1 00:00:01,300 --> 00:00:04,820 Speaker 1: Hi, it's Kristen from the front. This episode was originally 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,899 Speaker 1: published on November 30, 2024. We're bringing it to you 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,870 Speaker 1: again now to mark the death of Yayoi Kusama in 4 00:00:11,910 --> 00:00:14,610 Speaker 1: Japan on August 27, 2026. 5 00:00:14,610 --> 00:00:17,990 Speaker 2: So the first thing I was going to ask you 6 00:00:18,050 --> 00:00:20,470 Speaker 2: is why have I never heard of Yayoi Kusama and 7 00:00:20,530 --> 00:00:30,410 Speaker 2: should I be ashamed of myself? From The Australian, this 8 00:00:30,450 --> 00:00:33,140 Speaker 2: is the weekend edition of The Front. I'm Claire Harvey. 9 00:00:33,659 --> 00:00:36,099 Speaker 2: This is our first episode in something new we're doing 10 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,260 Speaker 2: here on The Front, regular weekend episodes where we bring 11 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 2: you the best of arts and culture. The weekday news 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,570 Speaker 2: gets so busy, we don't often get a chance to 13 00:00:45,670 --> 00:00:50,089 Speaker 2: pause and talk about the things we love a lot. Film, TV, 14 00:00:50,270 --> 00:00:54,690 Speaker 2: the visual arts, dance, music... Today I'm sitting down with 15 00:00:54,930 --> 00:00:58,870 Speaker 2: one of the Australian's smartest people, Tim Douglas. He's the 16 00:00:58,970 --> 00:01:02,130 Speaker 2: editor of Review and he's recently returned from a trip 17 00:01:02,170 --> 00:01:05,450 Speaker 2: to Japan, exploring the work of one of that country's 18 00:01:05,510 --> 00:01:10,270 Speaker 2: most mysterious and intriguing artists, who also happens to be 19 00:01:10,470 --> 00:01:14,700 Speaker 2: wildly popular around the world. You can watch a video 20 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: of my interview with Tim and see some of Yayoi 21 00:01:17,500 --> 00:01:23,699 Speaker 2: Kasama's heart-burstingly bright and optimistic work right now at theaustralian.com.au. 22 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:32,750 Speaker 3: There's an island called Naoshima between Hiroshima and Osaka. The 23 00:01:32,810 --> 00:01:36,830 Speaker 3: island's very well known for two pumpkins by Yayoi Kasama. 24 00:01:38,670 --> 00:01:41,209 Speaker 2: This is Tim Douglas telling me about his recent trip 25 00:01:41,230 --> 00:01:45,900 Speaker 2: to Japan. Two things to know, Yayo Kusama is famous 26 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,660 Speaker 2: for huge sculptures of pumpkins, like we're talking six metres tall, 27 00:01:50,900 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: five and a half metres across, giant pumpkins, painted in 28 00:01:54,980 --> 00:01:57,550 Speaker 2: her signature motif, polka dots. 29 00:01:59,230 --> 00:02:01,330 Speaker 3: The first is when you arrive on the ferry, there's 30 00:02:01,350 --> 00:02:03,350 Speaker 3: this black and red pumpkin that sits there. 31 00:02:03,950 --> 00:02:05,670 Speaker 4: The second one is on the other side of the island. 32 00:02:05,710 --> 00:02:08,470 Speaker 3: Now, to get there, you can walk, but it's quite 33 00:02:08,500 --> 00:02:12,500 Speaker 3: a vertiginous landscape at times. And so I decided to 34 00:02:12,620 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 3: kind of grab a little e-bike and totter along. I 35 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,220 Speaker 3: had a beautiful little basket. It was bedotted, which was 36 00:02:18,260 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 3: an agreeable little compliment to my day. 37 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 4: And so I... Oh, really? It was polka dotted, the bike? Yeah, 38 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:24,180 Speaker 4: it was polka dotted, yeah. 39 00:02:24,220 --> 00:02:27,100 Speaker 3: In tribute to her? Well, I assume so, yeah. And 40 00:02:27,139 --> 00:02:29,140 Speaker 3: so I tottered on up the hill. And you kind 41 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,570 Speaker 3: of get to the Venice City House Museum and... Just 42 00:02:32,610 --> 00:02:35,830 Speaker 3: below that is this pumpkin that's literally called Pumpkin. It's 43 00:02:35,870 --> 00:02:38,870 Speaker 3: on a pier and it's been there since 1994. A 44 00:02:39,430 --> 00:02:42,090 Speaker 3: couple of years ago, that pumpkin was washed away in 45 00:02:42,130 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 3: a typhoon and it was painstakingly remodelled and reworked and 46 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 3: replaced a couple of years ago. I think it's a 47 00:02:50,180 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 3: real metaphor for Kusama herself because there's this pumpkin perch. 48 00:02:54,020 --> 00:02:56,710 Speaker 4: There's a lot of peace here. Precariously on a pier. 49 00:02:57,810 --> 00:03:00,989 Speaker 3: It's kind of framed by the beautiful mountains of the Kawagab. 50 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 3: Prefecture in the background, you know, it sits there on 51 00:03:04,100 --> 00:03:08,340 Speaker 3: this precipice, exposed to the elements, and it feels like 52 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,940 Speaker 3: it could be just one calamitous event away from terminal decline. 53 00:03:13,419 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 4: And yet it endures. 54 00:03:14,580 --> 00:03:18,940 Speaker 3: It's this beautiful beacon of hope and beauty at the 55 00:03:18,990 --> 00:03:19,540 Speaker 3: end of the world. 56 00:03:22,910 --> 00:03:29,410 Speaker 2: Kusama is herself a beacon of hope and beauty. She's 57 00:03:29,410 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 2: 95 years old. And today she's the biggest selling artist 58 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: in the world. Her works are acclaimed by the great 59 00:03:36,740 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 2: critics and curators and by the masses because her work 60 00:03:41,060 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 2: just happens to be perfect for Instagram. But Yayoi Kusama 61 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: lives alone in a psychiatric hospital in Japan and she's 62 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 2: been there since the 1970s. She had a childhood of 63 00:03:54,060 --> 00:03:57,339 Speaker 2: deep trauma. Some of it was shared with the whole 64 00:03:57,380 --> 00:04:00,660 Speaker 2: nation of Japan. And some of it was as intimate 65 00:04:00,900 --> 00:04:05,430 Speaker 2: as you can get. Tim, I was horrified to discover 66 00:04:05,470 --> 00:04:07,610 Speaker 2: the other day that the world's biggest selling artist is 67 00:04:07,650 --> 00:04:09,990 Speaker 2: someone I've never heard of. Why have I never heard 68 00:04:10,030 --> 00:04:11,030 Speaker 2: of Yayoi Kusama? 69 00:04:11,350 --> 00:04:14,190 Speaker 3: Well, you shouldn't be ashamed about that, Claire, because in fact, 70 00:04:14,230 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 3: it's been part of her struggle as an artist for 71 00:04:18,180 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 3: eight decades now to gain that kind of global recognition. 72 00:04:22,870 --> 00:04:26,190 Speaker 2: She was born in 1929, of course, just before the 73 00:04:26,510 --> 00:04:29,790 Speaker 2: immense national trauma that Japan went through of World War II. 74 00:04:30,270 --> 00:04:32,860 Speaker 2: But there's a very personal story of trauma and difficulty 75 00:04:32,890 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: in her life, isn't there? What happened to her? 76 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,660 Speaker 3: Kusama, at the age of about eight, began having these hallucinations, 77 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,260 Speaker 3: these polka dots. That has been the kind of prevailing 78 00:04:41,339 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 3: narrative of her practice for now, you know, 85 years. 79 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:47,060 Speaker 4: She had a difficult childhood. 80 00:04:47,100 --> 00:04:50,290 Speaker 3: Her mother certainly did not encourage her art, in fact, 81 00:04:50,310 --> 00:04:52,370 Speaker 3: would tear it up in front of her Having an 82 00:04:52,430 --> 00:04:54,030 Speaker 3: artist in the family at that time, of course, a 83 00:04:54,050 --> 00:04:57,590 Speaker 3: very conservative time in Japanese history, was to bring shame 84 00:04:57,650 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 3: on the family. Her father was basically an absent dad. 85 00:05:01,620 --> 00:05:05,180 Speaker 3: Her mother would send her on espionage attempts to watch 86 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:10,099 Speaker 3: his many extramarital activities with other women. And she has 87 00:05:10,180 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 3: spoken quite publicly about the sort of lifelong effect and 88 00:05:14,180 --> 00:05:17,460 Speaker 3: fear of sex, in fact, that that has engendered in her. 89 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,260 Speaker 3: She eventually broke away from her family. came across a 90 00:05:21,300 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 3: book of Georgia O'Keeffe paintings. Georgia O'Keeffe, of course, being 91 00:05:25,100 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 3: a star of the American art world at that time 92 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 3: and someone that Kusama really admired because she was not 93 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,370 Speaker 3: only a female who had risen to the top, but 94 00:05:32,460 --> 00:05:38,030 Speaker 3: she painted the same sort of environmental paintings that Kusama painted. 95 00:05:38,490 --> 00:05:41,029 Speaker 3: And so she got in touch with Georgia O'Keeffe. Georgia 96 00:05:41,089 --> 00:05:43,690 Speaker 3: O'Keeffe responded and gave her the numbers of some people 97 00:05:43,730 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 3: in America. And Kusama decided in 1956, it was time 98 00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 3: for her to fulfill this prophecy she had that she 99 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 3: would rise to the top. She left for New York, 100 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,339 Speaker 3: climbed the Empire State Building and kind of said to herself, 101 00:05:58,020 --> 00:05:58,500 Speaker 3: here we go. 102 00:06:00,110 --> 00:06:03,670 Speaker 2: This young Japanese woman hits 1950s America and she starts 103 00:06:03,710 --> 00:06:07,230 Speaker 2: doing something that was blindingly new at the time. Happenings, 104 00:06:07,830 --> 00:06:11,490 Speaker 2: guerrilla art shows, kind of like flash mobs before TikTok. 105 00:06:12,089 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 2: She'd just show up in public with her art. This 106 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,549 Speaker 2: happened at the Venice Biennale in 1966. Kusama wasn't invited 107 00:06:19,610 --> 00:06:22,690 Speaker 2: to show her work, so she showed up anyway, along 108 00:06:22,730 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 2: with 1,500 silver reflective spheres about the size of bowling balls. 109 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,660 Speaker 2: She spread them across the ground right in front of 110 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,100 Speaker 2: the fancy art show, and she stood in the middle 111 00:06:33,140 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: of them wearing a gold kimono. It was quite a sight, 112 00:06:37,500 --> 00:06:40,860 Speaker 2: and it was a direct poke at the self-absorption of 113 00:06:40,900 --> 00:06:44,180 Speaker 2: the art world. That set her on the path to 114 00:06:44,220 --> 00:06:48,220 Speaker 2: becoming one of the world's most provocative and talked-about artists, 115 00:06:48,460 --> 00:06:53,140 Speaker 2: although she had many years of struggle ahead. That work, 116 00:06:53,370 --> 00:06:57,409 Speaker 2: Narcissus's Garden with the Mirrored Balls, has just been purchased 117 00:06:57,430 --> 00:07:01,190 Speaker 2: by the National Gallery of Victoria, the NGV, and it's 118 00:07:01,230 --> 00:07:04,450 Speaker 2: about to stage the biggest retrospective of her work ever 119 00:07:04,589 --> 00:07:07,850 Speaker 2: in the Southern Hemisphere. The NGV has also bought, by 120 00:07:07,890 --> 00:07:13,580 Speaker 2: the way, a giant 11-legged, 9-ton dancing pumpkin. Those two 121 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,860 Speaker 2: sales are part of the annual 90 million US dollars 122 00:07:17,020 --> 00:07:21,140 Speaker 2: Kusama is raking in nowadays, outselling the likes of Jeff 123 00:07:21,180 --> 00:07:22,700 Speaker 2: Koons and David Hockney. 124 00:07:25,380 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 4: How's she regarded now in Japan? 125 00:07:27,060 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 3: Now is a very different story to when she returned 126 00:07:31,140 --> 00:07:34,300 Speaker 3: to Japan in the 1970s. She was treated as a 127 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,460 Speaker 3: bit of a scandal queen there because she'd been part 128 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,260 Speaker 3: of that pop movement. She staged naked protests, which didn't 129 00:07:40,300 --> 00:07:43,490 Speaker 3: translate well in Japan, which of course is still emerging 130 00:07:43,510 --> 00:07:46,730 Speaker 3: from the long shadow of World War II and remains 131 00:07:46,790 --> 00:07:50,450 Speaker 3: a pretty conservative country. And so she didn't really have 132 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 3: an ally at all. There was one young curator at 133 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 3: the time, Akira Tachihata, at the National Gallery who took 134 00:07:58,220 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 3: an interest in her. And in the early 90s, he 135 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,430 Speaker 3: was the commissioner for the Japanese pavilion at the Biennale. 136 00:08:04,810 --> 00:08:07,910 Speaker 3: He chose Kusama. That changed the course of her career. 137 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 3: So today she's regarded as a national treasure. 138 00:08:17,410 --> 00:08:20,950 Speaker 2: Coming up, what life is like now for Yayoi Kusama. 139 00:08:22,030 --> 00:08:24,489 Speaker 2: While I've got you, if you're intrigued by our different 140 00:08:24,570 --> 00:08:27,290 Speaker 2: theme music today on The Front, our producer Jasper Leake 141 00:08:27,330 --> 00:08:30,590 Speaker 2: composed this as a variation on his original theme for 142 00:08:30,610 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 2: The Front, which plays in our weekday episodes. We hope 143 00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:37,330 Speaker 2: you like it as much as we do. We'll be 144 00:08:37,350 --> 00:08:53,170 Speaker 2: back after this break. I love the image of you 145 00:08:53,230 --> 00:08:55,430 Speaker 2: on the polka-dotted bike. You sound like you were the 146 00:08:55,470 --> 00:08:59,150 Speaker 2: most conspicuous person on the island that day. What took 147 00:08:59,170 --> 00:09:00,670 Speaker 2: you to Japan in the first place? Was this the 148 00:09:00,710 --> 00:09:01,330 Speaker 2: point of the trip? 149 00:09:02,610 --> 00:09:03,550 Speaker 4: Not initially. 150 00:09:04,150 --> 00:09:06,390 Speaker 3: Although when I was there, there was an opportunity to 151 00:09:06,429 --> 00:09:09,550 Speaker 3: get to Naoshima presented itself. And, you know, I grabbed 152 00:09:09,570 --> 00:09:11,490 Speaker 3: that with both hands because I'd been wanting to go 153 00:09:11,530 --> 00:09:13,910 Speaker 3: there for 10 years or so. While I was there, 154 00:09:13,929 --> 00:09:18,059 Speaker 3: I met Mr. Tatehata, who is a cultural giant in Japan. 155 00:09:18,100 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 3: He was the former director of the National Gallery in Osaka. 156 00:09:21,900 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 3: He's also an acclaimed poet. And he is one of 157 00:09:25,820 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 3: Kusama's closest friends. He will receive calls from her once 158 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 3: a week. He told me sometimes at two in the morning, 159 00:09:33,950 --> 00:09:37,069 Speaker 3: She will threaten self-harm or she will call in an 160 00:09:37,130 --> 00:09:39,910 Speaker 3: emergency and he will jump in a taxi every time. 161 00:09:40,250 --> 00:09:42,870 Speaker 3: And when he turns up, she will be wide awake 162 00:09:42,910 --> 00:09:44,329 Speaker 3: working and she'll say. 163 00:09:44,350 --> 00:09:49,770 Speaker 4: What are you doing here? And so they have a 164 00:09:49,809 --> 00:09:50,770 Speaker 4: curious relationship. 165 00:09:50,809 --> 00:09:53,110 Speaker 3: It's not romantic in any way, but they are lifelong 166 00:09:53,170 --> 00:09:58,010 Speaker 3: friends and they read poetry to each other and he 167 00:09:58,030 --> 00:10:02,170 Speaker 3: will listen as she sings solos. to him and it's 168 00:10:02,190 --> 00:10:06,450 Speaker 3: a very sweet but also a seriously professional relationship too. 169 00:10:07,340 --> 00:10:11,220 Speaker 2: It's interesting when artists achieve late life success you know 170 00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 2: when anyone who is old becomes famous she's especially vulnerable 171 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: obviously because she has this mental health condition that she's 172 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:22,470 Speaker 2: lived with for so long and Is she okay? 173 00:10:22,490 --> 00:10:25,890 Speaker 3: She has such a great team of medical professionals. She 174 00:10:25,929 --> 00:10:29,230 Speaker 3: feels comfortable in that space. And, of course, the repetitive 175 00:10:29,290 --> 00:10:32,890 Speaker 3: nature of her work, these dots, are seen in many 176 00:10:33,270 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 3: circles as a way of kind of calming her mind. 177 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 3: So she has to work because otherwise she'll be enveloped 178 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 3: by these dots. This idea of obliteration is something that 179 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 3: appears in her work but also appears daily in her mind. 180 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 3: And so she has to control these things with her practice. 181 00:10:49,110 --> 00:10:49,790 Speaker 4: But as Mr. 182 00:10:49,809 --> 00:10:51,949 Speaker 3: Teddy Harder said to me, she's surrounded by so many 183 00:10:51,990 --> 00:10:53,929 Speaker 3: people and so many people around the world love her 184 00:10:53,970 --> 00:10:55,930 Speaker 3: work and they want to be photographed in it and 185 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:00,079 Speaker 3: they want to know her story. And yet she's a 186 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 3: very lonely person. She's disassociated from her family. She's sometimes 187 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,580 Speaker 3: disassociated from herself. And so I think that another kind 188 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 3: of paradox in her psyche that I think is really 189 00:11:11,780 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 3: interesting to explore because she's unlike any artist in that sense. 190 00:11:16,620 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 3: She is a singularity like the dots she paints. 191 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting to think about young people all over 192 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,859 Speaker 2: the world loving her work on Instagram, maybe having some 193 00:11:28,900 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 2: level of engagement with her personal story. Maybe that's part 194 00:11:32,179 --> 00:11:35,819 Speaker 2: of the reason why she's so intriguing. How does it 195 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: feel for you as someone who loves art and is 196 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,580 Speaker 2: very interested in her story personally? Is it slightly troubling 197 00:11:41,700 --> 00:11:43,900 Speaker 2: or is it an inspiring story of what art can do? 198 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 3: I think it's a great story of endurance and never 199 00:11:49,980 --> 00:11:52,940 Speaker 3: giving up. She had this promise to herself that she 200 00:11:52,980 --> 00:11:56,510 Speaker 3: would one day kick everyone's ass and rise to the 201 00:11:56,550 --> 00:11:58,589 Speaker 3: top of the art market and beat everything, beat all 202 00:11:59,110 --> 00:12:01,310 Speaker 3: the fact that she was an ethnic in America, the 203 00:12:01,350 --> 00:12:03,949 Speaker 3: fact that she was a woman at a particularly kind 204 00:12:03,970 --> 00:12:06,590 Speaker 3: of febrile, male-dominated time. 205 00:12:06,450 --> 00:12:09,530 Speaker 4: In the US. And she never really gave up that hope. 206 00:12:09,610 --> 00:12:13,210 Speaker 3: Now, whether that has to do with her obsessive nature, 207 00:12:13,230 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 3: and it probably does, is something that I can't answer, 208 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,260 Speaker 3: but I do think it's a great story of endurance. 209 00:12:21,610 --> 00:12:23,350 Speaker 2: Well, I feel a lot cooler than I did before 210 00:12:23,370 --> 00:12:25,230 Speaker 2: we started this interview, Tim, so thank you very much. 211 00:12:25,450 --> 00:12:25,990 Speaker 4: Thank you, Claire. 212 00:12:32,429 --> 00:12:38,270 Speaker 2: Tim Douglas is The Australian's review editor. His beautiful section 213 00:12:38,390 --> 00:12:42,330 Speaker 2: is available inside The Australian today. I'd recommend buying the 214 00:12:42,429 --> 00:12:45,210 Speaker 2: print copy at your local shop, by the way. Review 215 00:12:45,290 --> 00:12:48,710 Speaker 2: is a great weekend treat in our house. And, of course, 216 00:12:48,809 --> 00:12:54,380 Speaker 2: you can read it all at theaustralian.com.au. The NGV's Yayoi 217 00:12:54,420 --> 00:12:57,500 Speaker 2: Kasama exhibition opens in Melbourne on December 15th.