1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: I'll take you in and we'll start the search. Come on, 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: let's go quick, good boy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 3 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 2: How do you feel about the search Everychelle's car? 4 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 3: I guess it's something I've been wanting to know for 5 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 3: a really long time as to whether it was used 6 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 3: or not. And I don't know whether it's going to 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 3: give me those answers. And when I get the information, 8 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 3: I don't know what I'll do with that either, but 9 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 3: it will help us with the investigation because we want 10 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 3: to know if it was the car that was down 11 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 3: there and if it was used, because it paints part 12 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 3: of the story and it'll feel in some of the blanks. 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 3: I'm also kind of scared that it was used because 14 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 3: I want to restore it and I don't know. 15 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 4: How I feel about that. 16 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, lots and mixed feelings. Yes quick, let's go. 17 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: Great, think a bed you're on, Mason, you know that. Hey, 18 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: good job, well done, excellent search. 19 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 6: I'm Ashley Hanson and you're listening to episode twelve of 20 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 6: Dear Rochelle, a podcast by True Crime Australia. This is 21 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 6: the untold story of Rochelle Charles, a twenty three year 22 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 6: old who was brutally murdered. 23 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 2: Her killer has never been caught. 24 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 6: We're on Christie's farm in the New England region of 25 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 6: New South Wales. Search Dog Sydney, a charity organization specializing 26 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 6: in search and recovery, are here too. Handlers Chris Darcy 27 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 6: and adel Jago are guiding their Cadava dogs, Rufus and Coha. 28 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: The dogs are trying to human remains scent. So human 29 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: remains sent can be many things. It can be human bones, 30 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: it can be different parts of human remains in different 31 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: decomposition states. But overall the dogs are trained to actually 32 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 1: generalize all of those scents together to then understand what 33 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: the human remains smell is to them, and then they 34 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: go and figure out that from what they're already smelling 35 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: within the environment. 36 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 6: We know that Rachelle's body is no longer in this car, 37 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 6: so what kind of hope is there to find any 38 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 6: evidence linked to the fact whether she was in the 39 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 6: car or not at a period of time that was 40 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 6: twenty three years ago. 41 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: At this stage, we don't believe that there's been Kadava 42 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: dogs actually searched the vehicle previously given the timeframe. Yes, 43 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: it comes down to what actually did occur. If she 44 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: was transported in this vehicle. But if there was any fluids, 45 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: if there was anything that she's given out, then potentially 46 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: that could be the lead that's needed. And this become 47 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: evidence more and until we either search the vehicle and 48 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: find that out, we're never going to know. So that's 49 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: what we're here today to do. 50 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 6: And so even twenty three years later, there's still a 51 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:15,399 Speaker 6: chance that your dogs could detect if Rochelle's body had 52 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 6: been put in this car. 53 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: There is that small percentage of chance that's occurred. And 54 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 1: we based that on the fact that there's teams over 55 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: in the United States that are still searching for civil 56 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: war graves. Now those dogs are able to locate those 57 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: civil war graves in this day and age, and we 58 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: use that training over here in Australia to assist us 59 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: with our long term missing person's cases. 60 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 6: Christy is visibly anxious. Mindy, her best friend is buyer side. 61 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 6: As the dogs finished their final search of the vehicle, 62 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 6: both dogs went through the car separately twice. 63 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: So what was your take on that confirmed there is 64 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: some sort of presence there. Really, he even spent a 65 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: little bit more time inside in the back quarter. At 66 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: the back seat, I think the vehicle does need to 67 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: be further examined based on that information, even though there 68 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: was nothing clear. As soon as he came past the tire, 69 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: he gave me a strong head snap. 70 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 6: Chris was also interested to check out the Holden's petrol cap. 71 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 6: He used a screwdriver to carefully open it, cautious not 72 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 6: to contaminate it. 73 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: Why don't just have a quick look at the fuel lid. 74 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: I just want to see if it's been tested. No, 75 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: if it's been tested, how do you know, I wouldn't 76 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: want to see any fingerprint dust on that. No, we 77 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: can't see any fingerprint us there. 78 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 5: Surely they would have fingerprinted art. 79 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: It's pretty strong stuff back in the day. These days 80 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: it might, but back in the day I play technology 81 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: wasn't as good that they used and it really. 82 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 7: I remember it's hard to get off, like and then 83 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 7: you know it's there and you really have to scrub 84 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 7: it off. 85 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 6: Seven months on from the Kadava dog search, retired New 86 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 6: South Wales detective and cold case expert Damien loon is 87 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 6: it's Christie's farm. This is the first time they've met 88 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 6: in person since Damien volunteered to help on Rochelle's case. 89 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 3: How are you I am covered in the dirt? I 90 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 3: really that's okay, thank you so much for coming pleasure. 91 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 4: You have the car, not yet you're going to show 92 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 4: me come on? 93 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 8: Wow. 94 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 9: Well that's that's remarkable, isn't it. Look I can still see, 95 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 9: you know, the beautiful color on it as well. 96 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 3: So we had cadava dogs go through the car ye, yeah, 97 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 3: and they picked up a scent in the boot side. 98 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 8: You're an open bot. 99 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 9: So the dog went through here and what he got 100 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 9: he got a scent over here, right. 101 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 3: So I think that this spare wheel used to make 102 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 3: a lot of noise, like it used to bang around. 103 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 3: So what is the iron before Rochelle had done or 104 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 3: shove a sheet down? 105 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 9: White sheet? 106 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that's because the sheet obviously wasn't 107 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 3: in there later on. So I think that was the 108 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 3: sheet that they found. 109 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 9: At the Yeah, I'm saying. 110 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 3: So they were trying to find, you know, where that 111 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 3: sheet could have come from, but I'm pretty sure that 112 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 3: it came from the old owner. And I think it 113 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 3: was just the opportunistic to use the foot that. 114 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 4: Was in there. 115 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:23,679 Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, makes sense. 116 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I always hope that this car will never used 117 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 3: that it was in a different car down there. But yeah, 118 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 3: I think all signed points to yes, it was this 119 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 3: car highly likely. 120 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 9: Yeah, but if there was an indication of something that 121 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 9: was in here, and that's really that's a real strong 122 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 9: evident point. 123 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 5: It didn't bark, it's. 124 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 9: Passive, would just sit down with it. 125 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 3: He said that it was just the way they kept 126 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 3: going back to that spot. 127 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 9: That might be here indicator. Yeah, that's the handler would 128 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 9: know that. He would know that the demeanor of the dog, Yeah, 129 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 9: and he would know that's what he's telling me. He's 130 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 9: telling me that he's found something there, and he's excited 131 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 9: and his ears picked up and they get a tentative, 132 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 9: you know, and other dogs are just passing it. They 133 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 9: just sit down. 134 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 4: Like drug dogs. 135 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 9: If you're at the airport, drug dog will just sit down. Besides, 136 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 9: you won't lick anything. This is really like it's sort 137 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 9: of like all the cases you know, over the years 138 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 9: I've worked on, not just some homicides, but when he 139 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 9: comes to like a crime sen and you'll see what 140 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 9: I'm doing. I've got my hands in my pocket as 141 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 9: system natural instinct for me, and I don't touch anything. 142 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 10: Yeah. 143 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 6: The cadaver dog search prompted forensic investigators to seize the 144 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 6: petrol cap to test for fingerprints, but unfortunately, in April 145 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 6: twenty twenty five, Christy learned the testing yielded no results. 146 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 11: My name is doctor Julian Pomagani. I'm a retired forensic ziciatrist. 147 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 11: I was engaged by the Crown solictenor to help the 148 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 11: coronial inquiry on the death of Rachelle trials. I was 149 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 11: firstly a pair of fresh eyes on all the evidence, 150 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 11: but secondly I was also asked to help council formulate 151 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 11: questions that would perhaps draw the information out of the 152 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 11: many people who gave evidence, and some of whom were suspects. 153 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 6: We're taking you back into Rochelle's inquest now. The barrister, 154 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 6: doctor Parmezani was referring to is Peter Singleton. What advice 155 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 6: did you give to Peter Singleton about how he may 156 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 6: be able to induce some kind of information from a suspect. 157 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 11: Again, my advice is that it's very hard. I said, 158 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 11: You're looking at someone with a reptilian brain, a predator, 159 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 11: and to draw a predator out of its comfort zone 160 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 11: is very difficult because being predators, they expect others to 161 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 11: also be predators, and so they're very careful. I did 162 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 11: a little drawing of a crocodile in a lake where 163 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 11: you can only see the eyes coming out. I drew 164 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 11: Peter on the side of the lake and say, well, 165 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 11: your job to draw that crocodile out if you can. 166 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 6: You looked at Rochelle's case in detail. What do you 167 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 6: believe happened to her? 168 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 2: Look? 169 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 11: I think my conclusion was that that was reached by 170 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 11: many people, someone that she knew and someone who had 171 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 11: lured her away from other people, so that to an 172 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 11: oscillated place and then killed her. And the reasons maybe 173 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 11: a range of reasons, but I think, in my opinion, 174 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 11: it was a plan that was formulated within days, not 175 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 11: weeks or months, affected fairly quickly, but also in not 176 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 11: a very organized way, so it was a. 177 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 2: Sloppy What do you think was the bait. 178 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 11: Well, it was something that she really wanted and perhaps 179 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 11: her defenses were lowered. 180 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 2: Do you think it was a walking shaw? 181 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 11: The most likely thing was a walking shaw. Whether it 182 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 11: was by a customer or a colleague, I don't know, 183 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 11: but I think there's enough evidence that she told others 184 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 11: that she was going to drive a walk in Shaw 185 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 11: on that weekend. She was very excited about it. 186 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 2: What was the motivation of her murder? Do you believe? 187 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 11: There are a number of possibilities. One of them might 188 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 11: have been that the perpetrator felt disrespected by her in 189 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 11: a day to day interaction. She might have said something 190 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 11: that made him really angry. So that there's a range 191 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 11: of possibilities. 192 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 6: Let's just explore those possibilities. The first one you mentioned 193 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 6: that she may have made him angry. Yes, were you 194 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 6: aware of anything that may have made any of the 195 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 6: men in her life angry? 196 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 11: Well, it could be something as banal as laughing at 197 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 11: someone in their face while talking to someone else, and 198 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 11: the subject of that feeling very disrespected and very angry with. 199 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 6: Your insights and your expertise as a psychiatrist, how would 200 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 6: that have been perceived by a man who may have 201 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 6: had an interest in Rochelle? 202 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 11: Well, either a man who had an interest in Rochelle 203 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 11: or a man who and let's say, a negative attitude 204 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 11: towards women. You know, to be offended by a group 205 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 11: of people that you intensely dislike and feel you should 206 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 11: be able to control would have been a great offense. 207 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 6: Let's explore the next theory a sexual motivation. Take me 208 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 6: into the mind of this possible attack. 209 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 11: Of someone who has developed a set of skills to 210 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 11: get their prey. You know, may have done it in 211 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 11: the past one or more times, may have developed a 212 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 11: motus operandi of luring the victim to a place using 213 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 11: a subterfuge and then basically making sure that there are 214 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 11: uninterrupted during the assault. 215 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 6: Can we step into the shoes of the killer and 216 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 6: who is this man? 217 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 2: What is his thoughts and his motive. 218 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 11: At the time of the crime? We look at with 219 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 11: psychopathic personality, basically doesn't care about the impact of his 220 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 11: actions on others, people that he's prepared to kill and 221 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 11: the family and friends of the victim. He doesn't care 222 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 11: about the consequences on them, as only worry about himself. 223 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 11: He sees himself as a predator acting only in his 224 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 11: own to his own advantage. I'm sure there is something 225 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 11: out there or someone who knows something that will bring 226 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 11: essentially a monster to be arrested. 227 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 6: You've heard Kevin Stephen Correll's alibi the Knight Rochelle died, 228 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 6: but the testimony you're about to hear cast doubts over 229 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 6: his version of events. Alice, which isn't her real name, 230 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 6: was Kevin's partner at the time. Their relationship was strained, 231 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 6: and she'd recently asked him to move out of her 232 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 6: home at Picton, but they were still seeing each other. 233 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 6: These are actors voicing Alice and Peter Singleton's exchange at 234 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 6: the inquest. 235 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 4: I want to ask you some questions about the week 236 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 4: that Rochelle died. I think yesterday you said, and I 237 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 4: think you mentioned it a moment ago that sometime towards 238 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 4: the beginning of that week, Kevin communicated something to you 239 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 4: about the coming Thursday. Firstly, when was that communication, to 240 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 4: the best of your present. 241 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 5: Recollection, around the Sunday or the Monday? 242 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 4: And what did he say? 243 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,079 Speaker 5: Something to the effect of, look, I won't be able to. 244 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 7: Come meet you or have dinner on Thursday because I 245 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 7: want to go on by a birthday present for my son. 246 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 4: What did you say? 247 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 7: I said something like, well, I can come shopping. I'll 248 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 7: come shopping. 249 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 4: And was that kind invitation accepted by Kevin? No, what 250 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 4: did he say? 251 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 7: He said he wanted to do it on his own 252 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 7: because he wanted to go and pick something special. 253 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 6: Peter Singleton wanted to know what Alice remembered about Kevin's 254 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 6: behavior around the time Rachelle died, but he was also 255 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 6: keen to find out what she remembered about Kevin's general 256 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 6: feelings about Rochelle over time. 257 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 7: One instance that sticks in my mind that I mentioned 258 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 7: yesterday that I will mention again is that he commented 259 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 7: about Rochelle's dress, and in particular an instance where she'd 260 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 7: worn makeup and she didn't look like the Rochelle. He 261 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 7: knew that she looked like someone else and she was unrecognizable, 262 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 7: and you know, she. 263 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 5: Looked like a tart basically. 264 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 7: And I was recalling myself that he had at some 265 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 7: time started to say to me things like you shouldn't 266 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 7: wear any makeup. 267 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 6: One of the lingering questions Peter Singleton was eager to 268 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 6: establish how did the Bargo Hotel become a focal point 269 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 6: in Rochelle's murder. We know her car was parked there 270 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 6: by somebody else. There were no confirmed sightings of Rochelle 271 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 6: at the pub that night, So what was her car 272 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 6: doing there? 273 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 2: Who was this mystery person she was. 274 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 6: Supposedly planning to meet? Or what if there was never 275 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 6: any meeting at the Bargo Hotel and it was all 276 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 6: part of her killer's plan. 277 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 4: Did he say anything about overhearing Rochelle going to meet 278 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 4: someone at the Bargo Pub? 279 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 5: Yes, he did, that was I think. 280 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 7: I'm not sure when he told me this, whether it 281 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 7: was the day before or that day, but I know 282 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 7: he told me he got away from work later on 283 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 7: that Thursday than he expected to go shopping. 284 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 5: I don't know what. 285 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 7: Kind of trouble they'd had at work, but they got 286 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 7: kept late. Kevin had told her she couldn't leave until 287 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 7: she finished something, and they had an argument. 288 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 5: He told me that she said she was. 289 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 7: Going to meet somebody at the Bargo Pub and that 290 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 7: he made her complete whatever work was requested before she 291 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 7: went to that meeting. She got really annoyed with him, 292 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 7: and he said she snapped back at him and said. 293 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 5: Excuse me, will I just say it? 294 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 4: We've heard worse. 295 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 7: She said, Oh that's great. Now I can't wash my 296 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 7: fucking hair. I remember that distinctly. So he was annoyed 297 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 7: that she was going off to meet someone. They'd had 298 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 7: this argument and he'd made her stay back to do 299 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 7: this work whatever it was before she went to meet 300 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 7: the person. I'm not sure when he told me that, 301 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 7: whether it was that night or the day after. 302 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 6: On the night Rachelle was murdered, Kevin called Alice twice, 303 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 6: once at six thirty eight pm, and exactly an hour 304 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,479 Speaker 6: lasuer again at seven thirty eight pm. 305 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 4: As of today, how many calls do you recall having 306 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 4: with Kevin Correll that night after you got home. 307 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 7: I think I spoke to him twice. I'm not one 308 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 7: hundred percent sure now, without reading through my statement, I 309 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 7: might have rung to ask whether he'd got the present 310 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 7: or just to speak with him. But I do recall 311 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 7: that later that night he rang me to ask if 312 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 7: he could come over, which seemed a bit odd because 313 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 7: he'd made such a deal about not seeing me on 314 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 7: that Thursday night. It was lateish for me. 315 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 5: I'm not sure what time it was, but. 316 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 7: I wouldn't have considered letting him come over at that 317 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 7: point because I'd already planned what I was doing for 318 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 7: the evening, so it was an unusual request. 319 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 5: I thought, what was. 320 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 4: His tone like in that phone call? 321 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 5: It was a I wondered why. 322 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 7: I can't recall his tone exactly, but I do remember thinking, 323 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 7: why does he all of a sudden want to come over? 324 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 7: So there would have been a sense of you know, 325 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 7: I actually thought, what's wrong? 326 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 5: That was my feeling. 327 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 7: I don't remember his tone, but I remember thinking, what's 328 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 7: up that you'd even make that request? He knew I 329 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 7: was an early to bed person, and after making such 330 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 7: a fuss about not getting together on that Thursday, why 331 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 7: would he call it, say, quarter. 332 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 5: To eight, and asked to come over. 333 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 7: I found that unusual too, and I think I was 334 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 7: probably left with a bit of a question like, well, 335 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 7: that was odd or why he said something like he 336 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 7: just wanted to see me. 337 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 5: But that didn't seem right either, So I was left 338 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 5: with a bit of a question as to why I 339 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 5: got that call. 340 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 7: I asked him what he was doing, and he said 341 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 7: he was at home. So that was my other reason 342 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 7: for thinking that he was at home when that phone 343 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 7: call was made, and that he said he was just 344 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 7: going to have pizza and having an early night, so 345 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 7: which was a regular behavior for him, Like that's what 346 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 7: he did. 347 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 5: I don't think he cooked a lot. 348 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 7: For himself, so he would have gone and got a 349 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 7: pizza and taken it back to the unit to eat. 350 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 7: So my understanding that night was that he was having 351 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 7: pizza at home and having an early night. 352 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,360 Speaker 6: Remember Kevin told detectives in his police interview a very 353 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 6: different food order from a takeaway shop in Tarmil. 354 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 2: Here is an actor voicing his statement, fish. 355 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 4: Cake, bat and sav a bag of chips and a cake. Well, yeah, 356 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 4: I love fish and chips. Once I'll change that and 357 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 4: get a fish cake and a battered salv and chips. 358 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 4: I've done it twice this week. Did you say that 359 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 4: you thought there might have been another phone call with 360 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 4: Kevin that night? 361 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,439 Speaker 7: I don't know whether it was that night or the 362 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 7: next day, but I had another phone call from him, 363 00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 7: and the next time I spoke to him, he rang 364 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:04,360 Speaker 7: me and he was very upset and totally out of character. 365 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 7: I don't think i'd ever heard that side of him. 366 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 5: Remorseful. 367 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 7: He said things like I just want to tell you 368 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 7: how sorry I am, and I wanted to tell you 369 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 7: I am so sorry for treating you so badly. I 370 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 7: remember thinking, what is this about? 371 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 5: Now? Where did this come from? 372 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 7: Because we hadn't argued, and I was left wondering what 373 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 7: the hell had happened because he sounded like someone had 374 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 7: died or something. And one of my things is I 375 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 7: talk a lot with my girlfriends, and I remember saying 376 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 7: with one, well, we all knew he was a bit 377 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 7: of a creep in a sense, but I was still 378 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 7: seeing him, but the relationship had finished, so he knew that. 379 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 7: And then I get these phone calls and I said, 380 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 7: what do you. 381 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 5: Think this one's about? 382 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 7: You know, why would you suddenly ring me out of 383 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 7: the blue and start apologizing. So he was so upset, 384 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 7: you know, he'd done like it was a very emotional 385 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 7: phone call that he'd made, and it was left a 386 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,679 Speaker 7: bit flat on me because I didn't know where it 387 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 7: was coming from and what it was about. 388 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 5: And I said to a girlfriend, you know, this sounds awful, 389 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 5: but I actually laughed. 390 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 7: I thought it was kind of funny, thinking what's going on? 391 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 7: What's he done this time? What the hell was that about? 392 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 7: It sounded like somebody died or he got jilted by 393 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 7: a girlfriend or something, And at that point in that relationship, 394 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 7: I was. 395 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 5: Not surprised if there were other people. 396 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 7: That's the conclusion we drew, just being totally hypothetical, and 397 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 7: we had a laugh because we thought, what's the game now, 398 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 7: or what's all that about? 399 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 4: How was Kevin's mood on the Saturday. 400 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 7: I don't really recall there's nothing more serious, more sensible, 401 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 7: even cool. Like on that Saturday, because he was around me, 402 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 7: he was being normal, to my normalody. He seemed to 403 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 7: change to who he was with. 404 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 5: After a phone call. 405 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 4: Was he acting? I think he always acted after the 406 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 4: phone call you were going to say. 407 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 5: Later in the day. 408 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 7: I don't recall when either Rochelle's father or Kevin rang 409 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 7: and they spoke. 410 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 4: Did you hear any of the conversation. 411 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 7: He would have been near me, but not right near me. 412 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 7: I didn't hear the conversation, but I remember Kevin just saying, 413 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 7: I don't know where she is, and I remember feeling 414 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,360 Speaker 7: at that point feeling concerned that. 415 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 10: Well. 416 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 7: Firstly, I had the next question, which was like, why 417 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 7: is her father wringing you? Why would you know where 418 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 7: your work? I don't know who my work colleagues are 419 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 7: on the weekend. I didn't understand that. Nothing much more 420 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 7: was said about it, and then I did think that 421 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 7: it must be really something must be wrong, because you know, 422 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,199 Speaker 7: her father must have wrung you for a reason, like 423 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 7: extenuating circumstances to go out of his way and ring Kevin. 424 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 5: So I was concerned for Rochelle. 425 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 7: I didn't know Rachelle, but I think he might have 426 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 7: then moved into worry mode, which again I say that terribly, 427 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 7: but I feel, I don't feel, I don't. 428 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 5: Think that was real. 429 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 6: Most of the staff at Camden Holden were informed on 430 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 6: the Sunday of the June long Weekeent that Rochelle's body 431 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 6: had been found and Bealice were treating her death as 432 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 6: a murder. Peter Singleton's now asking Alice what Kevin's mood 433 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 6: was like the next day, the Monday, it was a 434 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:28,360 Speaker 6: public holiday. 435 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 7: Yeah, agitated, agitated and you know, like this and needed 436 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 7: to get in the car and drive, and I was 437 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 7: just trying to accommodate, knowing that this was a very 438 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 7: bizarre situation. And so then we drove from my place 439 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 7: to Bargo. From memory, and you know, he said that's 440 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 7: where it had happened. I think this is the day 441 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 7: he did that. And I remember he went across the 442 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 7: bridge and drove past the hotel where she was last seen, 443 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 7: and then chuck to Uturn. There's a car park there, 444 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 7: looked in the car park and then continued down. 445 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 4: When you say he looked in the car park, did 446 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 4: he get out of the vehicle, Well, yeah. 447 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 7: Kind of like looking where it had happened, you know, 448 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 7: looking at the place, looking at the. 449 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 4: Do you know at the time that the car park 450 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 4: had any significance. 451 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 7: He told me that she'd gone missing and that her 452 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 7: car was there, had been left there. I think this 453 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 7: was on that day. I'm not sure which bridge we 454 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 7: came back across. There's two bridges in Bargo, but we 455 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 7: drove up like a little way and I said, why 456 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 7: are we driving up here? And he said, she used 457 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 7: to live here, like in Bargo and I said, oh, 458 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 7: Like I was then thinking like, how come you know 459 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 7: where she lives? 460 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 5: Or why do you know where she lives? 461 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 7: And he said, I said, does she live here or 462 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 7: in this area? And he said, oh, she lived somewhere 463 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 7: here on land and left it at that. He was 464 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 7: going south and then said he needed to go to 465 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 7: Campbelltown to the dealership there. 466 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 8: I'm David Simon's I was a year's car manager at 467 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 8: Cambellton with the Paul Wakelington Group at the time of 468 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 8: Rochelle Charles murder. 469 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 2: When did you first learn about Rochelle's death? 470 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 8: It would have been the Monday of the Long weekend. 471 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 8: I had a phone call to say that something had 472 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 8: happened or she'd been found. 473 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 7: Kevin became increasingly upset, and he asked, you know, if 474 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 7: we could. 475 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 5: He wanted to go to Campbelltown. 476 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 7: So he went out to the expressway, turned left onto 477 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 7: the expressway, drove through to Campbelltown, Holton. 478 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 8: And then later in the day. Later that morning, Kevin 479 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 8: turned up at the our dealership at Campbelltown and basically 480 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 8: told me what he thought it happened, or told me 481 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 8: that she'd been. 482 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,640 Speaker 7: Found, and a lot of the people there were working, 483 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 7: and I didn't feel it was my place to. 484 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 5: Get out of the car. 485 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 8: Yeah, there was a lady in the car with him, 486 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,439 Speaker 8: which I thought was his wife, but really not one 487 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 8: hundred percent. 488 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 7: I don't know whether he was crying, but he was 489 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 7: really grieved at the dealership in Campbelltown. 490 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 5: It was sudden when he got out of the car. 491 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 6: How would you describe Kevin's emotional state when you were 492 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 6: talking to him at Campbelltown. 493 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 8: Yeah, very emotional. There's a lot of tears and and 494 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 8: blubbering and shaking. So yeah, that seemed like he was 495 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 8: quite upset. 496 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 6: Did you do a formal statement with police at the time. 497 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 6: I did, And what memories do you have of that statement, 498 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 6: what stands out to you in your memory? 499 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 2: Now thinking back, the. 500 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 8: Only thing that stands out a lot to me is 501 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 8: where he came up with that statement or the assumption 502 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,719 Speaker 8: that the rebels were involved. It just seemed like a long, 503 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 8: long winded drawer and something for no reason to bring 504 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 8: that up to me at the time. I don't know what. 505 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 2: Sort of a car salesman was. 506 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 8: He very old school. I always thought he was a 507 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 8: bit shifty, but that's a personal thing. I had no 508 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 8: experience of it myself. He pumped himself up a lot 509 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 8: as about how good he was and what he'd done, 510 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 8: but the figures didn't show what he was pumping up. 511 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 6: In the used car industry at the time. What was 512 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 6: the dynamic of a typical mentor and mentee relationship. 513 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 8: Well, you had to try and your knowledge onto whoever 514 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 8: you were training, to teach them how the business works, 515 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 8: what to do, how to great purple meet people, how 516 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 8: to be social with your client, and how to sell 517 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 8: a product. 518 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 6: And from what you saw of Kevin and Rachelle's relationship, 519 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 6: is that what you would say was typical. 520 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 8: Seemed a bit well. It sounded a different relationship to 521 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 8: what you'd have who felt was a sales man, not 522 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 8: a saleswoman that was involved. They seemed a bit a 523 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 8: bit too close for what the situation was, if that 524 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 8: makes sense. 525 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 2: Have you ever reflected on that and what do you 526 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 2: make of it now? Upon reflection, Yeah, I. 527 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 8: Thought about it. It would have it appeared that she 528 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 8: was when I saw him out at the auctions, that 529 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 8: looked like she was following him around like a little puppy, 530 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 8: and he was sort of say, showing her off, but 531 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 8: letting everyone know that she was there with him. 532 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 6: How often would you see Kevin at the auctions and 533 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,360 Speaker 6: would he ever be trying to buy a walking shore? 534 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 6: Is that something that would have been within his capacity 535 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 6: as a used car manager. 536 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 8: Well as the USCAP manager. He had the capabilities to 537 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 8: buy any vehicle that they're necessary for the dealership, So yeah, 538 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 8: that's possible. I never sorry trying to buy a walk 539 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 8: control of it. 540 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 6: Have you ever heard that he had promised Rashell a 541 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,360 Speaker 6: walk in shore for the Dune Long weekend? 542 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 8: I definitely hadn't heard that. I heard that after the fact, 543 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 8: but I'm not prior to or that didn't come up 544 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 8: in conversation with me that that had been promised, which 545 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 8: would seem strange that you would give a young girl 546 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 8: like that that sort of vehicle for a weekend holiday car. 547 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 2: Why would that be strange? 548 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 8: Well, insurance for a start, it's a very expensive motor car, 549 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 8: high powered unit, and it's not normally you wouldn't even 550 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 8: give that your one of your salesman drive. 551 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 6: Again, so you believe that that was It's not something 552 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 6: that would typically happen that a young saleswoman would be 553 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 6: promised a walking shawl for a weekend. 554 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 8: Definitely not whether it was a saleswoman or salesman, it wouldn't matter. 555 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,439 Speaker 6: Kevin Carrell strenuously denies any involvement in Rochelle's murder and 556 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 6: has never been charged. He has willingly participated in three 557 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 6: records of interview with police and provided his DNA to investigators. 558 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 6: A coroner presiding over Rochelle's inquest made an open finding 559 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 6: the inquest was picking apart evidence of who said what 560 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 6: during the frantic search for Rochelle. You heard Alice give 561 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 6: evidence about Kevin's reaction when Rochelle's father, Graham, reached out 562 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 6: to him desperate to find her. 563 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 2: Here's part of what Graham told the coroner's court when 564 00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 2: he was. 565 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 6: Questioned about his efforts to find and Rochelle on this 566 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 6: Saturday when she was still missing. 567 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 2: This is not his voice. 568 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 4: I wonder whether there are any particular parts of the 569 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,719 Speaker 4: inquiries you were making that Saturday that stand out is 570 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 4: more significant or more Remember. 571 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 12: There were two calls that I made. One that we'd 572 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 12: heard that Rachelle potentially could have gone to a rebels 573 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 12: party on the Thursday night, which I couldn't possibly believe 574 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 12: that would be the case given Rochelle's personality, particularly by herself. 575 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 4: So but there were. 576 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 12: Two contacts made. The first one is to check the 577 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 12: veracity of the Bargo to contact the Bargo hotel. So 578 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 12: I contacted Kevin and rank Kevin and spoke to him 579 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 12: about Rachelle. You know, when did you last see her? 580 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 12: What was where was she going? Did you know where 581 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 12: she was going, who she was going to see? You know, 582 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 12: you've got to remember she would have confided in you, 583 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 12: because we've drilled Fiona. Now, the last person we thought 584 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 12: had seen Michelle would have been Fiona, but later she 585 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 12: was the receptionist, so that wouldn't have been And the 586 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 12: last person would have been either Correll or a salesperson 587 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 12: that worked there. It was Correll that said she was going. 588 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 12: She told me she was going to I think no, 589 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 12: he did. He told me she was going to the 590 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 12: Bargo Hotel and that's all he knew. And it's sort 591 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 12: of I remember the phone call because he was not offhanded, 592 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 12: but there was no If it was someone in my staff, 593 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 12: or maybe it's me, if it's someone in my staff 594 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 12: had disappeared, I would have gone out of my way. 595 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 12: Particularly when it's a father calling another father, you would 596 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 12: have had a sense of, Look, is there anything I 597 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 12: can do to help? Do you want me to come out. Look, 598 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 12: I'll make some phone calls around, I'll talk to all 599 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 12: my staff. I'll find out. I would do lots of things. 600 00:30:59,240 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 13: But it wasn't. 601 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 12: It was as if use the word cold, That's probably 602 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 12: what I would say. It was a matter of fact. Look, 603 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 12: don't know what she was doing. All I knew was 604 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 12: she was going to the Bargo Hotel and that's all 605 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 12: I know. And I saw her at five point thirty 606 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 12: on Friday when she left. 607 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 4: That was the first of I think you said too. 608 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 4: That was the first standout phone calls. 609 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 12: The second one was we heard the name Sash and 610 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 12: Sash out of Carsalle's yard at Bargo, and Rochelle knew 611 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 12: him through the contacts, and also Shane had sold a 612 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 12: car to him, but they also had dealings as they 613 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 12: sold and bought cars from one another. So I rang 614 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 12: Sash and my more concern was that he was a 615 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 12: I think he was the head of a chapter. And 616 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 12: I'd inquired at the Bargo Hotel had there been a 617 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 12: rebels party on the Thursday night. The licensee had told 618 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 12: me there wasn't one, but I just wanted to double check. 619 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 12: So they didn't seem to be a rebel's party, but 620 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 12: I wanted to talk to Sash if he knew whether 621 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 12: Rachelle had any plans or anything. He said, look, there 622 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 12: was no party. We did not have a party. There 623 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 12: was nothing. It's winter, nothing was on. The place was 624 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 12: closed up. It wasn't happening. He said, look, I'm really sorry. 625 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 12: I'm a father as well. Is there anything I can 626 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 12: do for you? I said, well, you could talk to 627 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 12: your friends if you can. He said, give me a number, 628 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 12: and I gave him my number. He took my number. 629 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 12: He said, if I find anything, I'll call you and 630 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 12: to me they were two telephone calls that stood out. 631 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 12: One an acquaintance who I'd never met and was there 632 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 12: who would go out of their way, and one who 633 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 12: was a mentor, coach, father figure in some way, who 634 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 12: wouldn't go out of their way. 635 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 14: Now I could such a personal persons do such a 636 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 14: thing to her, to a beautiful child. 637 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 3: There were two daughters, but I think Dad actually got 638 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 3: sort of like a son and a daughter because she 639 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 3: was very much a tomboy. 640 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 2: What was he like as a dad? 641 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 4: Very much a protector. 642 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 3: He was very funny as well, and also very good 643 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 3: at sport. 644 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 2: He was a hero. 645 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 3: Really, he was really kind, really giving. He was a 646 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 3: mentor to so many people, and he. 647 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 4: Really looked after us. 648 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 13: He finished. 649 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 3: He used to call Shelle maggot and me wart. 650 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 5: But he give you like the biggest. 651 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 2: Bear hugs like that. 652 00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 5: The child does all. 653 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 3: Have these giant hands end and they would whenever they 654 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 3: cuddle you. It's like literally getting a hug from a bear. Yeah, 655 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 3: he was beautiful. He was a good guy. 656 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 6: Graham passed away during the pandemic after a battle with 657 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 6: brain cancer. He's buried right beside his precious daughter Rachelle. 658 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 15: Vibrant, smart guy and he's he couldn't nothing he could do. 659 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 3: He lost speech because he had brain tumors, so that 660 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 3: was really hard to watch him struggle with words. 661 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 15: It was hard, it was long, and it was so 662 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 15: unfair half. I mean, it was stoic there he was. 663 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 15: He didn't complain really at all, amazing like his daughter. 664 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 3: I am a bit like Dad, very much like Dad's 665 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 3: side of the family. Injustice just doesn't sort of sit well. 666 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 3: And yeah, sitting idly doesn't sit well either. Dad was 667 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 3: always the person pushing. I think we just kind of 668 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 3: accepted what the police did. That that was it. There 669 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 3: wasn't really anything else to be done. You know, the 670 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 3: police have stopped or there's no there's no other avenues 671 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 3: to go down. So we just kind of swallowed that 672 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 3: and accepted it. 673 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 14: I think it's one of the last rows of the dice. 674 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 14: And then following this, you know it'll be luck. 675 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 4: He was a businessman, he was a consultant. 676 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,280 Speaker 13: Lost his daughter so much and his wife, and Graham 677 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 13: wasn't unhinged. He was an intelligent man, very passionate. And 678 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,919 Speaker 13: I have no problem with parents who are unhinched after 679 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 13: their child's been killed, no problem to But he was 680 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 13: always rational, always sensible. 681 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 3: But I kind of feel a sense of responsibility now 682 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 3: that Dad's passed away. I think that he would have 683 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 3: backed me one hundred percent if he was here too. 684 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 3: We didn't talk about the case a lot, but we 685 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 3: talked about Rachelle all the time. 686 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 10: Honestly, like a second family to me from the day 687 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 10: I was born. I loved their family dynamic. I love 688 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,919 Speaker 10: to just sit in their home, you know, and watch 689 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 10: TV with them. They were beautifully tight, gorgeous family, you know, 690 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 10: and the love in that household which I just felt 691 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 10: so welcomed all the time. At one stage they gave 692 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 10: me an adoption certificate to adopt them into their family, 693 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 10: which was just beautiful. 694 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 2: How tough was it when Graham passed. 695 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 10: Yeah, just horrible because it was during COVID so it 696 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,800 Speaker 10: couldn't even be there, you know, watching over a screen, 697 00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 10: which was Yeah. But I think the morning then of him, 698 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 10: of what he went through, of his passing, but then 699 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 10: him not getting that result of that answer, you know, 700 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 10: for his daughter. Then you just think to yourself, for 701 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 10: Puck's sake, like, how how many cards are going to 702 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 10: get dealt to Christie and Anne? 703 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 13: Yourself's dad was fed a lot of lies about the 704 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 13: homicide squad didn't care or weren't involved to cover up 705 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 13: the fact that they withdrew our support and what were 706 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 13: meant to do on the case, in fact lead the 707 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 13: investigation that was never told to the family. I regret 708 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 13: that I couldn't do that, but under our policy, I 709 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,360 Speaker 13: wasn't allowed to tell them. You know, I'd love to 710 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 13: let them know. And sadly Graham's passed. Since then, Graham 711 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 13: went around with some other dads and the Homicide Visian 712 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 13: support group doing a great job advocating for the solving 713 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 13: of these cases. And Graham was just fed lies about it. 714 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,359 Speaker 13: And the reality is the truth of it is, as 715 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 13: I say, Winston Churchill was surrounded by bodyguard lies. 716 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 2: Are there any memories of Graham from the inquest? 717 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 12: Oh? 718 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 11: Yes, he gave me a gift of a French Panny 719 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 11: sentered candle to thank me, and Frangipani was Rochelle's favorite 720 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 11: flower and I've still got it and one day, when 721 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 11: this case is solved, I would light that candle for Rochelle. 722 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,799 Speaker 14: The worst thing you could say to any individual is 723 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 14: you're a murder and you kill my daughter. And I 724 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 14: don't think I would ever say that to anyone, and 725 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,720 Speaker 14: that's for the courts to decide. 726 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 15: It would be amazing actually have the answers. You may 727 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 15: never know who or why, why, just amount of time. 728 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:04,839 Speaker 15: It's more time. 729 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 3: I remember saying that dad and his dad couldn't communicate 730 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 3: towards the end of his life, and I remember one 731 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 3: of the last things I said to him was I'll 732 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,480 Speaker 3: find him, so I promised Dad. So I had time 733 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 3: to hump up. 734 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 14: We love our door very much and we're always well. 735 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 14: And if anyone's got any knowledge, you know, to help 736 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 14: us in our pain, then then then come forward and forward. 737 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:42,359 Speaker 2: And forward, coming soon on, Dear Rochelle. 738 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 16: To love my father. I hate what he's done. My 739 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 16: name is Jazz and Kevin Correll is my father. Seventeen 740 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 16: and this has chased me my entire adult life. I 741 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:57,799 Speaker 16: gave him those years and I feel a lot of 742 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 16: guilt and shame. Crossing him could be dangerous for people, 743 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 16: but I think my initial instinct when hearing that Rachelle 744 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 16: had been murdered was that it was my father. Can 745 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 16: I wish I had a normal fucking god. 746 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 6: Dear Rochelle is a multi media production from True Crime Australia. 747 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,360 Speaker 6: If you want to be one of the first to 748 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,839 Speaker 6: find out what happens next, go to Dear Rochelle dot 749 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 6: com dot a you. That's where eligible Digital News Corp 750 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 6: Australia subscribers get early access to podcast episodes and breaking 751 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 6: news in our live investigation and you will also find 752 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 6: exclusive videos, interactive evidence, feature articles and more. 753 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 2: That's de Rochelle dot com dot au. 754 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 6: If you have any tips or confidential information to share 755 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 6: with me, Ashley Hanson, please send an email to de 756 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,800 Speaker 6: Roshelle at News dot com dot a you how. Super 757 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 6: producer and audio editor is Rhys Gunter Rachel Fountain, his 758 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:08,720 Speaker 6: executive producer and audio director. Our executive editor is Sarah Blake. 759 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,840 Speaker 6: Our senior journalist is Patrick Carline. Video editors are Gillian McNally, 760 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 6: Owen Yang and Stephen Woods. Picture editors are Jeff R. 761 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 6: Mannin and Christy Miller. 762 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 2: Sydney. Camera operators are Daniel Andrews. 763 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 6: And Oscar Viera, with sound designed by Martin Perolta. 764 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 2: Thanks also to Greg Thompson and Lenny Panerz. 765 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 6: Showburrao Fayguld, Vanessa Graham, Hailey Goddard, Stephen Grice, Charlotte Carp, 766 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 6: Tina Coggins and Harry Hughes. Special thanks to the Daily 767 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 6: Telegraph editor Ben. 768 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,240 Speaker 2: English and dear Roschell. 769 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,280 Speaker 6: Would not be possible without the help, and I'm wavering 770 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 6: support of Christy and Ann Childs, Mindy Wicks, Damian Loon 771 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:53,839 Speaker 6: and Rachelle's friends. This podcast series is hosted and investigated 772 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 6: by me Ashley Hanson