1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:02,200 Speaker 1: So the first thing I was going to ask you 2 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: is why have I never heard of Yayoi Kusama? And 3 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: should I be ashamed of myself? You know? From The Australian. 4 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: This is the weekend edition of The Front. I'm Claire Harvey. 5 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: This is our first episode and something new we're doing 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: here on the Front, regular weekend episodes where we bring 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: you the best of arts and culture. The weekday news 8 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: gets so busy we don't often get a chance to 9 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: pause and talk about the things we love a lot, film, TV, 10 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: the visual arts, dance music. Today I'm sitting down with 11 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: one of The Australian's smartest people, Tim Douglas. He's the 12 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: editor of Review and he's recently returned from a trip 13 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: to Japan exploring the work of one of that country's 14 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: most mysterious and intriguing artists, who also happens to be 15 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: wildly popular around the world. You can watch a video 16 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: of my interview with Tim and see some of Yayoi 17 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: Kassama's heart burstingly bright and optimistic work right now at 18 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,199 Speaker 1: the Australian dot com dot au. 19 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 2: There's an island called Nawshima between Hiroshima and Osaka. The 20 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 2: island's very well known for two pumpkins by Yeyo Kisama. 21 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: Visus Tim Douglas telling me about his recent trip to Japan. 22 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: Two things to know. Yao Kasama is famous for huge 23 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: sculptures of pumpkins, Like we're talking six meters tall, five 24 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 1: and a half meters across, giant pumpkins painted in her 25 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,839 Speaker 1: signature motif Polka dots. 26 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: The first is when you arrive on the ferry, there's 27 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 2: this black and red pumpkin that sits there. The second 28 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 2: one is on the other side of the island. Now 29 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: to get there, you can walk, but it's quite vitigenous 30 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 2: landscape at times, and so I decided to kind of 31 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: grab a little e bike and totter along and have 32 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 2: a beautiful little basket. It was bedotted, which was an 33 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 2: agreeable little compliment to my day. 34 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 3: And so I, oh, really it was Poka dot tribute 35 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 3: to her, well, I assume, so yeah, And so I 36 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 3: tore it on up the hill and you kind of 37 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 3: get to the Benic House Museum and just below that 38 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 3: is this pumpkin that's literally called pumpkin. 39 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: It's not a peer and it's been there since nineteen 40 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 2: ninety four. A couple of years ago. That pumpkin was 41 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 2: washed away in a typhoon and it was painstakingly remodeled 42 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 2: and reworked and replaced a couple of years ago. I 43 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: think it's a real metaphor for Kasama herself, because there's 44 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 2: this pumpkin purchase a lot of peace here precariously on 45 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 2: a pier. It's kind of framed by the beautiful mountains 46 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 2: of the Kowaga Prefecture in the background. You know. It 47 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: sits there on this precipice, exposed to the elements, and 48 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 2: it feels like it could be just one calamitous event 49 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 2: away from terminal decline, and yet it endures. It's this 50 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 2: for beacon of hope and beauty at the end of 51 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 2: the world. 52 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: Kasama is herself a beacon of hope and beauty. She's 53 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: ninety five years old and today she's the biggest selling 54 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: artist in the world. Her works are acclaimed by the 55 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: great critics and curators and by the masses because her 56 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: work just happens to be perfect for Instagram. But Yayoi 57 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: Kosama lives alone in a psychiatric hospital in Japan, and 58 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: she's been there since the nineteen seventies. She had a 59 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: childhood of deep trauma. Some of it was shared with 60 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: the whole nation of Japan, and some of it was 61 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: as intimate as you can get. Tim I was horrified 62 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: to discover the other day that the world's biggest selling 63 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: artist is someone I've never heard of. Why have I 64 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: never heard of? Yayoi Kosama. 65 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: Well, you shouldn't be ashamed about that, Claire, because in fact, 66 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: it's been part of her struggle as an artist for 67 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 2: eight decades now to gain that kind of global recognition. 68 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: She was born in nineteen twenty nine, of course, just 69 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: before the immense national trauma that Japan went through of 70 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: World War Two. But there's a very personal story of 71 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: trauma and difficulty in her life, isn't there What happened 72 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: to her? 73 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 2: Kasama at the age of about eight, began having these hallucinations, 74 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 2: these polka dots. That has been the kind of prevailing 75 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 2: narrative of her practice for now eighty five years. She 76 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 2: had a difficult childhood. Her mother certainly did not encourage 77 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 2: her art, in fact, would tear it up in front 78 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 2: of her. Having an artist in the family at that time, 79 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 2: of course, a very conservative time in Japanese history was 80 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 2: to bring shame on the family. Her father was basically 81 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: an absent dad. Her mother would send her on kind 82 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 2: of espionage attempts to watch his many extramarital activities with 83 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: other women, and she has spoken quite publicly about the 84 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 2: sort of lifelong effect and fear of sex in fact, 85 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 2: that that has engendered in her. She eventually broke away 86 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 2: from her family came across a book of Georgia O'Keeffe paintings. 87 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,679 Speaker 2: Georgia O'Keeffe, of course, being a star of the American 88 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: art world at that time, and someone that Kassama really 89 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: admired because she was not only a female who had 90 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 2: risen to the top, but she painted the same sort 91 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: of environmental paintings that Kasama painted, and so she got 92 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 2: in touch with Georgia o'keeff. Georgia O'Keefe responded and gave 93 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 2: it the numbers of some people in America, and Kassama 94 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 2: decided in nine point fifty six it was time for 95 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: her to fulfill this prophecy she had that she would 96 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 2: rise to the top. She left for New York, climbed 97 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 2: the Empire State Building and kind of said to herself, 98 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 2: here we go. 99 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 1: This young Japanese woman hits nineteen fifties America, and she 100 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: starts doing something that was blindingly new at the time, 101 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: happenings gorilla art shows, kind of like flash MORBs. Before TikTok, 102 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: she'd just show up in public with her art. This 103 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: happened at the Verna Spionali in nineteen sixty six. Kasama 104 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 1: wasn't invited to show her work, so she showed up anyway, 105 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: along with fifteen hundred silver reflective spheres about the size 106 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: of bowling balls. She spread them across the ground right 107 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: in front of the fancy art show, and she stood 108 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: in the middle of them, wearing a gold kimono. It 109 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: was quite a sight, and it was a direct poke 110 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: at the self absorption of the art world that set 111 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: her on the path to becoming one of the world's 112 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: most provocative and talked about artists, although she had many 113 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: years of struggle ahead that work. Narcissus's Garden with the 114 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,799 Speaker 1: Mirrored Balls has just been purchased by the National Gallery 115 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: of Victoria the NGV, and it's about to stage the 116 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: biggest retrospective of her work ever in the Southern Hemisphere. 117 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: The MGV has also bought by the Way a giant, 118 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: eleven legged nine ton Dancing Pumpkin. Those two sales are 119 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: part of the annual ninety million in US dollars. Kasama 120 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: is raking in nowadays, outselling the likes of Jeff Koons 121 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: and David Hockney. 122 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 2: How she regarded now in Japan now is very different 123 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 2: story to when she returned to Japan in the nineteen seventies. 124 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 2: She was treated as a bit of a scandal queen 125 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 2: there because she'd been part of that pop movement. She 126 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: staged naked protests, which didn't translate well in Japan, which 127 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 2: of course was still emerging from the long shadow of 128 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 2: World War Two and remains a pretty conservative country, and 129 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 2: so she didn't really have an ally at all. There 130 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 2: was one young curator at the time, Akira Tatihata at 131 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: the National Gallery, who took an interest in her, and 132 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 2: in the early nineties he was the commissioner for the 133 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 2: Japanese Pavilion at ban Ali. He chose Kasama. That changed 134 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 2: the course of her career. So today she's regarded as 135 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 2: a national treasure. 136 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: Coming up, what life is like now for Yayoi Kasama, Well, 137 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: I've got you if you're intrigued by our different theme 138 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: music today on the Front. Our producer jazzper Leikue composed 139 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: this as a variation on his original theme for The Front, 140 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: which plays in our weekday episodes. We hope you like 141 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: it as much as we do. We'll be back after 142 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: this break. I love the image of you on the 143 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: Polka Dottra bike. You sound like you were the most 144 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: conspicuous person on the island that day. Probably what took 145 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: you to Japan in the first place. Was this the 146 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: point of the trip? 147 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 2: Not initially though. When I was there, there was an 148 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: opportunity to get to Nashima presented itself, and you know, 149 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 2: I grabbed that with both hands because I've been wanting 150 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: to go there for ten years or so. While I 151 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 2: was there, I met mister Tatihata, who is a cultural 152 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 2: giant in Japan. He was the former director of the 153 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 2: National Gallery in Osaka. He's also an acclaimed poet and 154 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 2: he is one of Kassama's closest friends. He will receive 155 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: calls from her once a week, he told me, sometimes 156 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: at two in the morning, and she will threaten self 157 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 2: harm or she will call in an emergency and he 158 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 2: will jump into taxi every time, and when he turns up, 159 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 2: she will be wide awake working and she'll say, what 160 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 2: are you doing here? And so they have a curious relationship. 161 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 2: It's not romantic in anyway, but they are lifelong friends 162 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: and they read poetry to each other and he will 163 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 2: listen as she sings songs to him. And it's a 164 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 2: very sweet but also a seriously professional relationship too. 165 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 1: It's interesting when artists achieve late life success. You know, 166 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: when anyone who is old becomes famous, she's especially vulnerable 167 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: because she has this mental health condition that she's lived 168 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: with for so long. Is she okay? 169 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: She has such a great team of medical professionals, she 170 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,439 Speaker 2: feels comfortable in that space. And of course the repetitive 171 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 2: nature of her work, these dots are seen in many 172 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 2: circles as a way of kind of calming her mind. 173 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 2: So she has to work because otherwise she'll be enveloped 174 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: by these dots. This idea of obliteration is something that 175 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 2: appears in her work but also appears daily in her mind, 176 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 2: and so she has to control these things with her practice. 177 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 2: But as missus Tady Harta said to me, you know, 178 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: she's surrounded by so many people, and so many people 179 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 2: around the world love her work, and they want to 180 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,559 Speaker 2: be photographed in it, and they want to know her story. 181 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 2: And yet she's a very lonely person. She's dissociated from 182 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 2: her family, she sometimes disassociated from herself, and so I 183 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 2: think is that another kind of paradox in her psyche 184 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: that I think is really interesting to explore, because she's 185 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 2: unlike any artist in that sense, she is a singularity 186 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 2: like the dots she paints. 187 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting to think about young people all over 188 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: the world loving her work on Instagram, maybe having some 189 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: level of engagement with her personal story. Maybe that's part 190 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: of the reason why she's so intriguing. How does it 191 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: feel for you as someone who loves art and is 192 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: very interested in her story personally? Is it slightly troubling 193 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: or is it an inspiring story of what art can do. 194 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 2: I think it's a great story of endurance and never 195 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: giving up. She had this promise to herself that she 196 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,719 Speaker 2: would one day kick everyone's ass and rise at the 197 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 2: top of the art mark and beat everything, beat all 198 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 2: the fact that she was an ethnic in America, the 199 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 2: fact that she was a woman at a particularly fond 200 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 2: of febrile, male dominated time in the US, and she 201 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 2: never really gave up that hope. Now, whether that has 202 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 2: to do with her obsessive nature, and it probably does 203 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 2: is is something that I can't answer, but I do 204 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 2: think it's a great story of endurance. 205 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: Well I feel a lot cooler than I did before 206 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: we started this interview team, So thank you very much, 207 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: Thank you. Clay Tim Douglas is The Australian's Review editor. 208 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: His beautiful section is available inside The Australian Today. I'd 209 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: recommend buying the print copy at your local shop. By 210 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: the way, review is a great weekend treat in our house, 211 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: and of course you can read it all at the 212 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: Australian dot com dot au. The ngv's Yayo Kosama exhibition 213 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: opens in Melbourne on December fifteenth.