Speaker 1: Welcome to How Do They Afford That, the podcast that
Speaker 1: peaks into the financial lives of everyday Australians. I'm Michael Thompson.
Speaker 1: I'm an author and the co host of the business
Speaker 1: news podcast Fear and Greed, And as always I'm with
Speaker 1: financial planner Canna Campbell, the founder of the financial literacy
Speaker 1: platform Sugar Mama TV, and my co author on our
Speaker 1: upcoming book, Twelve Months to Financial Freedom. It is out
Speaker 1: on the first of September. Hello, Canna, good morning, how
Speaker 1: are you. Oh? You know what, I'm a little bit
Speaker 1: wary about today's episode. Why because it is a topic
Speaker 1: that can be controversial, right, Okay, so you're with me
Speaker 1: so far. We are talking about one of the more
Speaker 1: controversial tools in investing. I would say margin loans.
Speaker 2: So I would say we fear what we don't understand.
Speaker 2: That is as controversial.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, that's probably also fair. Some investors swear
Speaker 1: by them, others won't go near them. So today I
Speaker 1: ask you, margin loans a powerful wealth building tool or
Speaker 1: a dangerous trap?
Speaker 2: I am bring it on because let's just we're going
Speaker 2: to diffuse any fears were people are going to have
Speaker 2: a very informed, educated opinion after this episode as to
Speaker 2: whether margin loan is powerful or whether it's a dangerous
Speaker 2: trap and tool, and whether it's maybe right or wrong
Speaker 2: for them or perhaps something they can consider for the
Speaker 2: down track.
Speaker 1: Indeed, so, and of course, as you're listening to this today,
Speaker 1: know that everything that we're talking about is general in nature.
Speaker 1: It is never personal, investment, strategic or product advice. It
Speaker 1: is purely for financial education purposes only. You need to
Speaker 1: see a financial planner to get advice tailored to your circumstances.
Speaker 1: If you listening to this and going, oh, this is
Speaker 1: something I'd like to explore, talk to a professional and
Speaker 1: get some advice, let's start with the basics. What is
Speaker 1: a margin loan? Isn't a dangerous trap? No? No, I
Speaker 1: just tell us the margin loan bit and then leave
Speaker 1: the restport till later.
Speaker 2: No, it's a very powerful tool. It is a risky tool,
Speaker 2: but when it's used for the right reasons and the
Speaker 2: right time, the right goals, it can be powerful. So essentially,
Speaker 2: it is a loan that you borrow, well, sorry, amount
Speaker 2: of money that you borrow obviously through a loan that's
Speaker 2: secured against existing investments. So say, for example, I have
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars worth of shares, and I really want
Speaker 2: to grow my portfolio, and I want to start being
Speaker 2: a bit more savvy and strategic in building my wealth.
Speaker 2: I would go to a margin loan provider, normally through
Speaker 2: the online share trading accounts, and apply, for example, for
Speaker 2: a fifty thousand dollars margin loan, and I would assume
Speaker 2: it's approved. I would have fifty thousand dollars to go
Speaker 2: and buy fifty thousand dollars worth of shares. So now
Speaker 2: my portfolio is worth one hundred thousand doors from a
Speaker 2: gross value point of view. Obviously the net position is
Speaker 2: still fifty because I've got a fifty thousand dollars loan,
Speaker 2: and I would just take that out and invest it
Speaker 2: for long term growth opportunities.
Speaker 1: And so the initial value of your portfolio was fifty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, and so you have borrowed that full amount again, Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: all right, A lot of questions coming off that for me.
Speaker 1: But why would someone use one Lots.
Speaker 2: Of reasons, but predominantly to be more efficient in building
Speaker 2: wealth and creating wealth? Obviously, you know you're borrowing money
Speaker 2: at a cost and expense to then try and get
Speaker 2: that money to grow at a faster rate than what
Speaker 2: you're paying. It's also a great tool for diversification. For example,
Speaker 2: I have had situations where clients had impressive in portfolios,
Speaker 2: but it was mainly held in one particular stock or
Speaker 2: just a couple of stocks, you know. Particularly was very
Speaker 2: common with employee share plans where they can't actually sell
Speaker 2: the stock necessarily because it's part of their contract. So
Speaker 2: this was a way of actually allowing us, you know,
Speaker 2: if they didn't have the cash foil the cashflow was
Speaker 2: going elsewhere, to use the shares that they already owned
Speaker 2: as equity to borrow money and then go and invest
Speaker 2: in other assets to help diversify the portfolio and reduce risk,
Speaker 2: as well as help and support their financial goals and
Speaker 2: risk profile. And then of course tax because the interest
Speaker 2: of your tax, the interest of your tax, the interest
Speaker 2: of your margin loan typically is tax deductible, So you
Speaker 2: would never make a decision like this purely for the
Speaker 2: tax savings, but it definitely is an added advantage in
Speaker 2: this type of strategy, and it's secured against the investments
Speaker 2: inside the portfolio, so there is that I guess, additional protection.
Speaker 2: Some people don't they Even if they have a home
Speaker 2: and they are able to get recycle, they don't want
Speaker 2: to put their home security. They would rather quarantine it
Speaker 2: through a margin loan. And I have done it.
Speaker 1: I've used a margin loan before.
Speaker 2: I've used it a couple of times actually in my life.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's do the maths a little bit. What's the
Speaker 1: upside here? Then if things go well, if the market
Speaker 1: is going reasonably well over a long period of time.
Speaker 2: So the pendulum swings both ways with loverage, so it's
Speaker 2: obviously going to amplify what's going on. So say, for example,
Speaker 2: you know fifty thousand dollars of my shares, did I
Speaker 2: go and borrow fifty thousand dollars through marginalan, We've go
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars invested. The market moves up ten percent,
Speaker 2: so now my portfolio is worth one hundred and ten thousand,
Speaker 2: whereas if I had not taken out that marginalone, my
Speaker 2: portfolio is worth fifty five thousand. So you can see,
Speaker 2: you know, obviously you've got playing with larger amounts, obviously
Speaker 2: bigger financial compounding growth opportunities. But as the pendulum swings
Speaker 2: the other way, you're magnifying the losses. So fifty thousand
Speaker 2: of my own shares fifty thousand borrowed market cut corrects
Speaker 2: ten percent. That portfolio is worth ninety thousand dollars. But
Speaker 2: I still have that fifty thousand dollars loan.
Speaker 1: Okay, two questions Off the back of that. I'm learning
Speaker 1: a lot out of this so far, but I want
Speaker 1: to ask you about cash flow for one thing, and
Speaker 1: the importance of having cash flow to make sure that
Speaker 1: you are able to service what is alone. But before
Speaker 1: we get to that, can you explain a margin call
Speaker 1: in plain English?
Speaker 2: So a margin call is where your portfolio from the
Speaker 2: gross worth point of view, drops below a certain level.
Speaker 2: And when you've got to apply for a margin one,
Speaker 2: you can see the thresholds that they have and it
Speaker 2: is very reflective as to the quality of the investments
Speaker 2: inside your portfolio, or how volatile they are, the types
Speaker 2: of companies you know, how well diversified your portfolios. You know,
Speaker 2: things like ETFs help reduce that risk quite significantly. But
Speaker 2: when it hits a certain threshold, and they'll give you warnings,
Speaker 2: you know, they'll call you or message you, they'll email you,
Speaker 2: they'll do smoke signals send doves like that. It's their
Speaker 2: responsibility to let you know that you're getting into this
Speaker 2: margin call a danger zone. But what happens is the
Speaker 2: portfolio has now dropped below a certain level that makes
Speaker 2: the lender uncomfortable and nervous that they've got, say a
Speaker 2: you know, in our situation, say one hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 2: worth of shares initially bought fifty thousand dollars alone. Say
Speaker 2: the market has a massive correction and drops, you know,
Speaker 2: from one hundred thousand dollars to say sixty thousand, that
Speaker 2: might trigger a margin call because all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: that fifty thousand dollars alone is looking a little more
Speaker 2: dangerous as the portfolio continues to drop in value. So
Speaker 2: they will call you, email you, message you. And you've
Speaker 2: got a couple of different options. So when you get
Speaker 2: hit with a margin call, you need to either put
Speaker 2: some money towards that loan, or you need to add
Speaker 2: transfer some shares that you might have elsewhere, so you
Speaker 2: might have another online share trading account attached to a
Speaker 2: different HIN number you might roll them across. Or worst case,
Speaker 2: the margin lend provider will actually go and sell some
Speaker 2: down some of your shares in this situation with a
Speaker 2: very dramatic example, you know, that'd sell down the share
Speaker 2: portfolio and you'd walk away with just ten thousand dollars
Speaker 2: left over after they've taken back at they're fifty thousand
Speaker 2: dollars alone. Okay, so it is it is risky, but
Speaker 2: those risks are actually quite manageable.
Speaker 1: Okay, How how do you manage those? Is it about
Speaker 1: having cash flow? About keeping cash and reserved to pay
Speaker 1: if this situation does come up so that you avoid
Speaker 1: having to liquidate shares and crystallize a loss.
Speaker 2: So there's probably about seven or eight different things you
Speaker 2: can do, and I actually have a podcast on Sugarmum's
Speaker 2: Fireplay dedicated purely to all the different things you can do,
Speaker 2: and I would recommend you do all of these. But
Speaker 2: you know number one is don't borrow too aggressively. There's
Speaker 2: lots of data to show that even with the biggest
Speaker 2: market corrections, you know, example the GFC even which is
Speaker 2: when a lot of these margin calls got triggered, if
Speaker 2: yourfolio was not to was geared at a very conservative level,
Speaker 2: not exceeding fifty percent, you never got hit with a
Speaker 2: margin call. Getting hit with a margin call and having
Speaker 2: to sell is the worst outcome possible. So if you
Speaker 2: were in this zone, you wouldn't have actually got a
Speaker 2: margin call. Where people did during the GFC get caught
Speaker 2: out is because they had really aggressive gearing levels around
Speaker 2: sort of eighty ninety ninety five percent, which is just
Speaker 2: absolutely ridiculous and I think it's just irresponsible lending. That
Speaker 2: means they borrowed so aggressively, So they borrowed huge multiples
Speaker 2: of what they had in their investment portfolio. All right,
Speaker 2: so you want to don't borrow more than you can afford.
Speaker 2: The other thing is to make sure your portfolio is
Speaker 2: probably diversified so that when market volatively hits you, you've
Speaker 2: put yours in a variety of different baskets to help
Speaker 2: smooth out that volatility. The other thing is obviously always
Speaker 2: having emergency money set aside. Now we've spoken about emergency
Speaker 2: money how important it is, but it's not a generic
Speaker 2: number or a formula. It's reflective of your situation. Okay,
Speaker 2: and again we talk about this in detail in our
Speaker 2: book Twelve Months to Financial Freedom. So that definitely what
Speaker 2: you want to can take into consideration reviewing your emergency
Speaker 2: money going, well, we're about to take out a margin loane.
Speaker 2: We probably should bump up our emergency money before we
Speaker 2: take this loan out, so that should anything happen, we can.
Speaker 1: You're actually preparing just in case things do go wrong
Speaker 1: and you need to stump up the cash to pay
Speaker 1: back part of that loan. You can do so.
Speaker 2: You know, when it comes to these types of strategies,
Speaker 2: you're buying long term investments, So being forced into a
Speaker 2: position where we have to sell that quality asset just
Speaker 2: because of a natural market correction is a disastrous outcome
Speaker 2: that you want to avoid that at all costs. Another
Speaker 2: important thing to think about is the dividends. So when
Speaker 2: you set up this type of strategy, you obviously receiving
Speaker 2: dividends from your shares. So a way of actually managing
Speaker 2: that risk is you have the dividends paid to the
Speaker 2: margin loan to help pay it down, so you're creating
Speaker 2: more and more equity naturally reducing that LVR. You know,
Speaker 2: every six months when those dividends come in.
Speaker 1: Okay or what sorry, no, I was going to ask
Speaker 1: you about that, because otherwise, when do you pay it back?
Speaker 1: Or is this just a loan that exists forever and
Speaker 1: you are just servicing the interest on it.
Speaker 2: Most is such a great question. Most margin loans are
Speaker 2: actually set up as interest only. You can treat them
Speaker 2: like a principle and interest loan, which is what I
Speaker 2: did for the thousand dollars project I took out seven
Speaker 2: years ago. I took out a fifty thousand dollars margin
Speaker 2: loan and the portfolio was worth about one hundred and
Speaker 2: thirty at the time. And I put this on YouTube,
Speaker 2: and I had all these people like hammer Me saying
Speaker 2: this is so responsible. But my LVR was really conservative.
Speaker 2: It was less than fifty percent. It was like thirty
Speaker 2: three percent or something. Oh a little bit more than that,
Speaker 2: but it was very conservative. And I actually chipped away
Speaker 2: instead of putting one thousand dollars into more shares, I
Speaker 2: actually chipped away the margin loan. So I actually paid
Speaker 2: that margin loan off. And that portfolio is now worth
Speaker 2: three hundred and eighty something thousand dollars today. So yes,
Speaker 2: those dividends can be used to help pay down the loan,
Speaker 2: or if you're able to service that loan, you can
Speaker 2: service it out of your own cash phone and continue
Speaker 2: on reinvesting their dividends and build your mindful money number.
Speaker 2: So that's definitely an option there for you. But to
Speaker 2: answer your question about that loan, it's up to you.
Speaker 2: You can have that loan sit as an interest only
Speaker 2: loan and that it just sit there and always be
Speaker 2: there and you know, reap the tax benefits from it.
Speaker 2: Some people, which I never recommend, is they will actually
Speaker 2: have the loan capitalize, which not many loan providers allow anymore.
Speaker 2: Where he just gets all the interest gets out to
Speaker 2: the loan, the loan gets bigger and bigger. Oh boys, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's just dangerous. And so yes, there are things you
Speaker 2: can definitely do to help manage this. And what I
Speaker 2: would say to anyone who's taking out a margin loan
Speaker 2: is you don't have to draw down the full amount immediately.
Speaker 2: You know, yes, you may have been approved for say
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars, draw it down fifty ten thousand,
Speaker 2: five twenty thousand. But also at the same time, and
Speaker 2: this is something I discovered, you've got to be careful
Speaker 2: as to what the minimum level they'll charge interest on.
Speaker 2: So as I was paying down one thousand dollars, project
Speaker 2: marginal loan of fifty thousand dollars, when I got to
Speaker 2: the loan down to twenty thousand dollars, I received an
Speaker 2: email from them saying and they had the margin had
Speaker 2: changed providers over the course of the seven years, but
Speaker 2: he sent me an email saying, your loan is now
Speaker 2: down to twenty thousand. Please know that we regardless of
Speaker 2: your loan size below twenty, we will be charging you
Speaker 2: interest at twenty thousand. So as soon as my margin
Speaker 2: loan went to twenty thousand dollars in under that interest
Speaker 2: rate became increasingly expensive. Every time I was chipping away.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because otherwise you might only have one thousand
Speaker 1: dollars left to pay, but just still paying interest on
Speaker 1: twenty grand exactly.
Speaker 2: So it actually gave me huge motivation to really pay
Speaker 2: it off, racking it quickly, and I did like I
Speaker 2: like high tailed, but I wanted that was part of
Speaker 2: my strategy. I wanted to pay it down. I wasn't
Speaker 2: interested in letting it just sit there at twenty thousand.
Speaker 2: So obviously the devil is in the details. You've got
Speaker 2: to understand this, but you can. You can treat it
Speaker 2: like a principle and interest loan and pay it off,
Speaker 2: but be aware of.
Speaker 1: That catch Okay, all right, still a bit to cover.
Speaker 1: We'll take a quick break back in a moment. All right, Kenna,
Speaker 1: we have been talking about margin loans, and I set
Speaker 1: it up as this is going to answer the question
Speaker 1: powerful tool or dangerous trap. And I feel like the
Speaker 1: more I learned from you, the more I'm kind of
Speaker 1: heading towards the powerful tool part. But for the wrong person,
Speaker 1: a margin line could be a trap. They could find
Speaker 1: themselves over exposed, or they could find themselves in a
Speaker 1: bit of trouble. Who should avoid this strategy?
Speaker 2: I would say inexperienced investors. This is something This is
Speaker 2: quite a sophisticated financial tool. So if you are new
Speaker 2: to investing, you've only just started buying shares, maybe wait
Speaker 2: a little bit until you're a lot more comfortable and
Speaker 2: understand that latural market volatility and you understand like your
Speaker 2: cash flow and what it looks like. Also, anyone who's
Speaker 2: already got toxic debt in their life, like they've got
Speaker 2: credit card debt by now, pay later, outstanding payments, personal ones,
Speaker 2: don't go and take out this type of investment debt
Speaker 2: until you've built your financial foundation first, Because.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you are a essentially adding another big chunk of
Speaker 1: debt to your life, and you don't do it while
Speaker 1: your other debt is not under control exactly. Okay.
Speaker 2: Also, people who don't have the timeframe you know, you know,
Speaker 2: if you're building a share portfolio with the intention of
Speaker 2: selling it down to pay for a deposit. A margin
Speaker 2: loan is a long term financial product. It is not
Speaker 2: a quick fix. It's not there to make quick cash.
Speaker 2: So you wouldn't if you're looking at closing off the
Speaker 2: portfolio using that money, taking that money off the table.
Speaker 2: This is not the tool to be using right now.
Speaker 1: Okay. Misconceptions around borrowing to invest. Perhaps one of those
Speaker 1: misconceptions is that margin loans are a dangerous trap. But
Speaker 1: what is the biggest misconception I suppose that people have
Speaker 1: around this concept of borrowing money to invest when it's
Speaker 1: certainly not as tangible as theay borrowing to go and
Speaker 1: buy a property.
Speaker 2: Okay. I think there are actually two misconceptions, the first
Speaker 2: being that leverage creates wealth. It doesn't. It definitely helps,
Speaker 2: but at the end of the day, it's the underlying
Speaker 2: investments that help create wealth, and reviewing it on a
Speaker 2: regular basis and investing in a consistent way is what
Speaker 2: helps build sustainable wealth. You know, leverage simply amplifies whatever happens.
Speaker 2: The second misconception is assuming that you are going to
Speaker 2: be emotionally calm and rational during natural market downturns, like
Speaker 2: history shows that most investors are the most emotional, sorry,
Speaker 2: more emotional than they actually expect. And there's this thing
Speaker 2: called a loss of version, which is a cognitive bias.
Speaker 2: And what happens is we feel loss twice as deeper
Speaker 2: and more painful than an actual gain. So you can
Speaker 2: see your margin alone working for you, helping you build
Speaker 2: your portfolio, helping access more passive income streams, and things
Speaker 2: are swimming along nicely and you feel good. But then
Speaker 2: when a market correction happens, that pain is twice as
Speaker 2: more intense. Hence that in what you were feeling when
Speaker 2: you were feeling like everything's working nicely for you and
Speaker 2: swimming along okay.
Speaker 1: So to some extent, this is as much a psychological
Speaker 1: thing as it is a financial decision you need to
Speaker 1: be And this goes back to probably being a slightly
Speaker 1: more sophisticated investor that you understand how markets work, the flow,
Speaker 1: the volatility, the fluctuations, and how you react emotionally to
Speaker 1: that before you put yourself at greater exposure. I suppose
Speaker 1: to that volatility. Yeah, absolutely, all right. Finally, if someone
Speaker 1: is curious right about margin lending, what do they need
Speaker 1: to understand before they even consider it? If this has
Speaker 1: been a fantastic deep dive into it, but if someone's
Speaker 1: come out of this and going, you know what, I reckon?
Speaker 1: I reckon this could be something for me, what do
Speaker 1: they need to know right now?
Speaker 2: Okay, So I do a bit of a checklist, and
Speaker 2: I would ask yourself these five questions, the first one
Speaker 2: being can I comfortably afford the interest? And can I
Speaker 2: comfortably afford the interest even with say a three percent
Speaker 2: interest rate rise? Because yes, you can fix margin loans sometimes,
Speaker 2: but you can normally only fix them for a certain period.
Speaker 2: And within this question as well is can I actually
Speaker 2: chip away at the loan? Is there going to be
Speaker 2: enough cash flow left over for me to slowly pay
Speaker 2: it down like I did with a thousand dollars project?
Speaker 2: You know, having that buffer, that safety net is important
Speaker 2: to prioritize when you're looking at doing this. The second
Speaker 2: question I would ask myself is can I handle a
Speaker 2: margin call? Not just financially, but emotionally it's quite panicking.
Speaker 2: I've never personally received one, but I've watched people receive them,
Speaker 2: and it was quite debilitating, like what it did to
Speaker 2: them and their confidence, and you know, the mad panic
Speaker 2: to find money and to avoid having to sell, and
Speaker 2: you know, it's very distracting. You're trying to move through
Speaker 2: your everyday life and then have this massive financial risk
Speaker 2: land in your lap. So do I have the means
Speaker 2: to either come up with extra money to help reduce
Speaker 2: the LVR? Or do I have some share sitting in
Speaker 2: another online share trading account that I can transfer across
Speaker 2: into the portfolio to help rebalance it? You know, do
Speaker 2: I have the ability to actually sell some shares because
Speaker 2: I've already made lots of money on some of them
Speaker 2: to rebalance the LVR again? So you know, can I
Speaker 2: actually meet the margin call financially and emotionally? And of
Speaker 2: course you want to be your mindset would be very
Speaker 2: much about avoiding a margin call at all costs. The
Speaker 2: other third question I would say is would I sleep
Speaker 2: well at night even if markets fell thirty percent? And
Speaker 2: this is where you can sort of see hate saying
Speaker 2: that's anything that can come to me at the moment,
Speaker 2: but the men from the mice. You know, when it
Speaker 2: comes to a high risk strategy like this, will I
Speaker 2: actually get excited that this is the buying opportunity that
Speaker 2: I've been waiting for? Or is this going to make
Speaker 2: me panic, shrivel up into my shell and question everything
Speaker 2: I've done. If your answer is I would panic and
Speaker 2: feel anxious, that doesn't necessarily mean this is the wrong
Speaker 2: strategy for you or the wrong product. It just means
Speaker 2: a little bit more time, a little bit more experience,
Speaker 2: and just a little bit more information as to how
Speaker 2: this works and how to manage this proactively before you
Speaker 2: jump in the deep end of this. The fourth question
Speaker 2: would be is am I investing for at least ten years?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah? The timeframe this is really important.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people don't realize margin landing.
Speaker 2: It's you know, you go in it going yep, that's fine,
Speaker 2: I can do this amount of time. But you've got
Speaker 2: also go keep in mind if you are playing and
Speaker 2: pulling this money out of the market, your time frame
Speaker 2: is not ten years. It's nine years, eight years, six years,
Speaker 2: seven years. As you're approaching that point where you're going
Speaker 2: to take the money out. You want to make sure
Speaker 2: that that margin loan is either coming down so you
Speaker 2: can actually take all the money off the table to
Speaker 2: achieve that particular goal, or your portfolio has grown an
Speaker 2: off to clearly wipe that loan out and pay it
Speaker 2: off when you go to sell the portfolio, so that
Speaker 2: you can take your money off the table and use
Speaker 2: it for whatever you want. And then the fifth one is,
Speaker 2: am I borrowing this money and following this strategy because
Speaker 2: it genuinely suits my financial plan and compliments my other
Speaker 2: financial strategies, or am I just being greedy and chasing
Speaker 2: bigger returns here? You know, financial planning is never just
Speaker 2: a one strategy. It was rarely one strategy unless you're
Speaker 2: getting limited advice. There are lots of moving pieces around superannuation,
Speaker 2: around saving strategies, around managing your debt, paying off mortgages,
Speaker 2: you know, saving up for short term goals. So there's
Speaker 2: a lot of things in here, and it should compliment
Speaker 2: what else is going on, and obviously compliment and help
Speaker 2: you work towards your big picture goal because it is
Speaker 2: a long term strategy.
Speaker 1: Makes sense, okay, And of course go and get some
Speaker 1: professional advice if you've got any questions about this or
Speaker 1: thinking about doing it, then the best thing to do
Speaker 1: is to go and speak to a professional who can
Speaker 1: help you implement it and talk you through the risks
Speaker 1: as they are appropriate to your personal circumstances. Can if
Speaker 1: people want more information from you, they find you on Instagram.
Speaker 2: If you have any questions about margin loans, especially something
Speaker 2: I really love talking about.
Speaker 1: I have got that impression and we haven't.
Speaker 2: Said this, but the thing about margin loans is it
Speaker 2: allows people to build wealth without having to own a property.
Speaker 2: You know, I said when people might own a property
Speaker 2: don't want to use their homo security. But also there
Speaker 2: are a lot of people out there who love their
Speaker 2: shareboot follower who want to keep building it but don't
Speaker 2: own property. This is a financial tool that might be
Speaker 2: really helpful to be able to access that equity opportunity.
Speaker 1: All right, So jump onto Instagram, Sugar Mama TV for Canna,
Speaker 1: and you can hear me every day with Sean Aylmer
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