WEBVTT - How pro-wrestling shaped Trump

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump is standing in the middle of a packed auditorium.

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<v Speaker 1>The sense of excitement is palpable, the air full of

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<v Speaker 1>tension and testosterone. He is commanding the moment. Except this

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<v Speaker 1>is not a Trump rally. It's w w E. First

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<v Speaker 1>of all, that's.

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<v Speaker 2>You're great friends are no match for my Trump towers.

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<v Speaker 1>And Trump is here to battle it out against w

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<v Speaker 1>w A. He's billionaire founder Bence McMahon the host. Don't takeover,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Donald Trump's McMahon has happened that rastlady, I'm twenty three.

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<v Speaker 1>Then I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM.

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<v Speaker 1>The now infamous Battle of the Billionaires is not the

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<v Speaker 1>only time Trump has appeared in WWE. He's even got

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<v Speaker 1>a spot in the Sports Hall of Fame. But this

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand and seven match against Vince mcmaart was a

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<v Speaker 1>sign of Trump's deep connection to pro wrestling, which has

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<v Speaker 1>shaped how he speaks and how he does politics. It's

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<v Speaker 1>also a sign of Trump's long standing friendship with mcmatin,

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<v Speaker 1>which is rewarded by giving his ex wife Linda McMahon

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<v Speaker 1>the role of Secretary of Education. Today. Author and journalist

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<v Speaker 1>Joseph irb on how Donald Trump brought the art of

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<v Speaker 1>pro wrestling to politics, and how to helped make him popular.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Sunday, April five. This episode first aired in December

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<v Speaker 1>of twenty twenty four. Joseph, Let's talk about the WWE

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<v Speaker 1>World Wrestling Entertainment. When did you first watch it and

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<v Speaker 1>what did you love about I.

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<v Speaker 3>Think I first encountered it when I was very young.

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<v Speaker 3>Like a lot of people of my generation, it was

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<v Speaker 3>something that was always in the kind of background culturally,

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<v Speaker 3>and I remember going up the road there were like

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<v Speaker 3>a bunch of boys who lived a couple of doors

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<v Speaker 3>up and they were obsessed with it, and it was

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<v Speaker 3>one of those things where I was younger, I was

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<v Speaker 3>on the outer and getting into wrestling was a way

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<v Speaker 3>of kind of connecting with them and getting in with them.

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<v Speaker 1>Hopeful, ready for WrestleMania. Give me your hell.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you damn right, because dom Cole Steve Austen has

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<v Speaker 2>been sucked around long enough.

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<v Speaker 3>And I remember finding it kind of shocking and strange

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<v Speaker 3>and just being enthralled.

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<v Speaker 4>It is in all its fiery sight to see this

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<v Speaker 4>ring so rounded by these ways. In one of these men, ladies,

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<v Speaker 4>the gentlemen will be born.

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<v Speaker 3>Tonight and it's one of those things that more recently

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<v Speaker 3>that I guess I've started really seeing it as a

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<v Speaker 3>real art form that also has moments which are moving

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<v Speaker 3>and and authentic, and I think that's exactly what wrestling is.

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<v Speaker 1>And at the center of it all was the honor

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<v Speaker 1>of w WA. Vince mcmaham, Can you tell me a

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<v Speaker 1>little about him and the character that he started to

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<v Speaker 1>play as he grew out watching.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Vince McMahon is a really interesting character. Vince was

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<v Speaker 3>involved in the world of wrestling since the sixties. Before Vince,

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<v Speaker 3>the wrestling territories were all separate and he was the

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<v Speaker 3>man who kind of brought them together and united them

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<v Speaker 3>and created the WWE. He was a commentator, but it

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<v Speaker 3>wasn't known for some time that he was the man

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<v Speaker 3>calling the shots until it kind of leaked it became

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<v Speaker 3>public knowledge. He started to attract a lot of negative

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<v Speaker 3>attention from wrestling audiences for the decisions he was making

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<v Speaker 3>as the man in charge.

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<v Speaker 4>He is the owner of the World Wrestling Federation.

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<v Speaker 2>Vince McMahon, Well, you didn't have the longer the iris flat.

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<v Speaker 3>And because he's a very kind of shrewd businessman and

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<v Speaker 3>creative force he realized that he could use that negative

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<v Speaker 3>attention from crowds, and he used that heat and turned

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<v Speaker 3>himself into a character. So for many years he played

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<v Speaker 3>a wrestling character called mister McMahon, who was an extension

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<v Speaker 3>of his real life persona. He was, you know, wearing

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<v Speaker 3>these big boxy suits and he was strutting into the ring.

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<v Speaker 2>You are bought it line and safer, you are bought it.

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<v Speaker 5>They did.

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<v Speaker 6>Even my family, even my immdiot family, bought it.

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<v Speaker 1>Every damn one of you were made fools.

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<v Speaker 3>So he played this kind of arch villain in wrestling

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<v Speaker 3>storylines for many, many years as the Evil Boss, who

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<v Speaker 3>was this craven capitalist whose whose catchphrase was You're fired.

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<v Speaker 1>Screw you near fired. Would it be right to say

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<v Speaker 1>that he sounds a little bit like Donald Trump? I

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<v Speaker 1>think so.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean Trump and Vince are close friends. There's a

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<v Speaker 3>writer called Abraham Josephine Riceman who wrote a biography of Vince,

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<v Speaker 3>who has made a pretty convincing case that Vince is

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<v Speaker 3>one of Trump's closest friends. I think Trump was drawn

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<v Speaker 3>to Vince. I mean, Trump is called Vince a great man.

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<v Speaker 1>Vince is an amazing man. He really is.

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<v Speaker 6>I mean we kid and we have fun, but everybody

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<v Speaker 6>knows he's an amazing guy.

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<v Speaker 3>As these stories that when Trump was last president, when

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<v Speaker 3>Vince would call, Trump would clear the room in order

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<v Speaker 3>to talk to him. And the WWE has its Hall

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<v Speaker 3>of Fame, and it's an honor that has been bestowed

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<v Speaker 3>on Donald Trump, who is an official WWE Hall of

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<v Speaker 3>Fame inductee.

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<v Speaker 2>Is my just think honor to introduce you to the

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<v Speaker 2>newest member of the w Hall of Fame class of

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<v Speaker 2>twenty thirteen.

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<v Speaker 1>So Vince seems to have really inspired Trump.

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<v Speaker 3>I think we can really see that Trump has modeled

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<v Speaker 3>his persona on Vince McMahon, not only in the cadence

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<v Speaker 3>of Trump's speech that kind of rambly, insulting, kind of

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<v Speaker 3>generating nicknames, going for jokes, going for laughlines and applause lines.

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<v Speaker 7>You've called women you don't like, fat pigs, dogs, slavs,

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<v Speaker 7>and disgusting animals.

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<v Speaker 8>Your Twitter account.

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<v Speaker 1>Only Rosie o'donald.

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<v Speaker 2>Hillary Clinton, commonly referred to as Crooked Hillary, thinks that

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<v Speaker 2>you you, all of you are deplorable and totally irredeemable,

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<v Speaker 2>like we need help to beat sleepy Joe Biden.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think.

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<v Speaker 3>So that is very very wrestling, and in particular that's

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<v Speaker 3>very Vince, but also just the content of what Trump says,

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<v Speaker 3>like even if you hate me, you're still paying attention

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<v Speaker 3>to me, and you're still obsessed with me, And that's

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<v Speaker 3>a very old wrestling trick. I mean, there was a

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<v Speaker 3>rally earlier this year where he played a super cut

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<v Speaker 3>of Kamala Harris just mentioning Trump over and over, just

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<v Speaker 3>constantly talking about him.

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<v Speaker 6>Regard it didn't allow that to happen. Last night, a

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<v Speaker 6>couple of made a speech, not much of one were

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<v Speaker 6>they paid for audience, and all she talked about was

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<v Speaker 6>Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 5>Evening everyone tonight, I will speak about Donald Trump, Donald Trump,

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<v Speaker 5>Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 3>Donald Trump, and I think that's very heel. It's like,

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<v Speaker 3>even if you hate me, how come I'm on your

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<v Speaker 3>brains all the time. So there's this incredibly close friendship

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<v Speaker 3>between by all reports, between Vince and Trump, and it's

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<v Speaker 3>a case of the two men influencing and shaping each

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<v Speaker 3>other to both of their benefit. And that's paid off

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<v Speaker 3>in a big way, I think for Trump in terms

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<v Speaker 3>of it being a key way that he has created popularity,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's also paid off for the McMahons because Linda

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<v Speaker 3>has been appointed to a key position within the Trump cabinet.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break, Linda McMahon enters the arena. Joseph, what

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<v Speaker 1>can you tell me about Vince's ex wife, Linda McMahon

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<v Speaker 1>and how she ended up in the Trump cabinet?

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<v Speaker 3>Linda is interesting. So Linda and Vince matt when they

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<v Speaker 3>were quite young, they co founded Titan Entertainment, which is

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<v Speaker 3>the company behind WWE together. Their marriage and business partnership

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<v Speaker 3>was always clearly quite delineated, where it would be like

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<v Speaker 3>Vince is the big, colorful character and Linda is the shrewd, sensible,

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<v Speaker 3>quieter business side of proceedings. But there were times when

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<v Speaker 3>that was muddied. So there was this multi episode long

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<v Speaker 3>storyline about very succession, ask about the schisms within the

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<v Speaker 3>McMahon family, and it culminated in Linda on stage in

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<v Speaker 3>a wheelchair acting as though she was heavily medicated while

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<v Speaker 3>Vince kissed a wrestler that he was meant to be

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<v Speaker 3>having an affair with.

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<v Speaker 4>I can't believe he's crapy, kissy trish like that in

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<v Speaker 4>front of his own wine.

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<v Speaker 3>So if you're part of the wrestling business, particularly in

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<v Speaker 3>the nineties and early two thousands, you're gonna get absorbed

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<v Speaker 3>into a wrestling storyline, and that's exactly what happened to Linda.

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<v Speaker 6>My name is Linda McMahon, and I am the chair

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<v Speaker 6>of the America First Policy Institute.

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<v Speaker 3>So Linda has been involved in the Republican Party for

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<v Speaker 3>some time unsuccessfully until she kind of attached herself to Trump.

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<v Speaker 7>I perhaps one of the few people who's been privileged

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<v Speaker 7>to call Donald Trump a colleague and a boss, but

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<v Speaker 7>he's also a friend.

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<v Speaker 3>She served as part of Trump's twenty sixteen administration. She's

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<v Speaker 3>also helped in the re election campaign, and she's now

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<v Speaker 3>his pick for Secretary of Education.

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<v Speaker 1>Does she have a background in education?

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<v Speaker 3>She has tried to tell people that the answer to

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<v Speaker 3>that question is yes.

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<v Speaker 8>McMahon's only educational experience is one year serving on the

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<v Speaker 8>Connecticut Board of Education back in two thousand and nine

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<v Speaker 8>and years on the board of trustees for Sacred Heart University.

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<v Speaker 3>People who support her will point to the fact that

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<v Speaker 3>when she was a big figure in the WWE, she

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<v Speaker 3>would push literacy programs through wrestlers, kind of do public

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<v Speaker 3>service education that way. But many people have pointed out

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<v Speaker 3>that She has been implicated in a recent lawsuit which

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<v Speaker 3>basically alleges that there was widespread and very well known

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<v Speaker 3>sexual abuse against ring boys, so young men who were

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<v Speaker 3>involved in wrestling matches, and there are some very kind

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<v Speaker 3>of serious allegations that she was part of a culture

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<v Speaker 3>that facilitated and allowed this abuse.

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<v Speaker 7>Long time ringside announcer Melvin Phillips targeted young men from

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<v Speaker 7>disadvantage backgrounds and hired them as ring boys to help

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<v Speaker 7>with wrestling matches. The five plaintiffs accused Phillips of abusing

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<v Speaker 7>them while in several states, including here in Maryland.

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<v Speaker 3>Also, Vince is no longer part of the WWE. He

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<v Speaker 3>has had some very serious allegations against him. Vince has

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<v Speaker 3>been implicated in lawsuits and investigations on the way he

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<v Speaker 3>allegedly facilitated abuse of all kinds, and some which focus

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<v Speaker 3>on direct claims on his behavior, including some very serious

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<v Speaker 3>sex trafficking allegations, all of.

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<v Speaker 1>Which makes Lynna McMahon a controversial choice to be in

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<v Speaker 1>charge of education.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there has been a lot of criticism of her,

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<v Speaker 3>and I think, you know, a lot very justified. Trump

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<v Speaker 3>has tried to say that she's the owner of this

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<v Speaker 3>extremely successful business. I mean, WWE is a billion dollar company.

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<v Speaker 3>So he's tried to use her success in businesses as

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<v Speaker 3>a kind of sign that she knows what's good for

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<v Speaker 3>America's youth and she can teach them in that way.

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<v Speaker 1>So what do you think we when we overlook the

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<v Speaker 1>impact all the influence that prayor wrestling has on Donald

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<v Speaker 1>Trump and the way he operates.

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<v Speaker 3>I say this with no glowing secret admiration or anything,

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<v Speaker 3>but we have to take seriously the things that have

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<v Speaker 3>made Trump popular. For years, wrestling has been talked about

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<v Speaker 3>as yeah, oh it's fake, you know. It's talked about

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<v Speaker 3>as at best fictional child's play on the PA for

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<v Speaker 3>reality TV, and at worst a corrupting influence on children.

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<v Speaker 3>And this has come up a lot since Linda has

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<v Speaker 3>been appointed, and there was a kind of slightly patronizing

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<v Speaker 3>view of being like, well, Trump just kind of appeals

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<v Speaker 3>to these baser instincts. And while that's true, this mode

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<v Speaker 3>is very good at generating attention and it is a

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<v Speaker 3>storytelling mode.

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<v Speaker 1>It works.

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<v Speaker 3>It has made Vince McMahon an extremely powerful person. And

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<v Speaker 3>the writer I mentioned earlier, Abraham Josephine Riisman, has spoken

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<v Speaker 3>about us living in a world of Vince McMahon's making.

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<v Speaker 3>And if that's true, that's in some respects very very worrying,

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<v Speaker 3>and in order to hopefully change it to a different world,

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<v Speaker 3>we have to take wrestling seriously.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much for your time, Joseph.

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<v Speaker 3>A pleasure, the true pleasure.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll be back tomorrow with a new episode on the

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<v Speaker 1>Texas oil Man and he's planned to start fracking in

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<v Speaker 1>the Kimberley project.

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<v Speaker 5>Val Halleck covers an area roughly the size of Tasmania

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<v Speaker 5>and it covers the Fitzroy River catchment in the Canning Basin,

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<v Speaker 5>which apparently has one of the world's last undeveloped lads

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<v Speaker 5>scale reservoirs.

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<v Speaker 1>Of on shore guests, I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening.