1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: Apoche production, Welcome to Real Crime with Adam shand I'm 2 00:00:16,481 --> 00:00:19,441 Speaker 1: your host Adam shand a change of pace this week, 3 00:00:19,561 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: Let's get on the train. Like many of you out there, 4 00:00:22,721 --> 00:00:25,441 Speaker 1: the price of fuel has driven me back to public transport. 5 00:00:25,921 --> 00:00:28,881 Speaker 1: An Australian motorists have been warned it could take months 6 00:00:28,921 --> 00:00:31,521 Speaker 1: for fuel prices to come down, even if the war 7 00:00:31,681 --> 00:00:35,201 Speaker 1: with a run in soon. I was on the Frankston 8 00:00:35,281 --> 00:00:37,681 Speaker 1: Line the other night in Melbourne when I saw a 9 00:00:37,721 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: surly half drunk individual bullying and intimidating some women. 10 00:00:42,921 --> 00:00:46,801 Speaker 2: Melbourne commuters report a sharp rise in anti social behavior 11 00:00:46,881 --> 00:00:52,321 Speaker 2: on metropolitan trains, with transport authorities urging passengers to report 12 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,521 Speaker 2: incidents rather than intervene. 13 00:00:56,041 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: They'd asked him to turn down the music he was 14 00:00:57,921 --> 00:01:01,081 Speaker 1: playing on his mobile phone, and he proceeded to swear 15 00:01:01,161 --> 00:01:03,961 Speaker 1: and curse and lean into them, putting his feet across 16 00:01:04,001 --> 00:01:06,921 Speaker 1: the isle under their seats, staring at them menacingly and 17 00:01:07,001 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: muttering threats. After about ten minutes of this, I suggested 18 00:01:10,881 --> 00:01:13,761 Speaker 1: that he leave them alone. This caused him to turn 19 00:01:13,761 --> 00:01:16,521 Speaker 1: his abuse toward me, which I was more than happy 20 00:01:16,521 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: to accommodate. As he came at me, I noticed the 21 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,361 Speaker 1: women had gone to the end of the carriage and 22 00:01:21,401 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: pushed the distress alarm. I told this knucklehead unless he 23 00:01:26,121 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: sat down, he wasn't going home and could finish up 24 00:01:29,041 --> 00:01:32,881 Speaker 1: in the watchhouse. He sat down. He thought this was 25 00:01:32,961 --> 00:01:36,401 Speaker 1: hilarious and said he wouldn't mind that. His wish came 26 00:01:36,481 --> 00:01:40,241 Speaker 1: one step closer very soon at the next stop, five 27 00:01:40,321 --> 00:01:43,721 Speaker 1: Protective Services officers from Victoria Police got on the train 28 00:01:44,081 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: and escorted him off. 29 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,721 Speaker 2: Protective Services officers made more than twelve thousand arrests on 30 00:01:49,801 --> 00:01:55,281 Speaker 2: Melbourne's rail network last year, figures that surprised even regular commuters. 31 00:01:55,681 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: It got me thinking about the basic rights of people 32 00:01:58,081 --> 00:02:02,801 Speaker 1: using public transport, especially women, and how dangerous these situations 33 00:02:02,841 --> 00:02:03,281 Speaker 1: can be. 34 00:02:03,921 --> 00:02:08,161 Speaker 2: A Victorian woman says she felt trapped and terrified after 35 00:02:08,201 --> 00:02:11,681 Speaker 2: a fellow passenger turned violent on a peak hour servers 36 00:02:12,001 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 2: and no one stepped into health. 37 00:02:15,881 --> 00:02:19,401 Speaker 1: Sean Hally is the acting Superintendent in the Transit Safety 38 00:02:19,401 --> 00:02:23,241 Speaker 1: Division in Northwest Metro Region in Melbourne, and he's dropped 39 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: into the Real Crime Studio to talk about transit safety 40 00:02:26,881 --> 00:02:29,281 Speaker 1: and the work of Protective Services officers. 41 00:02:29,361 --> 00:02:33,081 Speaker 3: Welcome Sean, Yeah, thanks, Adam. 42 00:02:33,161 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 4: Absolutely pleasure to have you here, mate. 43 00:02:35,161 --> 00:02:37,721 Speaker 1: I was really impressed the way your guys and girls 44 00:02:37,841 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: operated on the weekend. That's just another day for them. 45 00:02:40,881 --> 00:02:43,041 Speaker 1: Take me through. I think you know the background to 46 00:02:43,081 --> 00:02:44,601 Speaker 1: that incident. What actually happened in. 47 00:02:44,561 --> 00:02:48,241 Speaker 5: The end, Well, as you saw, the PSOs got on 48 00:02:48,281 --> 00:02:51,201 Speaker 5: the train and had a conversation with the mail who 49 00:02:51,361 --> 00:02:55,721 Speaker 5: was drunk. They took him off the train by consent 50 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 5: on his part. I put the options to him. I've 51 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 5: watched a body warm camera and they dealt with him 52 00:03:01,441 --> 00:03:05,921 Speaker 5: really well, really professionally. There was no physical intervention. It 53 00:03:06,001 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 5: was just through words, and obviously that communication is one 54 00:03:08,841 --> 00:03:14,081 Speaker 5: of their best weapons. He was protesting his innocence. Of course, 55 00:03:14,121 --> 00:03:16,681 Speaker 5: he did nothing, wanted to know where the evidence was. 56 00:03:17,321 --> 00:03:20,441 Speaker 5: They spoke about the call and what they had and 57 00:03:20,481 --> 00:03:23,161 Speaker 5: gave him some options. He refused to give his name 58 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,081 Speaker 5: initially the PSOs. It was really impressive the way they 59 00:03:27,081 --> 00:03:30,961 Speaker 5: did it. One person took control and gave him a 60 00:03:31,041 --> 00:03:33,641 Speaker 5: number of chances to. 61 00:03:32,881 --> 00:03:34,121 Speaker 3: Provide his name and address. 62 00:03:34,361 --> 00:03:37,281 Speaker 5: They explained the offenses that he committed, which is offensive 63 00:03:37,281 --> 00:03:41,361 Speaker 5: behavior in decent language on the transport system, which is 64 00:03:41,401 --> 00:03:44,081 Speaker 5: a really strong piece of legislation. It's different to normal 65 00:03:44,441 --> 00:03:47,761 Speaker 5: Summary Offenses Act. It's under the Transport Act and he 66 00:03:47,801 --> 00:03:50,801 Speaker 5: refused to give his name. He was handcuffed, taken to 67 00:03:50,841 --> 00:03:53,601 Speaker 5: the pod which is at the Corefield Railway station, where 68 00:03:53,641 --> 00:03:55,841 Speaker 5: he was ultimately identified. 69 00:03:56,121 --> 00:03:56,801 Speaker 3: They did get his. 70 00:03:56,841 --> 00:03:59,121 Speaker 5: Name from him and issued with a couple of penalty 71 00:03:59,161 --> 00:04:01,361 Speaker 5: notices for that offending and released. 72 00:04:02,321 --> 00:04:06,321 Speaker 1: What an unnecessary waste of public resources for somebody. I mean, 73 00:04:06,561 --> 00:04:09,161 Speaker 1: you have to use the resources. But someone who could 74 00:04:09,201 --> 00:04:12,921 Speaker 1: just be compliant, he decides to act up at every opportunity. 75 00:04:13,041 --> 00:04:14,281 Speaker 4: I'm glad that he was handcuffed. 76 00:04:14,321 --> 00:04:16,681 Speaker 1: I say, I'm glad to hear that, because they would 77 00:04:16,681 --> 00:04:18,521 Speaker 1: have taken some of the fight because he was so 78 00:04:18,681 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: confident that he could get away with this behavior. I 79 00:04:21,801 --> 00:04:23,721 Speaker 1: said to him, is this how you treat your mother 80 00:04:24,401 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: or your sisters? Is this how women want to be 81 00:04:26,481 --> 00:04:29,001 Speaker 1: treated when they're out in the public. And I think 82 00:04:29,001 --> 00:04:32,121 Speaker 1: this is probably a daily occurrence for your guys and 83 00:04:32,201 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: girls on the transit system. 84 00:04:34,241 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, it is society in general. 85 00:04:36,201 --> 00:04:39,001 Speaker 5: It's not just transit obviously, but the public transport system 86 00:04:39,081 --> 00:04:43,361 Speaker 5: tends to bring a different cohort of people occasionally. And 87 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,561 Speaker 5: I think part of that is alcohol, because obviously we 88 00:04:47,081 --> 00:04:49,041 Speaker 5: sell the message not to drink drive, which is a 89 00:04:49,081 --> 00:04:52,521 Speaker 5: fair message so a lot of those intoxicated people get 90 00:04:52,561 --> 00:04:55,081 Speaker 5: on the trains, and of course that causes a bit 91 00:04:55,081 --> 00:04:58,601 Speaker 5: of an issue with that behavior and probably a little 92 00:04:58,601 --> 00:05:01,201 Speaker 5: bit off scope, but it was really disappointing. 93 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,441 Speaker 3: It was a Richmond supporter, Richard. 94 00:05:03,761 --> 00:05:06,761 Speaker 4: Supporter, Yes, you think my investigative skills. 95 00:05:06,801 --> 00:05:08,481 Speaker 1: I was going to say that, I think that they 96 00:05:08,601 --> 00:05:10,481 Speaker 1: played Gold Coast that day and they got a flogging. 97 00:05:11,001 --> 00:05:14,361 Speaker 1: So he was feeling entitled to be how he wanted to, 98 00:05:14,801 --> 00:05:18,041 Speaker 1: and it just gave me a snapshot. A lot of 99 00:05:18,121 --> 00:05:21,761 Speaker 1: women face this on the system and they put up 100 00:05:21,801 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: with it day in, day out. Most of them don't 101 00:05:23,521 --> 00:05:26,041 Speaker 1: say anything. And these ladies, one of them was actually 102 00:05:26,041 --> 00:05:29,841 Speaker 1: a train driver. Yeah, so she understood what to do 103 00:05:30,161 --> 00:05:32,361 Speaker 1: and she went up and pushed the alarm and things 104 00:05:32,401 --> 00:05:34,601 Speaker 1: worked exactly how they should. But for a lot of women, 105 00:05:34,601 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: that's a very negative experience that they're used to having. 106 00:05:37,001 --> 00:05:38,601 Speaker 5: Yeah, so I was going to speak about that. So 107 00:05:39,201 --> 00:05:41,441 Speaker 5: I'm glad that there was a person who understood the 108 00:05:41,481 --> 00:05:44,121 Speaker 5: system there with that call button which does go to 109 00:05:44,161 --> 00:05:47,121 Speaker 5: the driver. That's a message I'd like to share that 110 00:05:47,161 --> 00:05:50,681 Speaker 5: if you need assistance on the trains, triple O all 111 00:05:50,721 --> 00:05:54,841 Speaker 5: the button and when persos are working. The train driver 112 00:05:54,921 --> 00:05:58,681 Speaker 5: will contact our office. I get as an m emgency 113 00:05:59,201 --> 00:06:01,641 Speaker 5: management as an officer who works out of Publy Transport 114 00:06:01,641 --> 00:06:06,241 Speaker 5: Network and they contact us through Triple O VIC and we'll. 115 00:06:06,001 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 3: Attend to the station. 116 00:06:07,561 --> 00:06:10,961 Speaker 5: So one of the messages about that when we do 117 00:06:11,041 --> 00:06:14,041 Speaker 5: need to call, it's nice to know what train line 118 00:06:14,081 --> 00:06:17,001 Speaker 5: you're on. You know what time obviously what time it is, 119 00:06:17,001 --> 00:06:19,161 Speaker 5: but what carriage you're on as well, because it's important. 120 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,961 Speaker 5: Trains are six carriages long, some the longer, and it's 121 00:06:21,961 --> 00:06:24,721 Speaker 5: good for the PSOs, like on this occasion, to be 122 00:06:24,761 --> 00:06:28,161 Speaker 5: able to meet the train at the door and then 123 00:06:28,201 --> 00:06:30,521 Speaker 5: straight on they might be and be able to see 124 00:06:30,561 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 5: the offending still occurring, which is great for evidence. 125 00:06:33,681 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, this bloke, he got such a shock because 126 00:06:35,681 --> 00:06:38,201 Speaker 1: they came on the train, they went straight to him. 127 00:06:38,201 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: There was no establishing idea. It was him that was 128 00:06:40,641 --> 00:06:42,281 Speaker 1: the problem, and they dealt with them very well. And 129 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:44,721 Speaker 1: I think that it was just that sort of I 130 00:06:44,841 --> 00:06:48,041 Speaker 1: like to see in police, that quiet authority, not somebody 131 00:06:48,041 --> 00:06:49,961 Speaker 1: who comes in there trying to swagger in and try 132 00:06:50,001 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: to impose their personality. This is the force of the state, 133 00:06:53,601 --> 00:06:56,321 Speaker 1: you know. And your guys said to him listen number 134 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,441 Speaker 1: of complaints about you. I'm going to have to take 135 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,361 Speaker 1: you off the train now. If you behave yourself, you 136 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: might be able to get on the next train, but 137 00:07:02,161 --> 00:07:03,761 Speaker 1: you'll have to leave with us now. And they were 138 00:07:03,801 --> 00:07:06,841 Speaker 1: just they're just quietly insisted that that was the case, 139 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:08,481 Speaker 1: and he had no choice but to leave, and he 140 00:07:08,521 --> 00:07:10,721 Speaker 1: gave me a couple of sprays as he left. I 141 00:07:10,721 --> 00:07:13,241 Speaker 1: don't care, you know, but it brought home to me. 142 00:07:13,281 --> 00:07:14,801 Speaker 1: I mean, these are dangerous situations. 143 00:07:14,801 --> 00:07:14,961 Speaker 4: Though. 144 00:07:14,961 --> 00:07:17,321 Speaker 1: We've seen recently a young man who was actually murdered 145 00:07:17,321 --> 00:07:19,321 Speaker 1: on a train station at Munda when he. 146 00:07:19,281 --> 00:07:21,081 Speaker 4: Stepped in, not the way I did. 147 00:07:21,081 --> 00:07:23,321 Speaker 1: But this is a much different situation where there was 148 00:07:23,521 --> 00:07:25,481 Speaker 1: a theft going on and he ended up getting stabbed. 149 00:07:25,881 --> 00:07:28,401 Speaker 1: So I guess it gives me pause to think, well, 150 00:07:28,721 --> 00:07:31,121 Speaker 1: did I do the right thing? Should I be stepping 151 00:07:31,161 --> 00:07:33,681 Speaker 1: in like that? It wouldn't stop me doing it again, frankly, 152 00:07:33,761 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: but should I be doing that when there is another 153 00:07:35,721 --> 00:07:38,561 Speaker 1: way to push the distress button and get professional help. 154 00:07:38,881 --> 00:07:40,161 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a really good point. 155 00:07:40,641 --> 00:07:44,001 Speaker 5: We obviously don't advocate for people to intervene if it's 156 00:07:44,041 --> 00:07:48,401 Speaker 5: a dangerous situation. I think in your circumstance, you did 157 00:07:48,441 --> 00:07:51,321 Speaker 5: the right thing. It wasn't physical, it was just abuse. 158 00:07:52,081 --> 00:07:55,041 Speaker 5: He was wearing, you know, from a risk assessment point 159 00:07:55,081 --> 00:07:56,921 Speaker 5: of view, which you would have made without even thinking 160 00:07:56,921 --> 00:07:59,281 Speaker 5: about it, he was wearing a T shirt and shorts 161 00:07:59,681 --> 00:08:02,121 Speaker 5: to really know where where he could have a weapon. 162 00:08:02,721 --> 00:08:05,481 Speaker 5: I know you could secreate a weapon anywhere, but I 163 00:08:05,521 --> 00:08:09,521 Speaker 5: think the risk assessment was sound. But we obviously advocate 164 00:08:09,561 --> 00:08:13,121 Speaker 5: for people not to intervene, call triple O. Sometimes you 165 00:08:13,481 --> 00:08:16,201 Speaker 5: have to, and I think in this cubustantion it's the 166 00:08:16,321 --> 00:08:18,841 Speaker 5: right thing. And I won't say you got away with it, 167 00:08:18,881 --> 00:08:21,361 Speaker 5: but the outcome was positive. 168 00:08:21,641 --> 00:08:25,121 Speaker 1: Yes, his main weapons were bullshit and bad manners, fortunately 169 00:08:25,161 --> 00:08:27,561 Speaker 1: in this case, so I didn't think he was a threat, 170 00:08:27,601 --> 00:08:30,081 Speaker 1: but I mean it makes me think because we are 171 00:08:30,161 --> 00:08:33,641 Speaker 1: seeing an increasing level of hostility and violence on our 172 00:08:33,681 --> 00:08:37,281 Speaker 1: train system, and your guys and girls are the front 173 00:08:37,321 --> 00:08:40,641 Speaker 1: line now, and I think people can underestimate the threat 174 00:08:41,081 --> 00:08:45,001 Speaker 1: we've got. I think it's thirty two high risk stations 175 00:08:45,241 --> 00:08:49,601 Speaker 1: on the Victorian network now where incidents do happen, you 176 00:08:49,641 --> 00:08:52,801 Speaker 1: cover them there at Dandenong, Frankston, places like that. 177 00:08:53,241 --> 00:08:55,401 Speaker 4: What are the kinds of things that your guys are 178 00:08:55,401 --> 00:08:56,241 Speaker 4: seeing each day. 179 00:08:57,001 --> 00:08:59,241 Speaker 5: I think it's important to say or touch on the 180 00:08:59,321 --> 00:09:01,961 Speaker 5: role of the PERSO and their powers when they're on 181 00:09:02,001 --> 00:09:05,521 Speaker 5: the transport network or a designated area, which is effectively 182 00:09:05,881 --> 00:09:10,401 Speaker 5: for the transit PSOs it's a railway stations, adjacent car parks, 183 00:09:10,481 --> 00:09:12,881 Speaker 5: and if it's a bus hub or a shopping center 184 00:09:12,921 --> 00:09:15,561 Speaker 5: attached to the police to the railway station rather so 185 00:09:15,601 --> 00:09:18,081 Speaker 5: when they're in a designated area, they're exactly the same 186 00:09:18,121 --> 00:09:21,161 Speaker 5: powers as police. So a lot of the public see 187 00:09:21,201 --> 00:09:26,201 Speaker 5: protective service officer and think security guard. It's absolutely not 188 00:09:26,241 --> 00:09:28,401 Speaker 5: the fact that they get the same training as the police. 189 00:09:28,761 --> 00:09:31,081 Speaker 5: They do the same job as police on the network 190 00:09:31,601 --> 00:09:35,321 Speaker 5: and they have the same powers, so they can arrest 191 00:09:35,361 --> 00:09:38,201 Speaker 5: you and they can do exactly the same as what 192 00:09:38,241 --> 00:09:40,561 Speaker 5: a police officer does in the same secum tense. The 193 00:09:40,601 --> 00:09:45,041 Speaker 5: only thing that changes is PSOs don't process the offenders 194 00:09:45,321 --> 00:09:48,681 Speaker 5: apart from penalty notices. So if somebody is committing an offense, 195 00:09:48,721 --> 00:09:51,801 Speaker 5: they are arrested by the PSOs, held and hand it 196 00:09:51,881 --> 00:09:54,681 Speaker 5: over to police to do the investigation. Because under the Act, 197 00:09:54,681 --> 00:09:59,401 Speaker 5: they're investigating official chance the other party a question about 198 00:09:59,401 --> 00:10:04,241 Speaker 5: what they see. Everything you know from not having tickets, 199 00:10:04,441 --> 00:10:13,561 Speaker 5: anti social behavior, drunkenness, graffiti, weapons, assaults, assaults against PSOs. 200 00:10:14,241 --> 00:10:17,401 Speaker 5: When the arrest occurs, it's often it's not a one 201 00:10:17,441 --> 00:10:19,641 Speaker 5: way arrest. You know that people are always fighting for 202 00:10:19,681 --> 00:10:23,281 Speaker 5: their liberty, you name it, they're being involved. 203 00:10:23,721 --> 00:10:25,721 Speaker 1: And you mentioned weapons, which I think is a very 204 00:10:25,761 --> 00:10:29,761 Speaker 1: relevant thing for people now because we're hearing in Sydney 205 00:10:29,761 --> 00:10:33,001 Speaker 1: and Melbourne, probably other states as well, the capitals where 206 00:10:33,161 --> 00:10:34,961 Speaker 1: people are increasingly caringnized. 207 00:10:35,761 --> 00:10:37,121 Speaker 4: It's not a safe environment. 208 00:10:37,281 --> 00:10:39,641 Speaker 1: Even people may be carrying because they fear being attacked 209 00:10:39,681 --> 00:10:42,121 Speaker 1: by somebody else. So your guys have got to be 210 00:10:42,161 --> 00:10:45,481 Speaker 1: extremely careful as well, and you're attending to more of 211 00:10:45,521 --> 00:10:48,041 Speaker 1: these situations that you had a couple recently where some 212 00:10:48,081 --> 00:10:50,481 Speaker 1: pretty nasty looking weapons were confiscated. 213 00:10:50,881 --> 00:10:52,761 Speaker 5: I guess that's just part of the police training and 214 00:10:52,801 --> 00:10:56,721 Speaker 5: PERSO training that you always treat people as if they're 215 00:10:57,041 --> 00:11:01,481 Speaker 5: a threat. That's basically policing craft, I guess, and policing 216 00:11:01,481 --> 00:11:03,921 Speaker 5: and perso craft is the same sort of thing as 217 00:11:03,961 --> 00:11:06,801 Speaker 5: I said before. So whether or not there's more or less, 218 00:11:06,841 --> 00:11:09,761 Speaker 5: I couldn't say, but we certainly find them, and I'm 219 00:11:09,761 --> 00:11:12,041 Speaker 5: sure there's a cases where we don't, but we have 220 00:11:12,201 --> 00:11:16,361 Speaker 5: other operations that we run to find weapons, omni operations, 221 00:11:16,401 --> 00:11:21,121 Speaker 5: which is a specific legislation under the ConTroll of Weapons Act. 222 00:11:21,561 --> 00:11:24,241 Speaker 5: We have powers to search people for weapons if we 223 00:11:24,321 --> 00:11:27,281 Speaker 5: believe on reasonab grants that they're carrying. And we have 224 00:11:27,641 --> 00:11:32,441 Speaker 5: other operations occasionally like pad dogs, so a passive detection dog. 225 00:11:32,761 --> 00:11:35,721 Speaker 5: We ran an operation in Frankston just one or two 226 00:11:35,761 --> 00:11:39,801 Speaker 5: days ago. It was twelve thirty in the afternoon in Frankston, 227 00:11:39,841 --> 00:11:43,681 Speaker 5: went for a couple of hours, twelve arrests. Two people arrested, 228 00:11:44,041 --> 00:11:51,121 Speaker 5: were whereabouts, boughteing warrants, executed, four drug diversions, a caution notice, 229 00:11:51,201 --> 00:11:55,761 Speaker 5: three penalty notices, and a breach intervention order, and weapons 230 00:11:55,761 --> 00:11:59,641 Speaker 5: offenses and in fact the dog had to give up 231 00:11:59,681 --> 00:12:02,241 Speaker 5: because it was exhausted. They ll show you whatever the 232 00:12:02,281 --> 00:12:05,561 Speaker 5: dog was was exhausted because it is hard work for them. 233 00:12:05,561 --> 00:12:10,081 Speaker 5: So not only weapons, but alcohol and graffiti, implements, drugs, 234 00:12:10,081 --> 00:12:11,961 Speaker 5: all those sort of things that people carry on trains 235 00:12:11,961 --> 00:12:14,321 Speaker 5: that we have two operations in place to do that, 236 00:12:14,761 --> 00:12:17,201 Speaker 5: and it's a very short period of time that as 237 00:12:17,201 --> 00:12:18,961 Speaker 5: we mentioned Frankston busy place. 238 00:12:20,161 --> 00:12:21,641 Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's right, and I think what we were 239 00:12:21,641 --> 00:12:25,321 Speaker 1: also seeing anecdotally is that train stations and trains are 240 00:12:25,361 --> 00:12:29,241 Speaker 1: becoming part of gang territory. You're seeing people dealing drugs 241 00:12:29,241 --> 00:12:32,001 Speaker 1: through the transit system. You're seeing fest taking place that 242 00:12:32,241 --> 00:12:36,561 Speaker 1: train stations. So it's not the quiet kind of retirement 243 00:12:36,681 --> 00:12:40,041 Speaker 1: job security guard type role that people think it is 244 00:12:40,481 --> 00:12:41,321 Speaker 1: for the PSOs. 245 00:12:41,321 --> 00:12:44,601 Speaker 5: But I should point out that the network's very safe. 246 00:12:45,081 --> 00:12:48,001 Speaker 5: We do get incidents, but for the amount of communis 247 00:12:48,001 --> 00:12:49,881 Speaker 5: every day and I couldn't even say how many there are, 248 00:12:49,921 --> 00:12:53,841 Speaker 5: but the amount of commuter transits that transit through the 249 00:12:53,881 --> 00:12:58,241 Speaker 5: system every day, no incidence. It's just the occasional incidents 250 00:12:58,281 --> 00:13:01,361 Speaker 5: there and luckily where they're to intervene. 251 00:13:01,521 --> 00:13:04,041 Speaker 1: But you don't get a lot of love because, as 252 00:13:04,041 --> 00:13:06,521 Speaker 1: you say, most of these people get to their destination 253 00:13:06,601 --> 00:13:08,601 Speaker 1: of that incident. But it just takes one or two 254 00:13:08,601 --> 00:13:11,321 Speaker 1: things to happen. Was when the papers recently, someone was 255 00:13:11,401 --> 00:13:13,121 Speaker 1: hit by somebody and they went to push the button 256 00:13:13,161 --> 00:13:15,321 Speaker 1: and it didn't work, and that makes the age and 257 00:13:15,321 --> 00:13:17,921 Speaker 1: there's this sort of perception there must be a bit disheartening. 258 00:13:18,241 --> 00:13:20,721 Speaker 5: Yeah, look, it could be, but I think the other 259 00:13:20,761 --> 00:13:23,121 Speaker 5: part of it is you don't know what you don't know, 260 00:13:23,561 --> 00:13:26,881 Speaker 5: and the perception or just having the persos present and 261 00:13:26,881 --> 00:13:29,801 Speaker 5: that perception of safety for people, and what do you 262 00:13:29,881 --> 00:13:34,521 Speaker 5: deter by being on the platform. It's unmeasurable. So that's 263 00:13:34,681 --> 00:13:38,081 Speaker 5: what we're about. It's about being present, being there, being 264 00:13:38,121 --> 00:13:40,121 Speaker 5: on the trains. We are on the trains as much 265 00:13:40,121 --> 00:13:43,641 Speaker 5: as you're on platforms, and having that community confidence that 266 00:13:44,001 --> 00:13:46,401 Speaker 5: if I go to this station, there's PSOs there, and 267 00:13:46,561 --> 00:13:49,441 Speaker 5: often they escort people to the car park or they 268 00:13:49,521 --> 00:13:53,881 Speaker 5: just provide that safety. And I know anecdotally, even through family, 269 00:13:53,961 --> 00:13:56,521 Speaker 5: that I'll always go to that train station because I 270 00:13:56,561 --> 00:13:59,841 Speaker 5: know the PSOs there because once they escorted me to 271 00:13:59,921 --> 00:14:00,321 Speaker 5: my car. 272 00:14:01,001 --> 00:14:01,721 Speaker 4: That's a very good. 273 00:14:01,641 --> 00:14:03,081 Speaker 1: Point you make, actually, because I think a lot of 274 00:14:03,121 --> 00:14:06,121 Speaker 1: people yearn for the old days when there was enough 275 00:14:06,161 --> 00:14:08,481 Speaker 1: resources and staff and things for people to walk beats. 276 00:14:08,921 --> 00:14:11,041 Speaker 1: They would be seen in various areas, and that's not 277 00:14:11,161 --> 00:14:11,881 Speaker 1: possible anymore. 278 00:14:12,161 --> 00:14:12,601 Speaker 4: I get that. 279 00:14:13,121 --> 00:14:15,681 Speaker 1: But if you are seeing a pso you're seeing someone 280 00:14:15,761 --> 00:14:18,081 Speaker 1: in uniform with all the accouterments, I'm going to feel 281 00:14:18,081 --> 00:14:19,281 Speaker 1: safe and that's a good thing. 282 00:14:19,561 --> 00:14:19,761 Speaker 4: Yeah. 283 00:14:19,761 --> 00:14:21,681 Speaker 5: And one of the really good things about the PSOs 284 00:14:21,801 --> 00:14:25,761 Speaker 5: is from a distance the police, they wear a uniform 285 00:14:25,801 --> 00:14:28,801 Speaker 5: the same as police, so instead of the silver they 286 00:14:28,801 --> 00:14:31,921 Speaker 5: wear gold, they have protected Services the Victoria Police written on. 287 00:14:32,361 --> 00:14:34,761 Speaker 5: They are police and I think that the public should 288 00:14:35,121 --> 00:14:37,921 Speaker 5: treat them as police and respect them as police, which 289 00:14:38,241 --> 00:14:41,441 Speaker 5: doesn't always happen. Police don't always get respected as well, 290 00:14:41,481 --> 00:14:43,761 Speaker 5: to be fair, but that society isn't it. 291 00:14:43,961 --> 00:14:46,121 Speaker 1: Yeah, But I think, as I say, I think increasingly 292 00:14:46,161 --> 00:14:48,281 Speaker 1: that I mean, I think we saw fifteen percent increase 293 00:14:48,801 --> 00:14:52,281 Speaker 1: in crimes around train stations and on trains in the 294 00:14:52,321 --> 00:14:55,921 Speaker 1: last year. So it's a very important role in my opinion. 295 00:14:56,001 --> 00:14:58,081 Speaker 1: It's come home to me this whole thing. And also 296 00:14:58,121 --> 00:14:59,441 Speaker 1: when you look at how they kid it out, they 297 00:14:59,441 --> 00:15:01,641 Speaker 1: are police. They've got a gun, they've got a taser, 298 00:15:01,681 --> 00:15:03,521 Speaker 1: they've got oc spray, they've got a bat and they 299 00:15:03,521 --> 00:15:04,041 Speaker 1: got a torch. 300 00:15:05,161 --> 00:15:07,121 Speaker 4: Different the police, Well they're not. 301 00:15:07,201 --> 00:15:10,041 Speaker 5: It's just that extra legislative things that police have, your 302 00:15:10,161 --> 00:15:14,161 Speaker 5: Road Safety Act, family violence, crime investigation. 303 00:15:14,921 --> 00:15:15,841 Speaker 3: That part of policing. 304 00:15:15,881 --> 00:15:18,761 Speaker 5: The PSOs don't do because they are We have PSOs 305 00:15:18,801 --> 00:15:21,761 Speaker 5: in Protective Services Unit who do the courts, the shrine, 306 00:15:21,761 --> 00:15:24,801 Speaker 5: Government House, so they now fall under transit but they have 307 00:15:24,801 --> 00:15:28,401 Speaker 5: a different role to the transit PSOs, so they all 308 00:15:28,441 --> 00:15:31,001 Speaker 5: do the same training as you know. I'm sure through 309 00:15:31,001 --> 00:15:34,841 Speaker 5: your contacts and experience. We do our operational safety technics 310 00:15:34,881 --> 00:15:38,801 Speaker 5: training twice a year police. It's policing PSOs mixed. There's 311 00:15:38,841 --> 00:15:41,601 Speaker 5: not a special course for PSOs. Know you will do 312 00:15:41,681 --> 00:15:44,561 Speaker 5: it with the PSOs. We do the same firearms training, 313 00:15:44,641 --> 00:15:49,241 Speaker 5: same CD training or taser, same restraint control, all that 314 00:15:49,281 --> 00:15:49,761 Speaker 5: sort of thing. 315 00:15:49,801 --> 00:15:51,401 Speaker 3: So they are police. 316 00:15:51,761 --> 00:15:53,881 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're also seeing I think, around the world 317 00:15:54,361 --> 00:15:57,841 Speaker 1: more and more incidents of terrorism and other things hitting 318 00:15:57,961 --> 00:15:59,161 Speaker 1: the public transit system. 319 00:15:59,161 --> 00:16:00,081 Speaker 4: It's where people are. 320 00:16:00,961 --> 00:16:04,841 Speaker 1: So this is not a quiet, little back corner of 321 00:16:05,161 --> 00:16:07,081 Speaker 1: people who are beyond retirement age. 322 00:16:07,801 --> 00:16:10,441 Speaker 4: I do not that there isn't an age limit. I'm 323 00:16:10,481 --> 00:16:11,201 Speaker 4: becoming a bit. 324 00:16:11,081 --> 00:16:12,281 Speaker 3: Of or police officer. 325 00:16:12,441 --> 00:16:13,041 Speaker 4: Oh is that right? 326 00:16:13,081 --> 00:16:13,881 Speaker 3: No age limit. 327 00:16:14,041 --> 00:16:15,001 Speaker 4: I didn't realize that. 328 00:16:15,081 --> 00:16:18,561 Speaker 3: As long as you meet the entry requirements, we'll take you. 329 00:16:18,801 --> 00:16:20,201 Speaker 4: And how would you go now if you were joining 330 00:16:20,241 --> 00:16:21,441 Speaker 4: up short, I. 331 00:16:21,361 --> 00:16:22,681 Speaker 3: Think personally i'd go okay. 332 00:16:22,841 --> 00:16:26,681 Speaker 5: But look, the standards it's not the same as what 333 00:16:26,841 --> 00:16:29,201 Speaker 5: I joined in ninety three. At that time, the police 334 00:16:29,241 --> 00:16:32,561 Speaker 5: force hadn't really changed over an extended period. We had 335 00:16:33,161 --> 00:16:36,441 Speaker 5: fairly high physical standards to meet. They are a bit different, 336 00:16:36,481 --> 00:16:39,641 Speaker 5: but they're still there. Certainly, you've got to be healthy, 337 00:16:40,241 --> 00:16:43,561 Speaker 5: be able to meet the requirements. But it's not the same. 338 00:16:43,961 --> 00:16:45,921 Speaker 5: Society is not the same. We like to be across 339 00:16:45,961 --> 00:16:49,761 Speaker 5: a representation of society, so we have all different shaction 340 00:16:49,801 --> 00:16:50,641 Speaker 5: and size of police. 341 00:16:50,841 --> 00:16:52,721 Speaker 1: Well, that's right, and I think a certain level of 342 00:16:52,721 --> 00:16:55,881 Speaker 1: physical fitness is really important. I remember doing Oh Boy 343 00:16:55,961 --> 00:16:58,961 Speaker 1: back in then after the Silk Miller murders, because they're 344 00:16:59,001 --> 00:17:02,081 Speaker 1: talking about lowering the war the obstacle course and the 345 00:17:02,081 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: police academy. That was a big thing for women. They 346 00:17:04,201 --> 00:17:06,921 Speaker 1: weren't getting over it, so they did lower it and 347 00:17:07,041 --> 00:17:07,561 Speaker 1: I went and. 348 00:17:07,521 --> 00:17:10,241 Speaker 4: Did the course myself. I was a bit younger. They're 349 00:17:10,241 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 4: twenty years younger. I think I still go. 350 00:17:12,441 --> 00:17:17,201 Speaker 1: Okay, But that physical fitness is not negotiable, isn't It's 351 00:17:17,281 --> 00:17:17,961 Speaker 1: so true. 352 00:17:18,281 --> 00:17:20,921 Speaker 5: And the PSOs, to be fair, are on their feet 353 00:17:21,001 --> 00:17:24,721 Speaker 5: more than police. So they're on the platforms. They meet 354 00:17:24,761 --> 00:17:28,321 Speaker 5: every train or there's the expectations. Sometimes they can't because 355 00:17:28,360 --> 00:17:30,641 Speaker 5: they might be tied up doing something else, but they 356 00:17:30,681 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 5: meet the trains. They're walking up and down the railway 357 00:17:33,961 --> 00:17:36,521 Speaker 5: stations that are elevated, you know, they go up and down, 358 00:17:36,961 --> 00:17:40,281 Speaker 5: probably lift all the escalators, but they're up and down 359 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,321 Speaker 5: on the concourse to the platforms out to the car park, 360 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,281 Speaker 5: so they do a lot of kilometers per day. 361 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 3: I'm sure I've got to track them. Be interesting what 362 00:17:48,201 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 3: they do. 363 00:17:48,521 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 5: I'm sure someone wear smart watchers and know the steps, 364 00:17:52,721 --> 00:17:56,441 Speaker 5: so that in itself requires a physical fitness. 365 00:17:56,561 --> 00:17:57,801 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so absolutely. 366 00:17:57,801 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: It's critically important and I'd want my PSOs to be 367 00:18:01,321 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: fit and ready for action. I mean a lot of 368 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:08,961 Speaker 1: police officers to draw their firearm ever in their careers. 369 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:11,561 Speaker 1: It's a good day for everyone when that doesn't happen. 370 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,561 Speaker 1: But how often are you seeing the PSOs have to 371 00:18:14,681 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 1: draw a weapon? 372 00:18:16,001 --> 00:18:20,281 Speaker 5: A firearms rare, but there has been police shootings with 373 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:26,921 Speaker 5: psosso involved Taser or CD Often they get drawn as 374 00:18:26,961 --> 00:18:32,001 Speaker 5: an escalation of force, but deployed not often, but it 375 00:18:32,041 --> 00:18:35,561 Speaker 5: does occur here. So all the operational safety equipment we've 376 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:40,321 Speaker 5: got is used in an escalation of force. So depending 377 00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:44,241 Speaker 5: on force matches forced, doesn't it? Their best weapon is 378 00:18:44,281 --> 00:18:45,001 Speaker 5: their communication? 379 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,281 Speaker 1: How do you teach them because I think that's one 380 00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 1: criticism of modern police is that they don't talk to 381 00:18:49,681 --> 00:18:51,801 Speaker 1: people enough. They always make a point of talking to 382 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 1: police when I see them, just to sort of almost 383 00:18:53,761 --> 00:18:55,360 Speaker 1: as a journalist, I like to just sort of how 384 00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:56,721 Speaker 1: their communication. 385 00:18:56,321 --> 00:18:58,281 Speaker 4: Skills are some better than others. 386 00:18:58,801 --> 00:19:02,961 Speaker 1: Are you finding the training is improving because some people don't, 387 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:04,321 Speaker 1: it's not natural for them. 388 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:06,001 Speaker 4: How do you get over that? 389 00:19:06,921 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 3: Look, that's a really difficult question. 390 00:19:09,041 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 4: It's a good question. 391 00:19:10,801 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 5: I think that comes with experience and also matching the 392 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,561 Speaker 5: shifts with the right people. You learn from your peers. 393 00:19:17,521 --> 00:19:20,201 Speaker 5: Peer learning is one of the best ways to learn training. 394 00:19:20,281 --> 00:19:23,281 Speaker 5: They do thirteen weeks at the academy a PSO and 395 00:19:23,321 --> 00:19:26,041 Speaker 5: a police officer now does twenty five. So when you 396 00:19:26,041 --> 00:19:28,281 Speaker 5: think about those extra roles of police, it's a lot 397 00:19:28,281 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 5: of training for them to take in, and communication is 398 00:19:30,961 --> 00:19:34,961 Speaker 5: part of that. They do the practical exercises from day one. 399 00:19:35,041 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 5: They're engaging, they're speaking, they wear uniform to become that persona. 400 00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:44,321 Speaker 5: You probably find that PSOs probably engage with more people 401 00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 5: than police on a daily basis because there's more commuters. 402 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 5: Police are going from job to job. They attend at 403 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 5: somebody's house for whatever the job is, or they do this. 404 00:19:53,241 --> 00:19:57,241 Speaker 5: They do that, they're not always unfortunately, they're not always 405 00:19:57,281 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 5: walking up and down the streets and engaging like the 406 00:19:59,681 --> 00:20:04,241 Speaker 5: PSOs can. However, it was funny you mentioned before about 407 00:20:04,561 --> 00:20:08,281 Speaker 5: we don't have the opportunity to have foot patrols, so 408 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:12,321 Speaker 5: from time to time we have operations where we can 409 00:20:12,441 --> 00:20:16,521 Speaker 5: meet those objectives. And currently in Northwest Metro or the CBD, 410 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,481 Speaker 5: we've got Operation Harmony, which if you're in there in 411 00:20:19,521 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 5: the next weeks you'll see an increased presence of police 412 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,721 Speaker 5: and persos in the CBD to provide that community re assurance. 413 00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:29,321 Speaker 4: And why is that happening. 414 00:20:29,721 --> 00:20:34,201 Speaker 5: I think it's just a strategic way to prevent crime. 415 00:20:34,481 --> 00:20:38,321 Speaker 5: That's our role. A major role is protect life and property, 416 00:20:38,561 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 5: but it's prevention of crime. We don't know you mentioned earlier. 417 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,640 Speaker 5: We had a bit of a conversation earlier about carpet 418 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 5: shufflers and people in the Ivory Tower and all that 419 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 5: sort of thing. Actually planning, people are actually thinking about 420 00:20:49,681 --> 00:20:52,561 Speaker 5: ways we can do things better and this is one 421 00:20:52,561 --> 00:20:52,961 Speaker 5: of those. 422 00:20:54,441 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: One of my favorite police officers actually a Queensland office. 423 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,281 Speaker 1: He's now retired Chief Inspector Corey Allen, and he ran 424 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:01,961 Speaker 1: the Brisbane Watchhouse at a. 425 00:21:01,921 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 4: Time where it was. 426 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,321 Speaker 1: Very hectic up there and they were issuing a lot 427 00:21:06,321 --> 00:21:08,761 Speaker 1: of move on notices and there were people getting locked 428 00:21:08,801 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: up and all this kind of stuff. You know, his 429 00:21:10,001 --> 00:21:13,281 Speaker 1: attitude was to deesalate everything and get people to talk 430 00:21:13,321 --> 00:21:17,640 Speaker 1: to people dealing with whether they be prostitutes or homeless people, 431 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:18,921 Speaker 1: drug addicts. 432 00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 4: Understand who you're policing. 433 00:21:22,441 --> 00:21:24,521 Speaker 1: I think you're probably going to see the same faces 434 00:21:24,561 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 1: coming into train stations week after week, both commuters and 435 00:21:28,241 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: people who might cause trouble. And I think as a 436 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,801 Speaker 1: police officer, as a pso, learning to talk to people 437 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:35,721 Speaker 1: as the hardest thing. 438 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,801 Speaker 5: Yeah, And just like we've got good carpenters and bad carpenters, 439 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,281 Speaker 5: we've got good police pisos and I won't say bad, 440 00:21:42,281 --> 00:21:44,001 Speaker 5: but not as good. You know, some people are better 441 00:21:44,481 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 5: the whole gamut than others, but generally they're all Obviously 442 00:21:48,721 --> 00:21:51,321 Speaker 5: they can all do the job. It's interesting when you 443 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:56,360 Speaker 5: said that before about recognizing faces. So same people catch 444 00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:59,961 Speaker 5: the same network or the same train creatures a habit, 445 00:22:00,521 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 5: whether or not I can use this terminology. But crooks 446 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 5: catch trains as well, of course, and often more so 447 00:22:05,561 --> 00:22:09,561 Speaker 5: than Joe Public. So in one area, that of Transit 448 00:22:09,561 --> 00:22:12,801 Speaker 5: where I normally work in Transit North, there's a work 449 00:22:12,921 --> 00:22:15,961 Speaker 5: unit there that, since twenty twenty four, has arrested about 450 00:22:16,001 --> 00:22:21,401 Speaker 5: eight hundred and thirty people for whereabouts warrants and other 451 00:22:21,481 --> 00:22:25,281 Speaker 5: offending because they know the people and they know they 452 00:22:25,321 --> 00:22:28,001 Speaker 5: see you. We have it's no big secret, it's not 453 00:22:28,041 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 5: a state secret, but you know, we have daily circulars. 454 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 5: We have information intel holdings which show this person's got 455 00:22:34,441 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 5: a warrant or this person's got this, and PSOs see 456 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:42,041 Speaker 5: that they are very intel informed, and he catches the train. 457 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:47,201 Speaker 5: They have internal comms where they let people know this 458 00:22:47,241 --> 00:22:49,161 Speaker 5: person will be on that train or it will hang 459 00:22:49,201 --> 00:22:52,081 Speaker 5: around that station, and they scoop them up. And this 460 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 5: particular work unit really motivated and have eight hundred and 461 00:22:56,201 --> 00:22:59,241 Speaker 5: thirty around about I think it's probably not eight thirty 462 00:22:59,281 --> 00:23:02,681 Speaker 5: round figure, but in that Facila lot since twenty twenty four. 463 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:03,561 Speaker 4: Fantastic. 464 00:23:03,681 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, So they implement that strategy to really upskill the 465 00:23:07,441 --> 00:23:10,801 Speaker 5: PSOs because the other part to it. Sure, it's about 466 00:23:10,801 --> 00:23:14,761 Speaker 5: community safety, it's about public transport safety, but it's also 467 00:23:15,321 --> 00:23:18,281 Speaker 5: a very good breeding ground for police. So a PSO 468 00:23:18,761 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 5: can transfer to becoming a police officer. 469 00:23:21,561 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 4: How many do that? 470 00:23:22,721 --> 00:23:24,801 Speaker 5: Look, I couldn't give you the figures, but there's quite 471 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,001 Speaker 5: a few. It's called CQP, which is a constable Qualifying program. 472 00:23:29,281 --> 00:23:32,561 Speaker 5: There's some parameters around it, and I think they've got 473 00:23:32,561 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 5: to be a PSO for maybe twelve months or two years. 474 00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 5: I'm not really sure the exact figures on it or 475 00:23:38,441 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 5: the exact rules around it, but they basically go in, 476 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 5: they enter the academy into a squad at the level 477 00:23:45,961 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 5: which you're at, and then they do the rest of 478 00:23:48,241 --> 00:23:53,281 Speaker 5: the training and they become police officers. So it opens 479 00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:57,161 Speaker 5: up recruiting as well into PSOs. It's a great job 480 00:23:57,281 --> 00:24:01,041 Speaker 5: where currently don't have many vacancies because we have people 481 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 5: on the list to join, and as we know that 482 00:24:05,321 --> 00:24:08,961 Speaker 5: the employment market across the board is tough these days. 483 00:24:08,961 --> 00:24:11,801 Speaker 5: But we're looking for police, they're looking for recruits, but 484 00:24:12,561 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 5: in the PSO space, we've got quite a few on 485 00:24:15,561 --> 00:24:15,841 Speaker 5: the list. 486 00:24:15,921 --> 00:24:19,521 Speaker 3: Riadic hiring. Yeah, we're hurry, okay, h police as well. 487 00:24:20,001 --> 00:24:21,561 Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, you're looking at me. I'm not sure. 488 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,041 Speaker 1: I'm not sure my gang connections, I'd passed them past. 489 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,681 Speaker 3: The test actually mentioned no age liment, so no acum. 490 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think you could do better than me, frankly, 491 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: But I think also, I mean it's also about associations. 492 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,281 Speaker 1: I think i'd be fearing that the back of me 493 00:24:34,281 --> 00:24:36,041 Speaker 1: he's fan say, oh he used to talk to Carl 494 00:24:36,041 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: Williams and Benji Venuman then hang. 495 00:24:38,321 --> 00:24:40,481 Speaker 4: Out with Bike and they go, yeah, I'm not sure. 496 00:24:40,521 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 4: I'm not sure. We give him a gun, but. 497 00:24:43,721 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 5: Obviously have the screening processes. But it's quite rewarding to 498 00:24:47,961 --> 00:24:50,961 Speaker 5: see a pso get to that. It's not even the level, 499 00:24:50,961 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 5: it's that mindset that they now want to be police exactly. 500 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,321 Speaker 4: And you mentioned about crooks catching trains. It just reminds me. 501 00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:59,961 Speaker 1: One of the most interesting drug distribution system was Dennis Allen. 502 00:25:00,041 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: He was in Cremorn in Richmond and he would get 503 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,561 Speaker 1: people to catch the train and when he had a 504 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: buyer catch the train past his house and they would 505 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: lob the drugs out the window into his back garden 506 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 1: because he didn't want the drugs on the premises. So 507 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,401 Speaker 1: if there were PSOs back in those days, they would 508 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:15,801 Speaker 1: have caught them straight up. They would have seen the 509 00:25:15,801 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: same blokes getting the same train doing the same things. 510 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,601 Speaker 3: It didn't stop us pulling his house down. 511 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,801 Speaker 4: It didn't. You're old enough to remember that. 512 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,481 Speaker 1: And by the way, you've got a railway backgrounds, you're 513 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,281 Speaker 1: pretty well sented for this job. Yeah. 514 00:25:27,801 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 5: I'm from a railway family. My dad did probably fifty years. 515 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 5: My brother is still in the rail industry. My sister 516 00:25:33,721 --> 00:25:36,521 Speaker 5: was a station assistant at some stage, and I was 517 00:25:36,561 --> 00:25:39,361 Speaker 5: a tradesman. I started my apprenticeship and did a few 518 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,921 Speaker 5: years on the railways as well before I transitioned to police. 519 00:25:43,721 --> 00:25:45,761 Speaker 5: Just the excitement, I think at the time. I had 520 00:25:45,761 --> 00:25:48,561 Speaker 5: a few friends that had joined. I looked around and 521 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 5: saw other tradees. I was in the metal trades and 522 00:25:52,241 --> 00:25:55,321 Speaker 5: that was it. You become a tradesman. You're good at 523 00:25:55,321 --> 00:25:58,360 Speaker 5: your craft. I just wanted more and I've got it. 524 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,321 Speaker 5: As we mentioned, thirty three years, I've had a really 525 00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:04,561 Speaker 5: good career. Where have you worked, General, Judy, start off 526 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 5: like we all do. Then I was a crime investigator 527 00:26:08,201 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 5: and a local sea eyes, you know, we call them 528 00:26:10,721 --> 00:26:13,321 Speaker 5: divisional sea eyes. I never went to crime squads, but 529 00:26:13,921 --> 00:26:19,041 Speaker 5: then uniform sergeant in Metro and also rural ran police 530 00:26:19,041 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 5: stations as a sergeant of ran police stations in country 531 00:26:24,001 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 5: as a senior sergeant, which is a really rewarding part 532 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,001 Speaker 5: of the job. Being a senior sergeant in a country town, 533 00:26:30,321 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 5: you are a big influence on the community. So that 534 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 5: was really rewarding. And now I have moved into the 535 00:26:36,201 --> 00:26:41,561 Speaker 5: officer ranks. As an inspector and acting superintendent. So it's 536 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,041 Speaker 5: really been good to be that's a very general, I guess, 537 00:26:45,201 --> 00:26:46,321 Speaker 5: snapshot of my career. 538 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's always been until recently, forward facing, customer focused, 539 00:26:53,041 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: and I think that's what the PSO trade is all about, 540 00:26:56,321 --> 00:26:58,241 Speaker 1: and I think it's something that has I said before, 541 00:26:58,281 --> 00:27:01,761 Speaker 1: People welcome when they see a friendly face, like when 542 00:27:01,761 --> 00:27:03,761 Speaker 1: I got off the train. Actually after that incident, there's 543 00:27:03,761 --> 00:27:05,001 Speaker 1: a couple of PSOs there at Chelton. 544 00:27:05,281 --> 00:27:07,081 Speaker 5: I checked their running sheet and I saw that I'd 545 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,561 Speaker 5: spoken to you. Ye oh really, so when we reached 546 00:27:10,561 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 5: out to you after you put a Facebook post on 547 00:27:12,481 --> 00:27:14,481 Speaker 5: to be fair, that's the history of this, to thank 548 00:27:14,521 --> 00:27:17,041 Speaker 5: you for highlighting the good work, which is really important. 549 00:27:17,721 --> 00:27:19,561 Speaker 5: Then I tried to track down the incident and it 550 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 5: took me a little while because there's a lot of 551 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 5: PSOs on a network, there's a lot of public contacts. 552 00:27:24,521 --> 00:27:28,281 Speaker 5: And I tracked back from Cheltenham and I saw that 553 00:27:28,281 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 5: they'd spoken to you journalist and that you had highlighted 554 00:27:31,681 --> 00:27:33,241 Speaker 5: the work, and that led us to be able to 555 00:27:33,321 --> 00:27:35,841 Speaker 5: track back and to the extent that I was able 556 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 5: to watch the footage and I was really proud of 557 00:27:38,241 --> 00:27:38,881 Speaker 5: the work they did. 558 00:27:38,961 --> 00:27:40,561 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was good. I was I'm really pleased with 559 00:27:40,561 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 4: the high come action, you know. 560 00:27:42,001 --> 00:27:44,281 Speaker 1: I think it should give people confidence to believe in 561 00:27:44,321 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 1: this system and to call upon it, you know. And 562 00:27:46,441 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 1: it was nice. And I spoke to those two PSOs 563 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 1: at Shelton. I said, listen, I know there's a page 564 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:53,321 Speaker 1: for complaints, but is there a page for praise? 565 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,241 Speaker 4: You know, and you've reached out, you saved me the trouble. 566 00:27:56,321 --> 00:27:59,521 Speaker 6: Yeah, well there is. Actually it's the same page. It's compliments. 567 00:27:59,521 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 6: And that's what they said exactly. Yeah, they probably mostly 568 00:28:02,441 --> 00:28:04,761 Speaker 6: get complaints, but people should. I think it's also incoming 569 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,001 Speaker 6: upon people. We take this stuff for granted. 570 00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know. 571 00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:11,041 Speaker 1: And I'm doing a lot more public transport travel at 572 00:28:11,041 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 1: the moment because of petrol, so it's making me focus 573 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 1: on this. But people who are on the trains every day, 574 00:28:17,481 --> 00:28:19,961 Speaker 1: and they get this sense that if I can plain, 575 00:28:20,041 --> 00:28:22,961 Speaker 1: nothing's going to happen, or I'm going to be a problem, 576 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: or it's two minor. What's your message to people about 577 00:28:26,481 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: the kinds of complaints that they can reasonably put to 578 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,761 Speaker 1: the PSOs all complaints. 579 00:28:32,481 --> 00:28:36,921 Speaker 5: For me, I don't like to hear people say it's 580 00:28:36,961 --> 00:28:39,081 Speaker 5: not the way I like it or not, but I 581 00:28:39,161 --> 00:28:41,641 Speaker 5: never contacted a police because they're busy. We have to 582 00:28:41,721 --> 00:28:44,281 Speaker 5: be busy. That's our job. Our jobs to provide a service, 583 00:28:44,761 --> 00:28:48,521 Speaker 5: same as the PSOs. What's what seems minor for someone 584 00:28:49,121 --> 00:28:51,801 Speaker 5: may not be minor for someone else, So report it 585 00:28:51,841 --> 00:28:54,561 Speaker 5: through the methods. Before that, I'll mentioned you know, triple 586 00:28:54,601 --> 00:28:58,921 Speaker 5: O or the button on the train. If we're working, 587 00:28:59,121 --> 00:29:01,201 Speaker 5: we'll be there to help. And if the PSOs aren't working, 588 00:29:01,241 --> 00:29:04,401 Speaker 5: it's important to know as well, police can attend as well, 589 00:29:04,481 --> 00:29:07,841 Speaker 5: so your duties. Police from the regions will attend railway 590 00:29:07,881 --> 00:29:09,521 Speaker 5: stations for those jobs as well. 591 00:29:10,441 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: And I guess you also may find that if you 592 00:29:12,761 --> 00:29:16,041 Speaker 1: report somebody and there's camera footage of him, it might 593 00:29:16,041 --> 00:29:18,961 Speaker 1: be that he's got outstanding warrants, he's a serious crook. 594 00:29:19,361 --> 00:29:21,841 Speaker 1: You can actually be part of the solution rather than 595 00:29:21,841 --> 00:29:23,161 Speaker 1: the problem as people might perceive. 596 00:29:23,321 --> 00:29:23,521 Speaker 4: Yeah. 597 00:29:23,521 --> 00:29:28,041 Speaker 5: Absolutely, and again we've all stood on railway platforms. There 598 00:29:28,121 --> 00:29:30,921 Speaker 5: are cameras and we can access those. I don't know 599 00:29:31,001 --> 00:29:34,601 Speaker 5: that it deters a lot of people, people who are 600 00:29:34,601 --> 00:29:37,921 Speaker 5: going to commit crime, forget that, but it's a really 601 00:29:37,921 --> 00:29:41,121 Speaker 5: good resource for us to be able to track incidents. 602 00:29:41,241 --> 00:29:44,641 Speaker 1: Yeah, now, I don't want this to be a recruiting advertisement, 603 00:29:44,681 --> 00:29:48,121 Speaker 1: but when I noticed the pain conditions, it's pretty good. 604 00:29:48,521 --> 00:29:50,161 Speaker 1: You go to the academy, I they get seventy five 605 00:29:50,201 --> 00:29:53,321 Speaker 1: thousand to start, and then you see people getting over 606 00:29:53,361 --> 00:29:54,881 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand in the first. 607 00:29:54,641 --> 00:29:57,321 Speaker 4: Couple of years and they get like with it nine 608 00:29:57,361 --> 00:29:58,041 Speaker 4: weeks lead. 609 00:29:58,841 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's one of the It sounds a lot, and 610 00:30:01,561 --> 00:30:03,641 Speaker 5: it is a lot. But it's also like we don't 611 00:30:03,641 --> 00:30:06,361 Speaker 5: get the roster of days off like normal employee would get. 612 00:30:06,721 --> 00:30:10,281 Speaker 5: We have to work public holidays, we don't get extra 613 00:30:10,321 --> 00:30:12,961 Speaker 5: pay for public holidays, and we're shift workers, so we 614 00:30:13,041 --> 00:30:16,041 Speaker 5: get five weeks under an award anyway, but nine weeks. 615 00:30:16,281 --> 00:30:18,041 Speaker 5: A lot of people break it up into three lots 616 00:30:18,041 --> 00:30:21,761 Speaker 5: of three. It is a great entitlement for the police force. 617 00:30:22,281 --> 00:30:25,641 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I can't tell you the impact on that 618 00:30:25,721 --> 00:30:29,841 Speaker 1: train carriage after that guy was gone was just palpable. 619 00:30:30,201 --> 00:30:33,201 Speaker 1: It was like we can get on it without our evening. 620 00:30:33,241 --> 00:30:36,681 Speaker 1: And that's something that PSOs probably don't see, is the 621 00:30:36,721 --> 00:30:38,641 Speaker 1: piece that they bring in those situations. I want to 622 00:30:38,641 --> 00:30:41,321 Speaker 1: thank those guys again and thank you for filling us 623 00:30:41,321 --> 00:30:43,561 Speaker 1: in on what PSOs do. And I don't think I'll 624 00:30:43,601 --> 00:30:45,601 Speaker 1: be applying anytime soon. I did think about it for 625 00:30:45,681 --> 00:30:47,521 Speaker 1: a moment. I'm not sure I'll cut out for it, 626 00:30:47,601 --> 00:30:49,161 Speaker 1: but it was a lot to talk to you. 627 00:30:49,241 --> 00:30:52,201 Speaker 5: Shut yeah, thanks and look again, I thank you for 628 00:30:52,321 --> 00:30:54,521 Speaker 5: highlighting the good work and that's what sport to see today. 629 00:30:55,161 --> 00:30:57,081 Speaker 3: They do do a great job persos. 630 00:30:57,121 --> 00:31:00,161 Speaker 5: And if I could ask for one thing, and that 631 00:31:00,201 --> 00:31:02,601 Speaker 5: would be for the public to respect them for the 632 00:31:02,681 --> 00:31:03,161 Speaker 5: role they do. 633 00:31:08,521 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: That was Sean Halley, acting Superintendent in the Transit Safety 634 00:31:11,441 --> 00:31:15,121 Speaker 1: Division of the Northwest metro Region. I think the message 635 00:31:15,161 --> 00:31:18,041 Speaker 1: here is don't do what I did. Hit the button, 636 00:31:18,161 --> 00:31:20,961 Speaker 1: lead the knucklehead wrangling to the professionals. If you want 637 00:31:21,001 --> 00:31:23,121 Speaker 1: to explore the opportunities to serve as a PS, I'm 638 00:31:23,121 --> 00:31:25,281 Speaker 1: going to put some links in the show notes. If 639 00:31:25,321 --> 00:31:27,361 Speaker 1: you want to report a crime, please call crime Stoppers 640 00:31:27,401 --> 00:31:29,841 Speaker 1: one one hundred, triple three, triple zero, or you can 641 00:31:29,881 --> 00:31:32,041 Speaker 1: write an email to me at Adam Shanner writer at 642 00:31:32,081 --> 00:31:33,201 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. 643 00:31:33,201 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 4: This has been Adam shann for Real Crime. 644 00:31:34,961 --> 00:31:36,841 Speaker 1: If you've enjoyed today's episode as much as I have, 645 00:31:37,041 --> 00:31:40,641 Speaker 1: please subscribe, like, and share it for more independent crime journalism. 646 00:31:40,761 --> 00:31:41,601 Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.