WEBVTT - Malarndirri McCarthy on closing the gap

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<v Speaker 1>From Sworts Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am.

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<v Speaker 1>When the latest report on Closing the Gap was released.

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<v Speaker 1>The results were grim. Only five of the nineteen targets

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<v Speaker 1>are on track and Indigenous incarceration rates are rising. But

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<v Speaker 1>it's the policy itself part of the problem. Critics like

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<v Speaker 1>Senator Lydia Thorpe say Closing the Gap hasn't delivered change

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<v Speaker 1>and should be scrapped. Meanwhile, Minister for Indigenous Australians Mellendarie

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<v Speaker 1>McCarthy has announced hundreds of millions in new spending, including

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<v Speaker 1>major investments in remote communities and cheaper grocery prices in

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<v Speaker 1>the Northern Territory. Today, Minister Melandary McCarthy on whether Closing

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<v Speaker 1>the Gap is still working. It's Tuesday, February twenty five. Minister,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to seven am.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello Daniel, lovely to be here and hello to all

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<v Speaker 2>your listeners.

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<v Speaker 1>You took on the Indigenous Affairs portfolio in July last

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<v Speaker 1>year when your predecessor, Linda Bernie stepped down, and this

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<v Speaker 1>was of course not long after the country voted resemblingly

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<v Speaker 1>against a Voice to Parliament. What was it like for

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<v Speaker 1>you to step into that role at that particular moment.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it was certainly an absolute honor to be able

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<v Speaker 2>to step into the role Daniel, especially when I'd worked

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<v Speaker 2>so closely with Linda Bernie. It's of course was difficult

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<v Speaker 2>with the outcome of the referendum, that I was fairly

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<v Speaker 2>realistic in the sense that the Australian people have voted

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<v Speaker 2>and their decision was no as disappointing as that might be.

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<v Speaker 2>We accept the decision and my role was to actually

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<v Speaker 2>move us on and forward and to keep reaching out

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<v Speaker 2>to our communities and our First Nations families and remind

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<v Speaker 2>ourselves so we're resilient people. We've had many disappointments over

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<v Speaker 2>many centuries and we're still here and we're still very strong.

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<v Speaker 2>And the first thing I wanted to do when I

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<v Speaker 2>became Minister was to reach out to my opponents, especially

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<v Speaker 2>those who were vehemently against the Yes vote, to invite

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<v Speaker 2>them to rise above using Indigenous affairs as a political football.

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<v Speaker 2>And that was a real focus for me and continues

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<v Speaker 2>to be.

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<v Speaker 3>Of you when you're supposed to hear about how Australia

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<v Speaker 3>is closing the gap between the experiences and livelihoods of

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<v Speaker 3>Indigenous and non Indigenous Australians. But you're here today that

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<v Speaker 3>only five closing the Gap targets are on track.

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<v Speaker 4>One target is to reduce the rate of Indigenous Australians

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<v Speaker 4>held in incarceration by fifteen percent. Instead, that number is

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<v Speaker 4>growing and experts say there needs to be greater focus

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<v Speaker 4>on alternative justice.

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<v Speaker 1>Minister, most of the closed the Gap targets are not

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<v Speaker 1>on track. The rate of suicide amongst Indigenous Australians is increasing,

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<v Speaker 1>the rate of children and out of home care is increasing.

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<v Speaker 1>More Indigenous people are being sent to prison, and Indigenous

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<v Speaker 1>Australians don't well before our time. You've been a member

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<v Speaker 1>of Parliament in the territory, you've been a senator since

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<v Speaker 1>twenty sixteen. You spent time in these communities where these

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<v Speaker 1>facts and figures are played out in real life. Why

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<v Speaker 1>aren't we seeing change?

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<v Speaker 2>We are seeing change, Daniel, We're just not seeing it

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<v Speaker 2>at the pace that we'd like to see it at.

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<v Speaker 2>And I do commend the Aboriginal community organizations across the

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<v Speaker 2>country who are working with me to implement that change.

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<v Speaker 2>In particular, the Aboriginal community medical services across the country

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<v Speaker 2>have led the way in terms of local empowerment self

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<v Speaker 2>determination to try and improve the lives of First Nations families.

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<v Speaker 2>So we've got through the closing the gap. We have

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<v Speaker 2>eighty members of the Coalition of Peaks who represent eight

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<v Speaker 2>hundred Aboriginal and trrostrate or organizations across the country. That's

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<v Speaker 2>a phenomenal number. They want the governments of each state

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<v Speaker 2>and territory and the Commonwealth to move more quickly on

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<v Speaker 2>assisting with the areas that they have already identified. The

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<v Speaker 2>problems exactly what you've mentioned with the high rates of suicide.

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<v Speaker 2>So our plan for twenty twenty five is to see

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<v Speaker 2>more psychologists, Aboriginal trained psychologists in that area to be

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<v Speaker 2>able to assist in subsidizing that. We've been able to

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<v Speaker 2>put out five hundred Aboriginal health workers across the country

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<v Speaker 2>and offer that in traineeships. There are over three hundred

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<v Speaker 2>who've accepted that. We've been able to look at the

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<v Speaker 2>First Nation's Children's Commissional role and establish that and that

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<v Speaker 2>person is going to be very responsible for interacting with

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<v Speaker 2>state and territories about the high rates of removal of

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<v Speaker 2>our kids. It's just not good enough.

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<v Speaker 1>What's it like to dedicate your life to this work

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<v Speaker 1>and see some of these outcomes actually go backwards.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a very passionate person in terms of wanting to

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<v Speaker 2>see the improvement for people whose lives are in poverty,

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<v Speaker 2>and it largely happens to be First Nations families, but

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<v Speaker 2>I'm mindful that there are ordinary strayans who are in

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<v Speaker 2>exactly that same sense of poverty and wanting to rise

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<v Speaker 2>above the despair. What I've found, Daniel, is a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of this is working with the people where there are

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<v Speaker 2>pockets of such goodness and hope and energy and enthusiasm.

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<v Speaker 2>And I am determined to work with people where I

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<v Speaker 2>can see we have got the runs on the board.

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<v Speaker 2>I find often as I travel across the country that

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<v Speaker 2>those people who are achieving, they are not recognized for

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<v Speaker 2>the work they're doing. And if we can get behind

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<v Speaker 2>the people who do have the answers, and they are

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<v Speaker 2>largely our Aboriginal community organizations, largely our Aboriginal elders, they

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<v Speaker 2>know the answers and the solutions to a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>these problems and we must get behind them. And that

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<v Speaker 2>is the approach I take in wanting to improve the

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<v Speaker 2>lives for First Nations families across Australia.

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<v Speaker 1>Is the disadvantage that original people are facing across the country.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that a class issue as much as it is

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<v Speaker 1>a race issue.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's a poverty issue, isn't it. Really If you

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<v Speaker 2>look at the issues that people ask for. They want

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<v Speaker 2>good homes, they want houses to live in. They want

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<v Speaker 2>to be able to have a job that they can

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<v Speaker 2>get up and go to and feel respected, that there's

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<v Speaker 2>dignity in the work that they do, and that they're

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<v Speaker 2>paid at a rate that they can afford to look

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<v Speaker 2>after their families, that they have long service leave, superannuation,

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<v Speaker 2>holiday pay. This is important to me and I have

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<v Speaker 2>been trying to roll out a thousand jobs in the

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<v Speaker 2>ranger space, seven hundred and seventy identify positions for First

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<v Speaker 2>Nations women. But I want to see through the remote

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<v Speaker 2>jobs program Daniel, the rolling out of three thousand jobs.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been talking to workers in Kunnanarah, the is Kimberly

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<v Speaker 2>and then in Central Australia around the town camps. They

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<v Speaker 2>have been really really pleased with the rise in their

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<v Speaker 2>pay and the fact that they have dignity in the

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<v Speaker 2>workspace and the fact that they can look after their families.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break. Why the Minister is spending hundreds of

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<v Speaker 1>millions of dollars on more police.

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<v Speaker 5>So this is about doing better. This funding will deliver

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<v Speaker 5>essential services for remote communities, including policing, women's safety, children's health,

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<v Speaker 5>education and alcohol harm reduction.

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<v Speaker 1>Minsty you just announced a big package for remote communities

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<v Speaker 1>eight hundred and forty two million dollars, but two hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and five million of that is ear marked for policing

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<v Speaker 1>in remote Northern Territory communities. The territory already has more

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<v Speaker 1>police per capita than anywhere else in the Why do

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<v Speaker 1>those communities need more police?

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<v Speaker 2>I would look at that statistic in terms of more

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<v Speaker 2>policing per capita. What I would say is this, Daniel,

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<v Speaker 2>that when we have the largest case of family and

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<v Speaker 2>domestic violence, largely here in the Northern Territory, the one

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<v Speaker 2>thing I do get when I travel our communities is

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<v Speaker 2>where are the police? Where is the support for our

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<v Speaker 2>women and families? So I beg to differ there in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of those statistics. And I know that there's been

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<v Speaker 2>a large injection of police to Alice Springs. We've also

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<v Speaker 2>had people from the police force in South Australia come

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<v Speaker 2>up under the call of the Chief Minister of the

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<v Speaker 2>Northern Territory. So I would say that the safety of

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<v Speaker 2>women and children is paramount. But at the same time,

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<v Speaker 2>the Commissioner of Police who at Gama last year apologized

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<v Speaker 2>to First Nations families for the history of the police

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<v Speaker 2>force relationship with Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory. Now

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<v Speaker 2>I trust that that is a beginning, a new beginning

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<v Speaker 2>under the Police Commissioner in terms of wanting to see

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<v Speaker 2>more Aberiginal tristraight on the people in the police force

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<v Speaker 2>to have a better understanding in terms of the many

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<v Speaker 2>languages we have. It's an imperfect system and often a

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<v Speaker 2>system that disappoints, but we cannot give up and we

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<v Speaker 2>must not give up on wanting to ensure the safety

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<v Speaker 2>of our families in the Northern Territory.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you think is a good outcome from that

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<v Speaker 1>investment and what do you think it's a good idea well.

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<v Speaker 2>Community policing is something that I think has always been

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<v Speaker 2>talked about when you do it at the local level,

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<v Speaker 2>and there are many good examples across the country, not

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<v Speaker 2>just here in the Northern Territory. When you do have

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<v Speaker 2>community policing at the local level, where you have Aboriginal community,

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<v Speaker 2>police officers involved, Aboriginal elders involved, working in a constructive way,

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<v Speaker 2>then they make big differences in our community.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess the concerned Minister is sort of in a

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<v Speaker 1>recent Productivity Commission report and closing the gap is that

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<v Speaker 1>there is a rise in the number of Indigenous children

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<v Speaker 1>being jailed around the country. Are you concerned that more

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<v Speaker 1>policing will lead to more children being locked up?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm certainly concerned that we are seeing more youth going

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<v Speaker 2>into correction centers across the country. I visited banks here

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<v Speaker 2>in Western Australia in Perth to listen to the kids

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<v Speaker 2>themselves and talk to me. You know, I've requested to

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<v Speaker 2>go into the corrections here in the Northern Territory. It's

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<v Speaker 2>important to me to work within our justice system and

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<v Speaker 2>the Attorney General on how week of traveling with the

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<v Speaker 2>Justice Reinvestment Section Daniel, I don't want to see the

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<v Speaker 2>high incarceration rates keep rising. But when you have pieces

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<v Speaker 2>of legislation in different jurisdictions, especially like here in the

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<v Speaker 2>Northern Territory, that only have the outcome of prison, it

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<v Speaker 2>is it's an incredibly, incredibly deeply worrying position. Yes, I

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<v Speaker 2>am worried about that.

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<v Speaker 1>You mentioned the Coalition of Peaks earlier on, which represents

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<v Speaker 1>aboriginal organizations around the country, some eight hundred. They've stated

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<v Speaker 1>that they're concerned that states and territories aren't taking closing

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<v Speaker 1>the games seriously. Do you agree with that assessment.

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<v Speaker 2>I had my first meeting with all the Indigenous Affairs

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<v Speaker 2>ministers plus the Coalition of Peaks Daniel and we met

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<v Speaker 2>in Perth in November. But I did raise, along with

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<v Speaker 2>Pat Turner in Perth, that we had to look at

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<v Speaker 2>the issue of remand and I task the Indigenous Affairs

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<v Speaker 2>ministers to go back to their cabinets and look at

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<v Speaker 2>the issue of remand in their jurisdictions. There were too

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<v Speaker 2>many and still too many First Nations families individuals use

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<v Speaker 2>in our remand, let alone in the corrections centers themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>So that was one thing. And I would say that

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<v Speaker 2>I've heard, to answer your question, heard what the Coalition

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<v Speaker 2>of Peaks have said about the state and territory governments,

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<v Speaker 2>which is why I've now begun my work closely with them.

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<v Speaker 1>So since that meeting, though some states have passed more

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<v Speaker 1>regressive policy when it comes to youth justice and holding

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<v Speaker 1>more children in remand I mean, is that an alarming

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<v Speaker 1>thing for you to hear? As Minister for Indigenous Australians.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm very aware of the fact that each state and

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<v Speaker 2>territory parliament makes their laws. What I can do in

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<v Speaker 2>the purview that I have as Indigenous Affairs Minister is

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<v Speaker 2>continually remind Indigenous Affairs ministers of their roles and responsibilities,

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<v Speaker 2>but at the same time talk to my cabinet colleagues

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<v Speaker 2>because Indigenous Affairs and the issue of closing the gap

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<v Speaker 2>isn't just on Indigenous ministers. This has to be a

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<v Speaker 2>collective responsibility of every single cabinet in every single Parliament

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<v Speaker 2>of Australia, and I am very determined to make sure

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<v Speaker 2>that every single cabinet in this country knows that.

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<v Speaker 1>We recently had Senator Lydia Thorpe on the podcast and

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<v Speaker 1>she argued that closing the gap targets should be scrapped altogether,

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<v Speaker 1>that there are distraction and that nothing ever changes. What's

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<v Speaker 1>your response to that.

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<v Speaker 2>As I said, when I first came in as Minister,

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<v Speaker 2>I invited across the Parliament as senators and members to

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<v Speaker 2>join me to work on closing the gap. Senator Thorpe's

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<v Speaker 2>been invited on those three occasions that we've held those

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<v Speaker 2>meetings and has not attended. So it's disappointing that when

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<v Speaker 2>there's an opportunity to actually be involved, to work collectively

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<v Speaker 2>to put the pressure collectively on others, that that has

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<v Speaker 2>not occurred. I still encourage Senator Thorpe to do that,

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<v Speaker 2>but I certainly don't agree with dismissing eight hundred at

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<v Speaker 2>least aboriginal organizations across this country and their request for

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<v Speaker 2>us to get this right.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Daniel.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news today, Opposition leader Peter Dunnan says

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<v Speaker 1>the coalition will match Labour's pledge of an eight point

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<v Speaker 1>five billion dollar boost to Medicare should they win the election,

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<v Speaker 1>and revealed where he intends on getting the funds. A

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<v Speaker 1>depressed conference in Brisbane yesterday, Dunton said he would cut

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<v Speaker 1>thirty six thousand jobs from the public service and use

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<v Speaker 1>the savings to boost medicare. The opposition leader expressed skepticism

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<v Speaker 1>as to whether the plan would improve bulk billing rates,

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<v Speaker 1>and the messaging app Telegram has been hit with a

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<v Speaker 1>fine of nearly one million dollars from Australia's E Safety Commissioner.

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<v Speaker 1>The platform failed to answer questions about how it is

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<v Speaker 1>addressing child abuse and violent. Extremist material shared on the

0:14:56.560 --> 0:15:00.560
<v Speaker 1>ecrypted messaging app Telegram was singled out by ASIO and

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<v Speaker 1>the AFP for its use by young people looking to

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<v Speaker 1>access extremist content. This has been seven a m. Thanks

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<v Speaker 1>for listening.