1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,689 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,690 --> 00:00:09,330 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. One of the biggest challenges facing Australia in the 3 00:00:09,330 --> 00:00:13,500 Sean Aylmer: near future is our transition to greener energy. Having committed 4 00:00:13,500 --> 00:00:19,020 Sean Aylmer: to net zero emissions by 2050 and a 43% reduction by 2030, business 5 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,530 Sean Aylmer: now knows the environment in which it's operating. But what 6 00:00:22,530 --> 00:00:24,960 Sean Aylmer: happens now? How do we actually transition and how do 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:29,250 Sean Aylmer: Australian companies manage the process? Liam Connolly leads the energy 8 00:00:29,250 --> 00:00:32,400 Sean Aylmer: transition practice at Bain. Liam, welcome to Fear and Greed. 9 00:00:32,729 --> 00:00:33,810 Liam Connolly: Thanks for having me, Sean. 10 00:00:34,470 --> 00:00:38,190 Sean Aylmer: Let's take it to the very basics. And we talk 11 00:00:38,190 --> 00:00:40,680 Sean Aylmer: so much about this, but tell us why are we 12 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:42,479 Sean Aylmer: doing this? What's the prize here? 13 00:00:43,409 --> 00:00:46,409 Liam Connolly: Well, if we think back over the last 150 years 14 00:00:46,409 --> 00:00:50,310 Liam Connolly: and we look at all of the economic development and 15 00:00:50,490 --> 00:00:53,100 Liam Connolly: improvements in our quality of life, a lot of that 16 00:00:53,100 --> 00:00:57,060 Liam Connolly: is underpinned by having access to a reliable energy source. 17 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,770 Liam Connolly: Now, the challenge with our reliable energy source, historically, has 18 00:01:01,770 --> 00:01:05,310 Liam Connolly: been that it's primarily fossil fuel based. And that presents 19 00:01:05,310 --> 00:01:08,310 Liam Connolly: a number of challenges for the environment, in particular, greenhouse 20 00:01:08,310 --> 00:01:11,640 Liam Connolly: gases, as I'm sure most people are familiar with. And 21 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,580 Liam Connolly: that's led us to the challenge that we're in today, 22 00:01:14,580 --> 00:01:17,250 Liam Connolly: in which the globe is warming at a rate that 23 00:01:17,250 --> 00:01:20,490 Liam Connolly: is beyond what we deem as acceptable, and now we 24 00:01:20,490 --> 00:01:24,390 Liam Connolly: need to maintain a stable energy source, but move away 25 00:01:24,390 --> 00:01:27,839 Liam Connolly: from fossil fuels to greener energy. And so that presents sort 26 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:29,190 Liam Connolly: of a number of challenges. 27 00:01:30,930 --> 00:01:35,550 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So in this 43% reduction by 2030 that the Albanese government has introduced, net 28 00:01:35,550 --> 00:01:38,880 Sean Aylmer: zero by 2050, how important is it that business actually 29 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,940 Sean Aylmer: has a number to pin its strategy to? 30 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,080 Liam Connolly: I think it's very important because it provides a signpost 31 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,590 Liam Connolly: and a signal to the business community around the direction 32 00:01:49,590 --> 00:01:53,310 Liam Connolly: of travel for the country. It enables them to understand 33 00:01:53,700 --> 00:01:56,850 Liam Connolly: what is the government's stance and potential future policy to 34 00:01:56,850 --> 00:02:01,140 Liam Connolly: support the energy transition, and give comfort to businesses that 35 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,410 Liam Connolly: they now need to think through their own targets and 36 00:02:04,410 --> 00:02:09,060 Liam Connolly: how those reductions impact their specific businesses and the circumstances 37 00:02:09,060 --> 00:02:09,870 Liam Connolly: they're operating in. 38 00:02:10,830 --> 00:02:14,490 Sean Aylmer: Okay. We're hearing lots about something called the safeguard mechanism 39 00:02:14,669 --> 00:02:17,190 Sean Aylmer: which the government is pushing. I believe actually, it was 40 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:22,500 Sean Aylmer: originally introduced under Abbott, perhaps, the Coalition government. The current 41 00:02:22,500 --> 00:02:25,500 Sean Aylmer: government are pushing it though the opposition's not so fussed on it. 42 00:02:25,500 --> 00:02:26,730 Sean Aylmer: Can you just explain it to me? 43 00:02:27,210 --> 00:02:30,210 Liam Connolly: Certainly. The safeguard mechanism, and I'll add the caveat, it's 44 00:02:30,210 --> 00:02:33,389 Liam Connolly: still actively being discussed by legislators and so it's not 45 00:02:33,389 --> 00:02:38,790 Liam Connolly: yet finalised, but in its current form, it's effectively mandating 46 00:02:38,850 --> 00:02:45,630 Liam Connolly: around 215 of Australia's largest emitters to reduce their emissions, year- on- year, 47 00:02:45,900 --> 00:02:50,130 Liam Connolly: to 2030. It equates to approximately 5% reduction that's going 48 00:02:50,130 --> 00:02:52,320 Liam Connolly: to be a required year- on- year. And for any 49 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,940 Liam Connolly: facility that doesn't meet the in- year reduction, the current 50 00:02:56,940 --> 00:03:01,139 Liam Connolly: proposal is a penalty of $ 275 per ton of excess 51 00:03:01,139 --> 00:03:05,100 Liam Connolly: emissions for a given year. And so what it effectively 52 00:03:05,100 --> 00:03:09,540 Liam Connolly: does is outline a path to the reduction to 2030 53 00:03:09,990 --> 00:03:13,200 Liam Connolly: and also the trajectory of that path, given that there 54 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,870 Liam Connolly: needs to be an annual decrease. And the other thing 55 00:03:15,870 --> 00:03:20,520 Liam Connolly: that they're looking at is thinking about how they think 56 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,960 Liam Connolly: about industry benchmarks so that they can have an approach 57 00:03:24,990 --> 00:03:28,649 Liam Connolly: around those in- year reductions that are based on the 58 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,770 Liam Connolly: average of the industry versus just the average of a 59 00:03:31,770 --> 00:03:32,609 Liam Connolly: single facility. 60 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,060 Sean Aylmer: I know BlueScope Steel came out the other day and 61 00:03:36,060 --> 00:03:39,930 Sean Aylmer: talked about the need for certainty around the safeguard mechanism. 62 00:03:39,930 --> 00:03:43,290 Sean Aylmer: Steel, of course, is a big carbon emitter. It's kind 63 00:03:43,290 --> 00:03:45,930 Sean Aylmer: of the same question I asked two questions ago. How 64 00:03:45,930 --> 00:03:48,330 Sean Aylmer: important is it for business that we actually get this 65 00:03:48,330 --> 00:03:51,960 Sean Aylmer: safeguard mechanism certainty, whatever the final outcome? 66 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,130 Liam Connolly: I think it is important to have clarity and certainty, 67 00:03:56,430 --> 00:04:00,330 Liam Connolly: wherever the safeguard mechanism does land. It's required because what 68 00:04:00,330 --> 00:04:04,260 Liam Connolly: we're seeing is different businesses have different challenges to decarbonise 69 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,500 Liam Connolly: their business, and they have a number of choices around that. 70 00:04:07,950 --> 00:04:11,220 Liam Connolly: One of which being is, do we go down and 71 00:04:11,220 --> 00:04:16,589 Liam Connolly: invest in new technology to reduce our carbon emissions, or 72 00:04:16,589 --> 00:04:18,599 Liam Connolly: do we look at using offsets, or what is the 73 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,589 Liam Connolly: right balance between those two? And right now there's a 74 00:04:22,589 --> 00:04:25,590 Liam Connolly: proposal with the safeguard mechanism that provides guidance to that. 75 00:04:25,860 --> 00:04:28,020 Liam Connolly: But I think until there is certainty as to what 76 00:04:28,020 --> 00:04:30,990 Liam Connolly: that looks like, there's still going to be some sort 77 00:04:30,990 --> 00:04:34,169 Liam Connolly: of uncertainty for business around what is the right way 78 00:04:34,170 --> 00:04:36,299 Liam Connolly: for them to proceed as they look to decarbonise their 79 00:04:36,300 --> 00:04:37,200 Liam Connolly: own businesses. 80 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:39,750 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Liam. We'll be back in a minute. 81 00:04:46,380 --> 00:04:48,630 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Liam Connolly, who leads the 82 00:04:48,630 --> 00:04:53,550 Sean Aylmer: energy transition practice at Bain. Okay. How worried are you about energy 83 00:04:53,550 --> 00:04:56,940 Sean Aylmer: reliability? I know that in recent days, once again, I 84 00:04:56,940 --> 00:04:59,159 Sean Aylmer: think it was the Australian Energy Market Operator came out 85 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,430 Sean Aylmer: and said, by the end of this decade, we're looking 86 00:05:02,430 --> 00:05:05,669 Sean Aylmer: at shortages as coal- fired power stations are turned off. 87 00:05:06,300 --> 00:05:09,390 Sean Aylmer: Is this something that you think we will solve or 88 00:05:09,390 --> 00:05:12,660 Sean Aylmer: is it a real issue? And obviously this affects households, 89 00:05:12,660 --> 00:05:13,980 Sean Aylmer: but particularly businesses. 90 00:05:14,460 --> 00:05:16,500 Liam Connolly: It is. And I think it'll be an ongoing challenge 91 00:05:16,500 --> 00:05:20,190 Liam Connolly: because part of this transition, if we think about our 92 00:05:20,190 --> 00:05:23,310 Liam Connolly: current energy mix in Australia today, it's predominantly gas and 93 00:05:23,310 --> 00:05:27,599 Liam Connolly: coal. Now, part of the transition actually requires sort of 94 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,760 Liam Connolly: moving away from those, particularly coal, to more renewable sources 95 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,419 Liam Connolly: of energy. So thinking about solar and wind. But that 96 00:05:36,420 --> 00:05:40,409 Liam Connolly: also provides more complexity in how do we manage our 97 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,489 Liam Connolly: energy system? Because as you know, at nighttime, we don't 98 00:05:44,490 --> 00:05:46,500 Liam Connolly: have the sun and therefore we don't have the energy 99 00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:50,820 Liam Connolly: from solar, and wind has its intermittency challenges as well. 100 00:05:51,420 --> 00:05:53,729 Liam Connolly: Therefore, one of the things that we need to navigate 101 00:05:53,730 --> 00:05:57,270 Liam Connolly: through the transition is how do we maintain access to 102 00:05:57,270 --> 00:06:02,460 Liam Connolly: stable and affordable energy, but also at the same time 103 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:07,320 Liam Connolly: transition to a more diverse energy baseline that includes a lot 104 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:08,160 Liam Connolly: more renewables. 105 00:06:08,610 --> 00:06:11,820 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Liam Connolly from Bain, how do we do it? 106 00:06:12,390 --> 00:06:15,180 Liam Connolly: Well, the good news is that, for example, the safeguard 107 00:06:15,180 --> 00:06:19,560 Liam Connolly: mechanism starts to provide guidance and clarity around the direction 108 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,600 Liam Connolly: of travel that we're heading to from an energy transition. 109 00:06:22,230 --> 00:06:24,870 Liam Connolly: We've also seen businesses have set a lot of targets, 110 00:06:24,900 --> 00:06:27,029 Liam Connolly: and you'll see a number of businesses have come out 111 00:06:27,029 --> 00:06:31,320 Liam Connolly: and set targets particularly aimed at the 2030 and 2050 112 00:06:31,710 --> 00:06:36,930 Liam Connolly: horizons. Now, what's actually required is acting and delivering on 113 00:06:36,930 --> 00:06:40,260 Liam Connolly: those targets. And so that requires a number of things. 114 00:06:40,650 --> 00:06:43,980 Liam Connolly: I think we still need to have greater clarity from 115 00:06:44,100 --> 00:06:48,599 Liam Connolly: government and the regulatory bodies around what will the likely 116 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,950 Liam Connolly: outcome look like for policy such as the safeguard mechanism. 117 00:06:53,460 --> 00:06:55,830 Liam Connolly: And I think what we need to see from businesses 118 00:06:55,830 --> 00:07:00,810 Liam Connolly: is putting aside the investments, and investing in both the 119 00:07:00,810 --> 00:07:05,340 Liam Connolly: technology, but also the capabilities required to transition their industries 120 00:07:05,670 --> 00:07:08,970 Liam Connolly: as well. And that might require more or it will 121 00:07:08,970 --> 00:07:12,090 Liam Connolly: require more work, I think, from both government and business. 122 00:07:12,330 --> 00:07:15,930 Liam Connolly: And look, we are seeing examples internationally where policy is 123 00:07:15,930 --> 00:07:18,390 Liam Connolly: coming into play with the US, and the Inflation Reduction 124 00:07:18,390 --> 00:07:21,570 Liam Connolly: Act as one example, which is stimulating investment in the 125 00:07:21,570 --> 00:07:23,700 Liam Connolly: space. And I think we're going to need to see 126 00:07:23,700 --> 00:07:28,170 Liam Connolly: more of those types of policy measures to help us 127 00:07:28,170 --> 00:07:31,140 Liam Connolly: achieve the goals for 2030 and 2050. 128 00:07:32,130 --> 00:07:36,480 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So the Inflation Reduction Act is a bit of... well, the name doesn't 129 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,650 Sean Aylmer: necessarily reflect the impact. It's providing subsidies in that for 130 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,620 Sean Aylmer: alternate fuels and that sort of thing. That's a big 131 00:07:43,620 --> 00:07:47,040 Sean Aylmer: chunk of it. What I'm wondering is what about businesses? 132 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,460 Sean Aylmer: We got this with AGL last year, BHP in the last couple 133 00:07:50,460 --> 00:07:53,100 Sean Aylmer: of days have said they're going to sell a couple 134 00:07:53,100 --> 00:07:57,450 Sean Aylmer: of their coal mines. How responsible should the business be 135 00:07:58,230 --> 00:08:03,420 Sean Aylmer: for making the transition of those assets vis- a- vis 136 00:08:03,750 --> 00:08:06,119 Sean Aylmer: selling them? So I mean, last year BHP sold a 137 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,420 Sean Aylmer: couple of coal mines to Stanmore Coal, which obviously Stanmore 138 00:08:09,420 --> 00:08:12,660 Sean Aylmer: Coal's business is coal. But if I'm Mike Cannon- Brookes, 139 00:08:12,660 --> 00:08:15,240 Sean Aylmer: I'm going to say, " Well, actually you should be responsible 140 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,030 Sean Aylmer: for making that cleaner rather than selling it. You might 141 00:08:18,030 --> 00:08:21,600 Sean Aylmer: look better yourself, but that doesn't actually solve the problem." 142 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,070 Sean Aylmer: And I don't want to get into a discussion about 143 00:08:23,070 --> 00:08:25,830 Sean Aylmer: BHP necessarily, but you get the gist of what I'm saying. 144 00:08:25,890 --> 00:08:28,680 Liam Connolly: I do. I do. And I think that's the challenge. 145 00:08:28,770 --> 00:08:33,479 Liam Connolly: I think to really move towards net zero, it requires 146 00:08:34,020 --> 00:08:38,280 Liam Connolly: those typical operations kind of no longer operating at a 147 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,730 Liam Connolly: certain point in time. I think the challenge is, when 148 00:08:41,850 --> 00:08:45,689 Liam Connolly: are we able to do that while still maintaining our 149 00:08:45,690 --> 00:08:49,830 Liam Connolly: energy security and energy supply? Something which, as we've seen 150 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,150 Liam Connolly: with the war with Russia and Ukraine, has been sort 151 00:08:54,150 --> 00:08:57,059 Liam Connolly: of brought into the spotlight around energy security and energy 152 00:08:57,059 --> 00:09:03,300 Liam Connolly: supply. Now, I think what we're seeing from corporate organizations 153 00:09:03,300 --> 00:09:07,800 Liam Connolly: is different pathways. Some are looking to sell off more 154 00:09:07,830 --> 00:09:12,929 Liam Connolly: heavy carbon intensive assets. The private sector is also starting 155 00:09:12,929 --> 00:09:15,210 Liam Connolly: to play a role in some of those assets with 156 00:09:15,210 --> 00:09:19,320 Liam Connolly: a view to decarbonize, and as you say, with Mike Cannon- 157 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,929 Liam Connolly: Brookes. And I think we've seen some examples of where 158 00:09:21,929 --> 00:09:24,989 Liam Connolly: he has said that around looking to decarbonize some of 159 00:09:24,990 --> 00:09:28,770 Liam Connolly: these assets. I think the challenge is a number of 160 00:09:28,770 --> 00:09:32,100 Liam Connolly: different things need to happen in parallel, both the underlying 161 00:09:32,100 --> 00:09:35,910 Liam Connolly: investment in new energy sources coming online at the scale 162 00:09:35,910 --> 00:09:39,059 Liam Connolly: that we need them, and putting in place the right 163 00:09:39,059 --> 00:09:44,190 Liam Connolly: closure plans and timelines around the heavier carbon emitting assets 164 00:09:44,610 --> 00:09:46,920 Liam Connolly: and finding that right balance. And I think that's something 165 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:51,090 Liam Connolly: which is still being worked through as a nation locally, 166 00:09:51,090 --> 00:09:53,040 Liam Connolly: but also is what we're seeing internationally as well. 167 00:09:53,730 --> 00:09:55,410 Sean Aylmer: It's easy to talk about this, but if I'm a 168 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:00,179 Sean Aylmer: coal miner in Queensland and we start closing coal mines 169 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,229 Sean Aylmer: in Queensland, and suddenly you've got a whole community there, 170 00:10:04,230 --> 00:10:10,200 Sean Aylmer: which is funded by the coal mine, surely we have 171 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,130 Sean Aylmer: some sort of responsibility to help those people transition? And 172 00:10:14,130 --> 00:10:16,770 Sean Aylmer: that is just one of many, many examples across the country. 173 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,670 Liam Connolly: That's right. And the term that's typically used for that 174 00:10:20,670 --> 00:10:23,790 Liam Connolly: is the just transition. How do we ensure a just 175 00:10:23,790 --> 00:10:28,140 Liam Connolly: transition for all given the fact that some industries that 176 00:10:28,140 --> 00:10:32,130 Liam Connolly: exist today aren't going to exist in the same shape 177 00:10:32,130 --> 00:10:36,179 Liam Connolly: or form tomorrow? And what that requires, I think is 178 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:41,220 Liam Connolly: the right plans and engagement with these communities around, well, 179 00:10:41,220 --> 00:10:43,890 Liam Connolly: firstly, what are the timelines that we see this transition 180 00:10:43,890 --> 00:10:46,679 Liam Connolly: happening? But then secondly, how do we think about the 181 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:51,059 Liam Connolly: opportunities that the transition presents as well? So one of 182 00:10:51,059 --> 00:10:53,340 Liam Connolly: the benefits of the transition is it's a once in 183 00:10:53,340 --> 00:10:56,069 Liam Connolly: a lifetime infrastructure build- out, and so that's going to 184 00:10:56,070 --> 00:11:00,719 Liam Connolly: require significant jobs and capabilities. And one of the things 185 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,630 Liam Connolly: that we need to think through and how we balance 186 00:11:03,630 --> 00:11:06,540 Liam Connolly: it is, how do we ensure a just transition for 187 00:11:06,540 --> 00:11:10,439 Liam Connolly: those that are in more fossil fuel based sectors to 188 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:14,490 Liam Connolly: think about the jobs and the opportunities that the energy 189 00:11:14,490 --> 00:11:15,600 Liam Connolly: transition presents? 190 00:11:16,470 --> 00:11:19,679 Sean Aylmer: As a former print journalist, I know this transit, the 191 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,190 Sean Aylmer: just transition argument, and it has been going on for 192 00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:25,860 Sean Aylmer: a long time, hasn't it, as society changes? 193 00:11:26,670 --> 00:11:29,219 Liam Connolly: It has. It has. And look, I think it's something 194 00:11:29,220 --> 00:11:33,360 Liam Connolly: which will continue. This is probably one of the most 195 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,390 Liam Connolly: fundamental shifts that we're going to go through as a 196 00:11:36,390 --> 00:11:39,480 Liam Connolly: society, and I think that brings a lot of complexity 197 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:44,370 Liam Connolly: and challenge around living costs, employment skills, technologies. And so 198 00:11:44,370 --> 00:11:47,640 Liam Connolly: that's something where I think there is still sort of 199 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,590 Liam Connolly: a bit of uncertainty as to how that will play 200 00:11:49,590 --> 00:11:52,230 Liam Connolly: out, and that's also what is part of the challenge 201 00:11:52,230 --> 00:11:55,170 Liam Connolly: around, well, we can't just turn off a coal mine tomorrow, 202 00:11:55,170 --> 00:11:59,160 Liam Connolly: because that has significant implications both on the communities in 203 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,520 Liam Connolly: which it operates, the value of our exports, and also 204 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,850 Liam Connolly: the security of our power supply locally. 205 00:12:06,690 --> 00:12:10,200 Sean Aylmer: A final question, Liam, how do you think Australian businesses 206 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:11,970 Sean Aylmer: are going in this transition? 207 00:12:13,260 --> 00:12:15,929 Liam Connolly: It varies a little bit by sector. Obviously, some are 208 00:12:15,929 --> 00:12:19,080 Liam Connolly: harder to abate than others. We actually did a survey 209 00:12:19,140 --> 00:12:23,460 Liam Connolly: of CEOs last year, and around 90% of them felt that 210 00:12:23,460 --> 00:12:28,439 Liam Connolly: Australia was trailing behind other developed nations in sustainability. And 211 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,490 Liam Connolly: a large part of sustainability was energy transition and our 212 00:12:32,490 --> 00:12:36,270 Liam Connolly: carbon footprint. I think Australian business has done well at 213 00:12:36,450 --> 00:12:39,689 Liam Connolly: announcing targets. I think the challenge now is the rubber 214 00:12:39,690 --> 00:12:42,030 Liam Connolly: is hitting the road to deliver on those, and the 215 00:12:42,030 --> 00:12:46,350 Liam Connolly: safeguard mechanism now is effectively the stick that has been 216 00:12:46,350 --> 00:12:49,470 Liam Connolly: put in place to ensure that there is consistent year- on- 217 00:12:49,470 --> 00:12:51,900 Liam Connolly: year reductions. And so I think that's good. I think 218 00:12:51,900 --> 00:12:55,439 Liam Connolly: that's important because that provides certainty for business to now 219 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,569 Liam Connolly: think about, okay, now we have a view of how 220 00:12:57,570 --> 00:13:00,510 Liam Connolly: much we need to invest to achieve these goals. And 221 00:13:00,510 --> 00:13:05,369 Liam Connolly: it means the reduction happens on an annual basis versus 222 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,300 Liam Connolly: waiting until 2030 to see how we're tracking versus that target. 223 00:13:09,870 --> 00:13:11,699 Sean Aylmer: Liam, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 224 00:13:12,510 --> 00:13:13,320 Liam Connolly: Thank you for having me. 225 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,309 Sean Aylmer: That was Liam Connolly who leads the energy transition practice 226 00:13:17,309 --> 00:13:20,190 Sean Aylmer: at Bain. This is the Fear and Greed daily interview. 227 00:13:20,190 --> 00:13:22,260 Sean Aylmer: Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear 228 00:13:22,260 --> 00:13:25,589 Sean Aylmer: and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. 229 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:26,339 Sean Aylmer: Enjoy your day.