1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,719 Speaker 1: This podcast was recorded on the land of the Gadigel 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: people of the Eur Nation. 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to the Real Story with Joe Hildebrand. 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 2: I'm Joe Hildebrand and we are keeping it real this week. 5 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:19,159 Speaker 2: An absolutely huge episode the massive landslide election result in 6 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 2: the Northern Territory. It is Australia's smaller state and territory, 7 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 2: but it has massive repercussions for labor governments right around 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: the country. I'll get into the weeds about exactly what 9 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 2: it means for our old friend Laura, you know Laura. 10 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 2: In order, I've also got the inside goss on the 11 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 2: gold mine. Why has Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi gone head 12 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: to head with his supposed party and factional ally Tanya 13 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 2: Plibasek over a gold mine, a one billion dollar gold 14 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: mine in New South Wales, all over some lot some 15 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 2: heritage concerns that have stopped it after four years in 16 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 2: the making. And we're going to go inside RFK Junior's 17 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 2: head quite literally, We're going inside his brain to find 18 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: out but whether or not, as he has previously claimed, 19 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,839 Speaker 2: a worm has eaten part of it and then died. 20 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 2: We'll also be talking to one of the top national 21 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 2: security and counter terrorism experts in Australia about what is 22 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 2: happening in Israeli's worked very closely with the idea. I've 23 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 2: got a lot of contacts in Israel and there is 24 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 2: very little about national security and counter terrorism that he 25 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 2: does not know. So we're going to find out whether 26 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 2: or not we're heading for World War three. All that 27 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 2: more coming up, But first up this week, we're going 28 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 2: to go to something a little bit closer to home, 29 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 2: although actually probably not closer to home, because the Northern 30 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 2: Territory is another planet. 31 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 3: It is just a different place. It is unreal. I 32 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 3: love it. My wife worked and. 33 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 2: Lived up there for many, many years, largely to get 34 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: away from me, but I also love I've been up 35 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 2: there many times myself. I feel like it's my spiritual home. 36 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 2: This place is just amazing. The normal laws of nature 37 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 2: do not apply, let alone the normal laws of politics. 38 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: But something very interesting happened over the weekend. The Labor 39 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 2: government that has basically held power almost unbroken for two decades, 40 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: got absolutely smashed. 41 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 3: By the way. It's terrible. 42 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 2: It's the sort of thing you know, if you saw 43 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 2: it happening in playing out in real life. If you 44 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 2: call the police. This is a political car crash of 45 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 2: the most enormous proportions. The Chief Minister, the leader of 46 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: the party, lost her own seat. That's how big a 47 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: landslide it was. So to give you an idea of 48 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 2: the scale of it, the Northern Territory ever since it 49 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 2: was created, ever since it got self government in the 50 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 2: nineteen seventies. Basically for the first thirty years or so, 51 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: it was a one party state, or technically speaking, a 52 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: one party territory. The Country Liberal Party, which only seems 53 00:02:57,919 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 2: to operate in the Northern Territory and nowhere else, which 54 00:02:59,919 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 2: is another weird thing, won every single election, every single election. 55 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 2: Then in about two thousand and one, something changed, something 56 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 2: weird happened, and something well, someone who's not that weird 57 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 2: at all, Claire Martin, took over and she became the 58 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 2: first labor Chief Minister in the Northern Territori's history and 59 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 2: the first labor government in the Northern Territories history. And 60 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 2: it has been labor ever since then, except for one 61 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 2: brief term where the colp got back in and then 62 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 2: decided to eat itself alive and then very quickly got 63 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 2: punted out again. But in the last election on Saturday, 64 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 2: the COLP doubled its seats from about seven or eight 65 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: to about fifteen or so, and Labor halved its seats 66 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 2: from about the same number to the same number. Now 67 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: this is extraordinary. The election before that the COLP only 68 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: had two seats. So in two elections they have gone 69 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 2: to two seats to at least fifteen. And the one 70 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 2: reason for it is crime. The one reason for it 71 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 2: is law in order. And we all know the scenes 72 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 2: in Alice Springs. Everyone's seen what's happening out there. But 73 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: of course there are similar stories happening throughout the Northern 74 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 2: Territory and don't hear about them because they're happening in 75 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: very remote communities or people just turn a blind eye 76 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 2: to it. But eventually Territorians, who are pretty laid back, 77 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 2: easy going people, they know they live in probably the 78 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 2: most dangerous territory. I mean, there's crocodiles, for Christ's sake. 79 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 2: You know, this is not a place where you just 80 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 2: take sort of safety for granted. But even for Territorians, 81 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 2: the most laid back and tough people in the world, Nah, 82 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 2: this is not enough. We're not taking this anymore. And 83 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 2: they have just booted the government to Coventry, and this 84 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:34,239 Speaker 2: is something that is actually resonating right around the country. 85 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 2: This is something that state governments right up and down 86 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 2: the Eastern Seaboards are also dealing with, and they have 87 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 2: very similar characteristics to the Northern Territory government that just 88 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 2: got its ass handed to it on a planet. 89 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 3: Now. 90 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 2: The Northern Territory government, for what it's worth, had been 91 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 2: run by the right of the Labor Party, so Labor 92 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 2: in the Northern Territory, the right had one Michael Gunner, 93 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,040 Speaker 2: a former Chief Minister, so for a few years he 94 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 2: stood down and for reasons best known to himself, didn't 95 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 2: really organize a succession plan. And suddenly the left had 96 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 2: the leadership and the left had pretty much kind of 97 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 2: control of the party. Apparently the left controls most of 98 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 2: the branches, but the right controls most of the seats. 99 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 2: Not anymore, i would think, but anyway, the left was 100 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 2: in control. And the left has always had a problem 101 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 2: with law and order. It's always had a problem with 102 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 2: taking law and order seriously. And often this is because 103 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 2: they're sort of, you know, tertiary educated, nice, touchy Philly 104 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 2: people who feel a bit of empathy for people who 105 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 2: are committing these sorts of acts and think we have to, 106 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: you know, we have to get tough on the causes 107 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 2: of crime. You know, it's not just the crime itself. 108 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 2: And they're often living in areas that are immune to 109 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 2: these sorts of problems. They're often, you know, again, tertiary educated, affluent, 110 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 2: inner city people who are not at the coal face 111 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 2: of where these crimes are happening. They're not out there 112 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 2: in the regions or out there in the outer suburbs 113 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 2: where there's gun crime or knife crime. And so they think, 114 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 2: oh no, it's just a right wing beat up. It's 115 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 2: just a tabloid beat up. It's just the liberals, it's 116 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: just the walk back shock jocks. Oh no, it's all 117 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 2: just a better People on the ground, however, tend to 118 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 2: have a very different view. And ironically, of course, it 119 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 2: is poor people who are most likely to be victims 120 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: of violence. 121 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 3: As poor people who are the sufferers of. 122 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 2: Street crime, of property crime, of theft, of assault, of 123 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 2: domestic violence. 124 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 3: And these are the people we should be looking after. 125 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 3: These are people we should be taken care of. 126 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: But for some reason, the trendy left tends to just 127 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: sort of downplay it and people and we've seen it 128 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 2: time and time again, not just in the Northern Territory, 129 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 2: but of course in Queensland, where they've had regional communities 130 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 2: crying out for more support dealing with their law and 131 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 2: order things, and you've had people in the government and 132 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 2: on the left generally saying, oh no, it's just all 133 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 2: a tabloid beat up, it's all just a media beat up. 134 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 3: And of course we've had that huge debate. 135 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 2: In Victoria about you know, Sudanese crime, can you even 136 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: say it's Sudanese crime or gang crime? And people saying, 137 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 2: oh no, there's no crime here. What are you talking about. 138 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: It's all fine, everything's okay. Now, there are several features 139 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: of all of these governments that are identical. Firstly, all 140 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 2: of these governments, the NT, the Queensland and Victorian Labor governments, 141 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 2: all governments run by the left and in their dying days. 142 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 2: Now this is a double whammy because of course, not 143 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: only does the left tend not to take crime and 144 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 2: law in order seriously as an issue, but if you've 145 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 2: been in power for a long long time, as has 146 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 2: the Northern Territory government or had before it got wiped out, 147 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 2: or as has the Queensland government before it's about to 148 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 2: get wiped out at the end of this year. And indeed, 149 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 2: the Victorian government that just seems to keep hopping along 150 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: because there is no effective opposition whatsoever. But we'll see 151 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 2: if they get wiped out in the next election as well. 152 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 2: You have to actually accept that this rise in crime, 153 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 2: this rise in violence, this rise in property damage or 154 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 2: theft or whatever it is, it all took place under 155 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 2: your watch. So you have to actually own responsibility for it. 156 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 2: So it's very difficult to acknowledge that there's a problem, 157 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 2: and therefore very difficult to do anything about the problem, 158 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 2: because you can't do anything about the problem you don't 159 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 2: admit exists. And of course you're ideologically predisposed to unplay 160 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 2: those issues as well. 161 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 3: So what do you do. 162 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: Will you just say, no, you're all imagining it, you're 163 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: all making it up. Oh, you're all victims of you know, 164 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 2: murdock propaganda or tabloid propaganda or talkback propaganda. And you 165 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 2: tell all these communities that in fact, these aren't actually 166 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 2: real problems, and you know, it's just all in their 167 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 2: heads or whatever. That's what people here at any rate, 168 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 2: And we know what happens when people feel like they're 169 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: elected representatives, aren't taking them seriously, aren't listening to them, 170 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 2: or telling them, or almost gas lighting them, telling them 171 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 2: that what they are seeing with their own eyes isn't 172 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 2: borne out by the evidence or the statistics. They just 173 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 2: go to the ballot box with a brick bat and 174 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 2: they whack them. And that's what's happened in Northern Territory. 175 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 2: It's exactly what's about to happen in Queensland. And you've 176 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 2: got the same thing happening in Victoria where people are saying, 177 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 2: you know, had reports saying businesses can't even get people 178 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,839 Speaker 2: to work for them in the CBD after six pm 179 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 2: because they're so scared for their own safety. And of 180 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 2: course law and order and national security is also the 181 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 2: big big bat that Peter Dutton is using to beat 182 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 2: Anthony Albanesi around the head with. And so you've seen 183 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 2: the Coalition try to say that what's happening in the 184 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 2: Northern Territory is the fault of the Labor Government cause 185 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: they'd enact on Alice Springs and they haven't been tough enough. 186 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 2: And of course we all know that the Labor government 187 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 2: is currently dominated by the left. We've got a left 188 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 2: wing Prime Minister Anthony Alberesi, even though he's moved to 189 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: center now and is awesome. But point being, Dutton is 190 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 2: going to absolutely go Anthony Alberaneze and make him be 191 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: responsible for the vilenes on our streets. So this is 192 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 2: why that tiny little territory at the top of Australia 193 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 2: could actually have a ripple effect on state governments right 194 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 2: around the country and the federal government in canber itself. 195 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 2: Over to the other big issue facing the federal government 196 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 2: this week. 197 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 3: It's gold, Jerry. It is literally gold. So there is a. 198 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 2: Billion dollar gold mine in central West New South Wales. Well, 199 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,199 Speaker 2: in fact, there's not a billion dollar gold mine in 200 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 2: New South Wales, and that is precisely the point. Now, 201 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 2: this is a mind that has been proposed by a 202 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 2: group called Regious Resources, and it is worth up to 203 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 2: a billion dollars, almost a billion dollars, and it's gone 204 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: through all the approval processes, all the planning checks and balances. 205 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 2: It's been approved by the New South Wales government, was 206 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 2: about to be approved by the federal government went right 207 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 2: at the last minute. Environment Minister Tanya Plibusek said well, no, 208 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: we are not doing it. It turns out that the 209 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 2: mine is on an Indigenous heritage site, which means that 210 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 2: it has to be kiboshed. Now, this came as a 211 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,719 Speaker 2: bit of a surprise to the mainstream Indigenous groups so 212 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 2: or one of the mind because they wanted the jobs 213 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 2: and thought this was fantastic for their community. And of 214 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 2: course this came just a few days after Prime Minister 215 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 2: Anthony Albanisi said that Indigenous communities would benefit most from 216 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 2: economic advancement economic opportunities, that the way to close the 217 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 2: gap was to give Indigenous people jobs and the benefits 218 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 2: from these big projects in regional Australia that would help 219 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 2: them secure their own sort of financial future. Sounded pretty 220 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 2: good to me, sounded pretty good to the Prime Minister, 221 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 2: sounded pretty good to the local Aboriginal people in and 222 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 2: around this mindset, which is just near Orange. But according 223 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 2: to one sort of slightly fringe or lesser known or 224 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 2: obscure Indigenous historian, on this site where the tailing dam 225 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 2: of the golden mine was meant to be would was 226 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 2: actually incredibly sacred. That's the site of certain dreamings and 227 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 2: origin stories of Aboriginal spirituality, and therefore it couldn't go ahead. 228 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 2: And Tanya Plibisek Environment was a very nice person, lovely person, 229 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 2: said no, you're right and put the kaibosh on it. 230 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 2: Now this alarmed the Mind's operators, as you can imagine. 231 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 2: In fact, they put out a statement to the AX 232 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 2: and said, you know what, this has just wiped almost 233 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 2: two hundred million dollars off the value of the projects. 234 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 3: Stroke of a pen. 235 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 2: Two hundred million dollars almost gone. But of course Tania 236 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 2: PLIITP six is not just under pressure from her role 237 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 2: as Environment Minister, but she's also under pressure in her 238 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 2: seat of Sydney, which is under constant attack from the Greens. 239 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 2: And you've got crazy lefties like get Up and the 240 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 2: Greens attacking Tania Piliver sec for allowing any minds to 241 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 2: go ahead, for allowing pretty much anything, even a brick 242 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 2: shitouse being built in the middle of the outback, she 243 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 2: gets in trouble for. And so she's trying to sort 244 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 2: of appease all these crazy greeny lefties in her inner 245 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,839 Speaker 2: city seat of Sydney while at the same time make tough, 246 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: sensible economic decisions for the advancement of Australia as a whole. 247 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 2: But there's also a backstory to Tania plub sec and 248 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 2: Anthony Albanezi, which might just explain what's about to happen next. 249 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 2: Because Chris Mins the fantastic we should have some superhero music. 250 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 2: I think there's some copyright issues with using the theme 251 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,719 Speaker 2: from Superman in a. 252 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 3: World where there can only be one Chris Mins's it's 253 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 3: the premiere coming to a parliament near you. 254 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 2: Chris Bins, the superheroic superhero Premier of New South Wales 255 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 2: from the right faction of the Labor Party. And again, 256 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 2: I know I sound like a broken record, but this 257 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 2: is really important. Comes out after this decision and says, 258 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 2: what the f is going on? This is ridiculous. We 259 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 2: are disappointed, we are not happy with this. We are 260 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: going to try to get this mine up and running. 261 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 2: We don't understand why this decision was made. Four years, 262 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 2: this planning process took place and then suddenly right at 263 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 2: the very end of it can't go ahead. And it's 264 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 2: fair to say that Prime Minster Anthony Albanezi, you know, 265 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 2: sort of cocked his eyebrow and had a bit of look, 266 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 2: you know what, Premier is looking pretty good right about now. 267 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 3: Chris Bins is looking damn fun. 268 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 2: If you ask me, And I'm sure Alba didn't use 269 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 2: those exact words, but that's what he was thinking. And 270 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 2: Albot's come out and said, yeah, no, the mine's going ahead. 271 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 2: We are going to make this mine work somehow or other. 272 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 2: Now that pit not just New South Wales Labor against 273 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 2: Federal Labor, but it also pits the Prime Minister against 274 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 2: his own environment minister. Now why is this happening? Well, 275 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 2: even though Anthony Alberzi and Tania Plippa Sec are both 276 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 2: from the Labor Party and both from the left of 277 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 2: the Labor Party, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're always 278 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 2: on the same side. There's a bit of history between 279 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 2: these two. No, not that kind of history, but political history. 280 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 2: So when Anthey Alberansi was running for the leadership of 281 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: the Labor Party the first time round in twenty thirteen, 282 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 2: Tanya Clippersec was running against him as Bill Shorten's deputy. 283 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 2: Now this happens all the time. Now the rules are 284 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 2: basically in the Labor Party that used to be that 285 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 2: the right would have the leadership and the left would 286 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 2: have the deputy leadership. But either way you had to 287 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 2: have a leader and a deputy leader from opposite factions. 288 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 2: Now that's changed a bit recently, and there have been 289 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 2: special circumstances. That's broadly how it works. So that's okay. 290 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 2: So Anthony Alberaneze had Richard Miles as his deputy candidate, 291 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 2: and Bill Shorten had Tanya Plibasek as his deputy candidate, 292 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 2: and so you've got a left. 293 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 3: Leader right deputy or a right leader left deputy. Everyone knows. 294 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 3: That's how it's meant to be. 295 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 2: But the deputies are meant to kind of run dead. 296 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 2: The leaders are meant to go against each other because otherwise, 297 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 2: of course, you would have factions divided and not all 298 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 2: uniting behind the candidate, which is precisely what they are 299 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: supposed to do. And so even though Tania plibu Sect 300 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 2: is technically of the left, Anthony Alberanzi is the king 301 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 2: of the left, runs the entire left machine, and all 302 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 2: the left are supposed to vote for him as the 303 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 2: leadership candidate, notwithstanding the fact that Tanya is running on 304 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 2: the ticket of a right wing candidate. 305 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 3: But I'm told I understand. 306 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 2: I'm not sure if it's true or not, but I 307 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 2: understand that Tanya was maybe asking for a few votes 308 00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 2: from the left to help get Bill and her over 309 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 2: the life. Maybe I don't know, but that's what I've heard. 310 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: And Anthony Albanezi, you don't act that, and so he 311 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 2: just quietly, I think, perhaps just took note of it. 312 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 2: He lost that leadership contest in twenty thirteen, and then 313 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 2: of course one in twenty nineteen, after Bill Shorten very 314 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 2: nearly won in twenty sixteen and then lost the unlosable 315 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 2: election in twenty nineteen. And Anthony Albanez is the kind 316 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 2: of guy who just remembers. He's got a very good memory. 317 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 2: And then, of course, when he won the election in 318 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, Tanya Plippasek, who was all set to 319 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 2: become Education Minister, as she'd been shadow Education Minister throughout 320 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 2: the previous period, suddenly gets environment Now. Unkind people say 321 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 2: that this was a demotion. Even more unkind people say 322 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 2: it was a shafting. Technically she was just sort of 323 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 2: moved sideways, but it was very much seen as him 324 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 2: putting Tanya away down and this raised a lot of 325 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 2: eyebrows at the time. And again when Tania polibisec is 326 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 2: sort of putting her neck on the line for this 327 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 2: gold mine, elbows come in and said nah, no, sorry, 328 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 2: actually no, we're going to make the mine go ahead. 329 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 2: But turns out there's no story here whatsoever, nothing to 330 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 2: see here at all, because the mine was always going 331 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 2: to go ahead. The mine was never blocked. Tannion plibisec 332 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 2: reminded us this week. The mine's tailings dam was just blocked. 333 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 2: Of course, the mind needs a tailing dam to function, 334 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:28,239 Speaker 2: and the thing with minds is you can't really move 335 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 2: them around too much because they've got to be where 336 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 2: the stuff is under the ground. But no, the mines 337 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 2: operators had other options for the tailings dam, then we 338 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 2: could just use those ones instead. 339 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 3: Never mind, of. 340 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 2: Course, the fact that it was the option that was 341 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 2: approved by the state government and the federal government up 342 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 2: to this point, that the mine had put forward and was. 343 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 3: All rubbers damp. 344 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 2: But now seems like this mine that's been blocked, two 345 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 2: hundred million wiped off a one billion dollar project, turns 346 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 2: out nothing at all, nothing at all, It's all fine, 347 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 2: it's all going to go ahead, and everybody's friends again. 348 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 2: Don't you just love politics? 349 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 3: Now? 350 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 2: I just want to check in quickly with the US, 351 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 2: which is being uncharacteristically boring at the moment. Kaarmala Harris 352 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 2: isn't doing any media, so it means she's not making 353 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 2: any gaffs or screwing anything up, which is intensely disappointing. 354 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 2: Donald Trump is being surprisingly well behaved. He's been told 355 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 2: to stop asking whether or not Karmala Harris is black 356 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 2: or Indian or whatever, and he seems to be doing that. 357 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 2: So he's being a bit dull as well. Thank god 358 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,479 Speaker 2: for Robert F. Kennedy Junior, because otherwise we wouldn't have 359 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: anyone crazy in the race at all. 360 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 3: But shock horror, RFK is dropped out of the race. 361 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 2: This is terribly, terribly, terribly sad. It's a dark day 362 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 2: for US politics because we now have just one crazy 363 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 2: in a race that used to be populated by two 364 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 2: thirds crazy and one crazy cackler. So RFK is pulled 365 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 2: out and said he's going to throw in his lot 366 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 2: with Donald Trump. He's going to endorse Trump as the candidate. 367 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 2: Now what does this actually mean? Will this even help 368 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 2: Donald Trump at all? 369 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 3: Well? 370 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 2: I opined recently that I wasn't entirely sure if rfk's 371 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 2: voting block, if you like, would all just go with 372 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 2: him to Donald Trump? Now we know, all know of course, 373 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 2: that he is a former Democrat. We all know that 374 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 2: he is a Kennedy. This is the royal family of 375 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,880 Speaker 2: the Democrats. And we also all know that he's batshit crazy, 376 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 2: so batshit crazy that he said that part of his 377 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 2: brain was eaten by a worm that then later died. Now, 378 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 2: I have no reason to disbelieve this. In fact, given 379 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 2: rfk's behavior, this is an entirely plausible explanation, But I'm 380 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 2: not sure if it's the best platform to be running 381 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 2: for president. He's since pulled out of the race because 382 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 2: he's realized that, given that he is polling between three 383 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 2: and five percent, he's probably not going to get over 384 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 2: the line against either Trump or Karmela. 385 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 3: I'm no mathematician. 386 00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 2: I just did an arts degree, but I'm pretty sure 387 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 2: that three to five percent doesn't quite get you there. 388 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 2: But if all of his supporters were to swing behind 389 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 2: Donald Trump, like RFK said he was, and one of 390 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 2: them too, well, that would put Donald Trump over the top. Again, 391 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,959 Speaker 2: I'm not entirely sure that the people voting for RFK 392 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 2: Junior the most shall we say disciplined political adherents, And 393 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 2: given his sort of weird grab bag of ideas about 394 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 2: vaccinations and other things. I think he roasted a dog 395 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 2: at one point, or ate a barbecued dog or something, 396 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 2: and then he told some weird story about catching it. 397 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 2: It's just it makes me go crazy just trying to 398 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 2: understand these things. But point bank, I'm not sure if 399 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 2: they're all going to sort of do what he says, 400 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 2: like loyal little soldiers and go and vote for. 401 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 3: The big Orange man bad. 402 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 2: And indeed, a New York Times Cienapole came out over 403 00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 2: the weekend and found precisely that so of rfk's supporters, 404 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 2: it's gone sort of back and forth, and some people 405 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 2: are saying, you know, they have sixty forty Democrats. That 406 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,959 Speaker 2: was about where they were, I think when Joe Biden 407 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 2: was still the candidate, presumptive candidate. Then when Carmela came along, 408 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 2: suddenly they were sort of said to be sixty forty 409 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 2: Trump supporters that were voting for RFK before they went back. 410 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 2: No one can seem to make up their mind, And 411 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 2: this pole by the New York Times over the weekend 412 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 2: has found that basically they're split dead evenly so of 413 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 2: the three to five percent or the five now down 414 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 2: to three percent of people voting for RFK Junior only 415 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 2: about seventy percent two thirds or so. I would vote 416 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 2: for someone else anyway, because you know who else has 417 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 2: that special brand of charisma and crazy that RFK brings 418 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 2: to the table. 419 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 3: And so about. 420 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 2: Thirty four thirty five would go off and vote for Kamala, 421 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 2: and then about thirty four thirty five would go off 422 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 2: and vote for Trump. 423 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 3: So there you have it right there in the numbers. 424 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 3: It's official. 425 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 2: The impact on the election of RFK jor pulling out 426 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 2: is exactly seventy percent of three fifths of Buggarall. Our 427 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 2: next guest on the Real Story podcast is something of 428 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 2: a polymath. He's hard to pin down. He's done pretty 429 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 2: much everything there is to do in areas of counter 430 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 2: terrorism national security, dealing with both Israel and Ukraine are 431 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 2: the two current big hotspots around the globe at the moment. 432 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 2: He's a former soldier himself, a former counter terrorism expert 433 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 2: with the New South Wales Police. He's also a former 434 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 2: advisor to a labor shadow defense minister, and you work 435 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 2: very closely with the IDF, the Israeli Defense Force on 436 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 2: their operations and counter terrorism. Glenn Colemites, Welcome to the 437 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 2: Real Story love it to have your company, Joe. 438 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 3: It's good to be here now. 439 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 2: Basically, to summarize the situation in the Middle East, it's 440 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 2: a clusterfuck. But to put a slightly more nuanced take 441 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 2: on it, we've got a new front escalating very heavily 442 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 2: in the north of Israel and the south of Lebanon 443 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 2: with HESBLA, which is a dominant military force in Lebanon, 444 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 2: bigger than the actual official Lebananes Army. And the reason 445 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 2: why this is significant and more worrying, perhaps than just 446 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 2: the Gaza conflict itself, despite the carnage in the south, 447 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 2: is because HESBLA has very very close ties with Iran. 448 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 2: It basically does what Iran tells it to and Iran 449 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 2: makes it do what Ran wants it to do. And 450 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 2: if Iran gets brought in then this raises the prospect 451 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,719 Speaker 2: of a broader regional conflict because of course the other 452 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 2: Arab states, the Sony States, don't like Iran very much 453 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 2: because it's and of course if Israel it goes to 454 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 2: war with another country, then it is going to drag 455 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 2: In the United States, this raises the question of how 456 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 2: far it escalates, how many countries get involved. 457 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 3: Are we looking at the beginning of World War three. 458 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: Short answer, no, not in this theater, in another theater possibly, right, 459 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: we won't talk about it. 460 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 2: Let's just get to one World War three at a time. 461 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 2: But just how serious is this? 462 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 3: Look? 463 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: Firstly, Israel is the master of multi front, multi frontal warfare. 464 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: It's every war that's been involved in since ninety forty 465 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: eight has been against armies on multiple fronts. Coming out 466 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: the surrounded bore, they were surrounded by an enemy that 467 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. 468 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: So internally they're very good at moving troops and equipment 469 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: around and taking up this multi multi front fight. 470 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 4: And they've actually had. 471 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,199 Speaker 1: A lot of good victories over the years, good tactical victories, 472 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: not so good strategic victories. But the big issue I 473 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: think is you're quite right, Hesbala does have enormous arsenal, 474 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: a lot of people. It's on Israel's only truly vulnerable front, 475 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: which is the north the Lebanon border. The rest of 476 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: the rest of the country is pretty much protected by 477 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: it hard to get into by ground forces, and a 478 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: whole lot of other reasons. And Egypt out of the 479 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: equation now they're in a treaty arrangement. So the Lebanese border, 480 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: the north has Bla front is the most vulnerable for Israel. 481 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: That's where they are getting a lot of a lot 482 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: of the rocket fire now. And we heard we knew 483 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,199 Speaker 1: that Duran for the first time ever actually hit them 484 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: a few months back with rockets and very few got through. 485 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: We have the Iron Dome, So the Iron Dome is 486 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: a very effective. 487 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 3: Air defense system. 488 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: They that they removed a lot of They took out 489 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: a lot of the Iranian. 490 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 4: Missiles, plus Saudi's and a couple of other Americans took 491 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 4: out a few as well. 492 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 2: And just before we go on, just talk us through 493 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 2: how the Iron Dome work is. Basically this sort of 494 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 2: hyper sophisticated situation where they shoot down they've got high 495 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 2: precisions sort of missiles. I'm thinking that they're working on 496 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 2: using lasers now believe, but where they can detect with 497 00:25:55,119 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 2: great accuracy and target with incredible precision, huge numbers of 498 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 2: rockets coming in and so it's this sort of metaphorical 499 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 2: dime that protects it. But there's concerns that a mass, 500 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 2: mass mass rocket attack could potentially overwhelm it. If there 501 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 2: are just thousands upon thousands of rockets coming at the 502 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 2: same time, it might not be able to get them 503 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 2: more talkers series. 504 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 3: That's exactly the issue. 505 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: It's it's a mobile air defense system, which as you say, 506 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 1: is very very precise. That way, they're not wasting rockets 507 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: that they identify a threat which is potentially going to 508 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: tart hit Israel. It's going to have some make some damage. 509 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: Then they'll they'll shoot it down if the if it's 510 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 1: not going to do any damage is let it go, 511 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: so it slaves ammuition. It's a very smart precision system, 512 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: but it can be overwhelmed. It's subject to being overwhelmed 513 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: and that that is exactly the risk. And it's mobile, 514 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: so they all move around where the threat that Israel 515 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: was amazing intelligence right because of the situation, except for 516 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: that one time over last year. Yeah, and your Kapur perhaps, 517 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 1: but we won't cut that far back. 518 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 3: But look, it's it's a. 519 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: Very good system, but it can be well, we know 520 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: that Iran they launched a pretty big volley last time, 521 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: very unsuccessfully. They're threatening to send a lot more this time. 522 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 1: Look be that as it may. 523 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 4: Hez Bla is the threat and that's where they've. 524 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: Got a lot of stuff. They've got a very highly 525 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: trained it is it's the military there. 526 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 4: Lebanon has no military compared to Hezbla. 527 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 3: That's that's the risk. 528 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 4: This is why Israel traditionally uses. 529 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: Offensive, a tactic of offensive deterrence where they go in, 530 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: hit hard to deter and hence the last two Lebanon 531 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: wars and they actually push Hesbela back as far as Beirute. 532 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:37,439 Speaker 4: They haven't done that yet. 533 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: They've gone, they've targeted a few rocket sites in Lebanon, 534 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 1: but they haven't started this offensive deterrent yet because. 535 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 2: Israel had previously occupied part of southern Lebanon and hez 536 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 2: Bla pushed them out, which is part of why Hesblo 537 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 2: is so popular. 538 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: And absolutely right, and in fact, the light the two 539 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: Lebanon wars that on one of those, Hesbela actually had 540 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: some good tactical victories, most of its Israel had the 541 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: tactical victories. There's always a strategic loss for Israel because 542 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: the world comes into Israel bashes whatever they do, they 543 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: get smacked. But I think if Israel, if the intelligence 544 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 1: show is there, that Iron Dome may be overwhelmed. Then 545 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: I suspect they'll launch into a into an offensive, deterrent 546 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: mode or. 547 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 3: Preemptive strike as they strike. 548 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: Yes, it's another way to say that Verreymond too. Israel Israeli. 549 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: The air force is very very capable. They have some 550 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: very good aircraft. F thirty five's like ours, the whole spectrum, 551 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 1: F sixteens, they are fifteens. They are a very good 552 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: air force, and they're very well coordinated with the ground 553 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: troops too. It's a real maneuval warfare approach, so you're 554 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: very effective. 555 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 3: And just going. 556 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 2: So that's the sort of tactical side and how the 557 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 2: sort of rockets match up and what will happen, you know, 558 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 2: in the back and forth militarily. What I find really 559 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 2: weird is there's it's almost like there's kind of two Lebanons. 560 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 2: There's the hes Blard dominated South which just carries on 561 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 2: like doing a war of its own. Well the actual 562 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 2: sort of official and they've got MPs in the actual Lebanese Parliament, 563 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 2: which is another weird thing that seems to be run 564 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 2: by I think about four families or something they share 565 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 2: up the barm between. So it's something weird. Even I 566 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 2: can't get my head around it. I've maaged to figure 567 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 2: out new South Wales Labor. I still can't figure out Lebanon, 568 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 2: but the rest of Lebanon seems to just carry on 569 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 2: as if it's as if it's a different country, as 570 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 2: if it's sort of not happening. So it's kind you've 571 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 2: got Hesblard doing whatever it likes, unchallengeable militarily or politically 572 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 2: in Lebanon, a proxy of Iran, a foreign government, while 573 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,959 Speaker 2: the actual sort of official Lebanon, which is I think 574 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 2: crippolal with debt and economic woes, just sort of just 575 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 2: carries on doing what it's doing and sort of nothing 576 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 2: to see here. 577 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 4: Looks the other way, Yeah, quite right, And I think 578 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 4: that's part of the trade off. 579 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: I think Lebanon tolerates Hesbala being in the in the south, 580 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: so it's Northeast rul as long as they don't affect 581 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: Lebanon's way of life. 582 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 4: And because Lebanon isn't a strong military at all, it's 583 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 4: as you say, it's quite a. 584 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: Little oligarch's little sort of entities floating around. But this 585 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: is one reason why our government, Australian government has said 586 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: that has said that southern Lebanon is a no go 587 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: zone for Australians and if you go there you can 588 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: potentially be breaching in Conworth law. So they had the 589 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: Istralian governments even separated the Hezbala South from the rest 590 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: of Lemon. 591 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 3: That's amazing, isn't it? 592 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 2: And then what is the risk of And again there 593 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 2: seemed to be this really serious escalation. 594 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 3: Everyone and then things seem to have kind of pulled 595 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 3: back a little bit. 596 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:17,719 Speaker 2: It's kind of one of those things where all right, 597 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 2: we don't want this to go any further in case 598 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 2: the big dogs sort of come in. 599 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 3: But what are the risks? 600 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 2: Do you think of Iran actually coming in as a 601 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 2: as Iran if you like, instead of fighting this war 602 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 2: by proxy via Hezblat or do you think that's what 603 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 2: they'll continue to do? 604 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: The way Tolls came out very very loud and very 605 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: strong because they had to. 606 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 3: Right in the Middle East, you don't just cop it. 607 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: You say we're going to come in, We're going to 608 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: decimate Israel, We're going to drive them into the ocean. Right, 609 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: that's not happening and it won't happen. Iran can't put 610 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: boots on the ground into Israel. There's too many other countries. 611 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 3: In the way, that's right. Who will hate Iran? 612 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 4: Who will hate Iran? That's exactly right. 613 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 3: So it's all going to be the missiles. 614 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: The US have a carrier strike group either sitting in 615 00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: the Med now or certainly on its way to the. 616 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 4: Med, which have they've said they will help to shoot. 617 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: If Iran decides to start putting missiles back into Israel, 618 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: that will help shoot them down. 619 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 4: As will the Saudi's last time. 620 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 3: And would they and again Israel has struck inside. 621 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 2: Iran previously, as we know, with again very high precision 622 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 2: trying to take out hez Blow commanders there. 623 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 3: Would the US actually launch missiles into Iran itself? 624 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: That's a really good question that they certainly have committed 625 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: to shoot if Iran attacks shooting helping to shoot down 626 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: the incoming missiles. I suspect they would, because they've they've 627 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: warned Iran not. 628 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 4: To escalect this, not to take this further. 629 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: If they start doing what they what they threatened to 630 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: do and start putting they think they said tenfold attack 631 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: from last time, and Hesbala can currently do their thing, 632 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: I suspect the US probably will get involved. Why would 633 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: you have a carrier strike group there if you weren't 634 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: going to go further. 635 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 3: Well, that's right. 636 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 2: I suppose that the alternative is, are we looking at 637 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 2: the kind of mutually assured destruction doctrine, which is that 638 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 2: you have so much firepower, so much capacity formageddon that 639 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 2: it actually encourages people to do nothing, not to actually 640 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 2: use it. 641 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: That's exactly what I think it is. And the fact 642 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: they've had a submarine there, I'll never admit this. They 643 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: said there was a submarine nearby. They're gathering intelligence for 644 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: a long time. US submarine carry a strike group that says, 645 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: look at US, big carrier, a bunch of ships, American flag, 646 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: don't do anything stupid. 647 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 3: The IO toll was, aren't that stupid? 648 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: So and the new president in fact is a moderate, 649 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: and he's already said we're not going to get ourselves 650 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,479 Speaker 1: in the world. Have heard here the OYO toll has 651 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: tried to overridey, So politically they know that they're not 652 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: going to do anything that is going to have US 653 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: responding on Iranian soil. 654 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 4: Right, I doubt highly doubt that, which is. 655 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: Why Iran is really relying on its proxies and really 656 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: relying on hez Balah to not just launch missiles. I 657 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: suspect Rahm what's his lad to start rolling troops into Israel, 658 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: and now that northern border is amazingly defended. In fact, 659 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: a friend of mine here in Sydney was a commander 660 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: of those that line of defense in the right north 661 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: of Israel. 662 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 4: So I doubt irre going to do anything. 663 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: As as obvious as blatant as tenfold missile attacks. 664 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 4: But it's certainly going to keep bolstering Hezbollah. 665 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: They keep bolstering the Huthi, who have now said, well 666 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: we are at ward now, and that's that doesn't affect Israel. 667 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: That effects of the world because of the trade through 668 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: the Red Sea are part of the world. So yeah, 669 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: I think it's I think it'd be limited to the 670 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: proxy responses without any significant response from from. 671 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 2: I mentioned that northern border. I've been there myself as well, 672 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 2: and you can see, you know, it's the old Sarah 673 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 2: Palin joke. I can see, yeah, yeah, see Russia from 674 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 2: my house, but you can see Lebanon from the border obviously, 675 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 2: and you can see anse sort of Iranian flags and 676 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 2: the heat pace. It seems, as I remember thinking it 677 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 2: was just so it was really still and peaceful. It 678 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 2: seemed incredibly intimate and yet it's the center of this 679 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 2: kind of regional and potentially global kind of conflict. You 680 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 2: are running as the new South Wales Centate candidate for 681 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 2: the Jackie Lamby network at the upcoming federal election. Whenever 682 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 2: that is What do you think the Australian government needs 683 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 2: to be doing in terms of this escalation. Is this 684 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 2: something we should just be saying, Look, this is not 685 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 2: our business, this is not our war, this is not 686 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 2: our fight. All we need to do is make sure 687 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 2: that tensions don't rise at home. Or is there some 688 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 2: shift in Australia's position on Israel or Palestine that you 689 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 2: think needs to be made. What will you be sort 690 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 2: of agitating for should you be elected to the Senate. 691 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,399 Speaker 1: Firstly, the Isralian the current Australian government needs to get 692 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: more balanced about the way they're dealing with Israel, with 693 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: the whole conflict, but certainly with Israel. Israel is the 694 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: only democracy in the region. It's an ally. They've given 695 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: us intelligence in the past when there was a terrorist 696 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 1: situation out of flying out of Sydney Airport. They could 697 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: potentially have to come to our assistance in the future, 698 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: not militarily, but diplomatically and intelligence terms. They need to 699 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: be very careful. They're walking a refine line there with Israel. 700 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: This is our government. What they need to be doing 701 00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:59,359 Speaker 1: in the short term is what they should have done 702 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: a long time ago. Contribute more to that hoothy, that 703 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: Red Sea Freedom of navigation or the Red Sea operation. 704 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: They said they sent over an Australian commander and a 705 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: bunch of operation staff. That's not good enough with this 706 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: win that we rely on that traffic, for that trade, 707 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,240 Speaker 1: that shipping for our exist our existence. 708 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 2: And you're a former Labor member, former Labor candidate, you've 709 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:25,240 Speaker 2: obviously shifted over to Jackie Lambing there is what what? 710 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 2: What sort of sowed your disillusion with the Labor Party 711 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 2: and caused you to shift across, because it strikes me 712 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 2: that you're exactly the sort of a person who should 713 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 2: be the Australian Labor Party and should be sort of 714 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,240 Speaker 2: providing those voices. 715 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: Look, I was strong labor right and I was a 716 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,919 Speaker 1: defense advisor to Labor and opposition and defense is quite 717 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: a right portfolio, and I found the factionalism just just 718 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: killed me. It just it was so I think back 719 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: then the collation of being government for so long that 720 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 1: labor could taste government. But the left was so used 721 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: to fighting the right that they couldn't then focus on 722 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 1: who they This would have been the real enemy, I suppose, right, 723 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: So the FACTIONISSM killed me. But then I started to 724 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: see some nonsense in Sussex Street with bags of eldie, 725 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: bags of cash, and you're giving it, You're letting people 726 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:10,879 Speaker 1: are on the survelance know they're nder surveillance, all this. 727 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 3: Sort of lunacy. 728 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,399 Speaker 1: Right, there were some dark days that were some dark days, right, 729 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: and Glenn said, I'm out of here. 730 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 2: No, Well, look, Glenn, Clevet's an absolute pleasure to talk 731 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 2: to you. Thank you very much for your insights. They 732 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 2: are extremely wise and penetrating as always, and thanks for 733 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 2: joining us here on the real story. 734 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 4: Thanks Joe's pleasure. 735 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,359 Speaker 3: And that's it for us at the Real Story. If 736 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 3: you like what you're hear, leave us a comment or 737 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 3: a review. 738 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 2: Hit the five star button. I don't think any of 739 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 2: the other buttons work, so just hit the five star one. 740 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 2: If you don't like what you're here, I don't care, 741 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 2: just hit the five star button. Okay, if you want 742 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 2: to get in touch with this it want us to 743 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 2: talk about anything, anything you're interested in, ask us a question, 744 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 2: whatever you want, Send us an email The Real Story 745 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 2: at Novapodcasts dot com dot au, or you can direct 746 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,320 Speaker 2: message me on Instagram, because yes, I'm a middle aged white. 747 00:36:58,080 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 3: Man on Instagram. 748 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 2: That's just how I My handle is that what the 749 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 2: young people call it is at Joe Underscore hild around. 750 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 2: I've also got a hot mail address, so you know, 751 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,760 Speaker 2: just deal with that, Millennials, and we will be back 752 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 2: next week. If you miss me too much, you can 753 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 2: always read meeting in the Daily Telegraph on Mondays and Saturdays, 754 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 2: but otherwise 755 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 3: I'll speak to you soon