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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective sy aside of life. The average person is never

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Speaker 1: exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

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Speaker 1: This is Part two of my chat with Christy Charles,

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Speaker 1: who's the sister of Rachelle Charles, the twenty three year

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Speaker 1: old woman who has murdered in two thousand and one,

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Speaker 1: a murder which remains unsolved to this day, along with

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Speaker 1: investigative journalists Ashley Hand, who's been working with Christie on

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Speaker 1: a podcast called Dear Rochelle. In Part one, we've got

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Speaker 1: an overview of the murder. In Part two, we speak

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Speaker 1: about some of the things uncovered whilst looking at Rochelle's murder,

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Speaker 1: which I hope, like Christy and Ashley, will put pressure

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Speaker 1: on people to ensure justice is finally done. Murders like

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Speaker 1: Rochelle's should not go unsolved. The podcast has been out

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Speaker 1: for a little bit. Now are you happy with the

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Speaker 1: impact that Dear Rochelle is having the getting your sister's

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Speaker 1: murder out into the public.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't be happier. It's bigger than I ever thought

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Speaker 2: was possible, and the coverage has been incredible. The marketing team,

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Speaker 2: the whole team Rochelle, the team behind ash and just

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Speaker 2: the reach that it's getting and has gotten is incredible.

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Speaker 1: And that is what you hope to achieve with getting

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Speaker 1: involved in the project, like the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Yep, it's fitting for her. Just yeah she always you

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Speaker 2: just so go hard to go home. I think they've

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Speaker 2: definitely done that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, it's been And what about you, Ashley? It

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Speaker 1: certainly had an impact, it looked at all the media

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Speaker 1: coverage of it, and people who are people are literally

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Speaker 1: asking me questions on the street about it, So it's

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Speaker 1: got people's attention.

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Speaker 3: That's great to hear.

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Speaker 4: I know, when you're working on a story like this,

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Speaker 4: it feels like you're carrying this secret for so long.

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Speaker 4: Because of the sensitive nature of the investigation, you couldn't

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Speaker 4: really tell that many friends or family because we were

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Speaker 4: trying to keep it under wraps. And so when it

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Speaker 4: was finally out there, it was a bit overwhelming. I've

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Speaker 4: got to say, just to see it in print and

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Speaker 4: everywhere and finally know it's out there. But I just

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Speaker 4: mainly felt really proud and finally, this is it.

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Speaker 3: This is what we've been working for. Let's go. So

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Speaker 3: maybe more hard work starts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll get getting the impact. And quite frankly, I

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Speaker 1: think it puts pressure on the person responsible for this,

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Speaker 1: and I say, to that person now talking to you guys,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't like to be that person. Because there's one

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Speaker 1: thing I'm very sure of, having worked homicide as long

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Speaker 1: as long as I did. If an investigation gets a

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Speaker 1: lot of media attention, there's a too fold benefit the

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Speaker 1: way I see it, that you get the public interested

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Speaker 1: in it. Public are interested, politicians are interested, and police

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Speaker 1: properly resource the investigation. And if it's been sitting in

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Speaker 1: a cardboard box or sitting in brief boxes, on the

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Speaker 1: desk somewhere. They tend to get open when there's some

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Speaker 1: public public interest in a case. So I'm sure the

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Speaker 1: type of exposure that dear Rachelle is getting across the

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Speaker 1: police will be looking at it. The other thing that

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Speaker 1: I think important, Christy, you might understand this, but it

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Speaker 1: makes that Rachelle's life is not forgotten, and she's not forgotten.

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Speaker 1: Here we are over twenty years down the track and

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Speaker 1: we're still talking about the type of person she is.

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Speaker 1: Does that help you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty empowering. I feel really good about it.

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Speaker 2: I feel like, oh, you know, we're giving her a voice,

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Speaker 2: and I think that that's really important because we've been

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Speaker 2: quite for so long. And yeah, there's someone out there

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Speaker 2: listening to this who's feeling very uncomfortable about all this.

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Speaker 2: I think that's incredible.

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Speaker 1: One percent. I like to think the pressure that person's feeling.

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Speaker 1: And there's no statute of limitations on murder investigations, and

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Speaker 1: you hear about it all the time, the unsolved homicide

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Speaker 1: locking people up twenty years, thirty years down the track,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, it's not going to be forgotten. And I'm

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Speaker 1: sure they don't like the fact that it's back in

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Speaker 1: the attention of the media.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, can I ask you a question about that, just

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Speaker 4: as your experience as a homicide to active for so long,

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Speaker 4: what happens to a person when something like this drops

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Speaker 4: as someone that is guilty, that thinks that they've got

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Speaker 4: away with murder something so serious for so many years

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Speaker 4: and they think they're undetected. What happens when it starts

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Speaker 4: exploding in the media Again, have you ever seen that

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Speaker 4: from behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: I've seen it, and I've spoken to people that we've

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Speaker 1: done that too. And I was going to say it,

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Speaker 1: if people are now listening to this podcast and Dear

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Speaker 1: Rochelle podcast and all the interest in the media, have

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Speaker 1: a look at the person that you might be watching

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Speaker 1: or listening or talking about this, because a person responsible

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Speaker 1: for this will act strange. Now, that person might, if

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Speaker 1: it comes on TV or it comes up on radio

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Speaker 1: or whatever, might want to disengage from the conversation not

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Speaker 1: talk about it, or they might talk about it incessantly.

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Speaker 1: But whatever's going on, the person responsible with all this

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Speaker 1: exposure is going to act a little bit strange, and

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Speaker 1: people that are close to that person will look at

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Speaker 1: the person think why are we getting a reaction from

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Speaker 1: that person because we're talking about this crime, because they

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Speaker 1: will carry the guilt, will that will sit with them

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Speaker 1: and they'll be thinking, well, I've got away with it,

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Speaker 1: and now the pressures on. So I think it creates

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Speaker 1: a good opportunity for something to break and then the public,

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Speaker 1: the public should if someone then forgot suspicion about someone,

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Speaker 1: just someone that's ACKed in a little bit differently, when

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Speaker 1: all this talk is about, dear Rochelle, okay, pass that

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Speaker 1: onto the police. And I point this out that if

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Speaker 1: you know someone's committed an offense and you don't come forward,

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Speaker 1: there's a strong likelihood that you're committing in a serious

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Speaker 1: offense too. And these cases don't get forgotten. You can

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Speaker 1: see Christy's here and I've got a sense of you

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Speaker 1: enough to know you're not going to forget this, forget

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Speaker 1: this case. So the pressure, pressure is going to be on.

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Speaker 1: There's a reward out there, there's a whole range of things.

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Speaker 1: But if they've got if the public have got information,

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Speaker 1: they need to come forward, is no excuse not to

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Speaker 1: come forward, and that could just be that little piece.

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Speaker 1: But for the person responsible, yeah, I hope you're feeling

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Speaker 1: pretty nervous at the moment. You should feel nervous at

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Speaker 1: the moment because at any time there could be a

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Speaker 1: knock at the door, and that could be the police,

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Speaker 1: and there goes your life. You're locked away for the

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Speaker 1: rest of your life. So long answer to a short question.

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Speaker 1: But I'm passionate about this. I think this is the

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Speaker 1: type of pressure that should be applied to people. You

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Speaker 1: should not be able to get away with murder.

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Speaker 3: So couldn't agree more.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my little pitch, and let's hope the person

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Speaker 1: is listening to it. And in answer further to your question,

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Speaker 1: do the people involved in these crimes listen to the

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Speaker 1: media one hundred percent seen it and time and time again,

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Speaker 1: and they can say I know, I'm not interested. They'll

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Speaker 1: be listening and they'll be panicking, and they might make

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Speaker 1: a stupid move. So this is the type of pressure that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and should their family and friends be asking them questions?

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Speaker 3: What should they do?

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Speaker 1: I think? So, if I was sitting beside someone that

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Speaker 1: I suspect of a murder, why are you reacting that way?

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Speaker 1: What's triggering? Why don't you want to talk about this case?

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Speaker 1: Or why do you overreact every time it gets mentioned

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Speaker 1: and it will get mentioned like the public or interest

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Speaker 1: in it now, so it will get mentioned, so you

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Speaker 1: don't have to have to front the person. But if

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Speaker 1: you've got concerns, pass the information on the police. And

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Speaker 1: it can be done discreetly too. It can be passed

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Speaker 1: on so the person doesn't know where the where the

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Speaker 1: information is coming from. There's so many different ways that

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Speaker 1: this information can be passed on. So I get excited

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Speaker 1: sitting down with people like yourselves so they're doing something

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Speaker 1: like this like I did with Headley, because that is

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Speaker 1: making the difference. That is the way these difficult crimes

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Speaker 1: get solved by putting the pressure on. So I'm a

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Speaker 1: big believer in using the media. If we want to

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Speaker 1: call podcast media, which is a form of it, now

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Speaker 1: we can use it in a positive way. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's great, Like you could have gone on

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Speaker 1: it could have been an article in the paper or whatever,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't get that sort of in, that buy

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Speaker 1: in that the public get when they're listening to a

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Speaker 1: podcast and listening to it unfold and they're all coming up.

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Speaker 1: Everyone thinks they're a detective. So everyone's coming up going

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Speaker 1: I think it's this person, that person but it just

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Speaker 1: creates that environment. And when it's all said and done,

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Speaker 1: what are we doing it four is to get justice

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Speaker 1: for Rachelle and so the pressure. So, yeah, have a

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Speaker 1: look at the person that's acting strange and start to

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Speaker 1: question why they're acting.

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Speaker 4: Strange and what would you say, Gary to someone that

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Speaker 4: may be close to this person, either back then or

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Speaker 4: now that might feel afraid.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's protections that can be put in place, and

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Speaker 1: I can understand the concerns and being afraid, but you

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Speaker 1: could approach the police in the strictness of confidence and

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Speaker 1: the information wouldn't get out and the protections would be

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Speaker 1: put in place. So I do understand the fear that

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Speaker 1: people might might have in pointing the finger at someone

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Speaker 1: or a concerning but there are measures that can be

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Speaker 1: put in in place to protect that person, so you

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Speaker 1: don't need to be fearful and it can be treated

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Speaker 1: with the strictness of confidence. So anyway, Chrissy, sorry, Ashley

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Speaker 1: and I are falling back into our old rolls. Actually

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Speaker 1: has been a journalist and we've completely lost track. Oh

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Speaker 1: that's right, this is a this is a podcast. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we'll get back to it. But yeah, I think they're

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Speaker 1: important important messages. So, yeah, what and there's so much

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Speaker 1: that's been uncovered in the investigation that's been done on

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Speaker 1: the podcast. What are the things that you guys think

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Speaker 1: are interesting? And we don't know, we haven't got time

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Speaker 1: to go through the full details, but just a couple

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Speaker 1: of things that have uncovered that excite you ll have

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Speaker 1: got you curious, that have flowed out from what's been

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Speaker 1: done on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: I think that the warping shaw and the significance of

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Speaker 2: the warping shaw is incredibly important. You want to add, Yeah, well.

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Speaker 4: I'm I'm really curious and about the key pieces of

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Speaker 4: evidence and one of them, just for example, the tank.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the.

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Speaker 4: Reason because so many experts, former detectives have given us

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Speaker 4: insights into the mind of a killer and the mind

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Speaker 4: of someone who disposes of a body and what the

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Speaker 4: process they go through. And so when we look at

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Speaker 4: the tank, which was the initial possibly the initial place

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Speaker 4: where the killer had intended to hide Rochelle's body, but

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Speaker 4: that didn't work out for one of many reasons, which

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Speaker 4: may have been that the concrete lid was too heavy

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Speaker 4: for one person potentially or they couldn't slide it off

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Speaker 4: for whatever reason, or there wasn't enough room in the

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Speaker 4: tank to fit Rachelle, so they've resorted to the fire.

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Speaker 4: So I'm interested to ask you if you think the

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Speaker 4: significant of the tank or if you think that the

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Speaker 4: tank is significant, because you when we went down there,

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Speaker 4: that's when it really had an impact on.

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Speaker 3: Me, thinking it's nighttime.

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Speaker 4: You wouldn't be able to see the tank at nighttime,

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Speaker 4: and who what are the chances that someone would just

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Speaker 4: stumble upon this tank? So the thinking is that somebody

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Speaker 4: knew that the tank was there, so they had to

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Speaker 4: have been familiar with the area.

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Speaker 3: And you said that to.

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Speaker 4: Me in one of our first interviews when we were

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Speaker 4: down there as well, that why are you so confident

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Speaker 4: that the killer you.

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Speaker 2: That area find And I remember it's well, I mean,

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Speaker 2: we couldn't find it when we went down there, but

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Speaker 2: it's it's cleared a lot more than it was back

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Speaker 2: then and when because I used to go in there

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Speaker 2: and sit in there, which some people.

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Speaker 1: So it's a concrete tank in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, concrete tank.

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Speaker 4: So it had at the time a concrete thick, concrete lid,

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Speaker 4: and but that lid has now been replaced with a

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Speaker 4: plastic lid and the ground kind of So it's not

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Speaker 4: obvious now, but at the time, from what I understand,

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Speaker 4: you describe it because you've seen it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you had to duck in under a branch and

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Speaker 2: it was a lot of room to.

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Speaker 1: Be in there. And it's a public bush land.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty close to the road the National Park. It's

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Speaker 2: behind the tree line and you'd have to sort of

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Speaker 2: duck in. And I didn't realize that you could get

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Speaker 2: to it from the back. And I think that's what

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Speaker 2: the killer did, that they have taken her behind.

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Speaker 1: And then is it on the beach side the road?

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Speaker 4: Okay, so it's on the eastern side of GIRoA Road

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Speaker 4: or the Crooked River Road seven mile Beach GIRoA.

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Speaker 1: That runs all the way down, Okay.

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Speaker 3: The back road to Naura.

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Speaker 1: I know the road. I a couple of things and

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about the experts you've you've got working on

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Speaker 1: the on the podcast. A couple of things that jump

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Speaker 1: out to me with this, the circumstances surrounding because quite

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Speaker 1: often you can work out a lot by the manner

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Speaker 1: and the way in which the the victim's body has

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Speaker 1: been disposed of. This to me doesn't look like a

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Speaker 1: planned crime. It looks like such a situation that's escalated.

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Speaker 1: That's the sense I get at it, A get of it.

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Speaker 1: I'm also a starting point with when you're looking at

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Speaker 1: why has a body been disposed in this location? I

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Speaker 1: agree with what you touched on where other people have

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Speaker 1: said it's an area that familiar with Quite often when

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Speaker 1: people are disposing bodies, they go there and dispose it

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Speaker 1: because they're familiar with the are. If someone knew about

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Speaker 1: the tank and discreet tank, it would be a good

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Speaker 1: place to locate the body. To me, it seems strange

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Speaker 1: because we're talking one hundred kilometers from the location to Giraa.

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Speaker 1: There's a risk associated with driving a car if you

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Speaker 1: have someone that's a body in the car, so there's

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Speaker 1: obvious risk there to go all that way out and

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Speaker 1: then dispose of a body in the manner To me,

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Speaker 1: it strikes as panic. You've set the body alight. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's more likelihood that someone's going to discover the body.

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Speaker 1: If you light a fire, you're destroying potentially forensic evidence.

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Speaker 1: But there seems to be a panic about it. So

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Speaker 1: it's someone that didn't plan it and escalate, just escalated.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a reasonable case theory that if it's

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Speaker 1: right near the tank, that that was the intended intended location.

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Speaker 1: And then the car. Is there any suggestion that the

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Speaker 1: Rochelle's car was used to convey what basis was?

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Speaker 4: There were three there were sightings or separate sighting four people,

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Speaker 4: three cars, so a couple in one car. There were

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Speaker 4: four four witnesses had cited a car similar to Rochelle's,

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Speaker 4: if not one witness who knew his Holden's described basically

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Speaker 4: Rachelle's car so.

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Speaker 2: Pretty much said it was it was a VB commodoel

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Speaker 2: but it looked like a v H which is exactly

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Speaker 2: what it is, because it's a VB Commodore. But it's

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Speaker 2: got the VH lights and grill.

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Speaker 1: You're the expert here.

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Speaker 5: He described it on the on the vehicle.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, okay, Well that's interesting, isn't it. And that

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Speaker 1: if her car was there taken to dispose of Rachelle's

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Speaker 1: body there and then driven all the way back to

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Speaker 1: hopefully just the hotel, all the way back there, okay.

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Speaker 4: And the thinking is as well that perhaps they were

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Speaker 4: already down there.

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Speaker 2: So that's when it escalated.

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Speaker 4: Chris Illingsworth, who is a criminal profiler, that has given

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Speaker 4: us insights into what she believes happened. Her thinking is

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Speaker 4: that she was probably killed and the incident has had

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Speaker 4: and closer to Jiroa as opposed to back in Bargo.

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Speaker 4: But because there are those missing nine hours and there

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Speaker 4: are no independent witnesses or any forensic evidence to show

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Speaker 4: where Rochelle was killed, that's one of the biggest mysteries

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Speaker 4: of this case. We don't know where she was killed,

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Speaker 4: so we only know where she was found.

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Speaker 1: It's a reasonable and I know Chris and she's very

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Speaker 1: experienced a reasonable assumption that escalated down there because it's

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Speaker 1: a long way to go to dispose of a.

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Speaker 5: Body where expanse of bush land, between.

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Speaker 1: So many other locations where a body could be disposed of.

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Speaker 1: So again that sound sounds reasonable.

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Speaker 4: But then still you would wouldn't You still expect though,

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Speaker 4: that they go to a place like Mick Ashwood says

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Speaker 4: that they're familiar with. So again, what takes this person

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Speaker 4: to find that tank or to go looking for that tank.

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Speaker 4: I think you're right though, and I definitely do believe

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Speaker 4: that it's more likely that the murder wasn't planned, perhaps

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Speaker 4: something else was planned. That's my feeling on it that

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Speaker 4: it's probably more likely that whoever took Rochelle that night,

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Speaker 4: whoever met up with her, probably planned something, maybe some

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Speaker 4: sort of sexual encounter, and had hoped that it would

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Speaker 4: go it would be consensual, or maybe that already planned

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Speaker 4: to Yeah, something so sinister. Maybe they'd planned something sinister already,

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Speaker 4: but it wasn't as bad as murder. I'm not really sure.

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Speaker 4: We're never going to really know that, are we.

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Speaker 1: Well, hopefully we will, Hopefully we'll, But I suppose it's

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Speaker 1: speculation if went there with an intent, that that intent

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Speaker 1: didn't play out. Twenty three year old girl like Rachelle,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking that's yeah. Is there a suggestion that it

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Speaker 1: was sexually motivated the crime?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: What brings people to that conclusion?

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Speaker 2: Well, she was she didn't have any clothes on from

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Speaker 2: the waist down right, And yeah, we've had every detective

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Speaker 2: that's worked on it said that they believe it was

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Speaker 2: sexually motivated. Yeah, we don't have any evidence of rape

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Speaker 2: or sexual assault, but that could be as a result

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Speaker 2: of the fire.

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Speaker 1: What about the forensic examination of the car? Did that

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Speaker 1: reveal anything? You've indicated in part one that your assessment,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's a very sound assessment that she

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Speaker 1: wasn't the person that parked the car there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So the police have bits of the car, they

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Speaker 2: have the steering wheel, they have a bit of carpet,

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Speaker 2: They've got bits and pieces that they took off the car,

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Speaker 2: but they weren't able to lift any DNA off any

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Speaker 2: of that. The sheet that they found nearby, they believe

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Speaker 2: that was used, however, that was contaminated by a police officer.

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Speaker 2: So the DNA found on that.

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Speaker 1: Was it is? Has there been a recent forensic review?

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Speaker 1: Do you know if there's no?

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Speaker 5: But I've asked for it because.

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Speaker 1: That's I know with old homicides that I've had because

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Speaker 1: of the improvements and the changes in forensic science, at

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Speaker 1: a forensic review and gave for all the exhibits that

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Speaker 1: are still still retained.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've asked for it. They weren't keen on it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Who are you speaking to in REGARDSS that was

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Speaker 1: Nigel or own it?

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Speaker 5: Unsolved homicide?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and more recently Matthew Russell, right, and what was

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Speaker 2: the restinale behind that? Well? It like their arguments are

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Speaker 2: that's a strong argument. You can't there's a finite amount

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Speaker 2: of times that you can test something, so it's not

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Speaker 2: something that they routinely go back and test. If there's

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Speaker 2: some reason for it, they will, but they won't just

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Speaker 2: go back over everything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you mentioned the names, and it's difficult for

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Speaker 1: me because I know both both those people and I

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Speaker 1: respect both those people. Yeah, and so do I and Nigel.

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Speaker 1: I actually worked with him. I supervised him in his

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Speaker 1: early early days in homicide, and he's a very consciouest

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Speaker 1: just good operator. So I think you've got a good

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Speaker 1: person there. But yeah, I can understand your frustration.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we had when we were looking at the car.

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Speaker 2: We were looking at the petrol cap and we weren't

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Speaker 2: convinced that that was ever tested. I've asked Matthew Russell

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Speaker 2: and he can't find any evidence of if it was tested.

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Speaker 2: He can't find what happened with it, so he's not

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Speaker 2: sure whether it was or not. So he said he's

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Speaker 2: put in put that in the hands of a squad

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Speaker 2: near where I live, and they're going to come out

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Speaker 2: and seize the petrol cap and they are going to test,

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Speaker 2: which is great.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think to me, and I do listen to names,

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Speaker 1: and you form your own views, but I think with

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Speaker 1: Nigel and Matt. That's the point in a good direction

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Speaker 1: that gives me.

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Speaker 2: And they've always been really willing to talk to me.

400
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Speaker 2: I've had meetings with them and they put up with

401
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Speaker 2: me digging my heels in and having, you know, selling

402
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Speaker 2: them exactly what I think. They're very good. They're good

403
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Speaker 2: towards me.

404
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Speaker 1: They're they're both nice people too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's and Matt's a car Holden Fank as well,

406
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Speaker 2: so we.

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Speaker 1: Went I think Nigel is too. He's a bit of

408
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Speaker 1: a bit of a redhead. So you've been able to

409
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Speaker 1: talk on that level. Yeah, but yeah, these are the

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Speaker 1: things that it's so hard, hard for the family. And

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Speaker 1: what I take away from that, the fact that they're

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Speaker 1: talking to is such a positive, positive situation because it's

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Speaker 1: when families get stonewalled. I think half the time that

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Speaker 1: police might be working on the case, but they're not

415
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Speaker 1: keeping the families informed and that creates that pain. There

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Speaker 1: was in one of the episodes I heard on the

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Speaker 1: podcast that there was I think he was a boss

418
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Speaker 1: of homicide at the time, Scott Cooked talking about CCTV

419
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Speaker 1: footage that was couldn't be found. What was that in

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Speaker 1: relation until we touched on it and in part one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so they see CCTV footage from petrol stations between

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Speaker 2: Vargo and now On. And the reason for that is one,

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Speaker 2: if you're driving a V eight commodore, you know, pass

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Speaker 2: everything on the road except for a petrol station. And

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Speaker 2: because an accelerant was used, right and because Rochelle was

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Speaker 2: so broke, she would only put you know, five ten

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Speaker 2: dollars worth of fuel in the car at the time

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Speaker 2: because she just never had any money. So if her

429
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Speaker 2: car was used and it traveled one hundred kilometers each way,

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Speaker 2: they would have needed to put fuel in it. So

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Speaker 2: that's why there's a tension on the field cap because

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Speaker 2: the field cap is one of those key locked silver

433
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 2: caps behind like a flat that you can open with

434
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Speaker 2: your hand. But there's no fingerprint, dust or anything on

435
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: the cap. So that's why we questioned. We had Chris

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Speaker 2: Darcy from Search Dogs looking at it and he questioned

437
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 2: whether that had ever been tested, and that's a.

438
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: Really good question. Well, it makes sense if they're coming

439
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 1: back and the petrol person driving the car back. But

440
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: the cc TV for the job had a lot of

441
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: success with investigations getting there at service stations where people

442
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: are up to no good heading along the highways, so

443
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 1: is there any hope that that might be found.

444
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 2: They lost it really early on, and I think Christian

445
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: Olivari's and his team went right through wherever it was

446
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 2: supposedly stored and they couldn't find it either at the

447
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:03,199
Speaker 2: time of the inquest, ye, so they have had a

448
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 2: lot of people looking for it.

449
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 4: There are two segments of CCTV that, according to the

450
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 4: brief that we have, is still in police possessions. So

451
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 4: Christy has asked Unsolved if they'll let her look at it,

452
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 4: at least just Christie, just so that she could rule

453
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 4: it in or out. Because there is a woman on

454
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 4: one of the segments of CCTV within close proximity of

455
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 4: where Rochelle's body was found, but also just a few

456
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 4: hours before she was found. So there's one piece of

457
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 4: CCTV that has a woman and an unknown man. Both

458
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 4: of them are unknown, so a woman and a man.

459
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 4: And then the second piece of CCTV was about an

460
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 4: hour later, I think, and that had just two men

461
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 4: on it and a commodore, but the number.

462
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 3: Plate was obscured because of the hype.

463
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 4: They had their lights on and they didn't turn their

464
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 4: lights off when they filled up right, So my feeling

465
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 4: on that was was that intentional? Did they leave the

466
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 4: lights on by mistake or was that a deliberate attempt

467
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 4: to disguise the number plate and obscure the number plate?

468
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 4: So that's why Christy wants to see that CCTV.

469
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 5: Is there a.

470
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: Suggestion that could have the female could have been rachelle Is?

471
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: We just don't know.

472
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 4: So at the very least, you would think that Christy

473
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 4: would have been shown that CCTV to say absolutely not

474
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 4: that is not.

475
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 3: Her or who is this person?

476
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:40,239
Speaker 4: Because even though it's almost twenty four years old, I

477
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 4: still think that even if it is just black and white,

478
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 4: a family member could could make out someone if they're identifiable.

479
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 2: With the car.

480
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 5: The car, so oh no, if it's the car, yeah, okay.

481
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 4: So that's how that's our question to police is why

482
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 4: has Christy never been shown this CCTV if it does exist?

483
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 4: Because according to the brief, that was not this CCTV

484
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 4: that was lost, the other CCTV.

485
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 3: Other CCTV was lost. Okay, so there is some but

486
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 3: you've never seen it.

487
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 2: No, And I've asked to say, and I can't remember

488
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 2: what the response was. The other CCTV footage that they've

489
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 2: got is from the Bargo train station. Yeah, apparently that's

490
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 2: very grainy and very hard to make anything out.

491
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 5: Matt Russell said that.

492
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 2: He said, it's really hard to.

493
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, certainly improved the CCTV type coverage that you

494
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: get in this day and age, but the old ones

495
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: are hard. But the fact that the car was where

496
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: it was parked, someone who parked it had to leave

497
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: that location too. But I would imagine that that footage

498
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: was grabbed very early in the investigation because otherwise that

499
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: we probably wouldn't have have copies of it because it

500
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: gets disposed of sometimes. To put your mind to these,

501
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: I know there was a lot of time, doesn't really

502
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: put your mind to these, but knowing that these mistakes

503
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: shouldn't happen down the track. Not the impacts on this investigation,

504
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: but the practices are a lot better now on where

505
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: exhibits are stored. It used to be. I won't say

506
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: ad hoc. There was a system in place, but it

507
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: was a system that failed too often and the exhibits

508
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 1: were misplaced. And you think, well, how can you lose

509
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: an exhibit to a murder investigation? But police stations someone

510
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: retires and boxes left there, it gets moved, someone comes

511
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: in and it's happened too often, but now they've got

512
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: a system in place that that should not happen. Down

513
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: the track with the podcast, you've got some expert opinion

514
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: on the situation or people that were involved in the investigation.

515
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: Can we talk through a couple couple of them? You

516
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: mentioned Chris Illingsworth, What did you run past her? What

517
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: type of things were you looking at? Chris to provide, well.

518
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 4: Chris was involved in profiling Rochelle's killer, so she has intimate.

519
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 3: Knowledge about the case.

520
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 4: She examined a lot of the evidence and wrote a

521
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 4: report to the New South Wales Police Force about the behavior,

522
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,959
Speaker 4: the type and profile the killer. So for that reason,

523
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,479
Speaker 4: she was someone that I really wanted to speak to

524
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 4: and she was willing to because she believes, like most

525
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 4: retired police officers, that getting that information out there could

526
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 4: help and could take this case a little bit further.

527
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 4: And she also believes in a podcast too, So she

528
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 4: was on board and she wanted to help the family

529
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 4: and was very generous with her time and went back

530
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 4: over her memory of the case and also met us

531
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 4: down at GIRoA and gave us some really fascinating insights

532
00:29:54,960 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 4: into what she believed happened. Fascinating but also traumatic for

533
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 4: Christy to hear. And that was a really difficult conversation

534
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 4: to have to relay to her what Chris had relayed

535
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:15,719
Speaker 4: to us. So but you know, in true Christie's style,

536
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 4: she just takes it and just processes it and says,

537
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 4: I wanted out there. You know, this is what he

538
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 4: did to her, and it's part of the part of

539
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 4: the evidence, and we could it could help us.

540
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: The cause of death. What was what was put down

541
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: as the cause of death.

542
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: It was unknown, but either strangulation or suffocation.

543
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, Damien learn and the people that would have

544
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: heard that name from from here and he's been a

545
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: guest on this, but he was also the detective involved

546
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: in the teacher's pet like a dog with a bone

547
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: when he's on the case. So you consulted consulted with him.

548
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: So that's a good choice. What did Damien bring to

549
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: the podcast?

550
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,959
Speaker 4: Well, I shared the brief of evidence with him and

551
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 4: asked him if he wanted to get on board because

552
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 4: I needed help and I wanted someone who could independently

553
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 4: help me pull out the key pieces of evidence that

554
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 4: we wanted to use in the podcast, and for obvious

555
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 4: reasons his profile with the Teacher's Pet. He was also retired,

556
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 4: and I thought he might have the time because it

557
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 4: is really hard to get people to commit to such

558
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 4: a big project. But when I reached out to him,

559
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 4: he said yes, absolutely, And then he tells a different

560
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 4: story that I just fronted him at the airport basically

561
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 4: with a brief of evidence and he did agree to

562
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 4: meet me though, and yeah, he started reading the case

563
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 4: and then we just had regular contact and I surprised

564
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 4: Christy with having him on board, and which was really nice,

565
00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 4: just because they have felt forgotten for so many years.

566
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 4: So to bring someone with a profile like that to

567
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 4: the case, I just thought it was. Yeah, it just

568
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 4: shows that there are still many people that are interested

569
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 4: in Rachelle's case and getting justice for her and your family.

570
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 4: So I just thought he'd be a great person to

571
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 4: bring on board and his knowledge and his analysis of

572
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 4: the case. And he's just a straight shooter as well.

573
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 4: He's great for a podcast. He's got a great voice.

574
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 4: He just gets straight to the point and tells it

575
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 4: like it is.

576
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: He doesn't care about ruffling feathers, which is a good

577
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: trait to have when you're involved in that type of stuff. Chritsie,

578
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: you would have been happy for him to come on board.

579
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's really cool.

580
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: You need those crazy, crazy human beings to sometimes push

581
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: it a long day.

582
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: That's all right. I relate to that side of him

583
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 2: really well. He's yeah, and we agree on a lot

584
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: of things when it comes to the case. And just

585
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 2: having his insight was incredible, and he's just so giving

586
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 2: with his time and he's just such a good guy.

587
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it must know you've carried this for so

588
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: long and having a team of good people, committed people

589
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: must must give you some contentment knowing that people.

590
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 2: Are looking at it's incredible.

591
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: Mick Ash would Okay, Mick took and off, Michael. We're

592
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: discussing it because I know Mick well and we worked

593
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: together in homicide, and I was thinking he might have

594
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: reviewed it in Unsolved homicide. When you said I think Chrissy,

595
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: that Mick ashwould became involved twelve months after either was

596
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: running the investigation. I think Mick would have been on

597
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: the floor as in one of the working teams at

598
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: that point in time. And I think the processes that

599
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: we had in place here that if an investigation like

600
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: this one had got to a certain point, homicide would

601
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: come down and act as a consultant or taken. So

602
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: I think that was the capacity. I thought it might

603
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: have been unsolved, but he probably was on the floor.

604
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: Giving the time.

605
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 5: Frame, that's likely.

606
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: As I said, my memory of that's shaky.

607
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: And how have you found Mick Ashwood's input. He's out

608
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: of the cops now, so he's not he doesn't have

609
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: to do the corporate spin. How has Mick?

610
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 2: I haven't spoken to Mick. I've spoken to a couple

611
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 2: of others, but I's just spoken to Mick a few times.

612
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: How'd you find Mick?

613
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 4: He's incredible And again his insights and his expertise on

614
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 4: looking at the case and pointing me in the right

615
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 4: direction as to what I should focus on and why

616
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 4: he thinks it's important. And just again his time is

617
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 4: always available when I ring him up because I've got

618
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 4: a query about something and he just has intimate knowledge

619
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 4: of the case and what he believes may have happened.

620
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 4: And yeah, and who we should be focusing on as well,

621
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 4: he has some insights about that from my perspective as

622
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 4: a journalist.

623
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 3: Great, So happy to have him on board.

624
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 1: Well, you you're putting together a good team and all

625
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: the different skill sets and expertise that you've bought brought

626
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: together the inquest. When when the inquest was finalized, what

627
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: did the coroner come back with? What?

628
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 2: Finding persons unknown?

629
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: How did that make you feel?

630
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 5: I wasn't surprised by that point.

631
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, did you go to the inquest with expectations.

632
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 5: That this one?

633
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: I was hopeful, but you know, we'd been not let

634
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 2: down by anyone in particular. We've been let down a

635
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 2: lot over the years, So we were hopeful, but not confident.

636
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: Now and correct me if if I'm wrong, And if

637
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: I'm wrong here will probably have to delete this. But

638
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: I think I read in the media that there were

639
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 1: nine persons of interest identified at the inquest, that two

640
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: were not required to give evidence. I think at too,

641
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: it might have been more were not required to give

642
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: evidence because the coroner thought that's not going to take

643
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: the matter any further. The others got in some in

644
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: the evidence that they provided, it was clear that they

645
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: had alibis or it was exculplatory. There was one person

646
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: of interest that couldn't be eliminated. Are we touching on

647
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: dangerous grounds here or is that where we're that's where

648
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: we're up to. Okay. And that person, and my understanding,

649
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 1: was someone that Rachelle worked with. We want to talk

650
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: about that.

651
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was her boss. His name is Kevin Carrell.

652
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,919
Speaker 2: And yeah, he sort of took her under his wing

653
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 2: and showed at the ropes of selling his cars. And

654
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 2: he was the one that allowed her to take cars home.

655
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 2: They had a really good relationship. It was a bit

656
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 2: of a mentor mentee relationship ship from Rochelle's perspective. Yep,

657
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 2: she really looked up to him. Yeah, they got along

658
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 2: really well. But she got along with everyone though.

659
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: What she was twenty three? How how old was he?

660
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 4: He would have been in his forties Yeah, early forties,

661
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 4: maybe forty three from memory.

662
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: Okay, So he was her boss. And does that bring

663
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 1: it back to the car that she was excited about

664
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: on the day. Forget the what's the talkie or what's well?

665
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: Not well, sorry, no walkie talking? Okay, walky? You think

666
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: that was that he had said that she could have

667
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 1: that car that weekend. Okay. And this was all heard

668
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: at the inquest. It was did I again correct me

669
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong. But one of the part of the

670
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:56,280
Speaker 1: podcasts I listened to that one of Rochelle's friends said

671
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: that she couldn't talk in front of him about going

672
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: out on a girl's weekend.

673
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, she didn't want to, didn't want to annoy him.

674
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 4: More secretive about her private life. Yeah, And Damien Luhne

675
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 4: has some insights about that. He says, well, that's a

676
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 4: red flag because why would someone why would a twenty

677
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 4: three year old woman be so afraid to share her

678
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 4: personal life with someone that she trusted and someone that.

679
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 3: She worked with.

680
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 4: So there's another person that works there as well, Fiona,

681
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 4: her friend, and she gives insights as well about that

682
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 4: time in Michelle's life and her relationship with her, and

683
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 4: she just sort of calls it.

684
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 3: Out that it was a little bit odd, bit strange.

685
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 2: Odd that he wanted to know about her.

686
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 4: He was very obsessed with her life and knowing about

687
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 4: her personal life. But then at the same time, this

688
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 4: particular trip to Queensland, he wasn't happy about that. And

689
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 4: she was going to meet a young man in Queensland

690
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 4: that she'd met over the internet, and the internet was

691
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 4: only just emerging in two thousand and one, so it

692
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 4: was a bit of a new thing. So Fiona and

693
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 4: her went to Queensland on this girl's trip, but it

694
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 4: didn't go down well with Kevin and Fiona. And the

695
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 4: feelings around that are that he possibly fancied her and

696
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 4: he had a bit of a thing for her. He

697
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 4: played favorites with her, gave her lots of benefits in

698
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 4: terms of cars and her access to the cars, and

699
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 4: that's how you describe it.

700
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 2: He remember her telling me, oh, Kevin used to be

701
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 2: a detective, that they were. That was the sort of

702
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 2: the stories that he would tell her. And he wasn't

703
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 2: a detective. It was Yeah, he was talking himself up

704
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 2: to this young pretty girl and she believed him because

705
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 2: she respected him.

706
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, somewhere the twenty three year old working in

707
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: an environment, you shouldn't be concerned about what her personal

708
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 1: life is, and that is a concern.

709
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there were reports from his girlfriend at the

710
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 2: time that he would make comments about about Rachelle and

711
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,240
Speaker 2: he'd be disappointed in her behavior, like her personal behavior

712
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 2: and things that were uncharacteristic of a boss.

713
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: And this all came out at the inquest.

714
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 4: Yes, he made comments about her wearing makeup, described her

715
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 4: as a tart on one occasion, so spoke really negatively

716
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 4: about her, and there was almost like this marked shift

717
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 4: in his behavior and his thoughts and feelings towards her.

718
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 4: So it makes me wonder as a journalist, did she

719
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 4: reject him?

720
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:49,439
Speaker 3: Was there any kind of.

721
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 4: You suggestion that they were going to he wanted more

722
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 4: from her and she rejected him, And maybe then that

723
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 4: has escalated over time.

724
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: Well, these are all the questions ideally that would be

725
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: asked and answered at the inquest. Was he called to

726
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: give evidence at the inquest? And how did that play out?

727
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 4: He did give evidence at the inquest, but there were

728
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 4: many questions he didn't answer because he executed his right

729
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 4: to silence, executed his right to refuse to answer questions

730
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 4: on the grounds that it may incriminate him, which is

731
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 4: his legal right. And he was legally represented at the inquest,

732
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 4: so there was a lot of legal arguments about what

733
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 4: was asked of him, what he was prepared to answer.

734
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: You're quite right, that is his legal right that he

735
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 1: doesn't have to answer a question on the grounds that

736
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 1: may incriminate him. And I've seen people time and time

737
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: again getting the witness box and take that protection. Sometimes

738
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: it's for something that's not related to what the inquest

739
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: is about. Sometimes it could be that was making a

740
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: joint that night.

741
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 2: And that could be that could have been the case

742
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 2: because there were other issues happening at Camden Holden at

743
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 2: the time, that that could be the reason why he

744
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 2: didn't want to incriminate himself.

745
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: Okay, I always look opportunity madeive capability and opportunity falls

746
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: in the factor of alibi evidence. Was there any alibi

747
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: evidence that he presented that I was at home or

748
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: I was in the state on the day she disappeared?

749
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: Was any alibi evidence presented?

750
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 2: Yes, but it was you know, no one saw him, right,

751
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 2: so he presented and actually see anyone in his alibi,

752
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 2: so there was no one to corporate what he were saying.

753
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 4: He presented a very involved alibi that involved going shopping,

754
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 4: going to a service station, go into a pub, briefly

755
00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 4: going to a takeaway food store, even mentioned going to

756
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 4: his girlfriend's house, but she wasn't home.

757
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 3: At one stage.

758
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 4: He said he's driven past Campden Holden and has seen

759
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 4: the cleaner and has had a really brief conversation with

760
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 4: the cleaner and all the people that he came into

761
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 4: contact with that night that he says, police can't verify it,

762
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 4: and the cleaner even gave evidence at the inquest and said,

763
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 4: I have no memory of anyone pulling me up that night,

764
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 4: and he was interviewed pretty soon after Kevin was interviewed

765
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 4: about his movements on the seventh of June two.

766
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 3: Thousand and one.

767
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 4: So his alibi can't be proven and it can't be disproven.

768
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 4: So that's always been the difficulty about this investigation as well,

769
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 4: because there were so many persons of interest and so

770
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 4: many people in her Rochelle's life that had to be

771
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 4: looked at, and for whatever reason, they didn't manage to

772
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 4: prove or disprove Kevin's alibi.

773
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 3: We don't know whether so that's what he did that.

774
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 1: Night, left hanging. I think I should point out at

775
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: this stage that Kevin Carrell has strenuously denied any involvement

776
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: in the murder of Rachelle Childs. Yes, that's true, and

777
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: he's consistently maintained that position.

778
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 4: He has and he's always cooperated with police as well,

779
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 4: and has volunteered his time to participate in interviews with detectives

780
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 4: about Rochelle's murder.

781
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 3: And he's always denied any involvement.

782
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: There was a couple of other lines of lines of inquiry.

783
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: I think that was there was someone that Rachelle saw

784
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: the night before and his petrol can was found in

785
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:42,760
Speaker 1: the Oh.

786
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,919
Speaker 2: That's the next door name, right, Yeah, yeah, they did

787
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 2: clear him, I understand.

788
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 5: Yeah.

789
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, So okay, we've had the had the inquest and

790
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: what you was adding again to two thousand and eight? Eight?

791
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 3: Okay, two thousand and eight, the findings were handed down.

792
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: All right, so you're the family, there's been an investigation,

793
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 1: You've got no result. There's been a change of teams

794
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: running the investigation. It's gone to inquest. Looks like it's

795
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 1: been prepared and the police have done their best currying

796
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 1: the hands down their findings, and still none the wiser.

797
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: What's the next time you were contacted by police or

798
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: what's the next thing, because if we're talking two thousand

799
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 1: and eight, this is a long time ago.

800
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 2: What they doubled the reward in twenty eleven, okay, from

801
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand to two hundred thousand.

802
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 1: Was that your initiation or no?

803
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 2: I can't remember why they did that. Yeah, and then nothing.

804
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 4: So probably difficult as well, just to be fair because

805
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 4: as you say, your dad was.

806
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 5: The main point of contact.

807
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, point of contact, So yeah, they could have been.

808
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 4: There could have been. It's it's hard to say whether

809
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 4: there was, you know, unless because I know that you

810
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 4: say that you don't have a good memory of it.

811
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 4: So it's it's sort of hard to say whether or

812
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:05,720
Speaker 4: not Graham was speaking to how often Graham was speaking

813
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 4: to police, and what was what was happening between them,

814
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 4: such with Christian Olivris.

815
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, he would have been unsolved homicide Christian, Yeah.

816
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 2: But nothing substantial happened.

817
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: Right right, Okay, so looking at this way, but that.

818
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 3: Was twenty and eleven when that.

819
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: Reward reward increased.

820
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 4: We're in twenty twenty five and it's still at two

821
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 4: hundred thousand dollars, which isn't a huge amount of money

822
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 4: if it's going to change somebody's life to come forward

823
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 4: with critical information, and.

824
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: Rewards don't get paid a lot of the time, So

825
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, and quite often families would come to

826
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 1: me because I was involved in the first million dollar

827
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 1: award with Willim Tyrrel and that was after a discussion

828
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: with a politician and then the me and dollar award

829
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: came out and then I got in not inundated, but

830
00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: contacted by other families saying, well, if why is that

831
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: case worth a million dollars and why he is ours

832
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty thousand, and that I think there

833
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: could be rewards a tactical thing. You've got to use

834
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 1: them at the right time for the right reason. But yeah,

835
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: when we're looking at two hundred thousand dollars, it's not

836
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: life changing now, but a million dollars perhaps, you know,

837
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: that might might push push someone to come forward. That

838
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: if they did know the person that was going to

839
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,280
Speaker 1: change their life or their life was going to be disrupted,

840
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: that might motivate them. But the point I'm trying to

841
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: get to here is two thousand and eight inquests, Okay,

842
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: well we've got no answers. Twenty eleven, Okay, the reward

843
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: has been an increase. That's good. There's a bit of attention.

844
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: We're now two thousand and twenty five, we're talking about this,

845
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 1: and I'm sure the police are looking at this because

846
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: of the podcast. What do you think would have happened

847
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: if you didn't do the podcast?

848
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 2: Can't swear, but nothing. I contacted the police in twenty

849
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 2: unsolved in twenty twenty one and I was emailing a

850
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 2: man named Stuart at the time, and he said that

851
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 2: they were assessing Rochelle's case to see if they'll do

852
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 2: a review, and so I gave him. He said, give

853
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 2: me a month. I gave him three months and emailed

854
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 2: him and I just never heard back from him. Then

855
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 2: when I spoke to Nigel Warren last year, he said, well,

856
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 2: at that point in time, Stuart actually retired. So then

857
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 2: I said, okay, well what happened with it? And he said, well,

858
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 2: we can't find an assessment. We don't know what happened.

859
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 2: So I said to him, are you telling me that

860
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 2: I was lied to? And he said no, I don't

861
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 2: know if you were lied to or not. You said,

862
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: I don't think so, So I said, okay, well, when

863
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 2: when's the next assessment of her case? And he said

864
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 2: it'll be this year, which was last year. And then

865
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,399
Speaker 2: when I spoke to Matthew Russell, they were focusing their

866
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 2: efforts on older cases at the time, so they weren't

867
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,879
Speaker 2: actually doing an assessment of Rochelle's case and they said,

868
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 2: you know, and I said, so, don't hold my breath

869
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 2: and he said.

870
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 5: No, don't want to breath right, right, So.

871
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 2: But but then now they are so miracle squeak you will.

872
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 1: This is a squeaky will.

873
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 2: But I'm happy about that. I'm thrilled that they're doing that,

874
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 2: and I'm not. I know I sound critical, but it's

875
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 2: I know that they've only got, as I said, a

876
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 2: finite number of resources, and they've got to make those

877
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 2: decisions which are really hard. And I'm the family, so

878
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 2: I obviously want it for Rochelle. But there's eight hundred

879
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 2: unsolved cases.

880
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, but also you have the right to, yeah,

881
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: ask and I'm confident for you. And I'm saying this,

882
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 1: I'm looking you in the eye here that the fact

883
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 1: that you got Nigel you're talking to. No, he wouldn't

884
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: bullshit to you, like I'd say it up front. I

885
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: know the way he operates and I know the person

886
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: he is, so it's a good person looking at it.

887
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: I think it's sad that you need to do that

888
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: squeaky will to get people to look at it. People

889
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 1: put faith in the fact that their brief is that

890
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: unsolved homicide, and for years I cringe when I heard

891
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,280
Speaker 1: coroners say, look, we don't know what's happened, but rest assured.

892
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 1: We're referring this matter to unsolved homicide, and there's been

893
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,240
Speaker 1: a lot of coverage in the media about the failings

894
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 1: of the unsolved homicide where cases weren't being reviewed and

895
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: cases weren't being followed up. So, yeah, you're doing all

896
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 1: that you can to get attention on your sister's murder.

897
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 2: I think it's a reflection of how underresource they are too. Yeah,

898
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,839
Speaker 2: can't expect them to work miracles.

899
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 1: No, no, but it's someone's life's been taken. You expect

900
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:01,879
Speaker 1: things to be done properly. Where to from there?

901
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,919
Speaker 2: We need people to come forward. We're hoping that, as

902
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 2: Damien Luhn has said in his interviews, we're hoping that

903
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 2: the relationships that existed back then that may have prevented

904
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 2: people from coming forward now don't exist. And now that

905
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:25,919
Speaker 2: people are you know, have another twenty years on them,

906
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 2: and they're more mature and they understand the gravity of

907
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 2: keeping silent, that they will come forward. And we want

908
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 2: them to know that we're not going to whacky with

909
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 2: a stick for not coming forward earlier. We're going to

910
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 2: welcome you with open arms and we want you to

911
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 2: come and talk to us.

912
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 1: That's good, good message. To put out. Yeah, and I

913
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: think quite quite reasonable. But just congratulations on the podcast

914
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 1: and I've enjoyed the listen. It really takes you deep

915
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: inside what happened. If people want to listen to the podcast,

916
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: how do they listen to Dear Rochelle.

917
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 4: Well, they can go to the website www dot Dear

918
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 4: Rochelle dot com dot au and if you subscribe to

919
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 4: News Corp Australia Mastheads, you get early access to episodes,

920
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 4: so we encourage people to do that if they want

921
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 4: to listen, and you can follow all the news and

922
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 4: the breaking news through that website and also through your

923
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 4: News Corp mastheads.

924
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: I wish you guys all the best in getting the

925
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 1: result to this. For this it deserves a result and

926
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,879
Speaker 1: my instinct from a homicide to take this point of view,

927
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: it is solvable. It's definitely definitely solvable. So hopefully the

928
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 1: podcast you're doing, the attention that you're getting that will

929
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 1: encourage people to people to come forward.

930
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 3: Thanks Gary,