Speaker 1: Yeah, my name's Daniel van Setton. I spent twelve years,
Speaker 1: almost twelve years in prison. It's like groundhog Day. Generally speaking,
Speaker 1: you'd get a wake up call at about seven point
Speaker 1: thirty to stand outside your cell, and then you might
Speaker 1: start work at about eight thirty or nine o'clock. If
Speaker 1: you're working in the prison. You'd be returned back to
Speaker 1: the unit at about lunchtime. For lunch. You may return
Speaker 1: back to your workplace about one o'clock to about three
Speaker 1: point thirty in the afternoon, and then you'd be sent
Speaker 1: back to your unit or your cell. And depending on
Speaker 1: what prison you're in, you could have lockdown as early
Speaker 1: as three point thirty to four o'clock, or if you're
Speaker 1: in a more privileged prison, lockdown might be at eight
Speaker 1: o'clock that night. One of the issues in prison is
Speaker 1: the chronic boredom and lack of meaningful activities to do
Speaker 1: in prison, and that has a detriment of to rehabilitation.
Speaker 2: Part of that period that Daniels locked away for was
Speaker 2: during COVID that amplified the feeling of boredom, but not
Speaker 2: only that, it was next to impossible to find out
Speaker 2: information about what was happening across the prison system. Prisoners
Speaker 2: were locked down for weeks with limited access to news.
Speaker 1: You know, the level of uncertainty was just unbelievable. Some
Speaker 1: people thought that we were going to get out of
Speaker 1: prison early because of it, and some people thought that
Speaker 1: we might die in prison because of the COVID and
Speaker 1: there was a period of time where we were even
Speaker 1: struggling to get food. The prison authorities generally like to
Speaker 1: keep information close to themselves about issues that might affect
Speaker 1: the administration of the prison, so there was yeah, really
Speaker 1: no information given to us.
Speaker 2: That lack of information also spread to other aspects of
Speaker 2: the prison system, really important expects to do for getting released.
Speaker 1: Another thing that was cut off was rehabilitation courses, and
Speaker 1: these courses are significant because you won't get parole unless
Speaker 1: the rehabilitation course is completed, and these courses go for
Speaker 1: around six months each course. The whole course system was
Speaker 1: shut down. Another significant issue actually which affected me was
Speaker 1: I was due to see the Parole Board and the
Speaker 1: South Australian Parole Board closed and we had no information
Speaker 1: about how long that would be for when it would reopen,
Speaker 1: what the plan was to deal with that, So that
Speaker 1: actually delayed my parole. In the end by two years.
Speaker 2: Daniel was now out. He was released in twenty twenty two,
Speaker 2: but when he heard about the idea of a national
Speaker 2: newspaper for prisoners by prisoners, he jumped at the opportunity
Speaker 2: to be involved. From sports media. I'm Daniel James. This
Speaker 2: is seven AM. The incarceration system in Australia can be
Speaker 2: an information black hole. About Time is a national paper
Speaker 2: trying to directify that the free paper is available to
Speaker 2: approximately twenty one thousand prisoners in Tasmania, Victoria, the New
Speaker 2: South Wales and the Act. It's tailored to prison life
Speaker 2: and hopes to get information in and out of prisons
Speaker 2: and create a community among incarcerated people today. A contributor
Speaker 2: to About Time Daniel Van Setten and the paper's managing
Speaker 2: director Rosie Hasliv on giving prisoners a voice and the
Speaker 2: empathy that they hope comes from that. It's Friday, September thirteenth. Rosie.
Speaker 2: Can we start off by giving you introduce yourself for
Speaker 2: who you are and what you do.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 4: My name is Rosi Lev and I'm the managing director
Speaker 4: at About Time.
Speaker 2: Rosie. Can you take us to the moment when the
Speaker 2: idea to start a newspaper about prisons and prisoners came
Speaker 2: to you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it started around twenty twenty one. I was working
Speaker 4: as a human rights administrative law lawyer in Community Law,
Speaker 4: a Fitzroy Legal service, and we ran an advice line
Speaker 4: for people in prison and I was speaking to people
Speaker 4: inside nearly every day and I was sensing a real
Speaker 4: frustration on the lack of information people were getting and
Speaker 4: the lack of ability to express themselves as well. So
Speaker 4: people in prison are very fragmented, it isolated from issues
Speaker 4: that really affect them. And around this time I received
Speaker 4: an email from Now co founder Joe Friedman who said, Hey,
Speaker 4: I've just listened to a podcast about a newspaper in
Speaker 4: the UK called Inside Time, and it's a prison based newspaper.
Speaker 4: It's been around since the nineties. Is there something like
Speaker 4: that in Australia? And I said no, not to my knowledge,
Speaker 4: but we really need one, so that's why we wanted
Speaker 4: to create a newspaper. There is also an element of
Speaker 4: the paper which is a platform for people to write
Speaker 4: and to hear about other people and how they have
Speaker 4: processed through prison and outside into the community. Really gained
Speaker 4: a sense of hope that this is just a moment
Speaker 4: in time, and imprisonment is not forever. Ultimately, we want
Speaker 4: this paper to be fully autonomous and run by people
Speaker 4: who had lived experience of imprisonment, so that people can
Speaker 4: have a sense of dignity and control over their lives
Speaker 4: and to provide a platform where you can express yourself
Speaker 4: your stories, but listen to other people's stories.
Speaker 3: That is what we want to do.
Speaker 2: So how long did it take from the inception of
Speaker 2: the idea to actually getting it up and happening.
Speaker 4: So we started in twenty twenty one and it took
Speaker 4: a long time and a lot of work to get
Speaker 4: to the launch of the paper in July this year
Speaker 4: and a big hurdle that we've had is to get
Speaker 4: approval from corrections departments to get the paper inside. And
Speaker 4: we finally at a point where you know, we have Victoria,
Speaker 4: New South Wales, Tasmania Act and coming on from the
Speaker 4: ex edition and the edition following will be South Australia
Speaker 4: and Queensland. So I think it's just a lesson if
Speaker 4: you want to do something, you have time and resources,
Speaker 4: don't give up.
Speaker 2: Can you take us back to the time when the
Speaker 2: first edition was about to be printed and published. What
Speaker 2: was it like the day of the publishing of that
Speaker 2: first edition.
Speaker 3: It was a very exciting day.
Speaker 4: We hadn't slept for a few days, just anticipating a response.
Speaker 4: I think the thing with this is our main audience
Speaker 4: as people in prison, so it's very hard to know
Speaker 4: initially what the response is. But after a few days
Speaker 4: getting messages on emails and Facebook from family members saying
Speaker 4: we've been really dying to hear and get something like this,
Speaker 4: and thank you, I think that that was the most
Speaker 4: important thing for us.
Speaker 2: Have you gotten any specific feedback about the impact about
Speaker 2: time has had.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you'll indulge me, I would like to read
Speaker 4: a section from a letter we received, And this is
Speaker 4: from Joe, who wrote from Metropolitan Romand Center in Victoria,
Speaker 4: and he says, I right to extend feedback about your
Speaker 4: monthly paper. I must say it was with more than
Speaker 4: the usual measuring spoon of interest that most here at
Speaker 4: mc welcomed its arrival. Upon finding it in our respective mailboxes,
Speaker 4: it caused a stir, a tad like the discovery of
Speaker 4: gold in ballarat, a buzz some leaf the pages quietly absorbed,
Speaker 4: some flock together, applauding the contents a small tidy group
Speaker 4: of indigenous fellas loudly and proudly celebrated inclusion of the
Speaker 4: artwork of a dear friend of mine, Chris in short
Speaker 4: conversation thrived the overall reaction across the board favorable. At
Speaker 4: age fifty four, I was a first time at prison.
Speaker 4: An enormity of life experiences meant I'm able to assist
Speaker 4: peers here in various ways. Principally, though, I guide their
Speaker 4: journey to accept that they are more, much more than
Speaker 4: their crime a transgression. The will to change begins with
Speaker 4: the humblest of realizations.
Speaker 3: Like dropping certain habits.
Speaker 4: Hence, I summarize that moving away from healthy habits prompts
Speaker 4: a kind of reboot, a reset to those originally God
Speaker 4: gifted settings we were born with prior to nibbling or
Speaker 4: gorging the poisoned apple. To wrap it up, your monthly
Speaker 4: publication offers us not only hope and solidarity, but a
Speaker 4: sense of dignity, and that is something that some.
Speaker 3: Have never experienced.
Speaker 4: Hearing that and knowing that some dignity is being given
Speaker 4: like that is we know we're doing the right thing.
Speaker 2: After the break. How two way empathy is the goal
Speaker 2: of About Time. Rosie. You said that you first discussed
Speaker 2: the idea of About Time when there was nothing else
Speaker 2: like it in Australia from a national perspective, but there
Speaker 2: were prison newspapers in isolation before that. What were those
Speaker 2: newspapers like and how did they inform your process in
Speaker 2: establishing About.
Speaker 4: Timeh Absolutely, the national element of our paper is unique,
Speaker 4: but prison newsletters in prison media is definitely not. There
Speaker 4: is an article about the history of prison newspapers and
Speaker 4: the current edition of About Time written by Damian Lanane
Speaker 4: who's doing his PhD on this topic actually, and he
Speaker 4: has found eighty different newsletters over nine hundred editions, with
Speaker 4: the earliest one he found from nineteen twelve, so we're definitely.
Speaker 3: Not the first.
Speaker 4: And there are other publications available at the moment, like
Speaker 4: Paper Trained, which is actually edited by Damian Lenane.
Speaker 3: It's an art journal. So the idea is not novel.
Speaker 4: It's about being informed by what's gone before us and
Speaker 4: creating something that is a bit unique, which is getting
Speaker 4: a national sense, because the national element is really important
Speaker 4: to us to provide a cohesion, a solidarity against the
Speaker 4: real fragmented nature of prisons.
Speaker 2: About Time is as much about prisoner reform, prisoner welfare.
Speaker 2: But there's also an aspect to it if you were
Speaker 2: to read it as a member of the general public.
Speaker 2: The actual quality of what is being written is very high.
Speaker 2: What's the process to get that type of quality of
Speaker 2: content in the paper?
Speaker 4: The submissions we're receiving of high quality, and it's just
Speaker 4: to show that people in prison are very talented and
Speaker 4: have a really strong voice. Also, we've gotten volunteer journalists
Speaker 4: that are very invested and interested in criminal justice reform
Speaker 4: and are committed to this project. We've gotten psychologists and
Speaker 4: therapists that are writing real quality advice and information for people.
Speaker 4: So it's a real community effort. But for readers in
Speaker 4: the public, it's a great read. If society views people
Speaker 4: in prison as people, then the response can create change
Speaker 4: can be rarely generative, you know, policy change that can
Speaker 4: flow from that, and prospects of reintegration into the community,
Speaker 4: different types of investments. This is all what we foresee
Speaker 4: that can happen once we humanize a criminalized population, and
Speaker 4: it's about creating a society that everyone deserves to be
Speaker 4: treated with dignity and respect and human rights.
Speaker 2: Rosie, thank you for your time.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 2: So, Daniel, tell me about your experience writing for About Time.
Speaker 2: What did you write about?
Speaker 1: I actually shared just a personal experience in about eight
Speaker 1: hundred words of my journey through prison, how I went
Speaker 1: through to be interested in law and then make the
Speaker 1: transition to study law on the outside. I enjoy sharing
Speaker 1: my experience and I hope that by producing articles for
Speaker 1: the paper, it inspires people to get involved as well.
Speaker 1: People can share hardships or share how they've overcome hardships
Speaker 1: in prison, and I think it's important that people in
Speaker 1: prison maintain that sense of community, definitely because they're going
Speaker 1: to be released one day. And there's also an issue
Speaker 1: with I guess, self esteem and self worth in prison.
Speaker 1: So if you are able to get a piece published
Speaker 1: in a newspaper, brings about a sense of self worth
Speaker 1: and pride to see your piece published in the paper.
Speaker 1: A unique thing about this paper is that it's available
Speaker 1: to the community. The papers published online, and I think
Speaker 1: this is really important to help reduce the stigmatization that
Speaker 1: is often caused by mainstream media who when they speak
Speaker 1: about people in prison, they're generally speaking about the crime
Speaker 1: they committed or the offense they committed and we don't
Speaker 1: hear about the positive things that people do in prison.
Speaker 1: So having this paper available to the community will help,
Speaker 1: I guess, reduce the fear and stigmatization, allow people to
Speaker 1: see some of the positive things that people are doing
Speaker 1: in prison, to rehabilitate themselves, and to give these people
Speaker 1: more of a a humanistic character, I guess, which will
Speaker 1: help the process of reintegration when people are released into
Speaker 1: the community.
Speaker 2: Daniel, thank you for your time.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Daniel.
Speaker 2: Also in the news today, up to nine Australian commanders
Speaker 2: who served in the Afghan War have been stripped of
Speaker 2: their awards, finalizing the government's response to the Brarit inquiry
Speaker 2: into alleged war crimes. Defense Minister Richard Marles has sent
Speaker 2: letters to the relevant senior soldiers informing them of his decision,
Speaker 2: but has not revealed how many have been affected or
Speaker 2: their identities. And the UN Palestinian Refugee Agency and rah
Speaker 2: says six of its staff have been killed in two
Speaker 2: air strikes on a school in Gaza, marking what it
Speaker 2: says is the highest death toll amongst its staff in
Speaker 2: a single incident. The Garza government media officers, the Israeli
Speaker 2: strike killed at least twelve others. Seven Am is a
Speaker 2: daily show from Schwartz Media and the Saturday Paper. Is
Speaker 2: produced by Shane Anderson, Zoltnfetio, and Zia Tangleral. Our technical
Speaker 2: producer is Anigus Basto. We're edited by Chris Danegate and
Speaker 2: Sarah McPhee. Eric Jensen is our editor in chief. Our
Speaker 2: mixer is Traviser Evans. Our theme music is by Ned
Speaker 2: Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envaloe Bortio. Seven Am is
Speaker 2: hosted by Ruby Jones and myself, Daniel James. See you
Speaker 2: next week.