Speaker 1: From Sworts Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am.
Speaker 1: When the latest report on Closing the Gap was released.
Speaker 1: The results were grim. Only five of the nineteen targets
Speaker 1: are on track and Indigenous incarceration rates are rising. But
Speaker 1: it's the policy itself part of the problem. Critics like
Speaker 1: Senator Lydia Thorpe say Closing the Gap hasn't delivered change
Speaker 1: and should be scrapped. Meanwhile, Minister for Indigenous Australians Mellendarie
Speaker 1: McCarthy has announced hundreds of millions in new spending, including
Speaker 1: major investments in remote communities and cheaper grocery prices in
Speaker 1: the Northern Territory. Today, Minister Melandary McCarthy on whether Closing
Speaker 1: the Gap is still working. It's Tuesday, February twenty five. Minister,
Speaker 1: welcome to seven am.
Speaker 2: Hello Daniel, lovely to be here and hello to all
Speaker 2: your listeners.
Speaker 1: You took on the Indigenous Affairs portfolio in July last
Speaker 1: year when your predecessor, Linda Bernie stepped down, and this
Speaker 1: was of course not long after the country voted resemblingly
Speaker 1: against a Voice to Parliament. What was it like for
Speaker 1: you to step into that role at that particular moment.
Speaker 2: Well, it was certainly an absolute honor to be able
Speaker 2: to step into the role Daniel, especially when I'd worked
Speaker 2: so closely with Linda Bernie. It's of course was difficult
Speaker 2: with the outcome of the referendum, that I was fairly
Speaker 2: realistic in the sense that the Australian people have voted
Speaker 2: and their decision was no as disappointing as that might be.
Speaker 2: We accept the decision and my role was to actually
Speaker 2: move us on and forward and to keep reaching out
Speaker 2: to our communities and our First Nations families and remind
Speaker 2: ourselves so we're resilient people. We've had many disappointments over
Speaker 2: many centuries and we're still here and we're still very strong.
Speaker 2: And the first thing I wanted to do when I
Speaker 2: became Minister was to reach out to my opponents, especially
Speaker 2: those who were vehemently against the Yes vote, to invite
Speaker 2: them to rise above using Indigenous affairs as a political football.
Speaker 2: And that was a real focus for me and continues
Speaker 2: to be.
Speaker 3: Of you when you're supposed to hear about how Australia
Speaker 3: is closing the gap between the experiences and livelihoods of
Speaker 3: Indigenous and non Indigenous Australians. But you're here today that
Speaker 3: only five closing the Gap targets are on track.
Speaker 4: One target is to reduce the rate of Indigenous Australians
Speaker 4: held in incarceration by fifteen percent. Instead, that number is
Speaker 4: growing and experts say there needs to be greater focus
Speaker 4: on alternative justice.
Speaker 1: Minister, most of the closed the Gap targets are not
Speaker 1: on track. The rate of suicide amongst Indigenous Australians is increasing,
Speaker 1: the rate of children and out of home care is increasing.
Speaker 1: More Indigenous people are being sent to prison, and Indigenous
Speaker 1: Australians don't well before our time. You've been a member
Speaker 1: of Parliament in the territory, you've been a senator since
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. You spent time in these communities where these
Speaker 1: facts and figures are played out in real life. Why
Speaker 1: aren't we seeing change?
Speaker 2: We are seeing change, Daniel, We're just not seeing it
Speaker 2: at the pace that we'd like to see it at.
Speaker 2: And I do commend the Aboriginal community organizations across the
Speaker 2: country who are working with me to implement that change.
Speaker 2: In particular, the Aboriginal community medical services across the country
Speaker 2: have led the way in terms of local empowerment self
Speaker 2: determination to try and improve the lives of First Nations families.
Speaker 2: So we've got through the closing the gap. We have
Speaker 2: eighty members of the Coalition of Peaks who represent eight
Speaker 2: hundred Aboriginal and trrostrate or organizations across the country. That's
Speaker 2: a phenomenal number. They want the governments of each state
Speaker 2: and territory and the Commonwealth to move more quickly on
Speaker 2: assisting with the areas that they have already identified. The
Speaker 2: problems exactly what you've mentioned with the high rates of suicide.
Speaker 2: So our plan for twenty twenty five is to see
Speaker 2: more psychologists, Aboriginal trained psychologists in that area to be
Speaker 2: able to assist in subsidizing that. We've been able to
Speaker 2: put out five hundred Aboriginal health workers across the country
Speaker 2: and offer that in traineeships. There are over three hundred
Speaker 2: who've accepted that. We've been able to look at the
Speaker 2: First Nation's Children's Commissional role and establish that and that
Speaker 2: person is going to be very responsible for interacting with
Speaker 2: state and territories about the high rates of removal of
Speaker 2: our kids. It's just not good enough.
Speaker 1: What's it like to dedicate your life to this work
Speaker 1: and see some of these outcomes actually go backwards.
Speaker 2: I'm a very passionate person in terms of wanting to
Speaker 2: see the improvement for people whose lives are in poverty,
Speaker 2: and it largely happens to be First Nations families, but
Speaker 2: I'm mindful that there are ordinary strayans who are in
Speaker 2: exactly that same sense of poverty and wanting to rise
Speaker 2: above the despair. What I've found, Daniel, is a lot
Speaker 2: of this is working with the people where there are
Speaker 2: pockets of such goodness and hope and energy and enthusiasm.
Speaker 2: And I am determined to work with people where I
Speaker 2: can see we have got the runs on the board.
Speaker 2: I find often as I travel across the country that
Speaker 2: those people who are achieving, they are not recognized for
Speaker 2: the work they're doing. And if we can get behind
Speaker 2: the people who do have the answers, and they are
Speaker 2: largely our Aboriginal community organizations, largely our Aboriginal elders, they
Speaker 2: know the answers and the solutions to a lot of
Speaker 2: these problems and we must get behind them. And that
Speaker 2: is the approach I take in wanting to improve the
Speaker 2: lives for First Nations families across Australia.
Speaker 1: Is the disadvantage that original people are facing across the country.
Speaker 1: Is that a class issue as much as it is
Speaker 1: a race issue.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a poverty issue, isn't it. Really If you
Speaker 2: look at the issues that people ask for. They want
Speaker 2: good homes, they want houses to live in. They want
Speaker 2: to be able to have a job that they can
Speaker 2: get up and go to and feel respected, that there's
Speaker 2: dignity in the work that they do, and that they're
Speaker 2: paid at a rate that they can afford to look
Speaker 2: after their families, that they have long service leave, superannuation,
Speaker 2: holiday pay. This is important to me and I have
Speaker 2: been trying to roll out a thousand jobs in the
Speaker 2: ranger space, seven hundred and seventy identify positions for First
Speaker 2: Nations women. But I want to see through the remote
Speaker 2: jobs program Daniel, the rolling out of three thousand jobs.
Speaker 2: I've been talking to workers in Kunnanarah, the is Kimberly
Speaker 2: and then in Central Australia around the town camps. They
Speaker 2: have been really really pleased with the rise in their
Speaker 2: pay and the fact that they have dignity in the
Speaker 2: workspace and the fact that they can look after their families.
Speaker 1: After the break. Why the Minister is spending hundreds of
Speaker 1: millions of dollars on more police.
Speaker 5: So this is about doing better. This funding will deliver
Speaker 5: essential services for remote communities, including policing, women's safety, children's health,
Speaker 5: education and alcohol harm reduction.
Speaker 1: Minsty you just announced a big package for remote communities
Speaker 1: eight hundred and forty two million dollars, but two hundred
Speaker 1: and five million of that is ear marked for policing
Speaker 1: in remote Northern Territory communities. The territory already has more
Speaker 1: police per capita than anywhere else in the Why do
Speaker 1: those communities need more police?
Speaker 2: I would look at that statistic in terms of more
Speaker 2: policing per capita. What I would say is this, Daniel,
Speaker 2: that when we have the largest case of family and
Speaker 2: domestic violence, largely here in the Northern Territory, the one
Speaker 2: thing I do get when I travel our communities is
Speaker 2: where are the police? Where is the support for our
Speaker 2: women and families? So I beg to differ there in
Speaker 2: terms of those statistics. And I know that there's been
Speaker 2: a large injection of police to Alice Springs. We've also
Speaker 2: had people from the police force in South Australia come
Speaker 2: up under the call of the Chief Minister of the
Speaker 2: Northern Territory. So I would say that the safety of
Speaker 2: women and children is paramount. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: the Commissioner of Police who at Gama last year apologized
Speaker 2: to First Nations families for the history of the police
Speaker 2: force relationship with Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory. Now
Speaker 2: I trust that that is a beginning, a new beginning
Speaker 2: under the Police Commissioner in terms of wanting to see
Speaker 2: more Aberiginal tristraight on the people in the police force
Speaker 2: to have a better understanding in terms of the many
Speaker 2: languages we have. It's an imperfect system and often a
Speaker 2: system that disappoints, but we cannot give up and we
Speaker 2: must not give up on wanting to ensure the safety
Speaker 2: of our families in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 1: What do you think is a good outcome from that
Speaker 1: investment and what do you think it's a good idea well.
Speaker 2: Community policing is something that I think has always been
Speaker 2: talked about when you do it at the local level,
Speaker 2: and there are many good examples across the country, not
Speaker 2: just here in the Northern Territory. When you do have
Speaker 2: community policing at the local level, where you have Aboriginal community,
Speaker 2: police officers involved, Aboriginal elders involved, working in a constructive way,
Speaker 2: then they make big differences in our community.
Speaker 1: I guess the concerned Minister is sort of in a
Speaker 1: recent Productivity Commission report and closing the gap is that
Speaker 1: there is a rise in the number of Indigenous children
Speaker 1: being jailed around the country. Are you concerned that more
Speaker 1: policing will lead to more children being locked up?
Speaker 2: I'm certainly concerned that we are seeing more youth going
Speaker 2: into correction centers across the country. I visited banks here
Speaker 2: in Western Australia in Perth to listen to the kids
Speaker 2: themselves and talk to me. You know, I've requested to
Speaker 2: go into the corrections here in the Northern Territory. It's
Speaker 2: important to me to work within our justice system and
Speaker 2: the Attorney General on how week of traveling with the
Speaker 2: Justice Reinvestment Section Daniel, I don't want to see the
Speaker 2: high incarceration rates keep rising. But when you have pieces
Speaker 2: of legislation in different jurisdictions, especially like here in the
Speaker 2: Northern Territory, that only have the outcome of prison, it
Speaker 2: is it's an incredibly, incredibly deeply worrying position. Yes, I
Speaker 2: am worried about that.
Speaker 1: You mentioned the Coalition of Peaks earlier on, which represents
Speaker 1: aboriginal organizations around the country, some eight hundred. They've stated
Speaker 1: that they're concerned that states and territories aren't taking closing
Speaker 1: the games seriously. Do you agree with that assessment.
Speaker 2: I had my first meeting with all the Indigenous Affairs
Speaker 2: ministers plus the Coalition of Peaks Daniel and we met
Speaker 2: in Perth in November. But I did raise, along with
Speaker 2: Pat Turner in Perth, that we had to look at
Speaker 2: the issue of remand and I task the Indigenous Affairs
Speaker 2: ministers to go back to their cabinets and look at
Speaker 2: the issue of remand in their jurisdictions. There were too
Speaker 2: many and still too many First Nations families individuals use
Speaker 2: in our remand, let alone in the corrections centers themselves.
Speaker 2: So that was one thing. And I would say that
Speaker 2: I've heard, to answer your question, heard what the Coalition
Speaker 2: of Peaks have said about the state and territory governments,
Speaker 2: which is why I've now begun my work closely with them.
Speaker 1: So since that meeting, though some states have passed more
Speaker 1: regressive policy when it comes to youth justice and holding
Speaker 1: more children in remand I mean, is that an alarming
Speaker 1: thing for you to hear? As Minister for Indigenous Australians.
Speaker 2: I'm very aware of the fact that each state and
Speaker 2: territory parliament makes their laws. What I can do in
Speaker 2: the purview that I have as Indigenous Affairs Minister is
Speaker 2: continually remind Indigenous Affairs ministers of their roles and responsibilities,
Speaker 2: but at the same time talk to my cabinet colleagues
Speaker 2: because Indigenous Affairs and the issue of closing the gap
Speaker 2: isn't just on Indigenous ministers. This has to be a
Speaker 2: collective responsibility of every single cabinet in every single Parliament
Speaker 2: of Australia, and I am very determined to make sure
Speaker 2: that every single cabinet in this country knows that.
Speaker 1: We recently had Senator Lydia Thorpe on the podcast and
Speaker 1: she argued that closing the gap targets should be scrapped altogether,
Speaker 1: that there are distraction and that nothing ever changes. What's
Speaker 1: your response to that.
Speaker 2: As I said, when I first came in as Minister,
Speaker 2: I invited across the Parliament as senators and members to
Speaker 2: join me to work on closing the gap. Senator Thorpe's
Speaker 2: been invited on those three occasions that we've held those
Speaker 2: meetings and has not attended. So it's disappointing that when
Speaker 2: there's an opportunity to actually be involved, to work collectively
Speaker 2: to put the pressure collectively on others, that that has
Speaker 2: not occurred. I still encourage Senator Thorpe to do that,
Speaker 2: but I certainly don't agree with dismissing eight hundred at
Speaker 2: least aboriginal organizations across this country and their request for
Speaker 2: us to get this right.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Daniel.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today, Opposition leader Peter Dunnan says
Speaker 1: the coalition will match Labour's pledge of an eight point
Speaker 1: five billion dollar boost to Medicare should they win the election,
Speaker 1: and revealed where he intends on getting the funds. A
Speaker 1: depressed conference in Brisbane yesterday, Dunton said he would cut
Speaker 1: thirty six thousand jobs from the public service and use
Speaker 1: the savings to boost medicare. The opposition leader expressed skepticism
Speaker 1: as to whether the plan would improve bulk billing rates,
Speaker 1: and the messaging app Telegram has been hit with a
Speaker 1: fine of nearly one million dollars from Australia's E Safety Commissioner.
Speaker 1: The platform failed to answer questions about how it is
Speaker 1: addressing child abuse and violent. Extremist material shared on the
Speaker 1: ecrypted messaging app Telegram was singled out by ASIO and
Speaker 1: the AFP for its use by young people looking to
Speaker 1: access extremist content. This has been seven a m. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening.