise is really important to 0:36:32.441 --> 0:36:34.761 try and set them up with as many probiotics and 0:36:35.121 --> 0:36:37.721 prebiotics to feed the probiotics. 0:36:38.321 --> 0:36:41.521 Is that right? That would be a fair assumption. 0:36:43.041 --> 0:36:47.801 Yeah, Like obviously there are entire societies and entire schools 0:36:47.841 --> 0:36:50.881 of research that are dedicated to this first thousand days. 0:36:51.881 --> 0:36:54.521 I don't think we want to be as overstated in 0:36:54.601 --> 0:36:58.561 saying as many as possible, because it's about having the 0:36:58.641 --> 0:37:01.841 right ratios and the right amounts. So it's not like 0:37:01.921 --> 0:37:05.401 you need to add a probiotic formula and then find 0:37:05.481 --> 0:37:10.441 extra ways to gm probiotics into your children. The formulas 0:37:10.441 --> 0:37:14.401 are optimized to have the correct ratio, so if you 0:37:14.521 --> 0:37:17.441 start adding too many probiotics, then you're going to be 0:37:17.481 --> 0:37:20.241 displacing other things that you want to be getting in. So, 0:37:20.641 --> 0:37:23.601 like everything in nutrition, it's not more is better, it's 0:37:23.641 --> 0:37:26.561 about having those right ratios. And the research around these 0:37:26.601 --> 0:37:29.721 probiotics in formulas, the most evidence is around the goss 0:37:29.721 --> 0:37:32.081 and the foss that we talked about earlier, and a 0:37:32.241 --> 0:37:35.881 nine to one ratio of those, and there's an optimal 0:37:35.921 --> 0:37:38.001 amount to be adding because we don't obviously want to 0:37:38.001 --> 0:37:42.321 be displacing the carbohydrates and the fats and all those 0:37:42.321 --> 0:37:45.121 other great things that are in formula that nourishes baby 0:37:45.121 --> 0:37:46.921 from a building blocks point of view, we don't want 0:37:46.961 --> 0:37:48.681 to displace those with probiotics. 0:37:49.121 --> 0:37:51.961 After one of those shows on Netflix, and that was 0:37:52.001 --> 0:37:55.681 saying to get the best gut health and probiotics and probotics, 0:37:55.681 --> 0:37:58.761 you should be eating from this fast variety of food 0:37:58.801 --> 0:38:07.161 in a week and something like sixty different nuts, seeds, greens, reds. Anyway, 0:38:07.681 --> 0:38:09.921 I gave it a bit of a crack. I swear 0:38:09.961 --> 0:38:12.321 to god, I was flat out and doing twenty cost 0:38:12.361 --> 0:38:13.161 me a fortune. 0:38:14.201 --> 0:38:18.601 It tasted like crap. I was like, I can't do this. 0:38:19.641 --> 0:38:22.401 That's why I think, you know, the formula side of 0:38:22.441 --> 0:38:26.721 thing is fantastic, And if you can use a product 0:38:26.881 --> 0:38:31.681 that has that already scientifically proven amount and it's been 0:38:31.801 --> 0:38:34.481 added in the correct way into a formula, is a 0:38:34.521 --> 0:38:37.441 really great option. And don't do it like me where 0:38:37.641 --> 0:38:40.641 I lasted two weeks and my bank balance took a 0:38:40.681 --> 0:38:44.521 hit end I couldn't afford the brazil nuts anymore. It's 0:38:44.601 --> 0:38:47.841 crazy and I got sucked into trying that. Don't get 0:38:47.881 --> 0:38:49.401 me wrong, I get sucked into a lot of things. 0:38:49.401 --> 0:38:53.321 But if I have a healthcare background and I thought 0:38:53.361 --> 0:38:56.641 it would be worthwhile trying twenty thirty forty fifty different 0:38:56.881 --> 0:39:02.000 fruits veggies, imagine how complex and confusing it must be 0:39:02.761 --> 0:39:05.881 for someone that doesn't have that health background. I mean, 0:39:06.041 --> 0:39:09.681 they must find it exceptionally confusing trying to work out 0:39:09.721 --> 0:39:12.881 what is best for their family for themselves. 0:39:13.761 --> 0:39:14.761 And so this is hard. 0:39:14.801 --> 0:39:17.201 When we hear things in the world about what we 0:39:17.281 --> 0:39:19.601 should eat and then trying to translate that in our 0:39:19.601 --> 0:39:23.201 brains about what are the best decisions for our children 0:39:23.801 --> 0:39:25.801 is quite difficult, So I think it's a couple of things. 0:39:26.001 --> 0:39:29.641 Is the recommendation for that variety comes from the fact 0:39:29.641 --> 0:39:33.641 that different things can act as prebiotics, and plants make 0:39:33.761 --> 0:39:38.001 these things as part of plants protecting themselves from stresses. 0:39:38.641 --> 0:39:42.081 So if we spread our variety, we get more types 0:39:42.401 --> 0:39:47.321 of these things which could have functional benefits. But when 0:39:47.361 --> 0:39:51.041 that target feels impossible, then we can start feeling like 0:39:51.561 --> 0:39:54.841 we're failing and that this is too difficult, and that 0:39:54.881 --> 0:39:57.561 can cause us to go, well, let's not do this 0:39:57.841 --> 0:40:00.641 at all. And so I would definitely say those when 0:40:00.681 --> 0:40:03.601 we talk about variety targets, those are arbitrary numbers, they're 0:40:03.601 --> 0:40:06.881 not rules. But then when we translate that into the 0:40:06.961 --> 0:40:10.681 data that we have for the infant formulas, the important 0:40:10.681 --> 0:40:13.641 thing to remember is in breast milk there is a 0:40:13.681 --> 0:40:17.361 whole bunch of naturally produced prebiotics that will be there. 0:40:18.001 --> 0:40:22.441 It probably isn't possible with the science yet to mimic 0:40:22.521 --> 0:40:27.561 that fully in the formula from a structural point of view, 0:40:27.601 --> 0:40:30.801 but what the research looks to do is to mimic 0:40:30.841 --> 0:40:33.081 that in a functional point of view. 0:40:33.681 --> 0:40:36.161 And so when the goss and the foss. 0:40:35.921 --> 0:40:39.561 When the galactoligosachrides and the fructologosachriides are added in that 0:40:39.681 --> 0:40:43.281 nine to one ratio. That's what we're getting as close 0:40:43.521 --> 0:40:47.881 to the functional benefits as we can with the science 0:40:47.961 --> 0:40:48.401 so far. 0:40:48.841 --> 0:40:49.440 So it's not. 0:40:49.361 --> 0:40:52.081 Necessarily about having all the things, it's about how do 0:40:52.121 --> 0:40:55.601 we get those functional benefits, possibly in a different way, 0:40:55.681 --> 0:40:59.721 because in nutrition there's always more than one pathway to 0:40:59.961 --> 0:41:01.001 the same outcome. 0:41:01.761 --> 0:41:04.481 What if mum has a really poor diet and is 0:41:04.521 --> 0:41:06.521 breastfeed what happens. 0:41:06.121 --> 0:41:11.161 Then The quality of breast milk depends on mum's diet, 0:41:11.841 --> 0:41:16.361 so that is really important. But also creating breast milk 0:41:16.441 --> 0:41:20.161 that is of quality is a priority in mum's body. 0:41:20.481 --> 0:41:24.721 And so if mom isn't looking after her diet, she 0:41:24.801 --> 0:41:28.801 could be sacrificing her health outcomes in later life, things 0:41:28.841 --> 0:41:31.721 like bone health, for example, for the health of her 0:41:31.881 --> 0:41:35.801 child now. So definitely, it's like on the planes when 0:41:35.801 --> 0:41:37.881 they say you need to put your mask on first 0:41:37.921 --> 0:41:40.681 before helping infants. In children, you do need to be 0:41:40.721 --> 0:41:44.681 looking after yourself in parenting, not just when you're breastfeeding, 0:41:44.921 --> 0:41:47.161 but parents do need to be looking after themselves as 0:41:47.201 --> 0:41:50.081 well so that they can be looking after their children. 0:41:50.161 --> 0:41:52.881 And that's also about role modeling, Yeah, because we don't 0:41:52.921 --> 0:41:55.960 want kids to be growing up seeing that mum doesn't eat, 0:41:56.121 --> 0:41:58.681 or mum only eats once the kids are eaten and 0:41:58.721 --> 0:42:01.161 eats the leftovers off their plates, or those kinds of things. 0:42:01.241 --> 0:42:04.201 That's not setting up good cycles of role modeling for 0:42:04.281 --> 0:42:05.281 children in the future. 0:42:06.201 --> 0:42:10.001 And this is coming a little bit off baby topic, 0:42:10.441 --> 0:42:13.961 but it is something that I'm interested in as a 0:42:14.001 --> 0:42:18.561 lot of my clients have had gastric bypass surgery or 0:42:18.801 --> 0:42:22.201 the sleeve. Now I know this isn't your specialty, but 0:42:22.321 --> 0:42:26.521 in my mind, particularly gastric bypass where it bypasses the 0:42:26.561 --> 0:42:32.441 gut altogether, how much of the good pre and probiotics 0:42:32.481 --> 0:42:37.361 are actually work in the gart compared to the intestine. 0:42:37.921 --> 0:42:39.801 Is that going to be a huge issue you think 0:42:39.841 --> 0:42:40.561 down the track. 0:42:41.281 --> 0:42:45.881 So I think this is an example of it depends. Unfortunately, 0:42:46.001 --> 0:42:49.001 the answer is almost always it depends in nutrition. So 0:42:49.161 --> 0:42:53.721 when we have banding or bypass, we're skipping the top 0:42:53.761 --> 0:42:57.000 part of the gastro intestinal tract and we've still got 0:42:57.001 --> 0:42:59.921 the function in the lower part of the gastro intestinal tract. 0:43:00.521 --> 0:43:05.441 So there's some studies that will show benefits for gut 0:43:05.481 --> 0:43:09.641 health post those kinds of interventions, and there's others that 0:43:09.681 --> 0:43:14.601 will show harms to gastrointestinal health that comes post those interventions, 0:43:14.721 --> 0:43:19.041 and that's probably down to what is the nutrition like 0:43:19.081 --> 0:43:22.321 and what is the care like post intervention, because like anything, 0:43:22.481 --> 0:43:25.961 just doing the intervention is one thing, and then it's 0:43:26.241 --> 0:43:30.481 how do we maintain and support the body in the 0:43:30.521 --> 0:43:32.361 best way post that. 0:43:32.881 --> 0:43:33.881 If you have an. 0:43:33.801 --> 0:43:36.761 Intervention like a gastric sleeve or a banding or bypass, 0:43:37.561 --> 0:43:40.761 and then you don't change your diet, you're probably not 0:43:40.801 --> 0:43:43.121 going to see any benefits to your gut health, and 0:43:43.201 --> 0:43:45.881 you might see harms to your gut health. But if 0:43:45.881 --> 0:43:48.721 you use that as a jumping off point to improve 0:43:48.881 --> 0:43:53.401 nourishment and keep adding prebiotics and keep adding probiotics and 0:43:53.441 --> 0:43:56.881 not doing the things that will damage gut bacteria, which 0:43:56.921 --> 0:44:01.281 is alcohol and junk food and smoking, then it's very 0:44:01.361 --> 0:44:05.201 likely you'll see a beneficial effect. And so it will 0:44:05.201 --> 0:44:09.001 definitely be different outcomes for different situations, and again it's 0:44:09.041 --> 0:44:11.161 about getting the support to make sure that you can 0:44:11.201 --> 0:44:13.881 do the things that are going to optimize those outcomes. 0:44:14.801 --> 0:44:18.081 With nurses doing shift work, you know, with the largest 0:44:18.121 --> 0:44:21.121 demographic workforce, with women in it, A lot of them 0:44:21.121 --> 0:44:24.441 are mums and working night like I did night duties. 0:44:25.401 --> 0:44:28.521 Sleep How important is sleep with nutrition? 0:44:29.401 --> 0:44:31.001 Sleep's very important with nutrition. 0:44:31.241 --> 0:44:36.081 So sleep is when your body is processing everything that 0:44:36.161 --> 0:44:41.041 you've eaten throughout the day into repair, development, maintenance in 0:44:41.081 --> 0:44:45.281 your body. And sleep is also going to impact hormones, 0:44:45.401 --> 0:44:49.201 it's going to impact gut function, and that's going to 0:44:49.201 --> 0:44:51.681 have a knock on effect for microbiome and all these 0:44:51.721 --> 0:44:54.801 other things that we have been talking about. So sleep 0:44:54.881 --> 0:44:59.481 is definitely important. But that said, some people are in 0:44:59.561 --> 0:45:03.561 situations where they're sleep will be disrupted because of night shifts, 0:45:03.641 --> 0:45:07.681 because of crying baby, because of other care as responsibilities, 0:45:08.361 --> 0:45:11.921 and so knowing that that will have an impact and 0:45:11.961 --> 0:45:15.441 that we do want to optimize those outcomes through sleep 0:45:15.521 --> 0:45:19.481 where possible, But knowing that even in the context of 0:45:19.801 --> 0:45:23.081 poor sleep or disrupted sleep or shift work, you can 0:45:23.121 --> 0:45:27.121 still make the best choices to support your health. So, 0:45:27.321 --> 0:45:31.281 knowing that people will have different pressures and different risks 0:45:31.361 --> 0:45:35.601 because of those sleep related challenges, we want to fix 0:45:35.681 --> 0:45:38.401 those challenges first if we can, but we still want 0:45:38.401 --> 0:45:40.561 to make the best decisions possible on top of that 0:45:40.801 --> 0:45:44.081 in that context, because like we said, right at the beginning. 0:45:44.441 --> 0:45:45.521 Perfection is not a thing. 0:45:45.761 --> 0:45:48.480 We're never all going to be in the situation where 0:45:48.561 --> 0:45:51.201 we're all getting the perfect amount of sleep and eating 0:45:51.201 --> 0:45:53.721 the perfect amount of things and living the perfect lives, 0:45:54.121 --> 0:45:57.281 And so what decisions can we make? And if you're 0:45:57.321 --> 0:46:01.241 not sleeping well, making those decisions can feel harder. So 0:46:01.321 --> 0:46:03.761 this isn't going to be a one size fits all approach. 0:46:03.801 --> 0:46:05.681 It's not going to be a if we all put 0:46:05.721 --> 0:46:07.281 in the same amount of effort, we all get the 0:46:07.321 --> 0:46:10.641 same outcomes. This will be different for all of us, 0:46:10.761 --> 0:46:13.681 and we can walk those journeys with kindness for ourselves 0:46:13.681 --> 0:46:14.721 and kindness. 0:46:14.281 --> 0:46:16.081 For each other. That is so true. 0:46:16.161 --> 0:46:19.921 If you are a family member that has a child 0:46:19.961 --> 0:46:25.161 that doesn't sleep, how does that impact the child gut wise? 0:46:25.481 --> 0:46:28.201 If they're just like my son did not sleep for 0:46:28.201 --> 0:46:31.201 three years. We were flat out having him have an 0:46:31.281 --> 0:46:35.001 hour in one go. He was a nightmare and by 0:46:35.041 --> 0:46:37.761 the end of three years, I was a basket case. 0:46:38.401 --> 0:46:43.681 Decided not to have any more children. But what would 0:46:43.681 --> 0:46:47.561 have the impact been on him and his gut health? 0:46:47.561 --> 0:46:49.641 Because they never found out what was wrong. They thought 0:46:49.641 --> 0:46:51.521 it might have been silent reflux. He was in that 0:46:51.681 --> 0:46:56.440 hospital fed with a tube. It was very complex and 0:46:56.681 --> 0:46:58.321 no one could ever give us an answer. 0:46:58.681 --> 0:46:59.561 Even to this day. 0:46:59.601 --> 0:47:02.641 He's funny with certain foods that could have had a 0:47:02.801 --> 0:47:07.241 huge impact on his gut health and his immunity. And 0:47:07.721 --> 0:47:10.241 is that a correct assumption, do you think, Emma. 0:47:11.001 --> 0:47:11.921 So it's hard to say. 0:47:12.041 --> 0:47:14.841 I don't think we've got the data on sleep and 0:47:14.881 --> 0:47:18.361 stress and those kinds of things in children. It's been 0:47:18.441 --> 0:47:22.361 studied well in adults, but obviously, for ethical reasons and 0:47:22.561 --> 0:47:26.161 practical reasons, that's a lot harder to study in children. 0:47:27.241 --> 0:47:29.081 I think one of the really important things to remember, 0:47:29.321 --> 0:47:31.601 and we've talked a lot about doing our best and 0:47:31.641 --> 0:47:34.721 optimizing and giving the best jumping off point, but the 0:47:34.841 --> 0:47:40.281 human body is a very complex and robust organism. Even 0:47:40.441 --> 0:47:44.361 if we've missed a window, or even if we've had 0:47:44.361 --> 0:47:47.881 a window disrupted by ill health or by whatever else, 0:47:48.801 --> 0:47:51.761 that doesn't mean we need to beat ourselves up about 0:47:51.761 --> 0:47:56.441 the fact that those things happen. And from each decision 0:47:56.521 --> 0:47:59.801 making point, we can just strive to make the best 0:47:59.841 --> 0:48:03.001 decision based on the best evidence in the circumstances we 0:48:03.081 --> 0:48:07.521 find ourselves in, even though from a scientific point of view, 0:48:07.721 --> 0:48:12.441 unpicking what that means, what the consequences are can feel important. 0:48:13.121 --> 0:48:16.281 It's important not to let those circumstances get in the 0:48:16.321 --> 0:48:20.201 way of making your next best decision in the next 0:48:20.201 --> 0:48:22.761 decision making moment. I think that's what happens when it 0:48:22.801 --> 0:48:25.521 comes down to, you know, the breast is best conversation. 0:48:26.281 --> 0:48:28.401 We can't let that get in the way of making 0:48:28.401 --> 0:48:32.361 the next decision when that's not possible for whatever reason, 0:48:32.441 --> 0:48:35.881 whether it's work, whether it's biological function, whether it's adoption, 0:48:36.161 --> 0:48:38.961 whatever it is. We can't let that history get in 0:48:38.961 --> 0:48:42.801 the way of decision making moving forward, because that's just 0:48:42.881 --> 0:48:46.361 being a slave to history rather than being optimistic and 0:48:46.441 --> 0:48:47.681 being prepared for the future. 0:48:48.201 --> 0:48:50.761 I think we've come a long long way because when 0:48:50.801 --> 0:48:53.401 I was talking to my mum about this, I was 0:48:53.761 --> 0:48:54.521 not breastfed. 0:48:55.081 --> 0:48:57.761 I was fed carnation milk. That's what they did. 0:48:58.281 --> 0:49:05.961 And I'm don't tell anyone like fifty four ish. 0:49:03.481 --> 0:49:04.401 But that's what they had. 0:49:05.161 --> 0:49:08.601 Just didn't have other things, certainly not saying it was 0:49:08.721 --> 0:49:11.081 the best, but it was the best that they knew 0:49:11.161 --> 0:49:13.241 at that time, so they just did the best they could. 0:49:13.961 --> 0:49:17.841 And it was a bit frowned upon back then to breastfeed, 0:49:17.881 --> 0:49:20.521 and I don't know why it was probably how no 0:49:20.601 --> 0:49:21.601 one wanted to see breast. 0:49:21.681 --> 0:49:23.881 It was rude. I don't know, and then. 0:49:23.801 --> 0:49:27.001 It has evolved and evolved, and then when I had 0:49:27.121 --> 0:49:29.761 my kids, it was certainly breast is best. You do 0:49:29.801 --> 0:49:32.161 your best, and then when that doesn't happen, then you 0:49:32.241 --> 0:49:36.401 go down other pathways, which is still current. It's just 0:49:36.441 --> 0:49:40.321 that there's more current evidence around if you can't breastfeed, 0:49:40.921 --> 0:49:46.201 that there are some better choices in formulas, and it's 0:49:46.281 --> 0:49:50.561 just important to have that knowledge around what those decisions are. 0:49:51.561 --> 0:49:55.161 So when I was reading the information around the prebiotics 0:49:55.201 --> 0:49:56.881 and the big names, and I had to look in 0:49:57.081 --> 0:49:58.521 the chemist and had to look at some of the 0:49:58.641 --> 0:50:01.801 tins and things like that, it was very interesting when 0:50:01.801 --> 0:50:06.241 I interviewed doctor Elizabeth and she said, there's little information 0:50:07.481 --> 0:50:10.401 out there for parents to look at how to actually 0:50:10.721 --> 0:50:15.401 bottle feed appropriately. So like me, a lot of people 0:50:15.401 --> 0:50:19.441 are just going off the tin, Whereas now you have 0:50:19.521 --> 0:50:24.681 helped work on this website, this information line for people 0:50:24.721 --> 0:50:29.841 to have some really great evidence based information on how 0:50:29.881 --> 0:50:33.641 to feed a little one that might be doing mixed 0:50:33.641 --> 0:50:37.041 feeding might be bottled only due to whatever reason. And 0:50:37.081 --> 0:50:40.641 I think that is such a fantastic thing for healthcare 0:50:40.681 --> 0:50:43.121 professionals to be able to recommend. 0:50:44.161 --> 0:50:46.681 It feels to me like this is way overdue. 0:50:47.361 --> 0:50:51.041 And I think it comes down to sometimes in nutrition 0:50:51.161 --> 0:50:55.201 we're making decisions for survival, and that sounds like you're 0:50:55.241 --> 0:50:58.401 on the carnation milk. My mum was bottle fed as well. 0:50:58.441 --> 0:51:01.001 She was adopted at a very young age. She then 0:51:01.121 --> 0:51:05.641 managed to breastfeed. I think nine of the ten siblings 0:51:05.681 --> 0:51:08.161 that I have, the premes needed to be fed from 0:51:08.161 --> 0:51:10.281 a milk bank, but the rest of them she breastfed. 0:51:10.881 --> 0:51:14.081 And so sometimes we're making those decisions for survival, but 0:51:14.361 --> 0:51:17.401 sometimes we're in a position where we can make those 0:51:17.401 --> 0:51:21.241 decisions for thriving. And I think that's where looking for 0:51:22.121 --> 0:51:25.441 the right formula and in this case specifically the ones 0:51:25.481 --> 0:51:28.361 that have the goss and the foss those prebiotics added, 0:51:28.601 --> 0:51:32.361 that's a decision for thriving that sets bub up for 0:51:32.881 --> 0:51:36.281 fewer challenges in the rest of their life. And so, 0:51:36.481 --> 0:51:38.521 you know, whatever that jumping off point is, we can 0:51:38.561 --> 0:51:42.361 start making those decisions, hopefully in that thriving sense, and 0:51:42.441 --> 0:51:45.081 less of them in the survival sense as we move 0:51:45.121 --> 0:51:47.961 forward with that better science and with that less stigma 0:51:48.361 --> 0:51:53.001 that by not having those conversations around the choices. We 0:51:53.081 --> 0:51:55.961 are leaving it up to people to make their own decisions. 0:51:56.281 --> 0:51:59.521 It's either perfect or figure it out yourself. And we 0:51:59.601 --> 0:52:02.321 can definitely do better in having those conversations in the 0:52:02.321 --> 0:52:04.161 middle ground and the other options as well. 0:52:05.321 --> 0:52:05.641 Ground. 0:52:05.761 --> 0:52:10.441 Isn't it supporting whatever your choice is and disseminating the 0:52:10.521 --> 0:52:15.440 correct information that is evidence based, that is researched, so 0:52:15.481 --> 0:52:18.961 that we can set those bubbies up for life to 0:52:19.161 --> 0:52:22.921 thrive and also set the parents up. There's nothing better 0:52:23.681 --> 0:52:29.201 as a parent than seeing your little one happy, smiling, thriving, eating, 0:52:29.641 --> 0:52:32.721 being fed and happy in that milk drunk sort of situation. 0:52:33.321 --> 0:52:36.521 It's one of the most beautiful moments as a parent 0:52:36.601 --> 0:52:41.361 because you feel accomplished. And whether that be from breast 0:52:41.641 --> 0:52:44.201 milk or from a bottle, there is just nothing better 0:52:44.241 --> 0:52:47.041 to see a little baby so satisfied that they just 0:52:47.281 --> 0:52:51.841 pass out from being fed. But I just think that 0:52:52.201 --> 0:52:56.201 we as healthcare professionals really need to support the families 0:52:56.281 --> 0:53:01.041 in our care and not be judgmental. Everyone is doing 0:53:01.041 --> 0:53:04.521 the best they can and sometimes they don't know what's better, 0:53:05.161 --> 0:53:09.081 and maybe we in a very kind and considerate way 0:53:09.161 --> 0:53:12.121 to seminate that information or point them in the right direction, 0:53:12.241 --> 0:53:15.601 where really smart people like doctor Emma have worked really 0:53:15.641 --> 0:53:18.921 hard with research to work out what is best for 0:53:19.001 --> 0:53:22.761 bubbs in the first thousand days. Why wouldn't we just 0:53:22.881 --> 0:53:25.681 jump on that and share that information and go to 0:53:25.721 --> 0:53:29.121 that website and tell our colleagues about it, and tell 0:53:29.121 --> 0:53:32.441 our midwives about it and just support each other. I 0:53:32.441 --> 0:53:35.441 think that's the best thing we can do as healthcare practitioners, because, 0:53:35.521 --> 0:53:37.321 oh my god, it is tough out there. 0:53:38.041 --> 0:53:40.761 I think that is a really beautiful way of putting it, 0:53:40.841 --> 0:53:44.161 because yes, there's science for this, but there's also all 0:53:44.241 --> 0:53:47.121 the stressful and negative emotions that can be attached to 0:53:47.161 --> 0:53:49.801 this as well. So being able to balance the science 0:53:49.881 --> 0:53:52.521 and the society and the parent and bob needs, I 0:53:52.521 --> 0:53:56.041 think is a really powerful and empowering space to be 0:53:56.161 --> 0:53:58.440 and so glad to have been a small part of it. 0:53:58.881 --> 0:54:02.361 Thank you so much, doctor Emma. I am in awe 0:54:03.001 --> 0:54:06.201 of your skill set and your skin. 0:54:09.401 --> 0:54:10.081 I swear to God. 0:54:10.241 --> 0:54:13.521 If that's pre and probiotics, I'm getting onto them. Doctor 0:54:13.561 --> 0:54:15.721 Emma has the most amazing skin, and as you guys know, 0:54:15.801 --> 0:54:18.961 dermatology is my specialty, so I've been sitting and. 0:54:18.881 --> 0:54:21.161 Looking at it in all it is flawless. 0:54:21.641 --> 0:54:24.681 So if ever there is a really great reason to 0:54:24.761 --> 0:54:28.281 have a good diet and pre and probiotics, just have 0:54:28.281 --> 0:54:29.121 a look at your skin. 0:54:29.361 --> 0:54:32.561 Amazing skin is a great way to get people interested 0:54:32.561 --> 0:54:36.281 in nutrition because it's very hard to imagine cardiovascular disease 0:54:36.321 --> 0:54:39.641 outcomes and bone outcomes in your eighties. But you can 0:54:39.641 --> 0:54:42.201 see your skin as well, and what you see on 0:54:42.241 --> 0:54:44.361 the outside is often a reflection of what's going on 0:54:44.361 --> 0:54:45.121 on the inside. 0:54:45.201 --> 0:54:48.841 Well, your skin looks remarkable. Thank you so much for 0:54:48.881 --> 0:54:52.561 taking the time to chat. It's such a huge topic. 0:54:52.961 --> 0:54:56.281 Like it's a huge topic and very on point at 0:54:56.281 --> 0:54:59.001 the moment because people really are wanting to do the 0:54:59.041 --> 0:55:01.961 best for their loved ones. So thank you so much 0:55:02.001 --> 0:55:04.041 for the research you do, for the work you do, 0:55:04.241 --> 0:55:06.881 and also for working so hard on getting an amazing 0:55:07.561 --> 0:55:10.961 website for families and healthcare professionals. I can't wait to 0:55:11.001 --> 0:55:13.921 share it, so thank you, Thank. 0:55:13.721 --> 0:55:14.241 You so much. 0:55:14.281 --> 0:55:17.361 I've thoroughly enjoyed the conversation, and all the best conversations 0:55:17.361 --> 0:55:19.761 meander you don't know where they're going to go. Well, 0:55:19.921 --> 0:55:21.801 I will say lots of other people have worked on 0:55:21.801 --> 0:55:24.761 this research, in this website, these resources, not just me 0:55:24.881 --> 0:55:27.561 so shout out to the entire team who have brought 0:55:27.561 --> 0:55:29.721 this information together so that it can be practical. 0:55:30.161 --> 0:55:32.721 Thank you guys all so much, and thank you Doctor Emma. 0:55:32.961 --> 0:55:33.440 Thank you. 0:55:37.281 --> 0:55:40.601 This season, I am so excited to announce that the 0:55:40.641 --> 0:55:44.001 podcast is being supported by Nutritia, which is a global 0:55:44.081 --> 0:55:48.321 leader in medical nutrition. They understand the needs of nurses 0:55:48.361 --> 0:55:50.801 in the nutrition space and for over one hundred and 0:55:50.881 --> 0:55:54.441 twenty five years have provided products to support child health. 0:55:54.921 --> 0:55:59.121 Some of Nutritiona's pediatric brands include Neo Kate Junior for 0:55:59.241 --> 0:56:01.881 children who have food allergies, and app to Grow for 0:56:01.921 --> 0:56:04.961 those fussy eaters. And those of us who have children 0:56:05.641 --> 0:56:09.361 know many kids who go through the phases of definite fussiness. 0:56:09.961 --> 0:56:13.881 For more information and resources, visit the NUTRITIONA Pediatrics hub 0:56:14.041 --> 0:56:18.201 at nutritia dot com dot au forward slash pediatrics. I 0:56:18.281 --> 0:56:20.681 just want to say a huge thank you to Nutritia. 0:56:21.121 --> 0:56:24.041 Their desire to support nurses is truly appreciated, and they 0:56:24.041 --> 0:56:27.361 are allowing me to continue this podcast so that we 0:56:27.401 --> 0:56:28.641 can all grow as nurses.