WEBVTT - 6. Guilty! 0:00:05.921 --> 0:00:13.801 Approche production. It's July twenty seventeen, almost a year after 0:00:13.841 --> 0:00:18.081 Brittany Dwyer stabbed her granddad to death. In the courtroom 0:00:18.361 --> 0:00:24.601 is a brother, Ryan and his mum, but they aren't 0:00:24.601 --> 0:00:28.081 there to support their sister and daughter. They're there to 0:00:28.081 --> 0:00:34.400 see justice done for their grandfather and father, Robert. What 0:00:34.601 --> 0:00:43.641 was that like? You're in court hearing all of the details. 0:00:40.961 --> 0:00:45.961 Very surreal it sort of it makes you feel again 0:00:46.081 --> 0:00:48.840 like a bit like of an out of body experience. 0:00:49.241 --> 0:00:53.001 It was an open courtroom, so there was a lot 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:55.681 of media there and also a lot of people that 0:00:55.721 --> 0:00:59.721 were just genuinely interested in the case. I think what 0:00:59.961 --> 0:01:04.641 was harder to see was Bernadette's parents were there and 0:01:04.681 --> 0:01:07.561 we met them for the first time, and they actually 0:01:07.601 --> 0:01:11.720 came up and apologized on behalf of their daughter. And 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:16.081 you know, they were very emotional, as you can imagine, 0:01:16.721 --> 0:01:17.520 as was my mum. 0:01:17.681 --> 0:01:19.920 Do you remember what they said that. 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:25.961 To go through what my mother has gone through is 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.881 disturbing and so upsetting for somebody to ever have to 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:35.560 go through. And they wanted to apologize for any part 0:01:35.601 --> 0:01:39.681 of what their daughter had done, for her part in everything. Obviously, 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:42.681 there wasn't a lot of words spoken, It was more 0:01:43.121 --> 0:01:51.681 emotional tears. They hugged and I remember saying to Mom afterwards, like, 0:01:51.721 --> 0:01:53.800 how did that feel? And she's actually it was really 0:01:53.881 --> 0:01:57.801 nice because you have no idea what the parents of 0:01:57.881 --> 0:02:01.641 the other party are feeling. We certainly didn't have that 0:02:02.441 --> 0:02:07.161 same reception from Shelby's parents. They really just wanted to 0:02:07.241 --> 0:02:10.000 move on as fast and forget about it, where Bernadette's 0:02:10.001 --> 0:02:13.401 parents were well and truly upset and distraught by the 0:02:13.401 --> 0:02:14.121 whole thing as well. 0:02:14.481 --> 0:02:17.641 So the court case was the one we're referencing now, 0:02:17.881 --> 0:02:21.800 was the court case for Bernadette and for your sister. 0:02:22.041 --> 0:02:25.321 Yeah, the first initial one after charges had been had. 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:27.680 That's right. And then the Shelby case had already been 0:02:27.721 --> 0:02:30.400 dealt with or was being dealt with, was being. 0:02:30.201 --> 0:02:34.361 Dealt with, but separately because it was being completely separated. 0:02:33.841 --> 0:02:37.041 To remove from the murder. It was more about the trespass. Yeah, 0:02:37.761 --> 0:02:41.241 the aggravated trespass. Yeah, your sister's in court in that 0:02:41.321 --> 0:02:44.001 first Do you make eye contact with her? 0:02:44.561 --> 0:02:48.240 She wouldn't, dare look up. I tried very hard to 0:02:48.321 --> 0:02:52.481 just start to get her attention. I guess I was 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:58.401 sort of looking for some sort of sense of remorse, 0:02:58.641 --> 0:03:02.561 I guess accountability. But the whole time she came so 0:03:02.601 --> 0:03:07.121 we were already in the courtroom, we were sat down, 0:03:07.361 --> 0:03:11.601 we were at the back row actually, and to directly 0:03:11.641 --> 0:03:14.800 to my right and down I can see the dock, 0:03:15.601 --> 0:03:18.521 and I saw them lead Brittany out from the elevators 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:20.401 at the back of the room and up into the docks. 0:03:20.601 --> 0:03:23.481 And the whole time she looked at the floor. Even 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:25.481 when she then got sat in there and she had 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:28.761 to stand up to be addressed by the judge, she 0:03:28.841 --> 0:03:32.721 still looked at the floor and just wouldn't once look up. 0:03:33.161 --> 0:03:37.281 And I'm guessing that first moment that she speaks, the 0:03:37.401 --> 0:03:39.841 question from the judge is how do you plead? 0:03:40.801 --> 0:03:42.401 And her words were guilty. 0:03:43.561 --> 0:03:47.721 That changes the outcome of everything. Now, really the brief 0:03:47.721 --> 0:03:51.081 of evidence that the police have is relevant, but it's 0:03:51.161 --> 0:03:52.801 really about her admission of guilt. 0:03:53.561 --> 0:03:56.561 Yeah, it means that it didn't have to go to trial. 0:03:57.321 --> 0:03:59.841 There was going to be no other real court cases. 0:04:00.001 --> 0:04:04.161 There's no jury jury evolved involved. But it also the 0:04:04.201 --> 0:04:08.081 biggest thing defied to us that it happened, and to 0:04:08.121 --> 0:04:10.961 see the words come out of her mouth means, yeah, 0:04:13.041 --> 0:04:13.561 she did it. 0:04:13.921 --> 0:04:18.681 And Bernadette her co accused. She also pleaded guilty. 0:04:18.801 --> 0:04:25.601 She did ye similar sort of demeanor an attitude to 0:04:25.641 --> 0:04:29.401 Brittany as well. She did look up to see her parents, 0:04:30.721 --> 0:04:33.001 but it was a quick glance and then straight back 0:04:33.041 --> 0:04:33.601 down again. 0:04:36.801 --> 0:04:38.361 Are they sitting together in the same doc. 0:04:38.561 --> 0:04:41.801 No, they were separated. They came out at different times. 0:04:42.521 --> 0:04:47.880 Did you catch the eyes of Bernadette's parents? How were they. 0:04:50.361 --> 0:04:56.520 Destraw especially her mother? The poor woman just wept the 0:04:56.601 --> 0:05:00.841 whole time and her husband was just consoling her. I 0:05:00.841 --> 0:05:06.161 think for her, it was also shocking that, you know, 0:05:06.241 --> 0:05:10.201 the text messages got read out and some victim impact 0:05:10.201 --> 0:05:14.520 statements were read, and to hear the I guess the 0:05:14.601 --> 0:05:16.841 fact of what she actually had said in those text 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:20.200 messages about doing it and going through with it. You know, 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.320 I remember hearing her mum just sort of have a 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:26.361 bit of a shrill, I guess is the way I 0:05:26.361 --> 0:05:30.481 would describe it. Not a scream, not really weeping, but 0:05:30.601 --> 0:05:33.921 just like hearing it. It was like she just got stabbed herself. 0:05:35.201 --> 0:05:35.481 It was. 0:05:35.561 --> 0:05:36.601 Yeah, it's quite awful. 0:05:38.521 --> 0:05:41.801 The victim impact statement. Your mum read one, and you 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.801 also read one. Do you have that with you? 0:05:45.081 --> 0:05:45.320 I do? 0:05:46.161 --> 0:05:47.361 Would you read it for us? 0:05:47.641 --> 0:05:54.361 Yeah? I can exact, Okay, victim impact statement was a 0:05:54.481 --> 0:05:59.681 way to speak to the judge about how we felt 0:05:59.681 --> 0:06:02.441 about the situation, and I guess the impact it has 0:06:02.521 --> 0:06:07.281 had on our lives of Britney's actions, And essentially the 0:06:07.361 --> 0:06:11.001 judge then takes it in consideration and makes their decision 0:06:11.801 --> 0:06:15.441 around how long or what type of sentence they'll give 0:06:15.521 --> 0:06:18.921 to Brittany based on the impact that it's had on 0:06:18.921 --> 0:06:19.801 other people's lives. 0:06:19.961 --> 0:06:23.241 And what's probably also equally important is you're reading it 0:06:23.681 --> 0:06:27.281 in court while your sister's sitting in the dock. So 0:06:27.681 --> 0:06:30.401 although this is for the judge. 0:06:30.801 --> 0:06:31.441 It's to her. 0:06:32.081 --> 0:06:32.921 You're talking to her. 0:06:33.121 --> 0:06:39.361 Yeah, Okay, Tuesday, the twenty second of August twenty seventeen 0:06:39.681 --> 0:06:42.200 to the presiding Judge in the matter of burns and 0:06:42.281 --> 0:06:45.081 to wire, this is an impact statement of Ryan Whitwell. 0:06:45.161 --> 0:06:45.561 To Wire. 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.001 August twenty sixteen will be a month I will never forget, 0:06:50.041 --> 0:06:52.481 no matter how hard I try. You would think that 0:06:52.561 --> 0:06:55.520 August being my month of birth would be a joyful occasion, 0:06:55.601 --> 0:07:00.601 but now it's a time of sorrow. My grandfather, Robert Whitwell, 0:07:00.641 --> 0:07:03.801 was a proud and giving family man, always went above 0:07:03.841 --> 0:07:06.440 and beyond for anyone who was in need. I'm proud 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:10.721 of that I was able to have inherited those personality characteristics. 0:07:11.081 --> 0:07:13.001 I spend a lot of time with my grandfather and 0:07:13.081 --> 0:07:16.481 often traveled to Adelai to see him. Since this horrendous 0:07:16.481 --> 0:07:19.561 and vicious murder took place, I've struggled and battled with 0:07:19.601 --> 0:07:23.321 everyday tasks. Every morning I wake up and the first 0:07:23.321 --> 0:07:26.001 thought that hits my mind is were the last moments 0:07:26.001 --> 0:07:29.041 of my poor Poppa's life? When I should be waking 0:07:29.081 --> 0:07:32.201 up and thinking about what I'm eating for breakfast. The 0:07:32.241 --> 0:07:35.601 normality of life for me has dramatically changed. The media 0:07:35.641 --> 0:07:38.801 have made it unbearable and impossible to hide. I'm a 0:07:38.841 --> 0:07:42.241 prominent hotelier within Brisbane, which, now with this tragedy that 0:07:42.321 --> 0:07:44.841 looms over me, cast a shadow of the skills that 0:07:44.881 --> 0:07:47.521 should be looked upon, but now a hidden causing my 0:07:47.601 --> 0:07:51.321 career to be stagnant. Brittany, I was always your number 0:07:51.321 --> 0:07:54.201 one supporter and was always there for you, even given 0:07:54.281 --> 0:07:56.361 you a key to my partner and I his home, 0:07:56.481 --> 0:08:00.521 allowing you to also call this space yours. You've thrown 0:08:00.561 --> 0:08:04.921 this in my face. There were countless moments you could 0:08:04.921 --> 0:08:07.321 have come clean, but instead you chose to betray me 0:08:07.481 --> 0:08:11.121 your own brother. Since you and Miss Burns decided to 0:08:11.201 --> 0:08:14.961 viciously attack my pop up, I've suffered from painstaking anxiety 0:08:14.961 --> 0:08:17.641 attacks which now have caused me to be medicated. Ongoing 0:08:18.681 --> 0:08:21.241 my family life as I once knew it is dead. 0:08:22.761 --> 0:08:26.121 My mother and father have separated, moved out, and filing 0:08:26.161 --> 0:08:29.241 for divorce. I now have no sister who do I 0:08:29.281 --> 0:08:32.721 turn to now? Who supports me when I'm supporting the supporters. 0:08:34.121 --> 0:08:36.561 The upset and anguish that you've both cast upon the 0:08:36.561 --> 0:08:40.081 Whitwell and to whire families is unforgivable your honor, I 0:08:40.121 --> 0:08:43.281 asked that you apply maximum imprisonment terms upon these two women. 0:08:43.681 --> 0:08:46.481 I now every year when my birthday rolls around, have 0:08:46.561 --> 0:08:50.081 to relive the memory of this disastrous moment in my life. 0:08:54.841 --> 0:08:56.561 Ha haab? Was that to pen? 0:08:57.521 --> 0:09:00.921 I think I rewrote it many times. I feel like, 0:09:01.601 --> 0:09:04.641 when I think about how I wrote this, there was 0:09:04.721 --> 0:09:07.281 so many times where I would wake up one day 0:09:08.201 --> 0:09:11.481 and I felt differently about my sister to the point 0:09:11.521 --> 0:09:15.841 that I felt maybe a little bit more forgiveness and 0:09:16.081 --> 0:09:19.961 was like, you know, that's my sister. And then there's 0:09:20.001 --> 0:09:24.841 other days where you know, I pretty much just wanted 0:09:24.841 --> 0:09:27.241 her dad and I think maybe when I wrote this 0:09:27.321 --> 0:09:29.961 that was one of those days, because I reread this 0:09:30.081 --> 0:09:34.521 now and think that I was very harsh. I still 0:09:34.561 --> 0:09:37.961 feel that it stands true, but yeah, there's certainly a 0:09:37.961 --> 0:09:38.961 lot of emotion in it. 0:09:41.121 --> 0:09:44.361 How was it to read it in court? Were we 0:09:44.401 --> 0:09:45.161 looking at your sister? 0:09:45.401 --> 0:09:48.721 No, I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't look at her. 0:09:49.001 --> 0:09:53.041 I thought going in, I thought, totally, no problems, I'll 0:09:53.081 --> 0:09:55.481 be able to do that. And then when it actually 0:09:55.521 --> 0:09:58.961 got there on the day, I sort of just looked. 0:09:58.961 --> 0:10:02.561 I picked a blank space on the wall and just looked. 0:10:02.281 --> 0:10:09.121 There, your mum's this statement. We obviously won't read because 0:10:09.121 --> 0:10:13.601 it's your mums. But was the sentiment of that directed 0:10:13.641 --> 0:10:14.481 more to Brittany? 0:10:14.721 --> 0:10:19.681 Yeah, definitely it was. I think nearly all of it 0:10:19.801 --> 0:10:23.321 was directed to Brittany. So was my father's. But neither 0:10:23.361 --> 0:10:26.561 one of them could bring themselves to read it in court. 0:10:26.601 --> 0:10:28.161 They had someone else read out for them. 0:10:29.841 --> 0:10:31.841 And was that sentiment why? 0:10:33.761 --> 0:10:41.761 Yeah? My dad's were certainly more why, and my mom's 0:10:41.881 --> 0:10:44.601 was more I can't believe you did this. 0:10:46.441 --> 0:10:49.441 The whole affair is, of course a tragedy on two fronts. 0:10:49.961 --> 0:10:52.361 The very same people who have been so badly damaged 0:10:52.361 --> 0:10:54.841 by the sudden and violent end to the life of 0:10:54.841 --> 0:10:58.401 mister Whitwell, who is greatly loved and respected, simply shattered 0:10:58.401 --> 0:11:00.521 by the fact that it was such a close member 0:11:00.561 --> 0:11:04.321 of the family you miss Dwyer, who so callously and 0:11:04.361 --> 0:11:07.961 brutally move him. One can hardly imagine the pain and 0:11:08.001 --> 0:11:11.361 distress your mother must be feeling having seen her father 0:11:11.481 --> 0:11:14.561 killed in this way by her own daughter. 0:11:15.161 --> 0:11:18.521 Ryan was so generous with sharing these deeply personal stories 0:11:18.601 --> 0:11:21.801 about how he felt about his sister and the feelings 0:11:21.881 --> 0:11:25.641 from the whole family. A victim impact statement is just 0:11:25.761 --> 0:11:29.161 that it's the impact that a crime has on the victim, 0:11:29.641 --> 0:11:34.281 but also those that were impacted, like Ryan and his family. 0:11:35.441 --> 0:11:38.641 Ryan suffered from mental health issues after what his sister did, 0:11:39.201 --> 0:11:40.241 and he shared that with me. 0:11:43.641 --> 0:11:46.321 I think the biggest things that I struggled with is 0:11:46.681 --> 0:11:50.481 with anxiety. I think it sort of laysed dormant in 0:11:50.561 --> 0:11:53.601 everybody in a way, and people know how to deal 0:11:53.641 --> 0:11:58.881 with it differently. And you know, there was probably always 0:11:59.281 --> 0:12:02.321 a part of me that was a little bit more hyperactive. 0:12:02.401 --> 0:12:05.161 I guess, you know, I'm not one to sit still 0:12:05.321 --> 0:12:07.561 very often, and you know, I'm always sort of twitching 0:12:07.561 --> 0:12:09.801 my leg or using my hands to speak or something 0:12:09.841 --> 0:12:13.601 like that. But with this happening with Brittany and then 0:12:13.641 --> 0:12:18.001 the media and you know, you would read online people's 0:12:18.041 --> 0:12:21.801 perception of my family without even knowing my family, it 0:12:21.921 --> 0:12:28.081 just unlocked this fear, I guess, and it escalated from 0:12:28.281 --> 0:12:31.281 what does people think about me? To then I can't 0:12:31.321 --> 0:12:35.041 do my job? And then health then started to really 0:12:35.041 --> 0:12:37.481 play into it. So my heart would raise and I 0:12:37.481 --> 0:12:39.641 would think that I'm having a heart attack, and then 0:12:39.721 --> 0:12:43.001 I would actually get pains and it would just manifest 0:12:43.041 --> 0:12:46.401 into all this other stuff, and I just found myself 0:12:46.601 --> 0:12:50.081 The only way I could pull myself back together was 0:12:50.561 --> 0:12:53.481 to lock myself in a toilet cubicle and sit on 0:12:53.521 --> 0:12:56.201 the floor. And this would just be in what was 0:12:56.401 --> 0:12:59.681 basic life prior. So I'd just be at work and 0:12:59.961 --> 0:13:02.081 have to deal with a customer complaint or something like that, 0:13:02.121 --> 0:13:06.281 and that'd be no biggie. Just the basic thing would 0:13:06.321 --> 0:13:06.881 set it off. 0:13:07.401 --> 0:13:09.561 What did it do to your own relationship? 0:13:10.961 --> 0:13:15.161 Made it very hard for Adam and I. I mean 0:13:15.201 --> 0:13:20.401 I became a very angry person, and that essentially jeopardized 0:13:20.601 --> 0:13:23.241 the relationship. We were together for ten years, We were 0:13:23.281 --> 0:13:27.881 engaged we were getting married, and about three months prior 0:13:27.961 --> 0:13:31.921 to the wedding we called it off because one, there 0:13:32.001 --> 0:13:36.521 was so much anxiety around my parents being together at 0:13:36.561 --> 0:13:39.681 the wedding and doing these things and having that family 0:13:39.761 --> 0:13:43.521 element all together, but then still being reminded that you 0:13:43.561 --> 0:13:45.401 know the reason why your sister's not here is because 0:13:45.401 --> 0:13:49.161 of everything that's happened. And then I wasn't coping with 0:13:49.201 --> 0:13:53.841 my anxiety well and therefore was just angry at everything. 0:13:54.241 --> 0:14:00.161 And I would fight with Adam my ex a lot 0:14:00.841 --> 0:14:03.921 and just open for things. And I remember one particular 0:14:04.001 --> 0:14:08.521 night I completely lee lost it at his parents, who 0:14:08.561 --> 0:14:13.161 are honestly the sweetest people, like they're the most loving 0:14:13.241 --> 0:14:17.081 people in the world, but and it just I couldn't 0:14:17.081 --> 0:14:21.361 control my own behaviors. And so since then, yeah, I 0:14:21.401 --> 0:14:23.721 have been have been medicated for it. How do you 0:14:23.721 --> 0:14:26.321 feel now, Yeah, I think you start to unlock a 0:14:26.361 --> 0:14:30.161 lot about how you truly felt in that time that 0:14:30.201 --> 0:14:33.561 you didn't realize. As it sort of said in that 0:14:33.641 --> 0:14:37.441 victim impact statement, you know who supports the supporters. My 0:14:37.601 --> 0:14:42.241 parents were canatonic. My dad's trying to ignore everything and 0:14:42.281 --> 0:14:46.241 pretend everything's sunky dory, and my mom's you know, suicidal, 0:14:46.321 --> 0:14:50.361 and I had to support both of them as much 0:14:50.361 --> 0:14:53.801 as I can and be the strong person. But then 0:14:55.641 --> 0:14:59.601 I found myself by pushing that way. I just bottled 0:14:59.801 --> 0:15:03.281 everything up, and yeah, I think once you start to 0:15:03.361 --> 0:15:08.121 unlock all of that, there was some very emotional therapy sessions. 0:15:09.601 --> 0:15:12.041 You know, when I look back at it now, it's 0:15:12.121 --> 0:15:15.521 such a blue I don't know how I got through 0:15:15.561 --> 0:15:19.841 it myself, but I'm sure it was my son being. 0:15:19.681 --> 0:15:21.881 There and my mum being there. 0:15:22.281 --> 0:15:22.481 You know. 0:15:23.201 --> 0:15:25.641 There was days that I couldn't get out of bed. 0:15:25.921 --> 0:15:29.961 There was days that did I have a shower? Have 0:15:30.041 --> 0:15:32.161 I had a shower? You know, like it was just 0:15:32.961 --> 0:15:35.881 I don't know what happens. You go into this whirlwind 0:15:36.081 --> 0:15:41.641 of grief and shock and your poor brains just trying 0:15:41.681 --> 0:15:48.121 to do its best with all this information that that. 0:15:48.121 --> 0:15:49.321 You're getting, and. 0:15:50.961 --> 0:15:53.601 It's hard. I locked myself away. I know that. 0:15:56.041 --> 0:15:57.161 First of all, we. 0:15:57.241 --> 0:16:00.801 Had a property and so no one could really get 0:16:00.841 --> 0:16:04.081 to me then. And then after my marriage ended, I 0:16:04.281 --> 0:16:07.281 moved back under the Gold Coast to be closer with 0:16:07.401 --> 0:16:12.801 my mum and I had a unit and it was 0:16:12.841 --> 0:16:17.521 all security dates and everything to get in there because 0:16:17.561 --> 0:16:20.481 I did have media always leaving things in the letter 0:16:20.521 --> 0:16:22.761 box and trying to get in contact with me, And 0:16:23.161 --> 0:16:25.161 that was just the last thing that I wanted to 0:16:25.201 --> 0:16:27.401 do at that time, when I was still trying to 0:16:27.641 --> 0:16:32.201 wrap my mind around the information that I was getting 0:16:33.161 --> 0:16:40.081 and then living here and then caught date in Adelaide, 0:16:40.121 --> 0:16:47.841 so it'd fly down to Adelaide, and Yeah, the feeling 0:16:47.961 --> 0:16:52.281 of that gone back to Dad's house and just knowing 0:16:52.481 --> 0:16:56.281 everything that had gone on and that they had planned 0:16:56.321 --> 0:17:02.281 all this, and I just didn't realize how phobious she 0:17:02.681 --> 0:17:08.681 was and dark that she would be capable of murdering 0:17:08.721 --> 0:17:11.721 anyone alone in a family. 0:17:20.481 --> 0:17:22.401 Doctor Rayside is of the opinion that you have a 0:17:22.441 --> 0:17:27.121 mixed personality disorder with borderline and anti social traits. This 0:17:27.360 --> 0:17:32.041 is a longstanding maladaptive pattern of behaving and feeling with 0:17:32.201 --> 0:17:38.441 associated marked feelings of chronic depression alternating with rage, disturbance 0:17:38.481 --> 0:17:42.440 of self image and identity, disturbance in judgment, and difficulty 0:17:42.521 --> 0:17:45.480 establishing satisfying relationships with other people. 0:17:46.561 --> 0:17:47.801 Does that ring true? 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:48.640 Yeah? 0:17:48.801 --> 0:17:50.161 What about your sister what you saw? 0:17:50.561 --> 0:17:53.201 Yeah, definitely, I think you know, there was a time 0:17:53.961 --> 0:17:56.521 that as you were reading that made my mind go 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.321 back and at the time I sort of just put 0:17:58.360 --> 0:18:01.640 it down to kids being kids. But there was things 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:06.041 that she would do growing up that you're like, wow, 0:18:06.201 --> 0:18:08.880 that's like a pretty shit thing to do. Had the 0:18:09.001 --> 0:18:12.801 CD for example, and obviously she did not like the music, 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:14.600 or she knew I liked it a lot. I was 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.281 playing it a lot, and when I was out of 0:18:17.281 --> 0:18:21.600 my room, she grabbed it and just ran rocks over 0:18:22.041 --> 0:18:24.840 the CD, completely ripping it up, so I didn't have 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:28.120 it anymore. And then there was another time where she 0:18:28.241 --> 0:18:30.401 chased me around the house with a knife. How will 0:18:30.481 --> 0:18:36.920 we I probably would have been thirteen maybe, so she's late. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:37.481 --> 0:18:40.120 And I locked myself in the bathroom and like she 0:18:40.321 --> 0:18:44.240 was like flinging the knife around underneath the door, and 0:18:44.281 --> 0:18:47.241 you know, I look back at that now, going oh, 0:18:47.521 --> 0:18:50.801 But at the time, you know, I just thought she's. 0:18:50.681 --> 0:18:54.241 Been a little bitch, you know, but brother sister stuff. 0:18:54.321 --> 0:19:00.241 Yeah, exactly. You know, apparently that's not so common to do. 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:06.480 Doctor also spoken by the judging courts that a person 0:19:06.561 --> 0:19:10.120 with such a disorder typically will experience a lifelong history 0:19:10.120 --> 0:19:16.241 of difficulties with relationships, unlawful behavior, impulsivity, irritability and anger, 0:19:16.681 --> 0:19:19.160 and failure to sustain consistent work. 0:19:19.481 --> 0:19:22.360 I had not heard that before, and a lot of 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.201 it it does ring true. There's a lot of traits 0:19:25.241 --> 0:19:25.600 there that. 0:19:26.681 --> 0:19:30.200 Yeah, was there anything in court that was revealed that 0:19:30.481 --> 0:19:33.600 you didn't know about your sister or at least what 0:19:33.681 --> 0:19:35.480 she claimed, because there's some claims that I want to 0:19:35.481 --> 0:19:38.441 put to you in a second that probably I would 0:19:38.481 --> 0:19:40.281 think that you would have some thoughts on. 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:40.840 Yeah. 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.801 I think the things that came up about the drug use, 0:19:44.241 --> 0:19:49.401 the excessive alcohol abuse, I should say, were definitely surprise. 0:19:50.561 --> 0:19:55.440 I think the biggest surprise to me, and certainly the 0:19:55.481 --> 0:20:00.801 most disturbing was the last minute, thrown out statement around 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:08.001 my grandfather molesting when you grew up, which you know, 0:20:08.761 --> 0:20:12.400 was so disgusting. She said that she said that to 0:20:13.241 --> 0:20:17.400 one of the psychologists in I think actually to the doctor, 0:20:18.360 --> 0:20:22.640 and that is why she did it, which the court 0:20:22.681 --> 0:20:25.641 immediately was able to throw that claim out and said 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.440 there is no evidence or proof to suggest anything of 0:20:29.481 --> 0:20:29.880 the sort. 0:20:30.521 --> 0:20:32.880 It's insidious that a man who was murdered in that 0:20:33.001 --> 0:20:36.360 way should have his reputation besmirched like this. 0:20:36.360 --> 0:20:41.440 This was a premeditated, pre planned, sociopathic killing. It was 0:20:41.521 --> 0:20:45.521 quite outrageous and really disgusting, to the point that when 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:50.521 my dad was still in conversation with her and checking 0:20:50.521 --> 0:20:53.600 in on her. When that came out, he cut off 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:54.561 all communication. 0:20:54.961 --> 0:20:58.720 Have you spoken to your sister or in letters about 0:20:58.761 --> 0:21:00.121 her claims about your granddad? 0:21:00.201 --> 0:21:04.761 I did, and I think this was actually one of 0:21:04.761 --> 0:21:08.321 the lives letters I wrote to her because I found 0:21:08.721 --> 0:21:14.640 the response unsettling and I didn't know if it was 0:21:14.721 --> 0:21:17.640 true or not. But I said, you know, how could 0:21:17.681 --> 0:21:20.080 you even say that, and like when do you think 0:21:20.120 --> 0:21:25.401 this would have even happened? And she replied, it did happen. 0:21:26.041 --> 0:21:29.001 You know, just because you think he's not that person 0:21:29.281 --> 0:21:32.441 doesn't mean that he's not and you know this happened 0:21:32.681 --> 0:21:39.521 during like primary school. I just sort of went, I 0:21:39.521 --> 0:21:41.160 don't even know how that can be true, because you 0:21:41.201 --> 0:21:44.001 were never even there, and he hasn't flown up in 0:21:44.041 --> 0:21:46.761 a long time because he's been his elderly. I then 0:21:46.921 --> 0:21:50.960 remembered I flashed for I can't remember if it was 0:21:50.961 --> 0:21:54.440 in the letters or we found a diary of Brittany's 0:21:55.681 --> 0:22:00.480 and she talks about being raped by a guy after 0:22:00.521 --> 0:22:07.240 school and this is during like high scholl and that 0:22:07.321 --> 0:22:11.361 he did things to her that she didn't want, and 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:15.160 it sort of matched the timeframe she was talking about, 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:20.240 and something that I spoke about with my psychologist was 0:22:20.281 --> 0:22:25.480 that if she was doing as many drugs as it 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:28.961 said that she was, and with ice and all of that, 0:22:28.961 --> 0:22:34.200 that it could absolutely manipulate. She's putting that pain to 0:22:34.281 --> 0:22:39.360 the attachment of my grandfather to justify the end action. 0:22:39.921 --> 0:22:42.721 In her head, it did happen, and that that's why 0:22:42.761 --> 0:22:45.321 she did what she did. But the problem is the 0:22:45.360 --> 0:22:48.080 story's changed too many times, and. 0:22:48.001 --> 0:22:50.321 We want to state, although your grandad's no longer here, 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:56.321 that everything in court, any evidence that was tendered, that 0:22:56.441 --> 0:22:57.961 was a possibility. He was thrown out. 0:22:58.241 --> 0:22:59.400 Yeah, absolutely was. 0:23:00.801 --> 0:23:06.041 In court. Your sister also told the doc that she 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:11.041 alleges that she grew up in an abusive household. What 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:12.561 do you think she meant by that, Well, you're in 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:13.201 the same house. 0:23:13.321 --> 0:23:16.240 Yeah, definitely. I definitely don't think it was abusive. My 0:23:16.321 --> 0:23:20.001 parents were strict. If we did something wrong, we definitely 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:25.281 knew about it. But I wouldn't say abusive at all. 0:23:25.481 --> 0:23:32.080 I think there was ways that she manipulated situations, especially 0:23:32.201 --> 0:23:35.761 during the process of speaking to the psychologists, and there 0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:38.120 was even in one of the letters that she wrote 0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:40.961 to me, she said that you know, oh, I said 0:23:41.041 --> 0:23:44.360 this because my lawyer suggested it would be good, something 0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:48.480 good to say, so I think in that scenario she 0:23:48.561 --> 0:23:51.360 would have gone, yep, I remember Ryan getting a smack 0:23:51.441 --> 0:23:53.680 because he did something wrong. I'm going to roll with that. 0:23:54.561 --> 0:23:57.241 I want to read the judges' comments on sentencing your sister, 0:23:57.921 --> 0:24:00.720 and primarily because they I think that draws some attention 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:03.120 to a couple of things. The first what I'm reading 0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:05.000 here is that where the judge is deciding how long 0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:09.281 she's going to stand in jail, and so his second 0:24:09.561 --> 0:24:12.561 factor is that very early in the piece, your sister 0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:16.321 acknowledged her guilt, and more than that, she gave the 0:24:16.360 --> 0:24:19.001 police a full and frank, at times disarm. 0:24:20.120 --> 0:24:24.080 Rather naively frank accounts of all of your actions and thoughts. 0:24:24.521 --> 0:24:27.721 At one level, this demonstrates an acknowledgment of the wrongfulness 0:24:27.721 --> 0:24:30.001 of your conduct and is the first an essential step 0:24:30.041 --> 0:24:33.961 to change and rehabilitation. Nevertheless, and whilst giving you credit 0:24:34.001 --> 0:24:36.321 in that respect, on my reading of your statements to 0:24:36.360 --> 0:24:38.920 the police, I do have doubts as to whether you 0:24:39.041 --> 0:24:42.761 have any real understanding of how evil and abhorrent your 0:24:42.761 --> 0:24:45.721 conduct was. I accept that you knew that your conduct 0:24:45.721 --> 0:24:48.001 was wrongful, but I'm not confident that you have the 0:24:48.041 --> 0:24:51.481 emotional makeup or capacity to be truly contrivee. 0:24:51.921 --> 0:24:55.600