WEBVTT - Sharri | 29 May 0:00:01.560 --> 0:00:05.559 Live on Sky News. This is Sharry. 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:11.360 Good Evening Tonight our exclusive on how Susan Lee ghosted 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:14.480 Jane Hume for days in the lead up to her 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:18.119 ruthless dumping. I'll tell you about their phone call just 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:20.280 ninety minutes before the press conference. 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:21.880 More details in a minute. 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:24.960 Paul Keating is set to launch a campaign against Jim 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:29.160 Chalmers taxon unrealized capital gains. Robert gott Liebsen has that 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:33.680 scoop and he'll join meet tonight. Israeli President Isaac Hertzog 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:37.760 implause Alban easy to actually visit Israel and see for 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.640 himself what's going on. Chris Kenny met with Herzog today 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:43.440 and he'll be on the show live. 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:44.560 Plus. 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.960 Matt Canavan kickstarts his campaign against Net zero. 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:50.120 He'll be here to explain why. 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:54.240 But first tonight I can reveal that Liberal leader Susan 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:59.040 Lee ghosted Jane Hume for days, ignoring her texts and 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:03.040 phone calls, before finally telling her she'd been dumped just 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:07.880 ninety minutes before announcing her shadow cabinet Sauces close to 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:11.520 Senator Hume told me that multiple texts and phone calls 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:14.000 to Susan Lee went unanswered. 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:18.320 This for several days while Lee was formulating her front 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:18.920 bench team. 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:23.000 Susan then finally rang Jane Hume and told her there 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:25.920 was no role for her. This was an hour and 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.559 a half before she fronted the press. The source told 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:34.240 me it was completely ruthless. We've gone from people talking 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.959 about Susan facing a glass cliff to now watching her 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:41.360 pull up the ladder behind her to ensure no woman 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:45.640 can follow in her footsteps. Either Susan thinks a woman's 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:49.560 place isn't in the cabinet, or she doesn't like dealing 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:56.160 with strong women. Pretty cutting comments there now, Jane Hume 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.160 isn't the only senior coalition figure who was given the 0:01:59.200 --> 0:01:59.920 cold shoulder. 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.480 Susan Lee also did not respond. 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:06.560 To an approach from Senator Claire Chandler, who sent a 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:10.200 text message saying that she'd like to continue serving in 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:12.480 a senior position in the shadow cabinet. 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:14.040 There was no reply. 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.720 Today, Susan Lee doubled down on her decision to dump 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:23.200 or demote four of the most senior coalition women, and 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.000 when asked about this today, she said she was promoting 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:31.680 women who were younger in terms of political experience. Have 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:33.399 a look at that strange remark. 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.120 Of course, Pete, I want to see more women, more 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:38.000 women come into our party, and I was able to 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:42.160 announce women who are younger in terms of their political career, 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:44.799 and I know that they're going to do very well too. 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.840 Younger in terms of their political career. Younger is a 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:51.680 word you only use in. 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:53.040 Relation to age. 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:55.760 So perhaps she was about to say that she was 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:59.400 promoting younger women and realized that wouldn't be a good look. 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:03.400 It would be be agist and would reinforce a sexist, 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:07.120 outdated view that women have no value to society if 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:11.200 they're too old. Now, Sarah Henderson is sixty one, Jane 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:15.000 Hume in her fifties declared Chandler is thirty seven, just 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:17.840 Enter Price forty four, and their. 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.160 Ages are irrelevant. 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.160 They are among the most high profile and high performing 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:29.080 coalition women. When Parliament returns, it'll be an embarrassing site 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:34.160 to see these talented women relegated to the backbench instead. 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:38.760 Susan Lee has leapfrogged the likes of Giselle Captirian, who 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.720 is only three votes ahead of Teal Nicolette Bowl in 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:45.280 the recount. She might not even get into parliament if 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:48.280 she does, she'll be on the front bench, but of 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:52.360 course she poses no threat to Susan Lee. This shadow 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:56.480 cabinet undoes the efforts to rebrown the Liberal Party as 0:03:56.600 --> 0:04:00.320 modern with a Liberal leader. And you couple this with 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:06.200 giving the overqualified Dave Sharma a junior assistant Ministry position 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:10.240 when he probably should have been in Foreign Affairs. As 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.680 Peter Kredlin said last night, it's like leaving your best 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:15.960 players in the change room. 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:19.120 I just don't think you take on an empowered and 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:22.880 dominant labor party by leaving some of your best talent 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:26.520 in the change room and giving the factional bobber boys 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:27.840 are reward. 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:29.560 And She's right. 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.280 While there are a few good appointments, this is at 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:37.039 best a meteorocre team. It's shocking to think that Susan 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:41.640 Lee's shadow cabinet now has fewer women than either Scott 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:45.719 Morrison's or Peter Dutton's had. Dutton had ten women in 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:49.599 his shadow cabinet and Morrison had eight, the same number 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.880 Lee now has, and only a third of Lee's shadow 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:56.919 cabinet are women. This is despite the fact she's often 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:00.359 publicly argued for years that we need more women in 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:04.080 Parliament and in senior positions. Take a look at some 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:05.440 of those comments. 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.360 I want to say right here and now, we need 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:10.760 more women in our party. We need more women in 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:12.960 our party organization, We need more women in. 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:13.640 This party room. 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.320 As I said quite some time ago, I do want 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.880 to see a fifty percent target for women. We need 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.760 a fifty percent target by twenty twenty five. That's my view. 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.039 And how we get there, of course, will vary where 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.800 you encourage young women to get into the party, where 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:32.000 you mentor them successfully, where you give them a platform 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:34.520 to talk about their ideas which might not be your ideas, 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:38.040 and you have a system that really strongly supports them. 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:43.000 So the woman who argued for a fifty percent target 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:47.560 now has only a third of her shadow cabinet being women. 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.920 This is a case of clear hypocrisy. Now that she's 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.320 in a position to elevate more women. Instead, she dumped 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.640 or demoted for and has presided over the lowest number 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.160 of women in cabinet or shaw cabinet for the Liberal 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:02.919 Party since twenty nineteen. 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:05.680 And by was she hammered on this today? 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:10.159 Yeah, let's look at your team. You demotioned senior women, 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:15.000 Hume Henderson Price, Why was that a good idea given that, 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:19.640 as you know, your party has problems with women. Let's 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:21.920 move to some of the decisions you've made on that 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.760 shadow cabinet for a party that's trying to rebrand itself 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:28.520 with Australian women, why so few women in the shadow cabinet. 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:32.680 Look, forty percent of my shadow ministry is made up 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:35.200 of women, and across that party were more broad as 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:36.360 many as under plays. 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.839 Not as many under the former leader cut So that 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:43.760 was on Channel seven and the ABC and she didn't 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:45.960 have a better time over on Channel nine. 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:49.120 You need to win back women as well, they said 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:51.400 Peter Dutton had a problem with female voters. But now 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:57.520 you've deliberately reduced the number of women in shadow cabinet. 0:06:58.040 --> 0:06:59.520 Of my shadow ministry are women. 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:01.400 Of course, I want to see more women in our 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:03.440 party room every single day and. 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:05.080 Reduced me as leader. 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:09.080 That does well, Carl, as a woman leader. 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:10.720 That sends a signal to women. 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.760 You champion for more women in parliament, you championed more 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.240 in cabinet, but at the first chance you promoted men 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:19.960 and dumped women. How is that anything other than personal? 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:23.880 That's commentary, Karl, and it's simply not. 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:24.560 How I see it. 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:26.720 As I said, Shadow Ministry. 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:28.400 It's great women. 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:32.080 He did a good job there. Karl Stefanovic. 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.960 Now Susan Leoso told Paul Murray last night that just 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:38.640 sent to Nampa, jimper Price was very happy with her 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:40.680 demotion to shadow Cabinet. 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.400 I spoke to her before this appointment, Paul. She's very 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:45.320 pleased to take it on. 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:47.320 Pleased. 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:49.880 I mean that's taking spin to the next level, because 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:54.680 three hours earlier, Ja told Peter Kredlin that actually she 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:58.440 was very disappointed and that the shadow cabinet team wasn't 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:00.960 appointed based on Marria at all. 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.360 I'll be honest to say that there are probably some 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:08.320 appointments that have not been predicated on. 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:11.640 Experience or merit. 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.360 But this is what this is the team we have 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:17.080 to work with, that we're working. 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:18.480 With going forward. 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:21.240 And you know, I mean, I'm not going to lie 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.640 and say that I'm not disappointed that I'm not within 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:26.160 cabinet itself. 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.920 And this is the problem with politicians like Susan Lee. 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:35.760 Center gave an honest answer she's disappointed with the demotion, 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.959 as she should be, and instead of Acknowledgingcenter's public position, 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:46.360 Susan Lee lies and insists Center's very happy and a 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.679 politician junior to Center, Kerry Anne Little, has now been 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.960 promoted to shadow Cabinet. So the message it sends is 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.160 that Jacenter, one of the top performers in the coalition, 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.040 is not valued by Susan Lee. 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:00.679 It sends the message that. 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:04.360 Talent and merit are not the key drivers of this 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:08.720 shadow cabinet team. And those involved behind the scenes in 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:13.120 this shadow cabinet include Alex Hawk, who was Scott Morrison's 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:17.800 numbers man, also Lee's chief of staff, Dean Shakha, and 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:21.680 I'm told Susan also sought advice from Scott Morrison. 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:23.760 Now I put all. 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.720 Of this and I've reported here to Susan Lee's office, 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.160 and her spokesman told me tonight that the Opposition leader 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.960 has spoken with every single one of her parliamentary colleagues 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:35.680 several times since the election resulted. 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:36.800 Prior to the. 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:40.120 Announcement of the shadow ministry. The leader has announced a 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:42.520 team with enormous talent and as she said this morning, 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:44.920 every member of the party room has an important role 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:48.160 to play. Suggestions that there were voices in the room 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:49.640 trying to influence. 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:50.560 Decisions are wrong. 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:56.839 Now clearly Susan Lee has created even more enemies than 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.840 she had before with this shadow cabinet, and that's before 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:06.080 she's been tested against the ruthless Albanese government. Deputy leader 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.880 Ted O'Bryan has been making phone calls to try and 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:13.480 calm everyone down, but it's not working because right now 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:17.400 Susan Lee only has the support of half the party. 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:20.800 Three people who I believe to have voted for her, 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.480 like my friend Holly Hughes, are no longer in the 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:28.120 party room. They've left politics, yet they participated in the 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:32.040 leadership ballot. Now, internally, I can tell you that coalition 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:36.360 figures are discussing how long Lee will last. Some say 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:40.320 some estimate that she has between six and eighteen months 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:40.960 as leader. 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:43.680 The clock is ticking now. 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:48.760 She could have used this shadow cabinet to unite the party. Instead, 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:53.480 she's given power to factional players devoid of talent, and 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:57.120 in doing so has only succeeded in driving a deep 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:03.880 wedge through the coalition. Now we've been speaking a lot 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.880 about how farmers and other Australians may have to sell 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:10.080 property or assets to pay their tax bill as a 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:13.960 result of Labour's new supertax, and it's not just the supertax, 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:17.200 which starts in July with a thirty percent tax rate 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.800 on earnings above three million in a superfund, but it's 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:25.600 also this unprecedented tax on unrealized capital gains above three million. 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:27.800 That's profit that you. 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:31.120 Haven't made yet and could apply if the value of 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:34.600 your property goes up. As we know, the market goes 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.880 up and down, valuations go up and down. The National 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:41.120 Farmers Federation are warning that many farmers won't be able to. 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:42.520 Pay the increased tax bill. 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:44.920 If you were watching last night, you would have seen 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:47.120 David Johinkey saying this. 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.760 And if it was a applied buck it is proposed 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.080 to be at the start of the financial year. 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:56.200 Partments would have to stump up. 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.520 An increase that they have no ability to pay and 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:01.800 essentially would put their farm at risk. 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:03.520 Put their farm at risk. 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.080 So do you think that there will be farms that 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:10.040 will have to be sold over this businesses that will 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:11.600 go under farming businesses? 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:15.160 Well, I have to find money somewhere. 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:16.280 Now. 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:19.800 The figure show that seventeen thousand super accounts hold farmland. 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:22.280 Three and a half thousand of those have more than 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:26.599 three million dollars as if life wasn't hard enough already 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.840 for our farmers, with this cost of living crisis, with 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:33.480 weather fluctuations, and now they're worried about having to sell 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:38.000 up to meet a tax liability on increased land valuations. 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.920 I mean, it's insane and quite frankly unethical. 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:44.920 Yet look at how heartless. 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:48.360 And cold the Herald's economics writer Ross Gittens is. He 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:52.880 doesn't feel sorry for these farmers. He says, the old 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.880 earn more than the young, find it easier to save 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.640 and get the benefit from super sooner than the young. 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:02.520 I mean, what is that nonsense? 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.600 The old find it easier to save, and oh it's 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.760 so unfair that they get the benefit from super sooner. Well, 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:12.400 they had to wait to access their superannuation. They lived 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:17.840 and worked those long years. But it gets worse, he writes, 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.360 These rich people just don't want to pay more tax, 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.560 and as usual, are hunting around for the best counter 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:29.040 arguments they can find. He says, I can afford to 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:32.600 pay it, and so can they. I mean, that's a 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:36.040 ludicrous takers. One economist said to me today he urgently 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:40.000 needs to retire. Well, let's turn to someone who actually 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.840 knows what he's talking about. Veteran business columnist Robert gott 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.800 leaps It. He's written at length about this topic in 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.160 The Australian, reporting that Jim Chalmers is set to be 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:55.160 remembered as the Treasurer who's unrealized capital gains tax destroyed 0:13:55.600 --> 0:14:01.559 the historic nineteen ninety two universal superannuation vision of Paul Keating. 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:07.240 Keating must know that aspiring Australians, mostly in self managed funds, 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:14.599 will exit superannuation rather than pay tax on unrealized gains. Accordingly, 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.560 a third of Superannuation will exit, leaving it as a 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:24.200 lower to middle income Australian movement. And now we hear 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:28.720 that Paul Keating is reportedly furious about the idea of 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:33.520 taxing unrealized capital gains got leaps, and reports that both 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:38.520 Paul Keating and Bill Kelty are preparing to publicly blast 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:43.080 the Alberteazy government over this. Industry funds have told got 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:47.040 Leaps and that Keating is white hot with anger, and 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:51.560 Robert wrote a number of those funds now believe, as 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.760 a result of receiving an ear full of that Keating anger, 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:58.160 that in due course the former Prime Minister and Treasurer 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:03.040 will go public with a withering blast against Charmers more 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:08.240 intense than any ever directed to a Cabinet minister. Keating 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.000 will be backed with more moderate language by Bill Kelty, 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:14.280 who in nineteen ninety two brought the Union movement into 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:18.520 the Keating vision that Charmers is now set to destroy. 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.240 This will be big if Keating and Kelty are preparing 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.840 to wage war on the Albanezy government's plans to tax 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:31.320 unrealized capital gains, and let's hope they do, because it's 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:34.760 unlikely Susan Lee will be able to stop Jim Charmers. 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.000 It would be like being flogged with a warm lettuce 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:40.200 or being moored by a dead sheep. 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.080 As Keating would say, I was. 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:46.040 Like being flogged with a warm letters a blog with 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:47.000 a warm letters. 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:48.600 Has he got up? You know? 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.960 More mold by a dead shape, more by a dead shape. 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:58.760 Biting criticisms from the father of superannuation against this would 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:02.600 be highly effective. Whether it will be enough to encourage 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:06.760 Labor to back down on their contentious policy is yet 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:12.480 to be seen, and Robert gott Leibsen will be on 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:14.680 the show later on to speak about this. But now 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.680 let's bring in National Senator Matt Canavan and Chief economist 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.200 at the Institute of Public Affairs, Adam Crichton. 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.160 Welcome to you both. Look, I want to start with 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.160 the shadow cabinet now. We're going to get to net 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:27.040 zero in a moment. 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:27.440 Matt. 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.920 But Matt, you ran against David little Crowd for leader 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.800 and you've chosen not to be in shadow cabinet. But 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.880 your friend Barnaby Joyce, your colleague Michael McCormack, were dumped. 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:43.520 That's not the best decision to have experienced former leaders 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:45.400 to leave them on the back bench. 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:50.080 Is it. Yeah, Look, Sharry, I'm probably going to disappoint you. 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:53.480 I just don't really care too much about who's who 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:54.040 in the zoo. 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.320 It's never knows who in the zoo. 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.440 It's putting forward the best coalition teams so that they 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:03.440 can win against out in the Albanize. He surely, Matt, 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.679 you care about kicking the Albanezy government out and you 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:08.440 need your best team. 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:10.359 I do do that. I do care about that. I 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.359 do care about that show. But just on that point, 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:14.840 as a general rule, I'm just not so sure that 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:18.080 the lineup of the Shadow Cabinet makes that much difference. So, 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:21.080 I mean every parliamentary and all of us have the 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.560 ability to hold an executive governor account in the Senate 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:26.720 or the House of Reps and through committee processes whatever 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:29.160 we are in. I mean, one of the more effective 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.400 campaigns I ever saw against an elected government was by 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.680 Tim Wilson, a colleague of mine, give him his due. 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:36.600 Against the franking credits. 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.480 Now, Tim wasn't a member of the Shadow Ministry when 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:44.160 he did that work and took down effectively or at least 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:46.119 a big part of the government on that issue. And 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.920 so I just think all of us could focus a 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:50.960 little bit more about that job. That's our first job, 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:53.919 to oppose the government in the parliament. It actually doesn't 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:56.280 matter too much. Yeah, look, the leaders matter that sort 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.719 of stuff, but you know that's being done now. I 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.359 support both leaders making the best best deal this they can. 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.199 But yeah, who's in every particular portfolio. I'm not sure 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:07.879 it's going to make that much different at the election 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:08.919 in a fears. 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:11.760 Time, Adam, would you agree that there are a lot 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.359 of talented players left on the backbench that this shadow 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:19.320 cabinet hasn't been appointed based on merit in some cases? 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:24.320 Well, look, Showy, I think I'll probably disappoint you as well. 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:27.000 I mean, I think you're being slightly harsh on Susan Lee. 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:29.480 I mean, she's just appointed the people that she thinks 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:32.920 will maximize her time in the job, like any leader does, 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.399 whether they're Prime Minister or Leader of the Opposition. 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:36.280 She's done that. 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:38.919 Look, I agree it's somewhat amusing that the number of 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.080 women has dropped from eleven to eight in the Shadow 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.680 ministry because of course we're always you're listening to always 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.240 talk about well, we always hear all this talk about 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:49.360 the importance of women, but of course, in reality it's 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:51.959 just rhetoric, you know, I mean, neither side actually believes 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:55.440 in it. One vote is one vote, whether you're male 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.560 or female, and that's what informs the decisions of both 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.520 the Prime Minister and the leader of the position. So look, 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:03.879 there are some you know, there's lots of talented people 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:07.960 in the Parliament, and you know, I want the opposition 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.280 to be a functioning and effective opposition, so I wish 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:15.600 Susan Lee, well, look, let's let's just wait and see 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.479 what happens. Right, there's there's there's always fallouts. I mean, 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:20.600 Tony Abbitt famously said that you know, every time there's 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:22.719 a reshuffle, you make more enemies than you make friends. 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:25.120 But you know, but she had to appoint a new 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:29.480 shadow ministry, and she had to appoint one with her preferences, 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:32.080 and that's that's what's happened. So let's let's just judge 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:34.200 her by that kind. 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.400 Of bothers me that not many men are coming out 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.280 against the fact that for senior four of the most 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:41.240 senior coalition women have been dumped. 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:43.439 Matt, surely you have a view on that. 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:50.399 Well, look, I want a shadow ministry based on merit. 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:52.720 Look what I would say. 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:56.040 About some of my female colleagues is they definitely have 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:58.040 done I think a very good job. I mean, Sarah 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:02.000 Henderson did a great job as Education spokesperson. But look, 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:04.600 some people have to be appointed and sometimes some people 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:06.960 will miss out. There are talented people right across the 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:10.359 Liberal and National parties, So I do do feel for Sarah, 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:14.560 for Claire, for Jane. All of contributed enormously to our 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:18.280 party in the last few years. But they'll continue to contribute. 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:20.680 And I've been in contact with all of them today 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.240 and said, hey, you like on the backbenchain, too bad? 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:25.399 You can have lots of fun and still achieve a lot. 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:26.760 I feel like I've achieved a lot of the last 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.080 few years as a Senator for Queensland, so it's a 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:31.560 great honor to have this role. It's a yes, an 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.080 even greater honor sometimes to be in a ministerial role. 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:35.879 But let's be real here. We've got thumped at the 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:38.280 election and we're talking about shadow ministers not ministers, so 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:39.400 there's a big, big difference. 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:42.960 It's a big difference, of course, But the issue is 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:47.119 you need the absolute top fighting coalition team to have 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.760 even a chance at cloring back the thirty plus seats 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:53.680 that is ahead of the coalition to try and regain 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:55.920 the ability to govern, and that's not going to happen 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:59.040 with the current team. Right, Let's turn to net zero 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.159 because I know you're desperate to speak about that, Matt. 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:05.280 Now there are liberals speaking out saying that net zero 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:08.360 needs to be kept. Zoe mackenzie is one of them, 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.119 which Barnaby Joyce then on with Antrew Bolt argued against. 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:12.680 Have a look. 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:17.640 I am personally optimistic that we will continue to observe 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:21.120 the net zero goal. It is important for an electorate 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:24.280 like mine where environment is very highly valued. But more 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:27.840 importantly it's very important in the minds of the people. 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:31.280 In Australia's metropolitan seats. There are eighty eight of them, 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:34.000 and my side of politics only now holds eight. 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:37.800 If you ever are questioned them, you know you're abhorrent. 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:42.359 You know you want the kidding sinstantaneously combus. It's guarded 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:46.320