1 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: It's Friday, November twenty eight, twenty twenty five. The Australian 3 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: Defense Force will have to rely on an aging, vulnerable 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: commercial satellite for battlefield communications for up to eight years 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: after the acting of a planned seven billion dollar system 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: in a cost cutting measure. Experts say the intelsat Is 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: twenty two satellite system is no longer fit for purpose 8 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: and risks being jammed in an electronic warfare attack. A 9 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: concerted push by Muslim groups and the Australian Human Rights 10 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: Commission to remove religion as a motivation for terrorist acts 11 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: has angered Jewish bodies and legal experts, who warn the 12 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: move will underline intelligence work while leaving communities exposed to attacks. 13 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: Fifteen Muslim groups have made a submission to a legislative 14 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: review say the current laws marginalize their community. One of 15 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 1: Australia's best known and most colorful politicians, Barnaby Joyce, is 16 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 1: quitting the National Party and maybe going to Pauline Hanson's 17 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: One Nation at some time in the future. For now, 18 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: he'll sit on the cross benches as an independent in 19 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: the House of representatives. Sarah Son joins me in a moment. 20 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: Sarah Eison is a senior political journalist in the Australians 21 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: Federal Parliamentary Press Gallery Bureau. Sarah, I can't help myself 22 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: whenever I hear the name Barnaby Joyce. I hear a 23 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: little group of girls seeing Barnaby Joyce in the tune 24 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 1: of Chattanooga Chu Chu from the Sewan macaulif Skich show 25 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: mad as Hell is Barnaby Joyce. Barnaby is an intriguing 26 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: character in Australian politics, isn't he he is? 27 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: I think you have that, which is what comes to mind. 28 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,559 Speaker 2: What I always have that comes to mind is when 29 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 2: Barnaby became leader last time, and he's done that a 30 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: few times. I was at the press conference. I was 31 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 2: a very new journalist in Parliament and I got my 32 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 2: question and I asked him, you know, Barnaby, you're the 33 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 2: leader again. How long have you been planning this? And 34 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 2: of course we've been writing about this for days or weeks, 35 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 2: about the speculation. And Barnaby looks into my eyes and 36 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: no word of a lie on the record. His real 37 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 2: comment was, well, Sarah, if I knew this was going 38 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 2: to happen today, I would have brought my hat. That 39 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 2: gave me an insight very early on about exactly the 40 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 2: kind of character of this man, the fact that in 41 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 2: questions and in so much else in life and politics, 42 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 2: he does things very differently, and he is a brand 43 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 2: and a man unto himself. 44 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: I first interviewed Barnaby Joyce when he was a News senator. 45 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: He'd been elected as a Queensland senator actually, and he 46 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: was famously a Queenslander back then, and I was set 47 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 1: up to interview him, and he'd spoken somewhere about how 48 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: he loves swimming in the surf and that was something 49 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: he did every morning. And I said to him on 50 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: the phone setting up this interview, but you're going to 51 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: have to get in the surf for us, and we're 52 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: going to take some photos of you swimming. And he said, okay, 53 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: but only if you get into so as is the 54 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: life of a Genno, I found myself at some country 55 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: airport buying whatever swimsuit they had in the gift shop, 56 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 1: so and I had to get into water with Yeah. 57 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: The last time I had a very long interview with 58 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: Barnaby Claire was for a really big piece on his 59 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 2: battle with prostate cancer and the fact he'd gotten his 60 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 2: prostate removed. And it was a great piece. It was informative, 61 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 2: it was personal, but still there were certain moments that 62 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 2: left things to be desired. I asked him how life 63 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 2: is now, and he kind of gave me this look 64 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: and he said, let's just say some things don't work 65 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 2: like they used to. 66 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: I think those stories will tell us really the same 67 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: thing that he's very good at wrong footing you, Barnaby Joyce. 68 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: He very much manages to keep his feet by ensuring 69 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: that he's opponent, whether it's a journalist or a political opponent, 70 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: it's never quite sure what he's going to do or 71 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: say next. Of course, in twenty thirteen he transferred to 72 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: the House of Representatives, representing the seat of New England, 73 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: which is of course in New South Wales, and then 74 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: spend a lot of years in and around the leadership 75 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: of the National Party. He's now leaving the NATS and 76 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: becoming an independent. 77 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 2: So after thirty years with the National Party, I am 78 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: resigning from the party and that really leads me with 79 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 2: the heavy heart, and I apologize for all the hurt 80 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 2: that that will cause other people. 81 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: I really do Joyce says he might join One Nation 82 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: in the future. I haven't made that decision yet. I've 83 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: made a decisions too. Well, that's I don't know I've 84 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: made that decision. He'll be one of eleven independents. There are, 85 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: of course, ninety four seats held by the Australian Labor 86 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: Party and forty three by the opposition. What's the point 87 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: of being an independent in that parliament? The government can 88 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: get its legislation through without a single independent vote. 89 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you could say the same thing about 90 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 2: if he'd joined One Nation. Obviously he wants to join 91 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 2: One Nation at the next election on the Senate ticket. 92 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 2: His option outside of becoming an independent would have been 93 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,679 Speaker 2: to be in One Nation's MP right, and the same 94 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 2: thing as what you're saying, what's the point would be 95 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: a similar question. And I think the reason he's done 96 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 2: this is just he's really had enough and regardless of 97 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: the timing and maybe the impact he could have within 98 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 2: the NATS and the coalition, he's over it and he 99 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 2: wanted to defect. 100 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: Pauline Hanson has been aggressively courting Barnaby Joyce. What would 101 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: she see in him? 102 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 2: I mean, he is a firebrand politician. He has a brand, 103 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: and that brand on pretty much every point. Maybe not 104 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: some social policies, but points that matter, particularly climate change. 105 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 2: Those views of his that he's very loud about, I 106 00:05:55,720 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: mean they align with herbs. Barnaby is someone that people 107 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 2: know his name, just like people know who Pauline Hanson is. 108 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: Barnaby I suspect would want to be leader. He's a 109 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: bit of a natural leader. I think he likes to 110 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: be listened to. It's going to be difficult to have 111 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: him in the room but not have him be the boss, 112 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: isn't it. 113 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 2: I think people think different things about this. You're right, 114 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: Barnaby likes to be the leader, but he is getting on. 115 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 2: I spoke to Barnaby earlier this year for a big 116 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 2: interview with The Australian about his battle with prostate cancer 117 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 2: and how that had really brought things home for him 118 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 2: when it came to his family and mortality and so on. 119 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 2: So to say that he will definitely have leadership ambitions, 120 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 2: I don't think we can be sure of that necessarily. Also, 121 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 2: One Nation is so different to not just the NATS 122 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 2: but the Coalition. I feel like he's just going to 123 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 2: be given such free reign and so much prominence with 124 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: this party, almost a pseudo leader in a way. He'll 125 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 2: be up all the time. I mean, I think he 126 00:06:54,800 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 2: could almost be leader and everything, but name, to be honest. 127 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,799 Speaker 1: Coming up, wouldn't it have been better to quit politics 128 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: altogether and hand the seat back to the Nats. There's 129 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: a school of thought that if you're a member of 130 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: the House of Representatives, you have won your seat as yourself, 131 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: but also as a representative of your party. He was 132 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: elected as a National's MP. Some might argue that the 133 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: right thing to do if you decide you don't want 134 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: to be in your party anymore is to resign your 135 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: seat and to let a by election happen, give the 136 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: party an opportunity to put someone else in and win 137 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: it back. Why is Barnaby Joyce not doing that. 138 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 2: Because he wants to stay on in Parliament. I mean, 139 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 2: obviously he wants to write the next election on the 140 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 2: Senate ticket of One Nation and just being out of 141 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 2: the game for all of that time. I don't think 142 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 2: that's necessarily that smart. The thing is, though, Barnaby also 143 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: views the way that he's gone about all of this 144 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 2: is actually in pretty good faith. As much as a 145 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: lot of his colleagues disagree. So I mean, we can 146 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 2: point out a heap of people who defected from their 147 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 2: party and sat as an independent with no intention of 148 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: giving the seat back. Like you can think of Andrew 149 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 2: g who was a National as well. You could think 150 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 2: of maybe David Van or Fatima Payment. That was something 151 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: where they said, oh it doesn't matter, I want this 152 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 2: place with a party, I want to hold it by myself. 153 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 2: Barnaby doesn't want to do that. Like, yes, he is 154 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 2: going to keep sitting in the New England seat for now, 155 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 2: but his long term plan, which has always been pretty clear, 156 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 2: is that he would run on the Senate tickt of 157 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 2: one Nation, essentially handing New England back to the Nationals 158 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: with what he says is a pretty big kitty in 159 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 2: terms of how much fundraising he does and so on. 160 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 2: So again, in Barnaby's view, he has done the right thing. 161 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: There's no doubt Barnaby Joyce is talented and articulate and intelligent, 162 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: but he's also accident prone. He tends to attract scandals. 163 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: Do you think the Nats are glad to see the 164 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: back of him? 165 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: Like maybe yes and no, I suppose yes. In terms 166 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: of scandals yes. In terms of the Nats say, no, 167 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 2: one can tell Barnaby what to do. That's what a 168 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 2: lot of his colleagues say when it comes to this 169 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 2: latest affection. They said, we could beg and play with him, 170 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 2: but if he has decided he's going to go, he's 171 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 2: going to go. 172 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: No. 173 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 2: In terms of his fundraising capacity, he is one of 174 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: the top fundraisers of the Nationals outside of Matt Canavan 175 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 2: and Bridget McKenzie and formerly just Enterprise. He's now with 176 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: the Liberals and no in terms of his brand, if 177 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 2: you think of the Nationals, he's probably a name that 178 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: comes to mind straight away and that'll all go with 179 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 2: Barnaby and what that will mean for the party and 180 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 2: it's resourcing financially and in how much people know about 181 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 2: the Nats talk about the Nets. That's a question and 182 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: I think it is a loss in some ways to 183 00:09:52,800 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 2: the party. 184 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 1: Sarah Eisen is a senior political reporter with The Australian 185 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 1: in Canberra. You can check out all our reporting and 186 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: analysis right now at Beaustralian dot com dot au.