Speaker 1: I get it Team Craig, Anthony Harper in a key,
Speaker 1: Unworth Unsworth, whoever that is? And Tiffany Cook. Now David
Speaker 1: is rocked up using who is it in a key?
Speaker 1: Can we shout out thicker? I'm sorry. I give a
Speaker 1: shout out to Nica.
Speaker 2: Whose who INCA is? So? Inca is the CEO of
Speaker 2: the Free School the you know, the charity that I
Speaker 2: run for the video I do.
Speaker 1: And you have hijacked her laptop. Clearly I've hijacked her account.
Speaker 1: I'd say, okay, all right, well that's fine. Hi tiv
Speaker 1: Hi you all right, Yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 2: Thanks.
Speaker 1: You're a little bit you felt a little bit left out,
Speaker 1: a little bit like a virtual orphan because you couldn't
Speaker 1: get into the call and you cracked the sads and
Speaker 1: your bottom lip was out. You opened my abandonment wound
Speaker 1: and that I'm nursing it now, but I'll be okay,
Speaker 1: I've been nursing it for years.
Speaker 2: Right, Well you rip it open again.
Speaker 1: Well, you jumped on the call with two other people,
Speaker 1: and of the two people on the call, but you
Speaker 1: told Gollespo he was your favorite. Fucking hell really, in
Speaker 1: that moment with that open wound.
Speaker 2: He was, Yeah, he was.
Speaker 1: Now David Gillespie makes me look good at self promotion,
Speaker 1: and I'm shit at self promotion. He's worse. He is
Speaker 1: he needs to do a workshop or get some self
Speaker 1: esteem or I don't know. But so he's putting his
Speaker 1: articles on substack, which is a really good repository of
Speaker 1: interesting information.
Speaker 2: So you go to H. D.
Speaker 1: Gillespie dot substack dot com forward slash. Did I fuck
Speaker 1: that up? David?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I think that's right. As you
Speaker 2: point out, I'm really terrible at marketing. You do either
Speaker 2: go there or you just look for the name of it,
Speaker 2: which is ra in hell r A I S I
Speaker 2: n h E double L.
Speaker 1: I will have it all in the show notes. I'll have.
Speaker 2: Terrific thank you.
Speaker 1: At least there's one person who's got a.
Speaker 2: Fucking one who knows where to find one.
Speaker 1: Yes, And when he says it's called when he says
Speaker 1: it's called cracker biscuits, it's not. That's an article he wrote.
Speaker 1: So his repository of articles is not called that. That's
Speaker 1: one of the articles. All right, So firstly, welcome and
Speaker 1: thank you again as always. Well, I won't say that
Speaker 1: because you could be ship. So I'll just put an
Speaker 1: asterisk next to that for the moment. Do you know
Speaker 1: how many people love you? I get sick of people
Speaker 1: going I love David on can he come on once
Speaker 1: a week? I'm not like, fuck him? No he cannot.
Speaker 1: He's on once a fortnight. And that's almost too much.
Speaker 1: You did an article, No, not at all, you did
Speaker 1: an article called cracker biscuits. I'm going to read the
Speaker 1: little the little blurb. Supermarket cracker ales are daunting, a
Speaker 1: daunting landscape. Shells are packed with options, boasting a huge
Speaker 1: variety of flavors, textures, and crucially fat and sugar contents.
Speaker 1: But fear and not. Cracker connoisseurs are brave the aisles
Speaker 1: scrutinizing the nutrition labels of how did you do this?
Speaker 1: Two hundred and sixty two different cracker biscuits available at
Speaker 1: our major supermarkets, Colls and Woollies? So you don't have to?
Speaker 1: Can I ask before you tell us the outcome and
Speaker 1: the data? How do you do that? Do you'd use
Speaker 1: some program to analyze the info that you get from
Speaker 1: the internet?
Speaker 2: And I wish, I wish I could, but no, I
Speaker 2: actually just go and look at their websites, and then
Speaker 2: even then their websites are a bit rubbish in places.
Speaker 2: So sometimes I just go to the supermarket.
Speaker 1: Wow, two hundred and sixty. I mean that would take
Speaker 1: a week?
Speaker 2: Yeah it did, Yeah, at least. Wow. That is the
Speaker 2: worst bit about it is that the particularly the fat content,
Speaker 2: because one of the things I'm really interested in is
Speaker 2: the pollyun search rated fact content. We can talk about why,
Speaker 2: but they're not required to label that property properly, so
Speaker 2: very very few brands do, and you've got to actually
Speaker 2: work it out based on the bits and pieces of
Speaker 2: information they give you, and that can be a bit challenging.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're reasonably evasive. I always say to people the
Speaker 1: reason that the actual information is in the tiniest font
Speaker 1: of all time, at the bottom of the back, in
Speaker 1: the most inconspicuous place ever, is because they don't want
Speaker 1: you to read it. You know, the stuff on the
Speaker 1: front is not information, it's advertising. The actual information is
Speaker 1: hard to find, all right, So speaking of information, what
Speaker 1: did you find?
Speaker 2: Okay? So if if you don't mind, well, let's divide
Speaker 2: in the world is divided into I guess people who
Speaker 2: can deal with gluten and people who can't but if
Speaker 2: you're one of the people who can deal with gluten,
Speaker 2: then the absolute best choice rye cruskets or ryveaters, as
Speaker 2: long as you don't mind eating cardboard, which is pretty
Speaker 2: much how I feel those things are. But you know,
Speaker 2: if you want to be absolutely top of your game,
Speaker 2: I am not eating any unnecessary polloy unsaturated fat. I
Speaker 2: am not eating any unnecessary sugar. They are it. If
Speaker 2: you're more interested in stuff you can shove under your
Speaker 2: cube of cheese at your Sunday afternoon barbie, then you
Speaker 2: might be tempted to go for something like jats, which
Speaker 2: would be a bad call because they have fairly significant
Speaker 2: amounts of pollo unsaturated fat. So let me just say
Speaker 2: how much that is. That's around ten point six grams
Speaker 2: per one hundred grams. Now, to put that in context
Speaker 2: from an evolutionary perspective, we need about six grams of
Speaker 2: polounsaturated fat to day, and we get it anything we eat.
Speaker 2: We don't have to specially, you know, just eat a
Speaker 2: normal diet. You'll get that easily. So having ten point
Speaker 2: six just in what you're putting under your piece of
Speaker 2: cheese and adding a teaspoon and a half of sugar
Speaker 2: for every hundred grams there, and you are necessarily adding
Speaker 2: some significantly pro inflammatory fats into your system. So we
Speaker 2: can come back to why that matters. But so there
Speaker 2: are better choices. Water crackers are a terrific choice, even
Speaker 2: better than that wafer crackers. So the sort of fancier
Speaker 2: version of water crackers, you know, just playing wafer ones.
Speaker 1: Good for the Catholics, good for the Catholics to know.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And the even better news
Speaker 2: is the cheapest ones are the best of the coals,
Speaker 2: and the Woolies brand wafers really nice choices there.
Speaker 1: When you stay wafers, like, what are they called? Are
Speaker 1: they called wafers?
Speaker 2: Call wafers, Yeah, wafer crackers. Sometimes what do.
Speaker 1: They just flour and water? I'm assuming much much? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so they don't tend to add fat to them.
Speaker 2: So so those are the choices there for wheat eaters.
Speaker 2: If you if you're not eating wheat, then you've got
Speaker 2: your rice crackers. And there are some good choices on
Speaker 2: the on the rice cracker front. The Fantastic brand seaweed
Speaker 2: flavored rice cracker has no fat in it at all. Zero.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So it's a it's a decent choice. And yeah, there's
Speaker 2: quite a few good choices in rice crackers, because there's
Speaker 2: quite a few where they don't add fat to them.
Speaker 2: But if we look at the other end of the scale, too,
Speaker 2: some of.
Speaker 1: The worst choices are things that people do toaut as
Speaker 1: being particularly helpful.
Speaker 2: So I don't know if you've noticed or not. You know,
Speaker 2: probably on the on the party circuit, like you all
Speaker 2: the time, you probably have noticed this. But there's a
Speaker 2: bit of a trend, a bit of a trend towards
Speaker 2: what they call seed crackers, which aren't really made of
Speaker 2: flour or rice or anything like that. What they're made
Speaker 2: of is sort of little compressed discs of seeds. So
Speaker 2: you know those things they used to give budgies to
Speaker 2: chew on in their cages, the little bells.
Speaker 1: Yes, I think they still do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, imagine that. But flat as a cracker that is
Speaker 2: sold as seed crackers, and there's quite a lot of
Speaker 2: them on the market now, like quite a lot of them.
Speaker 2: They are really really bad choice. Like so the worst
Speaker 2: I found was a brand called Olinas, which is simply
Speaker 2: seed crackers. They are come in at thirty two point
Speaker 2: nine grams per hundred grams of plout saturated fat. And
Speaker 2: it's not because they add any fat to it. They
Speaker 2: don't add oils or anything to it. It's the seeds themselves.
Speaker 2: So just eating I compressed bunch of the seed gives
Speaker 2: you enough of this plown saturated fat to make them
Speaker 2: quite really quite something to be avoided. Do you know.
Speaker 1: I just want to ask you something, so I'll just
Speaker 1: get a little pen and pay here. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: do some maths on the go. There's an interesting thing
Speaker 1: that So did you say thirty two point nine grams
Speaker 1: of fat per hundred grams?
Speaker 2: Yep? No, no, no, not of fat, of fulling out
Speaker 2: saturated fat. So that's yeah, the total fat is much
Speaker 2: more than that, really per hundred gram per hundred grams?
Speaker 1: Yeah, ballpark? What do you reckon it is?
Speaker 2: Oh? I could look it up, but yeah, so let
Speaker 2: me have a look here, all.
Speaker 1: Right, because I've got I've got something else I want
Speaker 1: to talk about related to this. Yeah, I think people
Speaker 1: don't think about, so just find out.
Speaker 2: Okay, here I hang on it. Yeah, I'm almost there.
Speaker 2: Scrolling through the Forredschieck forty seven grams forty seven grams
Speaker 2: of fat almost half fat.
Speaker 1: Now can you tell me while you're there, how many
Speaker 1: calories are per hundred grams of fat? No, per hundred
Speaker 1: grams of the product.
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know per hundred grads of the product,
Speaker 2: but it's nine for fat and four for everyone else.
Speaker 2: I know that. So what I was thinking, that's looking
Speaker 2: at about half Yeah, so it's about nine hundred, no ninety,
Speaker 2: So you're you're a guy with the pen and paper.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So four twenty three calories just in fat.
Speaker 1: Now what's interesting. The interesting thing about this is people
Speaker 1: would look at that and go, oh, it's forty seven
Speaker 1: grams of fat per one hundred grams of product, and
Speaker 1: then I go, no, hang on, four hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: three calories are from fat of the total calories, which
Speaker 1: might be something like six hundred, give or take. What
Speaker 1: that means is that from an energy point of view,
Speaker 1: about eighty or eighty five percent of the energy or
Speaker 1: calories come from fat. So when you measure, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like, if we go by weight, we go it's
Speaker 1: forty seven pcent. But if we go here's the total calories,
Speaker 1: how many of those calories come from fat? You find
Speaker 1: out that it's more like eighty five percent fat rather
Speaker 1: than forty seven. Because what matters in any food with
Speaker 1: these things is like because if it was only about
Speaker 1: the weight of food, you know, it's because like a
Speaker 1: Mars bars is sixty grams and it's probably got more
Speaker 1: calories than half a kilo of watermelon. Right, So it's
Speaker 1: quite deceptive and misleading that thing. Where we go it's
Speaker 1: like four percent milk, they say it's four percent fat,
Speaker 1: But when you have a look at how many of
Speaker 1: the fat the calories in one hundred mili of milk
Speaker 1: are from fat, it actually ends up being around fifty
Speaker 1: percent fat if you use it as how many of
Speaker 1: the calories, what percentage of the calories are from fat
Speaker 1: versus the weight. So what matters in things is not
Speaker 1: the weight, but the nutritional kind of and the energetic content. Anyway, Well,
Speaker 1: although luckily good point, mathematical you know, mathematical point, thank you,
Speaker 1: sadly totally irrelevant in that it's not irrelevant. Don't make
Speaker 1: me come up there. That make me come up there.
Speaker 2: Because evolution has a role in all of this stuff.
Speaker 2: We have a really really well evolved appetite control system
Speaker 2: that can detect exactly how many calories of fat are
Speaker 2: in food and modify our appetite accordingly, so that I.
Speaker 1: Don't think most people have that. Have you had a
Speaker 1: look there's have you been to a fucking shopping center.
Speaker 2: I'm a lawyer. So there's an asterisk s aff for that, right.
Speaker 2: The asterisk says except if you consume fructose, which is
Speaker 2: half off sugar, because fructose messes with that appetite control
Speaker 2: system and makes you unable to properly detect how many
Speaker 2: calories from fat you are actually consuming. So in a
Speaker 2: perfect world, i e. One without a lot of fructose
Speaker 2: in it, which is not our world, what I just
Speaker 2: said would be perfectly accurate. In an imperfect world, you
Speaker 2: have to do all the kind of maths you were
Speaker 2: just doing to have half a hope, and then you
Speaker 2: are still fighting against an appetite control system that says,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm not fool.
Speaker 1: Yes, So I might have point out that while we
Speaker 1: are not in that perfect, that utopian, that utopian world
Speaker 1: that you described, we don't live in that. We live
Speaker 1: in this shit world where everyone eats all that crap.
Speaker 1: But there is a way you are supporting my case,
Speaker 1: your honor, I.
Speaker 2: Am, But there's a way to get to that utopian world,
Speaker 2: which is just stop eating fructose. Yeah, that will take
Speaker 2: care of itself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but people can't. I mean they can theoretically they can.
Speaker 2: But it's like it so it's a bit tricky.
Speaker 1: It is saying of the bloke who's smoked it may
Speaker 1: just stop tomorrow. Yeah sure, sure, good theory. But I've
Speaker 1: been doing it forty years and I'm super fucking addicted
Speaker 1: and by the way, I love it.
Speaker 2: Luckily, someone in this call has written a book called
Speaker 2: The Sweet Poison Quid Plan.
Speaker 1: Oh well, when did you do that?
Speaker 2: That tells you exactly how to do it?
Speaker 1: All right? You got me there? Fifteen love Gillespie, You
Speaker 1: got me there. I'm fuck now. It's going so good too.
Speaker 1: I had my tail up, I had a bit of
Speaker 1: wind behind me. I was feeling cocky when you just
Speaker 1: come and then the best selling author in Australia comes
Speaker 1: up and fucking smashes it into me. All right, well,
Speaker 1: good point, well smarty pants, carry on.
Speaker 2: What's that hell will we talk talking about?
Speaker 1: You were just self promoting and I couldn't be proud
Speaker 1: of It's about time. What's that book called again?
Speaker 2: Ah? The Sweet Poison Quick Plan.
Speaker 1: Yeah there you go, you've got a sugar issue, but
Speaker 1: you've got a sugar issue, or in fact, any issue.
Speaker 1: Just buy one of his books. We's you know, he's
Speaker 1: doing it hard at the moment. Let's be honest.
Speaker 2: We're even having to do Bloody Free podcast with Craig Harp.
Speaker 1: Do people kind of wonder, like, what's happened to you?
Speaker 1: Do you get? Do they go? Why do you do that?
Speaker 1: It's like my community outreach project.
Speaker 2: You know what, I don't care because I enjoy it.
Speaker 1: Well, that is that is that is the main thing
Speaker 1: I think. All Right, So before we talk about something else,
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about that rhymes with
Speaker 1: Coco pops. Wrap up the wrap up the biscuit conversation for.
Speaker 2: Us, Like, Okay, I've said, I've said a few times,
Speaker 2: we go come back to white matters. Let's just give
Speaker 2: it the pod version of that. Okay, The more poly
Speaker 2: unsaturated fat you have in your diet, the more likely
Speaker 2: you are to have cancer, The more likely you are
Speaker 2: to have Alzheimer's, the more likely you are to have MND,
Speaker 2: the more likely you are to have Parkinson's, you name it.
Speaker 2: This is seriously dangerous stuff. We do not need to
Speaker 2: overload it in our diet. The point of doing these
Speaker 2: guides like that cracker guide is if you want to
Speaker 2: eat crackers, it's possible to do it. It's possible, in fact,
Speaker 2: in almost every food category in a supermarket if you
Speaker 2: actually analyze it, go through and read the two hundred
Speaker 2: and sixty two labels of the brands of stuff in
Speaker 2: the supermarket. There's plenty of good stuff there. There's probably
Speaker 2: twenty or thirty brands there that you'd happily eat. But
Speaker 2: you've got to do that work because they're not going
Speaker 2: to tell you.
Speaker 1: When you write an article like that. Do you do
Speaker 1: that just for that article and just out of curiosity
Speaker 1: and just to put something good out, or do you
Speaker 1: do that with a view two getting that in your
Speaker 1: little mental refidex just on a filing cabinet in your
Speaker 1: brain and go, I'm probably going to use some of
Speaker 1: this in a book down the track. Or is it
Speaker 1: really just for here and now?
Speaker 2: It starts with here and now. But yeah, I find
Speaker 2: doing it myself means that I know a lot about
Speaker 2: our food supply. You know, I could pay people to
Speaker 2: do this and then just look at the results. But
Speaker 2: I find doing it yourself and understanding exactly what food
Speaker 2: producers are using and what they're not using and how
Speaker 2: that's changing just helps me understand what I'm writing about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, let's talk about So you also
Speaker 1: put out another little I don't know if this was
Speaker 1: an article.
Speaker 2: Or just a pause just the post.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just a post. And so there's an image of
Speaker 1: cocoa pops and you write, apparently you can have your
Speaker 1: cake and eat it to cocoa pops, which twenty four
Speaker 1: percent sugar, so a quarter sugar, and get four health
Speaker 1: stars from whoever hands out health stars, the Istralian government,
Speaker 1: I guess indirectly, but what I directly, Yeah, well what
Speaker 1: I loved was and this one, this version of cocoa Pops.
Speaker 1: It's got the promo on the front is seven essential
Speaker 1: vitamins and minerals and it's got source of fiber. It
Speaker 1: doesn't say what, just says those words, and then it
Speaker 1: says twenty five percent less sugar, but nonetheless it's still
Speaker 1: one quarter sugar. Yep. And yeah, go on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the normal full strength Cocoa Pops thirty two
Speaker 2: percent sugar and they only get two and a half stars.
Speaker 2: So the little monks at the labs at Cocoa pop
Speaker 2: Land have had a look at the formula used to
Speaker 2: calculate these health stars. He said, do you know what,
Speaker 2: if we chuck a multivitamin in there and really up
Speaker 2: the fiber count and take a little bit of the
Speaker 2: sugar off the top, we could get ourselves four stars.
Speaker 2: This is pretty much health food then, And to me,
Speaker 2: that's the problem with the star system. It is a formula.
Speaker 2: It takes account of a lot of things which are
Speaker 2: frankly irrelevant, which is the fiber content, content, you know,
Speaker 2: things like that, and produces this thing, which is people
Speaker 2: are meant to take as a recommendation. Now, the trouble
Speaker 2: with that is I have found that if as a
Speaker 2: general rule you use it in reverse, it's actually pretty handy.
Speaker 2: So but for example gets one star, margarine gets four
Speaker 2: or five stars, you know you'll find yourself veering towards
Speaker 2: a real food diet, as our ancestors ate, if you
Speaker 2: really just buy one star food and avoid with as
Speaker 2: much as possible anything that's got four or five stars,
Speaker 2: including this garbage.
Speaker 1: How ironic, how funny, how interesting? I mean, there must
Speaker 1: be a couple of exceptions. But as a kind of
Speaker 1: a rough guide. What else off the top of your head,
Speaker 1: what else gets one or two stars from the government
Speaker 1: that you would think is five?
Speaker 2: Well, anything, so anything. The star system bias is heavily
Speaker 2: against saturated fat because in the bad old days of nutrition,
Speaker 2: which is probably still pretty much with us, the dietitians
Speaker 2: say saturated fat is bad for you because they have
Speaker 2: this ridiculous theory that you know, fat makes you fat
Speaker 2: and saturated fat gives you heart disease. And neither of
Speaker 2: those things are true except in very particular circumstances, and
Speaker 2: neither of those things have ever been proven scientifically in
Speaker 2: any kind of a study that anyone would respect. Nevertheless,
Speaker 2: it's the basis of our nutritional advice, and it's certainly
Speaker 2: the basis of the Star system. So anything that's got
Speaker 2: saturated fat in and it's going to do really badly,
Speaker 2: yogat's going to do badly, Cheese is going to do badly.
Speaker 2: You know, milk's going to do badly, except that they
Speaker 2: put an adjustment into the formula to sort of fix
Speaker 2: the fact that milk was doing badly even though it's
Speaker 2: clearly not bad for you, you know. So, and things that
Speaker 2: will do well are things that food manufacturers can look
Speaker 2: at the formula and say, okay, well, how do we
Speaker 2: manipulate this. We reduce the saturated fat content. The best
Speaker 2: way to reduce saturated fat content is used something like
Speaker 2: soy oil or canola or something like that. Lower saturated fat,
Speaker 2: higher polyunsaturated fat. So they're actually doing the opposite of
Speaker 2: what the science says is good for us. They're putting
Speaker 2: our food for polyunsaturated fats. They get more health stars
Speaker 2: by doing it because saturated fat is lower, and the
Speaker 2: formula rewards them for that. And the end result is
Speaker 2: that they recommend foods to us which are really very
Speaker 2: very bad for us. And that's why I say, if
Speaker 2: you must use the health stars, use them in reverse.
Speaker 1: This is a whole other conversation. But some people would
Speaker 1: be listening to this saying, if all that is true.
Speaker 1: You know that butter is not bad, that you know
Speaker 1: steak cooked in you know olive oil is not bad,
Speaker 1: and that cheese is not terrible, and you know, then
Speaker 1: why is the government so slow to catch up to science?
Speaker 1: And like what what?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: For?
Speaker 1: Most people now know that something close to whatever whatever
Speaker 1: you want to call it, a whole whole kind of
Speaker 1: food or paleo where you're eating lots of different meat
Speaker 1: and good oils and veggies and few fruits, and most
Speaker 1: people kind of, I think, understand that that's way more
Speaker 1: healthy than we once thought. Why is it still so?
Speaker 1: Why are we trapped in the food pyramid, you know,
Speaker 1: low fat, high sugar thinking. Why does it take so
Speaker 1: long to change? Is it just because of the leverage
Speaker 1: that companies and organizations have in terms of controlling the
Speaker 1: market and influencing the government or what is it?
Speaker 2: It's a couple of things. It's that which is there's
Speaker 2: a lot of money on the line here. The two
Speaker 2: biggest supply industries in food sugar and seed oils. So
Speaker 2: the big big worldwide conglomerates control both of those and
Speaker 2: they have a strong vested interest in not having those
Speaker 2: markets damaged. But I guess more importantly on the ground
Speaker 2: is I don't know who said it tiful, no doubt
Speaker 2: know it and can look it up. But you know,
Speaker 2: nutrition science or science improves one funeral lot of time,
Speaker 2: and that's never ever more so than in nutrition science.
Speaker 2: What they mean is that you have to wait for
Speaker 2: the previous generation that had built their careers spouting that
Speaker 2: nonsense to move on before anyone's prepared to stand up
Speaker 2: and say, you know what, this is what the ex
Speaker 2: science actually says.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: Yes, people who've spent forty years building a career telling
Speaker 2: you that saturated fat will kill you are hardly going
Speaker 2: to decide five minutes before they retire that oh, actually
Speaker 2: I was wrong the whole time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well when I did my first degree,
Speaker 1: which wasn't that lot, well it was twenty years ago,
Speaker 1: but even then, that was in two thousand to two
Speaker 1: thousand and three. That's what we were taught, and it
Speaker 1: was already it'd already been kind of disproven in or
Speaker 1: disproved in some circles. But yeah, part of that.
Speaker 2: Trial is it's never actually been proven. The problem is
Speaker 2: that when you actually look at the science on this stuff,
Speaker 2: there were some guesses made, some very big trials funded
Speaker 2: in the sixties and seventies in the United States, and
Speaker 2: they failed to prove anything and didn't get published. And
Speaker 2: so it's not you know, the embarrassment of doing a
Speaker 2: massive trial, wasting millions of dollars of taxpayers money, and
Speaker 2: then failing to prove the theory you set out to prove.
Speaker 2: Overcame everybody, and they didn't publish them anyway. What has happened, though.
Speaker 1: Is there's been some really good work, particularly out of
Speaker 1: the National Institutes of Health in the United States, where
Speaker 1: they have gone back and relooked at the data from
Speaker 1: these trials and concluded, actually, this is what they should
Speaker 1: have published, and things like people on saturated fat diets
Speaker 1: had significantly greater all cause mortality as well as significantly
Speaker 1: greater mortality from heart disease.
Speaker 2: It's no wonder they didn't publish it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's an article I've just open up. It's called
Speaker 1: ansel Keys the Greatest Scant. So he was the guy,
Speaker 1: he was the head researcher in that thing that you're
Speaker 1: talking about, and it was originally it was either twenty
Speaker 1: one or twenty eight countries that they looked at, and
Speaker 1: they ended up wittling seven. That's right, because it was
Speaker 1: either fourteen or twenty one of the country's bays.
Speaker 2: Convenient.
Speaker 1: Yeah, contradicted, completely contradicted his hypothesis, and so he just
Speaker 1: chucked out all the data that didn't suit him and went, oh,
Speaker 1: we did a seven country study, you know, and forgot
Speaker 1: to tell everyone about all the other countries that didn't
Speaker 1: kind of fit in his fucking narrative.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it has been realalyzed, and when you put all
Speaker 2: those countries back in, what you get is nothing, get
Speaker 2: no correlation between saturated fat intake and heart disease death.
Speaker 2: And that would have been a bit disappointing to publish
Speaker 2: at the time. So I guess he didn't.
Speaker 1: Well, especially when I mean, I'm trying to remember this,
Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure his research was funded obviously, I
Speaker 1: mean obviously it was funded funded by people who wanted
Speaker 1: a certain outcome.
Speaker 2: So well, not the least him. He and his wife
Speaker 2: created an empire of out of selling the Mediterranean diet.
Speaker 2: So the Key's Mediterranean Diet, I think probably made him
Speaker 2: a very wealthy man as well as his day job
Speaker 2: of being a senior health advisor to the US government.
Speaker 2: And his Mediterranean diet really proceeded on the basis of
Speaker 2: that seven country study, essentially saying, look, the people who
Speaker 2: don't have heart disease are the people who live around
Speaker 2: the Mediterranean, and we're going to copy their diet. Except
Speaker 2: he didn't really bother trying to find out what their
Speaker 2: diet was. He just made up a largely plant based diet.
Speaker 2: With a bit of olive oil in it said, that's
Speaker 2: a Mediterranean diet.
Speaker 1: Of course he did. Oh, Gallespo, you're a gem. So
Speaker 1: everyone Tiff is going to put a link to Glespo's
Speaker 1: sub stack, kind of little extravaganza that he's doing there.
Speaker 1: So he typically puts up one article a week and maybe.
Speaker 2: Another two or three at the moment, go on hot.
Speaker 1: At the moment he's on fire, he's on follow him.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: He doesn't get a lot of attention, especially at home.
Speaker 1: His wife fresh airs him, his old news. His kids
Speaker 1: don't acknowledge him anymore. So if you could give him
Speaker 1: a bit of love, that'd be great. And his son,
Speaker 1: who's better looking and smarter, is currently hogging the media spotlight.
Speaker 1: Good for him.
Speaker 2: Yes he will again too in a couple of weeks apparently,
Speaker 2: so stay tuned for that one.
Speaker 1: He's killing it. He's killing it. Will say goodbye fare
Speaker 1: but yet again, mate, thank you, appreciate you, See you later.