Speaker 1: Approache production.
Speaker 2: Honorable Speaker, this bill contains amendments that update, clarify, and improve.
Speaker 3: Four different acts.
Speaker 2: One of the amendments in this bill is made in
Speaker 2: response to that advice.
Speaker 3: I'd like to take this.
Speaker 2: Opportunity to again acknowledge the Westbrook family and their continued
Speaker 2: efforts to advocate for an improved coronial system in Tasmania.
Speaker 2: Their advocacy was born out of the tragic loss of
Speaker 2: Eden Westbrook, and it is recognized that they provide a
Speaker 2: unique perspective on coronial processes in Tasmania. My heartfelt condolences
Speaker 2: remain with the Westbrooks.
Speaker 4: That's the Attorney General of Tasmania, the Honorable Guy Barnett,
Speaker 4: in Parliament last week. You've heard lots about mister Barnett
Speaker 4: on this podcast and his support Jason and Amanda their
Speaker 4: fight for Eden. Last week he tabled, for the second
Speaker 4: time in Parliament built change the way parents and family
Speaker 4: members can access coronial records.
Speaker 2: I will now outline the reasons for each of the
Speaker 2: proposed amendments.
Speaker 3: In turn, this bill amends.
Speaker 2: The Coroners Act to insert Section fifty eight Capital C
Speaker 2: that requires coronial records to be provided to the senior
Speaker 2: next of kin in certain circumstances. The Coiners Act specifies
Speaker 2: that the senior next of kin as the first available
Speaker 2: person in a list contained in Section three Capital A
Speaker 2: of the Act commencing with the deceased current spouse.
Speaker 3: Section three of the Actor find spouse.
Speaker 2: As including the other party to a significant relationship which
Speaker 2: within the meaning of the Relationships Act two thousand and three.
Speaker 3: The ac sits out.
Speaker 2: The procedures for investigations and in quests coroners, and in
Speaker 2: doing so allocates various rights.
Speaker 3: To the senior next of kin.
Speaker 2: It is therefore appropriate to extend the amendment to this person.
Speaker 2: Other persons may still apply for access to coronial records
Speaker 2: under Rule twenty six of the Coroner's Rules two thousand
Speaker 2: and six. Under section fifty eight Capitals see that senior
Speaker 2: next of kin may apply in writing for a coronial record.
Speaker 2: The definition of a coronial record includes any record held
Speaker 2: by the court in relation to an investigation of a
Speaker 2: debt under the Coroner's Act, and includes a post mortem report,
Speaker 2: a document on the court's file, and a transcript of
Speaker 2: recording of oral evidence given to the court. This definition
Speaker 2: includes all evidentiary material held by the court in relation
Speaker 2: to a coronial investigation of a death, including documents, photographs,
Speaker 2: and other material of evidence entury value. The definition also
Speaker 2: includes such records that can be lawfully provided to the
Speaker 2: court under this or any other act.
Speaker 4: We've heard a lot over the last two years about
Speaker 4: the autopsy photos that Jason and Amanda have been requesting
Speaker 4: to be able to pass on to doctor Byron Collins,
Speaker 4: and maybe now we're one step closer.
Speaker 2: That ensures that the court can obtain relevant information that
Speaker 2: it may not currently hold on the file to disclose
Speaker 2: to the senior next of kin. For example, this might
Speaker 2: include autopsy photographs held by the pathologist which informed the
Speaker 2: written report but are not on the court file. A
Speaker 2: coronial authority may not refuse a request unless satisfied on
Speaker 2: reasonable grounds, Honorable Speaker. The draft bill that was released
Speaker 2: for public consultation proposed an additional ground based on the
Speaker 2: impact to the health and wellbeing of the senior next
Speaker 2: of kin in receiving a coronial record. The draft proposed
Speaker 2: to refer a copy of the coronial record to a
Speaker 2: medical practitioner nominated by the senior next of kin. The
Speaker 2: intended purposes of this was to facilitate a discussion between
Speaker 2: the senior next of kin and medical practitioner about the record,
Speaker 2: and provide an opportunity to discuss any medical terminology used.
Speaker 2: After the discussion, if the senior next of kin still
Speaker 2: wished to have a copy of the record, the medical
Speaker 2: practitioner could release it to them. The bill before the
Speaker 2: Parliament has been amended to remove this ground based on
Speaker 2: the feedback from mister and Missus Westbrook and consideration of
Speaker 2: submissions and approaches in other jurisdictions. This recognizes that the
Speaker 2: question of whether to seek medical advice or counseling before
Speaker 2: viewing being the records provided is ultimately a matter for
Speaker 2: the senior next of kin and not appropriate to mandate
Speaker 2: in the bill.
Speaker 3: The bill was also amended, based on.
Speaker 2: Their feedback and with consideration of submissions and other jurisdictions,
Speaker 2: to require the coronial authority to apply to all coronial records,
Speaker 2: not just post mortem records and reports. I have personally
Speaker 2: met with Jason and Amanda Westbrook and am grateful for
Speaker 2: the information.
Speaker 3: They have shared with me and for the time they.
Speaker 2: Have taken to provide feedback on these amendments.
Speaker 3: Since the bill was tabled.
Speaker 2: I have continued to consider these issues and now flag
Speaker 2: my intention to propose further amendments in the committee stage
Speaker 2: to ensure the rights of senior next of kin to
Speaker 2: appropriate records are promoted. These amendments will replace the power
Speaker 2: to impose conditions on the use or release of the
Speaker 2: record with a power only to order that the record
Speaker 2: not be published, ensuring that use of records by senior
Speaker 2: next of kin is not subject to other kinds of restriction.
Speaker 2: Insert a ground to refuse a request for a record
Speaker 2: if a coroner is satisfied on reasonable grounds that it
Speaker 2: would be contrary to the public interest to release the
Speaker 2: record due to the release having an unreasonable intrusion on
Speaker 2: the privacy of another person other than the diseased person
Speaker 2: to which the request relates. The record can still be
Speaker 2: released in redacted form. And insert an appeal provision to
Speaker 2: either the Chief Magistrate or the Supreme Court so a
Speaker 2: senior next of kin has a clearer process for review.
Speaker 3: Of a coroner's decision.
Speaker 2: The amendments to the Coroner's Act provide for a clear
Speaker 2: and direct right of access by senior next of kin
Speaker 2: to coronial records. This is essential in the spirit of
Speaker 2: open justice to ensure transparency accountability and public confidence in
Speaker 2: our justice system. I also hope that the provision of
Speaker 2: this material can provide some amount of closure to families
Speaker 2: following an investigation into a death. I'd like to express
Speaker 2: my appreciation for the hard work of the Chief Coroner,
Speaker 2: the coroners, the Coronial Division, and many others involved in
Speaker 2: this jurisdiction.
Speaker 3: They do a great service to the community.
Speaker 2: With over one thousand reportable deaths investigated in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four and thirty one inquests that year.
Speaker 3: They have worked to facilitate.
Speaker 2: Access to records under their current practices and rules and
Speaker 2: provide support to family members every day. I particularly note
Speaker 2: the great initiative of a dedicated Coronial liaison officer who
Speaker 2: assists family members understand the coronial process and comes to
Speaker 2: terms with the grief.
Speaker 3: Of losing loved ones.
Speaker 2: There have been understandable concerns in the community that the
Speaker 2: right balance of access to records has not been clearly
Speaker 2: provided for in the legislation to date. This bill gets
Speaker 2: the balance right to ensure access to these records by
Speaker 2: senior next of kin, acknowledging the sensitive and private nature
Speaker 2: of these records.
Speaker 4: This feels like a real win for Jason and Amanda
Speaker 4: and everyone behind the scenes. It's been pushing for this change.
Speaker 4: It's not the end, but it does feel like it's
Speaker 4: a great step forward. In the second part of this episode,
Speaker 4: I want to speak about some activity on social media.
Speaker 4: It's really caught the team behind the scenes and made
Speaker 4: them ask some questions and probe for more answers. It
Speaker 4: relates to the girl that we've called Kate throughout up
Speaker 4: this case. Now, to make it clear, we're not alleging
Speaker 4: Kate had anything to do with Eden's death. We're simply
Speaker 4: looking at what we know as fact. Kate was never
Speaker 4: formally interviewed or had a statement taken by police, despite
Speaker 4: evidence linking her to the event, things like her Facebook
Speaker 4: posts soon after Eden's death or the comments she made
Speaker 4: to Bobby Lee, Eden's sister in the park. Kate was
Speaker 4: also suffering a mental health episode that required hospitalization straight
Speaker 4: after Eden's death. On Australia Day in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 4: You've heard a whistleblower turned up at Jason and Amanda's
Speaker 4: house to say that two people were involved in Eden's death.
Speaker 4: In February of twenty twenty three, information was passed to
Speaker 4: the Commission of Inquiry and they made a formal written
Speaker 4: referral to investigate the allegation. A senior police officer from
Speaker 4: Saint Helen's was tasked with that investigation. In a recent
Speaker 4: ARTI submission by Jackie Lambe, a redacted copy of that
Speaker 4: investigation was obtained. It did show that the girl we
Speaker 4: call Kate was spoken to by police with no written
Speaker 4: statement taken. There was also an interview with another man
Speaker 4: who was already in prison. It was done by another
Speaker 4: police officer on or around the twenty sixth of April
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty three, and it was sent via email
Speaker 4: to the senior officer conducting the investigation in Saint Helen's.
Speaker 4: We've had some AI voices read the emails. The email said.
Speaker 5: He had absolutely no idea what he was talking about,
Speaker 5: stated he didn't even know who Eden was and didn't
Speaker 5: know anything about anyone committing suicide in Saint Helen's.
Speaker 4: The senior officer replied and said, this is the exact
Speaker 4: same response we got from that BEEP indicates the name
Speaker 4: has been redacted. The senior officer also sent another officer
Speaker 4: to interview Kate via email on the twentieth of April.
Speaker 4: He asked the officer to ask her about a conversation.
Speaker 4: The conversation is the one that's alleged to have occurred
Speaker 4: between Bobby Lee and the park shortly after Eden's death.
Speaker 4: Here's an excerpt from my call with Bobby Lee in
Speaker 4: the twenty twenty four episode.
Speaker 1: So directly coming up from town.
Speaker 6: There was and the best way I just sort of
Speaker 6: explain it is at the time just looked like I
Speaker 6: could tell that it was a person, obviously, but it
Speaker 6: was like a black hole coming quite quickly at me.
Speaker 6: Like arms were like sprawled out as well.
Speaker 7: A person was wearing a hoodie and had their head
Speaker 7: right down and they were running directly up to us,
Speaker 7: and like it made me step back because of this person.
Speaker 1: But they've grabbed me both.
Speaker 6: Sides of my shoulders, and in that moment, I knew
Speaker 6: who that was.
Speaker 1: I went to school with this person.
Speaker 6: She was a younger than me, was spent had many
Speaker 6: a classes together. We've been at the same house parties,
Speaker 6: we've been at the pub. I know who this person is.
Speaker 6: I know that I grew up with this person. And
Speaker 6: she's grabbed me on the shoulders and she was hysterical,
Speaker 6: like in her whole body movement in her.
Speaker 8: Like she was clearly hysterically crying, and she just held
Speaker 8: me very tightly and was apologizing refusedly like it like
Speaker 8: and I mean like I'm so sorry, sorry, I'm so sorry,
Speaker 8: And the words weren't even coming out as full sentences,
Speaker 8: like it was just this repetitive.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. Then she came out and she mentioned
Speaker 1: I could have stopped it. I could have stopped that.
Speaker 6: I was there, and she and in between these words
Speaker 6: it was I'm so sorry, you know, Like it was
Speaker 6: this constant like rambling of I'm so sorry, and then
Speaker 6: in the midst of that, it's I was there.
Speaker 1: I could have stopped her, like I could, I could have.
Speaker 1: It was all this and I'm like fucking done in
Speaker 1: this moment, and pulled them off me and I've told
Speaker 1: her to fuck off.
Speaker 6: And I did it extremely aggressively, like and I mean,
Speaker 6: like every ounce of anger that was in me. I
Speaker 6: was at the top of my voice and I told
Speaker 6: it a fuck off.
Speaker 1: My friends were absolutely beside themselves. They couldn't bullieves if
Speaker 1: this had just happened. They were like, you need to
Speaker 1: go to the fleet. I didn't want to.
Speaker 6: I didn't want to go to a police I didn't
Speaker 6: want to talk to police. I hadn't had a good
Speaker 6: experience in this class with them since Ed dying, and
Speaker 6: I just didn't want to have to be around them again.
Speaker 6: And my friends like, no, that was weird. You've got
Speaker 6: to go and be to the police. So I've gone
Speaker 6: into the police station. I honestly didn't want to be there,
Speaker 6: and I probably appeared that I didn't want to be there.
Speaker 6: And I was like, look, my sister passed away up there,
Speaker 6: and they like, we know who you are. It's a
Speaker 6: small town.
Speaker 1: I knew that.
Speaker 9: I was like, well, I was just up at the
Speaker 9: park and I had this person run up to me
Speaker 9: and she's come and she sort of screamed in my face,
Speaker 9: and I repeated that she's told me that she was
Speaker 9: there last night with my sister and that she could.
Speaker 1: Have stopped whatever happened, whatever it was that happened.
Speaker 6: She's at that point in time, I'm going with everything,
Speaker 6: and I'm like, she could have stopped whatever it was happened,
Speaker 6: and I think that you should probably go and talk
Speaker 6: to her.
Speaker 1: And they told me pretty much that I was making
Speaker 1: a big deal out of upping.
Speaker 10: And that I was very high in my emotions at
Speaker 10: the time, and I probably felt like everything that anybody
Speaker 10: was saying to me was related to what was happening
Speaker 10: that night basically completely disregarded me.
Speaker 1: I didn't stay around for the end of the conversation.
Speaker 6: I probably was even like, okay, I was probably a
Speaker 6: little rude as I left, to be honest, because.
Speaker 1: I was angry at that point in time, and that
Speaker 1: was that.
Speaker 6: That was the last of it until the most recent
Speaker 6: little bit of information.
Speaker 1: Has it been brought up again.
Speaker 4: The senior officer stated in his email.
Speaker 5: If she remembers having it, I'd like to know who
Speaker 5: she was speaking with, where the information came from, and
Speaker 5: why specifically it was claimed not to be a suicide.
Speaker 5: I don't think a statement from is necessary unless she
Speaker 5: ends up having some genuine information.
Speaker 4: There was no response posts this conversation that was provided
Speaker 4: from the RCER disclosure. On April twenty twenty five, at
Speaker 4: eleven twenty six am, the girl we call Kate post
Speaker 4: it to social media. The post seemed like was written
Speaker 4: in third person and was referring to the girl. He's
Speaker 4: An excerpt from that post read by an AI voice.
Speaker 11: The girl was having a manic episode, similar behavior to
Speaker 11: someone on drugs, no sleep, delirious, etc. Of bipolar, which
Speaker 11: is a danger to themselves and not others. She had
Speaker 11: not slept in about a week and was walking this
Speaker 11: each night, tripping out. When she first heard of Eden's death,
Speaker 11: the fifteen year old committing suicide rocked the already heightened
Speaker 11: emotions in her, freaked her out and made her question
Speaker 11: if she had passed her when she was alive. She
Speaker 11: felt guilty because she had walked the street that night,
Speaker 11: and if she had run into Eden, she would have
Speaker 11: been a safe person to talk to. She certainly would
Speaker 11: have talked Eden out of it if the opportunity was there.
Speaker 11: At the worst point of her episode, a few days later,
Speaker 11: she was still not sleeping and she started talking weird,
Speaker 11: incoherent shit to people, which is what made a lot
Speaker 11: of people think she was involved, such as she was
Speaker 11: there at the time or had a suicide packed with Eden.
Speaker 11: She unfortunately told the grieving eldest sister she should have
Speaker 11: helped her. She felt personally responsible as she had patrolled
Speaker 11: the streets but didn't see her. The delirium got so
Speaker 11: bad she thought she was somehow spiritually connected to Eden.
Speaker 11: Three days later, she went to North Side for her episode,
Speaker 11: stayed three weeks and came out heavily medicated. She speaks
Speaker 11: to the police and tells them once again her side
Speaker 11: of the story. She stated that it was a clear
Speaker 11: cut suicide. She stated that it was unfair to put
Speaker 11: responsibility on others.
Speaker 4: It's pretty clear from the Facebook posts made by Kate
Speaker 4: that she admits to walking or patrolling the streets of
Speaker 4: Saint Helen's on the relevant nine. She also admits to
Speaker 4: telling Eden's older sister that she could have saved Eden.
Speaker 4: It appears that she was well aware of Eden's suicide
Speaker 4: and had said various things to people about it. There
Speaker 4: was no affidavit taken from Kate for the coroner. On
Speaker 4: the evidence available, there's no record of Kate's accounts to police.
Speaker 4: The police to date have refused over the years to
Speaker 4: interview her formerly and take a statement.