WEBVTT - Paul Murray Live | 7 September 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:08.160 This is Paul Murray Live. Thank you very much, Shari. 0:00:08.210 --> 0:00:11.090 Big show ahead tonight. Let's go to Canberra and talk 0:00:11.130 --> 0:00:14.030 about the number one issue that has been the case 0:00:14.070 --> 0:00:17.110 for multiple weeks. It's come and gone from media attention, 0:00:17.270 --> 0:00:19.349 but you know we've been talking a lot about it, 0:00:19.410 --> 0:00:21.470 and that is the line in the sand that the 0:00:21.510 --> 0:00:25.490 federal government has drawn for our veterans. Now, the veterans 0:00:25.750 --> 0:00:30.700 today again brought the media's attention back to the issue 0:00:30.710 --> 0:00:34.099 and by literally taking off their medals and laying them 0:00:34.260 --> 0:00:36.140 on the ground. Now, they are not throwing them away. 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:38.140 They are not getting rid of the medals. They are 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:42.870 not surrendering the medals. But as a powerful symbol, people 0:00:42.970 --> 0:00:46.989 are showing that they are up for this fight, not 0:00:47.010 --> 0:00:50.720 just for themselves, but for up to 25,000 veterans who 0:00:50.780 --> 0:00:56.020 are affected by the decision that has been made here. Now, 0:00:56.260 --> 0:00:59.190 Michael McCormick, the Shadow Veterans Affairs Minister, he's been the 0:00:59.250 --> 0:01:02.950 one doing the majority of asking of questions in Parliament today. He, 0:01:02.990 --> 0:01:05.390 of course, has said that we made a pack and 0:01:05.410 --> 0:01:08.069 that we've let the veterans down. This all goes back 0:01:08.130 --> 0:01:11.399 to a decision in the budget that kicks in next year, 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:15.780 which is an artificial cap on allied health. $ 5, 000 per 0:01:15.819 --> 0:01:20.039 veteran per year. But as we've told you in the past... 0:01:20.709 --> 0:01:25.190 A lot of veterans go past that $ 5, 000, including people 0:01:25.230 --> 0:01:29.140 who have previously met with government ministers who spent that 0:01:29.220 --> 0:01:33.800 money not on plastic surgery but on mental health services. 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:39.619 The money runs out. Now, today, the veterans made their 0:01:39.740 --> 0:01:43.260 impact and thankfully the media was there to record it. 0:01:44.580 --> 0:01:49.110 Each medal represents deeds of valour, loyalty... and sacrifice. But 0:01:49.130 --> 0:01:52.630 the promises these medals represent cannot be honoured in ceremony 0:01:53.410 --> 0:01:55.060 and then abandoned in policy. 0:01:55.320 --> 0:02:01.320 This implementation was introduced without a single question or conversation 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:03.480 with the people it was going to affect. 0:02:04.940 --> 0:02:07.120 Now this decision is not just one that those of 0:02:07.190 --> 0:02:11.110 us from afar see as a disgrace. Obviously the soldiers 0:02:11.550 --> 0:02:14.810 themselves of many wars and all parts of the country. 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.220 But the government thinks it knows better than the RSL. 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:23.090 It thinks that it knows better than Legacy. And it 0:02:23.150 --> 0:02:26.430 thinks that it knows better than Soldier On. Three organisations 0:02:26.470 --> 0:02:32.560 that are above reproach and supposedly have bipartisan support. The Minister, 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.800 Matt Keogh, well, we've seen that he has been found wanting, 0:02:36.500 --> 0:02:40.160 but because this Prime Minister will not ever admit a mistake, 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:42.340 he remains in the job no matter how he treats 0:02:42.540 --> 0:02:44.820 the people in the meetings, and for some reason the 0:02:44.860 --> 0:02:50.910 decision stands. Now, I think tactically the Liberal Party made 0:02:50.950 --> 0:02:55.370 a mistake today by not making this all of question time. Understandably, 0:02:55.389 --> 0:02:59.030 house prices and the value that is eroding right now 0:02:59.450 --> 0:03:02.510 is a major issue. But when you've got return service 0:03:02.570 --> 0:03:04.800 people turning up again in Canberra and sitting in the 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:08.120 public gallery, this should have been question one, two and three. 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:11.520 Because as a rule of politics, when you're in opposition, 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:14.460 if the government doesn't have an answer to something, you 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:18.860 keep asking the question to expose their lack of answer. 0:03:19.780 --> 0:03:22.120 So eventually they got there today. 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:25.669 My question is to the Prime Minister. The Minister for 0:03:25.690 --> 0:03:29.370 Veterans Affairs and Defence Personnel has been unable to name 0:03:29.490 --> 0:03:34.630 a single ex-service organisation that supports Labor's $ 5, 000 cap on 0:03:34.690 --> 0:03:38.660 allied health services for our veterans. When will the Prime 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:43.920 Minister listen to our veterans and scrap the cap? 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.720 And for three minutes, the Prime Minister spoke, but he 0:03:47.780 --> 0:03:50.140 didn't have an answer. Watch this. 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:55.800 I'll be meeting with veterans... later, again, later this afternoon, 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.680 our veterans have stepped up for us and we must 0:03:58.720 --> 0:03:59.460 step up for them. 0:03:59.660 --> 0:04:00.460 So get rid of the cap. 0:04:00.580 --> 0:04:07.260 I want to make three points behind the government proposed 0:04:07.340 --> 0:04:12.140 changes which are designed to come into effect on July 2027. 0:04:12.140 --> 0:04:14.680 That wasn't the question. 0:04:14.700 --> 0:04:18.080 The question was, is there any veterans group who supports 0:04:18.100 --> 0:04:18.580 your idea? 0:04:19.210 --> 0:04:22.420 The government is making a substantial increase to the fees 0:04:22.540 --> 0:04:27.740 paid to allied health professionals providing services to veterans. Why 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.640 are we doing that? Because it was recommended by the 0:04:30.860 --> 0:04:32.940 Royal Commission in Recommendation 71. 0:04:32.940 --> 0:04:39.030 So if you've got the right solution, why are the soldiers. 0:04:37.850 --> 0:04:42.770 Putting the medals down in front of the parliament? Because 0:04:43.830 --> 0:04:48.169 those who provide them weren't being paid properly. That is 0:04:48.230 --> 0:04:49.870 what they found. That's the point. 0:04:50.130 --> 0:04:50.430 Order. 0:04:50.529 --> 0:04:53.770 OK, right, please, please, please. The other two, time-wasting, change 0:04:53.810 --> 0:04:59.010 of subject, never answered the question. So the soldiers went 0:04:59.170 --> 0:05:03.310 inside Parliament today. They had a meeting with the Prime 0:05:03.350 --> 0:05:06.620 Minister and with the Minister. How did that go? 0:05:07.980 --> 0:05:11.500 Scrap the cap, end the lowballing, fix the system. 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.320 Scrap the cap, stop the pain. 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:18.120 The cap needs to go. We need to scrap the cap. 0:05:18.580 --> 0:05:18.920 We need. 0:05:19.370 --> 0:05:23.770 to fix the system and we need to end DVA's low-balling. 0:05:24.589 --> 0:05:27.910 Bloody oath. Good on these people for taking time out 0:05:27.950 --> 0:05:31.060 from their regular life to yet again put themselves on 0:05:31.100 --> 0:05:34.659 the line, to be open to the backgrounding, the ridicule 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:39.279 and the disdain of the government. Now I thought by 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:44.450 this time we would have had a change in the government. 0:05:45.070 --> 0:05:47.620 a change in the government's decision about this. But we 0:05:47.660 --> 0:05:50.670 know that the minister has effectively been spinning his wheels. 0:05:51.940 --> 0:05:53.900 So there was a big move today, which was a 0:05:53.980 --> 0:05:57.360 meeting with the Prime Minister in his office. Now, you 0:05:57.380 --> 0:06:00.440 would assume that the person in the ultimate position to 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.359 be able to reverse the position is a Prime Minister 0:06:03.540 --> 0:06:05.140 to be able to see this for what it is, 0:06:05.380 --> 0:06:10.360 something above party politics, something above wins and losses, instead 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.770 doing something that was the right thing for the veterans, 0:06:15.230 --> 0:06:18.440 a meeting with the Prime Minister in the office. Well, 0:06:18.460 --> 0:06:21.300 there's been no news today about what that meeting was, 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:24.719 so we'll talk to somebody who was inside that meeting 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.919 today with the Prime Minister and inside the meeting with 0:06:28.020 --> 0:06:31.859 the Minister. I fear that the story is exactly the 0:06:31.900 --> 0:06:33.140 same at the end of the day as it was 0:06:33.190 --> 0:06:36.290 at the start, but let's find out together before we 0:06:36.350 --> 0:06:41.670 are done here on Paul Murray Live. Now, as you know, 0:06:41.710 --> 0:06:46.729 there is... A lot of attempts from the government and 0:06:46.770 --> 0:06:49.790 opposition to try to change the subject from cost of living, 0:06:49.830 --> 0:06:52.970 the single number one issue for people in the country 0:06:53.029 --> 0:06:55.510 right now. Of course, when it comes to the government, 0:06:55.790 --> 0:06:59.530 they're trotting out the minister for ushies, the minister for freebies, 0:06:59.589 --> 0:07:04.020 the minister for communications. to talk about more changes when 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:05.840 it comes to social media because, you know, big tech 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.500 is bad. And I don't hate the idea of more 0:07:08.540 --> 0:07:10.320 controls that protect kids. You're not going to get an 0:07:10.380 --> 0:07:13.520 argument about that from me. Why is it happening? Well, again, 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:15.540 because the government thinks this is something that can save 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.240 them from a joint where basically six out of ten 0:07:18.260 --> 0:07:20.820 people disapprove of the Prime Minister right now. As for 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.680 the opposition, again, they were in exactly the right place 0:07:23.740 --> 0:07:26.760 by suggesting we should protect our national symbols. When we 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:31.060 talk about social cohesion, the one symbol that marks 27 0:07:31.060 --> 0:07:34.910 million people is the national flag. So why not create 0:07:34.950 --> 0:07:37.690 jail penalties for people who burn it or people who 0:07:37.730 --> 0:07:43.030 desecrate war memorials? But as important as those issues are, again, 0:07:43.050 --> 0:07:46.010 the News 24 Pulse makes it very clear, one issue 0:07:46.050 --> 0:07:49.700 and one issue alone. is the demand of the citizenry, 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:52.760 and that is to do something about cost of living, 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.440 not forfeits a bugger all down the back of the garden, 0:07:55.500 --> 0:08:00.400 not something to cut artificially inflation, but to actually improve 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:05.140 people's lives. Daylight, second and third, then you get to immigration, 0:08:05.620 --> 0:08:08.700 housing affordability, managing the economy, and then for 7% of 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:13.010 the people, certainly the teal voters, because they can afford it, 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:18.510 climate change becomes the number one issue. Now, judging this moment, 0:08:19.150 --> 0:08:23.010 One Nation, who are spectacular on social media, released this 0:08:23.180 --> 0:08:28.260 video last night timed to emphasise that point, that the 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:33.880 only people focused day, day, day about cost of living 0:08:34.230 --> 0:08:37.610 in this parliamentary week was going to be One Nation. 0:08:41.650 --> 0:08:44.569 MUSIC PLAYS. 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.059 All I want to say is that they don't really. 0:08:48.980 --> 0:08:49.660 Care about us. 0:08:56.300 --> 0:08:58.730 Brilliant. Nice little touch there about the spelling difference between, 0:08:58.750 --> 0:09:02.390 of course, the UK and Australia. So today, major announcement 0:09:02.410 --> 0:09:06.190 from One Nation is that 7 million workers in Australia 0:09:06.230 --> 0:09:08.610 would be able to get a small amount of money 0:09:08.929 --> 0:09:11.720 from their own pot of money for their retirement with 0:09:11.820 --> 0:09:17.030 early access to superannuation. Good evening. Your retirement savings are 0:09:17.050 --> 0:09:19.400 tonight at the centre of debate in Canberra. 0:09:19.620 --> 0:09:23.800 Pauline Hanson has unveiled a controversial new plan for superannuation. 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:28.240 Pauline Hanson has sparked a political fight with Labor, unveiling 0:09:28.300 --> 0:09:31.209 a new policy to give up to 7 million workers 0:09:31.330 --> 0:09:32.850 early access to their super. 0:09:33.900 --> 0:09:36.410 Now, again, I know you've heard it all evening, but 0:09:36.429 --> 0:09:38.210 I want to get into some of the detail, and 0:09:38.250 --> 0:09:40.050 maybe because of a busy life you haven't been able 0:09:40.070 --> 0:09:44.270 to hear what the actual idea is. Well, here is 0:09:44.470 --> 0:09:47.170 One Nation explaining that idea tonight. 0:09:48.410 --> 0:09:52.290 The superannuation will continue to be put into the super 0:09:52.330 --> 0:09:57.630 fund by the employer, and those people that are working 0:09:58.309 --> 0:10:03.030 are renters or paying a mortgage, will by choice can 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:08.280 apply to their superannuation fund to withdraw up to 3%, 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:12.179 one quarter of their superannuation moving forward. So that's not 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:16.740 anything previously it will be only that moving forward for 0:10:16.980 --> 0:10:17.760 three years. 0:10:19.140 --> 0:10:22.380 Now to explain this in dollars and cents, because the 0:10:22.410 --> 0:10:25.400 reality is, is that when 7 million people heard this, 0:10:25.420 --> 0:10:27.700 there are 7 million versions of how much money is 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:31.080 in your superannuation. For those who aren't in it or 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.220 think it's a bad idea, well, we'll get to Labor 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.770 playing games with it today. How does it actually work? 0:10:38.230 --> 0:10:39.209 Channel 9 explains. 0:10:40.300 --> 0:10:44.660 Under the plan, a renter or mortgage holder on $ 100, 000 0:10:43.980 --> 0:10:47.860 a year could opt to take nearly $ 2, 500 from their 0:10:47.900 --> 0:10:53.680 super payments each year for three years. Someone on $ 60, 000 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:54.859 could get $ 1, 530. 0:10:53.820 --> 0:11:01.970 So, biggest scenario here, $ 2, 500 per year for three years. 0:11:02.309 --> 0:11:05.670 That's it. Not all of your superannuation, not draining it 0:11:05.750 --> 0:11:08.030 all so it can go on a car. It is 0:11:08.050 --> 0:11:11.370 a relatively small amount of money from your superannuation to 0:11:11.410 --> 0:11:15.250 be able to pay for life at a time when 0:11:15.490 --> 0:11:17.790 the number one political issue in the country is cost 0:11:17.870 --> 0:11:22.080 of living. Agree or disagree with the policy, Australian people 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.520 are demanding ideas from Canberra and the only party that 0:11:25.540 --> 0:11:30.560 came forward with one today was One Nation. So despite 0:11:30.580 --> 0:11:34.660 the fact that you have just heard that it's only 0:11:34.740 --> 0:11:39.229 people earning $ 100, 000 or less, it's only people who are 0:11:39.270 --> 0:11:42.390 currently renting or paying off a mortgage, and the maximum 0:11:42.530 --> 0:11:47.680 amount of money that you would qualify for would be 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:52.280 $ 7, 500 in total over the three years, the same reporter 0:11:52.460 --> 0:11:56.280 who knows the detail because he just reported on it 0:11:56.850 --> 0:12:01.330 pretends it's a raid on all super everywhere. 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.840 Pete, it's 3% of your super for three years, but 0:12:04.860 --> 0:12:07.340 it is a trillion-dollar pool of money, and playing with 0:12:07.380 --> 0:12:10.140 that is risky. But it's a risk Pauline Hanson seems 0:12:10.179 --> 0:12:13.640 happy to take, believing Australian voters will take desperate measures 0:12:13.980 --> 0:12:17.720 because they see these as desperate times. Tonight, the Coalition 0:12:17.740 --> 0:12:21.480 have been caught flat-footed. Jim Chalmers, bruised after the budget fight, 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:25.280 looks reinvigorated. But if this is the election fight One 0:12:25.340 --> 0:12:28.959 Nation wants, it comes with a warning. Every story needs 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.300 a good villain. And in the eyes of Australians, Pete, 0:12:31.620 --> 0:12:33.340 superannuation is not a villain. 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:35.059 Sorry? 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:40.869 The idea is that people earning $ 100, 000 or less, so 0:12:40.890 --> 0:12:42.470 we're not talking about the top end of town, we're 0:12:42.490 --> 0:12:46.030 talking about the vast bulk of normal average people in 0:12:46.210 --> 0:12:53.450 blue-collar and some white-collar jobs being able to take $ 2, 500 0:12:51.050 --> 0:12:54.500 of money that is put aside for their own retirement 0:12:55.059 --> 0:12:59.040 because the money is... is considered by anyone applying for 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.679 it to be more necessary now. Now, of course, the 0:13:02.700 --> 0:13:09.750 reality is, is that $ 2, 500 now helps, but $ 2, 500 if 0:13:09.790 --> 0:13:12.929 left in a superannuation fund for five years, 10 years, 0:13:12.929 --> 0:13:16.050 15 years, 20 years, well, because of compound interest in 0:13:16.090 --> 0:13:18.670 the same way, frankly, like imagine if you just left 0:13:18.710 --> 0:13:24.360 it in a bank account, theoretically it grows. But again, 0:13:25.490 --> 0:13:28.850 It brings us to a bigger issue worth talking about, 0:13:29.309 --> 0:13:33.010 and that is superannuation itself. Now, I'm not going to 0:13:33.030 --> 0:13:35.230 pretend that I'm an expert on this, but I'm trying 0:13:35.250 --> 0:13:37.770 to go right back to have a look at the 0:13:37.890 --> 0:13:41.199 whole field rather than the play that is right in 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.800 front of us today. Remember, we're about the big picture. 0:13:44.820 --> 0:13:47.239 We're about the grains of sand, not the view of 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.300 the total beach. But this is worth jumping back and 0:13:51.340 --> 0:13:54.780 having a look at the biggest possible view. Now, superannuation, 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.579 of course, was introduced as compulsory into the country in 0:13:57.620 --> 0:14:01.740 the early 90s. For the best part of 30, almost 0:14:01.740 --> 0:14:05.080 35 years, this system has been in place. And the 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.180 longer you have been working or the parts of your 0:14:08.220 --> 0:14:12.860 working life have been post the early 90s, theoretically, the 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.820 more superannuation is there. Now, the reason for that was 0:14:16.860 --> 0:14:20.400 because the federal government used to, via the age pension, basically, 0:14:20.700 --> 0:14:25.340 have to pay for all of retirement. But if the workers, 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:29.880 via their bosses, were able to have 9%, 10%, 11%, 12% 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:35.590 of their wage slowly put away, and for most people 0:14:35.650 --> 0:14:39.030 the law is wage plus super. Yes, there are a 0:14:39.030 --> 0:14:43.110 whole bunch of white-collar contracts where superannuation is part of 0:14:43.550 --> 0:14:47.320 your wage. And if superannuation and your wage is combined, 0:14:47.380 --> 0:14:50.030 then effectively the increase in the rate of superannuation has 0:14:50.090 --> 0:14:53.570 been a reduction in the rate of take-home pay. But again, 0:14:53.850 --> 0:14:57.270 for the bulk of people earning under $ 100, 000, it's wage 0:14:57.590 --> 0:15:02.960 plus superannuation. The theory is that, again, you would have 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.120 a significant amount of money left over when it was 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:08.800 time to retire. Now, not every worker who is in 0:15:08.820 --> 0:15:11.920 their 60s has been able to have every year of 0:15:11.940 --> 0:15:17.640 their working life in this system. but 65, 67 in 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:21.740 and around the time when people retire in Australia. I 0:15:21.780 --> 0:15:24.020 looked this up today, and again, these figures come from 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:27.770 the lobbying group for the superannuation funds, okay? The average 0:15:27.830 --> 0:15:31.390 balance in Australia is $ 371, 000. However, $ 1 in the account 0:15:31.410 --> 0:15:39.230 or $ 3 million in the account, the median balance is $ 200, 000. 0:15:44.290 --> 0:15:50.740 Why does this matter? Because again, same people. To live comfortably, 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.460 to be able to have all the comforts you were 0:15:53.500 --> 0:15:56.220 able to have during your working life, during your retirement, 0:15:56.580 --> 0:15:59.740 they claim if you're a couple will cost $ 78, 000 per year. Remember, 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:11.460 average balance is only $ 371, 000. So there's not many $ 78, 000 0:16:10.540 --> 0:16:13.140 out of that pot. If you are somebody who would 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:17.160 be on a more modest lifestyle, again, the presumption being 0:16:17.180 --> 0:16:19.120 that you've paid off your house by this point in time, 0:16:19.380 --> 0:16:24.500 so just to keep things ticking, $ 52, 000. Again, if the 0:16:24.540 --> 0:16:29.920 median balance is $ 200, 000, that's only four years. So, again, 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:31.900 this whole idea that we are going to play out 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.630 in the next little while, this idea that supposedly... You 0:16:36.650 --> 0:16:40.090 can't touch superannuation because superannuation is your retirement, right? The 0:16:40.130 --> 0:16:43.070 reality is that very, very significant people who are in 0:16:43.110 --> 0:16:44.860 their 60s right now, they have lived with this for 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:46.790 the majority of their working life, but not their total 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.900 working life. If you're somebody who at the age of 0:16:49.900 --> 0:16:53.800 65 to 67 is living alone, is a single person, 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:59.360 $ 55, 000 is what you need to have a comfortable lifestyle. 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:03.450 $ 36, 000 for a modest lifestyle. Again, can we go back 0:17:03.510 --> 0:17:11.119 to the average balance? $ 371, 000. Median balance, $ 203, 000. So I'm 0:17:11.140 --> 0:17:12.859 not asking you to do maths. I'm just saying the 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:17.780 pile of money is only divisible by four years, five years, 0:17:18.020 --> 0:17:22.409 six years, seven years. And the reality for Australians is 0:17:22.450 --> 0:17:26.470 that we are living way past our 80s. So a 0:17:26.510 --> 0:17:29.090 system that was designed in the early 90s when people 0:17:29.170 --> 0:17:33.379 didn't live as long, didn't have as many expenses because 0:17:33.859 --> 0:17:38.419 life wasn't as expensive as it is now, the idea 0:17:38.460 --> 0:17:41.800 of being able to retire on your own dollar, well, 0:17:41.980 --> 0:17:46.860 it's not a reality for the vast majority of Australians. Thus, 0:17:47.140 --> 0:17:50.330 the conversation about somebody who may well only be able 0:17:50.350 --> 0:17:53.209 to take care of their own retirement for five years 0:17:53.230 --> 0:17:59.170 or considering that to be the trade-off that I can 0:17:59.570 --> 0:18:01.790 live as I currently do for five years or I 0:18:01.830 --> 0:18:05.500 can get $ 2, 500 a year for three years. That's the equation, 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:12.200 all right? Now, immediately, rather than getting into the detail, 0:18:12.220 --> 0:18:16.379 rather than getting into the reality... that superannuation is not 0:18:16.940 --> 0:18:19.300 as wealthy for the majority of Australians as the government 0:18:19.340 --> 0:18:22.700 makes it out to be, and it's not as worthless 0:18:23.340 --> 0:18:26.140 as some others may want to make it out to be. 0:18:27.850 --> 0:18:33.850 The lefty economists, straight away. One nation's superannuation rate, inflationary today. Now, remember, 0:18:34.190 --> 0:18:38.590 if the government came up with $ 2, 500 in cost of 0:18:38.630 --> 0:18:40.950 living help, that wouldn't be called inflationary, but this would 0:18:40.990 --> 0:18:45.530 be apparently inflationary. And of course, it makes you poorer tomorrow. Well, 0:18:45.550 --> 0:18:50.970 you're already poor tomorrow. Now, again, the whole idea around 0:18:51.010 --> 0:18:54.340 superannuation from the government's perspective is that they used to 0:18:54.380 --> 0:18:58.359 fund all of retirement, but theoretically, they would end up 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:01.740 not funding any retirement because everyone who's worked has been 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:05.300 able to fund their own retirement. Again, that only really 0:19:05.380 --> 0:19:07.880 works if you're somebody who has been able to earn 0:19:07.980 --> 0:19:11.840 a very significant amount of money for your entire working life, 0:19:12.140 --> 0:19:15.159 and that is not the majority of workers even for 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:18.310 their entire working life if you started a job when 0:19:18.330 --> 0:19:22.149 the system came into place in the early 1990s. But 0:19:22.170 --> 0:19:25.110 Jim Chalmers assumes no one pays attention to the detail, 0:19:26.230 --> 0:19:29.250 that basically... they would get the rails run like they 0:19:29.270 --> 0:19:31.990 did on Channel 9 tonight, that even though they showed 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:39.000 you the number of $ 2, 500 for three years, $ 7, 500 maximum exposure, 0:19:39.580 --> 0:19:42.720 let's pretend it's a rate on every single superannuation fund, 0:19:43.030 --> 0:19:46.369 that Australians of all types somehow will be robbed of 0:19:46.450 --> 0:19:49.550 their retirement because someone makes a choice because of the 0:19:49.609 --> 0:19:55.030 emergency in 2026, that it will affect everyone in 2036, 46, 0:19:55.030 --> 0:19:58.650 56 and so on. Here's the Treasurer. 0:19:59.670 --> 0:20:05.139 This is exactly why One Nation poses an unacceptable and 0:20:05.260 --> 0:20:10.590 dangerous risk to Australian workers. One Nation is proposing a 0:20:10.750 --> 0:20:15.650 full frontal attack on superannuation as a full frontal attack 0:20:15.970 --> 0:20:16.950 on Australian workers. 0:20:18.510 --> 0:20:22.810 What does that mean? What does that mean? Again, the 0:20:22.869 --> 0:20:25.520 only people who can qualify for it is not compulsory, 0:20:25.890 --> 0:20:29.919 it is the small number of people who qualify. Do 0:20:29.940 --> 0:20:33.350 you earn less than $ 100, 000? And do you consider your 0:20:33.390 --> 0:20:36.630 current financial circumstance to be so significant that you need 0:20:36.670 --> 0:20:40.150 to draw down on the super? Tick, again, small number. 0:20:40.490 --> 0:20:46.410 And of that, it's $ 7, 500, when presumably there's at least 0:20:46.450 --> 0:20:49.570 a couple of hundred, maybe $ 300, 000 by the end of 0:20:49.690 --> 0:20:54.119 the rainbow. Again, the government blows up about this not 0:20:54.150 --> 0:20:57.800 because they care about your retirement savings. They care about 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:01.820 this because of the bill that is the age pensions 0:21:02.900 --> 0:21:05.600 And the reality for most people in Australia is that 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:11.300 they will move pretty quickly from working life to superannuation 0:21:11.820 --> 0:21:17.190 to part pension to full pension. And again, when we 0:21:17.230 --> 0:21:20.390 have a look here at the data from the federal budget, 0:21:21.350 --> 0:21:26.129 March 28, 2025, 2.9 million people aged 65 years or 0:21:26.490 --> 0:21:32.280 over are receiving income support payments. That's 62%. of all 0:21:32.340 --> 0:21:35.740 people over the age of 65 are getting some form 0:21:35.820 --> 0:21:38.550 of welfare. So, again, the attempt to scare people in 0:21:38.590 --> 0:21:40.609 their 60s, well, they're already in a position where they 0:21:40.650 --> 0:21:42.970 don't have enough super to actually live the rest of 0:21:43.010 --> 0:21:45.850 their life. Let alone, of course, if you don't own 0:21:45.869 --> 0:21:48.090 your own house, there's not enough super to be able 0:21:48.109 --> 0:21:50.949 to pay for your aged care. But we don't want 0:21:50.970 --> 0:21:52.630 to talk about that problem. Let's just pretend the problem's 0:21:52.650 --> 0:21:55.609 over here and there's trillions of dollars that Pauline Hanson's 0:21:55.650 --> 0:21:57.670 stealing in the middle of the night. It's not happening. 0:21:58.660 --> 0:22:01.189 What is happening, though, is that the share of the 0:22:01.230 --> 0:22:05.890 federal budget that goes to welfare is growing. It is now, 0:22:06.290 --> 0:22:10.669 according to the most recent federal budget, 37% of the 0:22:10.730 --> 0:22:15.760 entire federal budget, that's the green, is social security and welfare. 0:22:16.859 --> 0:22:21.920 The biggest chunk of that is the aged pension. Australia's 0:22:21.980 --> 0:22:26.450 welfare spend is going to be, last year, under $ 300 billion. 0:22:27.900 --> 0:22:35.260 This year, over $ 300 billion. Next year, $ 315 billion. So supposedly, 0:22:35.340 --> 0:22:38.010 more people are retiring with more money than they've had 0:22:38.050 --> 0:22:41.670 in superannuation. But funnily enough, the aged pension keeps going up. Why? 0:22:42.130 --> 0:22:45.170 Because the truth about superannuation is that it is not 0:22:45.530 --> 0:22:48.430 the solution to the retirement problem. It is a solution 0:22:48.690 --> 0:22:51.020 to the government problem of how much money they have 0:22:51.060 --> 0:22:57.389 to spend when it comes to aged pensions. By 2030, 0:22:57.390 --> 0:23:05.300 it's $ 335 billion, a jump of $ 37 billion in essentially, financially, 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:11.040 five years. And why, in part, does that bill keep 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:14.939 going up if theoretically more workers have more money because 0:23:14.980 --> 0:23:19.500 of superannuation? Oh, that's right. There are more people than 0:23:19.580 --> 0:23:24.040 ever before. Because, of course, the Ponzi scheme... is that 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:28.760 to pay for this generation's old age pension, we need 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:31.290 to bring in hundreds of thousands of people each and 0:23:31.330 --> 0:23:34.750 every year to pay taxes to be able to pay 0:23:34.830 --> 0:23:38.290 for that. So theoretically, the bill keeps going up, the 0:23:38.330 --> 0:23:40.889 demand for tax keeps going up, which means the population 0:23:40.950 --> 0:23:44.429 keeps growing. If only there was a political party who 0:23:44.450 --> 0:23:49.070 was willing to talk about dealing with that problem. That's right, 0:23:49.090 --> 0:23:52.710 big Australia. You pay for it in lots of ways. 0:23:53.420 --> 0:23:56.490 every day. But do you expect the media to cover that? 0:23:57.010 --> 0:23:57.250 No. 0:23:58.830 --> 0:24:01.950 They've just got their talking points from Jim, who's spent 0:24:01.990 --> 0:24:05.070 enough time in the naughty corner after the budget lies. 0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:11.380 And another perfect example about how the better than us 0:24:11.460 --> 0:24:15.800 in the media actually spin the ball on behalf of 0:24:15.820 --> 0:24:17.479 the Prime Minister. Remember how I showed you this how 0:24:17.510 --> 0:24:21.980 many times during the election campaigns? Generally speaking, they like 0:24:22.160 --> 0:24:24.960 either the arrangements that they have with the Prime Minister, 0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:26.840 the way the Prime Minister deals with them, or they 0:24:26.859 --> 0:24:28.640 like that side of politics. And the media, of course, 0:24:28.700 --> 0:24:31.200 each and every day turn up to cover any and everything. 0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:33.399 And we saw how the vast majority of the media 0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:38.980 didn't talk about $ 2, 500. Instead, they turned around and talked 0:24:39.000 --> 0:24:43.090 about trillions of dollars. And again, a perfect example about 0:24:43.119 --> 0:24:45.609 how they just spin the ball on the Prime Minister's behalf. 0:24:46.369 --> 0:24:51.929 Here's the ABC's website tonight. The politics section. But when 0:24:51.950 --> 0:24:54.129 you look at it this way, it tells you how 0:24:54.170 --> 0:24:58.939 it really works. In red is the coverage for the 0:24:59.000 --> 0:25:02.959 non-government parties. The headlines have negative words in them. It's 0:25:02.980 --> 0:25:05.820 all about doubt, not explaining the policy. It's about letting 0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:08.320 you learn about the policy via the criticism. The green, 0:25:08.340 --> 0:25:10.340 of course, is for the government, where you get the 0:25:10.780 --> 0:25:17.210 benefit of the doubt. All right, let's continue in a 0:25:17.230 --> 0:25:19.090 moment or two's time with an awful lot of things 0:25:19.130 --> 0:25:20.929 to debate. We shall do so in a moment or 0:25:20.950 --> 0:25:24.050 two's time. We will also take you inside the meeting 0:25:24.150 --> 0:25:27.350 with the Prime Minister and with the Veterans Affairs Minister. 0:25:27.369 --> 0:25:29.610 We're just getting started. I've got so much more to say, 0:25:29.630 --> 0:25:32.869 but let's get into the debate because there's plenty to 0:25:32.910 --> 0:25:34.830 talk about tonight here on Paul Murray Live. Thank you 0:25:34.869 --> 0:25:36.689 so much for watching. We've got so much to discuss 0:25:36.770 --> 0:25:39.710 in a moment or two's time, including the public servants 0:25:39.730 --> 0:25:41.780 who are sick of being shown to not know what 0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:44.560 they're talking about on social media. We'll get to this 0:25:44.619 --> 0:25:50.610 in a sec. Thank you so much. Class is back 0:25:50.670 --> 0:25:53.399 in session. Imagine how much fun it was for me 0:25:53.420 --> 0:25:55.919 to read up on superannuation and try to find at 0:25:55.940 --> 0:25:58.410 least one source to be consistent all the way through. Anyway, 0:25:58.609 --> 0:26:01.119 they'll tell me whether I'm right or wrong. leader of 0:26:01.130 --> 0:26:03.600 the Nationals, and he, of course, is in Parliament because 0:26:03.619 --> 0:26:06.420 that's the job. And Nicholas Rees is the Lord Mayor 0:26:06.500 --> 0:26:08.899 of Melbourne, where, of course, they are about to celebrate 0:26:08.980 --> 0:26:14.030 the National Football League kicking off its season on Friday. So, Matt, 0:26:14.170 --> 0:26:16.990 before we get to anything else, what about this story 0:26:17.010 --> 0:26:20.250 that is developing this evening, the Australian newspaper is reporting 0:26:20.290 --> 0:26:22.949 it on, that at Senate estimates, where quite often the 0:26:23.030 --> 0:26:26.580 public service either tries to hide working or tries to 0:26:26.619 --> 0:26:29.619 explain away decisions of government or tries to take everything 0:26:29.680 --> 0:26:33.510 on notice... that they don't like that people like yourself, 0:26:33.570 --> 0:26:36.169 when you catch them flat-footed, will cut it up and 0:26:36.300 --> 0:26:39.260 use it on social media. In fact, today, Canberra's depart 0:26:39.280 --> 0:26:43.300 mental chiefs have demanded that politicians be restricted from posting 0:26:43.340 --> 0:26:49.109 potentially harmful videos of what they say in those Senate estimates. Really? 0:26:51.630 --> 0:26:52.890 Look, it's pretty. 0:26:52.710 --> 0:26:57.650 Astounding, Paul, that our public service, and there's a hint 0:26:57.710 --> 0:27:01.220 in the name there, public... want to be hidden from 0:27:01.359 --> 0:27:04.609 the public. They are paid by you and I to 0:27:04.630 --> 0:27:06.770 do a job. It's always been the case that our 0:27:06.790 --> 0:27:09.689 Parliament's been open to the public to see, and you 0:27:09.730 --> 0:27:11.409 can come in if you're in Canberra and don't have 0:27:11.430 --> 0:27:13.070 a lot else to do. You can walk into Senate 0:27:13.109 --> 0:27:15.250 Estimates and sit down the back. There's a public gallery. 0:27:16.190 --> 0:27:19.050 It's open to the public. Of course, thanks to social media, 0:27:19.230 --> 0:27:22.129 so many more Australians now can effectively do that. They 0:27:22.150 --> 0:27:24.280 can be in the room. And that's, I think, a 0:27:24.320 --> 0:27:28.520 good thing because it exposes... some of the reasons why 0:27:28.720 --> 0:27:33.180 our country is sliding downhill because we have had a 0:27:33.220 --> 0:27:39.290 lot of decision makers who felt they are unaccountable and 0:27:39.330 --> 0:27:42.010 can avoid the public scrutiny that should come with a role. 0:27:42.330 --> 0:27:44.470 Keep in mind here, Paul, that the people that you're 0:27:44.510 --> 0:27:48.770 seeing at these Senate estimates earn at least as much 0:27:48.830 --> 0:27:51.420 often as the Prime Minister, if not multiple times. 0:27:51.500 --> 0:27:51.920 Correct. 0:27:52.340 --> 0:27:55.900 Except that role, it should come with public scrutiny. 0:27:55.920 --> 0:27:58.790 If you If you don't want to have that applied 0:27:58.810 --> 0:28:01.010 to you, there's lots of other positions you could take, 0:28:01.090 --> 0:28:03.710 either in the public or private sectors, that don't come 0:28:03.730 --> 0:28:04.729 with that level of scrutiny. 0:28:04.810 --> 0:28:06.730 Well, that's it. We're not talking about the junior burghers here. 0:28:06.750 --> 0:28:08.670 We're not talking about the junior staff. We're talking about 0:28:08.690 --> 0:28:12.540 the tippy-top, the ones who are often paid almost double 0:28:12.800 --> 0:28:15.100 than the Prime Minister, certainly some of the people in 0:28:15.160 --> 0:28:17.560 his department. They get all the perks that an elected 0:28:17.600 --> 0:28:19.359 politician would get in terms of travel and all the 0:28:19.400 --> 0:28:21.379 rest of it. And often they sit there and go, 0:28:22.240 --> 0:28:24.350 where's the missing bid in? I'll get back to you. No, 0:28:24.430 --> 0:28:27.230 we should see that process. Nick, again, part of this 0:28:27.270 --> 0:28:30.730 is apparently abuse that is coming towards people on social media. Again, 0:28:31.090 --> 0:28:34.460 I don't endorse that, don't accept that at all. Not 0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:36.020 their claims of it. I have no doubt that they 0:28:36.040 --> 0:28:39.240 probably are. being vilified and abused and I don't accept 0:28:39.580 --> 0:28:42.110 that as an acceptable thing to do to anyone regardless 0:28:42.150 --> 0:28:44.170 of whether you agree or disagree with them but what 0:28:44.190 --> 0:28:47.540 about fundamentally here these people are part of the system 0:28:47.580 --> 0:28:49.940 the only time to see them is when they sit 0:28:49.980 --> 0:28:53.720 down and now they don't want their picture anywhere Look. 0:28:53.900 --> 0:28:56.740 I absolutely believe that they should be subject to scrutiny, 0:28:56.900 --> 0:28:59.260 and having sat through some of those Senate estimate hearings, 0:28:59.340 --> 0:29:01.820 I can tell you they do get absolutely grilled by 0:29:01.880 --> 0:29:04.490 people like Senator Matt Canavan, and. 0:29:04.440 --> 0:29:05.110 So they should. 0:29:05.130 --> 0:29:10.870 I'm not across the detail of these restrictions, but... I'm 0:29:10.930 --> 0:29:14.830 not against there being, you know, rules in place around 0:29:15.110 --> 0:29:19.630 how the content from these meetings is used or, in fact, 0:29:19.760 --> 0:29:22.520 what the pollies can do while the meetings are underway. 0:29:22.540 --> 0:29:24.760 I mean, you did that great segment on your show about, 0:29:24.780 --> 0:29:26.280 you know, what pollies. 0:29:25.940 --> 0:29:27.820 Did today while the rest of us were working. 0:29:28.120 --> 0:29:31.020 Well, the idea of sort of cutting up greatest hits 0:29:31.790 --> 0:29:34.870 on senior public service, I'm not sure that's great for 0:29:34.890 --> 0:29:37.709 our democracy. uh it's not necessarily great for scrutiny on 0:29:37.750 --> 0:29:40.520 government it's sort of like um i don't know sham 0:29:41.080 --> 0:29:44.940 uh sham politics rather than trying to generally penetrate uh 0:29:45.020 --> 0:29:47.340 issues that need to be properly scrutinized. 0:29:46.800 --> 0:29:48.880 Yeah but in the same way that certain uh that 0:29:48.920 --> 0:29:51.680 certain senators you know want to call ceos to canberra 0:29:51.700 --> 0:29:55.120 to waver them about telecommunications or transport well the same 0:29:55.180 --> 0:29:57.360 situation has to exist for, again, the people we are 0:29:57.420 --> 0:30:00.440 paying for that are the permanent government in Canberra. So, anyway, 0:30:00.710 --> 0:30:01.370 and also I don't think. 0:30:01.410 --> 0:30:04.010 Paul, can I say, I think our greatest hits, our 0:30:04.030 --> 0:30:05.650 greatest hits, I think, would right through the roof. I'm 0:30:05.690 --> 0:30:08.420 happy to supply some material if you like. Can I 0:30:08.500 --> 0:30:10.940 add one more point here, one more point? The questions 0:30:10.980 --> 0:30:12.940 we ask at Senate Estimates are actually to the Minister, 0:30:13.020 --> 0:30:16.000 formally to the Minister. It's only when the minister doesn't 0:30:16.100 --> 0:30:17.940 or can't answer it, it goes to the public servants. 0:30:18.080 --> 0:30:20.760 I think another aspect of this is under this government, 0:30:21.200 --> 0:30:23.120 they tend not to take the questions themselves and let 0:30:23.140 --> 0:30:24.360 the public servants take the heat. 0:30:24.740 --> 0:30:26.460 And maybe if they're worried about this, the. 0:30:26.380 --> 0:30:28.400 Government could step up and answer these questions themselves if 0:30:28.440 --> 0:30:29.300 they were across their brief. 0:30:29.640 --> 0:30:33.720 All right. Let's talk about this allied health situation again. 0:30:33.740 --> 0:30:34.920 We'll talk to it with a couple of blokes in 0:30:34.940 --> 0:30:36.160 a couple of seconds because they were in the meeting 0:30:36.180 --> 0:30:38.650 with the prime minister and with the minister today. Nick, 0:30:38.670 --> 0:30:41.670 as a person who is in executive government, you're leading 0:30:43.230 --> 0:30:45.730 a government there as the City of Melbourne, at some 0:30:45.770 --> 0:30:48.410 point in time, your position as the tippy-top of that 0:30:49.080 --> 0:30:51.740 has to be able to overrule whatever decisions have previously 0:30:51.780 --> 0:30:54.140 been made, if that is possible, up and down the chain. 0:30:54.640 --> 0:30:57.320 I cannot see what the defence of this thing is. 0:30:57.800 --> 0:31:00.100 I don't know what the defence of this is. The 0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:03.180 Prime Minister was given multiple opportunities today to explain what 0:31:03.200 --> 0:31:05.520 the benefit of it was. He doesn't have one. Why 0:31:05.560 --> 0:31:06.760 won't he just get rid of it? 0:31:08.540 --> 0:31:09.960 Yeah, look, it's a good question, Paul. 0:31:10.260 --> 0:31:12.840 I should also disclose here that I'm a trustee of 0:31:12.900 --> 0:31:15.320 the Shrine of Remembrance in Melbourne, so I do a 0:31:15.460 --> 0:31:18.720 lot of work with veterans' communities and I've got a 0:31:18.760 --> 0:31:21.400 lot of sympathy with the guys who are protesting in 0:31:21.480 --> 0:31:26.340 Parliament today. For the benefit of the discussion here tonight, 0:31:26.940 --> 0:31:30.540 my understanding is that these changes are certainly not intending 0:31:30.560 --> 0:31:34.100 to put a cap on the funds that are available 0:31:34.120 --> 0:31:37.700 to vets for health services. It's simply setting a threshold 0:31:38.400 --> 0:31:41.200 after which the government's saying we'd like the opportunity to 0:31:41.310 --> 0:31:44.990 review before payments are made, which I think is to 0:31:45.030 --> 0:31:47.450 try and bring some saving into the system in the 0:31:47.510 --> 0:31:50.410 same way as, you know, some really challenging decisions have 0:31:50.430 --> 0:31:54.110 had to be made around the NDIS to make it sustainable. 0:31:54.570 --> 0:31:57.330 I think that is what's happening here, but I look 0:31:57.370 --> 0:31:58.310 forward to the interview to come. 0:31:58.720 --> 0:32:01.380 Well, again, my thing about this, Matt, is that if 0:32:01.400 --> 0:32:03.450 the government's trying to say, well, no-one's going to miss 0:32:03.510 --> 0:32:06.330 out here, well, then, again, the cap is totally artificial. 0:32:07.170 --> 0:32:08.730 I don't think that you get the passion out of 0:32:08.750 --> 0:32:10.970 the groups that have turned up today, and good on 0:32:10.990 --> 0:32:13.570 them for turning up again, because the media's not interested 0:32:13.600 --> 0:32:16.040 in actually talking about this unless they have that colour 0:32:16.080 --> 0:32:19.680 and movement. But, again, when you ask questions about this upstairs, 0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:24.600 they don't have any passion around the decision other than 0:32:25.020 --> 0:32:27.110 the blind loyalty to the decision. 0:32:28.990 --> 0:32:32.340 Look, just to fill out the details of what Nick 0:32:32.380 --> 0:32:37.220 just said, the cap means that after $ 5, 000, veterans will 0:32:37.240 --> 0:32:39.300 have to seek approval. So it's not so much a review. 0:32:39.680 --> 0:32:41.980 They have to go to the Department of Veterans Affairs 0:32:42.030 --> 0:32:44.590 and seek approval. Now, anyone who has any experience dealing 0:32:44.610 --> 0:32:47.930 with the DVA knows that that's a tortuous protest process 0:32:47.970 --> 0:32:49.890 at the best of times. And keep in mind, the 0:32:49.910 --> 0:32:52.490 people in this situation that might need this critical care 0:32:52.520 --> 0:32:54.480 of this kind of amount could be in a very 0:32:54.540 --> 0:32:55.360 vulnerable position. 0:32:55.380 --> 0:32:56.020 Correct. 0:32:56.080 --> 0:32:58.460 And they're being asked to go through this process. Now, 0:32:58.480 --> 0:33:00.120 there may be some people who are abusing the system. 0:33:00.140 --> 0:33:03.150 There probably always is. Those people probably won't be perturbed 0:33:03.790 --> 0:33:06.470 by the threshold or the cap. But those vulnerable people 0:33:06.490 --> 0:33:07.710 who need it will be hurt the most. 0:33:07.750 --> 0:33:08.270 And I don't think the. 0:33:08.250 --> 0:33:10.950 Government's thought this through. They certainly haven't discussed it with 0:33:10.970 --> 0:33:13.990 the veterans community. And that's the most insulting thing of all. 0:33:15.140 --> 0:33:18.460 They're now trying to put on a lipstick on a 0:33:18.500 --> 0:33:20.720 pig saying they are consulting with the veterans community. 0:33:20.740 --> 0:33:21.800 But they've already made the decision. 0:33:22.520 --> 0:33:24.660 They've put it in the budget, the savings are banked 0:33:25.600 --> 0:33:27.420 and there's very little wriggle room they've got. The best 0:33:27.460 --> 0:33:28.860 thing they could do to show good faith for the 0:33:28.900 --> 0:33:31.920 veterans community is to put this decision aside, is to 0:33:31.950 --> 0:33:33.670 scrap the cap and then go out and do the 0:33:33.710 --> 0:33:37.110 consultation and come back with a more considered proposal if 0:33:37.130 --> 0:33:39.450 they do need some savings or if there is fraud 0:33:39.490 --> 0:33:40.370 or abuse in the system. 0:33:40.830 --> 0:33:43.290 Matt, is it the case that they are offering higher 0:33:43.410 --> 0:33:46.390 fees for certain allied health services so that would make 0:33:46.430 --> 0:33:49.410 it easier for veterans to get access to certain services? 0:33:49.470 --> 0:33:49.610 Yes. 0:33:50.200 --> 0:33:52.980 Well, it'll also mean, that's true, Nick, some of the savings, 0:33:53.020 --> 0:33:54.800 not all, but some of the savings are being pushed 0:33:54.840 --> 0:33:57.770 back into that. There's still a massive net negative spend 0:33:57.810 --> 0:34:01.390 here on Veterans Affairs as a result of this decision. But, 0:34:02.090 --> 0:34:03.450 of course, that also means that you'll hit the $ 5, 000 0:34:03.350 --> 0:34:03.880 cap earlier too. 0:34:05.050 --> 0:34:07.030 Yeah, but this is the thing. I love, oh, this 0:34:07.090 --> 0:34:09.130 is where we're going to hold the line about government spending. 0:34:09.530 --> 0:34:12.330 You saw the number when it came to social welfare 0:34:12.590 --> 0:34:15.710 taking up 37% of the budget. You saw all the 0:34:16.030 --> 0:34:17.910 off-budget money when it comes to a whole bunch of 0:34:17.930 --> 0:34:20.029 other things they're willing to just not even put in 0:34:20.050 --> 0:34:22.530 the paperwork for. Surely the people who defend the country 0:34:22.570 --> 0:34:24.970 for one day or for a lifetime, they deserve whatever 0:34:25.290 --> 0:34:27.609 it is that's going to help them. I'm completely fine 0:34:27.650 --> 0:34:28.370 with that as a system. 0:34:28.390 --> 0:34:28.870 I do agree with that. 0:34:28.890 --> 0:34:31.750 I do agree with that. All right, let's talk here, Matt, where, 0:34:31.890 --> 0:34:34.750 just goodness me, you turn around, you make an observation... 0:34:34.730 --> 0:34:37.320 about how boys have been going backwards, that the education 0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:40.140 system plays a role in part of that. Oh, they 0:34:40.200 --> 0:34:44.200 all came out. They all had the articles pre-written that 0:34:44.260 --> 0:34:46.420 you were looking at this the wrong way. You've taken 0:34:46.540 --> 0:34:48.980 on those who are the most active on social media. 0:34:49.180 --> 0:34:51.530 Paul, Paul, I'm just so glad. 0:34:52.070 --> 0:34:54.450 I'm so glad that I've allowed these Labor females to 0:34:54.489 --> 0:34:56.870 find their voice again. You know, they said nothing when 0:34:56.930 --> 0:34:59.089 Albo was crap going on about the melons, right? 0:34:59.550 --> 0:35:02.330 They went completely silent. 0:35:03.230 --> 0:35:06.450 But dare I criticise some of the radical theories being 0:35:06.489 --> 0:35:08.950 taught in our schools. They come out like a ton 0:35:08.969 --> 0:35:10.810 of bricks now. Just one of those radical theories that 0:35:10.890 --> 0:35:14.600 no-one has actually responded to. Is it in the documents 0:35:14.620 --> 0:35:18.120 for this Respectful Relationships Programme, in the documents, in the toolkit, 0:35:18.160 --> 0:35:20.880 they call it, it says in bold, they bold this sentence, 0:35:21.320 --> 0:35:24.040 it says that young boys should be given an opportunity 0:35:24.080 --> 0:35:27.460 to reflect and explore on their personal male privilege. 0:35:28.100 --> 0:35:30.090 That's what's in their documents. It's ridiculous. 0:35:30.340 --> 0:35:32.910 The document goes on to warn against celebrating fathers or 0:35:32.950 --> 0:35:36.890 Mother's Day because that could perpetuate stereotypes. Well, I'm sorry, 0:35:37.250 --> 0:35:39.250 I must just be an old-fashioned bigot because I had 0:35:39.270 --> 0:35:41.089 a great Father's Day yesterday, Paul. 0:35:41.110 --> 0:35:43.270 I hope you did too. I hope all the dads did. 0:35:43.780 --> 0:35:46.520 And if we're going to solve the challenges facing our boys, 0:35:46.540 --> 0:35:49.200 and there's a lot of issues with bad behaviour among boys, 0:35:49.219 --> 0:35:50.200 I accept that premise. 0:35:50.700 --> 0:35:52.700 We've got to involve dads. We've got to involve fathers. 0:35:52.719 --> 0:35:55.050 We've got to involve strong male role models. 0:35:55.550 --> 0:35:58.969 And there's no role for them, apparently, in this left-wing 0:35:59.050 --> 0:36:02.830 academic fever dream known as this Respectful Relationships Program. 0:36:03.070 --> 0:36:05.370 So, Nick, I mean, there's a solid example. There's an 0:36:05.390 --> 0:36:09.009 Exhibit A here about something that Matt sees as, and 0:36:09.030 --> 0:36:11.310 I think most people would suggest, is over the line. 0:36:11.610 --> 0:36:14.270 the unnecessary position about, you know, all school kids having 0:36:14.310 --> 0:36:17.170 to accept male privilege here. Again, we're all on a 0:36:17.290 --> 0:36:19.730 unity ticket about wanting to be respectful to all people 0:36:19.770 --> 0:36:22.670 in our society, right? But surely we can have a 0:36:22.710 --> 0:36:26.410 conversation about how that is implemented without it all becoming 0:36:26.489 --> 0:36:28.680 the usual, right? And yes, I know it's three blokes 0:36:28.719 --> 0:36:31.920 talking on TV, but guess what? The news happens, the 0:36:31.960 --> 0:36:34.660 guests are always invited and we like to keep regular 0:36:34.700 --> 0:36:36.200 guests here on a Monday night. 0:36:37.290 --> 0:36:38.950 Well, look, I'm pleased to say I had a great 0:36:38.989 --> 0:36:41.899 Father's Day as well and even got to present the 0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:45.000 Victorian Father of the Year, which is a great bloke 0:36:45.020 --> 0:36:48.420 from Macedon. I mean, look, this whole debate is riddled 0:36:48.620 --> 0:36:52.700 with inconsistencies and double standards. Matt, you know that as 0:36:52.739 --> 0:36:54.990 well as I do. No-one actually, I think, is worse 0:36:55.030 --> 0:36:58.330 than Pauline Hanson, who in the one breath says all 0:36:58.370 --> 0:37:01.850 men shouldn't be blamed for the wrongs of a few 0:37:01.930 --> 0:37:04.489 and then in the next breath tries to blame all Muslims. 0:37:05.660 --> 0:37:06.640 for the wrongs of a few. 0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:09.620 That is just a glaring double standard that she exercises 0:37:09.680 --> 0:37:14.940 almost every day. On this particular debate, I do think, Matt, 0:37:15.080 --> 0:37:17.969 I totally believe you are coming from a good place 0:37:18.030 --> 0:37:19.950 and I know what a proud and a great dad 0:37:20.110 --> 0:37:22.430 you would be. But I think you are on the 0:37:22.469 --> 0:37:26.990 wrong tram here, my friend. Blaming teachers for some. 0:37:26.890 --> 0:37:28.570 Of the issues we are facing in society is completely 0:37:30.940 --> 0:37:33.540 Hang on, Nick. Now, that's not good faith. 0:37:33.560 --> 0:37:36.560 Teaching, it's not woke, it's just common sense. 0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:40.040 I never said you shouldn't teach consent either. I'm asking you, Nick, 0:37:40.060 --> 0:37:42.739 should we teach kids, should we tell kids they have 0:37:42.760 --> 0:37:45.030 personal male privilege? 0:37:45.170 --> 0:37:48.830 You had a swing, let him swing you back. 0:37:49.690 --> 0:37:52.049 Yes or no, Nick, should we tell young boys that 0:37:52.070 --> 0:37:53.250 they have personal male privilege? 0:37:54.150 --> 0:37:58.549 That's my criticism. I'm all for consent, education. I never 0:37:58.590 --> 0:38:01.030 blamed a single teacher. It's the curriculum. It's what's written 0:38:01.070 --> 0:38:02.460 that teachers are meant to teach. 0:38:02.739 --> 0:38:05.279 And I've been inundated with emails from teachers complaining about 0:38:05.300 --> 0:38:06.560 the crap they are. 0:38:06.200 --> 0:38:06.820 Forced to say. 0:38:07.239 --> 0:38:10.049 But should children be told, and particularly young boys, be 0:38:10.090 --> 0:38:11.590 told they have personal male privilege? 0:38:12.219 --> 0:38:17.340 Do you think that boys are surfing toxic male content 0:38:17.760 --> 0:38:19.980 because of what teachers are teaching them in school? 0:38:20.000 --> 0:38:21.560 Do you actually think that's true? 0:38:21.620 --> 0:38:24.859 Yeah, to the extent that you're being told, if you're 0:38:24.900 --> 0:38:27.480 being told that you have personal male privilege, absolutely. What 0:38:27.500 --> 0:38:30.440 do you think, kids? And again, I got this wonderful email. 0:38:30.480 --> 0:38:32.879 I got this wonderful email. It's not the teacher's fault. 0:38:32.940 --> 0:38:35.440 It's the people writing this crap. I got this wonderful 0:38:35.460 --> 0:38:37.640 email by a teacher who said he can see when 0:38:37.660 --> 0:38:39.670 he's saying the stuff that he's forced to say, it 0:38:39.690 --> 0:38:42.129 can see the young boys roll their eyes, cross their arms, 0:38:42.190 --> 0:38:46.290 detach from the class, and guess what those boys are 0:38:46.310 --> 0:38:46.969 probably doing when. 0:38:46.910 --> 0:38:48.590 They go home? 0:38:48.680 --> 0:38:51.739 It pushes them into this sort of stuff, right? So 0:38:52.140 --> 0:38:54.660 it's not rocket science. When you tell people that they 0:38:54.700 --> 0:38:57.760 are privileged, that they are somehow second class. 0:38:58.330 --> 0:39:00.469 What are they going to do? It's predictable. They're going 0:39:00.489 --> 0:39:02.690 to go... I want to move on. 0:39:02.950 --> 0:39:06.930 A recent study has shown that when they mimicked a 0:39:06.969 --> 0:39:10.799 boy aged 16 to 18 on a social media platform, 0:39:11.200 --> 0:39:15.600 it was 23 minutes before they started getting fed toxic 0:39:15.680 --> 0:39:16.720 masculine crap. 0:39:16.739 --> 0:39:19.100 So hang on, hang on. What are these algorithms doing 0:39:19.140 --> 0:39:19.960 to young boys? 0:39:19.980 --> 0:39:22.640 Nick, I think you misunderstand the algorithm. 0:39:22.660 --> 0:39:24.700 Not the teachers of Australia. 0:39:24.739 --> 0:39:27.439 He just literally in this interview tonight said it wasn't 0:39:27.460 --> 0:39:27.859 about the teachers. 0:39:27.880 --> 0:39:29.710 You misunderstood the algorithm. Do you think. 0:39:30.050 --> 0:39:34.480 think Mark Zuckerberg's back there dialing up the algorithm to 0:39:34.520 --> 0:39:36.800 push people to talk about masculinity? Or do you think 0:39:37.360 --> 0:39:40.460 so many young 16-year-old boys have exactly the same experience 0:39:40.520 --> 0:39:42.940 I just described, and I hear time and time again 0:39:42.960 --> 0:39:45.100 from them, that they feel blamed for everything? And so 0:39:45.120 --> 0:39:47.340 they go online and search these things. And the algorithm 0:39:47.480 --> 0:39:50.140 echoes that, right? The algorithm is just a reflection, just 0:39:50.200 --> 0:39:51.400 a mirror of our preferences. 0:39:51.460 --> 0:39:53.080 That's what it does, right? 0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:55.980 So if there's enough 16-year-old boys in this situation, then 0:39:56.020 --> 0:39:57.759 the algorithm kicks in and does that. So maybe we 0:39:57.780 --> 0:40:00.020 should look at the root cause for this problem, not 0:40:00.060 --> 0:40:02.970 go and think some conspiracy theory that matters in the background. 0:40:03.390 --> 0:40:04.570 Influencing all these kids. 0:40:04.910 --> 0:40:07.089 All right. Now, just quickly before we go, a moment 0:40:07.110 --> 0:40:09.730 of unity. NFL coming to Melbourne as the Lord Mayor 0:40:09.750 --> 0:40:11.669 of Melbourne. Are you going to be there and where 0:40:11.690 --> 0:40:12.370 are our tickets? 0:40:12.430 --> 0:40:14.430 Oh, look, I am going to be there, Paul, and 0:40:14.469 --> 0:40:16.960 it's going to be a gigantic week. I mean, the 0:40:17.000 --> 0:40:19.520 biggest sporting event in the world is going to be 0:40:19.560 --> 0:40:23.739 this Friday in Melbourne with the LA Rams playing the 49ers, 0:40:23.880 --> 0:40:25.660 and it's going to be the biggest NFL game ever 0:40:25.739 --> 0:40:29.320 played outside the United States with 100,000 people playing. filling 0:40:29.360 --> 0:40:31.430 the mcg it is going to be epic we've got 0:40:31.489 --> 0:40:33.890 fan zones all over the city i'm hoping to see 0:40:33.989 --> 0:40:36.110 over a million people participate. 0:40:35.910 --> 0:40:37.670 All right good stuff thank you guys do appreciate it 0:40:37.730 --> 0:40:39.290 it is nice to be focused on the footy not 0:40:39.310 --> 0:40:41.460 just the politics appreciate it lads all right quick break 0:40:41.480 --> 0:40:44.060 back with more we do turn our attention to the 0:40:44.100 --> 0:40:45.620 blokes who are in the meeting with the veterans affairs 0:40:45.640 --> 0:40:49.220 minister with the prime minister this stupid cap oh apparently 0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:51.110 there's nothing to see here there's plenty to see here 0:40:51.130 --> 0:40:58.410 we'll talk to them next Right, you know the issue. 0:40:58.489 --> 0:41:01.049 It is this cap. It is artificial. It is unnecessary. 0:41:01.090 --> 0:41:03.610 But the reality, of course, it's not artificial. The reality 0:41:03.670 --> 0:41:06.029 of it, of course, and the government's absolute failure and 0:41:06.070 --> 0:41:08.810 peak-headedness to double down on this means people are suffering. 0:41:09.370 --> 0:41:11.390 Good on these blokes for fronting up, not once but 0:41:11.450 --> 0:41:14.500 twice to Parliament, but they've been fronting up every day before, 0:41:14.820 --> 0:41:17.719 during and after. John Armfield, he met with the Prime 0:41:17.760 --> 0:41:20.840 Minister today. Andy Cullen, he met with the Minister today. 0:41:21.320 --> 0:41:23.620 They join us now from Canberra. Lads, g'day. I'm sorry 0:41:23.660 --> 0:41:25.580 these are the circumstances, but good on you for showing 0:41:25.640 --> 0:41:25.980 up again. 0:41:27.590 --> 0:41:28.930 Thanks for having us, Paul. 0:41:29.230 --> 0:41:29.689 G'day, Paul. 0:41:30.489 --> 0:41:31.290 John, let's get to it. 0:41:31.330 --> 0:41:33.330 At the start of the show, you said this was 0:41:33.410 --> 0:41:36.180 unfair and unnecessary, this cap. It's also not in the 0:41:36.300 --> 0:41:38.880 Royal Commission recommendations either. 0:41:39.460 --> 0:41:41.540 Yeah, so let's get to all of this, right? So, John, 0:41:41.660 --> 0:41:44.340 you're in the meeting with the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister, again, 0:41:44.400 --> 0:41:47.450 tries to turn around and... and make it seem like 0:41:47.770 --> 0:41:50.370 this was linked to the Royal Commission. Instead, no, that 0:41:50.410 --> 0:41:53.180 was being very clever with another part of funding. I 0:41:54.200 --> 0:41:55.540 would have thought he would have pulled the pin by 0:41:55.580 --> 0:41:59.180 now because nobody wants to be upsetting people who've served 0:41:59.200 --> 0:42:01.779 the country. What was he like in the meeting? Was 0:42:01.820 --> 0:42:04.310 he more respectful than the Keogh meeting from a couple 0:42:04.330 --> 0:42:04.770 of weeks ago? 0:42:06.910 --> 0:42:10.120 He's a lot more personable than Matt Keogh. It does 0:42:10.180 --> 0:42:13.820 come across that he does care about veterans. His staff 0:42:13.840 --> 0:42:17.759 are very professional and supportive as well. To me, it 0:42:17.800 --> 0:42:21.600 appears that the failures lay with Minister Keogh and that 0:42:21.640 --> 0:42:25.020 the Prime Minister, obviously being the Prime Minister, he's trusted 0:42:25.060 --> 0:42:27.780 Matt Keogh to make the right decision and Matt Keogh's 0:42:27.840 --> 0:42:28.880 failed the Prime Minister. 0:42:29.560 --> 0:42:34.029 Right. So, Andy, does the Minister feel like that? Does 0:42:34.090 --> 0:42:36.450 it feel like a better experience? Do you feel like you're... 0:42:36.730 --> 0:42:39.149 You're starting to move them here or is the wall 0:42:39.210 --> 0:42:39.850 as hard as ever? 0:42:41.730 --> 0:42:43.410 Well, to be honest, mate, it was a bit chalk 0:42:43.450 --> 0:42:43.870 and cheese. 0:42:43.910 --> 0:42:46.489 I saw the Minister, Minister Keogh, this morning early. 0:42:47.570 --> 0:42:50.880 My impression of him was left something to be desired. 0:42:50.920 --> 0:42:53.120 I was kind of met with a person that didn't 0:42:53.160 --> 0:42:56.260 really seem too interested in veterans, veterans. 0:42:55.900 --> 0:42:57.200 Issues or the portfolio. 0:42:58.020 --> 0:43:01.000 As opposed to when I was there for the meeting 0:43:01.020 --> 0:43:04.219 with the Prime Minister this afternoon, I was actually a 0:43:04.219 --> 0:43:07.280 bit surprised. I was kind of expecting much the same, 0:43:07.820 --> 0:43:11.620 but the Prime Minister was quite cordial, was very polite, 0:43:12.840 --> 0:43:16.359 was clearly trying hard to listen to the issues that 0:43:16.400 --> 0:43:18.920 we were raising. I think the biggest issue was he 0:43:18.960 --> 0:43:23.540 wasn't really understanding that the issues we were presenting from 0:43:23.660 --> 0:43:27.650 our perspective were really impacting the veteran community in a 0:43:27.670 --> 0:43:30.549 negative way. But he did give us an opportunity to 0:43:30.610 --> 0:43:33.290 discuss those in detail. I mean, I think we had 0:43:33.290 --> 0:43:36.230 15 minutes we were supposed to meet with him, but 0:43:36.250 --> 0:43:39.200 he gave us nearly an hour. So it was great 0:43:39.239 --> 0:43:42.440 to have that opportunity to present the issues in detail. 0:43:43.680 --> 0:43:46.600 and sort of walked away from that meeting feeling a 0:43:46.620 --> 0:43:49.840 bit more heard from the veteran community as opposed to 0:43:50.280 --> 0:43:54.489 the way I left the Minister Keogh's office early in 0:43:54.510 --> 0:43:54.830 the morning. 0:43:55.130 --> 0:43:57.790 So, I mean, again, Andy, I'll ask you and John, 0:43:57.810 --> 0:44:00.529 it's the same question, right? So, OK, Prime Minister's sitting 0:44:00.550 --> 0:44:02.720 around saying, look, obviously I'm not involved in every decision 0:44:02.780 --> 0:44:05.940 every day. We've told everyone, go find a saving somewhere. 0:44:06.670 --> 0:44:08.630 they went off in the Veterans Affairs and this is 0:44:08.690 --> 0:44:12.670 one of the savings that they found. Keogh's obviously argued 0:44:12.710 --> 0:44:14.310 up to the Prime Minister, look, I know these guys 0:44:14.350 --> 0:44:16.160 are really passionate, but let's be honest, if you hit 0:44:16.200 --> 0:44:19.480 the 5,000, all we're saying here is that somebody will 0:44:19.520 --> 0:44:21.739 double check, but they'll probably get let through and they 0:44:21.780 --> 0:44:24.620 can blast past the 5,000, right? You, of course, have 0:44:24.660 --> 0:44:28.339 plenty of evidence that dealing with DV8, not fun, not good, 0:44:28.500 --> 0:44:31.370 not fast, and if you are in the difference between... 0:44:31.430 --> 0:44:38.660 The $ 4, 999 and $ 5, 001, that's a world of pain that 0:44:38.680 --> 0:44:42.940 for people they cannot waste the time applying for. Is 0:44:42.980 --> 0:44:44.319 that kind of where we are? 0:44:46.000 --> 0:44:49.420 Yeah, look, ultimately, even the Prime Minister said this is 0:44:49.480 --> 0:44:52.130 not a financial issue, which we were a bit confused. 0:44:52.210 --> 0:44:53.190 I mean, at the end of the. 0:44:53.150 --> 0:44:56.900 Day, we're asking questions like, how do you see this 0:44:57.100 --> 0:45:00.650 decision or this paper supporting the veteran community? And that 0:45:00.690 --> 0:45:03.870 didn't come across clearly from the Prime Minister's office nor 0:45:03.910 --> 0:45:08.410 the Minister's office. It was quite concerning. It's sort of 0:45:08.430 --> 0:45:11.640 like they're trying to balance caps the way they see it. 0:45:11.660 --> 0:45:14.890 They see it as, you know... they're just swapping caps. 0:45:15.330 --> 0:45:18.140 And this doesn't make sense for us in the veteran community. 0:45:18.530 --> 0:45:20.319 What they're doing, and we can see, is it's going 0:45:20.340 --> 0:45:22.460 to cause a lot of pain. There's going to be 0:45:22.480 --> 0:45:24.860 a lot of veterans that are left out in the 0:45:24.900 --> 0:45:28.319 cold that won't seek treatment that they need. And it's 0:45:28.360 --> 0:45:31.080 going to leave, excuse me, a lot of families in 0:45:31.120 --> 0:45:31.820 trouble as well. 0:45:32.340 --> 0:45:32.560 Yeah. 0:45:32.660 --> 0:45:35.620 I mean, again, John, it's this situation where, again, if 0:45:35.660 --> 0:45:38.500 it's not financial, then what the hell are they fighting for? 0:45:40.820 --> 0:45:43.780 And it doesn't make any sense, Paul, is we're now 0:45:43.960 --> 0:45:47.620 arguing over a cap and we're not addressing the problem. 0:45:48.200 --> 0:45:49.120 It's quite simple. 0:45:49.320 --> 0:45:52.120 Minister Keogh scraps the cap. He does his job as 0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:54.280 Minister of Defence Personnel and fixes the problem. 0:45:55.700 --> 0:45:58.160 So, again, right, so obviously you want to be respectful, right? 0:45:58.180 --> 0:46:00.890 I mean, as citizens, let alone people that have defended 0:46:00.910 --> 0:46:03.940 the country, right? He gave you plenty of time, right? 0:46:04.160 --> 0:46:06.880 That sense of being heard is a big move of 0:46:06.920 --> 0:46:09.760 the ball, right? But it still doesn't change the nature 0:46:09.800 --> 0:46:12.589 of what's going on here, right? And, you know, you're 0:46:12.610 --> 0:46:14.950 not going to tell me the form of words because, again, 0:46:14.989 --> 0:46:17.170 you want to respect that this is an ongoing thing. 0:46:17.190 --> 0:46:20.870 You haven't got to resolution here tonight. Did you get 0:46:20.910 --> 0:46:25.009 a sense after leaving the Prime Minister that there's some 0:46:25.290 --> 0:46:27.529 cogs that are starting to turn? Did you get a 0:46:27.570 --> 0:46:29.410 sense of, look, boys, I'll call you back in a 0:46:29.450 --> 0:46:32.419 couple of weeks, I'll see you next time, or... you've 0:46:32.440 --> 0:46:34.400 had your chance, you've had your 15 minutes, it was 0:46:34.440 --> 0:46:36.620 all very polite, and because nobody yelled at each other, 0:46:37.000 --> 0:46:38.300 it'll be viewed as a success. 0:46:40.680 --> 0:46:43.200 We're trying to get the Prime Minister to understand that 0:46:43.219 --> 0:46:47.780 the failure point is Minister Keogh and DVA, the Department 0:46:47.800 --> 0:46:51.720 of Veterans Affairs, but he's put his trust right now 0:46:51.860 --> 0:46:53.989 in his minister and his public servants and not the 0:46:54.030 --> 0:46:57.570 veteran community, who've got the lived experience dealing with Department 0:46:57.590 --> 0:46:58.430 of Veterans Affairs. 0:46:59.690 --> 0:47:01.569 Yeah, because that's the thing, isn't it, Andy? Yeah, you go, 0:47:01.610 --> 0:47:02.130 you go, you go. 0:47:03.510 --> 0:47:07.399 Yeah, look, I left there feeling a bit like there's 0:47:07.420 --> 0:47:08.900 a bit of blood in the water, to be honest. 0:47:08.980 --> 0:47:11.640 I think, I don't know, you're a bit of a 0:47:11.680 --> 0:47:12.340 poker fan. 0:47:12.800 --> 0:47:15.320 Yeah, of course. I spotted a bit of a... a 0:47:15.340 --> 0:47:16.239 bit of a poker. 0:47:16.040 --> 0:47:18.300 Face, a bit of a tell on the Prime Minister 0:47:18.360 --> 0:47:19.900 and some of his aides, and I think they're a 0:47:19.900 --> 0:47:23.360 bit worried. The reality is this is not just a 0:47:23.400 --> 0:47:26.960 cap issue. To me, this is a values issue. This 0:47:27.020 --> 0:47:29.800 is about Australia and what we care about as Australians, right? 0:47:30.180 --> 0:47:33.489 So we're talking about if we send our soldiers overseas, 0:47:34.090 --> 0:47:36.590 the deal is if you get hurt and come home, 0:47:36.630 --> 0:47:37.489 we're going to look after you. 0:47:38.090 --> 0:47:40.790 That's the deal. That's what we signed up and agreed to. 0:47:41.360 --> 0:47:43.380 And that's what the government's agreed to and that's what 0:47:43.430 --> 0:47:45.690 they write on the bottom of our cards, whether it's 0:47:45.770 --> 0:47:47.530 a white card or gold card. 0:47:48.489 --> 0:47:51.930 Now, we're challenging them on that and saying, hang on, 0:47:52.290 --> 0:47:52.890 since when. 0:47:52.730 --> 0:47:55.650 Did you put $ 5, 000 as an arbitrary figure on that? 0:47:56.630 --> 0:48:00.160 I don't remember signing up at Kapuka and signing, I'll 0:48:00.200 --> 0:48:03.480 surrender everything up in two, including my life, if you'll 0:48:03.600 --> 0:48:05.880 support me if something goes wrong up to $ 5, 000. That's 0:48:05.900 --> 0:48:11.520 not the issue. I think we need to go deeper. 0:48:11.560 --> 0:48:15.259 The root cause of this is we're actually losing our 0:48:15.300 --> 0:48:19.960 identity as a nation. We're losing what it means to 0:48:20.000 --> 0:48:23.000 be an Australian. Like, Defence is going to have real 0:48:23.040 --> 0:48:27.240 issues with retention and recruitment. These are big issues that, 0:48:27.430 --> 0:48:31.630 in fact, the majority of Australians support. They want our 0:48:31.670 --> 0:48:35.070 veterans to be supported, and that's just not happening. 0:48:35.370 --> 0:48:37.830 Well, and my view is, to extend that point, right, 0:48:38.219 --> 0:48:42.169 There are very few things in our society that are non-negotiables, right? 0:48:43.110 --> 0:48:47.170 This is a non-negotiable, right? The idea of what the 0:48:47.230 --> 0:48:50.839 tale of the life lived by somebody who served their 0:48:50.860 --> 0:48:54.299 country and how continuous that support is Not just, you know, 0:48:54.340 --> 0:48:57.650 when it matters, not just when there's some cameras around, 0:48:57.910 --> 0:48:59.890 not just when the date tells us that's the time 0:48:59.930 --> 0:49:02.710 to officially care. No, it's the middle of the night 0:49:03.130 --> 0:49:07.469 on the 13th of March when somebody is in an 0:49:07.530 --> 0:49:11.370 absolute hole. And that's why we had a Royal Commission. 0:49:11.670 --> 0:49:14.109 It's why the response to it matters. But, John, we 0:49:14.130 --> 0:49:15.730 want to get the word out as hard as possible 0:49:15.770 --> 0:49:19.950 here to keep the public support and everyone watching want 0:49:20.060 --> 0:49:22.560 to be able to do something with their support. We're 0:49:22.580 --> 0:49:25.160 going to throw a QR code up on the screen 0:49:25.200 --> 0:49:28.100 right now. If you've got the ability to pause the channel, 0:49:28.260 --> 0:49:31.000 do that right now on your Foxtel box or if 0:49:31.020 --> 0:49:34.660 you're watching us on your website. Explain what happens when 0:49:34.719 --> 0:49:39.180 somebody signs up to this one. Sign up. 0:49:39.780 --> 0:49:42.100 Fair Care for Veterans will keep you in the loop 0:49:42.140 --> 0:49:44.700 of what we're doing. We're across all the socials and 0:49:44.719 --> 0:49:46.960 we are planning more events. There's been a massive reach 0:49:47.020 --> 0:49:49.400 out for today for people who would have liked to 0:49:49.460 --> 0:49:52.569 attend and actually place their medals on the ground in 0:49:52.610 --> 0:49:57.920 a show, Minister Keogh, that we believe that country, our government, 0:49:58.000 --> 0:50:00.120 is not keeping its promise to us when we signed 0:50:00.180 --> 0:50:00.740 up to serve. 0:50:01.320 --> 0:50:03.259 So get online, follow. 0:50:03.000 --> 0:50:05.060 Us, and the more veterans that speak up, the more 0:50:05.100 --> 0:50:06.540 chance we have of changing this cap. 0:50:06.820 --> 0:50:08.279 I hope your blokes don't mind me saying it, but 0:50:08.320 --> 0:50:10.319 on behalf of everyone watching, we love you. We thank 0:50:10.360 --> 0:50:11.859 you for not just what you've done but what you're 0:50:11.880 --> 0:50:13.839 doing right now. All the best, fellas. Good on you 0:50:13.860 --> 0:50:16.680 for maintaining the rage. We're here with you. All the best. Thanks, mate. 0:50:17.680 --> 0:50:18.129 Thanks, Paul. 0:50:18.330 --> 0:50:20.690 John and Andy, how good are they? Please follow on 0:50:20.730 --> 0:50:22.870 all of that. We'll show that again before we're done 0:50:23.150 --> 0:50:25.350 here on Paul Murray Live. More in a sec here. 0:50:26.150 --> 0:50:33.460 on News 24. I have taken a little more than 0:50:33.500 --> 0:50:35.439 an hour of your time, but I ask to take 0:50:35.480 --> 0:50:40.150 a couple of seconds longer here. Faircareforveterans.com.au, faircareforveterans.com.au. To the 0:50:40.190 --> 0:50:42.529 late debate, I promise I'll give you a minute back soon.