Speaker 1: Approche production. It's July twenty seventeen, almost a year after
Speaker 1: Brittany Dwyer stabbed her granddad to death. In the courtroom
Speaker 1: is a brother, Ryan and his mum, but they aren't
Speaker 1: there to support their sister and daughter. They're there to
Speaker 1: see justice done for their grandfather and father, Robert. What
Speaker 1: was that like? You're in court hearing all of the details.
Speaker 2: Very surreal it sort of it makes you feel again
Speaker 2: like a bit like of an out of body experience.
Speaker 2: It was an open courtroom, so there was a lot
Speaker 2: of media there and also a lot of people that
Speaker 2: were just genuinely interested in the case. I think what
Speaker 2: was harder to see was Bernadette's parents were there and
Speaker 2: we met them for the first time, and they actually
Speaker 2: came up and apologized on behalf of their daughter. And
Speaker 2: you know, they were very emotional, as you can imagine,
Speaker 2: as was my mum.
Speaker 1: Do you remember what they said that.
Speaker 2: To go through what my mother has gone through is
Speaker 2: disturbing and so upsetting for somebody to ever have to
Speaker 2: go through. And they wanted to apologize for any part
Speaker 2: of what their daughter had done, for her part in everything. Obviously,
Speaker 2: there wasn't a lot of words spoken, It was more
Speaker 2: emotional tears. They hugged and I remember saying to Mom afterwards, like,
Speaker 2: how did that feel? And she's actually it was really
Speaker 2: nice because you have no idea what the parents of
Speaker 2: the other party are feeling. We certainly didn't have that
Speaker 2: same reception from Shelby's parents. They really just wanted to
Speaker 2: move on as fast and forget about it, where Bernadette's
Speaker 2: parents were well and truly upset and distraught by the
Speaker 2: whole thing as well.
Speaker 1: So the court case was the one we're referencing now,
Speaker 1: was the court case for Bernadette and for your sister.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the first initial one after charges had been had.
Speaker 1: That's right. And then the Shelby case had already been
Speaker 1: dealt with or was being dealt with, was being.
Speaker 2: Dealt with, but separately because it was being completely separated.
Speaker 1: To remove from the murder. It was more about the trespass. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the aggravated trespass. Yeah, your sister's in court in that
Speaker 1: first Do you make eye contact with her?
Speaker 2: She wouldn't, dare look up. I tried very hard to
Speaker 2: just start to get her attention. I guess I was
Speaker 2: sort of looking for some sort of sense of remorse,
Speaker 2: I guess accountability. But the whole time she came so
Speaker 2: we were already in the courtroom, we were sat down,
Speaker 2: we were at the back row actually, and to directly
Speaker 2: to my right and down I can see the dock,
Speaker 2: and I saw them lead Brittany out from the elevators
Speaker 2: at the back of the room and up into the docks.
Speaker 2: And the whole time she looked at the floor. Even
Speaker 2: when she then got sat in there and she had
Speaker 2: to stand up to be addressed by the judge, she
Speaker 2: still looked at the floor and just wouldn't once look up.
Speaker 1: And I'm guessing that first moment that she speaks, the
Speaker 1: question from the judge is how do you plead?
Speaker 2: And her words were guilty.
Speaker 1: That changes the outcome of everything. Now, really the brief
Speaker 1: of evidence that the police have is relevant, but it's
Speaker 1: really about her admission of guilt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it means that it didn't have to go to trial.
Speaker 2: There was going to be no other real court cases.
Speaker 2: There's no jury jury evolved involved. But it also the
Speaker 2: biggest thing defied to us that it happened, and to
Speaker 2: see the words come out of her mouth means, yeah,
Speaker 2: she did it.
Speaker 1: And Bernadette her co accused. She also pleaded guilty.
Speaker 2: She did ye similar sort of demeanor an attitude to
Speaker 2: Brittany as well. She did look up to see her parents,
Speaker 2: but it was a quick glance and then straight back
Speaker 2: down again.
Speaker 1: Are they sitting together in the same doc.
Speaker 2: No, they were separated. They came out at different times.
Speaker 1: Did you catch the eyes of Bernadette's parents? How were they.
Speaker 2: Destraw especially her mother? The poor woman just wept the
Speaker 2: whole time and her husband was just consoling her. I
Speaker 2: think for her, it was also shocking that, you know,
Speaker 2: the text messages got read out and some victim impact
Speaker 2: statements were read, and to hear the I guess the
Speaker 2: fact of what she actually had said in those text
Speaker 2: messages about doing it and going through with it. You know,
Speaker 2: I remember hearing her mum just sort of have a
Speaker 2: bit of a shrill, I guess is the way I
Speaker 2: would describe it. Not a scream, not really weeping, but
Speaker 2: just like hearing it. It was like she just got stabbed herself.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's quite awful.
Speaker 1: The victim impact statement. Your mum read one, and you
Speaker 1: also read one. Do you have that with you?
Speaker 3: I do?
Speaker 1: Would you read it for us?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I can exact, Okay, victim impact statement was a
Speaker 2: way to speak to the judge about how we felt
Speaker 2: about the situation, and I guess the impact it has
Speaker 2: had on our lives of Britney's actions, And essentially the
Speaker 2: judge then takes it in consideration and makes their decision
Speaker 2: around how long or what type of sentence they'll give
Speaker 2: to Brittany based on the impact that it's had on
Speaker 2: other people's lives.
Speaker 1: And what's probably also equally important is you're reading it
Speaker 1: in court while your sister's sitting in the dock. So
Speaker 1: although this is for the judge.
Speaker 2: It's to her.
Speaker 1: You're talking to her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, Tuesday, the twenty second of August twenty seventeen
Speaker 2: to the presiding Judge in the matter of burns and
Speaker 2: to wire, this is an impact statement of Ryan Whitwell.
Speaker 1: To Wire.
Speaker 2: August twenty sixteen will be a month I will never forget,
Speaker 2: no matter how hard I try. You would think that
Speaker 2: August being my month of birth would be a joyful occasion,
Speaker 2: but now it's a time of sorrow. My grandfather, Robert Whitwell,
Speaker 2: was a proud and giving family man, always went above
Speaker 2: and beyond for anyone who was in need. I'm proud
Speaker 2: of that I was able to have inherited those personality characteristics.
Speaker 2: I spend a lot of time with my grandfather and
Speaker 2: often traveled to Adelai to see him. Since this horrendous
Speaker 2: and vicious murder took place, I've struggled and battled with
Speaker 2: everyday tasks. Every morning I wake up and the first
Speaker 2: thought that hits my mind is were the last moments
Speaker 2: of my poor Poppa's life? When I should be waking
Speaker 2: up and thinking about what I'm eating for breakfast. The
Speaker 2: normality of life for me has dramatically changed. The media
Speaker 2: have made it unbearable and impossible to hide. I'm a
Speaker 2: prominent hotelier within Brisbane, which, now with this tragedy that
Speaker 2: looms over me, cast a shadow of the skills that
Speaker 2: should be looked upon, but now a hidden causing my
Speaker 2: career to be stagnant. Brittany, I was always your number
Speaker 2: one supporter and was always there for you, even given
Speaker 2: you a key to my partner and I is home,
Speaker 2: allowing you to also call this space yours. You've thrown
Speaker 2: this in my face. There were countless moments you could
Speaker 2: have come clean, but instead you chose to betray me
Speaker 2: your own brother. Since you and Miss Burns decided to
Speaker 2: viciously attack my pop up, I've suffered from painstaking anxiety
Speaker 2: attacks which now have caused me to be medicated. Ongoing
Speaker 2: my family life as I once knew it is dead.
Speaker 2: My mother and father have separated, moved out, and filing
Speaker 2: for divorce. I now have no sister who do I
Speaker 2: turn to now? Who supports me when I'm supporting the supporters.
Speaker 2: The upset and anguish that you've both cast upon the
Speaker 2: Whitwell and to whire families is unforgivable your honor, I
Speaker 2: asked that you apply maximum imprisonment terms upon these two women.
Speaker 2: I now every year when my birthday rolls around, have
Speaker 2: to relive the memory of this disastrous moment in my life.
Speaker 1: Ha haab? Was that to pen?
Speaker 2: I think I rewrote it many times. I feel like,
Speaker 2: when I think about how I wrote this, there was
Speaker 2: so many times where I would wake up one day
Speaker 2: and I felt differently about my sister to the point
Speaker 2: that I felt maybe a little bit more forgiveness and
Speaker 2: was like, you know, that's my sister. And then there's
Speaker 2: other days where you know, I pretty much just wanted
Speaker 2: her dad and I think maybe when I wrote this
Speaker 2: that was one of those days, because I reread this
Speaker 2: now and think that I was very harsh. I still
Speaker 2: feel that it stands true, but yeah, there's certainly a
Speaker 2: lot of emotion in it.
Speaker 1: How was it to read it in court? Were we
Speaker 1: looking at your sister?
Speaker 2: No, I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't look at her.
Speaker 2: I thought going in, I thought, totally, no problems, I'll
Speaker 2: be able to do that. And then when it actually
Speaker 2: got there on the day, I sort of just looked.
Speaker 2: I picked a blank space on the wall and just looked.
Speaker 1: There, your mum's this statement. We obviously won't read because
Speaker 1: it's your mums. But was the sentiment of that directed
Speaker 1: more to Brittany?
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely it was. I think nearly all of it
Speaker 2: was directed to Brittany. So was my father's. But neither
Speaker 2: one of them could bring themselves to read it in court.
Speaker 2: They had someone else read out for them.
Speaker 1: And was that sentiment why?
Speaker 2: Yeah? My dad's were certainly more why, and my mom's
Speaker 2: was more I can't believe you did this.
Speaker 4: The whole affair is, of course a tragedy on two fronts.
Speaker 4: The very same people who have been so badly damaged
Speaker 4: by the sudden and violent end to the life of
Speaker 4: mister Whitwell, who is greatly loved and respected, simply shattered
Speaker 4: by the fact that it was such a close member
Speaker 4: of the family you miss Dwyer, who so callously and
Speaker 4: brutally move him. One can hardly imagine the pain and
Speaker 4: distress your mother must be feeling having seen her father
Speaker 4: killed in this way by her own daughter.
Speaker 1: Ryan was so generous with sharing these deeply personal stories
Speaker 1: about how he felt about his sister and the feelings
Speaker 1: from the whole family. A victim impact statement is just
Speaker 1: that it's the impact that a crime has on the victim,
Speaker 1: but also those that were impacted, like Ryan and his family.
Speaker 1: Ryan suffered from mental health issues after what his sister did,
Speaker 1: and he shared that with me.
Speaker 2: I think the biggest things that I struggled with is
Speaker 2: with anxiety. I think it sort of laysed dormant in
Speaker 2: everybody in a way, and people know how to deal
Speaker 2: with it differently. And you know, there was probably always
Speaker 2: a part of me that was a little bit more hyperactive.
Speaker 2: I guess, you know, I'm not one to sit still
Speaker 2: very often, and you know, I'm always sort of twitching
Speaker 2: my leg or using my hands to speak or something
Speaker 2: like that. But with this happening with Brittany and then
Speaker 2: the media and you know, you would read online people's
Speaker 2: perception of my family without even knowing my family, it
Speaker 2: just unlocked this fear, I guess, and it escalated from
Speaker 2: what does people think about me? To then I can't
Speaker 2: do my job? And then health then started to really
Speaker 2: play into it. So my heart would raise and I
Speaker 2: would think that I'm having a heart attack, and then
Speaker 2: I would actually get pains and it would just manifest
Speaker 2: into all this other stuff, and I just found myself
Speaker 2: The only way I could pull myself back together was
Speaker 2: to lock myself in a toilet cubicle and sit on
Speaker 2: the floor. And this would just be in what was
Speaker 2: basic life prior. So I'd just be at work and
Speaker 2: have to deal with a customer complaint or something like that,
Speaker 2: and that'd be no biggie. Just the basic thing would
Speaker 2: set it off.
Speaker 1: What did it do to your own relationship?
Speaker 2: Made it very hard for Adam and I. I mean
Speaker 2: I became a very angry person, and that essentially jeopardized
Speaker 2: the relationship. We were together for ten years, We were
Speaker 2: engaged we were getting married, and about three months prior
Speaker 2: to the wedding we called it off because one, there
Speaker 2: was so much anxiety around my parents being together at
Speaker 2: the wedding and doing these things and having that family
Speaker 2: element all together, but then still being reminded that you
Speaker 2: know the reason why your sister's not here is because
Speaker 2: of everything that's happened. And then I wasn't coping with
Speaker 2: my anxiety well and therefore was just angry at everything.
Speaker 2: And I would fight with Adam my ex a lot
Speaker 2: and just open for things. And I remember one particular
Speaker 2: night I completely lee lost it at his parents, who
Speaker 2: are honestly the sweetest people, like they're the most loving
Speaker 2: people in the world, but and it just I couldn't
Speaker 2: control my own behaviors. And so since then, yeah, I
Speaker 2: have been have been medicated for it. How do you
Speaker 2: feel now, Yeah, I think you start to unlock a
Speaker 2: lot about how you truly felt in that time that
Speaker 2: you didn't realize. As it sort of said in that
Speaker 2: victim impact statement, you know who supports the supporters. My
Speaker 2: parents were canatonic. My dad's trying to ignore everything and
Speaker 2: pretend everything's sunky dory, and my mom's you know, suicidal,
Speaker 2: and I had to support both of them as much
Speaker 2: as I can and be the strong person. But then
Speaker 2: I found myself by pushing that way. I just bottled
Speaker 2: everything up, and yeah, I think once you start to
Speaker 2: unlock all of that, there was some very emotional therapy sessions.
Speaker 3: You know, when I look back at it now, it's
Speaker 3: such a blue I don't know how I got through
Speaker 3: it myself, but I'm sure it was my son being.
Speaker 5: There and my mum being there.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 3: There was days that I couldn't get out of bed.
Speaker 3: There was days that did I have a shower? Have
Speaker 3: I had a shower? You know, like it was just
Speaker 3: I don't know what happens. You go into this whirlwind
Speaker 3: of grief and shock and your poor brains just trying
Speaker 3: to do its best with all this information that that.
Speaker 5: You're getting, and.
Speaker 3: It's hard. I locked myself away. I know that.
Speaker 5: First of all, we.
Speaker 3: Had a property and so no one could really get
Speaker 3: to me then. And then after my marriage ended, I
Speaker 3: moved back under the Gold Coast to be closer with
Speaker 3: my mum and I had a unit and it was
Speaker 3: all security dates and everything to get in there because
Speaker 3: I did have media always leaving things in the letter
Speaker 3: box and trying to get in contact with me, And
Speaker 3: that was just the last thing that I wanted to
Speaker 3: do at that time, when I was still trying to
Speaker 3: wrap my mind around the information that I was getting
Speaker 3: and then living here and then caught date in Adelaide,
Speaker 3: so it'd fly down to Adelaide, and Yeah, the feeling
Speaker 3: of that gone back to Dad's house and just knowing
Speaker 3: everything that had gone on and that they had planned
Speaker 3: all this, and I just didn't realize how phobious she
Speaker 3: was and dark that she would be capable of murdering
Speaker 3: anyone alone in a family.
Speaker 4: Doctor Rayside is of the opinion that you have a
Speaker 4: mixed personality disorder with borderline and anti social traits. This
Speaker 4: is a longstanding maladaptive pattern of behaving and feeling with
Speaker 4: associated marked feelings of chronic depression alternating with rage, disturbance
Speaker 4: of self image and identity, disturbance in judgment, and difficulty
Speaker 4: establishing satisfying relationships with other people.
Speaker 1: Does that ring true?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: What about your sister what you saw?
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, I think you know, there was a time
Speaker 2: that as you were reading that made my mind go
Speaker 2: back and at the time I sort of just put
Speaker 2: it down to kids being kids. But there was things
Speaker 2: that she would do growing up that you're like, wow,
Speaker 2: that's like a pretty shit thing to do. Had the
Speaker 2: CD for example, and obviously she did not like the music,
Speaker 2: or she knew I liked it a lot. I was
Speaker 2: playing it a lot, and when I was out of
Speaker 2: my room, she grabbed it and just ran rocks over
Speaker 2: the CD, completely ripping it up, so I didn't have
Speaker 2: it anymore. And then there was another time where she
Speaker 2: chased me around the house with a knife. How will
Speaker 2: we I probably would have been thirteen maybe, so she's late. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: And I locked myself in the bathroom and like she
Speaker 2: was like flinging the knife around underneath the door, and
Speaker 2: you know, I look back at that now, going oh,
Speaker 2: But at the time, you know, I just thought she's.
Speaker 1: Been a little bitch, you know, but brother sister stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. You know, apparently that's not so common to do.
Speaker 1: Doctor also spoken by the judging courts that a person
Speaker 1: with such a disorder typically will experience a lifelong history
Speaker 1: of difficulties with relationships, unlawful behavior, impulsivity, irritability and anger,
Speaker 1: and failure to sustain consistent work.
Speaker 2: I had not heard that before, and a lot of
Speaker 2: it it does ring true. There's a lot of traits
Speaker 2: there that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, was there anything in court that was revealed that
Speaker 1: you didn't know about your sister or at least what
Speaker 1: she claimed, because there's some claims that I want to
Speaker 1: put to you in a second that probably I would
Speaker 1: think that you would have some thoughts on.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think the things that came up about the drug use,
Speaker 2: the excessive alcohol abuse, I should say, were definitely surprise.
Speaker 2: I think the biggest surprise to me, and certainly the
Speaker 2: most disturbing was the last minute, thrown out statement around
Speaker 2: my grandfather molesting when you grew up, which you know,
Speaker 2: was so disgusting. She said that she said that to
Speaker 2: one of the psychologists in I think actually to the doctor,
Speaker 2: and that is why she did it, which the court
Speaker 2: immediately was able to throw that claim out and said
Speaker 2: there is no evidence or proof to suggest anything of
Speaker 2: the sort.
Speaker 1: It's insidious that a man who was murdered in that
Speaker 1: way should have his reputation besmirched like this.
Speaker 2: This was a premeditated, pre planned, sociopathic killing. It was
Speaker 2: quite outrageous and really disgusting, to the point that when
Speaker 2: my dad was still in conversation with her and checking
Speaker 2: in on her. When that came out, he cut off
Speaker 2: all communication.
Speaker 1: Have you spoken to your sister or in letters about
Speaker 1: her claims about your granddad?
Speaker 2: I did, and I think this was actually one of
Speaker 2: the lives letters I wrote to her because I found
Speaker 2: the response unsettling and I didn't know if it was
Speaker 2: true or not. But I said, you know, how could
Speaker 2: you even say that, and like when do you think
Speaker 2: this would have even happened? And she replied, it did happen.
Speaker 2: You know, just because you think he's not that person
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that he's not and you know this happened
Speaker 2: during like primary school. I just sort of went, I
Speaker 2: don't even know how that can be true, because you
Speaker 2: were never even there, and he hasn't flown up in
Speaker 2: a long time because he's been his elderly. I then
Speaker 2: remembered I flashed for I can't remember if it was
Speaker 2: in the letters or we found a diary of Brittany's
Speaker 2: and she talks about being raped by a guy after
Speaker 2: school and this is during like high scholl and that
Speaker 2: he did things to her that she didn't want, and
Speaker 2: it sort of matched the timeframe she was talking about,
Speaker 2: and something that I spoke about with my psychologist was
Speaker 2: that if she was doing as many drugs as it
Speaker 2: said that she was, and with ice and all of that,
Speaker 2: that it could absolutely manipulate. She's putting that pain to
Speaker 2: the attachment of my grandfather to justify the end action.
Speaker 2: In her head, it did happen, and that that's why
Speaker 2: she did what she did. But the problem is the
Speaker 2: story's changed too many times, and.
Speaker 1: We want to state, although your grandad's no longer here,
Speaker 1: that everything in court, any evidence that was tendered, that
Speaker 1: was a possibility. He was thrown out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely was.
Speaker 1: In court. Your sister also told the doc that she
Speaker 1: alleges that she grew up in an abusive household. What
Speaker 1: do you think she meant by that, Well, you're in
Speaker 1: the same house.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I definitely don't think it was abusive. My
Speaker 2: parents were strict. If we did something wrong, we definitely
Speaker 2: knew about it. But I wouldn't say abusive at all.
Speaker 2: I think there was ways that she manipulated situations, especially
Speaker 2: during the process of speaking to the psychologists, and there
Speaker 2: was even in one of the letters that she wrote
Speaker 2: to me, she said that you know, oh, I said
Speaker 2: this because my lawyer suggested it would be good, something
Speaker 2: good to say, so I think in that scenario she
Speaker 2: would have gone, yep, I remember Ryan getting a smack
Speaker 2: because he did something wrong. I'm going to roll with that.
Speaker 1: I want to read the judges' comments on sentencing your sister,
Speaker 1: and primarily because they I think that draws some attention
Speaker 1: to a couple of things. The first what I'm reading
Speaker 1: here is that where the judge is deciding how long
Speaker 1: she's going to stand in jail, and so his second
Speaker 1: factor is that very early in the piece, your sister
Speaker 1: acknowledged her guilt, and more than that, she gave the
Speaker 1: police a full and frank, at times disarm.
Speaker 4: Rather naively frank accounts of all of your actions and thoughts.
Speaker 4: At one level, this demonstrates an acknowledgment of the wrongfulness
Speaker 4: of your conduct and is the first an essential step
Speaker 4: to change and rehabilitation. Nevertheless, and whilst giving you credit
Speaker 4: in that respect, on my reading of your statements to
Speaker 4: the police, I do have doubts as to whether you
Speaker 4: have any real understanding of how evil and abhorrent your
Speaker 4: conduct was. I accept that you knew that your conduct
Speaker 4: was wrongful, but I'm not confident that you have the
Speaker 4: emotional makeup or capacity to be truly contrivee.
Speaker 2: I know exactly what he means. There was a period
Speaker 2: where I did speak to her on the phone, and
Speaker 2: when my dad also experienced this when he went to
Speaker 2: visit her in jail. She was very flippant with some
Speaker 2: of the information that she said. It was very unsettling.
Speaker 2: It was very chilling how she was just able to yep,
Speaker 2: I did this and this and just say it so
Speaker 2: calmly and mutter of factly.
Speaker 1: Are we talking about the act of murder?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the way that she stabbed him, and
Speaker 2: the way she got the idea from. And then in this.
Speaker 1: Where did she get the idea from?
Speaker 2: She claims she got the idea to stab him from
Speaker 2: American horror story. But in the same breath as describing
Speaker 2: those actions should be like, oh, we had roast here
Speaker 2: last night in jail, So it's very chilling. It just
Speaker 2: seemed to add those two things together. It seems so off,
Speaker 2: like like sociopathic, no empathy.
Speaker 1: She really is disassociative when it comes too Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I killed him, but I had a roast last night.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think she knows what she did, but
Speaker 2: either just putting it at the back of the mind,
Speaker 2: being like, yeah, pre and post Brittany, right, well, yep,
Speaker 2: that's pre killing and post killing. This is my life
Speaker 2: now and that was my life before. And she can
Speaker 2: talk about them and the actions very independently of each other,
Speaker 2: and it's almost like it's two different people.
Speaker 1: Which is possibly why after stabbing your grandad she couldn't
Speaker 1: look at him while she stabbed him, while he was
Speaker 1: bleeding on the chair, she turned around and did the dishes.
Speaker 1: But that was just because there were dishes there.
Speaker 2: Yeap, and they needed to be done.
Speaker 1: That wasn't about covering up her tracks or anything.
Speaker 2: No, purely something to keep her hands busy.
Speaker 1: Do you think your sister was sorry? Is sorry?
Speaker 2: I think from the last time I spoke to her
Speaker 2: via the letters, No, she wasn't sorry. I don't think
Speaker 2: she was remorseful. You know, those words might have physically
Speaker 2: been there, but I contacts of the whole letters. No,
Speaker 2: I didn't feel that.
Speaker 3: You know, everyone says time heills will worn, and time is.
Speaker 5: A factor in a way, but it's more.
Speaker 3: That you learn to live with it in the beginning.
Speaker 3: It's like groundhog day. Every day you wake up and
Speaker 3: it's the same shock, Did that really happen?
Speaker 5: Did did that really happen? Every day? Over and over
Speaker 5: and over?
Speaker 3: And you know, it does get a little bit better
Speaker 3: after time. But I think it's more.
Speaker 5: That you learn to live with the heartache.
Speaker 3: That's how I explain it.
Speaker 5: I just have a heavy heart having to have lived
Speaker 5: with that, knowing that my daughter was capable of doing that,
Speaker 5: And the worst thing is thinking of my dad in
Speaker 5: the last couple of minutes, you know, and her in
Speaker 5: the kitchen and things like that.
Speaker 3: That really it's hard.
Speaker 1: In the next episode of My Sister the Murderer.
Speaker 7: It's always on my mind, But then the day comes
Speaker 7: and it's like a little bit easier than last year
Speaker 7: or the year before and things like that.
Speaker 6: But I miss having you in my life, Mum, and
Speaker 6: I need you to know that what I did torments
Speaker 6: me every day.
Speaker 5: And I do wonder what kind of person she is now.
Speaker 6: And I can't change anything that I've done. You are
Speaker 6: still my mother, and I honestly need you now more
Speaker 6: than ever.
Speaker 5: I want to get through.
Speaker 6: Every Christmas that goes by without hearing from you. Honestly
Speaker 6: is killing me inside.
Speaker 3: I sort of said, I really don't know what kind
Speaker 3: of mother that I could ever be to her again.
Speaker 5: I just I don't know.
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