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Speaker 1: Approache production.

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Speaker 2: Honorable Speaker, this bill contains amendments that update, clarify, and improve.

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Speaker 3: Four different acts.

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Speaker 2: One of the amendments in this bill is made in

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Speaker 2: response to that advice.

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Speaker 3: I'd like to take this.

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Speaker 2: Opportunity to again acknowledge the Westbrook family and their continued

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Speaker 2: efforts to advocate for an improved coronial system in Tasmania.

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Speaker 2: Their advocacy was born out of the tragic loss of

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Speaker 2: Eden Westbrook, and it is recognized that they provide a

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Speaker 2: unique perspective on coronial processes in Tasmania. My heartfelt condolences

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Speaker 2: remain with the Westbrooks.

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Speaker 4: That's the Attorney General of Tasmania, the Honorable Guy Barnett,

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Speaker 4: in Parliament last week. You've heard lots about mister Barnett

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Speaker 4: on this podcast and his support Jason and Amanda their

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Speaker 4: fight for Eden. Last week he tabled, for the second

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Speaker 4: time in Parliament built change the way parents and family

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Speaker 4: members can access coronial records.

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Speaker 2: I will now outline the reasons for each of the

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Speaker 2: proposed amendments.

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Speaker 3: In turn, this bill amends.

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Speaker 2: The Coroners Act to insert Section fifty eight Capital C

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Speaker 2: that requires coronial records to be provided to the senior

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Speaker 2: next of kin in certain circumstances. The Coiners Act specifies

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Speaker 2: that the senior next of kin as the first available

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Speaker 2: person in a list contained in Section three Capital A

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Speaker 2: of the Act commencing with the deceased current spouse.

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Speaker 3: Section three of the Actor find spouse.

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Speaker 2: As including the other party to a significant relationship which

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Speaker 2: within the meaning of the Relationships Act two thousand and three.

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Speaker 3: The ac sits out.

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Speaker 2: The procedures for investigations and in quests coroners, and in

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Speaker 2: doing so allocates various rights.

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Speaker 3: To the senior next of kin.

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Speaker 2: It is therefore appropriate to extend the amendment to this person.

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Speaker 2: Other persons may still apply for access to coronial records

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Speaker 2: under Rule twenty six of the Coroner's Rules two thousand

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Speaker 2: and six. Under section fifty eight Capitals see that senior

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Speaker 2: next of kin may apply in writing for a coronial record.

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Speaker 2: The definition of a coronial record includes any record held

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Speaker 2: by the court in relation to an investigation of a

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Speaker 2: debt under the Coroner's Act, and includes a post mortem report,

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Speaker 2: a document on the court's file, and a transcript of

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Speaker 2: recording of oral evidence given to the court. This definition

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Speaker 2: includes all evidentiary material held by the court in relation

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Speaker 2: to a coronial investigation of a death, including documents, photographs,

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Speaker 2: and other material of evidence entury value. The definition also

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Speaker 2: includes such records that can be lawfully provided to the

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Speaker 2: court under this or any other act.

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Speaker 4: We've heard a lot over the last two years about

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Speaker 4: the autopsy photos that Jason and Amanda have been requesting

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Speaker 4: to be able to pass on to doctor Byron Collins,

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Speaker 4: and maybe now we're one step closer.

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Speaker 2: That ensures that the court can obtain relevant information that

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Speaker 2: it may not currently hold on the file to disclose

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Speaker 2: to the senior next of kin. For example, this might

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Speaker 2: include autopsy photographs held by the pathologist which informed the

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Speaker 2: written report but are not on the court file. A

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Speaker 2: coronial authority may not refuse a request unless satisfied on

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Speaker 2: reasonable grounds, Honorable Speaker. The draft bill that was released

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Speaker 2: for public consultation proposed an additional ground based on the

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Speaker 2: impact to the health and wellbeing of the senior next

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Speaker 2: of kin in receiving a coronial record. The draft proposed

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Speaker 2: to refer a copy of the coronial record to a

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Speaker 2: medical practitioner nominated by the senior next of kin. The

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Speaker 2: intended purposes of this was to facilitate a discussion between

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Speaker 2: the senior next of kin and medical practitioner about the record,

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Speaker 2: and provide an opportunity to discuss any medical terminology used.

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Speaker 2: After the discussion, if the senior next of kin still

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Speaker 2: wished to have a copy of the record, the medical

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Speaker 2: practitioner could release it to them. The bill before the

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Speaker 2: Parliament has been amended to remove this ground based on

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Speaker 2: the feedback from mister and Missus Westbrook and consideration of

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Speaker 2: submissions and approaches in other jurisdictions. This recognizes that the

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Speaker 2: question of whether to seek medical advice or counseling before

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Speaker 2: viewing being the records provided is ultimately a matter for

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Speaker 2: the senior next of kin and not appropriate to mandate

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Speaker 2: in the bill.

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Speaker 3: The bill was also amended, based on.

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Speaker 2: Their feedback and with consideration of submissions and other jurisdictions,

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Speaker 2: to require the coronial authority to apply to all coronial records,

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Speaker 2: not just post mortem records and reports. I have personally

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Speaker 2: met with Jason and Amanda Westbrook and am grateful for

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Speaker 2: the information.

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Speaker 3: They have shared with me and for the time they.

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Speaker 2: Have taken to provide feedback on these amendments.

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Speaker 3: Since the bill was tabled.

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Speaker 2: I have continued to consider these issues and now flag

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Speaker 2: my intention to propose further amendments in the committee stage

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Speaker 2: to ensure the rights of senior next of kin to

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Speaker 2: appropriate records are promoted. These amendments will replace the power

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Speaker 2: to impose conditions on the use or release of the

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Speaker 2: record with a power only to order that the record

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Speaker 2: not be published, ensuring that use of records by senior

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Speaker 2: next of kin is not subject to other kinds of restriction.

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Speaker 2: Insert a ground to refuse a request for a record

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Speaker 2: if a coroner is satisfied on reasonable grounds that it

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Speaker 2: would be contrary to the public interest to release the

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Speaker 2: record due to the release having an unreasonable intrusion on

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Speaker 2: the privacy of another person other than the diseased person

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Speaker 2: to which the request relates. The record can still be

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Speaker 2: released in redacted form. And insert an appeal provision to

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Speaker 2: either the Chief Magistrate or the Supreme Court so a

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Speaker 2: senior next of kin has a clearer process for review.

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Speaker 3: Of a coroner's decision.

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Speaker 2: The amendments to the Coroner's Act provide for a clear

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Speaker 2: and direct right of access by senior next of kin

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Speaker 2: to coronial records. This is essential in the spirit of

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Speaker 2: open justice to ensure transparency accountability and public confidence in

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Speaker 2: our justice system. I also hope that the provision of

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Speaker 2: this material can provide some amount of closure to families

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Speaker 2: following an investigation into a death. I'd like to express

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Speaker 2: my appreciation for the hard work of the Chief Coroner,

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Speaker 2: the coroners, the Coronial Division, and many others involved in

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Speaker 2: this jurisdiction.

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Speaker 3: They do a great service to the community.

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Speaker 2: With over one thousand reportable deaths investigated in twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four and thirty one inquests that year.

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Speaker 3: They have worked to facilitate.

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Speaker 2: Access to records under their current practices and rules and

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Speaker 2: provide support to family members every day. I particularly note

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Speaker 2: the great initiative of a dedicated Coronial liaison officer who

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Speaker 2: assists family members understand the coronial process and comes to

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Speaker 2: terms with the grief.

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Speaker 3: Of losing loved ones.

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Speaker 2: There have been understandable concerns in the community that the

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Speaker 2: right balance of access to records has not been clearly

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Speaker 2: provided for in the legislation to date. This bill gets

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Speaker 2: the balance right to ensure access to these records by

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Speaker 2: senior next of kin, acknowledging the sensitive and private nature

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Speaker 2: of these records.

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Speaker 4: This feels like a real win for Jason and Amanda

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Speaker 4: and everyone behind the scenes. It's been pushing for this change.

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Speaker 4: It's not the end, but it does feel like it's

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Speaker 4: a great step forward. In the second part of this episode,

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Speaker 4: I want to speak about some activity on social media.

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Speaker 4: It's really caught the team behind the scenes and made

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Speaker 4: them ask some questions and probe for more answers. It

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Speaker 4: relates to the girl that we've called Kate throughout up

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Speaker 4: this case. Now, to make it clear, we're not alleging

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Speaker 4: Kate had anything to do with Eden's death. We're simply

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Speaker 4: looking at what we know as fact. Kate was never

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Speaker 4: formally interviewed or had a statement taken by police, despite

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Speaker 4: evidence linking her to the event, things like her Facebook

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Speaker 4: posts soon after Eden's death or the comments she made

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Speaker 4: to Bobby Lee, Eden's sister in the park. Kate was

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Speaker 4: also suffering a mental health episode that required hospitalization straight

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Speaker 4: after Eden's death. On Australia Day in twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 4: You've heard a whistleblower turned up at Jason and Amanda's

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Speaker 4: house to say that two people were involved in Eden's death.

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Speaker 4: In February of twenty twenty three, information was passed to

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Speaker 4: the Commission of Inquiry and they made a formal written

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Speaker 4: referral to investigate the allegation. A senior police officer from

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Speaker 4: Saint Helen's was tasked with that investigation. In a recent

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Speaker 4: ARTI submission by Jackie Lambe, a redacted copy of that

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Speaker 4: investigation was obtained. It did show that the girl we

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Speaker 4: call Kate was spoken to by police with no written

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Speaker 4: statement taken. There was also an interview with another man

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Speaker 4: who was already in prison. It was done by another

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Speaker 4: police officer on or around the twenty sixth of April

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Speaker 4: in twenty twenty three, and it was sent via email

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Speaker 4: to the senior officer conducting the investigation in Saint Helen's.

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Speaker 4: We've had some AI voices read the emails. The email said.

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Speaker 5: He had absolutely no idea what he was talking about,

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Speaker 5: stated he didn't even know who Eden was and didn't

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Speaker 5: know anything about anyone committing suicide in Saint Helen's.

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Speaker 4: The senior officer replied and said, this is the exact

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Speaker 4: same response we got from that BEEP indicates the name

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Speaker 4: has been redacted. The senior officer also sent another officer

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Speaker 4: to interview Kate via email on the twentieth of April.

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Speaker 4: He asked the officer to ask her about a conversation.

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Speaker 4: The conversation is the one that's alleged to have occurred

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Speaker 4: between Bobby Lee and the park shortly after Eden's death.

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Speaker 4: Here's an excerpt from my call with Bobby Lee in

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Speaker 4: the twenty twenty four episode.

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Speaker 1: So directly coming up from town.

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Speaker 6: There was and the best way I just sort of

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Speaker 6: explain it is at the time just looked like I

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Speaker 6: could tell that it was a person, obviously, but it

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Speaker 6: was like a black hole coming quite quickly at me.

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Speaker 6: Like arms were like sprawled out as well.

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Speaker 7: A person was wearing a hoodie and had their head

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Speaker 7: right down and they were running directly up to us,

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Speaker 7: and like it made me step back because of this person.

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Speaker 1: But they've grabbed me both.

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Speaker 6: Sides of my shoulders, and in that moment, I knew

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Speaker 6: who that was.

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Speaker 1: I went to school with this person.

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Speaker 6: She was a younger than me, was spent had many

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Speaker 6: a classes together. We've been at the same house parties,

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Speaker 6: we've been at the pub. I know who this person is.

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Speaker 6: I know that I grew up with this person. And

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Speaker 6: she's grabbed me on the shoulders and she was hysterical,

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Speaker 6: like in her whole body movement in her.

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Speaker 8: Like she was clearly hysterically crying, and she just held

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Speaker 8: me very tightly and was apologizing refusedly like it like

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Speaker 8: and I mean like I'm so sorry, sorry, I'm so sorry,

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Speaker 8: And the words weren't even coming out as full sentences,

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Speaker 8: like it was just this repetitive.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. Then she came out and she mentioned

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Speaker 1: I could have stopped it. I could have stopped that.

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Speaker 6: I was there, and she and in between these words

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Speaker 6: it was I'm so sorry, you know, Like it was

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Speaker 6: this constant like rambling of I'm so sorry, and then

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Speaker 6: in the midst of that, it's I was there.

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Speaker 1: I could have stopped her, like I could, I could have.

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Speaker 1: It was all this and I'm like fucking done in

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Speaker 1: this moment, and pulled them off me and I've told

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Speaker 1: her to fuck off.

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Speaker 6: And I did it extremely aggressively, like and I mean,

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Speaker 6: like every ounce of anger that was in me. I

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Speaker 6: was at the top of my voice and I told

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Speaker 6: it a fuck off.

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Speaker 1: My friends were absolutely beside themselves. They couldn't bullieves if

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Speaker 1: this had just happened. They were like, you need to

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Speaker 1: go to the fleet. I didn't want to.

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Speaker 6: I didn't want to go to a police I didn't

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Speaker 6: want to talk to police. I hadn't had a good

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Speaker 6: experience in this class with them since Ed dying, and

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Speaker 6: I just didn't want to have to be around them again.

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Speaker 6: And my friends like, no, that was weird. You've got

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Speaker 6: to go and be to the police. So I've gone

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Speaker 6: into the police station. I honestly didn't want to be there,

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Speaker 6: and I probably appeared that I didn't want to be there.

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Speaker 6: And I was like, look, my sister passed away up there,

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Speaker 6: and they like, we know who you are. It's a

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Speaker 6: small town.

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Speaker 1: I knew that.

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Speaker 9: I was like, well, I was just up at the

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Speaker 9: park and I had this person run up to me

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Speaker 9: and she's come and she sort of screamed in my face,

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Speaker 9: and I repeated that she's told me that she was

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Speaker 9: there last night with my sister and that she could.

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Speaker 1: Have stopped whatever happened, whatever it was that happened.

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Speaker 6: She's at that point in time, I'm going with everything,

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Speaker 6: and I'm like, she could have stopped whatever it was happened,

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Speaker 6: and I think that you should probably go and talk

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Speaker 6: to her.

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Speaker 1: And they told me pretty much that I was making

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Speaker 1: a big deal out of upping.

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Speaker 10: And that I was very high in my emotions at

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Speaker 10: the time, and I probably felt like everything that anybody

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Speaker 10: was saying to me was related to what was happening

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Speaker 10: that night basically completely disregarded me.

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Speaker 1: I didn't stay around for the end of the conversation.

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Speaker 6: I probably was even like, okay, I was probably a

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Speaker 6: little rude as I left, to be honest, because.

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Speaker 1: I was angry at that point in time, and that

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Speaker 1: was that.

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Speaker 6: That was the last of it until the most recent

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Speaker 6: little bit of information.

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Speaker 1: Has it been brought up again.

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Speaker 4: The senior officer stated in his email.

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Speaker 5: If she remembers having it, I'd like to know who

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Speaker 5: she was speaking with, where the information came from, and

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Speaker 5: why specifically it was claimed not to be a suicide.

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Speaker 5: I don't think a statement from is necessary unless she

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Speaker 5: ends up having some genuine information.

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Speaker 4: There was no response posts this conversation that was provided

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Speaker 4: from the RCER disclosure. On April twenty twenty five, at

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Speaker 4: eleven twenty six am, the girl we call Kate post

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Speaker 4: it to social media. The post seemed like was written

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Speaker 4: in third person and was referring to the girl. He's

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Speaker 4: An excerpt from that post read by an AI voice.

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Speaker 11: The girl was having a manic episode, similar behavior to

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Speaker 11: someone on drugs, no sleep, delirious, etc. Of bipolar, which

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Speaker 11: is a danger to themselves and not others. She had

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Speaker 11: not slept in about a week and was walking this

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Speaker 11: each night, tripping out. When she first heard of Eden's death,

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Speaker 11: the fifteen year old committing suicide rocked the already heightened

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Speaker 11: emotions in her, freaked her out and made her question

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Speaker 11: if she had passed her when she was alive. She

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Speaker 11: felt guilty because she had walked the street that night,

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Speaker 11: and if she had run into Eden, she would have

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Speaker 11: been a safe person to talk to. She certainly would

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Speaker 11: have talked Eden out of it if the opportunity was there.

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Speaker 11: At the worst point of her episode, a few days later,

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Speaker 11: she was still not sleeping and she started talking weird,

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Speaker 11: incoherent shit to people, which is what made a lot

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Speaker 11: of people think she was involved, such as she was

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Speaker 11: there at the time or had a suicide packed with Eden.

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Speaker 11: She unfortunately told the grieving eldest sister she should have

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Speaker 11: helped her. She felt personally responsible as she had patrolled

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Speaker 11: the streets but didn't see her. The delirium got so

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Speaker 11: bad she thought she was somehow spiritually connected to Eden.

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Speaker 11: Three days later, she went to North Side for her episode,

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Speaker 11: stayed three weeks and came out heavily medicated. She speaks

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Speaker 11: to the police and tells them once again her side

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Speaker 11: of the story. She stated that it was a clear

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Speaker 11: cut suicide. She stated that it was unfair to put

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Speaker 11: responsibility on others.

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Speaker 4: It's pretty clear from the Facebook posts made by Kate

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Speaker 4: that she admits to walking or patrolling the streets of

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Speaker 4: Saint Helen's on the relevant nine. She also admits to

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Speaker 4: telling Eden's older sister that she could have saved Eden.

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Speaker 4: It appears that she was well aware of Eden's suicide

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Speaker 4: and had said various things to people about it. There

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Speaker 4: was no affidavit taken from Kate for the coroner. On

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Speaker 4: the evidence available, there's no record of Kate's accounts to police.

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Speaker 4: The police to date have refused over the years to

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Speaker 4: interview her formerly and take a statement.