WEBVTT - Is our concern for Ariana Grande making everything worse?

0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:06.840
<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. This is the weekend edition of The Front.

0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:15.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm Claire Harvey. Ariana Grande is a thirty three year

0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:20.360
<v Speaker 1>old superstar who is vanishing before our eyes. Am I

0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:22.599
<v Speaker 1>allowed to say that? Is it okay for the rest

0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.520
<v Speaker 1>of us to have opinions about the body of one

0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:30.080
<v Speaker 1>of the world's most photographed women by expressing concern or

0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:34.400
<v Speaker 1>something else about someone who looks so unwell? Are we

0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:38.520
<v Speaker 1>making things worse projecting our own problems and hang ups

0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:42.240
<v Speaker 1>on the most talented among us. One of the Australian's

0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:46.880
<v Speaker 1>own brilliant young women, Bianca far Marcus, has strong feelings

0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:48.800
<v Speaker 1>about who should be saying what.

0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:00.640
<v Speaker 2>I want to do.

0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:03.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I.

0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.240
<v Speaker 2>Loved her on Victorious. That's probably my first introduction.

0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:12.839
<v Speaker 3>I'm juggling and then I'm going to sing a song from.

0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Me, and then I kept in the loop with the albums.

0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:18.520
<v Speaker 2>The songs are always chart topping, so you can't really

0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:19.880
<v Speaker 2>you can't miss her.

0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.679
<v Speaker 1>She's phenomenally successful. She has everything from fragrance lines to

0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:27.680
<v Speaker 1>a beauty company to a healthy business doing sponsored posts

0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:30.679
<v Speaker 1>on social media, but her main job at the moment

0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:33.160
<v Speaker 1>is kind of in film theater and as a touring

0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:37.440
<v Speaker 1>musical artist, where she's absolutely massive. Her fans are young,

0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:40.080
<v Speaker 1>and they've kind of stayed young throughout her career, aren't they.

0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:44.080
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of preteen girls, teenage girls, maybe the women

0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.080
<v Speaker 1>who are growing up with her. Who do you think

0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:47.320
<v Speaker 1>is Ariana Grunde fan.

0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:49.480
<v Speaker 2>I would agree with you in the sense that they've

0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.600
<v Speaker 2>always been in that sort of young teen, late teen bracket.

0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:55.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean, obviously I've stayed somewhat loyal, but the Wicked

0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:57.480
<v Speaker 2>era kind of bored me to tears just too much.

0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:03.360
<v Speaker 2>I had to pivot. It's just so annoying. After a while,

0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:05.840
<v Speaker 2>I did, and I like, I love Wicked when I

0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:07.600
<v Speaker 2>was twelve, and I was happy to leave it there.

0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:12.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's interesting. She plays Glinda, the good Witch from

0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.240
<v Speaker 1>the Wizard of Oz in this adaptation Wicked, which is

0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:17.160
<v Speaker 1>a stage and now screen phenomenon.

0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:22.720
<v Speaker 2>Alphaba, They're coming for you. Just look at me, not

0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:24.480
<v Speaker 2>with your do you know what I think? What was

0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.120
<v Speaker 2>so interesting about the Wicked thing is that it reminded

0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:29.960
<v Speaker 2>everyone the breadth of talent, Like, you can't just reduce

0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:31.120
<v Speaker 2>her to a pop star anymore.

0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:38.200
<v Speaker 3>People into your lives for reason, here's a plan for

0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:41.320
<v Speaker 3>I have no plan, well, I do.

0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh, thank god, they brought in this whole kind of

0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:47.480
<v Speaker 2>more innocent aur to her, that she was this sweet,

0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.880
<v Speaker 2>very musical, theater bound kind of geeky person, which is

0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:54.600
<v Speaker 2>exciting for fans because you're rediscovering someone who, at a

0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:56.520
<v Speaker 2>certain point in her career was very much known for

0:02:56.560 --> 0:03:00.000
<v Speaker 2>these like vengeful, like sexy breakup albums, which were all

0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:08.400
<v Speaker 2>but then you get this new side to her, and

0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:12.799
<v Speaker 2>I think it created this incredible spectacle which has very

0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:14.040
<v Speaker 2>notably started to sour.

0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:24.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the Wicked movies, there were two of them, and

0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:26.600
<v Speaker 1>they were filmed together a few years ago and then

0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.760
<v Speaker 1>released separately over the past two and a half years.

0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.680
<v Speaker 1>And it's on the press tool for those two movies,

0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:36.640
<v Speaker 1>the press tools that she has appeared in public as

0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:39.000
<v Speaker 1>a very thin person, a suddenly very thin person. Someone

0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.680
<v Speaker 1>who was always kind of slim and gorgeous is now

0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:45.240
<v Speaker 1>skaletaly thin, and the world has reacted, has not been

0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.040
<v Speaker 1>able to cope, No, not at all with this. So

0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:51.360
<v Speaker 1>how would you characterize the way the conversation's.

0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Gone, I would say so, I mean, yes, it's exactly

0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:55.920
<v Speaker 2>what you said, right, Like, she was always petite, everyone

0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:58.080
<v Speaker 2>knew that and she had this kind of athleticism in

0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:00.400
<v Speaker 2>this pocket rocket We love a pocket rocket pop star,

0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:04.000
<v Speaker 2>especially in this country with Kylie Hah, perfect example. But

0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.720
<v Speaker 2>then from there you start seeing this uncomfortable sort of

0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:10.320
<v Speaker 2>look at what's coming out that you see someone who

0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:12.840
<v Speaker 2>is visibly emaciated. I think it's very fair to say that,

0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:16.560
<v Speaker 2>and I know we're currently in this post body positivity

0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:18.960
<v Speaker 2>era where you can't really say that about someone because

0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.279
<v Speaker 2>it's not right to comment on someone's body. But it's

0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.120
<v Speaker 2>just undeniable, like you can't deny that someone who is

0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:29.400
<v Speaker 2>on camera, which famously adds ten pounds, already looks like

0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.800
<v Speaker 2>a shell of their petite self. So it starts with

0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:35.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, I guess I can't even remember when it crystallized.

0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:39.240
<v Speaker 2>It really started because they started in Australian twenty twenty three.

0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.440
<v Speaker 2>Everyone saw it and was like, okay, this is noticeably

0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.240
<v Speaker 2>different to who we knew. And then there were the

0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:47.680
<v Speaker 2>rumors that the cast was sort of engaging in this

0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:50.279
<v Speaker 2>competitive under eating because the rest of them started to

0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:53.280
<v Speaker 2>look extremely thin. And it was very much this discourse

0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:56.840
<v Speaker 2>happening online or in quiet spaces, but not something that

0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:00.440
<v Speaker 2>was being so addressed so publicly which makes us to

0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:04.400
<v Speaker 2>now because I feel like we've really finally stopped looking

0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.760
<v Speaker 2>at it like it's something to be speculated on and

0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:10.039
<v Speaker 2>seen it visibly without a shadow of a doubt for

0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:14.719
<v Speaker 2>what it is. And this is someone who is it emaciated,

0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:23.880
<v Speaker 2>is inexcusably shockingly and very complicatedly thin in a public

0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:27.479
<v Speaker 2>spotlight that is also on the top of their game.

0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:29.680
<v Speaker 2>And it's I think it's very confusing for people to

0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:31.880
<v Speaker 2>see that right now.

0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.600
<v Speaker 1>It's really interesting as a woman and a kind of feminist,

0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.520
<v Speaker 1>isn't it to talk about these things. I had Niki gammelr,

0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.680
<v Speaker 1>film critic in here to talk about Wicked, the second

0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.400
<v Speaker 1>film in the Wicked series, and I said to her

0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:53.279
<v Speaker 1>in the interview that we did. Ariana Grande and Cynthia

0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.000
<v Speaker 1>Erevo have transformed since the movie was short to now

0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.440
<v Speaker 1>on the priest tool they're both very thin. And Nikki said, oh, yes,

0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.320
<v Speaker 1>but we don't about women's bodies. And Nikki is, like me,

0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:05.200
<v Speaker 1>a feminist of a certain age, and I totally respect

0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.120
<v Speaker 1>her view. And that's one view of feminism that it's

0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:10.200
<v Speaker 1>not right to talk about what women look like at all,

0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:14.320
<v Speaker 1>so just leave it. But as the mother of a

0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.080
<v Speaker 1>daughter and someone who has lots of younger women around

0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:19.039
<v Speaker 1>me who I care deeply about, and I was once

0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.800
<v Speaker 1>a young woman. I wonder do we have as women

0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.200
<v Speaker 1>an obligation or a rite or a duty to speak

0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.359
<v Speaker 1>about what you say a visibly starving person.

0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:30.960
<v Speaker 2>I find it a very interesting conversation that it's kind

0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.120
<v Speaker 2>of like this, Oh, you can't say that. That's like,

0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:36.240
<v Speaker 2>that's mean or it's disparaging. This is not mean or disparaging.

0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:38.880
<v Speaker 2>I think you can equate it to numerous other things

0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.480
<v Speaker 2>that people have suffered from in the public eye, and

0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.560
<v Speaker 2>that conversation is very warranted because it's seen as a

0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.080
<v Speaker 2>vice or it's something that you're doing. This is a

0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:49.440
<v Speaker 2>health concern, And I mean, I don't really like pinning

0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:51.400
<v Speaker 2>it all on Ariana Grande, you know. I think she's

0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.120
<v Speaker 2>become very much the unfortunate face of what is like

0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:58.200
<v Speaker 2>a completely wider and a very systemic issue happening right now.

0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:02.280
<v Speaker 2>Of we're just seeing body shit completely again, and the

0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:07.039
<v Speaker 2>main change is how rapid it's happened. That's what bothers me.

0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:09.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't really care about what people look like. I

0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.000
<v Speaker 2>don't normally comment on what people look like. What I

0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:16.280
<v Speaker 2>do comment on is when it is absolutely everywhere. It

0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:20.320
<v Speaker 2>is so visible and it's so visceral that to me

0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:23.240
<v Speaker 2>screams at a wider issue and a reminder that no

0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:25.120
<v Speaker 2>matter what we'd like to think, no matter how far

0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:27.320
<v Speaker 2>we'd like to think we've come, we will continue to

0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.640
<v Speaker 2>think that starving yourselves for a public image is more

0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:35.480
<v Speaker 2>important than cultivating just a reasonable sense of self and

0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.680
<v Speaker 2>a healthy sense of self around it. I think with

0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:43.600
<v Speaker 2>every generation there are waves of when we know that

0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:45.840
<v Speaker 2>we're taking things too far in terms of body image,

0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.920
<v Speaker 2>and there is kind of that rebuttal to what should

0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:51.480
<v Speaker 2>be deemed healthy or what should be deemed appropriate within

0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:55.800
<v Speaker 2>the realm of body and beauty. And then there's the antithesis,

0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.160
<v Speaker 2>which is thin is back in, and it comes by

0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.320
<v Speaker 2>every single generation. Then we find the new thing to

0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:03.600
<v Speaker 2>blame for that, and it's never just this kind of

0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.800
<v Speaker 2>conversation of like, okay, well, like we can acknowledge that

0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:09.080
<v Speaker 2>there is a certain beauty standard that will always exist

0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:12.200
<v Speaker 2>and or continue to perpetuate, but how are we actually

0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.880
<v Speaker 2>speaking to people about what is reasonable for who you are.

0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:18.200
<v Speaker 2>We're not people in the public spotlight, we're not celebrities.

0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:20.640
<v Speaker 2>How do you divorce the fact that every single one

0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.280
<v Speaker 2>of them are now currently in this shrinking cycle and

0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.200
<v Speaker 2>not have that effect young people that are observing that

0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:27.400
<v Speaker 2>and may think that's normal.

0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:30.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it. How even in the past,

0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:34.679
<v Speaker 1>let's take my adulthood, from the nineties through to now,

0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:38.480
<v Speaker 1>there's been heroin chic, which everyone kind of blamed on magazines.

0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:40.720
<v Speaker 1>You know, it was like, well, this wouldn't be happening.

0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:42.439
<v Speaker 1>Kate Moss wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't the

0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:44.240
<v Speaker 1>edit for the editors of the magazines who were putting

0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.920
<v Speaker 1>on the front. Then it was it was the global

0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:51.840
<v Speaker 1>runways that showed women and men looking extremely thin. And

0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:53.960
<v Speaker 1>then there was kind of a few revolutions that the

0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.120
<v Speaker 1>victorious secret kind of angel body came along and it's like,

0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:00.200
<v Speaker 1>suddenly it's great to be very slim but also kind

0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.880
<v Speaker 1>of voluptuous. And then the advent of women in hip

0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.920
<v Speaker 1>hop kind of led these kind of junk in the trunk,

0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:10.800
<v Speaker 1>gorgeous natural woman's body, womanly bodies are great again. And

0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.600
<v Speaker 1>then it was body positivity, so it was like people

0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.120
<v Speaker 1>actually called themselves fat activists and were very vocal about

0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:19.400
<v Speaker 1>how it was important, and you could be fat and

0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.839
<v Speaker 1>fit and fat and healthy, and then Ozempi came along.

0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Straight out the window. So I came of age in

0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.400
<v Speaker 2>the tumbler era and the body positivity eras two very

0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:33.000
<v Speaker 2>divergent things where it was very cool privately to post

0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:36.800
<v Speaker 2>pro anorexia content on your blog, and it was images

0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:40.400
<v Speaker 2>now that I think were unforgivably shocking, though we're proliferating

0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:43.520
<v Speaker 2>that space, and in the same length mid twenty tens,

0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:47.079
<v Speaker 2>everyone was very happy to celebrate their bodies. I think,

0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:49.839
<v Speaker 2>and I don't say this with any sense of glee

0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.840
<v Speaker 2>or joy, but I think the body positivity movement has

0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:56.520
<v Speaker 2>completely failed, mainly because it was a political movement with

0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:01.360
<v Speaker 2>no teeth that everyone jumped the bandwagon because it was

0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.679
<v Speaker 2>suddenly chic to embrace your natural self. There was no

0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:06.920
<v Speaker 2>real kind of thought to it, and there was no

0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:11.400
<v Speaker 2>real galvanization for that to be a sustaining force because

0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:13.720
<v Speaker 2>we accepted the fact that there was maybe one fat

0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:17.480
<v Speaker 2>model in every campaign, there was occasionally an overweight person

0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:20.320
<v Speaker 2>on the cover of a magazine, and then the second

0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:24.000
<v Speaker 2>that anything else could take you back to the standard

0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:27.360
<v Speaker 2>of beauty that has been reinforced for generations. It was

0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.200
<v Speaker 2>like it never happened genuinely. I think it was such

0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:35.240
<v Speaker 2>a toothless movement in actuality and very much a kind

0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.000
<v Speaker 2>of virtue signal for five years.

0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:39.160
<v Speaker 1>Maybe if that.

0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:49.320
<v Speaker 2>I think we're in an era of excess, and the

0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:53.720
<v Speaker 2>relationship I've seen that have with various generations with physicality

0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.439
<v Speaker 2>has always sort of been like this push and pull.

0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:01.840
<v Speaker 2>So the eighties it was the commercialized as everything was

0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:05.040
<v Speaker 2>in the eighties, but it was a commercialization of the body,

0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:07.679
<v Speaker 2>like okay, we've got an ideal now. Everyone aspired to this,

0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:09.760
<v Speaker 2>like you can do it too, and it was energetic

0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:12.439
<v Speaker 2>and fun. You had like aerobics and you had anorexia,

0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.560
<v Speaker 2>and you could do one publicly and one privately. And

0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:17.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, I know she's fallen out of vogue now,

0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:21.000
<v Speaker 2>but Naomi Kleins, the Beauty Myth, wrote about this, and

0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:23.520
<v Speaker 2>I think part of her genius was framing it through

0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:25.440
<v Speaker 2>the eyes of like, what would we be saying if

0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.480
<v Speaker 2>dozens and hundreds of young men were throwing food off

0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.720
<v Speaker 2>their plate and doing that daily, Like we couldn't see

0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:35.520
<v Speaker 2>that was an issue yet. Then the nineties was you know,

0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:38.080
<v Speaker 2>the ideal is still extremely thin and it is still

0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:42.120
<v Speaker 2>extremely stuck in this small physicality. But your low waisted

0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.440
<v Speaker 2>jeans will look amazing and the world might end with

0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:46.520
<v Speaker 2>Y two UK, but will look hot doing it.

0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.559
<v Speaker 1>I think about that time Who Weekly magazine had an

0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:53.920
<v Speaker 1>annual half their size edition. God do you remember that? Yes,

0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:56.200
<v Speaker 1>it was like, I mean, let's be honest. I mean,

0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:58.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm so conditioned that I believe it when people do

0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.360
<v Speaker 1>look amazing when they shd you know, yeah, tenkulos. Yeah,

0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:04.280
<v Speaker 1>it's like getting a ten. I still think you look

0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:04.640
<v Speaker 1>better with it.

0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:06.840
<v Speaker 2>I know I said that ghostly pale right now, I

0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:09.480
<v Speaker 2>can't wait, But now I think what we're looking at

0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:13.600
<v Speaker 2>now in post COVID, there was an insane loneliness that

0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.360
<v Speaker 2>fell upon the world, which is an enormous trigger to

0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:18.680
<v Speaker 2>the way people perceive their bodies. And there's been so

0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:22.120
<v Speaker 2>many studies regarding that that it can trigger something as

0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.640
<v Speaker 2>extreme as an eating disorder, but also something as subtle

0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.480
<v Speaker 2>as like reimagining the way you look at I think

0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:31.880
<v Speaker 2>where we've had eras of physicality that's rooted in glamorization, aspiration,

0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:37.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, commoditization. Now it is ritualization because it is

0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:42.360
<v Speaker 2>so much easier quote unquote to be thinner and it is.

0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:47.360
<v Speaker 2>It is omnipresent the way to lose weight now, like

0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:51.200
<v Speaker 2>there are so many options. I've heard more about golp

0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.160
<v Speaker 2>ones in the past week than I think I've heard

0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.920
<v Speaker 2>about any sort of conversation about mental health, any sort

0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.000
<v Speaker 2>of conversation about things that actually are important, Like it

0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:05.000
<v Speaker 2>is just rooted in weight loss. And you're even seeing

0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:09.800
<v Speaker 2>people who were absolute icons and absolutely celebrated for showing

0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:13.439
<v Speaker 2>physicalities that were different to the norm be the faces

0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:17.400
<v Speaker 2>of these drugs, like they are like Oprah, like Serena Williams,

0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.520
<v Speaker 2>who I absolutely idolized, that was like a leading figure,

0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.520
<v Speaker 2>top of her game, and now she's the face of

0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:25.320
<v Speaker 2>an OZM pig variety.

0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:31.120
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I'm on row. They say golp ones, her weight

0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:34.600
<v Speaker 1>loss is a shortcut. It's not it's science.

0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:37.080
<v Speaker 2>Like what does that say to you? What does that

0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:39.040
<v Speaker 2>say to anyone? So I look at now, at the

0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.320
<v Speaker 2>wicked girls, I can't blame them, Like it just makes

0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.520
<v Speaker 2>me so upset. Why wouldn't you fall into that?

0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:52.240
<v Speaker 1>Coming up? So where does this conversation go from here?

0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.280
<v Speaker 1>So back to Ariana Grande. You wrote your piece about

0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.920
<v Speaker 1>what a remarkable kind of person she has been throughout

0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:16.240
<v Speaker 1>her career. Famously, the Manchester Arena bombing, where many young

0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.960
<v Speaker 1>fans died, was one of her concerts, Police later confirming

0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.640
<v Speaker 1>a suicide bomber had killed twenty two in injured hundreds.

0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.560
<v Speaker 1>So how did you overcome all of that and get

0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:27.360
<v Speaker 1>back on stage?

0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.200
<v Speaker 3>Well, I think just looking at my fans and the

0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.040
<v Speaker 3>way that they're responded to it, and like, of course

0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.360
<v Speaker 3>the city of Manchester and how they responded to it

0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:38.760
<v Speaker 3>with so much like unity and strength and love and fearlessness.

0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.360
<v Speaker 3>And I just never really seen anything like it.

0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:46.680
<v Speaker 1>And she's such an interesting woman. She's clearly so talented.

0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.880
<v Speaker 1>She's obviously suffering. She's withdrawn from a stage production that

0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:51.920
<v Speaker 1>she was going to be in because of this discourse

0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:55.440
<v Speaker 1>about her body. What do we owe Ariana Grunde. What

0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.680
<v Speaker 1>should we be doing? Should we be expressing these opinions?

0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Should we be staink.

0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.880
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting because I mean she's not a normal person,

0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.040
<v Speaker 2>that's the thing. And I did make it very.

0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:07.840
<v Speaker 1>Clear she is the face of this issue.

0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.200
<v Speaker 2>I think when it comes to talking about this on

0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:12.640
<v Speaker 2>a personal scale, you know, it's very hard to have

0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.360
<v Speaker 2>this conversation with someone because they probably don't realize or

0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:20.120
<v Speaker 2>they're probably very defensive, but she is unfortunately a face

0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 2>with three hundred and sixty million fans worldwide watching her.

0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.240
<v Speaker 2>Everyone's observing it. Whether you like to accept it or not.

0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:28.080
<v Speaker 2>When you're a public figure, you do have a bit

0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.960
<v Speaker 2>of this, this unfortunate reality that people will comment on things.

0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:34.440
<v Speaker 2>I think the cruelty people have shown to her is

0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.280
<v Speaker 2>just God, it's appalling.

0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:39.440
<v Speaker 1>But are we ever surprise?

0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.200
<v Speaker 2>I think when we talk about these things, we do

0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:44.640
<v Speaker 2>need to look at it from a broader cultural lens,

0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:48.720
<v Speaker 2>which is she is probably the most famous face of

0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:50.560
<v Speaker 2>it at the moment, but she's not the only one,

0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.120
<v Speaker 2>and she's not the only thing that's driving it. I

0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.040
<v Speaker 2>think the main thing actually when we talk to her

0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:59.680
<v Speaker 2>about her in particular, is the absolute shamefulness of the

0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:03.080
<v Speaker 2>people around her. That you will ring this person out

0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:07.960
<v Speaker 2>who is unbelievably talented to their last bone to make money.

0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.640
<v Speaker 2>Whoever decided that music video that came out with her

0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:15.920
<v Speaker 2>looking like walking skeleton was appropriate should be absolutely ashamed

0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:18.960
<v Speaker 2>of themselves. And it would have taken dozens, if not

0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.800
<v Speaker 2>hundreds of people to have looked at that and thought

0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:22.480
<v Speaker 2>that was okay.

0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:28.600
<v Speaker 1>But I don need someone to save this music. Well,

0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.040
<v Speaker 1>it's such a great conversation. I think we'll keep talking

0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:37.320
<v Speaker 1>about it. Thanks Vianka, Thank you. Bianca far Marcus is

0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.960
<v Speaker 1>The Australian's Content Director of Culture. This episode of the

0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:44.080
<v Speaker 1>Front was hosted by me Claire Harvey, produced by Kristin

0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.680
<v Speaker 1>Amiot and edited by Lead Samma Gloo. Thanks for joining

0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.320
<v Speaker 1>us on the Front this week. Our team also includes

0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:54.280
<v Speaker 1>Tiffany Dimack, Joshua Burton and Jasper Leek, who also wrote

0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:54.920
<v Speaker 1>our theme