Speaker 1: Appogia production.
Speaker 2: Hi everyone, thank you for tuning back into Tenantus for Nurses.
Speaker 2: I suspec Woodbine here this season. I am so excited
Speaker 2: to announce that the podcast is being supported by Nutritia,
Speaker 2: which is a global leader in medical nutrition. They understand
Speaker 2: the needs of nurses in the nutrition space and for
Speaker 2: over one hundred and twenty five years have provided products
Speaker 2: to support child health. Some of Nutrita's pediatric brands include
Speaker 2: Neo Kate Junior for children who have food allergies and
Speaker 2: app to Grow for those fussy eaters. And those of
Speaker 2: us who have children know many kids who go through
Speaker 2: the phases of definite fussiness. For more information and resources,
Speaker 2: visit the nutritiona Pediatrics hub at nutritia dot com dot
Speaker 2: au forward slash Pediatrics. I just want to say a
Speaker 2: huge thank you to Nutritia. Their desire to support nurses
Speaker 2: is truly appreciated, and they are allowing me to continue
Speaker 2: this podcast so that we can all grow as nurses.
Speaker 2: This season, we have some amazing speakers in the pediatric
Speaker 2: space which I cannot wait to share with you all. Hi,
Speaker 2: my name's Beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for nurses.
Speaker 1: I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity
Speaker 1: to be, so I hit it and parked it for
Speaker 1: Nelly four years. We always have free will, We always
Speaker 1: get to choose. We are autonomous.
Speaker 2: Hi everyone, thank you for tuning back in to Tenderness
Speaker 2: for Nurses. My name's beck Woodbine and I'm a nurse
Speaker 2: practitioner and today we have the fabulous doctor Emma Beckett
Speaker 2: chatting with us, and we're actually talking about immunity in
Speaker 2: the first thousand days of a child's life. We'll be
Speaker 2: touching on a few other bits and pieces along the way,
Speaker 2: but I'm really excited about this conversation. When I speak
Speaker 2: to my clients that have come in or have skin
Speaker 2: issues around because they've just had a barb or about
Speaker 2: to have a barb, and one of the things that's
Speaker 2: always discussed is feeding. It's just one of those things
Speaker 2: that mums always tend to ask other mums, how are
Speaker 2: you feeding?
Speaker 1: You know you're getting some sleep.
Speaker 2: And I think it's a really great conversation to have
Speaker 2: in that we don't judge mums for whatever choices they make.
Speaker 2: We all know that breast is best, but sometimes for
Speaker 2: whatever reasons, whether you have to go back to work,
Speaker 2: Buba isn't feeding well, mum's not making enough milk. There
Speaker 2: could be so many different circumstances that sometimes mums do
Speaker 2: have to make the choice of bottle feeding. And that's
Speaker 2: where the conversation with doctor Emma is coming in, and
Speaker 2: we're going to unpack this a little bit so that
Speaker 2: you all have a little bit more knowledge so that
Speaker 2: we can all be supportive of each other, whether that
Speaker 2: is breastfeeding, which we know is the ultimate choice and
Speaker 2: the one that we should all be going for the
Speaker 2: gold standard, but if you can't, it's all about making
Speaker 2: good decisions for your bubba. So welcome Emma, how are you?
Speaker 2: Hello and wonderful, thank you for having me. So why
Speaker 2: don't you explain a little bit of your background for
Speaker 2: people that are listening today.
Speaker 3: So I'm a food nutrition scientist, biomedical scientist, communicator and educator.
Speaker 3: So I'm a very multifaceted professional and I love that
Speaker 3: because it gives me an opportunity to look at interactions
Speaker 3: and intersections between different sciences. I got interested in immunology
Speaker 3: because I'm a child of two geologists, and geology is
Speaker 3: a very slow science and so when I started my
Speaker 3: BioMed degree, I got very fascinated by the small things
Speaker 3: that happened quickly in the body that you couldn't see.
Speaker 3: Then I moved into nutrition as I got further into
Speaker 3: my career because I realized there's no immunology without nutrition.
Speaker 3: If you're giving vaccines to a malnourished baby, that's not
Speaker 3: going to be very helpful. And so nutrition for me
Speaker 3: was the science that helped everyone. And then I got
Speaker 3: into nutrition communication because I realized my point knowing all
Speaker 3: these things, if we can't share them with people in
Speaker 3: a way that can actually change what they're doing and
Speaker 3: change the world for the better. So I've ended up
Speaker 3: in this messy space where I'm kind of not a
Speaker 3: specialist anymore. I'm a generalist with overlapping specialties. But I
Speaker 3: feel like it's a very powerful space to help people.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's like a nurse practitioner.
Speaker 2: We know a little bit about a lot in our
Speaker 2: specialties that we've segue into. Yes, we know more, but
Speaker 2: we know a little bit about a lot. Some thing's
Speaker 2: a lot about a lot. But that's exactly what the
Speaker 2: space that nurse practitioners did in is where you are currently.
Speaker 3: And the power is sharing it with people, right, which
Speaker 3: is another thing that nurse practitioners specialize in, because the
Speaker 3: information is nothing if we can't get it to people
Speaker 3: in a way that actually works for them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, dissemination is paramount in healthcare.
Speaker 2: I am quite fascinated by you because you add a
Speaker 2: really quirky spin to nutrition to education. Got a huge
Speaker 2: following on social media. Why did it become so paramount
Speaker 2: to you to start sharing this information about immunity and
Speaker 2: immunology and babies.
Speaker 3: Firstly, there's a lot of bad information out there, and
Speaker 3: there's a lot of beautiful people talking stories about inflammation
Speaker 3: that aren't quite correct. They might have kind of a
Speaker 3: root in science that then gets spun into something a
Speaker 3: little bit more confusing. So it's important to be your
Speaker 3: whole self in communication because there's a lot of people
Speaker 3: using a lot of parts of their lives as hooks
Speaker 3: to share non scientific information. But for me, this whole
Speaker 3: story of immunity and particularly early life immunity, if I
Speaker 3: think about my values as a communicator and as a scientist,
Speaker 3: it's very much centered around fairness and that first thousand
Speaker 3: days of life is about programming. It's a out setting
Speaker 3: the scene. It's about laying the foundations. I've always been
Speaker 3: interested in things in my career about how do we
Speaker 3: level that playing field and make sure everyone gets a
Speaker 3: good go or everyone gets the chance to be the
Speaker 3: best version of themselves possible, And so by sharing nutrition
Speaker 3: information in my own way, I hope to be a
Speaker 3: part of doing better in that space.
Speaker 2: I did many years ago a stint at Logan Hospital,
Speaker 2: which back in those days was lower socioeconomic area.
Speaker 1: And I'm not a midwife.
Speaker 2: I was working the operating theaters there but knew some
Speaker 2: of the midwives and I remember them saying some of
Speaker 2: these young girls would come in and they would encourage
Speaker 2: breastfeeding because it was free, but they knew that the
Speaker 2: minute they left the hospital they were going to bottle
Speaker 2: feed these babies.
Speaker 1: I used to.
Speaker 2: Do some lists in the dental area. These mums would
Speaker 2: come in with bottles full of coke, and the baby
Speaker 2: would be in having all their teeth removed like a toddler,
Speaker 2: and then the new bub would be there sitting in
Speaker 2: the prem with the coke, and I really felt we
Speaker 2: let them down and if there had have been products
Speaker 2: or education more strongly around that area, would have they
Speaker 2: continued to be making the same mistakes or is that
Speaker 2: all they knew? And now that we've got social media
Speaker 2: and that ability to disseminate good information, surely we should
Speaker 2: be doing that. But then how do you know what's
Speaker 2: good information and what's not good information?
Speaker 3: I think you've hit on something really important there. In nutrition,
Speaker 3: it's not just what we say, it's what we don't say.
Speaker 3: And if we don't fill the gaps, then people need
Speaker 3: to fill those gaps for themselves. And we spend a
Speaker 3: lot of time talking about what's perfect and what's best,
Speaker 3: and we just hope that people find their way to
Speaker 3: perfect and best and come on that journey with us.
Speaker 3: And that's true in early life nutrition, and that's true
Speaker 3: in adult and childhood and everything else nutrition. So I
Speaker 3: think there's a lot of power in talking about, even
Speaker 3: if it's not perfect, how do we make the best
Speaker 3: of it, and what are our choices that we can
Speaker 3: make that fit within people's circumstances that actually support them
Speaker 3: where they are. So meeting people where they're at, I
Speaker 3: think is a really important thing, not just in nutrition
Speaker 3: but in healthcare generally.
Speaker 2: Couldn't agree with you more so, sometimes you just have
Speaker 2: to assume that someone knows nothing and just break it
Speaker 2: down for them and give it to them in a
Speaker 2: kind manner, of course. But I know when I had
Speaker 2: my son major issues, total refusal to eat in and
Speaker 2: out of hospital, fed with a naser gastric tube, and
Speaker 2: then at the end wouldn't even feed from a bottle. Thankfully,
Speaker 2: I had great people around me, and I was four
Speaker 2: months we were actually starting to feed him food because
Speaker 2: you just total refusal to drink. But what happens if
Speaker 2: people don't have those people around them.
Speaker 3: It's a really good question, because if you don't have
Speaker 3: that support, it's very difficult to know where to get
Speaker 3: that information from. And we often rely on instinct or
Speaker 3: we rely on what people around us are telling us.
Speaker 3: But knowing how quickly medicine changes, how quickly science changes,
Speaker 3: if we're just relying on the kindness of strangers or
Speaker 3: the kindness of family members, we can get left behind
Speaker 3: quite quickly and not be doing what's best in our situation.
Speaker 3: So it is really difficult. And being able to share
Speaker 3: good quality information and get it to people in a
Speaker 3: way that they can use, I think it's so important.
Speaker 2: So you're currently working on a website for healthcare professionals
Speaker 2: to get information about feeding, whether that be mixed feeding
Speaker 2: or bottle feeding. And we know breast is best, and
Speaker 2: we are absolutely two hundred and ten percent promoting that.
Speaker 2: We are just talking in this podcast in relation to
Speaker 2: those families where they might choose mixed feeds or they
Speaker 2: might choose another option such as formula feeding. So we
Speaker 2: are not disparaging breastfeeding. But for those of us who
Speaker 2: have had to go back to work early done some
Speaker 2: mixed feeding, it's good to get that information. And you've
Speaker 2: been working on a website in relation to that, haven't you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the website for health professionals, and we've got
Speaker 3: a fact sheet specifically for nurses that's a guide to
Speaker 3: help in the conversations, because if you're empowered as a professional,
Speaker 3: then you can empower people that you work with. And
Speaker 3: it's about, as you said, not comparing different types of feeding,
Speaker 3: but knowing everything that is in the toolkit so that
Speaker 3: the optimal decisions can be made to support immunity in
Speaker 3: that early life. Because if we lay that foundation right
Speaker 3: early on, then we don't just reduce the risk of
Speaker 3: infection and gastro intestinal upsets and those kinds of things
Speaker 3: that are very important in early life. We're laying a
Speaker 3: foundation for immunity for the rest of our lives as well.
Speaker 3: So knowing that breast is best if formula is required,
Speaker 3: that not all formulas are created equal. They're all going
Speaker 3: to have the basic nutrients that you need. But we
Speaker 3: know now that nutrition is so much more than just
Speaker 3: essentral nutrients. So it's not just about having the building
Speaker 3: blocks to create the things that grow a baby and
Speaker 3: keep that gut healthy and that immune system thriving, but
Speaker 3: it's about the biological signals that are sent. And there's
Speaker 3: different things in different formulas, and particularly bioactive compounds like prebiotics,
Speaker 3: that can change the way those formulas influence the immune system.
Speaker 3: And knowing that selecting a formula that has those prebiotics
Speaker 3: is going to give you that better outcome for immunity
Speaker 3: can help reassure a mum that she is making the
Speaker 3: right decision, because we hear a lot about breast milk
Speaker 3: being important for those immune factors that are communicated from
Speaker 3: the mum to the bub but it's not just the
Speaker 3: direct communication of immune factors that impact the baby's immune system.
Speaker 3: It's also things like prebiotics that are in the milk
Speaker 3: or can be added to the formula as well.
Speaker 2: What is the difference between a prebiotic and a probiotic.
Speaker 3: So probiotics are when we add living bacteria, so the
Speaker 3: bacteria is able to pass through digestion and colonize in
Speaker 3: the gastro intestinal track.
Speaker 1: That's probiotic.
Speaker 3: Probiotic is a step before that because prebiotics feed those bacteria.
Speaker 3: So if you're taking probiotics but you're not getting enough prebiotics,
Speaker 3: you're potentially just throwing those bacteria down there and not
Speaker 3: giving them what they need to survive. Prebiotics aren't digested
Speaker 3: by us, but by the gut bacteria, and particularly the
Speaker 3: good gut bacteria, the ones that producing all the things
Speaker 3: that do stuff like strengthen our gush and help our
Speaker 3: immune system.
Speaker 1: And so the probiotics could.
Speaker 3: Be things like fibers, complex sugars, or they could be
Speaker 3: things like polyphenols, but the key thing is they're good
Speaker 3: bacteria food.
Speaker 2: Probiotics in formulas are they're probiotics or you're looking at
Speaker 2: just the prebiotics.
Speaker 3: So you can add probiotics two formulas as well, and
Speaker 3: you'll often see formulas that have both a probiotic and
Speaker 3: a prebiotic. The bulk of the evidence around improving immunity,
Speaker 3: gut function in early life, reducing risk of infection in
Speaker 3: early life comes from the prebiotics, not from the probiotics.
Speaker 3: So the probiotics specifically is where the data says we're
Speaker 3: seeing this benefit.
Speaker 1: And how does that work if it's food for the bacteria.
Speaker 3: So the bacteria are already seeded in the gastro intestinal tracts.
Speaker 3: So baby is born with some microbiota that comes from mum,
Speaker 3: and it's acquired from all around the environment. If you've
Speaker 3: got a kid, you'll know they'll put anything in their mouth.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: And so the prebiotics are about feeding the good ones
Speaker 3: and maintaining that balance in a beneficial way, as opposed
Speaker 3: to adding things in.
Speaker 2: So let's go back a couple of steps. When you
Speaker 2: are feeding a little one a pre biotic, you're helping
Speaker 2: them avoid infections, colds, coughs, flues, gestros. What the number
Speaker 2: one hospitalization for babies up to what too?
Speaker 1: Would that be?
Speaker 3: Yep? And infection up to three years is the number
Speaker 3: one reason to see.
Speaker 2: A doctor any infection. We're talking respiratory, we're talking guard
Speaker 2: we're talking anything. So if you then do your immunizations
Speaker 2: and you've got these prebiotics on board as well as
Speaker 2: your probiotics, does that mean that uptake of that vaccine
Speaker 2: is going to be better.
Speaker 3: Yes, So it's it's important to remember that if we're
Speaker 3: giving vaccines and we want them to have a good
Speaker 3: immune response to protect the child for later, we need
Speaker 3: that child to be nourished, so they need to have
Speaker 3: all of the basic nutrients. But it's becoming more evident
Speaker 3: that that early life programming is not just about the
Speaker 3: vaccine in and of itself. It's not just about the
Speaker 3: nutrition in and of itself. It's about the signaling that
Speaker 3: occurs at the same time. So all these things are
Speaker 3: interacting with each other, and we know throughout life that
Speaker 3: what happens in the gut has a knock on effect
Speaker 3: to all the other areas in the body, but particularly
Speaker 3: for the immune system because the majority of our immune
Speaker 3: cells are in the gut, and that makes sense because
Speaker 3: that's where the body is exposed to so many things externally,
Speaker 3: and so by making sure that we nurture that in
Speaker 3: early life, we're part of making sure that balance works.
Speaker 3: Because immunity is really tricky. You don't just want to
Speaker 3: go immune response on. You want to go we're responding
Speaker 3: to the right things in immunity, and we're not over
Speaker 3: responding to self or to normal exposures, because that's when
Speaker 3: autoimmune conditions, that's when allergies become a problem.
Speaker 1: So it's this really fine balance.
Speaker 3: And I don't say that to stress people out, as
Speaker 3: in you're going to get it wrong, But it's about
Speaker 3: balancing those responses for ongoing programming. So we want to
Speaker 3: be able not to overreact, we want to react to
Speaker 3: the right things, and we want to support all those
Speaker 3: pathways to work at the same time, rather than just
Speaker 3: focusing on one or the other.
Speaker 1: Let's say you're a new mum.
Speaker 2: You've breastfed for the first month six weeks, but just
Speaker 2: because of financial concerns, you have to go back to
Speaker 2: work and you're working part time, so you've made the
Speaker 2: decision to mixed feed, and but will take the bottle?
Speaker 2: I mean, I know my daughter totally refused the bottom. Also,
Speaker 2: she was breastfeed the whole way through. Bub's taking the bottle.
Speaker 2: The family's got itself sorted. What can you expect to
Speaker 2: see by adding in a bubby formula that's got the
Speaker 2: probiotics in it. Do you do a gentle start, do
Speaker 2: you just go straight in and morning and night breastfeed
Speaker 2: and in between you just do bottle Like how does
Speaker 2: a parent do it? How do you add mixed feeding
Speaker 2: to the regime.
Speaker 3: The introduction is going to depend on the situation for
Speaker 3: the mum and bub We talk about when people are
Speaker 3: introducing probiotics and fibers in adults, we always talk about
Speaker 3: introducing it slowly because once you start feeding the gut bacteria,
Speaker 3: they start fermenting, and fermenting creates gas, and so that
Speaker 3: can be unpleasant when you're adapting.
Speaker 1: But when you're.
Speaker 3: Looking at introducing a probiotic in a formula, it's really
Speaker 3: going to depend on the needs of introducing that for formula,
Speaker 3: and the gastro intestinal environment and the social aspects of
Speaker 3: things like gas are very different when.
Speaker 1: You're a child, absolutely, and so.
Speaker 3: Kids are allowed to have gas on and adults we
Speaker 3: are socially less acceptable. So introducing the formula in a
Speaker 3: way that's needed and having that probiotic there at the
Speaker 3: same time is definitely the priority. So having the probiotic
Speaker 3: is an excellent bonus that I would encourage, but getting
Speaker 3: the formula in so the bubb is fed first is
Speaker 3: obviously the most important step. And I've just realized I
Speaker 3: keep saying prebiotics like as though you know that will
Speaker 3: be written on the tin when you're looking at a formula,
Speaker 3: and it's probably not going to say prebiotics on the
Speaker 3: front of pack. And so what you want to be
Speaker 3: looking for when you're looking for a prebiotic is in
Speaker 3: the ingredients list. The number one performing in the data
Speaker 3: of the probiotics are a combination that's called goss and
Speaker 3: foss so galacto oligosaccharides and fructo oligo sachrides. So those
Speaker 3: are really big words, but they'll be written out in full.
Speaker 3: Galacto oligosacride and fructo oligosachride will be written out in
Speaker 3: the ingredients list of these formulas.
Speaker 1: So that's really what you want to look for, amazing.
Speaker 2: So I will add those to the show notes so
Speaker 2: that if you guys are interested or want to share
Speaker 2: that information, they will be there for you what the
Speaker 2: full name of the prebiotics are, so that it's there
Speaker 2: in black and white for you.
Speaker 1: And I'll get doctor Emma to check it for us,
Speaker 1: the role.
Speaker 2: Of the nurse in educating mums and dads and families
Speaker 2: around good feeding habits.
Speaker 1: When does that start.
Speaker 3: I think the role of the nurse begins immediately, and
Speaker 3: I don't think it ends. I think as one of
Speaker 3: the most trusted professions and one of the most accessible
Speaker 3: healthcare providers, there's a lot of incidental inquiries about these
Speaker 3: kinds of things, dental conversations that happen, and I think
Speaker 3: that's true throughout the entire lifespan, but it matters particularly
Speaker 3: in early life because in early life we are laying
Speaker 3: this foundation, but we're also laying a foundation about these
Speaker 3: conversations and the fantastic role that nurses can play acknowledging
Speaker 3: their scope of practice is not dietetics, it's not nutrition,
Speaker 3: but being able to have kind and clear and empowering
Speaker 3: conversations so that people can access that entire toolkit. It
Speaker 3: helps parents feel supported, it helps baby be nourished, but
Speaker 3: it also reinforces that role of nurses as that caring
Speaker 3: an accessible profession because there's a lot of times where
Speaker 3: people are not comfortable having these conversations because they're afraid
Speaker 3: of being judged, and so if a nurse can have
Speaker 3: these conversations without judgment and with kindness and backed by evidence,
Speaker 3: then that reduces the fear of having these conversations again
Speaker 3: with nurse in the future in a more empowering way.
Speaker 3: So I cannot stress enough how much I think nurses
Speaker 3: can play a really positive role in improving these outcomes
Speaker 3: for babies and their parents.
Speaker 2: Since you have introduced and done research into prebiotic being
Speaker 2: added into formulas, were you able to get a good
Speaker 2: reading of the reduction of hospital visits or do some
Speaker 2: research into that area of the impact it, you'd have.
Speaker 3: So there's data that shows reduction in infection rates, not
Speaker 3: necessarily hospitalizations, not because that doesn't happen, but probably because
Speaker 3: that's not been looked at yet. But there is the
Speaker 3: reduction in infection rates, and there's a lot of data
Speaker 3: for the actual functional changes that we know will have
Speaker 3: a knock on effects. So it's important to remember in
Speaker 3: science we don't always look at the end outcome directly.
Speaker 3: Sometimes we're looking at the different functional and biological markers
Speaker 3: long the way and then putting that together to be
Speaker 3: able to make the recommendation for how things would and
Speaker 3: could fit together. Because obviously that endpoint of infection is
Speaker 3: a very complex one, but there's good data for things
Speaker 3: like increasing good bacteria in the gastro intestinal tract. There's
Speaker 3: good data for increasing the amount of IgA which is produced,
Speaker 3: and that's the globulin is something that we're encouraging breastfeeding
Speaker 3: for so getting that from mum. So that's one of
Speaker 3: the anti bodies that's going to help protect bub against infections.
Speaker 3: And we see improvements in things like staol consistency, stool frequency,
Speaker 3: reductions in pH of the stool, which means we've got
Speaker 3: more of the good metabolites being made by the gut bacteria.
Speaker 3: And so if you put all that together, it makes
Speaker 3: sense that this is going to reduce infection rates and
Speaker 3: then hopefully that has a knock on effect of things
Speaker 3: like hospitalization as well. But obviously we need to keep
Speaker 3: collecting data.
Speaker 1: On those things. And how do you collect the data
Speaker 1: is it through stool samples.
Speaker 3: So there's lots of different ways this research is done.
Speaker 3: It can be through health records, it can be through
Speaker 3: collecting stool samples, which again much easier in kids than
Speaker 3: it is in adults, and obviously looking at the biomarkers,
Speaker 3: looking at things like blood levels and those kinds of
Speaker 3: things as well. So a lot of really wonderful parents
Speaker 3: will have volunteered to be part of studies that look
Speaker 3: at putting these probiotics into formula and showing these benefits.
Speaker 3: And I think that's important to acknowledge because we can't
Speaker 3: keep improving the science if we don't have people who
Speaker 3: want to participate in the science. So I think that's
Speaker 3: a really great role that these mums and bubs have
Speaker 3: played to allow us.
Speaker 1: To keep growing.
Speaker 2: Actually, I just received a final questionnaire from the University
Speaker 2: of Queensland for a longitudel study that I did with
Speaker 2: my daughter about development. Totally forgot all about it until
Speaker 2: I got the final questionnaire and it was like, oh
Speaker 2: my goodness, I participated in something that went for twenty
Speaker 2: five years.
Speaker 1: Pretty cool.
Speaker 3: It's so powerful and in a few years maybe someone's
Speaker 3: doing a podcast sharing some new advice based on that study.
Speaker 3: Is just so impactful, and I think that really highlights
Speaker 3: what I was saying before about it's easy to take
Speaker 3: for granted raising children because we've raised children for eons.
Speaker 3: But as we learn more about the science, we can
Speaker 3: do better for those children. And we live in different
Speaker 3: environments now, and so we have different pressures to do
Speaker 3: better for those children. And when I think about a
Speaker 3: concept like prebiotics that's younger than me. Prebiotics has only
Speaker 3: been a term since nineteen ninety five. So if we
Speaker 3: relied on what my grandma told my mum, we really
Speaker 3: could be missing a trick in supporting immune health and
Speaker 3: in supporting parents.
Speaker 2: You spoke before about autoimmune ca conditions. Do the prebiotics
Speaker 2: help long term with that, not just with kids but
Speaker 2: with adults. Is the research looking into that currently directly?
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say that data is there yet, But again,
Speaker 3: from that join the dot's perspective, and knowing what we know,
Speaker 3: having a well programmed immune response to pathogens and priming
Speaker 3: that gut microbiota to be biased in the positive direction
Speaker 3: is very likely to have positive outcomes for other conditions
Speaker 3: as well. But I wouldn't want to overstate that not
Speaker 3: having that data yet. The data is really clear for
Speaker 3: gut function, it's really clear for the gut bacteria. It's
Speaker 3: really clear for the metabolites that are being produced. But
Speaker 3: we do need to do more research to get that
Speaker 3: direct evidence, because obviously when we're looking longer term, that
Speaker 3: takes longer to get.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it would be wonderful because the amount of autoimmune
Speaker 2: conditions that are just spiking, it's phenomenal. And look, I
Speaker 2: have my own ideas about that. I do think our
Speaker 2: stressful life and not caring for ourselves impacts a lot
Speaker 2: of that, But that's not science backed. That's just from
Speaker 2: me talking to lots of people. It's interesting. A colleague
Speaker 2: of mine is a specialist in a emergency department and
Speaker 2: we were chatting the other week and he was quite surprised.
Speaker 2: We just got chatting about different things that are presenting
Speaker 2: at the adults emergency and he was saying that he
Speaker 2: just can't get over autoimmune conditions, heart attacks, strokes, weird cancers,
Speaker 2: brain tumors. He said, they're seeing things they've never seen before,
Speaker 2: presenting in much younger demographics. And I said, Demma, what
Speaker 2: do you think and he goes, I definitely think it's stress,
Speaker 2: he said. I think it's our phones attached to our
Speaker 2: ears all the time. People have the phone on their wrist,
Speaker 2: there's never any downtime. And it sort of made me think,
Speaker 2: you know, I think all of this impacts the gut
Speaker 2: and impacts the brain. I just don't know if we're
Speaker 2: feeding our bodies the right things to also be coping
Speaker 2: with all of this stress, because I know if I
Speaker 2: eat a good, healthy meal, look after myself properly, I
Speaker 2: feel far better than if I eat fast food.
Speaker 1: Do you agree with that?
Speaker 2: Do you think food, the mind, stress all plays a
Speaker 2: role in autoimmune conditions, in cancers, in tumors. I'm asking
Speaker 2: not scientifically, I suppose just your personal belief. It's really
Speaker 2: hard for me to separate personal tiberance. But we know
Speaker 2: that the gut and the brain are connected in both directions,
Speaker 2: and so what goes on in our brain affects our gut.
Speaker 2: What goes in our gut affects our brain, What goes
Speaker 2: on in our gut affects everything in our body. If
Speaker 2: I was to pick the organ system that has the
Speaker 2: biggest impact on health, it's always the gut. Knowing that
Speaker 2: we live in this environment that, as you said, is
Speaker 2: quite technological, it's quite hectic, there is a lot of
Speaker 2: stress going on. Again goes back to how we can't
Speaker 2: just keep doing what we've always done and keep giving
Speaker 2: the advice that we've always given because science is always
Speaker 2: going to be in flux with that change. So keeping
Speaker 2: up with what we can do to optimize responses and
Speaker 2: improve outcomes is always going to be important in nutrition
Speaker 2: and in health sciences generally. But going back to you know,
Speaker 2: stress and the impact of stress on the gut and
Speaker 2: how then that leads to disease, I think this is
Speaker 2: all the more reason of why we want to be
Speaker 2: across the importance of that first thousand days of life.
Speaker 2: So first thousand days of life being from conception to
Speaker 2: two years of age in the child, because that is
Speaker 2: the programming stage, That is the priming stage, and programming
Speaker 2: and priming is going to determine how resilient we are
Speaker 2: to these other stresses and these other exposures, because obviously
Speaker 2: we keep getting exposed to things throughout our life. After formula,
Speaker 2: after breastfeeding, we're transitioning into solids, which brings a whole
Speaker 2: new set of exposures to the gastrointestinal track, brings a
Speaker 2: whole new set of stresses in the brain as well.
Speaker 2: And so no matter what we're doing at whatever life stage,
Speaker 2: getting that foundation right first gives us the best chance
Speaker 2: at those outcomes being what we want them to be later.
Speaker 2: What are the things you do in my research beforehand
Speaker 2: and you brought it up before about the phs stools.
Speaker 2: Why is that so important in bubbers?
Speaker 3: Well, the PHR stool is important for everyone because it's
Speaker 3: an indicator of overall functions. So stool should be slightly acidic,
Speaker 3: so it shouldn't be too basic, it shouldn't be bang
Speaker 3: on neutral, and it shouldn't be very acidic either. So
Speaker 3: like everything in the body, you know how we have
Speaker 3: our pH buffering in blood, and each of our organs
Speaker 3: has their own pH environment, our gastrointestinal environm.
Speaker 1: It's an indicator of its overall health. It's pH.
Speaker 3: And one of the reasons why pH changes with the
Speaker 3: health of that environment is because the good gut bacteria
Speaker 3: are producing short chain fatty acids, so things like acetates
Speaker 3: and propenoates and butyrates, and they're actually the signaling molecules
Speaker 3: that go on to have those knock on effects that
Speaker 3: cause benefits for the immune system and cause benefits for
Speaker 3: the gut wall. So one of the reasons why keeping
Speaker 3: your gut microbiome healthy is improving your health outcomes and
Speaker 3: particularly your immune outcomes, is the gastrointestinal microbiome the bacteria
Speaker 3: produce energy and produce metabolites that actually feed the wall
Speaker 3: of the gut, So you don't need to be a
Speaker 3: scientist to know that a healthy wall of the gut
Speaker 3: is going to improve immune outcomes because it means the
Speaker 3: right things are getting in and the right things are
Speaker 3: being blocked out, having a nice exchange of information between
Speaker 3: the inside and the outside of the body. So the
Speaker 3: store pH is a marker of all that going on
Speaker 3: and working appropriately.
Speaker 2: What age do you recommend for little ones to start
Speaker 2: introducing solids? What is the most beneficial age?
Speaker 3: So from an age point of view, it's around six months.
Speaker 3: There are physiological markers of children being ready in terms
Speaker 3: of being able to hold their head up and the
Speaker 3: way they can move their jaw and those reflexes, but
Speaker 3: six months is key. It's important to remember though we're
Speaker 3: very rarely going bam. We're done with breastfeeding and formula
Speaker 3: feeding and now we're eating solids. It's a transition period
Speaker 3: and that's another place where I think prebiotics are going
Speaker 3: to prove to be important in formulas or coming from
Speaker 3: breast milk, because there are probiotics in breast milk as well.
Speaker 3: Because when we start introducing solids, we start introducing allergens
Speaker 3: and we start introducing pathogen So there's going to be
Speaker 3: bacteria on food, there's going to be bacteria on plates.
Speaker 1: Don't panic.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying they're unclean. There's bacteria everywhere, and those
Speaker 3: meeting the immune system in the most optimal way, which
Speaker 3: is supported by probiotics, is going to help with that
Speaker 3: programming in that stage. So it's a high risk, high
Speaker 3: reward stage when you do start introducing those solids, and
Speaker 3: remembering we get probiotics in our solids as well, and
Speaker 3: so introducing prebiotic rich solids can help support that stage
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 2: So you would encourage if your breastfeeding still breastfeed, cut
Speaker 2: it down to two three times day, If you are
Speaker 2: still bottle feeded, continue the bottle feeds, but ad in
Speaker 2: the solids as well and just slowly integrate them and
Speaker 2: just one or two little things each week or if
Speaker 2: the child shows interest. Would that be a fair statement.
Speaker 3: It's definitely a staged approach. It's definitely a transition, not
Speaker 3: hard cut point, and it's going to be different for
Speaker 3: every child. So I think one of the things that
Speaker 3: we do wrong in nutrition generally, but particularly in early
Speaker 3: childhood nutrition is. We make a lot of comparisons about
Speaker 3: behaviors and stages and speeds and ways of doing things,
Speaker 3: and there's lots of ways to get to the same endpoint,
Speaker 3: and each of us is a very unique, very wonderful individual,
Speaker 3: and that goes for our kids as well.
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit interested in the gut brain, how
Speaker 2: it works together, and the impact that food has on mood.
Speaker 2: Could you explain a little bit more about that.
Speaker 1: It's complicated.
Speaker 3: All of those things that I was talking about before,
Speaker 3: in terms of the short chain fatty acids and the
Speaker 3: signaling molecules and the immune system itself are all going
Speaker 3: to have knock on effects to what goes on in
Speaker 3: the brain, because the hormones that affect the gut affect
Speaker 3: the brain. The hormones that affect the brain affect the
Speaker 3: gut much and so knowing the beginning point in these
Speaker 3: cycles is often quite difficult because if there's something going
Speaker 3: on in the brain that can have consequences for digestion
Speaker 3: and absorption and gastrointestinal microbioda. But if there's things going
Speaker 3: on in any of those places as well, that will
Speaker 3: have knock on effects for the brain and mood and
Speaker 3: hunger and mental health and all of those things. So
Speaker 3: the complexity of those signaling molecules and the nerves that
Speaker 3: run from the gut to the brain and vice versa,
Speaker 3: the complexity of those is it's really hard to come
Speaker 3: up with definitive answers about do this get that result
Speaker 3: or this one thing causes this other thing. And so
Speaker 3: I think it's important when we're looking at this evidence
Speaker 3: to take a step back and say, well, from a
Speaker 3: holistic point of view, based on the evidence, what are
Speaker 3: the best decisions we can make? And that's where you
Speaker 3: come back to the evidence for nurturing that gastro intestinal
Speaker 3: tract and nurturing that gastro intestinal microbiome through adding the
Speaker 3: probiotics when necessary, but adding the probiotics so that they
Speaker 3: have something to eat and they can be nourished in
Speaker 3: the same way that our bodies are nourished.
Speaker 2: So if we aim to do this in that first
Speaker 2: thousand days of life, we are setting our children up
Speaker 2: to try and optimize their health moving forward.
Speaker 1: Is that a correct assumption.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's about laying the foundation. This is not a
Speaker 3: journey that ever ends. We do need to keep eating
Speaker 3: well throughout our lives to help reduce our risk of
Speaker 3: disease and to protect ourselves and to optimize those health
Speaker 3: and wellbeing outcomes. But if you think about it as
Speaker 3: you want to give your child the best jumping off point,
Speaker 3: because that means it's less effort later, it's less of
Speaker 3: a barrier to overcome, and so getting that program being
Speaker 3: supported early it's a no brainer. It doesn't mean if
Speaker 3: you've missed that window, it's over. It means that if
Speaker 3: you can optimize that window, you improve chances and outcomes
Speaker 3: later and there's less work to catch back up.
Speaker 1: So it is very important in the scheme of things.
Speaker 2: The research is now showing those first thousand days after
Speaker 2: a bubba is born food wise is really important to
Speaker 2: try and set them up with as many probiotics and
Speaker 2: prebiotics to feed the probiotics.
Speaker 1: Is that right? That would be a fair assumption.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like obviously there are entire societies and entire schools
Speaker 3: of research that are dedicated to this first thousand days.
Speaker 3: I don't think we want to be as overstated in
Speaker 3: saying as many as possible, because it's about having the
Speaker 3: right ratios and the right amounts. So it's not like
Speaker 3: you need to add a probiotic formula and then find
Speaker 3: extra ways to gm probiotics into your children. The formulas
Speaker 3: are optimized to have the correct ratio, so if you
Speaker 3: start adding too many probiotics, then you're going to be
Speaker 3: displacing other things that you want to be getting in. So,
Speaker 3: like everything in nutrition, it's not more is better, it's
Speaker 3: about having those right ratios. And the research around these
Speaker 3: probiotics in formulas, the most evidence is around the goss
Speaker 3: and the foss that we talked about earlier, and a
Speaker 3: nine to one ratio of those, and there's an optimal
Speaker 3: amount to be adding because we don't obviously want to
Speaker 3: be displacing the carbohydrates and the fats and all those
Speaker 3: other great things that are in formula that nourishes baby
Speaker 3: from a building blocks point of view, we don't want
Speaker 3: to displace those with probiotics.
Speaker 2: After one of those shows on Netflix, and that was
Speaker 2: saying to get the best gut health and probiotics and probotics,
Speaker 2: you should be eating from this fast variety of food
Speaker 2: in a week and something like sixty different nuts, seeds, greens, reds. Anyway,
Speaker 2: I gave it a bit of a crack. I swear
Speaker 2: to god, I was flat out and doing twenty cost
Speaker 2: me a fortune.
Speaker 1: It tasted like crap. I was like, I can't do this.
Speaker 2: That's why I think, you know, the formula side of
Speaker 2: thing is fantastic, And if you can use a product
Speaker 2: that has that already scientifically proven amount and it's been
Speaker 2: added in the correct way into a formula, is a
Speaker 2: really great option. And don't do it like me where
Speaker 2: I lasted two weeks and my bank balance took a
Speaker 2: hit end I couldn't afford the brazil nuts anymore. It's
Speaker 2: crazy and I got sucked into trying that. Don't get
Speaker 2: me wrong, I get sucked into a lot of things.
Speaker 2: But if I have a healthcare background and I thought
Speaker 2: it would be worthwhile trying twenty thirty forty fifty different
Speaker 2: fruits veggies, imagine how complex and confusing it must be
Speaker 2: for someone that doesn't have that health background. I mean,
Speaker 2: they must find it exceptionally confusing trying to work out
Speaker 2: what is best for their family for themselves.
Speaker 1: And so this is hard.
Speaker 3: When we hear things in the world about what we
Speaker 3: should eat and then trying to translate that in our
Speaker 3: brains about what are the best decisions for our children
Speaker 3: is quite difficult, So I think it's a couple of things.
Speaker 3: Is the recommendation for that variety comes from the fact
Speaker 3: that different things can act as prebiotics, and plants make
Speaker 3: these things as part of plants protecting themselves from stresses.
Speaker 3: So if we spread our variety, we get more types
Speaker 3: of these things which could have functional benefits. But when
Speaker 3: that target feels impossible, then we can start feeling like
Speaker 3: we're failing and that this is too difficult, and that
Speaker 3: can cause us to go, well, let's not do this
Speaker 3: at all. And so I would definitely say those when
Speaker 3: we talk about variety targets, those are arbitrary numbers, they're
Speaker 3: not rules. But then when we translate that into the
Speaker 3: data that we have for the infant formulas, the important
Speaker 3: thing to remember is in breast milk there is a
Speaker 3: whole bunch of naturally produced prebiotics that will be there.
Speaker 3: It probably isn't possible with the science yet to mimic
Speaker 3: that fully in the formula from a structural point of view,
Speaker 3: but what the research looks to do is to mimic
Speaker 3: that in a functional point of view.
Speaker 1: And so when the goss and the foss.
Speaker 3: When the galactoligosachrides and the fructologosachriides are added in that
Speaker 3: nine to one ratio. That's what we're getting as close
Speaker 3: to the functional benefits as we can with the science
Speaker 3: so far.
Speaker 1: So it's not.
Speaker 3: Necessarily about having all the things, it's about how do
Speaker 3: we get those functional benefits, possibly in a different way,
Speaker 3: because in nutrition there's always more than one pathway to
Speaker 3: the same outcome.
Speaker 2: What if mum has a really poor diet and is
Speaker 2: breastfeed what happens.
Speaker 3: Then The quality of breast milk depends on mum's diet,
Speaker 3: so that is really important. But also creating breast milk
Speaker 3: that is of quality is a priority in mum's body.
Speaker 3: And so if mom isn't looking after her diet, she
Speaker 3: could be sacrificing her health outcomes in later life, things
Speaker 3: like bone health, for example, for the health of her
Speaker 3: child now. So definitely, it's like on the planes when
Speaker 3: they say you need to put your mask on first
Speaker 3: before helping infants. In children, you do need to be
Speaker 3: looking after yourself in parenting, not just when you're breastfeeding,
Speaker 3: but parents do need to be looking after themselves as
Speaker 3: well so that they can be looking after their children.
Speaker 3: And that's also about role modeling, Yeah, because we don't
Speaker 3: want kids to be growing up seeing that mum doesn't eat,
Speaker 3: or mum only eats once the kids are eaten and
Speaker 3: eats the leftovers off their plates, or those kinds of things.
Speaker 3: That's not setting up good cycles of role modeling for
Speaker 3: children in the future.
Speaker 2: And this is coming a little bit off baby topic,
Speaker 2: but it is something that I'm interested in as a
Speaker 2: lot of my clients have had gastric bypass surgery or
Speaker 2: the sleeve. Now I know this isn't your specialty, but
Speaker 2: in my mind, particularly gastric bypass where it bypasses the
Speaker 2: gut altogether, how much of the good pre and probiotics
Speaker 2: are actually work in the gart compared to the intestine.
Speaker 1: Is that going to be a huge issue you think
Speaker 1: down the track.
Speaker 3: So I think this is an example of it depends. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: the answer is almost always it depends in nutrition. So
Speaker 3: when we have banding or bypass, we're skipping the top
Speaker 3: part of the gastro intestinal tract and we've still got
Speaker 3: the function in the lower part of the gastro intestinal tract.
Speaker 3: So there's some studies that will show benefits for gut
Speaker 3: health post those kinds of interventions, and there's others that
Speaker 3: will show harms to gastrointestinal health that comes post those interventions,
Speaker 3: and that's probably down to what is the nutrition like
Speaker 3: and what is the care like post intervention, because like anything,
Speaker 3: just doing the intervention is one thing, and then it's
Speaker 3: how do we maintain and support the body in the
Speaker 3: best way post that.
Speaker 1: If you have an.
Speaker 3: Intervention like a gastric sleeve or a banding or bypass,
Speaker 3: and then you don't change your diet, you're probably not
Speaker 3: going to see any benefits to your gut health, and
Speaker 3: you might see harms to your gut health. But if
Speaker 3: you use that as a jumping off point to improve
Speaker 3: nourishment and keep adding prebiotics and keep adding probiotics and
Speaker 3: not doing the things that will damage gut bacteria, which
Speaker 3: is alcohol and junk food and smoking, then it's very
Speaker 3: likely you'll see a beneficial effect. And so it will
Speaker 3: definitely be different outcomes for different situations, and again it's
Speaker 3: about getting the support to make sure that you can
Speaker 3: do the things that are going to optimize those outcomes.
Speaker 2: With nurses doing shift work, you know, with the largest
Speaker 2: demographic workforce, with women in it, A lot of them
Speaker 2: are mums and working night like I did night duties.
Speaker 2: Sleep How important is sleep with nutrition?
Speaker 1: Sleep's very important with nutrition.
Speaker 3: So sleep is when your body is processing everything that
Speaker 3: you've eaten throughout the day into repair, development, maintenance in
Speaker 3: your body. And sleep is also going to impact hormones,
Speaker 3: it's going to impact gut function, and that's going to
Speaker 3: have a knock on effect for microbiome and all these
Speaker 3: other things that we have been talking about. So sleep
Speaker 3: is definitely important. But that said, some people are in
Speaker 3: situations where they're sleep will be disrupted because of night shifts,
Speaker 3: because of crying baby, because of other care as responsibilities,
Speaker 3: and so knowing that that will have an impact and
Speaker 3: that we do want to optimize those outcomes through sleep
Speaker 3: where possible, But knowing that even in the context of
Speaker 3: poor sleep or disrupted sleep or shift work, you can
Speaker 3: still make the best choices to support your health. So,
Speaker 3: knowing that people will have different pressures and different risks
Speaker 3: because of those sleep related challenges, we want to fix
Speaker 3: those challenges first if we can, but we still want
Speaker 3: to make the best decisions possible on top of that
Speaker 3: in that context, because like we said, right at the beginning.
Speaker 1: Perfection is not a thing.
Speaker 3: We're never all going to be in the situation where
Speaker 3: we're all getting the perfect amount of sleep and eating
Speaker 3: the perfect amount of things and living the perfect lives,
Speaker 3: And so what decisions can we make? And if you're
Speaker 3: not sleeping well, making those decisions can feel harder. So
Speaker 3: this isn't going to be a one size fits all approach.
Speaker 3: It's not going to be a if we all put
Speaker 3: in the same amount of effort, we all get the
Speaker 3: same outcomes. This will be different for all of us,
Speaker 3: and we can walk those journeys with kindness for ourselves
Speaker 3: and kindness.
Speaker 1: For each other. That is so true.
Speaker 2: If you are a family member that has a child
Speaker 2: that doesn't sleep, how does that impact the child gut wise?
Speaker 2: If they're just like my son did not sleep for
Speaker 2: three years. We were flat out having him have an
Speaker 2: hour in one go. He was a nightmare and by
Speaker 2: the end of three years, I was a basket case.
Speaker 2: Decided not to have any more children. But what would
Speaker 2: have the impact been on him and his gut health?
Speaker 2: Because they never found out what was wrong. They thought
Speaker 2: it might have been silent reflux. He was in that
Speaker 2: hospital fed with a tube. It was very complex and
Speaker 2: no one could ever give us an answer.
Speaker 1: Even to this day.
Speaker 2: He's funny with certain foods that could have had a
Speaker 2: huge impact on his gut health and his immunity. And
Speaker 2: is that a correct assumption, do you think, Emma.
Speaker 1: So it's hard to say.
Speaker 3: I don't think we've got the data on sleep and
Speaker 3: stress and those kinds of things in children. It's been
Speaker 3: studied well in adults, but obviously, for ethical reasons and
Speaker 3: practical reasons, that's a lot harder to study in children.
Speaker 3: I think one of the really important things to remember,
Speaker 3: and we've talked a lot about doing our best and
Speaker 3: optimizing and giving the best jumping off point, but the
Speaker 3: human body is a very complex and robust organism. Even
Speaker 3: if we've missed a window, or even if we've had
Speaker 3: a window disrupted by ill health or by whatever else,
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean we need to beat ourselves up about
Speaker 3: the fact that those things happen. And from each decision
Speaker 3: making point, we can just strive to make the best
Speaker 3: decision based on the best evidence in the circumstances we
Speaker 3: find ourselves in, even though from a scientific point of view,
Speaker 3: unpicking what that means, what the consequences are can feel important.
Speaker 3: It's important not to let those circumstances get in the
Speaker 3: way of making your next best decision in the next
Speaker 3: decision making moment. I think that's what happens when it
Speaker 3: comes down to, you know, the breast is best conversation.
Speaker 3: We can't let that get in the way of making
Speaker 3: the next decision when that's not possible for whatever reason,
Speaker 3: whether it's work, whether it's biological function, whether it's adoption,
Speaker 3: whatever it is. We can't let that history get in
Speaker 3: the way of decision making moving forward, because that's just
Speaker 3: being a slave to history rather than being optimistic and
Speaker 3: being prepared for the future.
Speaker 2: I think we've come a long long way because when
Speaker 2: I was talking to my mum about this, I was
Speaker 2: not breastfed.
Speaker 1: I was fed carnation milk. That's what they did.
Speaker 2: And I'm don't tell anyone like fifty four ish.
Speaker 1: But that's what they had.
Speaker 2: Just didn't have other things, certainly not saying it was
Speaker 2: the best, but it was the best that they knew
Speaker 2: at that time, so they just did the best they could.
Speaker 2: And it was a bit frowned upon back then to breastfeed,
Speaker 2: and I don't know why it was probably how no
Speaker 2: one wanted to see breast.
Speaker 1: It was rude. I don't know, and then.
Speaker 2: It has evolved and evolved, and then when I had
Speaker 2: my kids, it was certainly breast is best. You do
Speaker 2: your best, and then when that doesn't happen, then you
Speaker 2: go down other pathways, which is still current. It's just
Speaker 2: that there's more current evidence around if you can't breastfeed,
Speaker 2: that there are some better choices in formulas, and it's
Speaker 2: just important to have that knowledge around what those decisions are.
Speaker 2: So when I was reading the information around the prebiotics
Speaker 2: and the big names, and I had to look in
Speaker 2: the chemist and had to look at some of the
Speaker 2: tins and things like that, it was very interesting when
Speaker 2: I interviewed doctor Elizabeth and she said, there's little information
Speaker 2: out there for parents to look at how to actually
Speaker 2: bottle feed appropriately. So like me, a lot of people
Speaker 2: are just going off the tin, Whereas now you have
Speaker 2: helped work on this website, this information line for people
Speaker 2: to have some really great evidence based information on how
Speaker 2: to feed a little one that might be doing mixed
Speaker 2: feeding might be bottled only due to whatever reason. And
Speaker 2: I think that is such a fantastic thing for healthcare
Speaker 2: professionals to be able to recommend.
Speaker 1: It feels to me like this is way overdue.
Speaker 3: And I think it comes down to sometimes in nutrition
Speaker 3: we're making decisions for survival, and that sounds like you're
Speaker 3: on the carnation milk. My mum was bottle fed as well.
Speaker 3: She was adopted at a very young age. She then
Speaker 3: managed to breastfeed. I think nine of the ten siblings
Speaker 3: that I have, the premes needed to be fed from
Speaker 3: a milk bank, but the rest of them she breastfed.
Speaker 3: And so sometimes we're making those decisions for survival, but
Speaker 3: sometimes we're in a position where we can make those
Speaker 3: decisions for thriving. And I think that's where looking for
Speaker 3: the right formula and in this case specifically the ones
Speaker 3: that have the goss and the foss those prebiotics added,
Speaker 3: that's a decision for thriving that sets bub up for
Speaker 3: fewer challenges in the rest of their life. And so,
Speaker 3: you know, whatever that jumping off point is, we can
Speaker 3: start making those decisions, hopefully in that thriving sense, and
Speaker 3: less of them in the survival sense as we move
Speaker 3: forward with that better science and with that less stigma
Speaker 3: that by not having those conversations around the choices. We
Speaker 3: are leaving it up to people to make their own decisions.
Speaker 3: It's either perfect or figure it out yourself. And we
Speaker 3: can definitely do better in having those conversations in the
Speaker 3: middle ground and the other options as well.
Speaker 1: Ground.
Speaker 2: Isn't it supporting whatever your choice is and disseminating the
Speaker 2: correct information that is evidence based, that is researched, so
Speaker 2: that we can set those bubbies up for life to
Speaker 2: thrive and also set the parents up. There's nothing better
Speaker 2: as a parent than seeing your little one happy, smiling, thriving, eating,
Speaker 2: being fed and happy in that milk drunk sort of situation.
Speaker 2: It's one of the most beautiful moments as a parent
Speaker 2: because you feel accomplished. And whether that be from breast
Speaker 2: milk or from a bottle, there is just nothing better
Speaker 2: to see a little baby so satisfied that they just
Speaker 2: pass out from being fed. But I just think that
Speaker 2: we as healthcare professionals really need to support the families
Speaker 2: in our care and not be judgmental. Everyone is doing
Speaker 2: the best they can and sometimes they don't know what's better,
Speaker 2: and maybe we in a very kind and considerate way
Speaker 2: to seminate that information or point them in the right direction,
Speaker 2: where really smart people like doctor Emma have worked really
Speaker 2: hard with research to work out what is best for
Speaker 2: bubbs in the first thousand days. Why wouldn't we just
Speaker 2: jump on that and share that information and go to
Speaker 2: that website and tell our colleagues about it, and tell
Speaker 2: our midwives about it and just support each other. I
Speaker 2: think that's the best thing we can do as healthcare practitioners, because,
Speaker 2: oh my god, it is tough out there.
Speaker 3: I think that is a really beautiful way of putting it,
Speaker 3: because yes, there's science for this, but there's also all
Speaker 3: the stressful and negative emotions that can be attached to
Speaker 3: this as well. So being able to balance the science
Speaker 3: and the society and the parent and bob needs, I
Speaker 3: think is a really powerful and empowering space to be
Speaker 3: and so glad to have been a small part of it.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, doctor Emma. I am in awe
Speaker 2: of your skill set and your skin.
Speaker 1: I swear to God.
Speaker 2: If that's pre and probiotics, I'm getting onto them. Doctor
Speaker 2: Emma has the most amazing skin, and as you guys know,
Speaker 2: dermatology is my specialty, so I've been sitting and.
Speaker 1: Looking at it in all it is flawless.
Speaker 2: So if ever there is a really great reason to
Speaker 2: have a good diet and pre and probiotics, just have
Speaker 2: a look at your skin.
Speaker 3: Amazing skin is a great way to get people interested
Speaker 3: in nutrition because it's very hard to imagine cardiovascular disease
Speaker 3: outcomes and bone outcomes in your eighties. But you can
Speaker 3: see your skin as well, and what you see on
Speaker 3: the outside is often a reflection of what's going on
Speaker 3: on the inside.
Speaker 2: Well, your skin looks remarkable. Thank you so much for
Speaker 2: taking the time to chat. It's such a huge topic.
Speaker 2: Like it's a huge topic and very on point at
Speaker 2: the moment because people really are wanting to do the
Speaker 2: best for their loved ones. So thank you so much
Speaker 2: for the research you do, for the work you do,
Speaker 2: and also for working so hard on getting an amazing
Speaker 2: website for families and healthcare professionals. I can't wait to
Speaker 2: share it, so thank you, Thank.
Speaker 1: You so much.
Speaker 3: I've thoroughly enjoyed the conversation, and all the best conversations
Speaker 3: meander you don't know where they're going to go. Well,
Speaker 3: I will say lots of other people have worked on
Speaker 3: this research, in this website, these resources, not just me
Speaker 3: so shout out to the entire team who have brought
Speaker 3: this information together so that it can be practical.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys all so much, and thank you Doctor Emma.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 2: This season, I am so excited to announce that the
Speaker 2: podcast is being supported by Nutritia, which is a global
Speaker 2: leader in medical nutrition. They understand the needs of nurses
Speaker 2: in the nutrition space and for over one hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty five years have provided products to support child health.
Speaker 2: Some of Nutritiona's pediatric brands include Neo Kate Junior for
Speaker 2: children who have food allergies, and app to Grow for
Speaker 2: those fussy eaters. And those of us who have children
Speaker 2: know many kids who go through the phases of definite fussiness.
Speaker 2: For more information and resources, visit the NUTRITIONA Pediatrics hub
Speaker 2: at nutritia dot com dot au forward slash pediatrics. I
Speaker 2: just want to say a huge thank you to Nutritia.
Speaker 2: Their desire to support nurses is truly appreciated, and they
Speaker 2: are allowing me to continue this podcast so that we
Speaker 2: can all grow as nurses.