WEBVTT - Paul Murray Live | 14 July 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:05.160 From the Sky News Center. This is Paul Murray Live. 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:09.960 Well, good evening, James Borrow here tonight filling in for 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:13.240 Paul Murray on Paul Murray Live and all through the week. 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:15.840 And you know it's Monday Night, so you know what 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:20.360 that means. That's right, it's Monday Night. Fights with our 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:24.919 friends Senator Matt Canavan and Nicholas Reese coming up in 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.160 a little bit. So these are the rules. No sooks, 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:32.920 one lefty, no killer, all filler tonight on Paul Murray Live. 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.320 All right, let's get straight into it, and I want 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:40.400 to start with a little story about the Canberra bubble, 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:45.320 the Canberra of bureaucracy, and a little oopsie, or, as 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:49.519 they say in politics, a gaff. Yes, that's right, a gaff, 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:52.600 which is a term which has been famously defined as 0:00:52.760 --> 0:01:00.400 when someone in politics accidentally tells you the truth. Well, this, 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:04.679 this accidental truth telling, is an abstinute classic in terms 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.319 of telling us stuff we didn't already know, but which 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:12.920 it is already pretty nice to have confirmed. So here's 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:17.160 what happened. Well, it seems that an ABC Business reporter 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:20.800 put in a freedom of information request to the Department 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:25.040 of the Treasury asking for the briefings that Treasury prepared 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:29.160 for the incoming government at the last federal election. Now, 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:31.720 these are briefings that they do and they give to 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:36.199 whoever wins, whether they the incumbent, whether the challenger, whether 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:40.600 they're labor or liberal. It's basically a big booklet that says, 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:44.040 here's the state of play with each department, that goes 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:45.240 to the new ministers. 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:47.880 And guess what happened here. 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:53.120 Well, Treasury accidentally came through with the goods and they 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.280 gave our friend at the ABC a version of the 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.400 briefing that was not properly redacted. 0:01:58.480 --> 0:01:58.800 II. 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.480 It did not have all the juicy bits that they 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:04.200 didn't want people to know crossed out, and it. 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:06.880 Contains some pretty interesting truths. 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:11.839 Truth like, well, you know that that one point two 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:14.440 million dollar home building target that the government has been 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.359 promising that they were going to meet, Well, according to 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:22.720 the briefing, that's impossible. And all that being spending the 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.720 government's been doing well. According to the Treasury, it's going 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:32.440 to require higher taxes and if we weren't taxed enough already. Also, 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.400 they said they're going to need to cut spending as 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:39.800 well if they're ever going to get the budget back 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:43.000 into some sort of good health. Now we knew all 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.639 of this already, but this made for some fun moments. 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.760 At a press conference today with the Treasurer. 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:53.280 The Incoming Government's break makes an assessment of the government's policies, 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.320 your election commitments, and then gives advice to that implementation. 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:58.880 But this one says that the house and type would 0:02:58.919 --> 0:02:59.520 not be met. 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:02.000 What gives it? 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.639 It seems like the challenges in the sector are too 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:06.000 great for the government's policy. 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:06.720 Yeah. 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:08.800 I mean, first of all, you're responding to a subheading 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:13.120 in a document, a partial. You know, you're referring to 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:16.399 a Well, governments don't release the Incoming Government Brief. It's 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:18.720 been released in error, and that's you know, these things 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.000 happen from time to time. As I said before, I'm 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:23.080 pretty relaxed about it. 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:24.920 Yeah. 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.520 Did he look pretty relaxed about it to you anyway? 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:31.079 Sure you are a treasure now. The treasure also went 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.920 the full word salad after being asked this question. 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:42.000 You've always spoken about the importance and value of independent advice. 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:46.160 Treasury says you can't fix the budget without raising taxes 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:47.440 or slashing spending. 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:49.600 So are you open to this advice? 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.480 Straightforward question. But what do you reckon? Do you think 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.960 the treasure gave a straightforward answer. 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:01.280 Well, a couple of things about that. I mean, first 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.360 of all, you're responding to some headings in the advice 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:07.680 that we've got in the incoming government brief. What's happened 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:11.120 here is a Treasury official has sent those documents in error. 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:13.880 That sort of thing happens from time to time. We've 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:17.240 already made it really clear that we will need to 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.600 do more to meet our housing targets. So the priorities 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:25.720 which are being reported today are not you know, those 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:28.200 other sorts of things that I have mentioned before, including 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:30.240 at the National Press Club, I gave a whole speech 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:32.720 on how we need to do more to meet our 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.040 housing targets. We do need to do more to make 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:38.040 our budget more sustainable and our economy more productive. 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.600 Listen, Treasurer, the first rule of halls is when you're 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:45.120 in one, stop digging. I mean, that was some real 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:47.560 bart Simpson giving a book report there on a bookie 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:51.280 he didn't read kind of stuff now. Of course, hilariously, 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.680 the Treasury tried to quash the story and when they 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:58.840 released the data in error, they asked the ABC reported 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:03.080 to delete the e delete the incorrectly redacted brief, and 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:06.640 I gotta say good on the reporter, he said, fat chance. 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:09.880 But you know what, this all gets to a bigger 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:13.760 problem here, and that is the nature of truth and 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:18.719 government and what we the people, you and I are 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:21.120 allowed to know rather. 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:22.000 Than just assume. 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:24.200 Because you know, what's the funny thing here is that 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:28.599 what's been revealed here is the way the Canberra game works. 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:33.360 It's like an episode of Yes Minister or Utopia. Hide 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:37.359 the facts, hope we don't figure it out, redact the 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.400 things they don't want us to know, and let everyone 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:46.320 keep on doing what they're doing, ad infinitum. Now, this issue, 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:48.720 you know, the stuff that was in that report, not 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.840 going to beat the housing targets, spending too much money. 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.479 These aren't secrets, This is not These are not the 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:57.360 sort of things here that are. 0:05:57.279 --> 0:05:58.960 Like issues of national security. 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:03.000 You know, we're not talking about a document that accidentally 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:06.080 got released with the specifications of like our over the 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:09.320 horizon radar or what are we looking at acquiring in 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.760 the way of underwater drones? Or hell what face cream? 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:16.720 The Prime Minister uses to say, looking so youthful. No, 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:20.080 this stuff is the real basic bread and butter stuff 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:24.039 of government. Our tax money houses bread and butter stuff. 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:28.159 As I say, and I'm sorry, I mean this government, 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:33.000 the Albanezy labor government. Let's not forget they came to 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:37.360 power in twenty twenty two on the basis of saying, Hey, 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.640 we're gonna be transparent, we're gonna be open, we're gonna 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:43.679 be honest, we're not gonna hide stuff from you. And also, 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:48.760 by the way, we trust the advice of public servants. Well, 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:52.760 how about guys, I don't know, maybe putting this stuff 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:57.320 into practice that could be nice. And there's one more 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.880 thing too. You know, all of this is play out today. 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:05.880 The Treasurer had that Crimsworthy press conference, and one question 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:10.320 kept ringing in my head. Where or where is the 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:12.040 opposition in all of this? 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:16.600 Do we even have an opposition these days? I mean 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:18.640 this kind of issue. 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.480 We've got this big release in the incoming government briefing 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:26.119 that tells us the actual truth about the state of things, 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:30.000 not what Chalber's in Albaneze. He want us to think. Well, 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:31.800 I don't know, I mean, call me crazy, but it 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.560 seems like the sort of thing that Susan Lay might 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.560 have hopped on as an issue, or maybe the shadow 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:41.280 treasure ted O'Brien, Well, look he did to in his defense. 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:43.880 He set out a media release late in the morning 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:47.320 around eleven fourteen. But as far as I can tell, 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.520 and I watched the news all day, that was pretty 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:54.000 much all we heard from the opposition. I have to 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:57.840 wonder why wasn't everyone in shadow cabinet out hopping on 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:03.080 this issue, saying typical La, they're addicted to spending and 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:09.360 taxing you more. This is politics one oh one, and 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:13.680 I gotta say this opposition needs to spend less time 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:18.200 talking about itself and start coming up with solutions for 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:23.600 in Australia that, as that leaked briefing reveals, is going 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:28.040 badly off track. Anyway, enough of that, let's move on 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.400 to China. This is the big story of the day, 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:34.880 and you know, in some senses this may be the 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:36.439 defining story of the century. 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:37.600 Now. 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.839 After landing in Beijing earlier, this evening tomorrow is, by 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:44.120 the way, the big day. Anthony albines, he gets to 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:48.400 see Jijin Ping again. And you gotta feel bad for 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.839 the Prime Minister because this was all supposed to be 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:56.280 such a big and special event. Yes, the Prime Minister 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.480 was supposed to go to sleep tonight and is absolutely 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:03.920 not bugged hotel suite with visions of being called a 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:08.800 handsome boy dancing in his head. But Albanize's apparent pivot 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:12.400 to China could be knocked off balance by some very 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:16.880 recent history and his own doing. What to remind you 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:20.840 of this little moment from the last federal election campaign, 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.800 remember this when the Prime Minister barged onto ABC Talk 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:27.920 radio in Darwin at four to twelve pm in the 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:32.520 afternoon or because he was trying to beat Peter Dutt 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:37.520 into the punch about an announcement about the Port of Darwin. 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:41.680 Could you write the headline for me on this announcement today. 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:46.600 Australia needs to own the Port of Darwin. 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.160 So are you buying back the lease of the Port 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:49.880 of Darwin or not. 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.960 Well, what we're doing is trying to get to say 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:58.040 if there's a private buyer through particularly superannuaction tons that 0:09:58.080 --> 0:09:59.319 we've had discussions with. 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.560 Three years Prime Minister to deal with the port lace. 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.160 What would you say to local voters who might say 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:07.600 this is an election stunt. 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.440 That is something that we have had a consistent view on. 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.080 Well, they had a consistent view on it, not that 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.360 they did anything about it for the first three years 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.320 that they were in government, and it somehow only became 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:25.440 an issue in the minutes, the literal minutes before Peter Dutton, 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.880 the then opposition leader, was supposed to announce the coalition's 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.800 own policy on the Port of Darwin. You got to 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.800 ask why didn't they do something about it before? But hey, 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:38.880 you know what they say, no time like the present. 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:43.040 Now this seemed like a clever bit of campaigning. But 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:48.679 now this has come back to bite Albinizi. The whole 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.319 thing seems to be putting a little bit of a damper. 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:51.839 That's right. 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:54.920 On his trip, there was a little warning of the 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:58.160 Chinese social media from a Chinese social media influencer today 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:02.640 who you bet cleared this post with head office. There's 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.040 a guy called Lou wen Jing, and he used to 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:09.160 edit a Chinese propaganda rag called Voice of the Strait, 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:12.480 and he put it out there on Chinese social media 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:18.600 that any attempt to retake the port could provoke countermeasures. 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:23.600 His words, he has written, quote, if the Australian side 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:27.480 insists on tearing up the lease agreement, the Chinese side 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:33.800 may take countermeasures such as restricting Australian companies market access 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:38.640 in China or tightening imports of key resources such as 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:42.959 iron ore unquote. Well, you know, we've seen this movie 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.120 before and we all remember how that all played out 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:49.080 under the Morrison government. But it seems like now that 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.520 poor Anthony Albanezi's in the chair all this foreign policy stuff, 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:55.960 it's really hard and he can't seem to catch a 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.800 break because guess what, He's been copying it for being 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:03.199 too soft on the Chinese. Now he's copying it from 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:05.440 China for being too tough on him. 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:06.400 You can't win. 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:09.880 The Prime Minister was asked about this in a press 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.040 conference in Shanghai today. 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.120 Can I ask you, are you concerned about that kind 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:17.680 of blowback if you go through with your election commitment. 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:22.000 The answer to that is no. We had a very 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:26.360 clear position that we want the port to go into 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:31.480 Australian ownership. We're being clear about it, we're going orderly 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:36.160 about it, and we will go through that process. 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.479 The whole press conference here in Shanghai was absolutely fascinating 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:43.920 because the Prime Minister was flanked by business leader leaders 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.840 like Twiggy Forrest, all eager to do more business in China. 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.880 But the big elephant in the room, the fact that 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:55.200 China is a totalitarian state with aims to dominate the Pacific, 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.080 if not the globe. Well that could be ignored. And 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.000 I have to say credit to this journalist in the 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.880 press pack who asked this question picking up on the 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:08.680 theme that we talked about last night. That is just 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:12.160 what and are not the actions of a friend? 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.160 Well, is your message about the circumnavigation of Australia by 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:20.480 the Chinese flotilla, live fire drills and suspected surveillance ships, 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:21.840 no watching talents, mandsaber? 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:23.120 Is this an actual friend? 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:30.720 Well? With regard to the second question, that would be 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:35.680 nothing unusual that has happened in the past, And I'll 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.320 continue to assert Australia's national interest as I do. 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:47.520 Nothing unusual that has happened in the past. Well, okay, 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:49.760 I mean, look, lots of things have happened in the past. 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:52.680 Pearl Harbor happened in the past, the Black Death happened 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:56.360 in the past. Past Steel Day which the French celebrate today, 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.560 that happened in the past. But that doesn't mean we 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:04.360 just brush these things aside. I mean this answer here 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:08.240 that the Prime Minister gave here is disgraceful and it 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.040 is part of this incredible pattern that he seems to 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:15.959 have of any time China does anything that is offensive 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:19.600 to Australian interests, to Western interests, to the interests of 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:24.880 liberal democracies, he says, ah, well, you know, stuff kind 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:29.040 of happens. You know, ships surfcum navigate Australia all the time, 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.320 ship's fire off missiles all the time. These sorts of 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.320 things happen. But of course when it's the West, when 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:37.360 it's the United States, when it's Donald Trump, who will 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:42.240 talk about in a moment, well that that is not 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.960 the action of a friend anyway. I don't know if 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.560 the Sky News app by the way, download it if 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:50.920 you haven't already, because it is absolutely great. I don't 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.040 know if that app works in China. But the traveling 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:58.080 press pack also noticed another thing we talked about last night, 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.440 and that is the subtle poss of labor towards China 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.520 and away from the US. Though whether that's now going 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:10.360 to happen with Darwin on the table, we'll see. 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:12.480 Just to go back to what you were saying before 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:16.640 about stability with China, chooting ping president, she seems to 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:20.160 be positioning China as a more stable alternative? Is that 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.480 an assessment that you share, and that's an alternative to 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:24.000 the US to. 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:30.000 Kind of I don't draw alternatives. What I do is 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.040 I want to see a stable and secure region. I 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:37.520 think that's in the interest of everyone in the Indo Pacific. 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:41.440 But that's an approach I take to global politics as well. 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:49.120 Stable, that's prime Minister. Do you understand what is going 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:49.760 on here? 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:50.440 All right? 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:55.960 Stability is not good if that means that China winds 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.560 up dominating the Pacific, because you know what, that's not 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:03.840 good for us here in Australia. Stability is actually quite 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:07.960 bad if it means that China's strength and power winds 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:11.960 up growing in the Pacific. What's necessary here, I think, 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:15.280 is to understand the fact that sometimes in life you 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:19.000 need to pick your friends, stick with them and push back. 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.680 That doesn't necessarily mean you're going to fight a war, 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:25.680 but it does mean you're going to stand up for 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:31.040 Australian interests. Australian interests which are closely tied to not 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:35.480 only the United States but of liberal democracies around the world, 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:39.360 and included in that has to be the country of Taiwan, 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:43.520 which is of course under constant threat from the People's 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.880 Republic of China. Now this is a thing, This is 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:48.360 not Prime Minister. 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:48.960 I hope you're. 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:54.520 Watching a both sides issue. You cannot both sides this question. 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.760 And I want to bring this in here because earlier 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:01.440 today I had a chat to John Lee. Now he's 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:04.040 a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and he is, 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.760 among other things, was the Foreign ad Minister's lead advisor 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:12.119 on the twenty seventeen Foreign policy white Paper. Now I 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.520 talked to him for the Daily Telegraph newspaper and you 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.920 can read more about this in tomorrow's paper. But this 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:20.359 line he told me struck me and I wanted to 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:21.000 share it with you. 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:21.480 Now. 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.320 John Lee told me quote, it is one thing to 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:31.639 assert Australian diplomatic independence China, not Trump's America. Is the 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:36.479 dangerous and more serious structural disruption to regional and global 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:41.800 peace and stability that Anthony Albinizi seems more comfortable with 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:46.719 Chinese policy rather than US policy is something he needs 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:51.359 to explain to the Australian electorate. And moreover, John Lee 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.680 said there was a bipartisan mindset. Only a few years 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:58.720 ago that Australia needed to diversify its economic interests away 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.840 from China for the national resilience and as a hedge 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:07.280 against Chinese economic coercion which will occur again in the future. 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:15.520 Anthony Albanisi, he said, seems to have abandoned that position. Well, 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.399 how true that is it? I mean, seriously, don't you 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:20.399 remember when COVID happened. And I don't want to talk 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.600 about COVID, but when that happened, that was the big 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.760 thing that we talked about. We said, universities, get off 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.560 the drip of Chinese students, diversify yourself, everybody's supply chains, 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.879 don't get everything from China. The risk is just to 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:38.240 be everything coming from China. Well, we know the position 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:40.119 that puts you into it. That was the position that 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:42.800 we were put in a week one. As a result 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:44.239 of that, we said, as a nation, we're not going 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:48.040 to do that anymore. But apparently here we are, and 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.560 without any consultation or taking it to the election or 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.879 having a you know, national conversation. To use one of 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:58.399 my least favorite expressions, we are going all in on China. 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:04.160 More trade with China, not less. Okay, Well, let's give 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:06.800 the Prime Minister for a moment the benefit of the 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:10.399 doubt on this, because he does seem to be stock 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:14.440 in this old mindset that says if the West, if 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:20.120 Australia just has enough free trade with China, China will 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:24.600 become a freer and more peaceful nation. Well, this is 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:29.480 a mistake that has driven decades of China policy. Through 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:34.280 allowing Beijing to join the WTO, through the aftermath the 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:37.480 TMN Square disaster, to the great cover up around COVID 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:41.879 and everything else from influenced buying scandals to the theft 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:46.560 of intellectual property and so much more. We know that 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:51.880 this whole idea that if we just expose the totalitarian 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:57.480 Chinese communist government to Western liberal democracy and trade with 0:19:57.560 --> 0:19:59.760 them and the people get rich, whether they're going to 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:03.560 become or liberal, that hasn't worked. It has been just 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:07.879 the opposite. This was a fantasy that we would and 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:11.280 in fact what has happened, honestly, if you think about it, 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:15.560 is we've become a bit more like China than China 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.560 has become like us. And you don't need to go 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:20.800 very far to see examples of that. You know, we 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:23.600 saw that start during COVID. We see it today with 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:27.760 the increasing realms of Internet surveillance and the e Safety 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:31.240 Commissioner and the Great Australian Firewall that's coming our way. 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:34.240 Although this is a sort of a fantasy, though we've 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:35.760 seen this fantasy for decades. 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:36.280 It has been. 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:39.240 Espoused for decades by the likes of academics such as 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:43.359 Hugh White, and this notion was on full display today 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:49.040 when Anthony Albanizi addressed the Shanghai business launch. Cameras weren't 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:53.000 allowed in apparently, but he said, quote, this is Albanesi speaking. 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:56.000 He said, quote, there is no fixed model for a 0:20:56.080 --> 0:21:00.639 stabilized relationship. There's that word stable again. Our job is 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:03.879 to make sure that we manage our relationship so that 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:10.800 we can contribute to regional and global peace and prosperity. Yet, 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.879 I ask you what is missing from that statement, which 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:18.960 weirdly sounds like it could have been written by the CCP, 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:24.400 by ggpings Comm's people. Tell you what's missing? Any talk 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:28.200 of what it means for us to be a liberal democracy, 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:32.720 upholding liberal values, the sort of thing we are supposed 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:36.600 to do in the Pacific and around the globe. It's 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:39.160 what our alliance with the US is supposed to be 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:44.200 not just a security arrangement, but an alliance of people 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:48.600 and nations with shared values. Now, yeah, I know that 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:51.119 Donald Trump tests all of this a bit. I'm not 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:54.800 going to argue that now. But again, Australia, we have 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:59.000 to ask ourselves what are the alternatives. Alliances are not 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:02.520 a one white way street. An alliance has a much 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:07.680 deeper philosophical and strategic meaning. It is a mutual commitment 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:13.560 to the defense of our shared values. And as we know, 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.000 and this has been going on since before Trump, the 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:22.280 world is dividing into totalitarian and free states. Again, this 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:24.639 has been happening for a long time now, since the 0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:28.400 end of the Cold War. And Australia and the Albanese 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:32.280 government cannot walk both sides of the fence any longer. 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:35.560 We will as a country have to make a choice. 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:39.440 We will have to ask ourselves what happens if Taiwan 0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:42.960 is invaded and the US has a right to ask 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:48.159 us as an alliance partner for support. Remember, if China 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:53.359 dominates specific it is uniformly bad for US. This is 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:58.120 not a good outcome. Anthony ALBANESEI talks about Australian values, 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:02.320 but he does not seem to know what they are anymore, 0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:06.040 and he certainly can articulate them. This is why this 0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:09.640 Labor Prime Minister ironically seems so focused on the market 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:11.879 and free trade in his talks with China, because I 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:15.080 guess that's easier. But Labor also, of course, has a 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:19.560 long tradition of anti Americanism and isolationism that is coming 0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:22.040 to the fore. We saw this the other day with 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:25.840 Albanisius John Kurtin lecture, and now we are seeing it 0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:31.680 repeat again at a very dangerous time. Jijinping has us 0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:34.480 just where he wants us, and he must be laughing 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:37.240 as he sees the fault lines appear in an alliance 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:40.600 officially founded by Robert Menzies back in nineteen fifty one. 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:42.640 I just cannot. 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:48.080 Believe that Albo is falling for all the false flattery. Now, 0:23:48.359 --> 0:23:50.919 Matt Canavan and Nikree is gonna be coming with me 0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:51.560 after the break. 0:23:51.640 --> 0:24:00.640 Don't go anywhere, did my guys pull marihi Aunt, Gambia 0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:03.840 in South Australia is the next location for a town Sunday, 0:24:03.880 --> 0:24:05.800 the twenty seventh of July, and I'd love you to 0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:08.560 join me in the audience ourtown at skynews dot com. 0:24:08.560 --> 0:24:10.399