1
00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,680
Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

2
00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:13,680
Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, February twenty five. Former political staff for Bruce

3
00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,119
Speaker 1: Lamon is back in court, this time for allegedly stealing

4
00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,720
Speaker 1: a car. A police charge sheet alleges Laman stole a

5
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,439
Speaker 1: Toyota Prado in the Huon Valley hamlet of Mountain River

6
00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,960
Speaker 1: in late November. Laman faced the Magistrate's Court of Tasmania

7
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:36,080
Speaker 1: on Monday, but is yet to enter a plea. Peter

8
00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,800
Speaker 1: Dutton says the Coalition could save six billion dollars a

9
00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:43,000
Speaker 1: year by sacking thirty six thousand public service workers. It's

10
00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,120
Speaker 1: a move that would more than cover the spending increase

11
00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,520
Speaker 1: on Medicare and comes as the Opposition leader challenges Labor

12
00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,760
Speaker 1: to reveal how it will pay for the scheme. That

13
00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,800
Speaker 1: story is live now at the Australian dot Com dot

14
00:00:54,800 --> 00:01:02,920
Speaker 1: a u a wise Tech was one of Australia's proudest

15
00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:08,000
Speaker 1: innovation success stories, a multi billion dollar logistics business. Now

16
00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,160
Speaker 1: it's a shambles, with directors walking out the door and

17
00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:15,000
Speaker 1: an in battled founder asserting his dominance despite a series

18
00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,120
Speaker 1: of embarrassing sex scandals. Today, how it all fell apart

19
00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,119
Speaker 1: for Wistech and why all companies need to wise up.

20
00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,919
Speaker 1: Everywhere you look in the corporate world, there's a charismatic

21
00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,520
Speaker 1: tech genius whose personal life is unconventional.

22
00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,880
Speaker 2: Billionaire Bill Gates opened up for the first time since

23
00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,040
Speaker 2: filing for divorce from his wife of twenty seven years.

24
00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:43,600
Speaker 1: Were you unfaithful in your marriage?

25
00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,120
Speaker 3: I certainly made mistakes and I take responsibility. Twenty six

26
00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,880
Speaker 3: year old influencer has filed a custody petition with the

27
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,880
Speaker 3: New York Supreme Court asking to be granted sole legal

28
00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,040
Speaker 3: custody of her and Elon musk as alleged son who

29
00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,160
Speaker 3: goes by rc amid. The tech mod goes absent.

30
00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,080
Speaker 2: Jeff Bezos still the world's richest man after the most

31
00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,440
Speaker 2: expensive divorce in history, his ex wife Mackenzie walking away

32
00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 2: with Amazon's Dark worth thirty six billion dollars.

33
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,440
Speaker 1: But take any of these men away from the businesses

34
00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,040
Speaker 1: they created, and what have you got A whole lot

35
00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:23,160
Speaker 1: of uncertainty. It's called key man risk, the idea that

36
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,920
Speaker 1: someone big at the center of a business can't be

37
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,360
Speaker 1: replaced without risking the whole show. And in Australia, the

38
00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,960
Speaker 1: perfect illustration is Richard White, the former guitar technician and

39
00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,960
Speaker 1: lighting engineer who grew a billion dollar business out of

40
00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,560
Speaker 1: his suburban Sydney garage. White's personal life seems to put

41
00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,639
Speaker 1: it kindly complicated. He's married to a woman named Zena Nassa.

42
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,240
Speaker 1: Last year, he settled a messy financial battle with another woman,

43
00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,359
Speaker 1: Linda Rogan. A third lady named Jenna Riches has gone

44
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:58,320
Speaker 1: public about their romantic entanglement. I didn't hear from him.

45
00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,639
Speaker 1: I heard from his wife, who told me in a

46
00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:06,040
Speaker 1: text message not to contact her husband ever again. Other

47
00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,840
Speaker 1: women have reportedly come forward with claims about inappropriate conduct.

48
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,480
Speaker 1: It's important to note Richard White denies any wrongdoing and

49
00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:18,240
Speaker 1: there are no allegations of criminality. Late in twenty twenty four,

50
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,160
Speaker 1: he stepped back as CEO of the business and accepted

51
00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:25,320
Speaker 1: a new title founding CEO with a million dollar salary.

52
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,080
Speaker 1: But it seems Wise Tech is not coping with the

53
00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:29,880
Speaker 1: new arrangement.

54
00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,480
Speaker 4: Richard is flexing his muscles to say, look, I own

55
00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,200
Speaker 4: thirty percent of this company. I founded it. I'm not

56
00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,000
Speaker 4: going anywhere. I'm the boss.

57
00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,160
Speaker 1: Jared Lynch is The Australian's Technology editor. He's been covering

58
00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,800
Speaker 1: the latest twist in the Wise Tech drama as well

59
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:46,840
Speaker 1: as all the other big news in tech. And I

60
00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,280
Speaker 1: caught him while he was on a brief stopover at

61
00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:50,200
Speaker 1: Auckland Airport.

62
00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:56,600
Speaker 4: Well, sorry, I just wait till that ends. So Richard

63
00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,800
Speaker 4: White owns thirty seven percent of Wise Tech. It was

64
00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,800
Speaker 4: his baby. He founded it thirty years ago. He built

65
00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,240
Speaker 4: it up from nothing to a forty billion dollar company.

66
00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,240
Speaker 4: I mean, how many offers can do that in this life?

67
00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,360
Speaker 4: What he's achieved is phenomenal. And as he said when

68
00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,560
Speaker 4: our colleaguely And Mendez interviewed him as he was stepping

69
00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:20,359
Speaker 4: down from the role of CEO, I'm not going anywhere, Mendez.

70
00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:21,800
Speaker 4: I'm a journalist with the Australian.

71
00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:26,200
Speaker 3: Why have you resigned today, mister? Why have you resigned.

72
00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:31,160
Speaker 4: Today that I'm not talking? Are you concerned about more

73
00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:32,080
Speaker 4: women are going to come out?

74
00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,400
Speaker 2: Mister Waye?

75
00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,480
Speaker 4: And what we've seen today is just that half the

76
00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,240
Speaker 4: board have walked out the door because they couldn't erect

77
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:46,239
Speaker 4: agreement over his treatment. And he's shown investors and everyone

78
00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:47,920
Speaker 4: else that I'm the boss.

79
00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,440
Speaker 5: Well the chairman and three board members of the software

80
00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,719
Speaker 5: company Wisetech. We'll step down this week due to disagreements

81
00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,520
Speaker 5: over the ongoing role of the founder, Richard White.

82
00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,479
Speaker 4: In Richard White's own words that we saw during the

83
00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,280
Speaker 4: court case against his former lover Linda Rogan, is that

84
00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,000
Speaker 4: if anyone comes after me in terms of litigation, I

85
00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,719
Speaker 4: will always win because I've got more resources than you.

86
00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,120
Speaker 4: I mean, it was almost like in the film Matilda

87
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,520
Speaker 4: or the novel Matilda. You know I'm bigger than you.

88
00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,120
Speaker 4: I'm I'm always gonna win. It was exactly like that.

89
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:21,919
Speaker 1: Listen to your little wiseacre.

90
00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,440
Speaker 3: I'm smart, you're dumb. I'm big, you're little. I'm right,

91
00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,960
Speaker 3: you're wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it.

92
00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,440
Speaker 1: The directors who have just walked out the door had

93
00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:38,640
Speaker 1: commissioned a full corporate governance review. Into White's time as CEO, it.

94
00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,360
Speaker 4: Started to win the company. I mean, they lost about

95
00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,640
Speaker 4: six billion dollars off their market cap. I mean investors

96
00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 4: were hurting, and so he apologized. Interestingly, he didn't apologize

97
00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,880
Speaker 4: for his behavior. He apologized for the distraction that the

98
00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,159
Speaker 4: subsequent media attention brought. So whether he was really sorry

99
00:05:58,240 --> 00:05:59,680
Speaker 4: or not remains to be seen. So it was a

100
00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,880
Speaker 4: funny sort of apology. But regardless, he had a moment

101
00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,040
Speaker 4: where he thought, I need to do something, I need

102
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,920
Speaker 4: to have a circuit breaker. Things were going well their

103
00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,120
Speaker 4: investor day in December. He shared the stage with Chairman

104
00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,400
Speaker 4: Richard danruysaying I promise not to interfere in management. But

105
00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,800
Speaker 4: then over the summer holidays something clearly has happened that

106
00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,600
Speaker 4: has resulted in half the board walking out the door.

107
00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:28,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, investors are clearly concerned about Richard White's role in

108
00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,360
Speaker 1: the company. But is your sense, Jared, that they're concerned

109
00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,280
Speaker 1: that what the company would be without him? Or are

110
00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,280
Speaker 1: they concerned that his behavior is problematic? Like do investors

111
00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,719
Speaker 1: have an ethical problem with him? Or is it that

112
00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,359
Speaker 1: they're worried that he might disappear altogether and then the

113
00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:45,200
Speaker 1: company won't be worth their investment.

114
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,279
Speaker 4: It's an absolute tight rope to manage because both scenarios

115
00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,680
Speaker 4: are bad for Wise Tech share price. I mean, Richard

116
00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,480
Speaker 4: White is Wise Tech. He built the company from nothing.

117
00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,880
Speaker 4: I mean back in the eighties he was working on

118
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,840
Speaker 4: at Jupiter's Casino to ensure that the poker machines and

119
00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,360
Speaker 4: stage shows wouldn't trip each other out. I mean, that's

120
00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,000
Speaker 4: how he got his entree into the industry. And then

121
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:13,040
Speaker 4: he created this logistics software giant. I mean, he is

122
00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,920
Speaker 4: the founder. He is so laser focused. He has built

123
00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,720
Speaker 4: into a forty billion dollar empire. If he were to

124
00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:24,600
Speaker 4: disappear overnight with no clear succession plan, there's a risk

125
00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,560
Speaker 4: that the company's share price would implode, and investors didn't

126
00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,960
Speaker 4: want to see that happen. That's why everyone was so

127
00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,520
Speaker 4: happy when they heard, Okay, he's stepping down from the

128
00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,400
Speaker 4: roll of CEO, but he's going to stay on as

129
00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,080
Speaker 4: a consultant, so you're not going to lose his presence.

130
00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,800
Speaker 4: He's knowledge, he's expertise. But then on the other hand,

131
00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:48,480
Speaker 4: you do have these ethical problems that arise, and we

132
00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,760
Speaker 4: haven't got to the bottom of yet because Richard White

133
00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,640
Speaker 4: and in his ex lover Linda Rogan, they settled so

134
00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,800
Speaker 4: that didn't play out in court. Now we've got this

135
00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,960
Speaker 4: review that might not see the light of day because

136
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,320
Speaker 4: the former directors who have now left said they were

137
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,200
Speaker 4: going to release it. There are no certains where that's

138
00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,280
Speaker 4: going to be a released now, so we never know

139
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:14,160
Speaker 4: the extent of his behavior. He's alleged wrongdoing, what exactly

140
00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,000
Speaker 4: that is. People are going to be in the dark.

141
00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,840
Speaker 4: So it's a massive, massive, massive leap of faith that's going.

142
00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:28,760
Speaker 1: On coming up. Could all this have been avoided? And

143
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:45,400
Speaker 1: if so? How Some of the big investors in Wystech

144
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,960
Speaker 1: are big superannuation funds. Of course they have millions of

145
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,719
Speaker 1: members to whom they have obligations. Does that make them

146
00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,320
Speaker 1: risk averse as investors jared in terms of what they're

147
00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,400
Speaker 1: prepared to tolerate from the businesses that they invest in.

148
00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,040
Speaker 4: I mean, all the super funds have got big investment

149
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:08,280
Speaker 4: mandates which have got a strong ESG that environments social

150
00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,760
Speaker 4: governance component to them. And that's what makes us in

151
00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,080
Speaker 4: Australia so different to what's happening in the US, where

152
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,720
Speaker 4: Trump can sort of rip up the playbook on diversity

153
00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,320
Speaker 4: and inclusion. But the same thing isn't happening here in

154
00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,920
Speaker 4: Australia because the super funds have got so much sway.

155
00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,920
Speaker 4: The difference in wis Tech is you've got the founder,

156
00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,400
Speaker 4: Richard White, who has got a close well he's the

157
00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,280
Speaker 4: biggest shareholder at thirty seven percent, so he holds so

158
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,160
Speaker 4: much sway and he found at the company from nothing

159
00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,920
Speaker 4: as well, so people are worried if he leaves, if

160
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,320
Speaker 4: he just rides off into the sunset. What will happen

161
00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,880
Speaker 4: to Wistech And that is a big governance problem because

162
00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,040
Speaker 4: there has been no succession plan that has been put

163
00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,360
Speaker 4: in place. He hasn't been thinking about that. To highlight that,

164
00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,400
Speaker 4: Andrew Cartlidge, the current interim CEO, who was their previous

165
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,920
Speaker 4: chief fund actial officer, he had previously given he's notice

166
00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,360
Speaker 4: that he planned to retire, but then when Richard stepped

167
00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,040
Speaker 4: down as CEO late last year, he said, Okay, I'm

168
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,440
Speaker 4: putting that on hold now, I'm going to step into

169
00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,920
Speaker 4: the bridge and steer the ship. That shows you the

170
00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,120
Speaker 4: extent of the leadership chaos that's going on at the moment.

171
00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, last year a CEO search was launched, but it's

172
00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,600
Speaker 1: not clear if that's even proceeding now. Would anyone want

173
00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,760
Speaker 1: to be the CEO of this company given that you've got,

174
00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,520
Speaker 1: on one hand, the founder breathing down your neck, presumably

175
00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,440
Speaker 1: with very strong opinions about what should be happening, and

176
00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,720
Speaker 1: on the other hand invest is extremely nervous.

177
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,880
Speaker 4: There is no doubt the CEO off Wystech Global would

178
00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:45,160
Speaker 4: be the toughest gigging corporate Australia for that very reason.

179
00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,040
Speaker 4: How can you manage the company effectively. When you have

180
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:56,199
Speaker 4: got the billionaire founder who's the biggest shareholder, who is

181
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,960
Speaker 4: still walking around Alexandra with a million dollar year paycheck

182
00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,719
Speaker 4: swinging his waight a hour. How can you manage a

183
00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:11,040
Speaker 4: company effectively? What parameters could you install to ensure proper

184
00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,000
Speaker 4: corporate governance? I mean it's an absolute mess.

185
00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,640
Speaker 1: Is there any way this could have been avoided? Do

186
00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,120
Speaker 1: you think, Jared, apart from Richard White just staying home

187
00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:22,960
Speaker 1: and having a Scotch finger and a cup of tea

188
00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:23,400
Speaker 1: every night.

189
00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,360
Speaker 4: Good luck with that. I like that image too, how

190
00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,319
Speaker 4: this could have been avoid it? Claire is just comes

191
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,280
Speaker 4: down to succession planning and every company should take a

192
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,360
Speaker 4: lesson from this. It's not good enough to pin your

193
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,160
Speaker 4: hopes on one person, regardless if they're the founder, whether

194
00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,560
Speaker 4: they are a long serving CEO, whether they're a gun

195
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,120
Speaker 4: hot candidate or whatever. All corporates need to be thinking

196
00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,320
Speaker 4: who's going to be next and then have a smooth

197
00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,280
Speaker 4: transition plan that's ready to go in motion, because that

198
00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,240
Speaker 4: was the one element that was missing in Wistech. That's

199
00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,240
Speaker 4: what's led to the company's undoing.

200
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:13,640
Speaker 1: Jared Lynch is The Australian's Technology editor, Thanks for joining

201
00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,200
Speaker 1: us on the front. We'll be back right here tomorrow.

202
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,560
Speaker 1: In the meantime, join our subscribers at the Australian dot

203
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:20,400
Speaker 1: com dot au