WEBVTT - Trump v Harris: two visions of America 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:10.400 From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:14.600 The US presidential campaign so far has been largely based 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:18.400 on vibes, with the Democrats painting Donald Trump as a 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:22.840 threat to democracy and Republicans calling Kamala Harris a radical 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:26.920 Marxist who will destroy America, and with the election just 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:30.720 around the corner, their first and possibly only debate was 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:35.159 a chance to tell Americans about their visions for the country. So, 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:38.440 with polls showing both candidates at a dead heat, what 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:41.239 do we learn about what they're actually offering voters? 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:44.840 And i'd invite yet enough that Donald Trump actually has 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:47.920 no plan for you, because he is more interested in 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:51.080 defending himself than he is in looking out for you. 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:56.120 They have and she has destroyed our country with policy 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:00.480 that's insane, almost policy that you'd say they have to hate. 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:04.440 Our country today. Senior researcher at the Australia Institute, doctor 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:06.800 Emma shortis on who came out on top of the 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:09.640 US presidential debate and whether it was enough to make 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:29.039 a difference. It's Thursday, September twelfth, So Emma, we just 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:34.080 watched a tight, tense debate between Harris and Trump. Before 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:37.520 we get to the details of that debate, what was said. 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:40.880 Can we talk for a moment about its significance, because 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:44.040 there was a lot of anticipation ahead of this ninety 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:47.920 minutes and it seems like it was a critical moment 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:50.040 for both candidates. So why is that? 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.880 I think it's such an interesting question, rebe because generally speaking, 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.480 in American politics and kind of in politics more broadly, 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.000 debates at don't really matter. They don't tend to sway 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:06.480 campaigns until they really do. And we learned that from 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:10.560 the last debate, of course, between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.720 That was really the beginning of the end for Joe Biden. 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.160 So it's completely understandable that there was a huge amount 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.720 of focus on this debate, and I think it was 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:23.760 framed correctly as a debate that had much higher stakes 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:26.360 for Carmala Harris than it did for Donald Trump. You know, 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:30.079 Donald Trump is a seasoned debater. Whatever you think of him, 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:34.120 he is excellent at television. He essentially produced his way 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:37.520 into the White House. So the pressure was on Harris 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.680 really to perform strongly, and as much of the media 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.400 has framed it, to introduce herself to the American people. 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:48.440 So whether it makes or breaks the campaign, I think 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:49.760 remains to be seen. 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:53.840 And Carmala Harris in the lead up to the debate, 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.200 she talked quite a bit about how she wanted policy 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.320 to be the main focus, and that played out a 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:03.800 little Harrison Trump. They did talk about policy, but they 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:06.119 also talked about a lot of other things as well. 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:09.840 They talked about race, about rallies, about abortion. There was 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:13.480 a lot of misinformation. Talk me through what happened. 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:17.680 Look, I think Ruby, it was surprising actually how much 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.120 policy substance was in this debate. 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:24.240 But her vice presidential pick says abortion in the ninth 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:29.360 month is absolutely fine. He also says execution after birth, 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:32.480 it's execution, no longer abortion because the baby is born 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.400 is okay, And that's not okay with me. 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:39.480 You know, you mentioned abortion for example, that there was, 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:42.360 of course, you know, Trump's very violent lies about what 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.800 effectively is the murder of babies that of course doesn't happen. 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.200 But underneath that there was policy substance. You know, there 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:54.520 were Kamala Harris's promises to sign legislation to enshrine abortion rights. 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:58.640 For example, when Congress passes a bill to put back 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:01.880 in place the protections of real V. Wade. As President 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:05.240 of the United States, I will proudly sign it in 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:09.320 to law. But understand, if Donald Trump were to be 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:13.040 re elected, he will sign a national abortion ban. Understanding. 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:16.880 There was a lot of policy talk around economics, you know, 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:20.400 that framed the debate that opened the debate about inflation, 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:22.880 About Trump's plan for tariffs. 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.560 Do you believe Americans can afford higher prices because of terroiffs? 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:28.440 They're not going to have higher prices? Which going to 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:31.240 have and who's going to have higher prices as China 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:33.720 and all of the countries that have been ripping us 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:34.480 off for years. 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.760 About Harris's plans for housing. 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:40.880 We know that we have a shortage of homes and 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:43.960 housing and the cost of housing is too expensive far 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:44.680 too many people. 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.920 And I think Harris actually showed herself to have quite 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:52.520 a command of the policy, and alongside that, I think 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:57.160 was also quite masterful in her use of body language 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:00.520 and her physical reactions to Donald Trump what he was 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:05.040 saying about policy that was really kind of ready made 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:08.719 for social media. So there was an awful lot actually 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:10.640 packed into that ninety minutes. 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.320 And it was clear that Carbola Harris was at certain 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.640 points really trying to get under Donald Trump's skin. I 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:19.719 think the first time I noticed that was when she 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:24.080 talked about his rallies, saying that people were tired and 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:26.200 bored and leaving his rallies. 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:28.839 And what you will also notice is that people start 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:33.160 leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom. And 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:34.680 I will tell you the one thing you will not 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:37.560 hear him talk about is you. You will not. 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.279 Tell me about that and about his response. 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:42.160 Look, I think you're right, Ruby. She was really successful 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:44.400 at getting under his skin. And I think that was 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:47.440 an aim from the start. You know, she ignored I 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:51.520 think a lot of his egregious lies and pivoted to 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:55.160 the substance while very clearly getting under his skin. 0:05:57.279 --> 0:05:59.960 She said, people start leaving. People don't go to her rally, 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:02.960 there's no reason to go. And the people that do go, 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.320 she's busting them in and paying them to be there 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.400 and then showing them in a different late So she 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:10.000 and you. 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:13.040 Could see across the debate as it went on, Trump 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:16.919 was getting angrier and angrier. You know, he interrupted more 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:20.680 and more, he raised his voice more and more, And 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:23.880 that is something that many in his campaign and many 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:28.720 around him have been trying desperately to avoid. 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:31.920 Another subject what they have done to our country by 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.200 allowing these millions and millions of people to come into 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.040 our country. And look at what's happening to the towns 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.400 all over the United States, and a lot of towns 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:41.000 don't want to talk. 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.200 What Harris did, and I think she did it quite masterfully, 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:49.560 was not get sucked into attempting to fact check Donald Trump, because, 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:53.440 I mean, how do you fact check something so ridiculous 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:56.000 as a claim that people are eating pets. 0:06:56.040 --> 0:07:00.799 You know, in Springfield, they're eating the door, the people 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:05.520 that came in, they're eating the cats, They're eating the 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.440 pets of the people that live there. 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:11.720 And it's not the first time he or his surrogates 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.760 have said things like this. You know, this was Trump 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.840 quite clearly speaking almost exclusively to his base, to his 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:23.240 kind of right wing Fox News universe. What Harris did 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:27.400 was implicitly reinforcing this narrative that Donald Trump and his 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:30.360 surrogates are weird. 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:35.040 And one of the big criticisms of Kamala Harris is 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:39.000 that she's flip flopped on several issues since twenty nineteen. 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.240 When she last ran for the presidential nomination. She was 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:45.880 asked about that during the debate, not by Trump, by 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:48.280 the moderators. What did you think of the way that 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.240 she handled that question and how much truth is there 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:52.040 in that claim. 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:54.520 I think the only response that she can have to 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.160 that is that exactly as she's been saying, you know 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:01.040 that her values remain the same, and that can rely 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:04.360 on her to be consistent in those values. And I 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.240 think what she also successfully did and has done this 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:10.360 on a number of fronts, is kind of put that 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:13.480 back onto Donald Trump, because of course Trump has changed 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.840 his policy positions on almost everything that you can think of. 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:20.360 Nowhere is that more clear than on the issue of abortion, 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:24.240 where he tries to maintain several quite different policy positions 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:26.960 at once, depending on who he's speaking to or who 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:30.200 he thinks he's speaking to. And so Harris has I think, 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:34.719 successfully combated that in her contrast to Trump. I think 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.480 the question is whether she's convinced enough and the right 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:40.840 voters in the right places. Again, you know, remains to 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:41.240 be seen. 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.400 What is your sense after watching the debate about how 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:50.400 much she might have been able to introduce herself to 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:51.920 those voters. 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.280 I think Harris did exactly what she needed to in 0:08:55.360 --> 0:09:00.040 this debate. You know, she didn't win it decisively, but 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.520 after a little bit of a shaky start in her 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:06.319 answer to the first question, she kind of gained in confidence, 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:10.200 she gained in strength. She was clearly across the policy detail, 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:14.319 and I think she would have assured many Americans who 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:18.960 are maybe uncertain of her strength in areas of national security, 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.360 which of course will play a big role in the election. 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:25.800 She would have reassured many of those voters. And I 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:29.840 think she's kind of successfully navigated the line between policy 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:35.000 detail and just vibes, you know, because vibes are important 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.760 in all seriousness. You know, her use of her facial 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:43.280 expressions and her body language was ready made for social media, 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:45.760 and that will have an impact on the campaign. The 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.280 Harror's campaign clearly thinks that is at least part of 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:53.240 an avenue to victory. And so I think in those senses, 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:57.800 for Harris, the debate was successful and she can she 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:00.120 and her supporters can kind of walk out of it 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.760 confident that they can hold their own against a man 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:09.600 who has dominated American politics for upwards of a decade. 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:13.120 Karmala Harris may have won the debate, but is she 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:17.160 offering Americans enough to win the election. That's after the break. 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:30.520 So I was raised as a middle class kid, and 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:33.280 I am actually the only person on this stage who 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:35.720 has a plan that is about lifting up the middle 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:37.360 class and working people of America. 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.000 And Makamala Harris spoke a lot about the economy during 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:45.320 the debate, about small business, about housing, about the middle class. 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.880 So beyond those sound bites, can you tell me about 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:51.360 what she's actually proposing. Yeah? 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.760 Sure, So you're right that Harris does have this focus 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.040 very much on the middle class. She talks about an 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:02.400 economy of opportunity and and lifting up the middle class. 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:06.760 I believe in the ambition, the aspirations, the dreams of 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:10.160 the American people, and that is why I imagine and 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:12.480 have actually a plan to build what I call an 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:13.800 opportunity economy. 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:18.200 Because here's the policies that she has announced in that vein. 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.520 Are you know, what we might call price gouging, So 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:26.160 legislating to stop big supermarkets from you know, taking advantage 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.240 of inflation and raising prices are the critical policy areas 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.920 as well, like housing for example, and housing affordability, which 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.199 is playing a similar kind of role in American politics 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:41.120 that it is in Australian politics. So Harris has purposed 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.959 what Australians would kind of recognize as essentially a first 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:49.960 homeowner's bonus of about twenty five thousand dollars, and is 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:54.120 also you know, promising things like continuing or increasing the 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:58.160 child tax credit. But these are all kind of piecemeal 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:04.000 reforms and they are far from radical. The reason those 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:07.080 policies are so specific is because any kind of substantial 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.880 reform at the moment in American politics, especially anything that 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:16.880 requires legislative reform, is basically impossible unless a candidate is 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.840 able to win both Congress and the White House, so 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:22.839 to have the House of Representatives and the Senate, they 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:27.240 can't really do any kind of substantial reform. I mean, 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:31.560 Harris indirectly acknowledges that when she's talking about abortion, which 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:33.680 has such a strong issue for her. You know, when 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:38.120 she says that she will sign a law codifying access 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.960 to abortion, codifying abortion rights the minute it hits her desk. 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:44.960 The only way to do that in the current system 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:49.319 is for one party to win a filibuster proof majority 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:53.200 in the Senate, and as things stand at the moment, 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.640 there is just no prospect of that, which means American 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:03.920 politics remains stuck in this stalemate, and neither candidate has 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.280 any kind of answer to the question of how American 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:09.240 politics gets past that. 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.640 And can we speak a bit about immigration, because that 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.480 was one of the issues that Trump clearly thought that 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:21.880 he could corner. Carmala Harrison. But the Democrats trying to 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:25.480 show that they are just as strong on borders as 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:29.439 the Republican Party is. So what is Karmala Harris's policy 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:30.080 approach there? 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.040 So I'm the only person on this stage who has 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:38.320 prosecuted transnational criminal organizations for the trafficking of guns, drugs, 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:39.600 and human beings. 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:45.400 And so Harris is focused on the border legislation that 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:49.920 has been before Congress as part of the Biden administration, 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:54.040 which many Democrats saw as quite a hardline approach to 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:59.160 immigration to effectively kind of closing the border at what 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.960 a judge to be times of considerable pressure. So when 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.120 more people are arriving at the border and asking to 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.040 be processed, you know the border will be closed. So 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.800 this was a what Biden has framed as a bipartisan 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.200 piece of legislation that the Republicans were about to pass 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.320 until Donald Trump effectively told them not to because it 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.160 would be politically more useful to him to not have 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:23.880 this issue go away. 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.600 That bill would have put more resources to allow us 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:32.320 to prosecute transnational criminal organizations for trafficking and guns, drugs, 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:34.560 and human beings. But you know what happened to that bill. 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.480 Donald Trump got on the phone, called up some folks 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.920 in Congress and said kill the bill. And you know why. 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.040 And so Harris has focused on that and as integrating 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:47.360 it into a kind of narrative that she is strong 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.040 on national security. You know, for Harris, that's a very 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.520 difficult line to walk because part of what she's also 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.760 trying to do, quite clearly is to mobilize the young 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:01.280 left wing base of the Democratic Party, which is clearly 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:05.640 opposed to these immigration reforms. I don't think Harris is 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.880 going to convince anybody who's you know, already bought Donald 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:13.600 Trump's line about immigration that she's the better option on 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:17.320 this issue. You know, if you're a kind of Trump 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.480 voter in a place like that, who's bought this stuff about, 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.480 you know, an invasion of immigrants and there's stuff about 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:25.320 eating your pets, you know, Harris is not going to 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:27.520 convince you. So I think it's kind of unclear to 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:31.840 me what Harris is trying to do here and how 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:33.400 she thinks she can walk that line. 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.640 And Trump also spoke a lot about how Baden and 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:43.080 Harris had destroyed the economy and about crime being out 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:47.040 of control. But in terms of how he would change things, 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.760 how he would address those issues, what is he offering. 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.520 I mean, Trump's offering what he's always offered. He's talking 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:57.120 about closing the border. He's talking about building a wall. 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.760 Some of his surrogates are talking about hugely significant reforms 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:06.000 like dismantling the Department of Homeland Security and integrating that 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:10.680 kind of border control responsibility into the military. So we're 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:15.840 talking about extremely radical reform to the American immigration system 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:20.640 alongside things like reinstituting Trump's so called Muslim ban, you know, 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:27.240 where particular ethnicities, particular nationalities were targeted for immigration bands. 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:30.040 In that sense, I think, you know, Harris's framing of 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.760 Trump wants to go back is kind of quite accurate. 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:35.600 You know, he wants to go back to the promises 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:40.800 of his first administration, but successfully implement them this time. 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:43.080 You know, that essentially would be the difference between a 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.360 first and a second Trump administration. You know, a second 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:50.240 administration will have learned the lessons of the first. 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:55.200 Yeah, Harris's campaign messaging is really leaning into this phrase 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:57.560 of we will not go back and that it's time 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.480 to turn the page, which really is about attacking Trump 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:04.439 more than it is about selling her own policies and 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:07.919 vision for America. So do you think that she is 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:12.679 offering Americans enough hope to be successful. 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.640 I think it's it's certainly true that Harris is offering 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:22.879 a stark contrast to Donald Trump, both in policy substance, 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:25.880 but also in the sense of the message that she's 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:29.600 offering to Americans. Because you're right, it's not necessarily particularly 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:34.080 detailed about the nature of that future, but the sentiment 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.800 underneath it is really important. And I think on the 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.080 debate stage, you know, where we had the kind of 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:44.160 close up visions of the two candidates, it was so 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:49.159 incredibly clear that there are two very different versions of 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.879 America that are pitted against each other in this election. 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:58.600 Those two versions of America have existed essentially since its foundation. 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:04.879 These are long held divisions, mostly along racial lines, that 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:08.200 were fought out and never resolved in the Civil War. 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:10.240 And what you could see on the debate stage was 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:14.000 the kind of physical embodiment of those divisions, and it's 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:17.600 not necessarily the policy substance or the kind of granular 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:21.800 technical policy detail underneath that that will be the deciding 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.760 factor in people's minds. It matters, of course, it matters, 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:29.080 but those it is that bigger question I think about 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.280 which of the two versions of America is going to 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.000 be victorious in November. 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.680 Emma, thank you so much for your time anytime, Thanks 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:58.439 for having me. Also in the news today, Victoria police 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:01.880 clashed with anti war protest ess outside a major defense 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:05.560 expo in Melbourne yesterday, with police using sponge grenades and 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:09.480 flash bang devices to control parts of the crowd. Police 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.439 say over twelve hundred people attended the protest outside the 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.680 venue hosting the three day event, which was showcasing weapons 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:20.080 technology from more than eight hundred domestic and international organizations. 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:27.320 And the National Anti Corruption Commission announce its currently investigating 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.480 six current or former politicians. The Commission said another three 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:35.679 investigations are focused on current or former parliamentary staff, but 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:40.080 did not specify any other details about the investigations. And 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:43.959 Ruby Jones seven am will be back tomorrow. Thanks for listening.