1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: You can listen to the Front on your smart sneaker 2 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 1: every morning to hear the latest episode. Just say play 3 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: the news from the Australian. From the Australian, keears what's 4 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. It's Tuesday, September three. 5 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: Brittaney Higgins, barrister has accused Senator Linda Reynolds of siding 6 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: with an accused rapist and harassing a young woman who 7 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: had just tried to make Parliament a safer place to work. 8 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: That's in closing addresses in a defamation trial between Reynolds 9 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: and her former staff member. Reynolds accuses Higgins and her husband, 10 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: David Scharaz of deliberately setting out to destroy her reputation. 11 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: There's a feud between the Albaneze government and the Reserve Bank. 12 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: First Treasurer Jim Chalmers said interest rates were smashing the 13 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: economy and now Minister Matt Thistlethwaite has warned the bank 14 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: not to go too far, but the government says they're 15 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: not trying to pressure the RBA. All the details alive 16 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: now at the Australian dot Com. A concert pianists are 17 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: supposed to bring the drama, and boy did Jason Gillham 18 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: deliver for the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra, which is facing legal 19 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: threats from all directions over its handling of Gillem's decision 20 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: to make a pro Palestine statement on stage. In today's 21 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 1: story Why, the Orchestra's boss says she's been hung out 22 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: to drive. On a dark Sunday winter night in Melbourne, 23 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: in an intimate auditorium, a modest crowd just over one 24 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty people are listening to a piano performance. 25 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: The artist is Jason Gillham, a concert pianist in his 26 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: late thirties who arose from obscurity in country Queensland to 27 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: be celebrated around the world, particularly for his renditions of Beethoven. 28 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: And then Gilliam stands and introduces a piece that wasn't 29 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: on the advertised program, a work called Witness. Gilm tells 30 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: the audience it's in honor of Palestinian journalists killed in Gaza. 31 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 2: What Jason Gillim did was he spoke to the piece. 32 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 2: The piece was a late inclusion in the performance, and 33 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 2: he spoke to it by saying more than hundred journalists 34 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 2: had been killed in Gaza. He claimed that some had 35 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 2: been targeted assassinations by the Israelis, which of course would 36 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 2: be a war crime, and so he spoke to that 37 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 2: and then he played the piece. And the issue here 38 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 2: was that, obviously around Australia people have very different opinions 39 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: on Israel Hamas conflict in Gaza, and so for him 40 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 2: to say that on the concert stage offended some people 41 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 2: in the audience who thought they just came along for 42 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: a concert and didn't want to be fed someone's opinion 43 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: on the Gaza conflict. And that's where the controversy started. 44 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: And wow, has it been a controversy. This simple moment 45 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: before a microscopic audience, by comparison to the international concert 46 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: halls where the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra often performs, has left 47 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: the orchestra's reputation broken. They tried to fix it one way, 48 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: then fix it another way, and nothing has worked and 49 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: now everyone's lawyered up and nobody's giving an inch. 50 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 2: The MSO is the oldest orchestra in Australia, Claire, and 51 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 2: it really is a part of the cultural fabric of Melbourne. 52 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: It's very famous. It tours the world enormously high quality. 53 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: It really is one of Melbourne's most loved institutions, frankly, 54 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 2: and to see it now embroiled in such a very 55 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 2: vicious controversy is quite extraordinary. 56 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: And the thing is as other arts companies have found 57 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: themselves dragged by the ankles into the dark waters of drama. 58 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: Since Harmas's attack on Israel on October seven, the MSO 59 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: had really thought about how it could stay out of it. 60 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 2: Well, the MSO saw those complaints and what happened. To 61 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 2: go back a bit in December last year, the MSO 62 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 2: had had quite a few series of meetings saying what's 63 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: going to be the orchestra's position on the conflict in Gaza. 64 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 2: The orchestra actually in the past has supported some political issues. 65 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 2: It supported the Yes THO for the Voice referendum. It 66 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 2: supported gay marriage during that controversy, So the orchestra sometimes 67 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 2: does take positions. This time, the orchestra decided, the management 68 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 2: of the MSO decided, we're not going to take a 69 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 2: position on Gaza. We have Jewish employees, we have Muslim employees. 70 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 2: It's too divisive. We'll just be neutral, and they sent 71 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 2: that statement out to the subscribers. They also told musicians 72 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: representatives about it, so they did have a clear position 73 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 2: of neutrality. 74 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: themSo had watched as a similar drama engulfed the Sydney 75 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: Theater Company earlier this year, when actors decided to make 76 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: personal statements by wearing kefeirs, the traditional scarf of Palestine, 77 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: on stage. That sparked complaints from some members of the audience, 78 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: including members and allies of the Jewish community and those 79 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 1: who just didn't like the stage being used for a 80 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: political statement. The MSO was also worried about the reaction 81 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: of audiences and benefactors, including some Jewish donors, and alarmed 82 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: that Gillan was due to play again just four days later, and. 83 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: They decided the best thing, the safest path, was to 84 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 2: actually send a letter of apology to the people in 85 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 2: the audience, sorry that these political views were aired, and 86 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 2: that the pianist would not be appearing in the concert 87 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 2: on Thursday. 88 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: How did Jason Gillim react, Well, you can probably guess. 89 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 2: Jason Gillen was very upset by that. He thought it 90 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 2: was unfair, He thought it was a denial of his 91 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 2: rights of artistic expression. He was backed by the pro 92 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 2: Palestinian community, by activists who really sent a lot of 93 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 2: fairly savage messages to the MSO critical of the organization 94 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: and the union that represents the musicians. The Media and 95 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 2: Entertainment Arts Alliance also put out a statement saying that 96 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 2: it was very disappointed in the behavior of THESA. The 97 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 2: MISO suddenly found itself clear in the crosshairs I guess 98 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 2: of the Pro Palestinian movement. 99 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: So that was management's call. But the next day the 100 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: board members, who claim they hadn't been consulted crisis managers. 101 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 2: Well, the external consultants, actually advised for the MSO to 102 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 2: do a backflip. They were concerned that to not do 103 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 2: that would leave the next MSO concert and perhaps even 104 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: future ones at the mercy of pro Palestinian activists, and 105 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 2: I guess they had visions of audience members walking through 106 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: protests to get to the concert. But of course a 107 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 2: backflip would also engulf the organization in more controversy and 108 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 2: annoy the Jewish community, amongst others. And so what actually 109 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 2: happened was the next day the board they tried to 110 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 2: get the pianists to perform on the Thursday. He said no, 111 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 2: and then they canceled the concert entirely for security reasons, 112 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 2: but also most importantly quit out a statement saying that 113 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 2: his cancelation was done in error. And so there you go. 114 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 2: After just a few days, the MSO had annoyed everyone 115 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 2: on every side, and it also had a spectacular rift 116 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 2: between the management team. The management team is seven strong, Claire, 117 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: and it was a unanimous decision to agree to cancel 118 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 2: the pianist. The board, which is eleven members, came back 119 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: and totally overruled that decision. So what an extraordinary rift 120 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: in the middle of the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra. 121 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: Oh did you think this was the end? Not by 122 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: a long shot. We'll be back after this break with 123 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 1: the woman who lost her job in the midst of 124 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: all this drama. The best coverage of the arts, from 125 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: reviews to profiles and the juiciest news, is always at 126 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: the Australian dot com dot au. Join our subscribers to 127 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: make sure you've got all sides of the story. We'll 128 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: be back after this break. 129 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 3: The MSO is a great orchestra. It's a large organization 130 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 3: with about five hundred people. 131 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: This is Sophie Galay's She was the managing director of 132 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra. 133 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 3: They're entitled to their opinion, and actually artists are usually 134 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 3: very sensitive in our strong opinion. But because of that, 135 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 3: we have decided that we wouldn't discuss women their opinions, 136 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 3: and we've tried to provide for our audience a safe haven, 137 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 3: a platform where one can hear futreful music, where one 138 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 3: can be at peace and enjoy a wonderful evening. 139 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: Sophie Galays had led the response to the Jason Gillium situation, 140 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 1: but in August the board told her she was sacked. 141 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 2: It was reported that she resigned. She hadn't resigned. She 142 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 2: said she was terminated, and now she's exploring her legal options. Claim. 143 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 3: I believe it's been unfair of my job. I've lost 144 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 3: it and my repetation is in touters and now I 145 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 3: will have I believe quite a difficult time finding work 146 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 3: in the world of music, the world I love. 147 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: Sophie Glask says she's also been the target of abuse 148 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: online by people taking Jason Gillim's side. 149 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 3: I was violently priticized for being a woman, for having 150 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 3: short hair, about my accent, and terrible words were used 151 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 3: against me. I feel like praticularly. 152 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 2: Gott it, so in fact, who've got a strange situation 153 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 2: now where the MSO has toughened us rhetoric against Jason 154 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 2: Gillum to the point where it looks very much like 155 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 2: the original position that Sophie Delay is the sacked managing 156 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 2: director took on the first day. So it's a mess 157 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 2: that will require further unraveling up think Claire. 158 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: Ever since her mass fighters attacked Israeli civilians on October 159 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: seven and Israel's military began pounding Gaza shortly after, Cam 160 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: and our reporters of The Australian have been covering the 161 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: fallout around the world. So what does this moment tell us? 162 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,079 Speaker 2: The tentacles of this conflict over in the Middle East 163 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 2: are gone into almost every aspect of Australian society. Should 164 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 2: performers get on stage and speak their political views to 165 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 2: patrons who are coming to watch a performance which has 166 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 2: nothing to do with politics. That's really the nub of 167 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 2: the debate, and the fact that we see so much 168 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 2: passion on both sides here, I think just reflects the 169 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 2: fact that this is such a potent and devisive issue 170 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 2: across Australian society. 171 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: Cameron Stewart is the Australian's Chief International correspondent. Thanks for 172 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: joining us on the front. We'll be back right here tomorrow.