Speaker 1: Sho good evening.
Speaker 2: Well, there's one story in my career as a journalist
Speaker 2: that's never left me. I interviewed the parents of a
Speaker 2: young girl called Brianna Devrees, who was bullied on social
Speaker 2: media so badly that one day she went upstairs to
Speaker 2: her bedroom and never came back down. She was just
Speaker 2: fourteen years old and had her whole life ahead of her.
Speaker 1: Brianna had been.
Speaker 2: Bullied at will Google High near Coffs Harbor in New
Speaker 2: South Wales. Her parents didn't just change schools to help her,
Speaker 2: but even moved into state. Yet through social media, she
Speaker 2: couldn't escape the brutal bullying and it was too much
Speaker 2: for her at such a young age. It's beyond devastating
Speaker 2: and I think back to her and her parents often.
Speaker 2: The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare figures show that
Speaker 2: there's been a two hundred and seventy five percent increase
Speaker 2: in the rates of self harm and hospitalization of girls
Speaker 2: just aged ten to fourteen years old from two thousand
Speaker 2: and eight to twenty twenty one, and social media use
Speaker 2: has been linked to bullying, mental health conditions including anxiety
Speaker 2: and depression, body image issues, poor physical health, and lack
Speaker 2: of sleep, and then there are also concerns around predators
Speaker 2: and pedophiles, not to mention the age inappropriate content that's
Speaker 2: easily accessible.
Speaker 1: Well, this is why Peter.
Speaker 2: Dutton made an important announcement today. He said he'd lift
Speaker 2: the minimum age of social media access from thirteen to sixty.
Speaker 2: Under his proposed laws, there'd be an age verification system
Speaker 2: and heavy penalties for social media companies that don't comply.
Speaker 2: Dartan says children are particularly vulnerable and deserve to be protected.
Speaker 3: We've seen some tragic consequences as a result of that
Speaker 3: online environment having a negative impact on the minds of young,
Speaker 3: impressionable Australians and it's true around the world as well.
Speaker 2: The Shadow Communications Minister David Coleman spoke about how social
Speaker 2: media and all of the problems particularly impacts on young girls.
Speaker 4: The data that we're seeing in relation to the mental
Speaker 4: health of Australian kids is really disturbing, especially relating to girls.
Speaker 4: If you look at things like the self harm rates
Speaker 4: of self harm hospitalizations of girls. Over the last decade,
Speaker 4: we've seen dramatic increases in that and there's no question
Speaker 4: in my mind that social media is playing a significant
Speaker 4: part in that look.
Speaker 2: This issue isn't covered boldly enough mainstream media and on
Speaker 2: our nighttime talk shows, but it is a big issue.
Speaker 2: And in the United States, health experts say that social
Speaker 2: media is the defining public health issue of our time.
Speaker 5: Social media is an important driver of that youth mental
Speaker 5: health crisis.
Speaker 1: This is the defining public health issue of our time.
Speaker 2: Surch In general things Congress can and should do more
Speaker 2: to regulate social media companies the same way safety standards
Speaker 2: are in place for car seats, for example. Well, Peter
Speaker 2: Dutton's push for new laws mirrors what others are doing internationally.
Speaker 2: Florida Governor Ron de Santa's passed the law just in
Speaker 2: March banning children under fourteen from having social media accounts.
Speaker 6: You can have a kid in the house safe, seemingly,
Speaker 6: and then you have predators that can get right in
Speaker 6: there into your own home. You could be doing everything right,
Speaker 6: but they know how to get and manipulate these different.
Speaker 2: Platforms, and other United States states are looking at similar laws.
Speaker 2: So the tech giants will have to develop or introduce
Speaker 2: reform and the tech urgently. But David Coleman says the
Speaker 2: tech's already there yet. Social media companies aren't enforcing the
Speaker 2: age limits that they set.
Speaker 4: At the moment, there is no scenario whether social media
Speaker 4: companies will do the right thing, and so we're going
Speaker 4: to force them to. It's the right thing to do
Speaker 4: and we hope that the government will get behind this.
Speaker 4: The companies will be required to comply with the new
Speaker 4: law and that will include penalties if they don't.
Speaker 2: Well yet to hear exactly what those penalties are, but
Speaker 2: the Coalition says they will be.
Speaker 1: Strong and serious.
Speaker 7: Now.
Speaker 2: Just this week in Australia, Meta has rolled out age
Speaker 2: verification for those who change their age online from fifteen
Speaker 2: to eighteen, so there's reason to be leave that they
Speaker 2: aren't the age that they say they're that they say
Speaker 2: they are. It's very hard for any individual parent to
Speaker 2: pull their kids off social media or tell their young
Speaker 2: teens that they can't sign up to Snapchat or Instagram
Speaker 2: when all their friends already on these platforms and others.
Speaker 1: But if it's the.
Speaker 2: Law, it takes the decision out of parents' hands and
Speaker 2: it means that at least until they're sixteen, social media
Speaker 2: won't be the dominant aspect of their lives. Now, with
Speaker 2: Dutton surging ahead, in the polls and the coalition preparing
Speaker 2: for a possible early election. They're now starting to release
Speaker 2: their policies now. Dutton pledges he'd introduce the social media
Speaker 2: ban for under sixteens within one hundred days if he
Speaker 2: wins government. Now, this is a positive and family friendly.
Speaker 1: Policy that will appeal to parents who.
Speaker 2: Are concerned about how social media will impact or does
Speaker 2: impac ACKed on the life of their children. Well, Peter
Speaker 2: Dutton today offered to work on this policy in a
Speaker 2: bipartisan fashion with the Albanesi government.
Speaker 3: I don't understand what the government's hesitation is at the moment,
Speaker 3: but this is one of those issues where we can
Speaker 3: try and help protect kids online, try and help families
Speaker 3: and parents have the tools that they need to help
Speaker 3: protect their children. But it's one of those issues that
Speaker 3: really should be approached on a bipartisan basis and we'd
Speaker 3: be really happy to work with the Prime Minister and
Speaker 3: the government to see the outcome here and send a
Speaker 3: very clear message that both sides of Parliament stand united
Speaker 3: against the scourge of social media and its influences on
Speaker 3: young minds.
Speaker 7: Well.
Speaker 2: The Prime Minister was asked about all of this at
Speaker 2: a press conference and he couldn't argue with the policy today,
Speaker 2: he did appear frustrated that Peter Dutton was getting credit
Speaker 2: for it. Albanese claimed they were already working on a trial,
Speaker 2: although Labor did shut down legislation November, coalition legislation that
Speaker 2: included minimum age requirements for social media.
Speaker 8: I think very clearly, and the reason why we're doing
Speaker 8: the trial is that social media is having a negative
Speaker 8: impact on young people. I want people to spend more
Speaker 8: time on the footy field or the netball court than
Speaker 8: they're spending on their fonts, very clearly, and a band,
Speaker 8: if it can be effective, is a good way to go.
Speaker 2: Well, let's hope they do progress with this on a
Speaker 2: bipartisan basis because it is important. It will be impossible
Speaker 2: to pull teenagers off social media who are already on it,
Speaker 2: so there's going to have to be a transition period
Speaker 2: for how these laws are introduced, and it could be
Speaker 2: starting with all year seven or year eight students from
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Critics say this will be difficult to enforce, but concern
Speaker 2: about compliance is hardly a reason not to take action.
Speaker 2: And thinking back to Brianna and others like her who
Speaker 2: are struggling thanks to the pervasive nature of social media
Speaker 2: in our lives. Will governments can't afford not to take action.
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: Also coming up on the show tonight, as the Prime
Speaker 2: Minister fails to call out the thuggish behavior of the
Speaker 2: CFMEU will tell you the full list of labor ministers
Speaker 2: who had union paymasters before entering politics. Also tonight, the
Speaker 2: ABC chair launches a scathing attack on Peter Dutton's policies,
Speaker 2: So much for his new era of impartiality. Quilette's Claire
Speaker 2: Lehman will join me later in the show to discuss
Speaker 2: and Hermas yet again destroys another ceasefired deal.
Speaker 1: Anthony Blinkin is.
Speaker 2: Clearly frustrated what will it take for the terror group
Speaker 2: to release innocent hostages? But first, now bring in tonight's panel,
Speaker 2: Perth Mayre, Basil Zemplus and the finn Reviews senior correspondent
Speaker 2: Aaron Patrick.
Speaker 1: Welcome to you both. Now.
Speaker 2: Both of you are fathers, Basil and Aaron, and I'm
Speaker 2: a mum of two young children. I'm dreading the day
Speaker 2: personally that they discover social media and want to go
Speaker 2: online on social media apps if it wasn't an option
Speaker 2: for them until they were sixteen. You don't think that
Speaker 2: they'd be missing out on anything, and in fact, you
Speaker 2: think they'd be happier, healthier, spend more time with their
Speaker 2: actual friends and outdoors.
Speaker 1: Basil, do you think this is.
Speaker 2: A good idea of Peter Dutton's today to ban social
Speaker 2: media for those under the age of sixteen?
Speaker 7: Of course I do. I feel very strongly about this.
Speaker 7: I'm right in that wheelhouse a thirteen year old daughter
Speaker 7: and eleven year old daughter. The six year old son
Speaker 7: is still some while away, and thank goodness for that.
Speaker 7: But yes, it is one of the great cancers in
Speaker 7: and on our society of the modern day, and anything
Speaker 7: we can do to take young people away, not so
Speaker 7: much from online, but in particular the apps, that's where
Speaker 7: the real danger is the apps is something that should
Speaker 7: be reported. Two things I'd say. Firstly, why Anthony Albanezi
Speaker 7: doesn't just come out and say I agree with it.
Speaker 7: It's a great idea, and we already know Peter Malinowskis
Speaker 7: has bang gone about this some time ago, so bipartisan
Speaker 7: is the best way to go here. But secondly, I
Speaker 7: just asked you to consider this when people say we
Speaker 7: won't be able to do it. The kids will find
Speaker 7: a way around it. They're too smart for us. Consider this,
Speaker 7: how much harder has it become to log onto your
Speaker 7: internet banking to make payments online? How much double verification
Speaker 7: has suddenly come into vogue where you need a code
Speaker 7: word that goes to your phone that then you insert there.
Speaker 7: It can be done, and the apps is where it
Speaker 7: should start. If we keep them off the apps, we
Speaker 7: can make their adolescent years that much better. This is
Speaker 7: a great idea.
Speaker 5: We should all in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, and I find that argument are and
Speaker 2: frustrating when people say, I know, you know, kids will
Speaker 2: find a way around this. Well, you've got to start
Speaker 2: with the law. And it's just like anything you know
Speaker 2: that's against the law for those under the age of eighteen,
Speaker 2: whether it's drinking, whether it's driving, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: Of course some kids break the law.
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean you don't have the law for the
Speaker 2: minority that will break it.
Speaker 9: No, No, you're absolutely right, and there's a clear health
Speaker 9: issue that we're trying to deal with here. I would
Speaker 9: just temper though what we're saying by pointing out that
Speaker 9: we are talking about an issue which is going to
Speaker 9: affect millions of families.
Speaker 10: Today.
Speaker 9: Some children get on social media as young as ten.
Speaker 9: It's going to be I think quite It's one thing
Speaker 9: to give a press comments. It's nothing to tell a
Speaker 9: lot of Australian fans families that their children can't do
Speaker 9: what they think they've got entitlement to do. And perhaps
Speaker 9: we should, Perhaps we wish to be more focusing on
Speaker 9: the algorithms that detect giants use to display the kind
Speaker 9: of content that can be really disturbing an age and
Speaker 9: appropriate I would just suggest that's probably a better place
Speaker 9: to start.
Speaker 2: It's not just the age and appropriate content though, it's
Speaker 2: you know, for girls, there's a whole lot of body
Speaker 2: image anxiety, mental health issues wrapped up in trying to
Speaker 2: think compare themselves to the ideal that they see on
Speaker 2: Instagram by the likes of I don't know, celebrities and
Speaker 2: the Kardashians, who themselves spend tens of thousands, probably millions
Speaker 2: of dollars trying to change the way they look. You know,
Speaker 2: all of that is unhealthy for ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen
Speaker 2: year old girls to have to look at on a
Speaker 2: daily basis, not to mention the bullying basil.
Speaker 7: And I think that the apps. In my experience is
Speaker 7: a that the apps is where this real danger kicks around.
Speaker 7: The images and the commentary and the peer group pressure
Speaker 7: can all marry up in the one space, and it's
Speaker 7: the apps, the social media apps in particular, that we
Speaker 7: should try and keep the kids off. Another idea is
Speaker 7: what if kids had to pay for them, So they
Speaker 7: need a credit card or they need a form of
Speaker 7: payment to be able to pay for them. They've got
Speaker 7: to pay their for their Netflix and the like. If
Speaker 7: you haven't got payment details, you can't get on. It's
Speaker 7: not too difficult to do if we turn our minds
Speaker 7: to it. And it's that important, it really is. It's
Speaker 7: that important.
Speaker 2: No, I agree, I agree, And you only have to
Speaker 2: look at the stories, you know, people like Brianna look
Speaker 2: at the figures to know that this really is affecting
Speaker 2: young people. It's our obligation as a society to protect
Speaker 2: young people. But Aaron, don't you think with any big change,
Speaker 2: there's going to be a transition period for about five
Speaker 2: or so years where this is difficult, but then eventually
Speaker 2: the law will be in place across the country that
Speaker 2: you know, you can't have social media apps until you're sixteen.
Speaker 2: If that's what the government settles on or fifteen whatever
Speaker 2: they settle on, and ultimately people will know it's just
Speaker 2: this transition period of getting all the companies on board,
Speaker 2: getting families on board.
Speaker 1: That's a bit tricky.
Speaker 9: Look perhaps, but I think it's also worth bearing in
Speaker 9: mind that not all social media is bad bad for children.
Speaker 9: My good daughter is sixteen and she uses something called Pinterest,
Speaker 9: which is basically about design, and she loves it and
Speaker 9: it's a pretty safe space, and I think I don't
Speaker 9: think there's anything wrong with children using that, So I
Speaker 9: think just.
Speaker 2: As interest is Pinterest to find as social media, though
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that is social media.
Speaker 9: Probably beyond my capabilities to my understanding here, but you
Speaker 9: understand the point I'm going.
Speaker 1: No. I like Pinterest as well, very helpful from time
Speaker 1: to time. Now.
Speaker 2: Peter Dutton has also today hit at it what he
Speaker 2: calls thagish behavior of the unions and he's calling on
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister to condemn CFM EU bus John Secca
Speaker 2: after he declared war on the AFL.
Speaker 1: Have a look.
Speaker 3: The unions serve a useful role, but not when there
Speaker 3: are standover merchant to tactics and bullying tactics to try
Speaker 3: and get outcomes a lot of the hues around.
Speaker 11: Version in the NFL giving it's approgerate for the unions,
Speaker 11: the seat you can involved in Kati and the deppointment
Speaker 11: of CEOs and the high level officients.
Speaker 12: No, so sorry, it's back to unions and John Sector.
Speaker 13: Do you believe that he should give up on his
Speaker 13: campaign against the AFL.
Speaker 8: Yes, it's not very just common sense.
Speaker 2: It comes as the Australian reports today are Jeff Chambers.
Speaker 2: The full number of ministers who worked for the unions
Speaker 2: before entering politics, and it's extensive. It includes Richard Miles, Pennywong,
Speaker 2: Tony Burke, Katie Gallagher, Don Farrell, Amanda Rishworth, Ed hughes At,
Speaker 2: Chris Bowen, Mark Butler, Bill Shorton and Brandon O'Connor and
Speaker 2: Jeff Chambers. Also reports of the those holding union memberships
Speaker 2: include Jim Chalmers, Tanya Plibasset, Catherine King, Linda Bernie Murray Watt,
Speaker 2: Claire O'Neill, Bazil. With a less like this, you wonder
Speaker 2: you know it's not surprising that the Prime Minister isn't
Speaker 2: coming out in a more forciful fashion.
Speaker 7: Well forceful is the word is in first thing, we
Speaker 7: acknowledge that not all members of unions and not all
Speaker 7: union officials are thugs and stand up for merchants, as
Speaker 7: per the behavior that we are seeing reported, But yes
Speaker 7: we would have I mean, how many times does the
Speaker 7: Prime Minister and other ministers for that matter, weighed in
Speaker 7: on issues that really have got nothing to do with them,
Speaker 7: but they're happy to give you their chapter and verse
Speaker 7: opinion on it because it suits them. Now, yes, he
Speaker 7: did say the two right word answers, but he could
Speaker 7: have been far stronger. This behavior demanded a far stronger
Speaker 7: response from the Prime Minister, and I thought that was
Speaker 7: pretty weak from the PM. He needed to make a
Speaker 7: stand on that, and he has hasn't done that. So
Speaker 7: you asked the question, Well, he hasn't made a really
Speaker 7: strong stand on that, so you asked the question why not?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Aaron, you could see he really didn't want to
Speaker 2: be brought into that debate that Anthony Albanezi.
Speaker 9: He so did not want to be answered. He still
Speaker 9: did not want to answer that question. It was the
Speaker 9: least for both I've ever seen him. The amazing thing
Speaker 9: this country is is union membership is down to about
Speaker 9: ten percent, but they still has incredible political power and
Speaker 9: what's happening on the construction sites it's just well it's criminal,
Speaker 9: you know. The judges, the courts have found it to
Speaker 9: be criminal. And I think that the Labor guvernment's decision
Speaker 9: to abolish the independent Commission that policed industry relations on
Speaker 9: construction sites was one of the worst decisions they've ever made.
Speaker 1: Well and not to mention what's going on with virgin as.
Speaker 14: Well, well, that's right, you know, I think when you
Speaker 14: have the problem is we've got a country where unions
Speaker 14: have become so influential in the boardrooms for the control
Speaker 14: of superannuation funds that they're getting.
Speaker 9: To the point where they feel they can dictate to
Speaker 9: management of companies. And that's probably something that is going
Speaker 9: to become more accentuated in the future and it could
Speaker 9: have a huge impact on how business operates in Australia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and already the IRA reform introduced by Tony Burke
Speaker 2: and the Albanezi government is going to make such a
Speaker 2: big difference in terms of how bosses and employees react
Speaker 2: with each other, you know, not being able to contact
Speaker 2: people out of office hours, it's going to change a
Speaker 2: lot of things.
Speaker 1: For how business operates.
Speaker 2: Now, Boso, I want to ask you about the cost
Speaker 2: of living, because we saw today an extraordinary story that
Speaker 2: Perth has officially become one of the hardest cities in
Speaker 2: the world, in the developed world to find a rental
Speaker 2: home where seeing that Perth's a rental vacancy rate is
Speaker 2: sitting at zero point four percent, much tighter than similarly
Speaker 2: populated cities Berlin, Toronto and Auckland. You know, there's even
Speaker 2: we're even hearing that some Perth councils are contemplating raising rates,
Speaker 2: some of even up to eight percent due to inflation
Speaker 2: driving up the cost of services like waste disposal. You know,
Speaker 2: why is it so difficult in Perth in particular?
Speaker 1: Do you think.
Speaker 7: A massive housing crisis? Part of it brought on by
Speaker 7: the current government and they offered incentives to the building
Speaker 7: community and those who were purchasing houses and unfortunately the
Speaker 7: demand that was created and those incentives caused an oversupply
Speaker 7: and unfortunately just not able to get things done. But
Speaker 7: also the social and affordable housing the stock has not
Speaker 7: been added to by the Labor government. They've only in
Speaker 7: seven years, they've only added one hundred and fourteen social
Speaker 7: dwellings to the overall stock of the state government and
Speaker 7: thirty five thousand people are on the public housing wait list.
Speaker 7: Unfortunately for the people of Western Australia, despite incredible economic
Speaker 7: prosperity being felt and enjoyed by the state, largely largely
Speaker 7: through the resources boom and a much improved GST deal,
Speaker 7: there are many people who that does not relate to
Speaker 7: and they have never done it tougher and many people
Speaker 7: have gone backwards under this labor government here in Wa.
Speaker 2: Yeah, cost of living crisis affecting many families, but it
Speaker 2: was a shock to see just how bad the rental
Speaker 2: crisis is in pers Oranges. Before you go, you've written
Speaker 2: a piece in the Finn Review where you talk about
Speaker 2: some of the policies that Peter Dutton has come out with,
Speaker 2: whether it's on climate change or the economy, and just
Speaker 2: how he's pitching slightly more conservative policies. Do you think
Speaker 2: this is a deliberate strategy to try win over some
Speaker 2: of the labor marginal seats in outer suburban areas.
Speaker 9: Sherry, I think Peter Darton has decided he's going to
Speaker 9: be Tony Abbott without God and the royal family. He's
Speaker 9: decided the way to win power is through a conservative
Speaker 9: populist agenda and one of the central strategies is going
Speaker 9: to use as a war on climate. And I think
Speaker 9: he's decided in the short term he probably can't win
Speaker 9: what the so called teal seals teal seats back in
Speaker 9: the inner cities, so he's going for regional and regional
Speaker 9: Australia and out of suburbs in the first instance. I
Speaker 9: think his plan is to knock Albanezy back to a
Speaker 9: minority government and they'll only take three seats. Then we'll
Speaker 9: have three years where he will just nail the government
Speaker 9: week after week through the cross bench. And I think
Speaker 9: he's looked at how Tony Abbott was such an effective
Speaker 9: opposition leader with Peter Krelin's Jeevas staff between twenty ten
Speaker 9: and twenty thirteen and finally they they won government twenty thirteen,
Speaker 9: and I believe that's his approach.
Speaker 2: It's fascinating because there's been a lot of debate about
Speaker 2: how the Coalition manages its policies.
Speaker 1: Does it try appeal to the teals.
Speaker 2: And the out of suburban But what we're potentially starting
Speaker 2: to see with Peter Dutton, what you say we are
Speaker 2: seeing with him, is that he's saying we're not going
Speaker 2: to worry about the Teals, We're just going to pitch
Speaker 2: to mainstream Australia. But with well, you've caught it populist conservative.
Speaker 9: I think I think it's fair. I think it's a
Speaker 9: little bit trump like a little bit. He says that
Speaker 9: he hasn't given up the Teal seats. I don't really
Speaker 9: believe him. And if you speak to liberals in some
Speaker 9: of those seats, they're very very careful how they express it.
Speaker 9: But let's just say I've heard of polling which shows
Speaker 9: that Peter Dutton is as popular in some of those
Speaker 9: seats as Scott Morrison was, which is to say not.
Speaker 1: At all interesting.
Speaker 2: Definitely not the seats where there's a high Jewish population,
Speaker 2: because Peter Dutton has been incredible for our Jewish community.
Speaker 2: All Right, Basil zamplus Aaron Patrick, great to see you both.
Speaker 2: Now coming up, Anthony Albanezi ramps up the climate was
Speaker 2: Graham Lloyd would join me to discuss the more aggressive
Speaker 2: twenty thirty five target that we revealed on this show
Speaker 2: last night.
Speaker 1: Chris Bowen is looking at stay.
Speaker 2: Tuned, welcome back. Well, let's turn now to this week's
Speaker 2: outbreak in.
Speaker 1: The climate work.
Speaker 2: Last night I reported that the Albanezy government's Climate Change
Speaker 2: Authority is aiming for an even higher emissions reduction target
Speaker 2: of sixty five to seventy five percent by twenty thirty five.
Speaker 2: Well Ray Hadley asked Peter Dutton about this today.
Speaker 15: Well, I just can't believe how disconnected they are from
Speaker 15: where people are at the moment. In their own pame
Speaker 15: budgets and in their own small business budget. People can't
Speaker 15: afford another twenty or thirty percent increase in their electricity prices.
Speaker 15: We already pay the highest prices in the world, and
Speaker 15: now they're talking about the sixty five seventy five percent
Speaker 15: target by twenty thirty five. I haven't seen any of
Speaker 15: the economic model, and I don't think the Prime Minister
Speaker 15: has either. So it needs to be transparent and honest
Speaker 15: with the Australian public about what does it mean, particularly
Speaker 15: if the economy goes into recession.
Speaker 2: Okay to discuss this, let's bring in now the Australians
Speaker 2: Environment editor Graham. Lloyd Graham, good to see you.
Speaker 1: Look.
Speaker 2: The Prime Minister has criticized Peter Dutton for pulling out
Speaker 2: of the twenty thirty climate targets, but experts and even
Speaker 2: the Gratin Institute is doubting whether labor will be able
Speaker 2: to meet their current emissions reduction targets by twenty thirty,
Speaker 2: which are forty two percent.
Speaker 16: What do you think, well, good, evening Cherry. This is
Speaker 16: really the key question out there at the moment is
Speaker 16: whether there is any prospect at all of the government
Speaker 16: meeting the target that is there. It's very easy to
Speaker 16: set a target and it's much more difficult to meet it.
Speaker 16: And what it's fair to say is that it's proving
Speaker 16: a lot more difficult than the government would have ever envisaged.
Speaker 16: Things are taking longer, they're more expensive, and it's not
Speaker 16: going as planned. So the view in the industry and
Speaker 16: in the think tanks is that this is pretty tough
Speaker 16: and we won't get there. And it's interesting to see
Speaker 16: even the Gratin Institute and others who are really pushing
Speaker 16: the government to adopt these sort of targets and now saying, oh, well,
Speaker 16: we never said it would be easy. But it's really
Speaker 16: that the Albanesi government that's left holding the can.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's interesting, So they doesn't look according to
Speaker 2: the experts, it doesn't look like they're going to meet
Speaker 2: the forty two percent target in twenty thirty, and yet
Speaker 2: the Climate Change Authority is on record in their twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four Issues paper discussing targets of between sixty five
Speaker 2: and seventy five percent by twenty thirty five. I mean,
Speaker 2: if you're not going to meet forty two percent by
Speaker 2: twenty three, then isn't it a massive stretch to expect
Speaker 2: the government to get to sixty five to seventy by
Speaker 2: twenty thirty five? And Graham, I mean a seventy five
Speaker 2: percent target by twenty thirty.
Speaker 1: Is what the Greens took to the last election.
Speaker 2: So these are quite ambitious and aggressive targets.
Speaker 16: Well they are, and this is the nature of what's happening.
Speaker 16: They're really reverse engineering the expectations of the UN Climate
Speaker 16: Establishment that we have to really form everything around meeting
Speaker 16: a target of keeping temperatures below one point five degrees.
Speaker 16: So that is where that target of sixty five to
Speaker 16: seventy five comes from. That if we do that, then
Speaker 16: we're going to be on track for what the UN
Speaker 16: hopes is going to happen with the climate. There's two
Speaker 16: problems with that. One is that it's easy to set
Speaker 16: the figure, but unless you actually achieve the reductions, it's
Speaker 16: all been for no point. And the other is that
Speaker 16: Australia is not alone in not meeting its targets. In fact,
Speaker 16: very few places, in fact, virtually nobody is meeting the
Speaker 16: reduction targets that they've promised. And even the targets that
Speaker 16: have been promised are not enough to achieve what the
Speaker 16: UN wants to happen. So there's two sort of worlds
Speaker 16: going on in parallel. One is this great expectation of
Speaker 16: what could happen and what would be the result, and
Speaker 16: the other is trying to actually deliver on those promises,
Speaker 16: and the two don't really sync up.
Speaker 1: Look, it's fascinating.
Speaker 2: We're in this debate all over again. Graham Lloyd, thank
Speaker 2: you very much for joining me.
Speaker 1: Let's turn to the US.
Speaker 2: Now, where the Federal Reserve left the cash rate unchanged
Speaker 2: between five point two five percent and five point five percent,
Speaker 2: and now the forecasts are in the US that there'll
Speaker 2: be only one rate cut this year. Judo Banks chief
Speaker 2: Economic advisor Warren Hogan joins me.
Speaker 1: Now, Warren, look, the US is.
Speaker 2: Still forecasting one rate cut, while it doesn't look like
Speaker 2: we're going to have any interest rate cuts until next
Speaker 2: year a and Zed is saying it won't be until
Speaker 2: February next year. In fact, we might even have a
Speaker 2: rate rise in Australia this year. So how do you
Speaker 2: see our inflation picture compared with what's happening in the
Speaker 2: US and why is there a different trajectory?
Speaker 12: Yeah, Hi, Sherry, it's unfortunately our inflation story is diverging
Speaker 12: from what we're seeing overseas, and it's not good. We're
Speaker 12: seeing a pick up in our inflation this year, and
Speaker 12: it's for two reasons. One is, our interest rates never
Speaker 12: went up as much as other countries. The US, as
Speaker 12: you said, is up around five and a half. We're
Speaker 12: under four and a half. But most importantly, we have
Speaker 12: no productivity growth in this economy. The US is experiencing
Speaker 12: productivity growth similar to its long term trend, but here
Speaker 12: we're seeing nothing in the Q one numbers we got
Speaker 12: last week and today's employment numbers, which was great. We
Speaker 12: got jobs, but the hours worked aren't moving. And of
Speaker 12: course we know growth isn't moving much in the economy.
Speaker 12: That's telling us there's no productivity. So that's the real
Speaker 12: difference here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you mentioned that unemployment data. Let's go to that.
Speaker 2: So it confirmed that forty thousand more people secured work
Speaker 2: in May. There's now the number of jobless is now
Speaker 2: down to four percent. I mean it was virtually unchanged.
Speaker 2: It does mean around six hundred thousand Australians are unemployed.
Speaker 2: Let's have a look at what the Treasurer Jim Chalmers
Speaker 2: had to say about the slowing of our economy.
Speaker 10: The jobs market's been a real source of strength in
Speaker 10: our economy. You know, we're in an economy which has
Speaker 10: been otherwise soft and when people are under pressure, it
Speaker 10: has been a source of strength that the Albin Easy
Speaker 10: Labor government's seen the creation of eight hundred and twenty
Speaker 10: thousand jobs, which is a record for a first term
Speaker 10: government of any political persuasion. And we've had faster jobs
Speaker 10: growth than any major advanced economy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, Warren, I mean, the job's picture is fine,
Speaker 2: but our economy is all but at a standstill. The
Speaker 2: growth rate in the March quarter just zero point one percent.
Speaker 13: Yeah.
Speaker 12: Well, I mean I think if we had some productivity
Speaker 12: with that job's growth, the economy would be growing at
Speaker 12: a much stronger pace. But the reality is and I'm
Speaker 12: really not sure why the government really wants to keep
Speaker 12: talking down the economy. We can't grow because we're operating
Speaker 12: at capacity. We those six hundred thousand unemployed Astraians, you know,
Speaker 12: that's actually a very low figure. That's the same figure
Speaker 12: as we had twenty years ago, and we had nine
Speaker 12: hundred thousand in the early nineties recession. So we're at capacity.
Speaker 12: We can't grow, and of course if we try and
Speaker 12: stimulate the economy then we're going to create more inflation.
Speaker 12: And of course without productivity, we're not going to get
Speaker 12: real wages moving either. So we're really in a very
Speaker 12: uncomfortable position. And I think what's going to end up
Speaker 12: think is that the RBA is going to have to
Speaker 12: raise rates further to deal with this inflation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it's a terrible thought. Just very quickly, Worren
Speaker 2: before you go.
Speaker 1: We quite rightly, we do.
Speaker 2: Focus our attention when it comes to inflation on the
Speaker 2: federal government. But we just saw the Queensland state government
Speaker 2: handout its budget this week with eleven billion dollars worth
Speaker 2: of cost of living handouts, all to try and win
Speaker 2: at the polls come October. The opposition stupidly said it
Speaker 2: was going to match that spending.
Speaker 1: I mean they're going to win.
Speaker 2: They don't need to give out eleven billion dollars in
Speaker 2: cost of living handouts which are inflationary. So do you
Speaker 2: think there needs to be more focus on state governments
Speaker 2: taking responsibility to drive down inflation as well, so that
Speaker 2: we don't all see rate rises.
Speaker 12: Yeah, well, I think you've nailed the point here is
Speaker 12: that the state governments don't wear the political approbrium for
Speaker 12: rate hikes. That's the federal governments bear all that problem.
Speaker 12: And of course one of the many bad legacies of
Speaker 12: COVID is the state government have learned how to throw
Speaker 12: money at households, which they never used to do, not
Speaker 12: to the extent we saw in Queensland anyway, soment, state
Speaker 12: goverments need to stick to the supply side of the economy.
Speaker 12: They need to get the infrastructure in place, education, hospitals.
Speaker 12: It's more critical than ever. And what they've said we
Speaker 12: seen in Queensland this week is a horrendous economic policy
Speaker 12: which is just all politics and it is inflationary and
Speaker 12: it not only adds to the pressure on the RBA,
Speaker 12: but it adds to the case for more than one
Speaker 12: rate hike and that's going to be devastating for the
Speaker 12: federal government.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, well said Warren Hogan, Thank you very
Speaker 2: much for your insights. Now after the break, the Prime
Speaker 2: Minister ways into the Holy Hughes Senate ticket drama, claiming
Speaker 2: Peter Darton could face a leadership challenge and so much
Speaker 2: for bringing in a new era of impartiality at the ABC.
Speaker 2: The new check him Williams has made some questionable comments
Speaker 2: on the coalition.
Speaker 1: That's upnext come back well.
Speaker 2: This week in New York, there was a tribute to
Speaker 2: the October seven Nova Festival music victims. These were innocent people,
Speaker 2: all young people, who were slaughtered in cold blood on
Speaker 2: October seven. Women were raped, bodies were mutilated. It's actually
Speaker 2: incomprehensible that anyone could disagree with a tribute to commemorate
Speaker 2: such tragic loss of life. Yet in New York there
Speaker 2: was a mob of anti Semitic protesters who rallied outside
Speaker 2: the tribute with flares and aggressively charged chance of long
Speaker 2: live the Interfada and Israel.
Speaker 1: Go to hell. Have a look.
Speaker 2: Outside a tribute to people who had died, who were
Speaker 2: killed in cold blood. Look that protest was part of
Speaker 2: an entire day of protest in New York and on
Speaker 2: the subway, protesters yelled, raise your hand. If you're a Zionist,
Speaker 2: this is your chance to get out.
Speaker 1: It's unbelievable.
Speaker 3: These are the Prosist.
Speaker 14: Chance to get out.
Speaker 2: New York Mayor Eric Adams gave a strong speech and
Speaker 2: described all of this as pure anti Semitism.
Speaker 4: It was disgusting what we saw, and you cannot call
Speaker 4: for peace while you're celebrating what happened on October seventh.
Speaker 2: Now, these protests are not pro Palestinian. It is simply
Speaker 2: racism against Jews. It's a chilling celebration of terrorism, with
Speaker 2: some of the protesters carrying Hamas or Hesbela flags. The
Speaker 2: Wall Street Editorial Board pointed out that anti Israel protesters
Speaker 2: wouldn't even let a tribute to Israeli's murdered at the
Speaker 2: Nova Music Festival be held in peace. The editorial said,
Speaker 2: President Biden's waffling on the moral justification of Israel's war
Speaker 2: to destroy Hermas has emboldened the pro Hamas left in
Speaker 2: the US. And this is exactly what we've seen with
Speaker 2: the Albanesi government here in Australia.
Speaker 1: This is what I've been talking about.
Speaker 2: When political leaders criticize Israel more than the terrorists that
Speaker 2: Israel is fighting, despite evidence clearly showing that Israel goes
Speaker 2: above and beyond to abide by international law.
Speaker 1: That is what the evidence shows.
Speaker 2: Well, when the Albanezi government does that, when Joe Biden
Speaker 2: does it, it gives a green light to extremists and
Speaker 2: anti Semites.
Speaker 1: And this is part of.
Speaker 2: The reason we're seeing extremism, the rise of anti Semitism
Speaker 2: globally because of weak political leadership. Well, let's bring in
Speaker 2: our founding editor of Quillette, Claire Lehman, and Sky News
Speaker 2: commentator Jason Morrison.
Speaker 1: Welcome to you both.
Speaker 2: Claire, what do you think of this arta moral I mean,
Speaker 2: it's not even moral confusion. It's people who have lost
Speaker 2: all morals when they can't let a tribute to people
Speaker 2: who've been murdered just go in peace.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 13: It was a real mask off moment, wasn't it. Shari
Speaker 13: And I think it's true these people are vicious, absolutely
Speaker 13: vicious anti Semites, but they're more than that. They're anti Western,
Speaker 13: the anti civilization. And I think we should frame this
Speaker 13: problem not just in terms of racism and anti Semitism.
Speaker 13: But these people want to destroy everything we hold dear.
Speaker 13: They want to destroy democracy. They want to destroy not
Speaker 13: just Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East, but
Speaker 13: they would like to see all the liberal democracy is destroyed.
Speaker 13: They have Marxist sympathies. They are you know, their news
Speaker 13: organizations are sympathetic to Iran, they're sympathetic to Russia. They're
Speaker 13: sympathetic to dictators and autocrats.
Speaker 1: So we have to name.
Speaker 13: These vicious mobsters as anti civilization, not just anti Semitic.
Speaker 1: I think it's a.
Speaker 2: Really good point because we do often speak about this
Speaker 2: as as mainly a problem affecting the Jewish community. But
Speaker 2: you're completely right, Claire.
Speaker 1: It affects all of us.
Speaker 2: It affects all of us, and it also seeks to
Speaker 2: destroy the very values that underpin our society, the very
Speaker 2: values that Australian soldiers sacrificed their lives fighting for in
Speaker 2: our previous wars.
Speaker 1: Jason, Yeah, I see it.
Speaker 17: I think these people have a disorder, and most of
Speaker 17: them are lemmings. They don't think about issues. They follow
Speaker 17: the pack and they follow some real bent individuals, and
Speaker 17: their hatreds are so ill defined. They just seemed to
Speaker 17: just hate. And if they weren't at this one about
Speaker 17: the Jews, they'd be at something else about another group
Speaker 17: of people or another minority. And of course, the irony
Speaker 17: of the we'll call it the ideological far left, is
Speaker 17: they kind of think they're better than everyone else. They're rats,
Speaker 17: and they behave like rats, and they should be treated
Speaker 17: like them. And I'm kind of amazed that we have
Speaker 17: this tolerance for this crap, I really am.
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 2: I think the political leadership does have an unacceptable tolerance
Speaker 2: for this, and I think if it were any other community,
Speaker 2: Anthony Albanezi wouldn't put up with it, but he somehow
Speaker 2: is condoning it.
Speaker 1: And you know why because he was once a.
Speaker 2: Pro Palestinian protester himself at a rally where American and
Speaker 2: Israeli flags were burned. And I've shown you those clips
Speaker 2: and I'm going to keep reporting on that now. On
Speaker 2: Monday night, Liberal Senator Holly Hughes came on this show
Speaker 2: and she blamed the shadow treasurer Angus Taylor for the
Speaker 2: fact that she lost a winnable position on the Senate ticket.
Speaker 2: Just a reminder, here's what she had to say.
Speaker 1: Believe, well, he's.
Speaker 18: Gone against Dutton here Peter Dutton had given a reference
Speaker 18: to Andrew Bragg and myself that he wanted to keep
Speaker 18: his shadow ministerial team together and I think, you know,
Speaker 18: really Dennis Shanahan probably summed it up in The Australian
Speaker 18: Best earlier when he said that Angus Taylor has to
Speaker 18: get serious about detail and present a more mature alternative
Speaker 18: in Parliament. And I don't think anyone could say it
Speaker 18: better than Dennis there.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that.
Speaker 18: He's spending more time on factional politics in New South Wales.
Speaker 18: I think that perhaps his portfolio.
Speaker 2: So this has become a big story this week. Peter
Speaker 2: Dutton spoke about it today with Ray Hadley.
Speaker 15: Sometimes sitting members or sitting senators lose their pre selections
Speaker 15: and it's tough because Holly's done a great job. She's
Speaker 15: got a lot to offer and you know she's understandably
Speaker 15: upset about losing her position, but that's the democratic process.
Speaker 1: She says.
Speaker 7: He's lining himself up for a till you if things
Speaker 7: don't go according to plan at the next federal election.
Speaker 17: Are you confident that you heavy support?
Speaker 15: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And then even the Prime Minister weighed in and
Speaker 2: he claimed that Yep, Peter Dutton might face a leadership
Speaker 2: challenge for Angus Taylor, even though Albin Easy wouldn't know
Speaker 2: anything about that.
Speaker 1: Have a look.
Speaker 8: Polly Hughes has called this out as being about Angus
Speaker 8: Taylor trying to secure the numbers for a future Liberal
Speaker 8: leadership bid. She's been very explicit about it.
Speaker 2: All right, Claire, Look, the fact remains, you know, fine,
Speaker 2: it's a democratic preselection process. But the fact remains that
Speaker 2: the Shadow Treasurer Angus Taylor, did support someone who's not
Speaker 2: in the Parliament over one of his own colleagues, his
Speaker 2: own colleagues in shadow cabinet, and that is a very
Speaker 2: divisive thing to do for the coalition when it's trying
Speaker 2: to present a unified frant ahead of the next election.
Speaker 13: That's true, and the Liberal Party obviously needs more women.
Speaker 13: I know that the replacement to Holly Hughes is all
Speaker 13: a woman, but you would think there would be there
Speaker 13: would be some kind of capacity to make sure that
Speaker 13: they could parachute her into another seat that is potentially
Speaker 13: not occupied by a woman.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 13: The Liberal Party factionalism is a bit opaque for me,
Speaker 13: so I can't comment any further.
Speaker 15: On it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, it was. It was definitely a messy. Look, Jason,
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about these comments from the
Speaker 2: ABC chair Kim Williams. I mean, he launched an attack
Speaker 2: on Peter Dutton's nuclear policy. This is at a panel
Speaker 2: a vivid and Criike's reported that he actually said the
Speaker 2: policy was Do we have the quote there he said
Speaker 2: he criticized the coalition policy. He said it was absent
Speaker 2: any of the normal fabric of policy formulation. That does
Speaker 2: sound like something Kim Williams would in fact say exactly.
Speaker 2: But Jason, the point is Kim Williams strongly criticized the
Speaker 2: ABC in the past for a lack of impartiality.
Speaker 1: He said he was going to fix this.
Speaker 2: But then look he's now the chair and he thinks
Speaker 2: the rules don't apply to him.
Speaker 17: That's right, folks, we got another activist, and we got
Speaker 17: another bloke who actually thinks that the world is interested
Speaker 17: in his view about this. When he took on the job,
Speaker 17: and he took on this position that he from day
Speaker 17: one very cleverly said, you know, we've got to show
Speaker 17: impartiality practice what you preach, mate. I actually think that,
Speaker 17: you know, for all the criticism, and there was plenty
Speaker 17: of Ida Buttrow's and her shortcomings in the job. Ita
Speaker 17: didn't mouth off about political issues. She looked after the
Speaker 17: causes that mattered to her, you know, health issues, aging issues,
Speaker 17: things like that. But she didn't get into politics because
Speaker 17: she knows this is the ABC chairmanship that's up there.
Speaker 17: He doesn't get that yet because he's still being surrounded
Speaker 17: by the lovees who are making him feel warm and
Speaker 17: special and he's back in the club again after having
Speaker 17: been out of it for a long time, and suddenly
Speaker 17: he thinks he matters.
Speaker 2: He also thinks he's an expert on everything, Claire, even
Speaker 2: nuclear policy.
Speaker 13: Yes, and he was complaining that the opposition went following
Speaker 13: the normal policy process, putting out green papers and so on,
Speaker 13: which is only what you ever do when you're in government.
Speaker 1: You don't do that in opposition.
Speaker 13: So you know he's schooling people when he doesn't know
Speaker 13: the facts himself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's it done? The Whitlam way, Claire Lee and
Speaker 1: Jason Morrison. Great to see you.
Speaker 2: Thanks Now after the break, Hamas is doing everything it
Speaker 2: can to ruin a ceasefire deal after evidence emerged this week.
Speaker 2: It's military leader wants its own civilians to die.
Speaker 1: I'll discuss this after the break.
Speaker 7: Well.
Speaker 2: The US Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln has warned Hermas
Speaker 2: that suffering will continue because they chose not to accept
Speaker 2: the latest ceasefire peace deal.
Speaker 5: Amus could have answered with a single word yes. Instead
Speaker 5: a mass waited nearly two weeks and then proposed more
Speaker 5: changes the war that Hamas started on October seventh with
Speaker 5: its barbaric attack on Israel and on Israeli civilians.
Speaker 11: We'll go on.
Speaker 2: Joining me now, the Australia Israel and Jewish Affairs Council
Speaker 2: Executive director Colin Rubinstein. Colin, what in particular did Hamas
Speaker 2: reject about this latest ceasefire proposal, Because they've rejected every
Speaker 2: single one now.
Speaker 1: For months now.
Speaker 11: Well, good to see you, Saric Sherry. They've made it
Speaker 11: clear that they've imposed conditions that tagged them out to
Speaker 11: a rejection of the deal, the Secretary of State Lincoln
Speaker 11: has pointed out unequivocally. And Israel, on the other hand,
Speaker 11: has accepted this three phase deal that the Americans crafted.
Speaker 11: They clearly want Israel well to pull out of Gaza
Speaker 11: completely and to stop now the war. And it's clear
Speaker 11: that Sinoar, the Hamas leader, thinks he's on a winner
Speaker 11: in terms of the more bloodshed that's inflicted on his
Speaker 11: fellow guards, and the better it is for his strategy
Speaker 11: in wearing Israel down.
Speaker 1: So he even admitted that.
Speaker 11: I should understand by now, yeah.
Speaker 2: Sorry to interrupt, Colin, but he even admitted that this
Speaker 2: week we saw reporting in the Wall Street Journal that,
Speaker 2: as you just said, Sinoa described Palestinian civilian deaths as
Speaker 2: necessary sacrifices. I mean, do you think this is something
Speaker 2: that the international bodies like the UN just don't understand
Speaker 2: that this is Hamasa's strategy for their own people to suffer.
Speaker 11: They either don't understand or they're so blinded by their
Speaker 11: hostility to Israel that they.
Speaker 1: Look the other way.
Speaker 11: Because Kamas is clearly a genocidal death cult, it's a
Speaker 11: terrorist organization, is to dictatorship, and frankly, the gardens need
Speaker 11: to be liberated. They need to be liberated from hamas As.
Speaker 11: I'm sure many Gazans feel this very day, and many
Speaker 11: people in the Arab world, many of the interlocutors in Egypt, Cata, Arabia,
Speaker 11: Jordan and beyond understand and the Abraham Accords are holding
Speaker 11: firm because the Arab world, much of the Muslim world,
Speaker 11: understands that Hamas is the problem. It's a genocidal entity,
Speaker 11: it's backed by Iran, that's a threat to all of them,
Speaker 11: and they do understand that Israel has an absolute right
Speaker 11: to self defense and that Hamas has to be dismantled
Speaker 11: in the same way that the Nazis had to be
Speaker 11: dismantled at the end of World War Two, and that
Speaker 11: the Germans had to be need Nazified in a similar fashion.
Speaker 11: The Palestinians in Gaza. They need to be the hamasified
Speaker 11: and an opportunity created for Palestinians who might be prepared
Speaker 11: to live alongside Israel than peace to pursue that option,
Speaker 11: to the benefit of both the Palestinians and obviously to Israel,
Speaker 11: which is tied up with fights against its very existence,
Speaker 11: not only of course from Hamas, but from its Baka
Speaker 11: Iran and obviously from Hezbollah in the North as well.
Speaker 2: Colin I want to get to this independent report to
Speaker 2: the United Nations Human Rights Council. It has accused Israel,
Speaker 2: alongside Hamas of a string of war crimes and human
Speaker 2: rights abuses, including torture, extermination, starvation, and even gender persecution.
Speaker 1: What's your response to this UN report.
Speaker 11: Well, it's predictable. This UN body, like so many other
Speaker 11: UN bodies, have as a track record of anti Israel
Speaker 11: hostility that's very extreme. So their position is completely divorce
Speaker 11: us from reality. They don't understand the difference between a
Speaker 11: democratic country pursuing its self defense in the most humane way.
Speaker 11: Experts like John Spencer point out that it Israel has
Speaker 11: done more to prevent civilian casualties than any other military
Speaker 11: and history in situations of urban warfare like this. On
Speaker 11: the other hand, Hamas as guilty of double war crimes.
Speaker 11: It's deliberately trying to kill as many Israelities as possible.
Speaker 11: It has through the years. It clearly has on October seven,
Speaker 11: that was a genocidal act. It's continuing to fire rockets
Speaker 11: and at the same time, it's deliberately putting its own
Speaker 11: people at risk.
Speaker 7: It's a warp crime.
Speaker 11: On its own gardens and it's use of human shields.
Speaker 11: We all know that, and that's what we're seeing happening now.
Speaker 11: It's time for the international community and the UN bodies
Speaker 11: to wake up the reality and put pressure on Hamas.
Speaker 1: Indeed, it is so out of time. Very much for
Speaker 1: joining me.
Speaker 2: I'll see you everyone at home back Monday at eight pm.
Speaker 2: And here is James Morrow filling in for Paul Murray
Speaker 3: M