1
00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,080
Speaker 1: Welcome to Ask Fear and Greed, where we answer questions

2
00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:10,080
Speaker 1: about business, investing, economics, politics and more. I'm Michael Thompson

3
00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:11,520
Speaker 1: and hello Sean Aylmer.

4
00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:13,240
Speaker 2: Hello Michael, Sean.

5
00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,840
Speaker 1: Today's question combines a number of those areas and it

6
00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,800
Speaker 1: really comes out of the argie bargie that we had

7
00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:24,680
Speaker 1: in Canbury yesterday. Is there any merit in the current

8
00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:29,920
Speaker 1: debate around admissions and climate change and Barnaby Joyce's Private

9
00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:35,760
Speaker 1: Member's Bill, because really, climate change has been a political

10
00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,680
Speaker 1: issue in this country for so long and it just

11
00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,000
Speaker 1: seems to keep coming back.

12
00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,000
Speaker 2: So I agree you would think, haven't we had the debate,

13
00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,160
Speaker 2: Let's move on. We've got a government with a huge

14
00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,440
Speaker 2: majority in the House of Reps, right, But I think

15
00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,120
Speaker 2: this is a really good debate to have. Take a

16
00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,600
Speaker 2: step back. Australia, like many other countries, have agreed to

17
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,000
Speaker 2: the Paras Agreement with twenty sixteen. Basically, the idea is

18
00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:08,080
Speaker 2: holding the increase in global average temperatures to one and

19
00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:13,400
Speaker 2: a half to two degrees celsius of warming, not going

20
00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,959
Speaker 2: beyond that. That's what Paris Agreement is about. The Earth

21
00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,840
Speaker 2: is warming, but let's actually put a limit on how

22
00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,840
Speaker 2: much it does warm. The government has what it calls

23
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,360
Speaker 2: a net Zero Plan. It's supposed to guide the transition

24
00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,800
Speaker 2: to net zero greenhouse gas emissions by twenty fifty, so

25
00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:31,480
Speaker 2: we need to do that to be in line with

26
00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,560
Speaker 2: the Paris Agreement. That plan covers all parts of the economy,

27
00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:40,479
Speaker 2: sets out priorities and measures to drive down emissions, et cetera.

28
00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:47,880
Speaker 2: The government also has shorter term targets, so it's by

29
00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,200
Speaker 2: twenty thirty it wants to be forty three percent below

30
00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,000
Speaker 2: two thousand and five levels. It's creating a twenty thirty

31
00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,960
Speaker 2: five target at the moment that's due out in September.

32
00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,760
Speaker 2: So this is all in the background to what's going on.

33
00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,760
Speaker 2: That's a big part of the reason for the timing

34
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:12,560
Speaker 2: of the current debate. What everyone has to remember, it's

35
00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,040
Speaker 2: really hard to achieve these goals, really really hard. It's

36
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,320
Speaker 2: not just about building a wind farm or a solar

37
00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,440
Speaker 2: farm or a hydro farm. It's actually about building the

38
00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,360
Speaker 2: grid to get the energy from warp. Warp it's the

39
00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,920
Speaker 2: official term to households and businesses, and that's not just

40
00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,880
Speaker 2: about putting up power poles. It's about working with the

41
00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,280
Speaker 2: owners of the land where the power sources are. It's

42
00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:36,880
Speaker 2: about working with communities where these grids are going to

43
00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,160
Speaker 2: pass through. It's about diverting money away from hospitals and

44
00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:41,880
Speaker 2: schools so we can build out the grid.

45
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:47,720
Speaker 1: So is this then the necessity of this debate about

46
00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,600
Speaker 1: perhaps being more realistic about the targets.

47
00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,120
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes yes. So you know, if you

48
00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,680
Speaker 2: work in an aluminium plan as waste operator, in a

49
00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,399
Speaker 2: plastics company, you know, an iron steel cement maker, in agriculture,

50
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,800
Speaker 2: which is Marnaby Joyce's particular interest. The government saying you

51
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:11,240
Speaker 2: reduce your emissions, that's well and good, but these are livelihoods.

52
00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,240
Speaker 2: These are peoples you know, in the communities. They live

53
00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,360
Speaker 2: off some of these industries. Much of the infrastructure also,

54
00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,760
Speaker 2: much of the infrastructure we're talking about just isn't economical,

55
00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,400
Speaker 2: Like private sector isn't going to do it. What you've

56
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,720
Speaker 2: already seen, right, is the government shifting on this. So

57
00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,799
Speaker 2: remember gas in the last two months, gas is now

58
00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,080
Speaker 2: called the transition energy. It's not the big nasty that

59
00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,200
Speaker 2: we were calling it three or four or five years ago,

60
00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,480
Speaker 2: or if Labor was calling it three or four or

61
00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,680
Speaker 2: five years ago. It's actually not too far a stretch

62
00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,600
Speaker 2: to say, the government might water down its missions targets,

63
00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:50,200
Speaker 2: not because we shouldn't do it, but because it's too

64
00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:51,040
Speaker 2: hard to do it.

65
00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,320
Speaker 1: So how did we get into this position in the

66
00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,400
Speaker 1: first place? Then, because these targets have already been legislated,

67
00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,960
Speaker 1: did the ideology get ahead of the practicality of this? Perhaps?

68
00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,560
Speaker 1: And is it now that the ideology behind it is

69
00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,520
Speaker 1: mellowing a little bit as we see just how hard

70
00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,280
Speaker 1: the transition actually is going to be.

71
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's probably a bit unkind because I

72
00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,479
Speaker 2: think many people knew how hard it would be. But

73
00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,640
Speaker 2: setting a target, you know, if you're a salesperson, you're

74
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,440
Speaker 2: getting a sales target. Generally they might not be stretch targets,

75
00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:26,960
Speaker 2: but they're not far off stretch targets. Now, I think

76
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,240
Speaker 2: for the government, these are stretch targets, but they have

77
00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,760
Speaker 2: legislated them, so they have to do it. So that

78
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,200
Speaker 2: forty three percent below two thousand and five levels by

79
00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,720
Speaker 2: twenty thirty the governor has come out, and so we're

80
00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,440
Speaker 2: at we're likely to get to forty two point seven percent,

81
00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:47,040
Speaker 2: so actually miss that only just. But those targets are

82
00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:51,120
Speaker 2: really hard to get, and I think that realization has

83
00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,880
Speaker 2: only come about in the past couple of years.

84
00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,120
Speaker 1: Okay, but there was there was still a necessity to

85
00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,000
Speaker 1: provide these targets as well, because we talk so often

86
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,760
Speaker 1: about the importance of certainty for business, wasn't it, And

87
00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,800
Speaker 1: this was part of that to give certainty toward to

88
00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,040
Speaker 1: everyone that there was at least some target set, even

89
00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:11,600
Speaker 1: though it was going to be very difficult to get

90
00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:12,960
Speaker 1: to it totally.

91
00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,159
Speaker 2: And I'm not against the targets. I think the targets

92
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,159
Speaker 2: are a good thing. We need to reduce emissions. Climate

93
00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:23,800
Speaker 2: change is real, it's just we've always talked about how

94
00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,280
Speaker 2: we do it. There's a lot of collateral damage in this,

95
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,560
Speaker 2: and so Barna bit Joy is saying, hey, let's drop

96
00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,640
Speaker 2: those targets. That might be a sort of a kind

97
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,919
Speaker 2: of a view on one side of the spectrum, but

98
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,880
Speaker 2: it's a fair view. There's a really good reason to

99
00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,720
Speaker 2: have that view. And so that's why I think this

100
00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:40,920
Speaker 2: debate is a good thing.

101
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:46,919
Speaker 1: Okay, This is probably not what Susan Lee needs though,

102
00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:52,320
Speaker 1: necessarily when she is trying to get the coalition reunited

103
00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,080
Speaker 1: and try and find some kind of policy platform that

104
00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,400
Speaker 1: is going to start to appeal to the people that

105
00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,760
Speaker 1: have been lost particularly to the teals. This is going

106
00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:04,039
Speaker 1: to make that hard, right.

107
00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. And I mean I think people that vote

108
00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,520
Speaker 2: for the tilS broadly believe in climate change and the

109
00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,080
Speaker 2: mission's reductions. You would think, I mean, I think a

110
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,719
Speaker 2: lot of disenfranchised conservatives was about some of these big issues.

111
00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so God is a big one.

112
00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:22,119
Speaker 2: It is a big one.

113
00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, A good topic though to be discussing. Thank you, Sean,

114
00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,000
Speaker 1: Thank you, Michael. And if there's anything that you would

115
00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,800
Speaker 1: like us to delve into, could be along these lines,

116
00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,320
Speaker 1: could be something else altogether, then send it on through

117
00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,800
Speaker 1: via the website Fearangreed dot com today you or jump

118
00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:37,760
Speaker 1: onto any of the social media platforms. We've had a

119
00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,040
Speaker 1: couple of good ones come in lately, Sean. We've got

120
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,240
Speaker 1: to get to in the next few days. Yes, let's

121
00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,040
Speaker 1: just really kind of broad topics and that's what we love,

122
00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,080
Speaker 1: so keep them coming. I'm Michael Thompson and this starts

123
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:49,680
Speaker 1: Fear and Great