WEBVTT - A sister's promise | 12 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:05.520 I'll take you in and we'll start the search. Come on, 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:18.720 let's go quick, good boy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:20.880 How do you feel about the search Everychelle's car? 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:23.560 I guess it's something I've been wanting to know for 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:26.480 a really long time as to whether it was used 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:28.520 or not. And I don't know whether it's going to 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:31.880 give me those answers. And when I get the information, 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.280 I don't know what I'll do with that either, but 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.520 it will help us with the investigation because we want 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:40.480 to know if it was the car that was down 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:44.480 there and if it was used, because it paints part 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:47.239 of the story and it'll feel in some of the blanks. 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.040 I'm also kind of scared that it was used because 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:51.680 I want to restore it and I don't know. 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:52.519 How I feel about that. 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:58.760 Yeah, lots and mixed feelings. Yes quick, let's go. 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:07.000 Great, think a bed you're on, Mason, you know that. Hey, 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:13.000 good job, well done, excellent search. 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:21.000 I'm Ashley Hanson and you're listening to episode twelve of 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:25.120 Dear Rochelle, a podcast by True Crime Australia. This is 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.840 the untold story of Rochelle Charles, a twenty three year 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:30.360 old who was brutally murdered. 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:33.000 Her killer has never been caught. 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.000 We're on Christie's farm in the New England region of 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:49.920 New South Wales. Search Dog Sydney, a charity organization specializing 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.760 in search and recovery, are here too. Handlers Chris Darcy 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.840 and adel Jago are guiding their Cadava dogs, Rufus and Coha. 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:03.240 The dogs are trying to human remains scent. So human 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.320 remains sent can be many things. It can be human bones, 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:10.480 it can be different parts of human remains in different 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:14.040 decomposition states. But overall the dogs are trained to actually 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:17.799 generalize all of those scents together to then understand what 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:21.000 the human remains smell is to them, and then they 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:23.520 go and figure out that from what they're already smelling 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:24.440 within the environment. 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.079 We know that Rachelle's body is no longer in this car, 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.880 so what kind of hope is there to find any 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:35.040 evidence linked to the fact whether she was in the 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:37.520 car or not at a period of time that was 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:38.640 twenty three years ago. 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.480 At this stage, we don't believe that there's been Kadava 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:46.440 dogs actually searched the vehicle previously given the timeframe. Yes, 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:49.200 it comes down to what actually did occur. If she 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:52.760 was transported in this vehicle. But if there was any fluids, 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.480 if there was anything that she's given out, then potentially 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.440 that could be the lead that's needed. And this become 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:03.160 evidence more and until we either search the vehicle and 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:06.600 find that out, we're never going to know. So that's 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:07.680 what we're here today to do. 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:11.320 And so even twenty three years later, there's still a 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:15.399 chance that your dogs could detect if Rochelle's body had 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:16.440 been put in this car. 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:20.920 There is that small percentage of chance that's occurred. And 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.639 we based that on the fact that there's teams over 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:26.799 in the United States that are still searching for civil 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:30.480 war graves. Now those dogs are able to locate those 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.240 civil war graves in this day and age, and we 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.240 use that training over here in Australia to assist us 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:38.120 with our long term missing person's cases. 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:42.320 Christy is visibly anxious. Mindy, her best friend is buyer side. 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:45.200 As the dogs finished their final search of the vehicle, 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:49.480 both dogs went through the car separately twice. 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:53.160 So what was your take on that confirmed there is 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:58.200 some sort of presence there. Really, he even spent a 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:02.520 little bit more time inside in the back quarter. At 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:05.440 the back seat, I think the vehicle does need to 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:10.000 be further examined based on that information, even though there 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:14.520 was nothing clear. As soon as he came past the tire, 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:16.719 he gave me a strong head snap. 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:20.279 Chris was also interested to check out the Holden's petrol cap. 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.200 He used a screwdriver to carefully open it, cautious not 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:25.320 to contaminate it. 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:28.120 Why don't just have a quick look at the fuel lid. 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:30.960 I just want to see if it's been tested. No, 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.560 if it's been tested, how do you know, I wouldn't 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:35.800 want to see any fingerprint dust on that. No, we 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:37.320 can't see any fingerprint us there. 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:39.440 Surely they would have fingerprinted art. 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:42.039 It's pretty strong stuff back in the day. These days 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.760 it might, but back in the day I play technology 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:47.080 wasn't as good that they used and it really. 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.840 I remember it's hard to get off, like and then 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:53.080 you know it's there and you really have to scrub 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:53.400 it off. 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:56.640 Seven months on from the Kadava dog search, retired New 0:04:56.680 --> 0:05:00.160 South Wales detective and cold case expert Damien loon is 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.400 it's Christie's farm. This is the first time they've met 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:07.680 in person since Damien volunteered to help on Rochelle's case. 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:11.919 How are you I am covered in the dirt? I 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.760 really that's okay, thank you so much for coming pleasure. 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.400 You have the car, not yet you're going to show 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:20.560 me come on? 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:23.240 Wow. 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:28.080 Well that's that's remarkable, isn't it. Look I can still see, 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:30.640 you know, the beautiful color on it as well. 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:35.200 So we had cadava dogs go through the car ye, yeah, 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:40.159 and they picked up a scent in the boot side. 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:41.360 You're an open bot. 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:48.440 So the dog went through here and what he got 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:50.400 he got a scent over here, right. 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.440 So I think that this spare wheel used to make 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.320 a lot of noise, like it used to bang around. 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.320 So what is the iron before Rochelle had done or 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:02.320 shove a sheet down? 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:03.520 White sheet? 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.560 Yeah, And I think that's because the sheet obviously wasn't 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:08.280 in there later on. So I think that was the 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:09.560 sheet that they found. 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:11.200 At the Yeah, I'm saying. 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:13.880 So they were trying to find, you know, where that 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:15.560 sheet could have come from, but I'm pretty sure that 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.599 it came from the old owner. And I think it 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:21.680 was just the opportunistic to use the foot that. 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:22.120 Was in there. 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:23.679 Yeah, yeah, makes sense. 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:26.720 Yeah, I always hope that this car will never used 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:31.720 that it was in a different car down there. But yeah, 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.479 I think all signed points to yes, it was this 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:35.800 car highly likely. 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.520 Yeah, but if there was an indication of something that 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.520 was in here, and that's really that's a real strong 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:42.440 evident point. 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.159 It didn't bark, it's. 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.640 Passive, would just sit down with it. 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.320 He said that it was just the way they kept 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:52.920 going back to that spot. 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:55.599 That might be here indicator. Yeah, that's the handler would 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:59.080 know that. He would know that the demeanor of the dog, Yeah, 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:01.440 and he would know that's what he's telling me. He's 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.600 telling me that he's found something there, and he's excited 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:06.760 and his ears picked up and they get a tentative, 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:08.840 you know, and other dogs are just passing it. They 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:09.400 just sit down. 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:10.280 Like drug dogs. 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.280 If you're at the airport, drug dog will just sit down. Besides, 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.240 you won't lick anything. This is really like it's sort 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:20.240 of like all the cases you know, over the years 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:22.760 I've worked on, not just some homicides, but when he 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.040 comes to like a crime sen and you'll see what 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:26.520 I'm doing. I've got my hands in my pocket as 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.640 system natural instinct for me, and I don't touch anything. 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:30.000 Yeah. 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:34.080 The cadaver dog search prompted forensic investigators to seize the 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:38.520 petrol cap to test for fingerprints, but unfortunately, in April 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:46.600 twenty twenty five, Christy learned the testing yielded no results. 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:51.560 My name is doctor Julian Pomagani. I'm a retired forensic ziciatrist. 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:57.160 I was engaged by the Crown solictenor to help the 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:02.040 coronial inquiry on the death of Rachelle trials. I was 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.800 firstly a pair of fresh eyes on all the evidence, 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:08.720 but secondly I was also asked to help council formulate 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:13.040 questions that would perhaps draw the information out of the 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:17.160 many people who gave evidence, and some of whom were suspects. 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:21.280 We're taking you back into Rochelle's inquest now. The barrister, 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:25.880 doctor Parmezani was referring to is Peter Singleton. What advice 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:29.240 did you give to Peter Singleton about how he may 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:33.439 be able to induce some kind of information from a suspect. 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.520 Again, my advice is that it's very hard. I said, 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:39.560 You're looking at someone with a reptilian brain, a predator, 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:43.520 and to draw a predator out of its comfort zone 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:48.600 is very difficult because being predators, they expect others to 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:53.160 also be predators, and so they're very careful. I did 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.319 a little drawing of a crocodile in a lake where 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:57.720 you can only see the eyes coming out. I drew 0:08:57.760 --> 0:08:59.800 Peter on the side of the lake and say, well, 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.000 your job to draw that crocodile out if you can. 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:06.080 You looked at Rochelle's case in detail. What do you 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:07.360 believe happened to her? 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:07.840 Look? 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:10.640 I think my conclusion was that that was reached by 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:14.440 many people, someone that she knew and someone who had 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:18.160 lured her away from other people, so that to an 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.960 oscillated place and then killed her. And the reasons maybe 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:26.760 a range of reasons, but I think, in my opinion, 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:31.680 it was a plan that was formulated within days, not 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:36.040 weeks or months, affected fairly quickly, but also in not 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:39.240 a very organized way, so it was a. 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:41.240 Sloppy What do you think was the bait. 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:45.240 Well, it was something that she really wanted and perhaps 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:46.800 her defenses were lowered. 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:48.320 Do you think it was a walking shaw? 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:50.840 The most likely thing was a walking shaw. Whether it 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.280 was by a customer or a colleague, I don't know, 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:57.240 but I think there's enough evidence that she told others 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.040 that she was going to drive a walk in Shaw 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.280 on that weekend. She was very excited about it. 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.920 What was the motivation of her murder? Do you believe? 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:08.559 There are a number of possibilities. One of them might 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:12.760 have been that the perpetrator felt disrespected by her in 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:15.200 a day to day interaction. She might have said something 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.160 that made him really angry. So that there's a range 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:19.079 of possibilities. 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:23.559 Let's just explore those possibilities. The first one you mentioned 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.520 that she may have made him angry. Yes, were you 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:30.000 aware of anything that may have made any of the 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:31.400 men in her life angry? 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:36.679 Well, it could be something as banal as laughing at 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.480 someone in their face while talking to someone else, and 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:43.920 the subject of that feeling very disrespected and very angry with. 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:48.480 Your insights and your expertise as a psychiatrist, how would 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:53.160 that have been perceived by a man who may have 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:55.720 had an interest in Rochelle? 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.800 Well, either a man who had an interest in Rochelle 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:04.480 or a man who and let's say, a negative attitude 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:08.920 towards women. You know, to be offended by a group 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:14.319 of people that you intensely dislike and feel you should 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:17.040 be able to control would have been a great offense. 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:21.480 Let's explore the next theory a sexual motivation. Take me 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.760 into the mind of this possible attack. 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:31.280 Of someone who has developed a set of skills to 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:33.320 get their prey. You know, may have done it in 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:37.040 the past one or more times, may have developed a 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:41.800 motus operandi of luring the victim to a place using 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:46.240 a subterfuge and then basically making sure that there are 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:47.800 uninterrupted during the assault. 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:52.240 Can we step into the shoes of the killer and 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:53.600 who is this man? 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:57.040 What is his thoughts and his motive. 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:00.480 At the time of the crime? We look at with 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:05.240 psychopathic personality, basically doesn't care about the impact of his 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.760 actions on others, people that he's prepared to kill and 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:11.320 the family and friends of the victim. He doesn't care 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.560 about the consequences on them, as only worry about himself. 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:19.600 He sees himself as a predator acting only in his 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:23.240 own to his own advantage. I'm sure there is something 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:27.240 out there or someone who knows something that will bring 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:31.120 essentially a monster to be arrested. 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.520 You've heard Kevin Stephen Correll's alibi the Knight Rochelle died, 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:42.240 but the testimony you're about to hear cast doubts over 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.920 his version of events. Alice, which isn't her real name, 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:50.040 was Kevin's partner at the time. Their relationship was strained, 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:52.800 and she'd recently asked him to move out of her 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:55.720 home at Picton, but they were still seeing each other. 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.600 These are actors voicing Alice and Peter Singleton's exchange at 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:01.760 the inquest. 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:04.199 I want to ask you some questions about the week 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:07.800 that Rochelle died. I think yesterday you said, and I 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:11.360 think you mentioned it a moment ago that sometime towards 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:14.600 the beginning of that week, Kevin communicated something to you 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:19.120 about the coming Thursday. Firstly, when was that communication, to 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:20.680 the best of your present. 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:22.920 Recollection, around the Sunday or the Monday? 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:24.120 And what did he say? 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.079 Something to the effect of, look, I won't be able to. 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.280 Come meet you or have dinner on Thursday because I 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.440 want to go on by a birthday present for my son. 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:33.240 What did you say? 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.240 I said something like, well, I can come shopping. I'll 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:36.800 come shopping. 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:41.640 And was that kind invitation accepted by Kevin? No, what 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:42.480 did he say? 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:44.200 He said he wanted to do it on his own 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.720 because he wanted to go and pick something special. 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:51.000 Peter Singleton wanted to know what Alice remembered about Kevin's 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:54.640 behavior around the time Rachelle died, but he was also 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.640 keen to find out what she remembered about Kevin's general 0:13:57.720 --> 0:13:59.800 feelings about Rochelle over time. 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.880 One instance that sticks in my mind that I mentioned 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:06.120 yesterday that I will mention again is that he commented 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:10.080 about Rochelle's dress, and in particular an instance where she'd 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.640 worn makeup and she didn't look like the Rochelle. He 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.280 knew that she looked like someone else and she was unrecognizable, 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:17.720 and you know, she. 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:18.920 Looked like a tart basically. 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:21.760 And I was recalling myself that he had at some 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.720 time started to say to me things like you shouldn't 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:25.520 wear any makeup. 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:32.200 One of the lingering questions Peter Singleton was eager to 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.960 establish how did the Bargo Hotel become a focal point 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:39.680 in Rochelle's murder. We know her car was parked there 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:43.520 by somebody else. There were no confirmed sightings of Rochelle 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:46.440 at the pub that night, So what was her car 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:47.240 doing there? 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:49.680 Who was this mystery person she was. 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:54.240 Supposedly planning to meet? Or what if there was never 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.280 any meeting at the Bargo Hotel and it was all 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.960 part of her killer's plan. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.720 Did he say anything about overhearing Rochelle going to meet 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:05.000 someone at the Bargo Pub? 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.000 Yes, he did, that was I think. 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.120 I'm not sure when he told me this, whether it 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:12.680 was the day before or that day, but I know 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:14.800 he told me he got away from work later on 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.200 that Thursday than he expected to go shopping. 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:18.520 I don't know what. 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:20.680 Kind of trouble they'd had at work, but they got 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.880 kept late. Kevin had told her she couldn't leave until 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:25.800 she finished something, and they had an argument. 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:28.280 He told me that she said she was. 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:30.440 Going to meet somebody at the Bargo Pub and that 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.440 he made her complete whatever work was requested before she 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.120 went to that meeting. She got really annoyed with him, 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.560 and he said she snapped back at him and said. 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:41.600 Excuse me, will I just say it? 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:42.840 We've heard worse. 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.480 She said, Oh that's great. Now I can't wash my 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:50.480 fucking hair. I remember that distinctly. So he was annoyed 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.360 that she was going off to meet someone. They'd had 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.360 this argument and he'd made her stay back to do 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.520 this work whatever it was before she went to meet 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:01.800 the person. I'm not sure when he told me that, 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:03.640 whether it was that night or the day after. 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.840 On the night Rachelle was murdered, Kevin called Alice twice, 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.720 once at six thirty eight pm, and exactly an hour 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.479 lasuer again at seven thirty eight pm. 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:18.080 As of today, how many calls do you recall having 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:21.000 with Kevin Correll that night after you got home. 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:23.640 I think I spoke to him twice. I'm not one 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:27.200 hundred percent sure now, without reading through my statement, I 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:29.440 might have rung to ask whether he'd got the present 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.280 or just to speak with him. But I do recall 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:34.960 that later that night he rang me to ask if 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:37.600 he could come over, which seemed a bit odd because 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.080 he'd made such a deal about not seeing me on 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.960 that Thursday night. It was lateish for me. 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:45.360 I'm not sure what time it was, but. 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:47.960 I wouldn't have considered letting him come over at that 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:50.000 point because I'd already planned what I was doing for 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.800 the evening, so it was an unusual request. 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:54.200 I thought, what was. 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:55.960 His tone like in that phone call? 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.800 It was a I wondered why. 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:03.040 I can't recall his tone exactly, but I do remember thinking, 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:05.160 why does he all of a sudden want to come over? 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:07.600 So there would have been a sense of you know, 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.200 I actually thought, what's wrong? 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:11.200 That was my feeling. 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.680 I don't remember his tone, but I remember thinking, what's 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.760 up that you'd even make that request? He knew I 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.640 was an early to bed person, and after making such 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:24.840 a fuss about not getting together on that Thursday, why 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:26.679 would he call it, say, quarter. 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:27.880 To eight, and asked to come over. 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.040 I found that unusual too, and I think I was 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:35.760 probably left with a bit of a question like, well, 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.560 that was odd or why he said something like he 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:41.520 just wanted to see me. 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.040 But that didn't seem right either, So I was left 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:47.080 with a bit of a question as to why I 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:47.920 got that call. 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:50.640 I asked him what he was doing, and he said 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.280 he was at home. So that was my other reason 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.840 for thinking that he was at home when that phone 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.600 call was made, and that he said he was just 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:01.280 going to have pizza and having an early night, so 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:04.159 which was a regular behavior for him, Like that's what 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:04.560 he did. 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:05.919 I don't think he cooked a lot. 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.439 For himself, so he would have gone and got a 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.800 pizza and taken it back to the unit to eat. 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.640 So my understanding that night was that he was having 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:15.680 pizza at home and having an early night. 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:20.360 Remember Kevin told detectives in his police interview a very 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:24.160 different food order from a takeaway shop in Tarmil. 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:28.840 Here is an actor voicing his statement, fish. 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:33.960 Cake, bat and sav a bag of chips and a cake. Well, yeah, 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:37.800 I love fish and chips. Once I'll change that and 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.680 get a fish cake and a battered salv and chips. 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:47.840 I've done it twice this week. Did you say that 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.720 you thought there might have been another phone call with 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:51.600 Kevin that night? 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:54.439 I don't know whether it was that night or the 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.440 next day, but I had another phone call from him, 0:18:57.880 --> 0:18:59.840 and the next time I spoke to him, he rang 0:18:59.880 --> 0:19:04.360 me and he was very upset and totally out of character. 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.680 I don't think i'd ever heard that side of him. 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:08.800 Remorseful. 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:11.439 He said things like I just want to tell you 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.560 how sorry I am, and I wanted to tell you 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:18.359 I am so sorry for treating you so badly. I 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.200 remember thinking, what is this about? 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:23.399 Now? Where did this come from? 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:27.600 Because we hadn't argued, and I was left wondering what 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.680 the hell had happened because he sounded like someone had 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.320 died or something. And one of my things is I 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:35.879 talk a lot with my girlfriends, and I remember saying 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:37.840 with one, well, we all knew he was a bit 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:39.720 of a creep in a sense, but I was still 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:43.760 seeing him, but the relationship had finished, so he knew that. 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.600 And then I get these phone calls and I said, 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:47.040 what do you. 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:48.199 Think this one's about? 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:50.840 You know, why would you suddenly ring me out of 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:55.160 the blue and start apologizing. So he was so upset, 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.879 you know, he'd done like it was a very emotional 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.159 phone call that he'd made, and it was left a 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.679 bit flat on me because I didn't know where it 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:05.520 was coming from and what it was about. 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.240 And I said to a girlfriend, you know, this sounds awful, 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:10.800 but I actually laughed. 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.120 I thought it was kind of funny, thinking what's going on? 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:17.880 What's he done this time? What the hell was that about? 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:21.680 It sounded like somebody died or he got jilted by 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:25.080 a girlfriend or something, And at that point in that relationship, 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:25.680 I was. 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:27.359 Not surprised if there were other people. 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:31.280 That's the conclusion we drew, just being totally hypothetical, and 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:34.080 we had a laugh because we thought, what's the game now, 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:38.000 or what's all that about? 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:41.240 How was Kevin's mood on the Saturday. 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:47.760 I don't really recall there's nothing more serious, more sensible, 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:51.480