WEBVTT - Sharri | 13 June 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.760 Sho good evening. 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:11.480 Well, there's one story in my career as a journalist 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:15.880 that's never left me. I interviewed the parents of a 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.680 young girl called Brianna Devrees, who was bullied on social 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:24.079 media so badly that one day she went upstairs to 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:28.600 her bedroom and never came back down. She was just 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:32.319 fourteen years old and had her whole life ahead of her. 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:34.600 Brianna had been. 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.440 Bullied at will Google High near Coffs Harbor in New 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:42.120 South Wales. Her parents didn't just change schools to help her, 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:47.360 but even moved into state. Yet through social media, she 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:52.160 couldn't escape the brutal bullying and it was too much 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:57.280 for her at such a young age. It's beyond devastating 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:00.520 and I think back to her and her parents often. 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.000 The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare figures show that 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:07.920 there's been a two hundred and seventy five percent increase 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:12.759 in the rates of self harm and hospitalization of girls 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:16.639 just aged ten to fourteen years old from two thousand 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:20.839 and eight to twenty twenty one, and social media use 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:25.720 has been linked to bullying, mental health conditions including anxiety 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:30.880 and depression, body image issues, poor physical health, and lack 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:34.440 of sleep, and then there are also concerns around predators 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:39.520 and pedophiles, not to mention the age inappropriate content that's 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:40.960 easily accessible. 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:43.640 Well, this is why Peter. 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:47.919 Dutton made an important announcement today. He said he'd lift 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:52.960 the minimum age of social media access from thirteen to sixty. 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:57.840 Under his proposed laws, there'd be an age verification system 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:02.520 and heavy penalties for social media companies that don't comply. 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:08.600 Dartan says children are particularly vulnerable and deserve to be protected. 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:13.359 We've seen some tragic consequences as a result of that 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:16.640 online environment having a negative impact on the minds of young, 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:19.680 impressionable Australians and it's true around the world as well. 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:25.640 The Shadow Communications Minister David Coleman spoke about how social 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:30.160 media and all of the problems particularly impacts on young girls. 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.640 The data that we're seeing in relation to the mental 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:39.400 health of Australian kids is really disturbing, especially relating to girls. 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:42.840 If you look at things like the self harm rates 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:47.000 of self harm hospitalizations of girls. Over the last decade, 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:51.560 we've seen dramatic increases in that and there's no question 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:55.240 in my mind that social media is playing a significant 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:57.600 part in that look. 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:01.799 This issue isn't covered boldly enough mainstream media and on 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:05.240 our nighttime talk shows, but it is a big issue. 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.440 And in the United States, health experts say that social 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:12.280 media is the defining public health issue of our time. 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:15.679 Social media is an important driver of that youth mental 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:16.359 health crisis. 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:20.239 This is the defining public health issue of our time. 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:22.960 Surch In general things Congress can and should do more 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.760 to regulate social media companies the same way safety standards 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.560 are in place for car seats, for example. Well, Peter 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:35.280 Dutton's push for new laws mirrors what others are doing internationally. 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:38.960 Florida Governor Ron de Santa's passed the law just in 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:44.160 March banning children under fourteen from having social media accounts. 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:49.000 You can have a kid in the house safe, seemingly, 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.480 and then you have predators that can get right in 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:56.000 there into your own home. You could be doing everything right, 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.440 but they know how to get and manipulate these different. 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:05.000 Platforms, and other United States states are looking at similar laws. 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.720 So the tech giants will have to develop or introduce 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:13.520 reform and the tech urgently. But David Coleman says the 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:18.359 tech's already there yet. Social media companies aren't enforcing the 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:19.919 age limits that they set. 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:24.360 At the moment, there is no scenario whether social media 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.960 companies will do the right thing, and so we're going 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:30.320 to force them to. It's the right thing to do 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.279 and we hope that the government will get behind this. 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:38.040 The companies will be required to comply with the new 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:40.800 law and that will include penalties if they don't. 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:44.839 Well yet to hear exactly what those penalties are, but 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:47.720 the Coalition says they will be. 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.080 Strong and serious. 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:49.720 Now. 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:53.120 Just this week in Australia, Meta has rolled out age 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:57.520 verification for those who change their age online from fifteen 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.640 to eighteen, so there's reason to be leave that they 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:03.320 aren't the age that they say they're that they say 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:07.320 they are. It's very hard for any individual parent to 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.479 pull their kids off social media or tell their young 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:14.040 teens that they can't sign up to Snapchat or Instagram 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:18.000 when all their friends already on these platforms and others. 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:19.640 But if it's the. 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:23.640 Law, it takes the decision out of parents' hands and 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.960 it means that at least until they're sixteen, social media 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:31.400 won't be the dominant aspect of their lives. Now, with 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:35.960 Dutton surging ahead, in the polls and the coalition preparing 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.839 for a possible early election. They're now starting to release 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:44.599 their policies now. Dutton pledges he'd introduce the social media 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:48.400 ban for under sixteens within one hundred days if he 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:53.160 wins government. Now, this is a positive and family friendly. 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.039 Policy that will appeal to parents who. 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.680 Are concerned about how social media will impact or does 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:03.400 impac ACKed on the life of their children. Well, Peter 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.359 Dutton today offered to work on this policy in a 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.560 bipartisan fashion with the Albanesi government. 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:14.000 I don't understand what the government's hesitation is at the moment, 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.520 but this is one of those issues where we can 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.880 try and help protect kids online, try and help families 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.440 and parents have the tools that they need to help 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.039 protect their children. But it's one of those issues that 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:28.280 really should be approached on a bipartisan basis and we'd 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:30.520 be really happy to work with the Prime Minister and 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.120 the government to see the outcome here and send a 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:37.159 very clear message that both sides of Parliament stand united 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:41.599 against the scourge of social media and its influences on 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:42.760 young minds. 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:44.000 Well. 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.240 The Prime Minister was asked about all of this at 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:49.320 a press conference and he couldn't argue with the policy today, 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.839 he did appear frustrated that Peter Dutton was getting credit 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:56.760 for it. Albanese claimed they were already working on a trial, 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:02.599 although Labor did shut down legislation November, coalition legislation that 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:05.680 included minimum age requirements for social media. 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.760 I think very clearly, and the reason why we're doing 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:13.760 the trial is that social media is having a negative 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:18.040 impact on young people. I want people to spend more 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.760 time on the footy field or the netball court than 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:25.400 they're spending on their fonts, very clearly, and a band, 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:28.640 if it can be effective, is a good way to go. 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:32.360 Well, let's hope they do progress with this on a 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:37.440 bipartisan basis because it is important. It will be impossible 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.960 to pull teenagers off social media who are already on it, 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:44.480 so there's going to have to be a transition period 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.400 for how these laws are introduced, and it could be 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.559 starting with all year seven or year eight students from 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:51.840 twenty twenty six. 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:52.960 Now. 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:57.400 Critics say this will be difficult to enforce, but concern 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.440 about compliance is hardly a reason not to take action. 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:06.080 And thinking back to Brianna and others like her who 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:09.880 are struggling thanks to the pervasive nature of social media 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:14.640 in our lives. Will governments can't afford not to take action. 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:18.280 Now? 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.400 Also coming up on the show tonight, as the Prime 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.920 Minister fails to call out the thuggish behavior of the 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.760 CFMEU will tell you the full list of labor ministers 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:32.880 who had union paymasters before entering politics. Also tonight, the 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:36.960 ABC chair launches a scathing attack on Peter Dutton's policies, 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:41.920 So much for his new era of impartiality. Quilette's Claire 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.440 Lehman will join me later in the show to discuss 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:49.400 and Hermas yet again destroys another ceasefired deal. 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:51.120 Anthony Blinkin is. 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:55.720 Clearly frustrated what will it take for the terror group 0:08:56.040 --> 0:09:01.120 to release innocent hostages? But first, now bring in tonight's panel, 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.959 Perth Mayre, Basil Zemplus and the finn Reviews senior correspondent 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:06.280 Aaron Patrick. 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:08.679 Welcome to you both. Now. 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:12.840 Both of you are fathers, Basil and Aaron, and I'm 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:16.080 a mum of two young children. I'm dreading the day 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.600 personally that they discover social media and want to go 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:23.160 online on social media apps if it wasn't an option 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.000 for them until they were sixteen. You don't think that 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:28.320 they'd be missing out on anything, and in fact, you 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:32.319 think they'd be happier, healthier, spend more time with their 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.080 actual friends and outdoors. 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:36.720 Basil, do you think this is. 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.960 A good idea of Peter Dutton's today to ban social 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:41.760 media for those under the age of sixteen? 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:45.640 Of course I do. I feel very strongly about this. 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:48.160 I'm right in that wheelhouse a thirteen year old daughter 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:50.360 and eleven year old daughter. The six year old son 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:53.080 is still some while away, and thank goodness for that. 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:56.280 But yes, it is one of the great cancers in 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:00.600 and on our society of the modern day, and anything 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:04.120 we can do to take young people away, not so 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:08.120 much from online, but in particular the apps, that's where 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:10.840 the real danger is the apps is something that should 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:14.880 be reported. Two things I'd say. Firstly, why Anthony Albanezi 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:16.840 doesn't just come out and say I agree with it. 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:19.400 It's a great idea, and we already know Peter Malinowskis 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.719 has bang gone about this some time ago, so bipartisan 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:25.680 is the best way to go here. But secondly, I 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:28.280 just asked you to consider this when people say we 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:30.040 won't be able to do it. The kids will find 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:33.040 a way around it. They're too smart for us. Consider this, 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:37.280 how much harder has it become to log onto your 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:43.319 internet banking to make payments online? How much double verification 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:46.160 has suddenly come into vogue where you need a code 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:48.520 word that goes to your phone that then you insert there. 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.280 It can be done, and the apps is where it 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:54.880 should start. If we keep them off the apps, we 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:58.319 can make their adolescent years that much better. This is 0:10:58.360 --> 0:10:59.120 a great idea. 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:00.520 We should all in it. 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.680 Yeah, I agree, and I find that argument are and 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.959 frustrating when people say, I know, you know, kids will 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:09.480 find a way around this. Well, you've got to start 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.240 with the law. And it's just like anything you know 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.600 that's against the law for those under the age of eighteen, 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.760 whether it's drinking, whether it's driving, whatever it is. 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:20.560 Of course some kids break the law. 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:22.760 That doesn't mean you don't have the law for the 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:24.040 minority that will break it. 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:29.400 No, No, you're absolutely right, and there's a clear health 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.840 issue that we're trying to deal with here. I would 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:37.960 just temper though what we're saying by pointing out that 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:43.200 we are talking about an issue which is going to 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:45.600 affect millions of families. 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:47.160 Today. 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:50.440 Some children get on social media as young as ten. 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:56.840 It's going to be I think quite It's one thing 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.040 to give a press comments. It's nothing to tell a 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.840 lot of Australian fans families that their children can't do 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:07.200 what they think they've got entitlement to do. And perhaps 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:09.320 we should, Perhaps we wish to be more focusing on 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:13.360 the algorithms that detect giants use to display the kind 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:15.360 of content that can be really disturbing an age and 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:19.480 appropriate I would just suggest that's probably a better place 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:20.000 to start. 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.640 It's not just the age and appropriate content though, it's 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:28.040 you know, for girls, there's a whole lot of body 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:32.360 image anxiety, mental health issues wrapped up in trying to 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.240 think compare themselves to the ideal that they see on 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:39.839 Instagram by the likes of I don't know, celebrities and 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:44.560 the Kardashians, who themselves spend tens of thousands, probably millions 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.120 of dollars trying to change the way they look. You know, 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:50.280 all of that is unhealthy for ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.240 year old girls to have to look at on a 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:55.719 daily basis, not to mention the bullying basil. 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:59.719 And I think that the apps. In my experience is 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:03.560 a that the apps is where this real danger kicks around. 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.760 The images and the commentary and the peer group pressure 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:10.880 can all marry up in the one space, and it's 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.679 the apps, the social media apps in particular, that we 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.640 should try and keep the kids off. Another idea is 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.280 what if kids had to pay for them, So they 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.000 need a credit card or they need a form of 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:23.880 payment to be able to pay for them. They've got 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.679 to pay their for their Netflix and the like. If 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.680 you haven't got payment details, you can't get on. It's 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.720 not too difficult to do if we turn our minds 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:37.000 to it. And it's that important, it really is. It's 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:37.840 that important. 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:39.960 No, I agree, I agree, And you only have to 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:43.440 look at the stories, you know, people like Brianna look 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.439 at the figures to know that this really is affecting 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:50.480 young people. It's our obligation as a society to protect 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.480 young people. But Aaron, don't you think with any big change, 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.200 there's going to be a transition period for about five 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.199 or so years where this is difficult, but then eventually 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:01.480 the law will be in place across the country that 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.640 you know, you can't have social media apps until you're sixteen. 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.480 If that's what the government settles on or fifteen whatever 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.560 they settle on, and ultimately people will know it's just 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.640 this transition period of getting all the companies on board, 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:14.920 getting families on board. 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:16.080 That's a bit tricky. 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:19.000 Look perhaps, but I think it's also worth bearing in 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.760 mind that not all social media is bad bad for children. 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.880 My good daughter is sixteen and she uses something called Pinterest, 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:30.080 which is basically about design, and she loves it and 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.800 it's a pretty safe space, and I think I don't 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.760 think there's anything wrong with children using that, So I 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:38.520 think just. 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.600 As interest is Pinterest to find as social media, though 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:43.120 I'm not sure that is social media. 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.560 Probably beyond my capabilities to my understanding here, but you 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:47.480 understand the point I'm going. 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.280 No. I like Pinterest as well, very helpful from time 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:51.720 to time. Now. 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:54.880 Peter Dutton has also today hit at it what he 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:59.160 calls thagish behavior of the unions and he's calling on 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.760 the Prime Minister to condemn CFM EU bus John Secca 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.160 after he declared war on the AFL. 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:05.760 Have a look. 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.280 The unions serve a useful role, but not when there 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:15.360 are standover merchant to tactics and bullying tactics to try 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:18.720 and get outcomes a lot of the hues around. 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:21.400 Version in the NFL giving it's approgerate for the unions, 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.400 the seat you can involved in Kati and the deppointment 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:25.640 of CEOs and the high level officients. 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:28.520 No, so sorry, it's back to unions and John Sector. 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:30.840 Do you believe that he should give up on his 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:32.240 campaign against the AFL. 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:36.520 Yes, it's not very just common sense. 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:41.320 It comes as the Australian reports today are Jeff Chambers. 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:44.880 The full number of ministers who worked for the unions 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:49.480 before entering politics, and it's extensive. It includes Richard Miles, Pennywong, 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:54.160 Tony Burke, Katie Gallagher, Don Farrell, Amanda Rishworth, Ed hughes At, 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:58.480 Chris Bowen, Mark Butler, Bill Shorton and Brandon O'Connor and 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.840 Jeff Chambers. Also reports of the those holding union memberships 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:08.000 include Jim Chalmers, Tanya Plibasset, Catherine King, Linda Bernie Murray Watt, 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:12.560 Claire O'Neill, Bazil. With a less like this, you wonder 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.040 you know it's not surprising that the Prime Minister isn't 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.320 coming out in a more forciful fashion. 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:20.880 Well forceful is the word is in first thing, we 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.560 acknowledge that not all members of unions and not all 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:27.240 union officials are thugs and stand up for merchants, as 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:31.960 per the behavior that we are seeing reported, But yes 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:34.240 we would have I mean, how many times does the 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:37.000 Prime Minister and other ministers for that matter, weighed in 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:38.920 on issues that really have got nothing to do with them, 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:42.000 but they're happy to give you their chapter and verse 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:44.400 opinion on it because it suits them. Now, yes, he 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.280 did say the two right word answers, but he could 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:52.640 have been far stronger. This behavior demanded a far stronger 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:55.680 response from the Prime Minister, and I thought that was 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.040 pretty weak from the PM. He needed to make a 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.800 stand on that, and he has hasn't done that. So 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:03.080 you asked the question, Well, he hasn't made a really 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.159 strong stand on that, so you asked the question why not? 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:09.280 Yeah, Aaron, you could see he really didn't want to 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:11.919 be brought into that debate that Anthony Albanezi. 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:14.840 He so did not want to be answered. He still 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:16.960 did not want to answer that question. It was the 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.879 least for both I've ever seen him. The amazing thing 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:22.320 this country is is union membership is down to about 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:26.000 ten percent, but they still has incredible political power and 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:29.560 what's happening on the construction sites it's just well it's criminal, 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.240 you know. The judges, the courts have found it to 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:36.280 be criminal. And I think that the Labor guvernment's decision 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:42.919 to abolish the independent Commission that policed industry relations on 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:46.360 construction sites was one of the worst decisions they've ever made. 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.480 Well and not to mention what's going on with virgin as. 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:53.000 Well, well, that's right, you know, I think when you 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:56.600 have the problem is we've got a country where unions 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:00.760 have become so influential in the boardrooms for the control 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:04.720 of superannuation funds that they're getting. 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.399 To the point where they feel they can dictate to 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:10.480 management of companies. And that's probably something that is going 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:13.880 to become more accentuated in the future and it could 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:17.040 have a huge impact on how business operates in Australia. 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:21.160 Yeah, and already the IRA reform introduced by Tony Burke 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.280 and the Albanezi government is going to make such a 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:28.040 big difference in terms of how bosses and employees react 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.560 with each other, you know, not being able to contact 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.159 people out of office hours, it's going to change a 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:33.680 lot of things. 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:34.760 For how business operates. 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:37.520 Now, Boso, I want to ask you about the cost 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:40.679 of living, because we saw today an extraordinary story that 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:45.199 Perth has officially become one of the hardest cities in 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.480 the world, in the developed world to find a rental 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:51.440 home where seeing that Perth's a rental vacancy rate is 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:56.040 sitting at zero point four percent, much tighter than similarly 0:18:56.080 --> 0:19:01.880 populated cities Berlin, Toronto and Auckland. You know, there's even 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:06.720 we're even hearing that some Perth councils are contemplating raising rates, 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:10.600 some of even up to eight percent due to inflation 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:14.119 driving up the cost of services like waste disposal. You know, 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:16.800 why is it so difficult in Perth in particular? 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:17.639 Do you think. 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.920 A massive housing crisis? Part of it brought on by 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.640 the current government and they offered incentives to the building 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.200 community and those who were purchasing houses and unfortunately the 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:33.560 demand that was created and those incentives caused an oversupply 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.439 and unfortunately just not able to get things done. But 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:41.880 also the social and affordable housing the stock has not 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.520 been added to by the Labor government. They've only in 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:48.000 seven years, they've only added one hundred and fourteen social 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:52.280 dwellings to the overall stock of the state government and 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:56.200 thirty five thousand people are on the public housing wait list. 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:01.520 Unfortunately for the people of Western Australia, despite incredible economic 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:06.800 prosperity being felt and enjoyed by the state, largely largely 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:10.480 through the resources boom and a much improved GST deal, 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.639 there are many people who that does not relate to 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.679 and they have never done it tougher and many people 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.560 have gone backwards under this labor government here in Wa. 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:22.919 Yeah, cost of living crisis affecting many families, but it 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:25.359 was a shock to see just how bad the rental 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.479 crisis is in pers Oranges. Before you go, you've written 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:30.960 a piece in the Finn Review where you talk about 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.320 some of the policies that Peter Dutton has come out with, 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:39.320 whether it's on climate change or the economy, and just 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:44.200 how he's pitching slightly more conservative policies. Do you think 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:47.840 this is a deliberate strategy to try win over some 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:51.240 of the labor marginal seats in outer suburban areas. 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:55.119 Sherry, I think Peter Darton has decided he's going to 0:20:55.160 --> 0:21:00.160 be Tony Abbott without God and the royal family. He's 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:04.080 decided the way to win power is through a conservative 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:08.760 populist agenda and one of the central strategies is going 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:11.600 to use as a war on climate. And I think 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:15.920 he's decided in the short term he probably can't win 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.679 what the so called teal seals teal seats back in 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:24.600 the inner cities, so he's going for regional and regional 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:28.439 Australia and out of suburbs in the first instance. I 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:32.080 think his plan is to knock Albanezy back to a 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:36.400 minority government and they'll only take three seats. Then we'll 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:40.080 have three years where he will just nail the government 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:44.720 week after week through the cross bench. And I think 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.719 he's looked at how Tony Abbott was such an effective 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:52.400 opposition leader with Peter Krelin's Jeevas staff between twenty ten 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:57.480 and twenty thirteen and finally they they won government twenty thirteen, 0:21:57.920 --> 0:21:59.960 and I believe that's his approach. 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.800 It's fascinating because there's been a lot of debate about 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:06.159 how the Coalition manages its policies. 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:08.320 Does it try appeal to the teals. 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:11.119 And the out of suburban But what we're potentially starting 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:13.200 to see with Peter Dutton, what you say we are 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:16.119 seeing with him, is that he's saying we're not going 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:18.520 to worry about the Teals, We're just going to pitch 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:23.359 to mainstream Australia. But with well, you've caught it populist conservative. 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:25.680 I think I think it's fair. I think it's a 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:29.120 little bit trump like a little bit. He says that 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:31.320 he hasn't given up the Teal seats. I don't really 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:35.520 believe him. And if you speak to liberals in some 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:40.200 of those seats, they're very very careful how they express it. 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:45.760 But let's just say I've heard of polling which shows 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:49.680 that Peter Dutton is as popular in some of those 0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:53.160 seats as Scott Morrison was, which is to say not. 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:54.480