WEBVTT - Australia’s first national newspaper – for prisoners, by prisoners 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:05.400 Yeah, my name's Daniel van Setton. I spent twelve years, 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:12.720 almost twelve years in prison. It's like groundhog Day. Generally speaking, 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:15.880 you'd get a wake up call at about seven point 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.160 thirty to stand outside your cell, and then you might 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:21.840 start work at about eight thirty or nine o'clock. If 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.400 you're working in the prison. You'd be returned back to 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:28.560 the unit at about lunchtime. For lunch. You may return 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.120 back to your workplace about one o'clock to about three 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:34.840 point thirty in the afternoon, and then you'd be sent 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:38.720 back to your unit or your cell. And depending on 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.480 what prison you're in, you could have lockdown as early 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.479 as three point thirty to four o'clock, or if you're 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:46.839 in a more privileged prison, lockdown might be at eight 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:52.279 o'clock that night. One of the issues in prison is 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:56.520 the chronic boredom and lack of meaningful activities to do 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:01.040 in prison, and that has a detriment of to rehabilitation. 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.360 Part of that period that Daniels locked away for was 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:09.680 during COVID that amplified the feeling of boredom, but not 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:12.000 only that, it was next to impossible to find out 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:17.000 information about what was happening across the prison system. Prisoners 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.960 were locked down for weeks with limited access to news. 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.280 You know, the level of uncertainty was just unbelievable. Some 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.160 people thought that we were going to get out of 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.640 prison early because of it, and some people thought that 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:33.240 we might die in prison because of the COVID and 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:35.600 there was a period of time where we were even 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:40.280 struggling to get food. The prison authorities generally like to 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:43.880 keep information close to themselves about issues that might affect 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:49.560 the administration of the prison, so there was yeah, really 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:51.800 no information given to us. 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:56.680 That lack of information also spread to other aspects of 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:00.960 the prison system, really important expects to do for getting released. 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:06.040 Another thing that was cut off was rehabilitation courses, and 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:10.160 these courses are significant because you won't get parole unless 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:13.079 the rehabilitation course is completed, and these courses go for 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:17.079 around six months each course. The whole course system was 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:21.000 shut down. Another significant issue actually which affected me was 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:24.000 I was due to see the Parole Board and the 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:28.240 South Australian Parole Board closed and we had no information 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.359 about how long that would be for when it would reopen, 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:36.000 what the plan was to deal with that, So that 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.520 actually delayed my parole. In the end by two years. 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.000 Daniel was now out. He was released in twenty twenty two, 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:45.720 but when he heard about the idea of a national 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:50.040 newspaper for prisoners by prisoners, he jumped at the opportunity 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:54.880 to be involved. From sports media. I'm Daniel James. This 0:02:54.960 --> 0:03:03.000 is seven AM. The incarceration system in Australia can be 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:07.079 an information black hole. About Time is a national paper 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:10.480 trying to directify that the free paper is available to 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:14.240 approximately twenty one thousand prisoners in Tasmania, Victoria, the New 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:18.280 South Wales and the Act. It's tailored to prison life 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.400 and hopes to get information in and out of prisons 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:27.000 and create a community among incarcerated people today. A contributor 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:30.120 to About Time Daniel Van Setten and the paper's managing 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:33.480 director Rosie Hasliv on giving prisoners a voice and the 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:54.360 empathy that they hope comes from that. It's Friday, September thirteenth. Rosie. 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:57.040 Can we start off by giving you introduce yourself for 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:58.040 who you are and what you do. 0:03:58.440 --> 0:03:58.920 Thank you. 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.760 My name is Rosi Lev and I'm the managing director 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:04.040 at About Time. 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:06.840 Rosie. Can you take us to the moment when the 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:10.960 idea to start a newspaper about prisons and prisoners came 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:11.200 to you. 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:17.080 Yeah, it started around twenty twenty one. I was working 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:23.160 as a human rights administrative law lawyer in Community Law, 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:27.039 a Fitzroy Legal service, and we ran an advice line 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:31.000 for people in prison and I was speaking to people 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:37.480 inside nearly every day and I was sensing a real 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:41.240 frustration on the lack of information people were getting and 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.800 the lack of ability to express themselves as well. So 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:48.880 people in prison are very fragmented, it isolated from issues 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:52.599 that really affect them. And around this time I received 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:57.200 an email from Now co founder Joe Friedman who said, Hey, 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:00.320 I've just listened to a podcast about a newspaper in 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:05.120 the UK called Inside Time, and it's a prison based newspaper. 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:07.960 It's been around since the nineties. Is there something like 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.320 that in Australia? And I said no, not to my knowledge, 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:15.080 but we really need one, so that's why we wanted 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:18.839 to create a newspaper. There is also an element of 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.240 the paper which is a platform for people to write 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.440 and to hear about other people and how they have 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:30.640 processed through prison and outside into the community. Really gained 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:32.560 a sense of hope that this is just a moment 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:37.400 in time, and imprisonment is not forever. Ultimately, we want 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:41.160 this paper to be fully autonomous and run by people 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:45.599 who had lived experience of imprisonment, so that people can 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.599 have a sense of dignity and control over their lives 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:53.680 and to provide a platform where you can express yourself 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.440 your stories, but listen to other people's stories. 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:57.800 That is what we want to do. 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.200 So how long did it take from the inception of 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:04.120 the idea to actually getting it up and happening. 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.480 So we started in twenty twenty one and it took 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:09.880 a long time and a lot of work to get 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:13.000 to the launch of the paper in July this year 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:17.520 and a big hurdle that we've had is to get 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:22.360 approval from corrections departments to get the paper inside. And 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:27.560 we finally at a point where you know, we have Victoria, 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.840 New South Wales, Tasmania Act and coming on from the 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.599 ex edition and the edition following will be South Australia 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.600 and Queensland. So I think it's just a lesson if 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:39.560 you want to do something, you have time and resources, 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:40.360 don't give up. 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:43.600 Can you take us back to the time when the 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:47.480 first edition was about to be printed and published. What 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:51.000 was it like the day of the publishing of that 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:51.760 first edition. 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:53.599 It was a very exciting day. 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:58.040 We hadn't slept for a few days, just anticipating a response. 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:02.040 I think the thing with this is our main audience 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.640 as people in prison, so it's very hard to know 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:09.320 initially what the response is. But after a few days 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:13.960 getting messages on emails and Facebook from family members saying 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.960 we've been really dying to hear and get something like this, 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.000 and thank you, I think that that was the most 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:21.000 important thing for us. 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:25.000 Have you gotten any specific feedback about the impact about 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:25.960 time has had. 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.480 Yeah, if you'll indulge me, I would like to read 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:32.960 a section from a letter we received, And this is 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:38.480 from Joe, who wrote from Metropolitan Romand Center in Victoria, 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.080 and he says, I right to extend feedback about your 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.160 monthly paper. I must say it was with more than 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.320 the usual measuring spoon of interest that most here at 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:52.920 mc welcomed its arrival. Upon finding it in our respective mailboxes, 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.120 it caused a stir, a tad like the discovery of 0:07:56.160 --> 0:08:01.320 gold in ballarat, a buzz some leaf the pages quietly absorbed, 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:05.120 some flock together, applauding the contents a small tidy group 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.960 of indigenous fellas loudly and proudly celebrated inclusion of the 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:11.920 artwork of a dear friend of mine, Chris in short 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:16.320 conversation thrived the overall reaction across the board favorable. At 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.800 age fifty four, I was a first time at prison. 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:21.960 An enormity of life experiences meant I'm able to assist 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:25.360 peers here in various ways. Principally, though, I guide their 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.400 journey to accept that they are more, much more than 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:31.440 their crime a transgression. The will to change begins with 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.679 the humblest of realizations. 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:34.880 Like dropping certain habits. 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:39.160 Hence, I summarize that moving away from healthy habits prompts 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:42.240 a kind of reboot, a reset to those originally God 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.000 gifted settings we were born with prior to nibbling or 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:48.760 gorging the poisoned apple. To wrap it up, your monthly 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:52.480 publication offers us not only hope and solidarity, but a 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.400 sense of dignity, and that is something that some. 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:56.800 Have never experienced. 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:01.640 Hearing that and knowing that some dignity is being given 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:03.760 like that is we know we're doing the right thing. 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:08.960 After the break. How two way empathy is the goal 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:21.199 of About Time. Rosie. You said that you first discussed 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.520 the idea of About Time when there was nothing else 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.679 like it in Australia from a national perspective, but there 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:30.440 were prison newspapers in isolation before that. What were those 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:33.480 newspapers like and how did they inform your process in 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:34.760 establishing About. 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:38.640 Timeh Absolutely, the national element of our paper is unique, 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:43.559 but prison newsletters in prison media is definitely not. There 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:47.560 is an article about the history of prison newspapers and 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:51.080 the current edition of About Time written by Damian Lanane 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:54.360 who's doing his PhD on this topic actually, and he 0:09:54.440 --> 0:10:00.200 has found eighty different newsletters over nine hundred editions, with 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:04.400 the earliest one he found from nineteen twelve, so we're definitely. 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:04.760 Not the first. 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:09.360 And there are other publications available at the moment, like 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.720 Paper Trained, which is actually edited by Damian Lenane. 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:17.240 It's an art journal. So the idea is not novel. 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.440 It's about being informed by what's gone before us and 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:22.920 creating something that is a bit unique, which is getting 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.800 a national sense, because the national element is really important 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:31.480 to us to provide a cohesion, a solidarity against the 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.079 real fragmented nature of prisons. 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:39.559 About Time is as much about prisoner reform, prisoner welfare. 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:42.240 But there's also an aspect to it if you were 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:43.920 to read it as a member of the general public. 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:49.320 The actual quality of what is being written is very high. 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.160 What's the process to get that type of quality of 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:53.640 content in the paper? 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:58.280 The submissions we're receiving of high quality, and it's just 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:02.560 to show that people in prison are very talented and 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:08.040 have a really strong voice. Also, we've gotten volunteer journalists 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:12.240 that are very invested and interested in criminal justice reform 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:18.560 and are committed to this project. We've gotten psychologists and 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:24.560 therapists that are writing real quality advice and information for people. 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:29.679 So it's a real community effort. But for readers in 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:35.400 the public, it's a great read. If society views people 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:40.240 in prison as people, then the response can create change 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:43.400 can be rarely generative, you know, policy change that can 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:49.120 flow from that, and prospects of reintegration into the community, 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:52.600 different types of investments. This is all what we foresee 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:57.839 that can happen once we humanize a criminalized population, and 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:02.480 it's about creating a society that everyone deserves to be 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.679 treated with dignity and respect and human rights. 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:08.920 Rosie, thank you for your time. 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:10.720 Thank you very much for having me. 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.360 So, Daniel, tell me about your experience writing for About Time. 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:18.559 What did you write about? 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:24.319 I actually shared just a personal experience in about eight 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:29.360 hundred words of my journey through prison, how I went 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:34.120 through to be interested in law and then make the 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.760 transition to study law on the outside. I enjoy sharing 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:41.960 my experience and I hope that by producing articles for 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:45.080 the paper, it inspires people to get involved as well. 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:50.720 People can share hardships or share how they've overcome hardships 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.040 in prison, and I think it's important that people in 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.840 prison maintain that sense of community, definitely because they're going 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:01.280 to be released one day. And there's also an issue 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.520 with I guess, self esteem and self worth in prison. 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.640 So if you are able to get a piece published 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:11.760 in a newspaper, brings about a sense of self worth 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.360 and pride to see your piece published in the paper. 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:22.280 A unique thing about this paper is that it's available 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.680 to the community. The papers published online, and I think 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:30.040 this is really important to help reduce the stigmatization that 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:35.400 is often caused by mainstream media who when they speak 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:38.079 about people in prison, they're generally speaking about the crime 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.200 they committed or the offense they committed and we don't 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:43.480 hear about the positive things that people do in prison. 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:48.400 So having this paper available to the community will help, 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.760 I guess, reduce the fear and stigmatization, allow people to 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.840 see some of the positive things that people are doing 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:59.120 in prison, to rehabilitate themselves, and to give these people 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:05.040 more of a a humanistic character, I guess, which will 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.120 help the process of reintegration when people are released into 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:08.720 the community. 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:11.880 Daniel, thank you for your time. 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:12.840 Thank you, Daniel. 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.120 Also in the news today, up to nine Australian commanders 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.280 who served in the Afghan War have been stripped of 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:36.200 their awards, finalizing the government's response to the Brarit inquiry 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:40.520 into alleged war crimes. Defense Minister Richard Marles has sent 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:44.000 letters to the relevant senior soldiers informing them of his decision, 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:46.640 but has not revealed how many have been affected or 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:51.640 their identities. And the UN Palestinian Refugee Agency and rah 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:53.760 says six of its staff have been killed in two 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.960 air strikes on a school in Gaza, marking what it 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.600 says is the highest death toll amongst its staff in 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:03.760 a single incident. The Garza government media officers, the Israeli 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:10.400 strike killed at least twelve others. Seven Am is a 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.640 daily show from Schwartz Media and the Saturday Paper. Is 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:17.800 produced by Shane Anderson, Zoltnfetio, and Zia Tangleral. Our technical 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:21.440 producer is Anigus Basto. We're edited by Chris Danegate and 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:25.160 Sarah McPhee. Eric Jensen is our editor in chief. Our 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:28.520 mixer is Traviser Evans. Our theme music is by Ned 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.080 Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envaloe Bortio. Seven Am is 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.840 hosted by Ruby Jones and myself, Daniel James. See you 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:36.360 next week.