1 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed business Interview. I'm sure, almam. 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: This week the new Right to Disconnect laws have come 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: into effect, changing the rules and expectations around after ours 4 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: contact for the workplace. The changes to the Fair Work 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: Act give workers an enforceable workplace right to refuse to monitor, read, 6 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: or respond to contact or attempted contact from their employer 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: outside of their working hours unless such refusal is unreasonable. 8 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: So what does unreasonable mean? Who exactly does it apply to? 9 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: How do companies ensure they are compliant with the new system. 10 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,919 Speaker 1: Amanda Virus is a partner in the Workplace Relations, Employment 11 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: and Safety team at Clayton Newts. Amanda, welcome to Fear 12 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: and Greed. 13 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 2: Thanks for having Sean. 14 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 1: Before we jump into the details, what's the motivation behind it? 15 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: What is the problem that the government is trying to fix? 16 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 3: So this right was introduced by the Greens Party who 17 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 3: were essentially concern with the fact that we now seem 18 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 3: to be plugged in twenty or seven to our workplaces 19 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 3: via all the tech that we use day to day. Initially, 20 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 3: the Greens were trying to introduce a prohibition that employees 21 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 3: couldn't be contacted at all by their employers outside business hours, 22 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 3: but that was pulled back in terms of what was 23 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 3: ultimately put on the table and passed recently and taking 24 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 3: effect today. 25 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: Okay, so just had different is this law to business? 26 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: Presumably these protections weren't in place already. What does a 27 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: business have to start thinking about or a manager have 28 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: to start thinking about under these laws. 29 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 3: Well, interestingly, Sean, there is an existing right under our 30 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 3: Fairwork Act for employers to be able to refuse to 31 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 3: work unreasonable additional hours. That right hasn't historically been leveraged 32 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 3: by employees in terms of claims that they have sought 33 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 3: to bring This right is similar but a little bit different. 34 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 3: It focuses less on the hours that people are working 35 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 3: outside the usual hours and more looks at the extent 36 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 3: to which they're being contacted or the extent to which 37 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 3: their employer is attempting to contact them. Sometimes of what 38 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 3: businesses need to think about the question is slightly different. 39 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 3: It's really looking at what are the circumstances in which 40 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 3: it's reasonable for you to be able to reach out 41 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 3: to one of your employees after hours to contact them, 42 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 3: and that will really depend on the nature of the employees' role, 43 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 3: how they're remunerated, and the associated expectations in terms of 44 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 3: what they are required to do for that remuneration. It 45 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 3: will look at issues such as whether they're required to 46 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 3: be on call, whether there may be emergencies that they 47 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 3: need to attend to, or whether they work at industries 48 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 3: where it's part of the course that the people are 49 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 3: available to respond to issues that might arise outside working hours, 50 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 3: and so businesses essentially will need to look at their 51 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 3: broader organizations to understand the types of work that's been 52 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 3: formed and which cohorts of employees are reasonably required to 53 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 3: be available after hours and which you might say or not. 54 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure for years we're going to talk 55 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: about what reasonable and unreasonable means. But as we stand 56 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: at the moment, there's no precedent. The law has only 57 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 1: started this week. Is it something that a business now 58 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: needs to sit with different cohorts of workers and say 59 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: this is the law and this is what we expect 60 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: or do you think it is you know, kind of 61 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: people will just operate as they have been because that's 62 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: what's been expected previously. Like I'm just wondering if if 63 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: I've got thirty people in the office three hundred people 64 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: in the office. How should I think about. 65 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 2: This in terms of doing it properly? 66 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 3: What I'm seeing businesses do we is sit down and 67 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 3: think about who are our different cohorts of workers and 68 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 3: what is reasonable for each of those different people. Do 69 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 3: we have people who might be required to deal with 70 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 3: you know, foreign jurisdictions outside Australia, do we have people 71 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 3: who are required to deal with client request story issues 72 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 3: after hours? So going through that process of looking at 73 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 3: different groups individually, other businesses will probably take the viewer. 74 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 3: They will deal with issues as they arise, because in 75 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 3: this jurisdiction, if an employee wants to raise an issue 76 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 3: about the degree of contact after hours, they first need 77 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 3: to raise it with their employer. So different businesses are 78 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 3: doing different things, but it is an opportune time to 79 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 3: think and reflect on the workforce and you know when. 80 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 2: It might be reasonable not to contact people. 81 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 3: And the legislation does give some guidance as to what 82 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 3: businesses should think about in terms of what's reasonable. So 83 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 3: it talks about, you know, what is the reason for 84 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 3: the contact, how is the contact made, and what's the 85 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 3: level of disruption that it might cause to the employee. 86 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 3: The extent to which the employee is compensated to work 87 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 3: outside of their usual hours, and that will be particularly 88 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 3: relevant for senior and well remunerated employees, for example. It 89 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 3: also looks at the employee's personal circumstances, so any family 90 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 3: or caring responsibilities they may have is also relevant. 91 00:04:58,000 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: Stay with me, Amanda, we'll be back in a minute. 92 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: I'm speaking to Amanda Lirius, partner in the Workplace Relations, 93 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: Employment and Safety team at Clayton Newt's. Okay, now, this 94 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: applies to primarily larger businesses. What's the cutoff there at 95 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: the moment, So at the. 96 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 3: Moment, this right applies to medium to large businesses. Small 97 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 3: businesses have been given a bit of relief. These rules 98 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 3: won't apply to them for a further twelve months or 99 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 3: twenty six August twenty twenty five is when most businesses 100 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 3: will then need to grapple with this near right. 101 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: Okay, And what is a small business? What's the definition 102 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: between a medium and a small business? 103 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 2: It's fifteen employees or. 104 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: Less, Okay, So I mean maybe it's not the actual 105 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: the absolute majority in terms of number, but many many 106 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: businesses have sixteen or more employees. So broadly, anyone employing 107 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: people should start thinking about it, even if you have 108 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: fewer because in the year's time, you're game to have 109 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: to think about it. 110 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 3: And I think this really ties in with workplace flexibility. 111 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 3: They do go hand in hand. We've seen a lot 112 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 3: of businesses introduced more flexible ways of working, and this 113 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 3: right to disconnect will need to be considered within that 114 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 3: broader flexibility framework. 115 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: Okay, so is there a chance this will backfire on 116 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: workplace flexibility is something that we've all become very used 117 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: to post COVID, Albeit there are many companies asking people 118 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: to come into the office more days. But I mean, 119 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: how does it sit with that workplace flexibility. 120 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 3: We've certainly seen some considerable debate about this in terms 121 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 3: of the unintended consequences. Obviously, flexibility is a two way street. 122 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 3: So to the extent that people want to take time 123 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 3: out of their working day to attend to personal matters, 124 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 3: there is usually then the expectation that they will then 125 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 3: log back on after hours to complete any work that 126 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 3: they weren't able to do during the working day. So 127 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 3: there will be an element of give and take, and 128 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 3: we may well see employees who've become used to the 129 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 3: luxury of flexibility, being quite open to working outside of 130 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 3: their ordinary But having said that, you know there will 131 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 3: be employees that will seek to leverage this right, and 132 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 3: we may well see employers insisting more firmly that employees 133 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 3: are back in your office during working hours where they 134 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 3: can be monitored. 135 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: Just just on that, I mean, this is a little 136 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: digression here. What are the rules around that? Can an 137 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: employer insists and an employee comes in five days a 138 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: week generally. 139 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 3: So typically it will be the employer's prerogative about hybrid 140 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: or flexible working practices and the extent to which people 141 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 3: are required to be in the office or not. There 142 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 3: is the ability for certain types of employees under the 143 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 3: Fair Work Gap to request flexible work arrangements, and there 144 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 3: are also the potential for employees to enter into individual 145 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 3: flexibility agreements with their employers. Those operate under a legislative 146 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 3: regime and will sort of sit separately to this right. 147 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 3: But putting aside those specific circumstances, employers will typically have 148 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 3: the ability to decide where where employees work and what 149 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 3: is required during the working day in terms of location. 150 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: Okay, so, based on your experience cloton News, do you 151 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: think business is ready for it? Have they paid enough 152 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: attention to it thus far? 153 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 3: Well funny you should ask that, Sean, because we've certainly 154 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 3: had a number of requests filtering today from a number 155 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 3: of our clients looking for some guidance on developing right 156 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 3: to disconnect policies and updating contracts and thinking about how 157 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 3: their framework should be molded. 158 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 2: To deal with this new right. 159 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 3: So I think some businesses have tried to get ahead 160 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 3: of the curb, but for the most part, I think 161 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 3: the majority of businesses are only really starting to grapple 162 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 3: with what is required. 163 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: Interesting crystal ball gazing here, what do you expect we 164 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: end up with? What do you mean? Do you think 165 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: this will fundamentally change the way we work or not? 166 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 3: I think it will mean that employers do think more 167 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 3: thoughtfully about how employer contact occurs through the organization. We 168 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 3: might see people, for example, putting delays on when emails 169 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 3: are ultimately sent through the system, or there may be 170 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 3: instant messaging applications that employers elect to wait till the 171 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 3: employer is logged on the following morning to receive that 172 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 3: message that might have been sent the night before. So 173 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 3: I think we will start to see particularly through the 174 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 3: use of technology, more thought given to how we are 175 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 3: contacting people out of ours I think ultimately it probably 176 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 3: won't disrupt too much the way we are working. 177 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 2: At the moment. 178 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 3: Probably more pressingly, this right, I think will be most 179 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 3: likely used by employees to leverage other types of employment 180 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 3: related claims. So, for example, the claim on the basis 181 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 3: that they tried to exercise their right to disconnect and 182 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 3: as a result they suffered some form of discipline, reaction 183 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 3: or dismissal. Those sorts of claims are probably quite likely 184 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 3: to be used by employees who may suffer those adverse 185 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 3: consequences and may try and point back to some exercise 186 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 3: of this right. 187 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: So that suggests probably the next few years is going 188 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,119 Speaker 1: to be a lot of great in this legislation. 189 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean, another issue that is likely to come 190 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 3: up is, you know, where employees are being performance managed 191 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 3: and to what extent they say that they were simply 192 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 3: trying to exercise their right to disconnect and we're not underperforming. 193 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 3: So there'll be some interesting areas where this right will 194 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 3: come to fruition and be something that employers need to 195 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 3: grapple with it and deal with. 196 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,719 Speaker 1: It'll be the prime Minister yesterday was talking about the 197 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: changes improving productivity. There are business groups saying quite the 198 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: opposite of the Prime Minister's view was that if you're 199 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: focused on the eight hours you work or them however 200 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: many hours you work and don't have to worry about it, 201 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: otherwise you'll be more productive. Without kind of coming down 202 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: on one side or the other on that particular argument, 203 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: it will certainly force some employers to change the way 204 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: they operate on a Amanda. 205 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 3: I absolutely agree that's the case. Again, it will come 206 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 3: down to the types of roles you have in your business, 207 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 3: the types of demands that employers might be dealing with. 208 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 3: Because don't forget, employers have got third parties need to 209 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,719 Speaker 3: respond to, particularly those who are in client facing industries. 210 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 3: They all be grappling with how to be on one hand, 211 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 3: support our employees right to switch off, but on the 212 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 3: other and sure that we're meeting service requirements. So there'll 213 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 3: be lots of different pressures from different size of the equation. 214 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: Now, not that I want to bring it up, but 215 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: law firms aren't exactly known as being the easiest places 216 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: to work. What are the law firms going to do, Amanda. 217 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 3: Well, the law firms, like all other organizations, will have 218 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 3: to look at their operations. Law firms are client facing industry. 219 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 3: You know, there is an expectation that people are going 220 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 3: to be available outside of the ordinary nine to five 221 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 3: working day to deal with any client issues or requests 222 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 3: that arise. Of course, law firms are also subject to 223 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 3: the work Health and Safety framework, as are all organizations, 224 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 3: and you know they'll be balancing those considerations as well 225 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 3: with in terms of ensuring that they minimize employee burnout 226 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 3: and maximize employee welfare, but at the same time imposing 227 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 3: reasonable requirements around service delivery. 228 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: Amanda, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. Thanks Shoormany, 229 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: there was Amanda Liara's partner in the Workplace Relations, Employment 230 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: and Safety team at Clayton Newts. This is a Fear 231 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: and Greed business interview. Join us every morning for the 232 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: full episode of Fear and Greed. Daily business news for 233 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 1: people who make their own decisions. I'm Sean Elmer. I 234 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: enjoy your today.