Speaker 1: Donald Trump is standing in the middle of a packed auditorium.
Speaker 1: The sense of excitement is palpable, the air full of
Speaker 1: tension and testosterone. He is commanding the moment. Except this
Speaker 1: is not a Trump rally. It's w w E. First
Speaker 1: of all, that's.
Speaker 2: You're great friends are no match for my Trump towers.
Speaker 1: And Trump is here to battle it out against w
Speaker 1: w A. He's billionaire founder Bence McMahon the host. Don't takeover,
Speaker 1: I'm Donald Trump's McMahon has happened that rastlady, I'm twenty three.
Speaker 1: Then I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM.
Speaker 1: The now infamous Battle of the Billionaires is not the
Speaker 1: only time Trump has appeared in WWE. He's even got
Speaker 1: a spot in the Sports Hall of Fame. But this
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven match against Vince mcmaart was a
Speaker 1: sign of Trump's deep connection to pro wrestling, which has
Speaker 1: shaped how he speaks and how he does politics. It's
Speaker 1: also a sign of Trump's long standing friendship with mcmatin,
Speaker 1: which is rewarded by giving his ex wife Linda McMahon
Speaker 1: the role of Secretary of Education. Today. Author and journalist
Speaker 1: Joseph irb on how Donald Trump brought the art of
Speaker 1: pro wrestling to politics, and how to helped make him popular.
Speaker 1: It's Sunday, April five. This episode first aired in December
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four. Joseph, Let's talk about the WWE
Speaker 1: World Wrestling Entertainment. When did you first watch it and
Speaker 1: what did you love about I.
Speaker 3: Think I first encountered it when I was very young.
Speaker 3: Like a lot of people of my generation, it was
Speaker 3: something that was always in the kind of background culturally,
Speaker 3: and I remember going up the road there were like
Speaker 3: a bunch of boys who lived a couple of doors
Speaker 3: up and they were obsessed with it, and it was
Speaker 3: one of those things where I was younger, I was
Speaker 3: on the outer and getting into wrestling was a way
Speaker 3: of kind of connecting with them and getting in with them.
Speaker 1: Hopeful, ready for WrestleMania. Give me your hell.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you damn right, because dom Cole Steve Austen has
Speaker 2: been sucked around long enough.
Speaker 3: And I remember finding it kind of shocking and strange
Speaker 3: and just being enthralled.
Speaker 4: It is in all its fiery sight to see this
Speaker 4: ring so rounded by these ways. In one of these men, ladies,
Speaker 4: the gentlemen will be born.
Speaker 3: Tonight and it's one of those things that more recently
Speaker 3: that I guess I've started really seeing it as a
Speaker 3: real art form that also has moments which are moving
Speaker 3: and and authentic, and I think that's exactly what wrestling is.
Speaker 1: And at the center of it all was the honor
Speaker 1: of w WA. Vince mcmaham, Can you tell me a
Speaker 1: little about him and the character that he started to
Speaker 1: play as he grew out watching.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Vince McMahon is a really interesting character. Vince was
Speaker 3: involved in the world of wrestling since the sixties. Before Vince,
Speaker 3: the wrestling territories were all separate and he was the
Speaker 3: man who kind of brought them together and united them
Speaker 3: and created the WWE. He was a commentator, but it
Speaker 3: wasn't known for some time that he was the man
Speaker 3: calling the shots until it kind of leaked it became
Speaker 3: public knowledge. He started to attract a lot of negative
Speaker 3: attention from wrestling audiences for the decisions he was making
Speaker 3: as the man in charge.
Speaker 4: He is the owner of the World Wrestling Federation.
Speaker 2: Vince McMahon, Well, you didn't have the longer the iris flat.
Speaker 3: And because he's a very kind of shrewd businessman and
Speaker 3: creative force he realized that he could use that negative
Speaker 3: attention from crowds, and he used that heat and turned
Speaker 3: himself into a character. So for many years he played
Speaker 3: a wrestling character called mister McMahon, who was an extension
Speaker 3: of his real life persona. He was, you know, wearing
Speaker 3: these big boxy suits and he was strutting into the ring.
Speaker 2: You are bought it line and safer, you are bought it.
Speaker 5: They did.
Speaker 6: Even my family, even my immdiot family, bought it.
Speaker 1: Every damn one of you were made fools.
Speaker 3: So he played this kind of arch villain in wrestling
Speaker 3: storylines for many, many years as the Evil Boss, who
Speaker 3: was this craven capitalist whose whose catchphrase was You're fired.
Speaker 1: Screw you near fired. Would it be right to say
Speaker 1: that he sounds a little bit like Donald Trump? I
Speaker 1: think so.
Speaker 3: I mean Trump and Vince are close friends. There's a
Speaker 3: writer called Abraham Josephine Riceman who wrote a biography of Vince,
Speaker 3: who has made a pretty convincing case that Vince is
Speaker 3: one of Trump's closest friends. I think Trump was drawn
Speaker 3: to Vince. I mean, Trump is called Vince a great man.
Speaker 1: Vince is an amazing man. He really is.
Speaker 6: I mean we kid and we have fun, but everybody
Speaker 6: knows he's an amazing guy.
Speaker 3: As these stories that when Trump was last president, when
Speaker 3: Vince would call, Trump would clear the room in order
Speaker 3: to talk to him. And the WWE has its Hall
Speaker 3: of Fame, and it's an honor that has been bestowed
Speaker 3: on Donald Trump, who is an official WWE Hall of
Speaker 3: Fame inductee.
Speaker 2: Is my just think honor to introduce you to the
Speaker 2: newest member of the w Hall of Fame class of
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen.
Speaker 1: So Vince seems to have really inspired Trump.
Speaker 3: I think we can really see that Trump has modeled
Speaker 3: his persona on Vince McMahon, not only in the cadence
Speaker 3: of Trump's speech that kind of rambly, insulting, kind of
Speaker 3: generating nicknames, going for jokes, going for laughlines and applause lines.
Speaker 7: You've called women you don't like, fat pigs, dogs, slavs,
Speaker 7: and disgusting animals.
Speaker 8: Your Twitter account.
Speaker 1: Only Rosie o'donald.
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton, commonly referred to as Crooked Hillary, thinks that
Speaker 2: you you, all of you are deplorable and totally irredeemable,
Speaker 2: like we need help to beat sleepy Joe Biden.
Speaker 1: I don't think.
Speaker 3: So that is very very wrestling, and in particular that's
Speaker 3: very Vince, but also just the content of what Trump says,
Speaker 3: like even if you hate me, you're still paying attention
Speaker 3: to me, and you're still obsessed with me, And that's
Speaker 3: a very old wrestling trick. I mean, there was a
Speaker 3: rally earlier this year where he played a super cut
Speaker 3: of Kamala Harris just mentioning Trump over and over, just
Speaker 3: constantly talking about him.
Speaker 6: Regard it didn't allow that to happen. Last night, a
Speaker 6: couple of made a speech, not much of one were
Speaker 6: they paid for audience, and all she talked about was
Speaker 6: Donald Trump.
Speaker 5: Evening everyone tonight, I will speak about Donald Trump, Donald Trump,
Speaker 5: Donald Trump.
Speaker 3: Donald Trump, and I think that's very heel. It's like,
Speaker 3: even if you hate me, how come I'm on your
Speaker 3: brains all the time. So there's this incredibly close friendship
Speaker 3: between by all reports, between Vince and Trump, and it's
Speaker 3: a case of the two men influencing and shaping each
Speaker 3: other to both of their benefit. And that's paid off
Speaker 3: in a big way, I think for Trump in terms
Speaker 3: of it being a key way that he has created popularity,
Speaker 3: and it's also paid off for the McMahons because Linda
Speaker 3: has been appointed to a key position within the Trump cabinet.
Speaker 1: After the break, Linda McMahon enters the arena. Joseph, what
Speaker 1: can you tell me about Vince's ex wife, Linda McMahon
Speaker 1: and how she ended up in the Trump cabinet?
Speaker 3: Linda is interesting. So Linda and Vince matt when they
Speaker 3: were quite young, they co founded Titan Entertainment, which is
Speaker 3: the company behind WWE together. Their marriage and business partnership
Speaker 3: was always clearly quite delineated, where it would be like
Speaker 3: Vince is the big, colorful character and Linda is the shrewd, sensible,
Speaker 3: quieter business side of proceedings. But there were times when
Speaker 3: that was muddied. So there was this multi episode long
Speaker 3: storyline about very succession, ask about the schisms within the
Speaker 3: McMahon family, and it culminated in Linda on stage in
Speaker 3: a wheelchair acting as though she was heavily medicated while
Speaker 3: Vince kissed a wrestler that he was meant to be
Speaker 3: having an affair with.
Speaker 4: I can't believe he's crapy, kissy trish like that in
Speaker 4: front of his own wine.
Speaker 3: So if you're part of the wrestling business, particularly in
Speaker 3: the nineties and early two thousands, you're gonna get absorbed
Speaker 3: into a wrestling storyline, and that's exactly what happened to Linda.
Speaker 6: My name is Linda McMahon, and I am the chair
Speaker 6: of the America First Policy Institute.
Speaker 3: So Linda has been involved in the Republican Party for
Speaker 3: some time unsuccessfully until she kind of attached herself to Trump.
Speaker 7: I perhaps one of the few people who's been privileged
Speaker 7: to call Donald Trump a colleague and a boss, but
Speaker 7: he's also a friend.
Speaker 3: She served as part of Trump's twenty sixteen administration. She's
Speaker 3: also helped in the re election campaign, and she's now
Speaker 3: his pick for Secretary of Education.
Speaker 1: Does she have a background in education?
Speaker 3: She has tried to tell people that the answer to
Speaker 3: that question is yes.
Speaker 8: McMahon's only educational experience is one year serving on the
Speaker 8: Connecticut Board of Education back in two thousand and nine
Speaker 8: and years on the board of trustees for Sacred Heart University.
Speaker 3: People who support her will point to the fact that
Speaker 3: when she was a big figure in the WWE, she
Speaker 3: would push literacy programs through wrestlers, kind of do public
Speaker 3: service education that way. But many people have pointed out
Speaker 3: that She has been implicated in a recent lawsuit which
Speaker 3: basically alleges that there was widespread and very well known
Speaker 3: sexual abuse against ring boys, so young men who were
Speaker 3: involved in wrestling matches, and there are some very kind
Speaker 3: of serious allegations that she was part of a culture
Speaker 3: that facilitated and allowed this abuse.
Speaker 7: Long time ringside announcer Melvin Phillips targeted young men from
Speaker 7: disadvantage backgrounds and hired them as ring boys to help
Speaker 7: with wrestling matches. The five plaintiffs accused Phillips of abusing
Speaker 7: them while in several states, including here in Maryland.
Speaker 3: Also, Vince is no longer part of the WWE. He
Speaker 3: has had some very serious allegations against him. Vince has
Speaker 3: been implicated in lawsuits and investigations on the way he
Speaker 3: allegedly facilitated abuse of all kinds, and some which focus
Speaker 3: on direct claims on his behavior, including some very serious
Speaker 3: sex trafficking allegations, all of.
Speaker 1: Which makes Lynna McMahon a controversial choice to be in
Speaker 1: charge of education.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there has been a lot of criticism of her,
Speaker 3: and I think, you know, a lot very justified. Trump
Speaker 3: has tried to say that she's the owner of this
Speaker 3: extremely successful business. I mean, WWE is a billion dollar company.
Speaker 3: So he's tried to use her success in businesses as
Speaker 3: a kind of sign that she knows what's good for
Speaker 3: America's youth and she can teach them in that way.
Speaker 1: So what do you think we when we overlook the
Speaker 1: impact all the influence that prayor wrestling has on Donald
Speaker 1: Trump and the way he operates.
Speaker 3: I say this with no glowing secret admiration or anything,
Speaker 3: but we have to take seriously the things that have
Speaker 3: made Trump popular. For years, wrestling has been talked about
Speaker 3: as yeah, oh it's fake, you know. It's talked about
Speaker 3: as at best fictional child's play on the PA for
Speaker 3: reality TV, and at worst a corrupting influence on children.
Speaker 3: And this has come up a lot since Linda has
Speaker 3: been appointed, and there was a kind of slightly patronizing
Speaker 3: view of being like, well, Trump just kind of appeals
Speaker 3: to these baser instincts. And while that's true, this mode
Speaker 3: is very good at generating attention and it is a
Speaker 3: storytelling mode.
Speaker 1: It works.
Speaker 3: It has made Vince McMahon an extremely powerful person. And
Speaker 3: the writer I mentioned earlier, Abraham Josephine Riisman, has spoken
Speaker 3: about us living in a world of Vince McMahon's making.
Speaker 3: And if that's true, that's in some respects very very worrying,
Speaker 3: and in order to hopefully change it to a different world,
Speaker 3: we have to take wrestling seriously.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time, Joseph.
Speaker 3: A pleasure, the true pleasure.
Speaker 1: We'll be back tomorrow with a new episode on the
Speaker 1: Texas oil Man and he's planned to start fracking in
Speaker 1: the Kimberley project.
Speaker 5: Val Halleck covers an area roughly the size of Tasmania
Speaker 5: and it covers the Fitzroy River catchment in the Canning Basin,
Speaker 5: which apparently has one of the world's last undeveloped lads
Speaker 5: scale reservoirs.
Speaker 1: Of on shore guests, I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.