Speaker 1: I'll take you in and we'll start the search. Come on,
Speaker 1: let's go quick, good boy? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: How do you feel about the search Everychelle's car?
Speaker 3: I guess it's something I've been wanting to know for
Speaker 3: a really long time as to whether it was used
Speaker 3: or not. And I don't know whether it's going to
Speaker 3: give me those answers. And when I get the information,
Speaker 3: I don't know what I'll do with that either, but
Speaker 3: it will help us with the investigation because we want
Speaker 3: to know if it was the car that was down
Speaker 3: there and if it was used, because it paints part
Speaker 3: of the story and it'll feel in some of the blanks.
Speaker 3: I'm also kind of scared that it was used because
Speaker 3: I want to restore it and I don't know.
Speaker 4: How I feel about that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, lots and mixed feelings. Yes quick, let's go.
Speaker 1: Great, think a bed you're on, Mason, you know that. Hey,
Speaker 1: good job, well done, excellent search.
Speaker 6: I'm Ashley Hanson and you're listening to episode twelve of
Speaker 6: Dear Rochelle, a podcast by True Crime Australia. This is
Speaker 6: the untold story of Rochelle Charles, a twenty three year
Speaker 6: old who was brutally murdered.
Speaker 2: Her killer has never been caught.
Speaker 6: We're on Christie's farm in the New England region of
Speaker 6: New South Wales. Search Dog Sydney, a charity organization specializing
Speaker 6: in search and recovery, are here too. Handlers Chris Darcy
Speaker 6: and adel Jago are guiding their Cadava dogs, Rufus and Coha.
Speaker 1: The dogs are trying to human remains scent. So human
Speaker 1: remains sent can be many things. It can be human bones,
Speaker 1: it can be different parts of human remains in different
Speaker 1: decomposition states. But overall the dogs are trained to actually
Speaker 1: generalize all of those scents together to then understand what
Speaker 1: the human remains smell is to them, and then they
Speaker 1: go and figure out that from what they're already smelling
Speaker 1: within the environment.
Speaker 6: We know that Rachelle's body is no longer in this car,
Speaker 6: so what kind of hope is there to find any
Speaker 6: evidence linked to the fact whether she was in the
Speaker 6: car or not at a period of time that was
Speaker 6: twenty three years ago.
Speaker 1: At this stage, we don't believe that there's been Kadava
Speaker 1: dogs actually searched the vehicle previously given the timeframe. Yes,
Speaker 1: it comes down to what actually did occur. If she
Speaker 1: was transported in this vehicle. But if there was any fluids,
Speaker 1: if there was anything that she's given out, then potentially
Speaker 1: that could be the lead that's needed. And this become
Speaker 1: evidence more and until we either search the vehicle and
Speaker 1: find that out, we're never going to know. So that's
Speaker 1: what we're here today to do.
Speaker 6: And so even twenty three years later, there's still a
Speaker 6: chance that your dogs could detect if Rochelle's body had
Speaker 6: been put in this car.
Speaker 1: There is that small percentage of chance that's occurred. And
Speaker 1: we based that on the fact that there's teams over
Speaker 1: in the United States that are still searching for civil
Speaker 1: war graves. Now those dogs are able to locate those
Speaker 1: civil war graves in this day and age, and we
Speaker 1: use that training over here in Australia to assist us
Speaker 1: with our long term missing person's cases.
Speaker 6: Christy is visibly anxious. Mindy, her best friend is buyer side.
Speaker 6: As the dogs finished their final search of the vehicle,
Speaker 6: both dogs went through the car separately twice.
Speaker 1: So what was your take on that confirmed there is
Speaker 1: some sort of presence there. Really, he even spent a
Speaker 1: little bit more time inside in the back quarter. At
Speaker 1: the back seat, I think the vehicle does need to
Speaker 1: be further examined based on that information, even though there
Speaker 1: was nothing clear. As soon as he came past the tire,
Speaker 1: he gave me a strong head snap.
Speaker 6: Chris was also interested to check out the Holden's petrol cap.
Speaker 6: He used a screwdriver to carefully open it, cautious not
Speaker 6: to contaminate it.
Speaker 1: Why don't just have a quick look at the fuel lid.
Speaker 1: I just want to see if it's been tested. No,
Speaker 1: if it's been tested, how do you know, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: want to see any fingerprint dust on that. No, we
Speaker 1: can't see any fingerprint us there.
Speaker 5: Surely they would have fingerprinted art.
Speaker 1: It's pretty strong stuff back in the day. These days
Speaker 1: it might, but back in the day I play technology
Speaker 1: wasn't as good that they used and it really.
Speaker 7: I remember it's hard to get off, like and then
Speaker 7: you know it's there and you really have to scrub
Speaker 7: it off.
Speaker 6: Seven months on from the Kadava dog search, retired New
Speaker 6: South Wales detective and cold case expert Damien loon is
Speaker 6: it's Christie's farm. This is the first time they've met
Speaker 6: in person since Damien volunteered to help on Rochelle's case.
Speaker 3: How are you I am covered in the dirt? I
Speaker 3: really that's okay, thank you so much for coming pleasure.
Speaker 4: You have the car, not yet you're going to show
Speaker 4: me come on?
Speaker 8: Wow.
Speaker 9: Well that's that's remarkable, isn't it. Look I can still see,
Speaker 9: you know, the beautiful color on it as well.
Speaker 3: So we had cadava dogs go through the car ye, yeah,
Speaker 3: and they picked up a scent in the boot side.
Speaker 8: You're an open bot.
Speaker 9: So the dog went through here and what he got
Speaker 9: he got a scent over here, right.
Speaker 3: So I think that this spare wheel used to make
Speaker 3: a lot of noise, like it used to bang around.
Speaker 3: So what is the iron before Rochelle had done or
Speaker 3: shove a sheet down?
Speaker 9: White sheet?
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that's because the sheet obviously wasn't
Speaker 3: in there later on. So I think that was the
Speaker 3: sheet that they found.
Speaker 9: At the Yeah, I'm saying.
Speaker 3: So they were trying to find, you know, where that
Speaker 3: sheet could have come from, but I'm pretty sure that
Speaker 3: it came from the old owner. And I think it
Speaker 3: was just the opportunistic to use the foot that.
Speaker 4: Was in there.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, makes sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I always hope that this car will never used
Speaker 3: that it was in a different car down there. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I think all signed points to yes, it was this
Speaker 3: car highly likely.
Speaker 9: Yeah, but if there was an indication of something that
Speaker 9: was in here, and that's really that's a real strong
Speaker 9: evident point.
Speaker 5: It didn't bark, it's.
Speaker 9: Passive, would just sit down with it.
Speaker 3: He said that it was just the way they kept
Speaker 3: going back to that spot.
Speaker 9: That might be here indicator. Yeah, that's the handler would
Speaker 9: know that. He would know that the demeanor of the dog, Yeah,
Speaker 9: and he would know that's what he's telling me. He's
Speaker 9: telling me that he's found something there, and he's excited
Speaker 9: and his ears picked up and they get a tentative,
Speaker 9: you know, and other dogs are just passing it. They
Speaker 9: just sit down.
Speaker 4: Like drug dogs.
Speaker 9: If you're at the airport, drug dog will just sit down. Besides,
Speaker 9: you won't lick anything. This is really like it's sort
Speaker 9: of like all the cases you know, over the years
Speaker 9: I've worked on, not just some homicides, but when he
Speaker 9: comes to like a crime sen and you'll see what
Speaker 9: I'm doing. I've got my hands in my pocket as
Speaker 9: system natural instinct for me, and I don't touch anything.
Speaker 10: Yeah.
Speaker 6: The cadaver dog search prompted forensic investigators to seize the
Speaker 6: petrol cap to test for fingerprints, but unfortunately, in April
Speaker 6: twenty twenty five, Christy learned the testing yielded no results.
Speaker 11: My name is doctor Julian Pomagani. I'm a retired forensic ziciatrist.
Speaker 11: I was engaged by the Crown solictenor to help the
Speaker 11: coronial inquiry on the death of Rachelle trials. I was
Speaker 11: firstly a pair of fresh eyes on all the evidence,
Speaker 11: but secondly I was also asked to help council formulate
Speaker 11: questions that would perhaps draw the information out of the
Speaker 11: many people who gave evidence, and some of whom were suspects.
Speaker 6: We're taking you back into Rochelle's inquest now. The barrister,
Speaker 6: doctor Parmezani was referring to is Peter Singleton. What advice
Speaker 6: did you give to Peter Singleton about how he may
Speaker 6: be able to induce some kind of information from a suspect.
Speaker 11: Again, my advice is that it's very hard. I said,
Speaker 11: You're looking at someone with a reptilian brain, a predator,
Speaker 11: and to draw a predator out of its comfort zone
Speaker 11: is very difficult because being predators, they expect others to
Speaker 11: also be predators, and so they're very careful. I did
Speaker 11: a little drawing of a crocodile in a lake where
Speaker 11: you can only see the eyes coming out. I drew
Speaker 11: Peter on the side of the lake and say, well,
Speaker 11: your job to draw that crocodile out if you can.
Speaker 6: You looked at Rochelle's case in detail. What do you
Speaker 6: believe happened to her?
Speaker 2: Look?
Speaker 11: I think my conclusion was that that was reached by
Speaker 11: many people, someone that she knew and someone who had
Speaker 11: lured her away from other people, so that to an
Speaker 11: oscillated place and then killed her. And the reasons maybe
Speaker 11: a range of reasons, but I think, in my opinion,
Speaker 11: it was a plan that was formulated within days, not
Speaker 11: weeks or months, affected fairly quickly, but also in not
Speaker 11: a very organized way, so it was a.
Speaker 2: Sloppy What do you think was the bait.
Speaker 11: Well, it was something that she really wanted and perhaps
Speaker 11: her defenses were lowered.
Speaker 2: Do you think it was a walking shaw?
Speaker 11: The most likely thing was a walking shaw. Whether it
Speaker 11: was by a customer or a colleague, I don't know,
Speaker 11: but I think there's enough evidence that she told others
Speaker 11: that she was going to drive a walk in Shaw
Speaker 11: on that weekend. She was very excited about it.
Speaker 2: What was the motivation of her murder? Do you believe?
Speaker 11: There are a number of possibilities. One of them might
Speaker 11: have been that the perpetrator felt disrespected by her in
Speaker 11: a day to day interaction. She might have said something
Speaker 11: that made him really angry. So that there's a range
Speaker 11: of possibilities.
Speaker 6: Let's just explore those possibilities. The first one you mentioned
Speaker 6: that she may have made him angry. Yes, were you
Speaker 6: aware of anything that may have made any of the
Speaker 6: men in her life angry?
Speaker 11: Well, it could be something as banal as laughing at
Speaker 11: someone in their face while talking to someone else, and
Speaker 11: the subject of that feeling very disrespected and very angry with.
Speaker 6: Your insights and your expertise as a psychiatrist, how would
Speaker 6: that have been perceived by a man who may have
Speaker 6: had an interest in Rochelle?
Speaker 11: Well, either a man who had an interest in Rochelle
Speaker 11: or a man who and let's say, a negative attitude
Speaker 11: towards women. You know, to be offended by a group
Speaker 11: of people that you intensely dislike and feel you should
Speaker 11: be able to control would have been a great offense.
Speaker 6: Let's explore the next theory a sexual motivation. Take me
Speaker 6: into the mind of this possible attack.
Speaker 11: Of someone who has developed a set of skills to
Speaker 11: get their prey. You know, may have done it in
Speaker 11: the past one or more times, may have developed a
Speaker 11: motus operandi of luring the victim to a place using
Speaker 11: a subterfuge and then basically making sure that there are
Speaker 11: uninterrupted during the assault.
Speaker 6: Can we step into the shoes of the killer and
Speaker 6: who is this man?
Speaker 2: What is his thoughts and his motive.
Speaker 11: At the time of the crime? We look at with
Speaker 11: psychopathic personality, basically doesn't care about the impact of his
Speaker 11: actions on others, people that he's prepared to kill and
Speaker 11: the family and friends of the victim. He doesn't care
Speaker 11: about the consequences on them, as only worry about himself.
Speaker 11: He sees himself as a predator acting only in his
Speaker 11: own to his own advantage. I'm sure there is something
Speaker 11: out there or someone who knows something that will bring
Speaker 11: essentially a monster to be arrested.
Speaker 6: You've heard Kevin Stephen Correll's alibi the Knight Rochelle died,
Speaker 6: but the testimony you're about to hear cast doubts over
Speaker 6: his version of events. Alice, which isn't her real name,
Speaker 6: was Kevin's partner at the time. Their relationship was strained,
Speaker 6: and she'd recently asked him to move out of her
Speaker 6: home at Picton, but they were still seeing each other.
Speaker 6: These are actors voicing Alice and Peter Singleton's exchange at
Speaker 6: the inquest.
Speaker 4: I want to ask you some questions about the week
Speaker 4: that Rochelle died. I think yesterday you said, and I
Speaker 4: think you mentioned it a moment ago that sometime towards
Speaker 4: the beginning of that week, Kevin communicated something to you
Speaker 4: about the coming Thursday. Firstly, when was that communication, to
Speaker 4: the best of your present.
Speaker 5: Recollection, around the Sunday or the Monday?
Speaker 4: And what did he say?
Speaker 5: Something to the effect of, look, I won't be able to.
Speaker 7: Come meet you or have dinner on Thursday because I
Speaker 7: want to go on by a birthday present for my son.
Speaker 4: What did you say?
Speaker 7: I said something like, well, I can come shopping. I'll
Speaker 7: come shopping.
Speaker 4: And was that kind invitation accepted by Kevin? No, what
Speaker 4: did he say?
Speaker 7: He said he wanted to do it on his own
Speaker 7: because he wanted to go and pick something special.
Speaker 6: Peter Singleton wanted to know what Alice remembered about Kevin's
Speaker 6: behavior around the time Rachelle died, but he was also
Speaker 6: keen to find out what she remembered about Kevin's general
Speaker 6: feelings about Rochelle over time.
Speaker 7: One instance that sticks in my mind that I mentioned
Speaker 7: yesterday that I will mention again is that he commented
Speaker 7: about Rochelle's dress, and in particular an instance where she'd
Speaker 7: worn makeup and she didn't look like the Rochelle. He
Speaker 7: knew that she looked like someone else and she was unrecognizable,
Speaker 7: and you know, she.
Speaker 5: Looked like a tart basically.
Speaker 7: And I was recalling myself that he had at some
Speaker 7: time started to say to me things like you shouldn't
Speaker 7: wear any makeup.
Speaker 6: One of the lingering questions Peter Singleton was eager to
Speaker 6: establish how did the Bargo Hotel become a focal point
Speaker 6: in Rochelle's murder. We know her car was parked there
Speaker 6: by somebody else. There were no confirmed sightings of Rochelle
Speaker 6: at the pub that night, So what was her car
Speaker 6: doing there?
Speaker 2: Who was this mystery person she was.
Speaker 6: Supposedly planning to meet? Or what if there was never
Speaker 6: any meeting at the Bargo Hotel and it was all
Speaker 6: part of her killer's plan.
Speaker 4: Did he say anything about overhearing Rochelle going to meet
Speaker 4: someone at the Bargo Pub?
Speaker 5: Yes, he did, that was I think.
Speaker 7: I'm not sure when he told me this, whether it
Speaker 7: was the day before or that day, but I know
Speaker 7: he told me he got away from work later on
Speaker 7: that Thursday than he expected to go shopping.
Speaker 5: I don't know what.
Speaker 7: Kind of trouble they'd had at work, but they got
Speaker 7: kept late. Kevin had told her she couldn't leave until
Speaker 7: she finished something, and they had an argument.
Speaker 5: He told me that she said she was.
Speaker 7: Going to meet somebody at the Bargo Pub and that
Speaker 7: he made her complete whatever work was requested before she
Speaker 7: went to that meeting. She got really annoyed with him,
Speaker 7: and he said she snapped back at him and said.
Speaker 5: Excuse me, will I just say it?
Speaker 4: We've heard worse.
Speaker 7: She said, Oh that's great. Now I can't wash my
Speaker 7: fucking hair. I remember that distinctly. So he was annoyed
Speaker 7: that she was going off to meet someone. They'd had
Speaker 7: this argument and he'd made her stay back to do
Speaker 7: this work whatever it was before she went to meet
Speaker 7: the person. I'm not sure when he told me that,
Speaker 7: whether it was that night or the day after.
Speaker 6: On the night Rachelle was murdered, Kevin called Alice twice,
Speaker 6: once at six thirty eight pm, and exactly an hour
Speaker 6: lasuer again at seven thirty eight pm.
Speaker 4: As of today, how many calls do you recall having
Speaker 4: with Kevin Correll that night after you got home.
Speaker 7: I think I spoke to him twice. I'm not one
Speaker 7: hundred percent sure now, without reading through my statement, I
Speaker 7: might have rung to ask whether he'd got the present
Speaker 7: or just to speak with him. But I do recall
Speaker 7: that later that night he rang me to ask if
Speaker 7: he could come over, which seemed a bit odd because
Speaker 7: he'd made such a deal about not seeing me on
Speaker 7: that Thursday night. It was lateish for me.
Speaker 5: I'm not sure what time it was, but.
Speaker 7: I wouldn't have considered letting him come over at that
Speaker 7: point because I'd already planned what I was doing for
Speaker 7: the evening, so it was an unusual request.
Speaker 5: I thought, what was.
Speaker 4: His tone like in that phone call?
Speaker 5: It was a I wondered why.
Speaker 7: I can't recall his tone exactly, but I do remember thinking,
Speaker 7: why does he all of a sudden want to come over?
Speaker 7: So there would have been a sense of you know,
Speaker 7: I actually thought, what's wrong?
Speaker 5: That was my feeling.
Speaker 7: I don't remember his tone, but I remember thinking, what's
Speaker 7: up that you'd even make that request? He knew I
Speaker 7: was an early to bed person, and after making such
Speaker 7: a fuss about not getting together on that Thursday, why
Speaker 7: would he call it, say, quarter.
Speaker 5: To eight, and asked to come over.
Speaker 7: I found that unusual too, and I think I was
Speaker 7: probably left with a bit of a question like, well,
Speaker 7: that was odd or why he said something like he
Speaker 7: just wanted to see me.
Speaker 5: But that didn't seem right either, So I was left
Speaker 5: with a bit of a question as to why I
Speaker 5: got that call.
Speaker 7: I asked him what he was doing, and he said
Speaker 7: he was at home. So that was my other reason
Speaker 7: for thinking that he was at home when that phone
Speaker 7: call was made, and that he said he was just
Speaker 7: going to have pizza and having an early night, so
Speaker 7: which was a regular behavior for him, Like that's what
Speaker 7: he did.
Speaker 5: I don't think he cooked a lot.
Speaker 7: For himself, so he would have gone and got a
Speaker 7: pizza and taken it back to the unit to eat.
Speaker 7: So my understanding that night was that he was having
Speaker 7: pizza at home and having an early night.
Speaker 6: Remember Kevin told detectives in his police interview a very
Speaker 6: different food order from a takeaway shop in Tarmil.
Speaker 2: Here is an actor voicing his statement, fish.
Speaker 4: Cake, bat and sav a bag of chips and a cake. Well, yeah,
Speaker 4: I love fish and chips. Once I'll change that and
Speaker 4: get a fish cake and a battered salv and chips.
Speaker 4: I've done it twice this week. Did you say that
Speaker 4: you thought there might have been another phone call with
Speaker 4: Kevin that night?
Speaker 7: I don't know whether it was that night or the
Speaker 7: next day, but I had another phone call from him,
Speaker 7: and the next time I spoke to him, he rang
Speaker 7: me and he was very upset and totally out of character.
Speaker 7: I don't think i'd ever heard that side of him.
Speaker 5: Remorseful.
Speaker 7: He said things like I just want to tell you
Speaker 7: how sorry I am, and I wanted to tell you
Speaker 7: I am so sorry for treating you so badly. I
Speaker 7: remember thinking, what is this about?
Speaker 5: Now? Where did this come from?
Speaker 7: Because we hadn't argued, and I was left wondering what
Speaker 7: the hell had happened because he sounded like someone had
Speaker 7: died or something. And one of my things is I
Speaker 7: talk a lot with my girlfriends, and I remember saying
Speaker 7: with one, well, we all knew he was a bit
Speaker 7: of a creep in a sense, but I was still
Speaker 7: seeing him, but the relationship had finished, so he knew that.
Speaker 7: And then I get these phone calls and I said,
Speaker 7: what do you.
Speaker 5: Think this one's about?
Speaker 7: You know, why would you suddenly ring me out of
Speaker 7: the blue and start apologizing. So he was so upset,
Speaker 7: you know, he'd done like it was a very emotional
Speaker 7: phone call that he'd made, and it was left a
Speaker 7: bit flat on me because I didn't know where it
Speaker 7: was coming from and what it was about.
Speaker 5: And I said to a girlfriend, you know, this sounds awful,
Speaker 5: but I actually laughed.
Speaker 7: I thought it was kind of funny, thinking what's going on?
Speaker 7: What's he done this time? What the hell was that about?
Speaker 7: It sounded like somebody died or he got jilted by
Speaker 7: a girlfriend or something, And at that point in that relationship,
Speaker 7: I was.
Speaker 5: Not surprised if there were other people.
Speaker 7: That's the conclusion we drew, just being totally hypothetical, and
Speaker 7: we had a laugh because we thought, what's the game now,
Speaker 7: or what's all that about?
Speaker 4: How was Kevin's mood on the Saturday.
Speaker 7: I don't really recall there's nothing more serious, more sensible,
Speaker 7: even cool. Like on that Saturday, because he was around me,
Speaker 7: he was being normal, to my normalody. He seemed to
Speaker 7: change to who he was with.
Speaker 5: After a phone call.
Speaker 4: Was he acting? I think he always acted after the
Speaker 4: phone call you were going to say.
Speaker 5: Later in the day.
Speaker 7: I don't recall when either Rochelle's father or Kevin rang
Speaker 7: and they spoke.
Speaker 4: Did you hear any of the conversation.
Speaker 7: He would have been near me, but not right near me.
Speaker 7: I didn't hear the conversation, but I remember Kevin just saying,
Speaker 7: I don't know where she is, and I remember feeling
Speaker 7: at that point feeling concerned that.
Speaker 10: Well.
Speaker 7: Firstly, I had the next question, which was like, why
Speaker 7: is her father wringing you? Why would you know where
Speaker 7: your work? I don't know who my work colleagues are
Speaker 7: on the weekend. I didn't understand that. Nothing much more
Speaker 7: was said about it, and then I did think that
Speaker 7: it must be really something must be wrong, because you know,
Speaker 7: her father must have wrung you for a reason, like
Speaker 7: extenuating circumstances to go out of his way and ring Kevin.
Speaker 5: So I was concerned for Rochelle.
Speaker 7: I didn't know Rachelle, but I think he might have
Speaker 7: then moved into worry mode, which again I say that terribly,
Speaker 7: but I feel, I don't feel, I don't.
Speaker 5: Think that was real.
Speaker 6: Most of the staff at Camden Holden were informed on
Speaker 6: the Sunday of the June long Weekeent that Rochelle's body
Speaker 6: had been found and Bealice were treating her death as
Speaker 6: a murder. Peter Singleton's now asking Alice what Kevin's mood
Speaker 6: was like the next day, the Monday, it was a
Speaker 6: public holiday.
Speaker 7: Yeah, agitated, agitated and you know, like this and needed
Speaker 7: to get in the car and drive, and I was
Speaker 7: just trying to accommodate, knowing that this was a very
Speaker 7: bizarre situation. And so then we drove from my place
Speaker 7: to Bargo. From memory, and you know, he said that's
Speaker 7: where it had happened. I think this is the day
Speaker 7: he did that. And I remember he went across the
Speaker 7: bridge and drove past the hotel where she was last seen,
Speaker 7: and then chuck to Uturn. There's a car park there,
Speaker 7: looked in the car park and then continued down.
Speaker 4: When you say he looked in the car park, did
Speaker 4: he get out of the vehicle, Well, yeah.
Speaker 7: Kind of like looking where it had happened, you know,
Speaker 7: looking at the place, looking at the.
Speaker 4: Do you know at the time that the car park
Speaker 4: had any significance.
Speaker 7: He told me that she'd gone missing and that her
Speaker 7: car was there, had been left there. I think this
Speaker 7: was on that day. I'm not sure which bridge we
Speaker 7: came back across. There's two bridges in Bargo, but we
Speaker 7: drove up like a little way and I said, why
Speaker 7: are we driving up here? And he said, she used
Speaker 7: to live here, like in Bargo and I said, oh,
Speaker 7: Like I was then thinking like, how come you know
Speaker 7: where she lives?
Speaker 5: Or why do you know where she lives?
Speaker 7: And he said, I said, does she live here or
Speaker 7: in this area? And he said, oh, she lived somewhere
Speaker 7: here on land and left it at that. He was
Speaker 7: going south and then said he needed to go to
Speaker 7: Campbelltown to the dealership there.
Speaker 8: I'm David Simon's I was a year's car manager at
Speaker 8: Cambellton with the Paul Wakelington Group at the time of
Speaker 8: Rochelle Charles murder.
Speaker 2: When did you first learn about Rochelle's death?
Speaker 8: It would have been the Monday of the Long weekend.
Speaker 8: I had a phone call to say that something had
Speaker 8: happened or she'd been found.
Speaker 7: Kevin became increasingly upset, and he asked, you know, if
Speaker 7: we could.
Speaker 5: He wanted to go to Campbelltown.
Speaker 7: So he went out to the expressway, turned left onto
Speaker 7: the expressway, drove through to Campbelltown, Holton.
Speaker 8: And then later in the day. Later that morning, Kevin
Speaker 8: turned up at the our dealership at Campbelltown and basically
Speaker 8: told me what he thought it happened, or told me
Speaker 8: that she'd been.
Speaker 7: Found, and a lot of the people there were working,
Speaker 7: and I didn't feel it was my place to.
Speaker 5: Get out of the car.
Speaker 8: Yeah, there was a lady in the car with him,
Speaker 8: which I thought was his wife, but really not one
Speaker 8: hundred percent.
Speaker 7: I don't know whether he was crying, but he was
Speaker 7: really grieved at the dealership in Campbelltown.
Speaker 5: It was sudden when he got out of the car.
Speaker 6: How would you describe Kevin's emotional state when you were
Speaker 6: talking to him at Campbelltown.
Speaker 8: Yeah, very emotional. There's a lot of tears and and
Speaker 8: blubbering and shaking. So yeah, that seemed like he was
Speaker 8: quite upset.
Speaker 6: Did you do a formal statement with police at the time.
Speaker 6: I did, And what memories do you have of that statement,
Speaker 6: what stands out to you in your memory?
Speaker 2: Now thinking back, the.
Speaker 8: Only thing that stands out a lot to me is
Speaker 8: where he came up with that statement or the assumption
Speaker 8: that the rebels were involved. It just seemed like a long,
Speaker 8: long winded drawer and something for no reason to bring
Speaker 8: that up to me at the time. I don't know what.
Speaker 2: Sort of a car salesman was.
Speaker 8: He very old school. I always thought he was a
Speaker 8: bit shifty, but that's a personal thing. I had no
Speaker 8: experience of it myself. He pumped himself up a lot
Speaker 8: as about how good he was and what he'd done,
Speaker 8: but the figures didn't show what he was pumping up.
Speaker 6: In the used car industry at the time. What was
Speaker 6: the dynamic of a typical mentor and mentee relationship.
Speaker 8: Well, you had to try and your knowledge onto whoever
Speaker 8: you were training, to teach them how the business works,
Speaker 8: what to do, how to great purple meet people, how
Speaker 8: to be social with your client, and how to sell
Speaker 8: a product.
Speaker 6: And from what you saw of Kevin and Rachelle's relationship,
Speaker 6: is that what you would say was typical.
Speaker 8: Seemed a bit well. It sounded a different relationship to
Speaker 8: what you'd have who felt was a sales man, not
Speaker 8: a saleswoman that was involved. They seemed a bit a
Speaker 8: bit too close for what the situation was, if that
Speaker 8: makes sense.
Speaker 2: Have you ever reflected on that and what do you
Speaker 2: make of it now? Upon reflection, Yeah, I.
Speaker 8: Thought about it. It would have it appeared that she
Speaker 8: was when I saw him out at the auctions, that
Speaker 8: looked like she was following him around like a little puppy,
Speaker 8: and he was sort of say, showing her off, but
Speaker 8: letting everyone know that she was there with him.
Speaker 6: How often would you see Kevin at the auctions and
Speaker 6: would he ever be trying to buy a walking shore?
Speaker 6: Is that something that would have been within his capacity
Speaker 6: as a used car manager.
Speaker 8: Well as the USCAP manager. He had the capabilities to
Speaker 8: buy any vehicle that they're necessary for the dealership, So yeah,
Speaker 8: that's possible. I never sorry trying to buy a walk
Speaker 8: control of it.
Speaker 6: Have you ever heard that he had promised Rashell a
Speaker 6: walk in shore for the Dune Long weekend?
Speaker 8: I definitely hadn't heard that. I heard that after the fact,
Speaker 8: but I'm not prior to or that didn't come up
Speaker 8: in conversation with me that that had been promised, which
Speaker 8: would seem strange that you would give a young girl
Speaker 8: like that that sort of vehicle for a weekend holiday car.
Speaker 2: Why would that be strange?
Speaker 8: Well, insurance for a start, it's a very expensive motor car,
Speaker 8: high powered unit, and it's not normally you wouldn't even
Speaker 8: give that your one of your salesman drive.
Speaker 6: Again, so you believe that that was It's not something
Speaker 6: that would typically happen that a young saleswoman would be
Speaker 6: promised a walking shawl for a weekend.
Speaker 8: Definitely not whether it was a saleswoman or salesman, it wouldn't matter.
Speaker 6: Kevin Carrell strenuously denies any involvement in Rochelle's murder and
Speaker 6: has never been charged. He has willingly participated in three
Speaker 6: records of interview with police and provided his DNA to investigators.
Speaker 6: A coroner presiding over Rochelle's inquest made an open finding
Speaker 6: the inquest was picking apart evidence of who said what
Speaker 6: during the frantic search for Rochelle. You heard Alice give
Speaker 6: evidence about Kevin's reaction when Rochelle's father, Graham, reached out
Speaker 6: to him desperate to find her.
Speaker 2: Here's part of what Graham told the coroner's court when
Speaker 2: he was.
Speaker 6: Questioned about his efforts to find and Rochelle on this
Speaker 6: Saturday when she was still missing.
Speaker 2: This is not his voice.
Speaker 4: I wonder whether there are any particular parts of the
Speaker 4: inquiries you were making that Saturday that stand out is
Speaker 4: more significant or more Remember.
Speaker 12: There were two calls that I made. One that we'd
Speaker 12: heard that Rachelle potentially could have gone to a rebels
Speaker 12: party on the Thursday night, which I couldn't possibly believe
Speaker 12: that would be the case given Rochelle's personality, particularly by herself.
Speaker 4: So but there were.
Speaker 12: Two contacts made. The first one is to check the
Speaker 12: veracity of the Bargo to contact the Bargo hotel. So
Speaker 12: I contacted Kevin and rank Kevin and spoke to him
Speaker 12: about Rachelle. You know, when did you last see her?
Speaker 12: What was where was she going? Did you know where
Speaker 12: she was going, who she was going to see? You know,
Speaker 12: you've got to remember she would have confided in you,
Speaker 12: because we've drilled Fiona. Now, the last person we thought
Speaker 12: had seen Michelle would have been Fiona, but later she
Speaker 12: was the receptionist, so that wouldn't have been And the
Speaker 12: last person would have been either Correll or a salesperson
Speaker 12: that worked there. It was Correll that said she was going.
Speaker 12: She told me she was going to I think no,
Speaker 12: he did. He told me she was going to the
Speaker 12: Bargo Hotel and that's all he knew. And it's sort
Speaker 12: of I remember the phone call because he was not offhanded,
Speaker 12: but there was no If it was someone in my staff,
Speaker 12: or maybe it's me, if it's someone in my staff
Speaker 12: had disappeared, I would have gone out of my way.
Speaker 12: Particularly when it's a father calling another father, you would
Speaker 12: have had a sense of, Look, is there anything I
Speaker 12: can do to help? Do you want me to come out. Look,
Speaker 12: I'll make some phone calls around, I'll talk to all
Speaker 12: my staff. I'll find out. I would do lots of things.
Speaker 13: But it wasn't.
Speaker 12: It was as if use the word cold, That's probably
Speaker 12: what I would say. It was a matter of fact. Look,
Speaker 12: don't know what she was doing. All I knew was
Speaker 12: she was going to the Bargo Hotel and that's all
Speaker 12: I know. And I saw her at five point thirty
Speaker 12: on Friday when she left.
Speaker 4: That was the first of I think you said too.
Speaker 4: That was the first standout phone calls.
Speaker 12: The second one was we heard the name Sash and
Speaker 12: Sash out of Carsalle's yard at Bargo, and Rochelle knew
Speaker 12: him through the contacts, and also Shane had sold a
Speaker 12: car to him, but they also had dealings as they
Speaker 12: sold and bought cars from one another. So I rang
Speaker 12: Sash and my more concern was that he was a
Speaker 12: I think he was the head of a chapter. And
Speaker 12: I'd inquired at the Bargo Hotel had there been a
Speaker 12: rebels party on the Thursday night. The licensee had told
Speaker 12: me there wasn't one, but I just wanted to double check.
Speaker 12: So they didn't seem to be a rebel's party, but
Speaker 12: I wanted to talk to Sash if he knew whether
Speaker 12: Rachelle had any plans or anything. He said, look, there
Speaker 12: was no party. We did not have a party. There
Speaker 12: was nothing. It's winter, nothing was on. The place was
Speaker 12: closed up. It wasn't happening. He said, look, I'm really sorry.
Speaker 12: I'm a father as well. Is there anything I can
Speaker 12: do for you? I said, well, you could talk to
Speaker 12: your friends if you can. He said, give me a number,
Speaker 12: and I gave him my number. He took my number.
Speaker 12: He said, if I find anything, I'll call you and
Speaker 12: to me they were two telephone calls that stood out.
Speaker 12: One an acquaintance who I'd never met and was there
Speaker 12: who would go out of their way, and one who
Speaker 12: was a mentor, coach, father figure in some way, who
Speaker 12: wouldn't go out of their way.
Speaker 14: Now I could such a personal persons do such a
Speaker 14: thing to her, to a beautiful child.
Speaker 3: There were two daughters, but I think Dad actually got
Speaker 3: sort of like a son and a daughter because she
Speaker 3: was very much a tomboy.
Speaker 2: What was he like as a dad?
Speaker 4: Very much a protector.
Speaker 3: He was very funny as well, and also very good
Speaker 3: at sport.
Speaker 2: He was a hero.
Speaker 3: Really, he was really kind, really giving. He was a
Speaker 3: mentor to so many people, and he.
Speaker 4: Really looked after us.
Speaker 13: He finished.
Speaker 3: He used to call Shelle maggot and me wart.
Speaker 5: But he give you like the biggest.
Speaker 2: Bear hugs like that.
Speaker 5: The child does all.
Speaker 3: Have these giant hands end and they would whenever they
Speaker 3: cuddle you. It's like literally getting a hug from a bear. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he was beautiful. He was a good guy.
Speaker 6: Graham passed away during the pandemic after a battle with
Speaker 6: brain cancer. He's buried right beside his precious daughter Rachelle.
Speaker 15: Vibrant, smart guy and he's he couldn't nothing he could do.
Speaker 3: He lost speech because he had brain tumors, so that
Speaker 3: was really hard to watch him struggle with words.
Speaker 15: It was hard, it was long, and it was so
Speaker 15: unfair half. I mean, it was stoic there he was.
Speaker 15: He didn't complain really at all, amazing like his daughter.
Speaker 3: I am a bit like Dad, very much like Dad's
Speaker 3: side of the family. Injustice just doesn't sort of sit well.
Speaker 3: And yeah, sitting idly doesn't sit well either. Dad was
Speaker 3: always the person pushing. I think we just kind of
Speaker 3: accepted what the police did. That that was it. There
Speaker 3: wasn't really anything else to be done. You know, the
Speaker 3: police have stopped or there's no there's no other avenues
Speaker 3: to go down. So we just kind of swallowed that
Speaker 3: and accepted it.
Speaker 14: I think it's one of the last rows of the dice.
Speaker 14: And then following this, you know it'll be luck.
Speaker 4: He was a businessman, he was a consultant.
Speaker 13: Lost his daughter so much and his wife, and Graham
Speaker 13: wasn't unhinged. He was an intelligent man, very passionate. And
Speaker 13: I have no problem with parents who are unhinched after
Speaker 13: their child's been killed, no problem to But he was
Speaker 13: always rational, always sensible.
Speaker 3: But I kind of feel a sense of responsibility now
Speaker 3: that Dad's passed away. I think that he would have
Speaker 3: backed me one hundred percent if he was here too.
Speaker 3: We didn't talk about the case a lot, but we
Speaker 3: talked about Rachelle all the time.
Speaker 10: Honestly, like a second family to me from the day
Speaker 10: I was born. I loved their family dynamic. I love
Speaker 10: to just sit in their home, you know, and watch
Speaker 10: TV with them. They were beautifully tight, gorgeous family, you know,
Speaker 10: and the love in that household which I just felt
Speaker 10: so welcomed all the time. At one stage they gave
Speaker 10: me an adoption certificate to adopt them into their family,
Speaker 10: which was just beautiful.
Speaker 2: How tough was it when Graham passed.
Speaker 10: Yeah, just horrible because it was during COVID so it
Speaker 10: couldn't even be there, you know, watching over a screen,
Speaker 10: which was Yeah. But I think the morning then of him,
Speaker 10: of what he went through, of his passing, but then
Speaker 10: him not getting that result of that answer, you know,
Speaker 10: for his daughter. Then you just think to yourself, for
Speaker 10: Puck's sake, like, how how many cards are going to
Speaker 10: get dealt to Christie and Anne?
Speaker 13: Yourself's dad was fed a lot of lies about the
Speaker 13: homicide squad didn't care or weren't involved to cover up
Speaker 13: the fact that they withdrew our support and what were
Speaker 13: meant to do on the case, in fact lead the
Speaker 13: investigation that was never told to the family. I regret
Speaker 13: that I couldn't do that, but under our policy, I
Speaker 13: wasn't allowed to tell them. You know, I'd love to
Speaker 13: let them know. And sadly Graham's passed. Since then, Graham
Speaker 13: went around with some other dads and the Homicide Visian
Speaker 13: support group doing a great job advocating for the solving
Speaker 13: of these cases. And Graham was just fed lies about it.
Speaker 13: And the reality is the truth of it is, as
Speaker 13: I say, Winston Churchill was surrounded by bodyguard lies.
Speaker 2: Are there any memories of Graham from the inquest?
Speaker 12: Oh?
Speaker 11: Yes, he gave me a gift of a French Panny
Speaker 11: sentered candle to thank me, and Frangipani was Rochelle's favorite
Speaker 11: flower and I've still got it and one day, when
Speaker 11: this case is solved, I would light that candle for Rochelle.
Speaker 14: The worst thing you could say to any individual is
Speaker 14: you're a murder and you kill my daughter. And I
Speaker 14: don't think I would ever say that to anyone, and
Speaker 14: that's for the courts to decide.
Speaker 15: It would be amazing actually have the answers. You may
Speaker 15: never know who or why, why, just amount of time.
Speaker 15: It's more time.
Speaker 3: I remember saying that dad and his dad couldn't communicate
Speaker 3: towards the end of his life, and I remember one
Speaker 3: of the last things I said to him was I'll
Speaker 3: find him, so I promised Dad. So I had time
Speaker 3: to hump up.
Speaker 14: We love our door very much and we're always well.
Speaker 14: And if anyone's got any knowledge, you know, to help
Speaker 14: us in our pain, then then then come forward and forward.
Speaker 2: And forward, coming soon on, Dear Rochelle.
Speaker 16: To love my father. I hate what he's done. My
Speaker 16: name is Jazz and Kevin Correll is my father. Seventeen
Speaker 16: and this has chased me my entire adult life. I
Speaker 16: gave him those years and I feel a lot of
Speaker 16: guilt and shame. Crossing him could be dangerous for people,
Speaker 16: but I think my initial instinct when hearing that Rachelle
Speaker 16: had been murdered was that it was my father. Can
Speaker 16: I wish I had a normal fucking god.
Speaker 6: Dear Rochelle is a multi media production from True Crime Australia.
Speaker 6: If you want to be one of the first to
Speaker 6: find out what happens next, go to Dear Rochelle dot
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Speaker 6: Australia subscribers get early access to podcast episodes and breaking
Speaker 6: news in our live investigation and you will also find
Speaker 6: exclusive videos, interactive evidence, feature articles and more.
Speaker 2: That's de Rochelle dot com dot au.
Speaker 6: If you have any tips or confidential information to share
Speaker 6: with me, Ashley Hanson, please send an email to de
Speaker 6: Roshelle at News dot com dot a you how. Super
Speaker 6: producer and audio editor is Rhys Gunter Rachel Fountain, his
Speaker 6: executive producer and audio director. Our executive editor is Sarah Blake.
Speaker 6: Our senior journalist is Patrick Carline. Video editors are Gillian McNally,
Speaker 6: Owen Yang and Stephen Woods. Picture editors are Jeff R.
Speaker 6: Mannin and Christy Miller.
Speaker 2: Sydney. Camera operators are Daniel Andrews.
Speaker 6: And Oscar Viera, with sound designed by Martin Perolta.
Speaker 2: Thanks also to Greg Thompson and Lenny Panerz.
Speaker 6: Showburrao Fayguld, Vanessa Graham, Hailey Goddard, Stephen Grice, Charlotte Carp,
Speaker 6: Tina Coggins and Harry Hughes. Special thanks to the Daily
Speaker 6: Telegraph editor Ben.
Speaker 2: English and dear Roschell.
Speaker 6: Would not be possible without the help, and I'm wavering
Speaker 6: support of Christy and Ann Childs, Mindy Wicks, Damian Loon
Speaker 6: and Rachelle's friends. This podcast series is hosted and investigated
Speaker 6: by me Ashley Hanson