Speaker 1: I'll get a team before we get under way. Today,
Speaker 1: a blatant plug for me upcome a new mentoring program.
Speaker 1: As you know, I do me best to keep the
Speaker 1: advertising for my own programs to a minimum on this
Speaker 1: show because I think it's kind of annoying. But fuck it,
Speaker 1: today I'm breaking my own rule. So on July thirty,
Speaker 1: my new eight week online mentoring Extravaganza kicks off. And
Speaker 1: I've created this program for people who want to get
Speaker 1: more out of their time, talent, genetics, potential, skills, career
Speaker 1: and resources what they've got at their disposal. People who
Speaker 1: want to move above and beyond the groundhog danus of
Speaker 1: unconscious repetition, of frustration, of self sabotage and overthinking and underdoing,
Speaker 1: and the destructive habits and rituals, and the crappy results
Speaker 1: and the perpetual waiting for the right time that never comes.
Speaker 1: We'll be unpacking the human experience from a psychological, emotional, sociological, physiological,
Speaker 1: your body and behavioral perspective, and there'll be lots of
Speaker 1: room and time for interaction, conversation, and Q and A. So,
Speaker 1: if that doesn't sound terrible and you'd like to find
Speaker 1: out a little bit more about the program. Go to
Speaker 1: me website, me website and take a peek at the
Speaker 1: very detailed eight week overview. So just go to me
Speaker 1: dot com. Well, no it's not really, it's actually craigharper
Speaker 1: one word dot net. Click on education and see what's up. Alrighty,
Speaker 1: I'm with the show. I'll get a team. It's your project,
Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook, Jeffrey, Brian, Kevin Patrick, doctor Jeffrey Kevin Pat.
Speaker 1: I don't know what is your middle name? Do you
Speaker 1: have a middle name? I do.
Speaker 2: It's David.
Speaker 1: Of course it is David. That's quite biblical, quite old Testament.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Did you grow up in a religious household by any chance? No?
Speaker 2: But my hands were really big, so you know the statue?
Speaker 1: All right mate? Yeah, I know actly what you're talking
Speaker 1: about there, but we'll leave it there. How are you?
Speaker 1: How have you been? You probably missed us.
Speaker 2: Terribly? Yes, yes, I yes I did. How was that
Speaker 2: was that a get ounce?
Speaker 1: That was so fucking unconvincing? Try harder missed you guys.
Speaker 2: It's been like a month and I need a good update.
Speaker 2: What's happening?
Speaker 1: Well, it's winter as fuck here. It's about five degrees
Speaker 1: this morning, which is probably around forty degrees fahrenheit. And Tiff,
Speaker 1: are you dressing your animals up in clothes like half
Speaker 1: of the other people in Melbourne?
Speaker 3: Yes, I am yes?
Speaker 2: Always is what.
Speaker 1: Does what does Luna wear when you take her out
Speaker 1: for a stroll?
Speaker 3: She has got the most beautiful little button up jacket
Speaker 3: with a hood, with a little fluffy hood on it,
Speaker 3: and she's got some little boots called honey boots.
Speaker 1: She's got boots. I feel like that's bad for dogs.
Speaker 1: Don't they need the tactility of the earth beneath their feet?
Speaker 2: Not mine?
Speaker 3: She gets grit stuck in her also, remember last year
Speaker 3: she had to have surgery to get grit removed from
Speaker 3: her poor pads.
Speaker 2: So now she has to wear that.
Speaker 3: That's vet prescribed a tire.
Speaker 1: Is it?
Speaker 3: Though?
Speaker 1: By any chance does the vet sell the aforementioned a tire?
Speaker 3: No, they actually don't at all.
Speaker 1: Okay, And doctor Jeff, you are telling us she've got
Speaker 1: a big, wild, terrifying, protective animal at home. Tell our list.
Speaker 2: Please do not deliver, Do not deliver anything to our door.
Speaker 2: Do not try to sell us windows door to door
Speaker 2: knaves you you will be attacked by our Yorkie who
Speaker 2: believes he is a German shepherd.
Speaker 1: Two kilograms or four point four pounds of absolute terror exactly.
Speaker 1: That's hilarious.
Speaker 2: But we have no routes. I think there were bread
Speaker 2: to you clear out routes from the sewers in England
Speaker 2: or something, so.
Speaker 1: I think you might be right there. Yeah, it's funny
Speaker 1: how dogs were bred for different purpose. What's the purposes?
Speaker 1: Is that they purposes? I feel like it should be perpi.
Speaker 1: All right, enough about that. Hey, I want to talk
Speaker 1: to you about and you know our listeners don't know,
Speaker 1: but I give you no heads up. I don't say
Speaker 1: this is what I'd like to talk about today. We
Speaker 1: just talk for thirteen seconds and start recording. Today is
Speaker 1: no different and you can go wherever you want, or
Speaker 1: you can come up with something different. But I would
Speaker 1: like selfishly to talk about pain. Like to talk about pain.
Speaker 1: I'd like to talk about backs. I'd like to talk
Speaker 1: about what we call dodgy backs. Dodgybacks. That's like dodger
Speaker 1: is an Australian term just means like a dicky back.
Speaker 1: I guess you know backs, they're a bit fucked. I
Speaker 1: think every second person I know has got some kind
Speaker 1: of back issues, right, and of course you come from
Speaker 1: a surgical background as well. How many people do you
Speaker 1: reckon or maybe you actually know that the stats, but
Speaker 1: how many people suffer from back pain?
Speaker 2: At some point in your life? Over eighty some percent
Speaker 2: of people will have at least an episode of back pain,
Speaker 2: usually low back pain, but you know, not as many
Speaker 2: people have will call chronic ongoing yeah pain unless there's
Speaker 2: some sort of injury or reason for it.
Speaker 1: I feel like back well, I don't know. I've never
Speaker 1: given birth, obviously, and I don't know how much pain
Speaker 1: I've had in my life. But when I've stuffed my
Speaker 1: back a few times, I've had multiple injections into my
Speaker 1: spine of cortisone and which may or may not be
Speaker 1: a good idea. But when I've wrecked my lower back
Speaker 1: deadlifting and like bulged a disc and all of these
Speaker 1: things not ruptured, but and had all that that uteral
Speaker 1: pain where I literally for about a week, I couldn't
Speaker 1: I couldn't walk more than you know, five or ten
Speaker 1: tiny steps. Getting out of bed was pretty much impossible.
Speaker 1: So I had to sleep in a like a lounge
Speaker 1: chair sitting up, and it's it's funny, like now I'm
Speaker 1: relatively pain free and very grateful, But you don't realize
Speaker 1: how awesome it is to be pain free until you've
Speaker 1: been in excruciating pain. I feel like, a.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes you knew a little taste of it to
Speaker 2: appreciate what you have.
Speaker 1: What are the things that we should do to optimize
Speaker 1: back health that maybe we typically don't do so much well?
Speaker 2: I think first and foremost is to get up out
Speaker 2: of our chairs and move, and to be more specific,
Speaker 2: is to move our cores. And by cores, I don't
Speaker 2: just mean abdominals, I mean the entire circumferential core, specifically
Speaker 2: the muscles in the back and your obliques on the sides,
Speaker 2: et cetera.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean is that they say that they say
Speaker 1: that like sitting is the new smoking, you know, and
Speaker 1: because we you know, like I'm sitting right now in
Speaker 1: a comfy office chair literally with a cushion behind my back.
Speaker 1: You know, I could pretty much just hang off my
Speaker 1: ligaments and tendons like I don't need to, you know,
Speaker 1: Like it's so I'm so predisposed in this chair to
Speaker 1: be unaware of what's happening in terms of my core
Speaker 1: and my stabilizers and my spine because I guess subconsciously,
Speaker 1: my default setting is just set for comfort. So slumping
Speaker 1: is easy, right.
Speaker 2: Slumping is very easy. Some people have taken to sitting
Speaker 2: on a stool or an exercise bar because you have
Speaker 2: to use your stabilizer muscles and your core muscles to
Speaker 2: maintain that upright pasture while you still get to set somewhat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that the idea of not only sitting
Speaker 1: on an unstable surface, of course, like a ball where
Speaker 1: you've got to use your stabilizers to not fall on
Speaker 1: the floor, but even training, you know, like instability or
Speaker 1: training in an unstable environment, so to speak, where you're
Speaker 1: doing even things like a bench press on a ball
Speaker 1: instead of a bench press on a bench, where now
Speaker 1: you've got to balance the ball and you've got a
Speaker 1: bigger range of movement and you're you know, you scalp,
Speaker 1: your scapuli can kind of retract towards the spine and
Speaker 1: rather than get jammed. But also you've got to you know,
Speaker 1: all of these stabilizers through the shoulders and hips and
Speaker 1: stuff that you don't need so much when you're on
Speaker 1: a bench, all of a sudden they're required to do
Speaker 1: the movement. So I think training, you know, right person,
Speaker 1: of course, at the right level of conditioning, but training
Speaker 1: on a surface that's not so stable has got universal benefits.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you have to use the little stabilizer muscles.
Speaker 2: There's even a trend here on the side of the
Speaker 2: globe to do exercises on these vibration plates. Do you
Speaker 2: have that as well?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so the Yeah, they've been around
Speaker 1: for quite a while. I think they come out They
Speaker 1: came out here not long after there, but yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a big in that functional kind of exercise space. But
Speaker 1: what do you think of those those vibration plates.
Speaker 2: I think, look, yeah, they're fantastic. We we do our
Speaker 2: planks on them at the gym, and then we have
Speaker 2: a less expensive one at home. Sometimes we'll get on
Speaker 2: that and you know, just just hold a squat position
Speaker 2: or do some things. Plus there's some lymphatic drainage benefit
Speaker 2: that comes from this forty to sixty hertz vibration. And
Speaker 2: we have a I'll go one further. We have a
Speaker 2: new bed and the bed has these big speakers in it.
Speaker 2: Not that we want these electromagnetic forces, but it'll actually
Speaker 2: do like a fifteen minute vibration cycle. At night, you
Speaker 2: turn on a little timer and wow, it's like speaker
Speaker 2: gives you this forty to sixty hurts. I can't remember
Speaker 2: the exact frequency. Sort of minium massage. It's not that
Speaker 2: much of a massage, but you do get You do
Speaker 2: get some of the frequency that's good for lymphatic drainage,
Speaker 2: which we just don't do because we're not moving as
Speaker 2: well more as much. And you need to clear out
Speaker 2: your left because it's sort of the sewage system. If
Speaker 2: you can't clean out your learn, if you're more likely
Speaker 2: to have cancer and other problems.
Speaker 1: It's something I think, like our emphatic system and lymph drainage,
Speaker 1: I don't think. I mean I don't think about it
Speaker 1: a lot myself. So TIF do you think about that?
Speaker 3: I do, because in a lot of tests and DNA stuff,
Speaker 3: it's come up that my my limph system is a
Speaker 3: bit sluggish.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, Yeah, maybe I need to think about that.
Speaker 1: He speaking of instability and training on unstable surfaces. I
Speaker 1: did just a little bit of curious research the other day,
Speaker 1: doc on I was thinking about because I do a
Speaker 1: lot of I live near the beach, I walk on
Speaker 1: the soft sand a lot, and of course it's unstable.
Speaker 1: Of course, you know, it's not firm, so it requires
Speaker 1: more energy to you know, there's a bunch of physiological
Speaker 1: benefits of you know, your heart rate will be high,
Speaker 1: so a bit more fitness, a bit more muscular endurance,
Speaker 1: a bit more lower body strength required all of these things.
Speaker 1: But I was trying to I think at about what's
Speaker 1: the difference in calorie expenditure, and I forget the reference,
Speaker 1: but I actually found a couple of studies. But so
Speaker 1: my best kind of somewhat scientific estimation of just for example,
Speaker 1: me walking one for one hour at five kilometers per
Speaker 1: hour or three miles per hour, about the same in
Speaker 1: my body weight, which is about one eighty or eighty
Speaker 1: one or two kilos on a firm surface, two hundred
Speaker 1: and eighty calories per hour, give or take. Then if
Speaker 1: you do the exact same thing, same body, same weight,
Speaker 1: same distance, same speed, same time, it goes up to
Speaker 1: over seven hundred calories for an hour, Like it's something
Speaker 1: in the range of two point two to two point
Speaker 1: seven x doing the same. That's mind blowing, right.
Speaker 2: That's amazing. We should create treadmills that have you know,
Speaker 2: variable surface, So you have to deal with that.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I know, I mean it's so much you know,
Speaker 1: it's so much tougher even mentally, You've got to concentrate
Speaker 1: so much more. But all right, so let's if we
Speaker 1: can talk about backs a little bit. So you do
Speaker 1: you do stem cell activation for back pain? Am I
Speaker 1: right in saying that?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: How does that? What is that? How does that work? Well?
Speaker 2: First and foremost, you have to you have to know
Speaker 2: the exact source of the pain. Is it the disc,
Speaker 2: is it some of the joints in the back part
Speaker 2: of the spine, is it something else? You can't just
Speaker 2: treat it generically, right, So, years ago, the diagnosis for
Speaker 2: bacpin was called lumbargo and I didn't really speak to
Speaker 2: what was causing the pain, and we really need to
Speaker 2: know the specific anatomic source and confirm it. But you know,
Speaker 2: let's say it's the little joints in the back of
Speaker 2: the spine. You know, because those joints are like other
Speaker 2: joints in the body. When they get inflamed and dysfunctional,
Speaker 2: they're the cartilage in there wears down and that kind
Speaker 2: of that that causes this fisious cycle of more pain.
Speaker 2: Then more wear and tear and et cetera. So we
Speaker 2: we've now demonstrated clinically that you can use regenerative biologic
Speaker 2: so stem cells or stem cell derives, signal factors like
Speaker 2: exosomes from stem cells which are small vesicles and growth
Speaker 2: factors that you might find in the amniotic fluid and
Speaker 2: restimulate these joints to you know, make cartilage again and
Speaker 2: behave in a more youthful way and restore themselves like
Speaker 2: a younger person would restore an injury. So that's that's
Speaker 2: what we're doing.
Speaker 1: To me, it seems like a more logical protocol then,
Speaker 1: especially when you talk about the generation of disks and
Speaker 1: spine and you know, herniations and so I had a
Speaker 1: and spinal canal stenosis. When you think that adding like
Speaker 1: the common thinking is we'll go to the gym and
Speaker 1: get strong and your back will be better. But I
Speaker 1: think sometimes, depending on what you're doing at the gym,
Speaker 1: you can actually make your back worse. Do you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like, if there's already degeneration and you've
Speaker 1: already got stuff that's kind of, for one of a
Speaker 1: better word, crumbling, I don't know that kicking off with
Speaker 1: deadlift is going to be a great strategy.
Speaker 2: I know that's very true. But strengthen the pair spinals,
Speaker 2: the multipidi muscles, the muscles in the back, the obliques
Speaker 2: do help support the spine and offload the discs. So yes,
Speaker 2: you think about it. Those muscles are your own internal brace.
Speaker 2: So if you can create your own brace, then whatever
Speaker 2: you do, you have a lesser chance of aggravating your
Speaker 2: problems in your lower back.
Speaker 1: Have you ever had back stuff yourself back issues?
Speaker 3: I have.
Speaker 2: I was, truth be told, I was jogging one beautiful
Speaker 2: autumn day and I was hitting that stride that runners high.
Speaker 2: I was in my fourth mile. I don't know, that's
Speaker 2: like what you thousands of kilometers or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: it's the fifth or sixth kilometer. And I had the
Speaker 2: wonderful music going. I was just in my space and
Speaker 2: I had to come up over this little bridge and
Speaker 2: cross a road, and I saw the cars were stopped
Speaker 2: in both directions, so I can just frogger across here.
Speaker 2: Do you have frogger over there? You know what that is?
Speaker 2: I lost the game and there was a car in
Speaker 2: some type of middle lane I didn't see in it.
Speaker 2: It launched me into the air shoes are flying O,
Speaker 2: my god, and landed on my keister. Do you have
Speaker 2: keyster's over there too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we all have one. We just maybe not use
Speaker 1: that term.
Speaker 2: It's our behind landed on my behind, and then ever
Speaker 2: since then, I've had this U this the slow back
Speaker 2: is you calm down quite a bit. But if I
Speaker 2: stand in one period of time without without moving around,
Speaker 2: it's it's trouble. So I don't do the long surgeries
Speaker 2: and the if we go to a cocktail party, that's
Speaker 2: that's the devil, because you have to stand around at
Speaker 2: those things and pretend you're having a good time, you know,
Speaker 2: because standing one positions rough. If I'm moving around, exercising, running, whatever,
Speaker 2: I feel much better.
Speaker 1: Do you how much of how much of the pine
Speaker 1: that we This is a weak question, maybe it's unanswerable,
Speaker 1: but how much of the pine that we experience is
Speaker 1: purely physiological like neural whatever? And how much is it
Speaker 1: because we're paying attention to that? Like is there a
Speaker 1: cognitive or psychological component too?
Speaker 2: Enough?
Speaker 1: For want of a better term, the volume of our pain?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's a there's a gain control knob called
Speaker 2: the brain, and and you can amplify pain. You can
Speaker 2: deamplify pain by distracting yourself from it. You know, if
Speaker 2: you have back pain and I come up and punch
Speaker 2: in the arm, it'll take your mind off the back
Speaker 2: pain for a second. So plus, there are all these techniques, right,
Speaker 2: You can relaxation, meditation, maybe watching a movie or or
Speaker 2: something will take your mind away from other things. There
Speaker 2: there are always those those influences, you know, we call
Speaker 2: the brain influence. We call them super tentorial influences. Here
Speaker 2: hear that that term that means the cerebrum, the thinking
Speaker 2: part of the brain does does influence the volume of
Speaker 2: the pain, like you called it correctly.
Speaker 1: What's that TIF? Can you look up? Or maybe the
Speaker 1: doc knows it? Do you know that term? You know?
Speaker 1: People who don't feel pain? What is that? There's like
Speaker 1: a condition, it's like very very rare. But people who
Speaker 1: can't feel pain. I feel like that's not going to
Speaker 1: be the advantage you think it would be.
Speaker 2: There's a recent movie. Yeah it's comedic, but it's you know,
Speaker 2: the guy apparently has this syndrome. I've never seen it.
Speaker 2: I usually see the opposite, the people have pain and
Speaker 2: then some but people that don't have pain, probably don't
Speaker 2: show up too often. But this guy had it so
Speaker 2: bad in the movie How to Kick Himself Home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you wouldn't have. Like I mean, pain is
Speaker 1: also keeps you safe in a way. Have you found it? Tip?
Speaker 3: Congenital insensitivity to pain CIP.
Speaker 1: Wow? Who knew? How many people have that? Can you
Speaker 1: figure that out? Tip? So I want to talk to
Speaker 1: you a little bit about I know that you're only
Speaker 1: in your early forties, you know, and just stunning at that,
Speaker 1: but I'm sixty one. So you've got that to look
Speaker 1: forward to if you make it. In terms of in
Speaker 1: terms of aging and managing ourselves as we age, what
Speaker 1: are some of the things that people might not think
Speaker 1: about which you're going to keep them perhaps biologically younger
Speaker 1: than their chronology if you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I do, because we look at that with patients all
Speaker 2: the time. Now, your biological age versus your chronological age? Yes,
Speaker 2: what's your birthday? Right? So first and foremost is maintaining movement.
Speaker 2: If you move, your body has to adapt to survive,
Speaker 2: and that means it's in healthy estates. So if you
Speaker 2: could just do one simple thing, it's keep moving, keep exercising,
Speaker 2: lift heavy, go far. Yes, so it doesn't and it
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be two hours a day. It can
Speaker 2: be very strategic. You and I've talked about this previously, Craig.
Speaker 2: You know, working, working failure, high intensity, but more less
Speaker 2: volume's less quantity, more quality.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like stillness is good for your soul
Speaker 1: but bad for your body. I was just thinking about
Speaker 1: the irony there where we're encouraged so much to be still.
Speaker 1: Just fucking be still, you know, chill, take a chill
Speaker 1: pill and be still, but don't be still for too long.
Speaker 1: Then go and move like a crazy person. So yeah,
Speaker 1: if you have if.
Speaker 2: You exercise heavy and well, you will relax better, you'll
Speaker 2: have better stillness later and that afterwards.
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting that a lot of people who tip.
Speaker 1: Do you have an answer to that question? By the way,
Speaker 1: under a thousand people in the world. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel like that's it's probably we probably don't need millions
Speaker 1: of people walking around the earth with that, because I
Speaker 1: feel like that's going to be a problem. I've always
Speaker 1: thought Doc as someone who's spent most of his life
Speaker 1: in gyms, or a lot of his life in gyms.
Speaker 1: That often the people who really don't need to be
Speaker 1: there so much like live there. And then the people
Speaker 1: who really would benefit from being in the gym. You know,
Speaker 1: every human over forty five fifty, they're the people that
Speaker 1: tell themselves, I'm too old for the gym, or that's
Speaker 1: for the young people, or that's not for me, or
Speaker 1: you know, they'd be too embarrassed or self conscious or whatever.
Speaker 1: When the irony is that's you know, the right kind
Speaker 1: of gym with the right kind of program is the
Speaker 1: perfect environment for them in terms of longevity and health span, right.
Speaker 2: And would you rather be the oldest person in the
Speaker 2: gym or the youngest person in the old person and
Speaker 2: some Yeah, so.
Speaker 1: You're going to say the cemetery exactly exactly, And I
Speaker 1: think that just like you said, even just even just moving,
Speaker 1: like even just walking, you know, I didn't. I did
Speaker 1: an episode the other day where I was talking about
Speaker 1: just some really simple things that older people can do
Speaker 1: that don't require a gym, don't require equipment, don't require
Speaker 1: any particular skill, and they're so simple, but I still
Speaker 1: know that most people won't do them. Like what is
Speaker 1: what is what is that gap do you think between
Speaker 1: people they know what they should do or they know
Speaker 1: they should do something. And I'm sure you've dealt with
Speaker 1: this when you give people rehab or stuff where post
Speaker 1: surgery they've got to go do stuff and you know
Speaker 1: that they won't do it or they don't do it.
Speaker 1: What do you think that apprehension or that disconnect is.
Speaker 2: That's a tough one them. You know what, what's the
Speaker 2: motivation vitemin there that you know keeps them from I
Speaker 2: realized starting is hard, but once you start to see
Speaker 2: the results people, once you hit that, you know, that
Speaker 2: escape velocity there, then then you want to do it.
Speaker 2: So we've got it. We've got to move that needle.
Speaker 2: I don't know how to do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think part of it is that
Speaker 1: we love instant gratification, and when you start something that's
Speaker 1: going to be a process over time, we don't necessarily
Speaker 1: get that those instant results or even the short term
Speaker 1: results and just hanging in there while that happens. And
Speaker 1: as you said, you know, the peaks and troughs of motivation,
Speaker 1: which is part of the human experience, kind of means
Speaker 1: that many people just stop doing what they started within
Speaker 1: you know, a short period of time. So how long
Speaker 1: do you reckon it takes. I was going to say, sorry,
Speaker 1: how long do you think it takes? This is very
Speaker 1: not a you question, but I'm sure you've got an opinion,
Speaker 1: like to actually change ow operating system where it now.
Speaker 1: It becomes a habit. Now, I don't need to find
Speaker 1: motivation or inspiration or willpower or discipline because this is
Speaker 1: just me now.
Speaker 2: I think everyone's different there, and I think the more
Speaker 2: racalcilitoring people are, the longer it takes. But when we
Speaker 2: see this in the weight last side of things, people
Speaker 2: that you know lose that first ten or twenty pounds,
Speaker 2: they get enthusiastic about losing more, but just getting that
Speaker 2: started is the hard part. So I think it's highly variable.
Speaker 2: I don't think there is a one good answer fits everyone.
Speaker 1: And what's your thoughts on why you know people lose weight?
Speaker 1: And I know it's a myriad of reasons, but what
Speaker 1: might be near the top of the list why people
Speaker 1: who lose weight? Many of them like hYP percentage put
Speaker 1: it back on.
Speaker 2: Well, I think there what's in front of them is
Speaker 2: list here is or tends to weight gain. Right, we
Speaker 2: have a poor food, poor choices. The more convenient and
Speaker 2: less expensive choices tend to gain weight. Right, So if
Speaker 2: you're trying to save money or you just want to
Speaker 2: get something fast, you're more likely to have something that's
Speaker 2: not good for your metabolism in many ways, seed oils, carbohydrates,
Speaker 2: you know, even sugar. So I think that that's just
Speaker 2: simplus a taste better. Right, They've they've engineered these foods
Speaker 2: to get us to like them more. So you've got
Speaker 2: a we're fighting an uphill battle of you know, just
Speaker 2: like just like a drug habit, right, you know, it's
Speaker 2: it's it's it's easy to start, but it's hard to quit.
Speaker 1: When you when you're with patients who come to you
Speaker 1: for a very specific reason, like even site you know,
Speaker 1: to get the the back traded, you know, particular a
Speaker 1: particular problem with stem cell activation or whatever. They come
Speaker 1: through the door. I feel like you're the kind of
Speaker 1: doctor that you would talk to them about a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff. Like I feel like I could go
Speaker 1: to see you about my back and you asked me
Speaker 1: about my sleep and my diet and my relationship and
Speaker 1: my emotional state and my job, And is that part
Speaker 1: of your operating system?
Speaker 2: It is, and it's it's curated for each individual. You know,
Speaker 2: a lot of my clients are already you know, we'll
Speaker 2: call them biohackers or dialed in on a lot of
Speaker 2: these things. Some people are not, So we have to
Speaker 2: start a square one with like you said, diet, nutrition, sleep, exercise,
Speaker 2: you know, mindfulness, meditation, you know, blood tests, everything you know,
Speaker 2: you know, and sometimes we have to start slow with
Speaker 2: them because if I give people fifty things to change it,
Speaker 2: they're just going to be overwhelmed.
Speaker 1: And people are more receptive to this kind of integrated
Speaker 1: approach than you know, ten years ago, like it seems
Speaker 1: to be normalizing.
Speaker 2: Well, my client tele have changed as I've moved further
Speaker 2: and further from the sick care system into the prevention
Speaker 2: and wellness and regenitive system. I'm just I'm seeking clients
Speaker 2: who are more like minded, which is helped with that
Speaker 2: disconsonance that's here, at least here in our system, where
Speaker 2: you've got people who don't want to do the work
Speaker 2: to be healthy. They just want to take a pill
Speaker 2: in a system that wants to just give them a
Speaker 2: pill because that's what the financial incentives are, and then
Speaker 2: they're cranky when they can't get something else covered by
Speaker 2: their quote unquote insurance plan. I said to that in quotes,
Speaker 2: because I don't think they should to use the word
Speaker 2: insurance because they're so conflicted. Conflict of interest is abundant.
Speaker 1: There do you get Do you get any pushback or
Speaker 1: height from your medical colleagues when you talk about the
Speaker 1: sick care system when you use that term. I'm with you,
Speaker 1: by the way, one hundred percent agree with you. But
Speaker 1: does that does that ruffle feathers or your past giving
Speaker 1: a fuck?
Speaker 2: No? Well, I'm certainly past giving a fuck, but I
Speaker 2: think that that doesn't ruffle their feathers. I think they'd
Speaker 2: agree and be happy to whine, but very few are
Speaker 2: willing to act on it. They'd rather sit in the mediocrity,
Speaker 2: continue to drink the kool aid and follow the cookbook.
Speaker 2: So that's that's where we depart, and I think I've
Speaker 2: always departed, and and that that has been challenging in
Speaker 2: some in some ways that sometimes, but I think that
Speaker 2: my duty to the patient to give them better options
Speaker 2: and protect their access to what's new and potentially beneficial,
Speaker 2: versus following what the insurance will pay for, all as
Speaker 2: the hippocratic oath before it follows. Some insurance plans, you know, pamphlet.
Speaker 1: And was there a particular for you, a particular moment,
Speaker 1: light bulb moment or event or I don't know, tipping
Speaker 1: point where you went. Yeah, there's probably more to it
Speaker 1: than this where you started to move away. Did something happen?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were many milestones, but i'll recant one for you.
Speaker 2: I was early in my practice, probably the year two
Speaker 2: thousand maybe to year two thousand and one, and I
Speaker 2: was still young enough to take emergency room call. So
Speaker 2: when they would have traumas, you know, i'd get called
Speaker 2: to the emergency room, so brain traumas mostly. So I
Speaker 2: took care of one particular individual or I'll never forget
Speaker 2: the story, and I know exactly what she looks like
Speaker 2: from years ago. But she was having a fight with
Speaker 2: her boyfriend and somehow she ended up exiting a moving vehicle.
Speaker 2: I don't know if she was encouraged to exit it
Speaker 2: or she exited on her own accord, but she was
Speaker 2: out of the car and had a very significant head injury.
Speaker 2: So she required many operations middle of the night, you know,
Speaker 2: drains replace this that she was in the intensive care
Speaker 2: unit for months. She was my patient, So I spent
Speaker 2: countless You had up all the hours, days and days
Speaker 2: and days with her, miraculously due to a technique called
Speaker 2: creamy ectomy, where we basically remove half the skull to
Speaker 2: allow the brain to swell, which was pretty aggressive at
Speaker 2: that era, but it works.
Speaker 1: What you give will Tyke doc.
Speaker 2: In two thousand and one, but very few places were
Speaker 2: doing it, so we did a crany ectomy and later,
Speaker 2: you know, the brain selling improved and I was able
Speaker 2: to put the skull back in so many many operations.
Speaker 2: She was basically the Frankenstein Project. And she went off
Speaker 2: to a rehab facility and learned to walk and talk again,
Speaker 2: so very happy front page of the newspaper, such a
Speaker 2: miraculous story. And her insurance company was this managed care
Speaker 2: set of clowns who decided they weren't going to pay anything.
Speaker 2: Why because that one patient would have bankrupted their system.
Speaker 2: So they actually took took protective action, and they went
Speaker 2: against the group I was with. The group didn't want
Speaker 2: the hassle, so they said fine, they waved the bill.
Speaker 2: I didn't have control of it was a young pup
Speaker 2: at the time and the group was controlling it. And
Speaker 2: that was my thing to say, why if all this
Speaker 2: training and all this effort, and you know, sleepless nights
Speaker 2: and you know, all these things we did aren't reimbursable.
Speaker 2: I can't I can't survive on this. I can't do
Speaker 2: a career on it. You know, I'm basically doing I'm
Speaker 2: doing charity work. I did hundreds of thousands of dollars
Speaker 2: in charity work on that one patient. So, needless to
Speaker 2: say that, that was when I started to drop all
Speaker 2: we call contracts with insurance companies, and we call that
Speaker 2: out of network here. So it reduced the number of
Speaker 2: patients I was seeing, and at first I was not
Speaker 2: very busy, but then because you can spend more time
Speaker 2: with each patient, then yes, the quality was so good
Speaker 2: that you know, within a year I became you know,
Speaker 2: difficult to get into.
Speaker 1: And for you was I mean that that model where
Speaker 1: you can spend much longer with a patient has got
Speaker 1: to be more fulfilling and rewarding and aligning with who
Speaker 1: and how you want to be.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I mean these are relationships there, you know,
Speaker 2: can be very important relationships, right, you know, surgery and decisions,
Speaker 2: medical decisions, and you know you're less likely to miss
Speaker 2: something if you spend more time with the patient, you're
Speaker 2: less likely to have a medical error, and and you're
Speaker 2: more likely to find alternative and maybe better solutions than
Speaker 2: the quick and easy surgery. So that became my practice
Speaker 2: for many years, is morphed into what I'm doing now,
Speaker 2: which is try, like heck to avoid surgery and do
Speaker 2: all these other things.
Speaker 1: Was there one particular I don't know, modality or treatment
Speaker 1: option that was outside the allopathic medical paradigm, if that's
Speaker 1: the right term, that you got introduced something a bit
Speaker 1: eastern or weird in inverted commas, or something that was
Speaker 1: atypical within the world that you operated that first came
Speaker 1: to your attention and that I'll like open the door on,
Speaker 1: you know, alternative medicine or a more integrative approach. Was
Speaker 1: there one thing?
Speaker 2: No, I think I've always been open minded scientifically, but
Speaker 2: more recently, probably six or seven years ago, when I
Speaker 2: became reinvigorated with the whole stem cell and regenerative medicine field,
Speaker 2: that really caused me to you know, burst through the envelope,
Speaker 2: not just push it, but because this was so prevalent
Speaker 2: in Europe and in Asia, and so many Americans were
Speaker 2: leaving to go to these countries to get the treatment.
Speaker 2: It wasn't that far fetched. It just so to my colleagues,
Speaker 2: that's really where some of them still haven't. There's still
Speaker 2: the kool aid is so strong they can't break out
Speaker 2: of the teaching they had from twenty five years ago
Speaker 2: that was given to them by someone who has trained
Speaker 2: twenty five years before that.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so all of the things that like I
Speaker 1: hear on the you know when I'm listening to other
Speaker 1: American podcasts often Rogan where they're talking to somebody who's
Speaker 1: had to go to Mexico to get this treatment that's
Speaker 1: you know, changed their life or whatever. You know, Right,
Speaker 1: But of all of the things that people have to
Speaker 1: travel to get done, what what are the things that
Speaker 1: you would like to see happening in the States where
Speaker 1: it would become more accessible and not so tied up
Speaker 1: in whatever bureaucracy or red tape, where you could just go, look,
Speaker 1: this person needs that without having to jump through all
Speaker 1: the hoops.
Speaker 2: Well that's the great myth. It is available in the States,
Speaker 2: but we're not allowed to advertise it. We can't advertise
Speaker 2: on Google, we can't advertise on Facebook, we're not allowed
Speaker 2: to make any claims that we can cure or treat
Speaker 2: anything with regenitive biologics, PRP, stem cells, anything in that realm,
Speaker 2: even though there's great science and medical evidence behind it.
Speaker 2: Until our government says they decide it's proven, we can't say.
Speaker 2: We can't advertise. So that's why you hear about these
Speaker 2: clinics in Mexico and Central America and other places, and
Speaker 2: they widely advertise to the citizens of the US, and
Speaker 2: they perpetuate this myth that these treatments are not available
Speaker 2: in the US. They are, with the proper informed consent,
Speaker 2: they are available in the US.
Speaker 1: So why is it? Why are you allowed to which,
Speaker 1: of course I think you should be, but why can
Speaker 1: you practice? Why can you offer these services if it
Speaker 1: seems like anyway the government doesn't endorse them or believe in.
Speaker 2: Them because the government does not regulate the practice of medicine.
Speaker 2: The government regulates consumer claims on products and on devices.
Speaker 1: Right, So yeah, I'm like, I was looking at your
Speaker 1: website before, and I was thinking, like, in line with this,
Speaker 1: it must be hard to like, you can tell people
Speaker 1: what you do, but you can't make any amazing claims,
Speaker 1: can you? Even if those claims are one hundred percent true.
Speaker 2: Right, we can't make any claims that can show patient
Speaker 2: outcome stories and anecdotes, and I can put in literature
Speaker 2: references where certain treatments are proven in Europe. Yes, you know,
Speaker 2: but as soon as you cross the Atlantic Ocean and
Speaker 2: come to America, your body must change and then it's
Speaker 2: no longer proven. I don't know, it's You're right, it's ironic,
Speaker 2: and the strings are course pulled by those who stand
Speaker 2: to lose the most, big pharmacy companies, big implant manufacturers.
Speaker 2: Things like that.
Speaker 1: Just remind me, what's Rfk's new title in the Trump administration.
Speaker 1: Isn't he something like there's something for health, Minister for Health.
Speaker 2: Secretary of Health and Human Services, I believe is the title.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts around him in that job? That's
Speaker 1: not a lot of question.
Speaker 2: No, it's a great question. I think that he is
Speaker 2: open minded and going to shake up the status quo.
Speaker 2: So regardless of his stance on you know, vaccines or
Speaker 2: this or that, I do want this to be shaken up.
Speaker 2: I do want the status quo gone. I do want
Speaker 2: these bureaucrats out who are just you know, taking up
Speaker 2: our tax dollars and pushing around the same papers and
Speaker 2: perpetuating you know, you know, rules based on nonsense because
Speaker 2: it suits someone in a in a corporate iv ivy
Speaker 2: tower somewhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it kind of reminds me of a little
Speaker 1: bit of war, of all of these men in these
Speaker 1: high towers sending kids off to war that have never
Speaker 1: been in the war themselves. You know that anyway. Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: oh well, we'll see what It's going to be interesting
Speaker 1: to see how that plays out with him, because he's
Speaker 1: certainly RFK I'm talking about, is certainly not afraid of
Speaker 1: stepping up and speaking up.
Speaker 2: So oh I love that about him. I love I
Speaker 2: love that, we love we love shaking it up. You know,
Speaker 2: it hasn't trickled down yet. I still have colleagues in
Speaker 2: the stem cell field that are getting these warning letters
Speaker 2: from the FDA, which is under the purview of you know,
Speaker 2: Robert F. Kennedy junior. But so at the high level,
Speaker 2: he's got these great ideas, he's putting these people in place,
Speaker 2: but the low level bureaucrats haven't stepped in lane yet,
Speaker 2: and they're still cranking out the same old nonsense that
Speaker 2: we've been, you know, stuck with for decades.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've ever asked you this, and
Speaker 1: this is probably not because we're heading towards the finish line,
Speaker 1: but what are your thoughts broadly around therapeutic uses of psychedelics.
Speaker 1: Is there anything in that that you think is potentially valuable?
Speaker 2: I do. I think that that is a blossoming area.
Speaker 2: You know a lot of these are natural plant drived
Speaker 2: We're going to learn more about them. There's been research
Speaker 2: that's been over the last let's say five years, really
Speaker 2: kind of lit up here in the US. I know
Speaker 2: Johns Hopkins has had a big project going on. Timothy
Speaker 2: Ferris is behind a lot of that, and he's been
Speaker 2: stimulating the funding of that, and you know, whether it's
Speaker 2: microdosing or what have you. And I've seen some pieces
Speaker 2: on this where you know, the brain accumulates and stores
Speaker 2: and protects trauma, traumatic events because it's so painful to
Speaker 2: let those out. Well, this might be the very lock
Speaker 2: to let those out in a safe way and help people,
Speaker 2: you know, achieve nirvana when they've been so stuck in
Speaker 2: themselves for so many years of no fault of their own.
Speaker 1: Perhaps one of my friends has recently, how much I
Speaker 1: can say, let's just say, I was going to say
Speaker 1: what he's using, but we won't say that because probably
Speaker 1: not meant to. But yeah, just opened a particular door
Speaker 1: and like for him, game changer. Like and he's not
Speaker 1: a you know, he's like fifty five year old dude.
Speaker 1: He's not a drug taker, he's not a but just
Speaker 1: he has tried this particular thing and yeah, really quite
Speaker 1: a profound pose. And I'm not endorsing anything anyone, I'm
Speaker 1: not recommending anything, but for him, and me as an
Speaker 1: observer of him, I'm like, what are you doing? And
Speaker 1: he told me. I'm like, oh wow, So yeah, I
Speaker 1: think these things can whatever right thing, right dose, right
Speaker 1: person can really create some good outcomes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited about that field. So many people are
Speaker 2: stuck with these you know, psychological roadblocks, and you talk
Speaker 2: about pain amplification earlier. I mean one of those we
Speaker 2: see is the relationship between pain amplification and depression. And
Speaker 2: a lot of these depressive sources come from, you know,
Speaker 2: some usually childhood trauma, and people sometimes even know what
Speaker 2: that trauma is, they can't face that. So anything to
Speaker 2: open those doors and let out the demons would be fantastic.
Speaker 1: My training partner who's a walking experiment. I don't mean
Speaker 1: with steroid. So I mean he's just or he's always
Speaker 1: like he was a former pro bodybuilder, so you can
Speaker 1: imagine his background, right, But he's always just he's always
Speaker 1: trying new supplements, new products. His latest thing is nicotine.
Speaker 1: Like this is the guy that's never smoked, right, so
Speaker 1: he's doing nicotine patches. He is, he's on fire. He's like,
Speaker 1: he reckons, his brain works. But again, everyone not a recommendation.
Speaker 1: Like his brain works better, his pains less, his energy
Speaker 1: is more. Now, I'm sure over time that response will
Speaker 1: you know, drop and I'm sure he'll desensitize his receptors
Speaker 1: and all of that. But I don't know if we've
Speaker 1: spoken about nicotine before, But what do you think about that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't done the deep dive on nicotine yet,
Speaker 2: but you know, at a low dose it may not
Speaker 2: be very addictive. And of course, if you're using some
Speaker 2: type of I don't know's he putting it in his mouth.
Speaker 1: There's a thing he's actually using a pat it's actually
Speaker 1: a patch. So it's a kind of an idea into
Speaker 1: twenty four hour delivery.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you don't have the long complications you do
Speaker 2: with smoking it, or the mouth cancer issues with having
Speaker 2: a you know, tobacco in your mouth and that kind
Speaker 2: of thing. But it's it's becoming talked about more and more.
Speaker 2: And you know, nicotine is a necessary biochemical in our bodies,
Speaker 2: right we have you know, you talk about some of
Speaker 2: these these anti aging supplements like nmin or NAD plus.
Speaker 2: The end stands for nicotine, So I mean it's or
Speaker 2: nicotine of mine. It's it's some form of that. We
Speaker 2: do need nicotine. We have receptors for it. But yeah,
Speaker 2: you get too much, then, like you said, you get
Speaker 2: desensitized and you make more receptors and all of a
Speaker 2: sudden you're addicted. So I haven't done the deep dive,
Speaker 2: but I think there may be value there and we'll
Speaker 2: we'll continue to learn more and I'll report back to
Speaker 2: you at some point on that.
Speaker 1: I will say full disclosure. Every now and then, I
Speaker 1: will have a two milligram Nicorette, which is a chewing
Speaker 1: gum I probably had in my life. I've had ten.
Speaker 1: But and for me, it's a real again, everyone, not
Speaker 1: a recommendation. It's a real new tropic. It's like my
Speaker 1: let's say I've got to go and do a three
Speaker 1: hour workshop where I've got to talk for three hours.
Speaker 1: I've got to be switched on, president focused, articulate, you know,
Speaker 1: good recall whatever my normal is. And I can't really
Speaker 1: quantify this, but it feels I come about twenty percent better.
Speaker 1: It feels like I'm a bit sharper. I can focus
Speaker 1: for longer, I don't get distracted, and that's yeah. And
Speaker 1: because I take nothing, my receptors are like fresh, you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know, it's it's proven okay for me.
Speaker 2: I haven't traded myself, and I do a lot of
Speaker 2: self experimenting and biohacking, and I just that's what I
Speaker 2: haven't tried yet. But let me let me get back
Speaker 2: to showing that one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, give it a give it a go. I'll prescribe
Speaker 1: that for you free. Also the other thing just quickly
Speaker 1: before we go. Maybe we spoke about this, but what's
Speaker 1: getting a lot of airtime lightly I haven't spoke about
Speaker 1: last time. Not sure, but is the cognitive benefits of
Speaker 1: creatine that that seems to be getting a good run
Speaker 1: at the moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well not just cognitive, but but yes, and we're
Speaker 2: talking about probably a ten grams plus per day. Yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe up to twenty grams. So this is this is
Speaker 2: a lot. You got to space it out, yeah, throughout
Speaker 2: the day. It's a lot. But if you're making a
Speaker 2: protein shake, there's no reason why you couldn't add five
Speaker 2: or ten grams to that shake and you won't you know,
Speaker 2: you won't taste it because by itself, creatine is not
Speaker 2: very tasty, right, So but you know, mix it with
Speaker 2: some good fruits and bananas and whatever you like, and
Speaker 2: you protein shape and you know, space it out throughout
Speaker 2: the day. And I think it's going to be a
Speaker 2: longevity A longevity protein is this creatine.
Speaker 1: So I agree for sure. Well as always, Doc, we
Speaker 1: appreciate you. Tell tell our audience where they can read
Speaker 1: about you, learn about you, connect with you if you.
Speaker 2: Would, Thank you so much. Always great to talk to
Speaker 2: you guys. But our business is called RE Celebrate our
Speaker 2: E C E L L E B R A T E.
Speaker 2: You can find us at re celebrate dot com or
Speaker 2: on Instagram at re celebrate TikTok, at re Celebrate Facebook,
Speaker 2: at re Celebrate LinkedIn, I re Celebrate Pinterest, whatever whatever.
Speaker 2: We're there at re Celebrate Appreciate you.
Speaker 1: We'll say goodbye O here, but as always, Doc, thanks
Speaker 1: so much for being on the You project.
Speaker 2: Love it, Thank you,