1 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: From The Australian. This is the weekend edition of The Front. 2 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: I'm Claire Harvey. Contemporary art is all about pushing boundaries. 3 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 2: Someone's going to love it, everything about it is so wonderful. 4 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: Someone's going to think it's garbage. I don't think I'll 5 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 2: be got. 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: And then the conversation the publicity can become bigger than 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: the art itself. 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 2: Dark Mofo is. 9 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: The brainchild of David Walsh, the founder of Hobart's Museum 10 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 1: of Old and New Art, and his mates Lee Carmichael 11 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: and Brian Ritchie. They seem to understand this principle better 12 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: than anyone. Their annual Tasmanian Festival, a celebration of darkness, 13 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: has gone from edgy to all grown up. 14 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 2: So does it still have the power to shock? 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: And why does everyone love getting nude at Dark Mofo. 16 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: David Walsh, a professional gambler turned art magnate, has transformed 17 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: tourism in Tasmania. 18 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 3: Dark Mofo is back some fantastic news for our tourism 19 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 3: and hospitality industry by. 20 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: Luring huge crowds to his subversive adult disneyland, a gallery 21 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: in Hobart called Mona. According to one of his collaborators 22 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: Lee Carmichael. There's one thing Walsh doesn't like, spending money 23 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: on marketing. Mona lures hundreds of thousands of visitors a year, 24 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,919 Speaker 1: but there used to be a winter loll when Hobart's 25 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: cold and generally miserable winter kept the tourists away. 26 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 2: So Walsh, Carmichael and their. 27 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: Offsider Brian Ritchie, the bassist from the Violent Femmes by 28 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: the Way, took ninety percent of their advertising budget and 29 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: threw a party. It is very noisy, but that noisy 30 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: to here is all part of attracting the evil spirits 31 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 1: and then burning them in order to start a new 32 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: life free of evil, not just any party a backenal 33 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: that turns the city into a pagan playground. Tim Douglas 34 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: is the editor of The Australians Review Arts and Culture section. 35 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: The Dark Mofo Festival sets out to be provocative, which 36 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: is an interesting choice, isn't it for a state which 37 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:40,399 Speaker 1: is probably regarded by the rest of Australia as relatively conservative. 38 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: Yet the choice of a festival is to be as 39 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: troublemaking as possible. 40 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 2: Is that fair? 41 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 3: Absolutely fair? David Walsh is nothing if not an gen provocateur. 42 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 3: The idea to make it as edgy as possible was 43 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 3: certainly a conscious one and it's paid off. It has 44 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 3: really changed the face of not only Tasmanian tourism, but 45 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 3: midwinter tourism in that state. At the beginning, it was 46 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 3: basically all funded by David Walsh. They eventually got some 47 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 3: government funding and then they had some commercial funding. They 48 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 3: ended up scrapping that commercial funding about twenty fifteen or 49 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 3: sixteen because they felt like they were being creatively compromised 50 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 3: by those commercial imperatives. Now do they go out of 51 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 3: their way every year to program something provocative? You'd have 52 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 3: to say yes, I mean this year is another great example. 53 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 3: Nathan Maynard's work called they threw Us down the rocks 54 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 3: like they did with the sheep, a verbatim quote from 55 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 3: a police report in the nineteenth century about the murder 56 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 3: of some indigenous people. This work by Maynard includes four 57 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 3: hundred and eighty decapitated sheep in formaldehyde, which is a 58 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 3: comment on the way indigenous remains have been fetishized and 59 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 3: kept in private museums around the world. Now, that was 60 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 3: the first programming venture for this year. They a ounce 61 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 3: obviously hoping to capitalize on media attention. Tasmania, as we know, 62 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 3: has a very complicated relationship with its indigenous past, and 63 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 3: in fact, this work didn't go down particularly well with 64 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 3: a lot of indigenous people. There were some people who 65 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 3: came out and said dark Mofo has some sick fetish 66 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 3: with indigenous pain. So I'm not sure it worked entirely 67 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 3: in their favor during the initial launch a few months ago. 68 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 3: But the first weekend has apparently gone off without a hitch, 69 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 3: and there's plenty of other dark things to come over 70 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 3: the next week and a half. 71 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: Presumably the artist's intention was to shock people who wear 72 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: twin sets and pearls and not your art crowd, not 73 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: necessarily to shock the people whose narrative he was trying 74 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: to amplify. And that reference to dark Mofo having a 75 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: fetish with indigenou pain, that's a reference to a twenty 76 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: twenty two work, isn't it That caused a big controversy. 77 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 4: It did. 78 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 3: Santiago Sierra called on Indigenous Tasmanians to donate their blood, 79 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 3: which would be collected in a vessel into which the 80 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 3: Union Flag would be doused. 81 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 4: The work was called Union Flag. It caused a huge storm. 82 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 3: Aboriginal people have spilt way too much blood over the 83 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 3: past two hundred years. 84 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 2: We don't feel like we need to bleed in. 85 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 3: The festival almost shut down. Lee Carmichael was hounded personally. 86 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 3: I know that he had a very tough time trying 87 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 3: to navigate those waters. The festival eventually seated and said, look, 88 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 3: we made a mistake. They embarked on a six month 89 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 3: program of Indigenous education for their. 90 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 4: Staff and for the festival itself, But. 91 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 3: In so doing many people wondered whether they'd actually compromised 92 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 3: the integrity of their original vision, which was to be 93 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 3: as edgy as possible and as unapologetically artistic as it 94 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 3: was originally conceived to be. And people wondered whether Dark 95 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 3: Mofo would shift to that place it fears the very most, 96 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 3: the middle. 97 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: I'm interested in some of the works this year. One 98 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 1: where an artist is staging ahead on car crash at 99 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: what seems to me like great risk to her personal safety. 100 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 4: Absolutely so. 101 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 3: Paula Garcia, Brazilian artist and probably the best known student 102 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 3: of the world's foremost performance artist, Marina Abramovich. She drives 103 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 3: headlong into another car driven by a stunt driver. 104 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 4: Now it's not as simple. 105 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 3: As that they circle each other in this sort of 106 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 3: centrifugal motion for ninety minutes until that tension builds and 107 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 3: they eventually slam into each other. 108 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 4: It's called body crash. 109 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:03,799 Speaker 3: The idea behind that work was that she was sitting 110 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 3: on a bus and she wondered what it would be 111 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,679 Speaker 3: like to be covered in the armor of the bus 112 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 3: and to have herself magnetically dragged into another object. 113 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: The other question when it comes to provocative art is 114 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,239 Speaker 1: about privilege and who gets to provoke. This is someone 115 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,559 Speaker 1: who has never been in her head on car crash 116 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: that she didn't choose to be in. Presumably survivors of 117 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: head on car crashes who've had their lives destroyed or 118 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: seen other people's lives destroyed would not think it was 119 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: amusing or an artistic endeavor. 120 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 4: No, I wouldn't think so. But perhaps in the moment 121 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 4: it was. 122 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 3: Maybe that tension builds to something quite dramatic and visceral. 123 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 3: I'm not sure it's a stunt, but it's art, or 124 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 3: maybe it's a stunt in the name of art. 125 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 4: I mean, who are we to judge? 126 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: Another one that I was sort of prepared to be 127 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: annoyed by but actually seems like it might have been 128 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: quite fun. Was using the emergency warning system, the sirens 129 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: in Hobart and the emergency messaging system to alert Hobatians 130 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: that there was about to be a really unavoidable performance 131 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: that they were going to have to listen to. 132 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. 133 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 3: It's Richard Brussel, So, famed English DJM producer was tasked 134 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 3: with taking over this, as you say, emergency sonic sound system. 135 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 3: David Walsh is one of the only private citizens in 136 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 3: the world to own this technology. It's called the Genesis 137 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 3: three sixty x L and every state has one in 138 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 3: case there's a title waver, there's an earthquake. 139 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 4: But they got permission from. 140 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 3: The council for half an hour last Saturday and this 141 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 3: Saturday to do whatever they liked, and everyone within a 142 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 3: seven kilometer radius of the Hobart CBD will find whatever 143 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,359 Speaker 3: comes out of those speakers unavoidable. 144 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: It's so interesting, this idea of deliberately setting out to 145 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: annoy people or to provoke in the hope that you'll 146 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: get some publicity, or to genuinely do something that you 147 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: is different and that is coming out of you in 148 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: an irrepressible way. And you could say that the works 149 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: of Turner were shocking when they were first painted, or 150 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: the music of Shostakovich that were not necessarily intending to 151 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: be provocative in what we might regard as a self 152 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: indulgent kind of dark Mofo got away. 153 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 2: What's your view about that? 154 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: Do you think art should just flow or is it 155 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: legitimate and is it art to just set out to 156 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:32,239 Speaker 1: kind of get a headline. 157 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 3: I wouldn't suggest that that's actually what they're doing. I mean, 158 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 3: I do support their right to make public art. I 159 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 3: mean it's no more offensive really than walking past statue 160 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 3: of rodin and in a public outdoor gallery in Canberra, really, 161 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 3: and so I think it's really interesting, and I think 162 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 3: people in Hobart, certainly my family, love dark Moto, love 163 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 3: that experimental. 164 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 4: Edge, and are open to it. 165 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 3: I mean, I don't thk there's any other a city 166 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 3: in the country, let alone the world, that would maybe 167 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 3: allow that kind of thing to happen, would allow the 168 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 3: inverted illuminated crosses to go up, would have allowed Mike 169 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 3: Parer to inter himself beneath the city's main road for 170 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 3: three days and have cars drive over the top of it. 171 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 3: I mean it's just you have to hand it to 172 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 3: the leaders there and also the way the festival works 173 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 3: with the government to get these things off the ground. Look, 174 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 3: do I think Richard Russell's work is something of great 175 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 3: artistic sustenance and substance? Probably not. Do I support his 176 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 3: right to do it? And do I think Tasmanians on 177 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 3: the whole, if not loved, then at least tolerate the idea. Yeah, absolutely. 178 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 2: Coming up. 179 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 1: Tim goes for a nude Solstice swim with Lee Carmichael 180 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty three. Tim Douglas was in Hobart for 181 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 1: Dark Mofo and organized to speak with the festival's former 182 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: creative director, Lee Carmichael. But given the theme, it didn't 183 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: seem appropriate to do a normal interview in a boardroom 184 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: or a cafe. 185 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 3: And I just said, wouldn't it be great if we 186 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 3: did the interview naked and we did the swim together 187 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 3: and he was up for it, which, to be fair, 188 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 3: no one knows me and it hasn't made it. Everyone 189 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 3: knows him, and so he had much more to lose. 190 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 3: The Salsae swim has been a fixture of the festival 191 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 3: since it started. The water is frigid, I think it 192 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 3: was seven degrees last year. The first year they ran 193 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 3: it twenty thirteen, the police threatened to arrest people for 194 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 3: public indecency because they didn't have a permits to do it. 195 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 3: It's apparently illegal to go for a nude swim in 196 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 3: Tasmania and the depths of winter. Such is the popularity 197 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,839 Speaker 3: of it now that there's two thousand tickets, they're all 198 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 3: gone on the first day. Every year, we ran out 199 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 3: of towels. 200 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: This year we thought we would get a thousand people 201 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: and we were over one thousand. 202 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 2: So next year we're going to double our towels. 203 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 4: But it was a really amazing moment. 204 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 3: You stand there in your robe, it's dark, and these 205 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,599 Speaker 3: drums that go off and then these whistle blows and 206 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 3: we're before you know it, we're all tearing down into 207 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 3: the water. I managed to get a couple of questions 208 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 3: into Lee while we were standing there before we immersed 209 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 3: ourselves in the icy depths. But I felt my heart 210 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 3: rate drop within moments of being in the water. 211 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 4: I thought I need to get out. 212 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 3: Of course, there's some other mad lunatics who were backstroking 213 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 3: out in it to the pontoons. But you come back 214 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 3: in and everyone's kind of stands naked around these forty 215 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 3: four gallon drums for the fire, and it's just the 216 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 3: most cleansing, beautiful community moment. 217 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 4: It was a really great experience. 218 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 2: Tim Douglas is the editor of Review, available. 219 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: In the Saturday edition of The Australian and anytime at 220 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: the Australian dot com dot a slash review. This episode 221 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: of the Front was hosted by me Claire Harvey and 222 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: co produced with Jasper Leek, who edited the episode and also. 223 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 2: Wrote our theme. Thanks for joining us on the Front 224 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 2: this week. 225 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: Our team also includes Kristin Amiot, Lea Sammaglue, Tiffany Dimack, 226 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 1: Joshua Burton and Stephanie Coombs.