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Speaker 1: Legislation has been introduced into State Parliament for the electoral

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Speaker 1: donation ban, the government saying the State government saying this

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Speaker 1: is world leading and also an election commitment. The Electoral

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Speaker 1: Accountability and Integrity Amendment Bill. This will change the way

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Speaker 1: politicians in South Australia and State parliament raise money for

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Speaker 1: their campaigns for standing for parliament donations whether they're independents

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Speaker 1: or political parties to getting them elected. Let's have a

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Speaker 1: chat to the Premier about it. Premier Peter Malanowskas.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Good morning, Matthew, Good morning your listeners.

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Speaker 1: So what is this intended to do. Is it to

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Speaker 1: change the way funds are raised by mp standing for election?

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Speaker 2: Pretty much, yes, Matthew. So I announced our commitment to

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Speaker 2: do this prior to the last election, so it constitutes

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Speaker 2: an election commitment because I've had a long held view

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Speaker 2: and this is a bit of a passion of mine,

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Speaker 2: that we've got to get money out of politics. The

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Speaker 2: idea that big donors, whether they be unions or businesses

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Speaker 2: or anybody else, somehow gets access to politicians over and

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Speaker 2: above ordinary people because they have deep bockets is something

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Speaker 2: that's never sat well with me. So I committed that

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Speaker 2: I would legislate to ban anybody from donating to political parties.

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Speaker 2: And like I said, that's unions, that's businesses, as wealthy individuals,

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Speaker 2: you name it. And we've been working really hard on

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Speaker 2: this legislation for a long time. We released it for

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Speaker 2: public consultation following a speech I gave to the Hawk

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Speaker 2: Center in June. As a result of that consultation, there

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Speaker 2: has been a lot of changes that have made. But

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Speaker 2: the bill was introduced into the Parliament this week and

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Speaker 2: we hope that it will pass the Parliment because it'll

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Speaker 2: be another example of South Australia, you know, setting an

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Speaker 2: example internationally on how we've got to invest in reform

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Speaker 2: of our democracy if we expect it to survive the

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Speaker 2: strains that it's under around the world. And I think

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Speaker 2: getting money out of politics will let me improve the

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Speaker 2: integrity of a democratic process.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people would agree with what

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Speaker 1: you've said, but I want to ask about independence and

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Speaker 1: smaller parties. Does it make it harder for them in

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Speaker 1: a democracy to win? No.

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Speaker 2: In fact, this is one of the reasons why it's

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Speaker 2: been so difficult for me. You know, I'll speak frankly

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Speaker 2: with you even internally in the Labor Party, because this

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Speaker 2: is a the reform as it is designed is actually

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Speaker 2: giving a massive leg up to independence and smaller parties

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Speaker 2: at the expense of major parties. And you know, that's

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Speaker 2: a difficult pill to swallow for me as a as

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Speaker 2: a leader of a major party.

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Speaker 1: But well, what are you doing? Yeah, because the right.

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Speaker 2: People are single about political leaders and I get that,

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Speaker 2: but I'm doing this because I think it's the right

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Speaker 2: thing to do, and I've made a commitment around it.

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Speaker 2: You know, look at the US, Matthew. You know, we've

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Speaker 2: now got a situation over there, and I know that's

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Speaker 2: the extreme, but nonetheless we've got a situation over there

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Speaker 2: where candidates and politicians, members of Congress have to spend

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Speaker 2: up to eighty percent of their time fundraising. I think

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Speaker 2: about it. That makes the professional telemarketers not professionals who

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Speaker 2: are committed to serving their own communities. It's crazy, and

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Speaker 2: I think we've got to cut this off the pass

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Speaker 2: in Australia. So what we've done is we've put in

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Speaker 2: place of public funding. We've already got a public funding

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Speaker 2: model in South Australia. That's true around almost every around

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Speaker 2: the country, including federally, but we've adjusted the public funding

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Speaker 2: model that gives a lot more money to independence relatively

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Speaker 2: to major parties, and also more money to independence and

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Speaker 2: small parties relative to major parties, and then we've capped it.

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Speaker 2: We've reduced to spending gap, so you know that it's

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Speaker 2: a you know, we engage with constitutional experts, other advocates

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Speaker 2: outside of politicians themselves, including the Center for Public Integrity,

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Speaker 2: who was initially quite concerned about the very issue that

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Speaker 2: you've asked about, but we've made changes to accommodate their concerns,

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Speaker 2: which all adds up to me and that this is

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Speaker 2: probably not in the interest of the Labor Party politically,

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Speaker 2: I've got to say. But like I said, I've been

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Speaker 2: driving this because I think in the long term it

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Speaker 2: makes for a stronger democracy. And you know, someone passed

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Speaker 2: on to me a line that I'm a common deer,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's true. I heard this from a

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Speaker 2: school parent. They said, you know, we don't want the

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Speaker 2: best democracy that money can buy. Yes, And I think

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Speaker 2: that's true. So yeah, so let's says in the Parliament

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Speaker 2: and we'll see if it passes. But it's actually generated

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Speaker 2: a lot of international interests as well, because it's quite

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Speaker 2: by and it's ambitioned.

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Speaker 1: All right, this means though taxpayer is going to be

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Speaker 1: forking out more to make up that difference, doesn't it.

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Speaker 1: As that's what you're talking about, your funding the party.

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Speaker 1: So this is coming out of the taxpayers pocket. Is

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Speaker 1: that the right thing to do?

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Speaker 2: I think so? Yes, that already happens, So you know,

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Speaker 2: taxpayers fund elections. Taxpayers already have fun public funding regimes

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Speaker 2: of political parties on the left and the right of

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Speaker 2: the political spectrum and everything in between, so that that

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Speaker 2: already happens. This does result in more of that, that

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Speaker 2: is absolutely true. But the benefit of it is it

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Speaker 2: means that South Australians will know should the legislation pass

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Speaker 2: the Parliament, they will know the next election. But the

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Speaker 2: only thing that is driving the activity of politics and

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Speaker 2: policy is what is consistent with that party or that

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Speaker 2: individual candidate's ideology and their view about what that how

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Speaker 2: that should reflect itself in terms of policy. And this

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Speaker 2: is my argument, like what's your determined election outcomes? Well,

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you what should the quality of a party,

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Speaker 2: it's leadership and its candidates and its policy. That's what

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Speaker 2: should inform you be on top of people's minds, not

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Speaker 2: which party has been able to raise the most money

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Speaker 2: in between an elections to give them a leg up

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Speaker 2: in campaigning. So we're creating a level playing field. It's

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Speaker 2: creating a level playing field the contrary to the interest

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Speaker 2: of my party at the moment. But like I said,

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't I don't know if we were

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Speaker 2: not we're not willing to do this now, and I

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Speaker 2: don't know whoever, who will we win?

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Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, So debate stalled yesterday when Frank Pangalo

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Speaker 1: in the Upper House made the point that MP's who

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Speaker 1: are currently there standing for election at the next poll

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Speaker 1: presumably get funding public money and then lose, so they

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Speaker 1: have to pay that back out of their pocket. As

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Speaker 1: the legislation stands.

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Speaker 2: Well well so in the bills in the Upper House.

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Speaker 2: It got introduced in the Upper House for a range

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Speaker 2: of reasons, and in the Upper House is the House

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Speaker 2: of Review, there is always scrutiny of various clauses and

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Speaker 2: provisions within the bill. Franks raised that I was on

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Speaker 2: the phone quite late last night as this was being

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Speaker 2: errated in the Parliament, and as a consequence, the debate

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Speaker 2: was adjourned, and I think we're going to be able

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Speaker 2: to find amendment that hopefully covers off of this issue

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Speaker 2: to get the balance right. See, the balance that the

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Speaker 2: bill seeks to pursue is making sure that public funding

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Speaker 2: is there and available for minor parties, independence, even people

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Speaker 2: who are outside of the parliament. New entrants like this

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Speaker 2: provides public funding for a new entrance so that new

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Speaker 2: ideas and new people and new parties can be formed

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Speaker 2: and given a chance of success. But you've got to

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Speaker 2: get the balance right between how much money you fund

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Speaker 2: them relative to their you know, you know, their their

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Speaker 2: capacity relative to when I say, their capacity relative to

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Speaker 2: a degree of public support, which is why you have

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Speaker 2: a funding model that in part is informed by the

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Speaker 2: amount of votes you get in an election. So, but

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Speaker 2: the Franks raised a particular technical issue that I think

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Speaker 2: is worthy of consideration, and work has been happening throughout

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Speaker 2: the course of yesterday evening and that will continue this

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Speaker 2: morning to see if the issue can't be covered off

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Speaker 2: on all.

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Speaker 1: Right, you say eighty percent of the time in the

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Speaker 1: US spent fundraising, only MP's candidates are going to be

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Speaker 1: doing this a lot more moving forward, aren't they. In

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Speaker 1: terms of maybe what we'll see them at sausage sizzles

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Speaker 1: and Bunning's not a bad way to meet constituents.

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Speaker 2: I guess well they should be doing that anyway. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is the point. But rather than fundraising for themselves,

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Speaker 2: let's fundraise for the local lines club or the local

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Speaker 2: netball club or you know, you know guitar association. I

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Speaker 2: don't care, like I think MP should be doing that

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Speaker 2: community work in the interest of the community rather than

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Speaker 2: now they're trying to drum up funds for their own

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Speaker 2: political campaigns. Wouldn't that be a better way to go? Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: And that's what we're what that's what we're seeking to achieve. Now, look,

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Speaker 2: you know, the when you get into the detail of this,

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Speaker 2: the principle is sound, but the delivery is complex and

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Speaker 2: we've put an awful amount of work into this to

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Speaker 2: get it right. It's got to be able to navigate

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Speaker 2: a range of principles that have been established by the

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Speaker 2: High Court that we're actively considered, hence the engagement with

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Speaker 2: constitution experts. But we've got something that we think is

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Speaker 2: worthy of giving a go, and there's a statue review

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Speaker 2: process that's within the bill as well. So that if

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Speaker 2: they are a justice that needs to be made in

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Speaker 2: the future, that can be all right.

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Speaker 1: Black by election looming, are you confident on the weekend?

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Speaker 2: Ah, it's a by election, Matthew. I think you know.

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Speaker 2: By elections are always tricky for governments.

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Speaker 1: You won the last one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a look and we were very grateful

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Speaker 2: for the report that we received. But you know, I

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Speaker 2: think where I'm very keen in my own party to

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Speaker 2: make sure that people don't read too much into that.

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Speaker 2: The last time there was a government want a seat

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Speaker 2: off an opposition at a bar election before Dunston was

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Speaker 2: I think back in nineteen o eight and that was

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Speaker 2: the seat of the Northern Territory when the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: was still part of South Australia. So and this time

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Speaker 2: the margin's a bit bigger. So look, I mean we've

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Speaker 2: put our book best case forward. We've actually pre selected

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Speaker 2: someone who lives in the electorate. The Liberal candidate doesn't

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Speaker 2: even can't even vote because she's not even in the

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Speaker 2: electric so we think there's a contrast there. We've put

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Speaker 2: a few ideas on the table, so we've given our

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Speaker 2: best shot. But I'll never I never go to these

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Speaker 2: things with expectations.

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Speaker 1: All right, and finally ramping numbers down and you'd be

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Speaker 1: pleased with that, but still above where they were at

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Speaker 1: the last election. You know, you'll be touching would wherever

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Speaker 1: you can find it.

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Speaker 2: I guess, well, well, this is the best set of

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Speaker 2: October figures. So the data that came out with October,

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Speaker 2: this is the best set of October figures since twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty one. It's you know, a couple of months now

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Speaker 2: in a row, but coming down and coming down a lot.

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Speaker 2: It's coming down forty six percent over the last three months.

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Speaker 2: That's a fair drink, but in a fair way. But

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Speaker 2: we we have not I was very clear in the

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Speaker 2: press conference is now we are not claiming victory. There's

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Speaker 2: a long way to go. Mus response times have improved

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Speaker 2: a lot, but you know, we've got what what gives

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Speaker 2: us just a degree of hope is that as more

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Speaker 2: beds are starting to come online, as we've been building

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Speaker 2: them for the last you know, two and a half years,

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Speaker 2: as those beds are now starting to come online, it

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Speaker 2: is starting to provide relief to the system.

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Speaker 3: And the best.

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Speaker 2: Example of that is all the beds that we opened

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Speaker 2: up at Lyle Mac that took us a couple of

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Speaker 2: years to build. But as those beds opened up at

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Speaker 2: Lyle Mac, which is back in August September. As soon

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Speaker 2: as that happened, we started to see patient and flow

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Speaker 2: and prove and ramping at the Lyl McEwan Hospel in

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Speaker 2: particular has really reduced. So building more beds, building recruiting

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Speaker 2: a lot more nurses and doctors, just you know, just

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Speaker 2: making the capacity of the system bigger is yielding some

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Speaker 2: results and you know, we're happy to see that. But

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Speaker 2: like I said, a long way to ago.

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Speaker 1: All right, Premier, really appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Cheers made Premier Peter melanowskis on the issues there the

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Speaker 1: electoral donation ban, particularly which legislation before State Parliament at

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Speaker 1: the moment, and the government examining a point raised by

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Speaker 1: Frank Pangelo, who was on the line right now. Frank,

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Speaker 1: good morning, very good morning.

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Speaker 3: MAT's a good morning for your listeners.

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Speaker 1: So you'd be forced under the legislation as it was

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Speaker 1: introduced to repay the state government money. Takes payer money

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Speaker 1: if you lose an election. That's the way it stands now,

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Speaker 1: and you've got a problem with that obviously, well.

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Speaker 3: Who wouldn't have a problem with that? And look, I

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Speaker 3: have to say, I'm very supportive that the Premier is

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Speaker 3: intent and I think he's quite genuine to clean up

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Speaker 3: elections by taking out money and the nations. But if

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Speaker 3: this clause gets through or got through, he might be

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Speaker 3: taking out more than that, and quite simply just to

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Speaker 3: put it in context, because he didn't. It was really

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Speaker 3: a sting in the tail that only got noticed last night.

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Speaker 3: Now he can say that it's the House of Review

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Speaker 3: and this is what you're supposed to do. I've been

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Speaker 3: working on this legislation for months now, why did they

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Speaker 3: leave it in there? Surely somebody would have picked it out.

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Speaker 3: So this is how it would work, for example, for me,

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Speaker 3: while I can still get some tiny amounts in donations

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Speaker 3: that's capped, but I would get one hundred and twenty

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Speaker 3: thousand dollars to spend from taxpayers. Now here's where it

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Speaker 3: gets tricky, the sting in the tail, which is outrageous

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Speaker 3: and was in my view and I think of others

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Speaker 3: in the Legislative Council last night, quite undemocratic. When I

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Speaker 3: asked the Attorney General whether a candidate like me an

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Speaker 3: I'm a sitting member would have to repay their funding allocation.

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Speaker 3: If you didn't get two percent of the vote in

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Speaker 3: the upper House or four percent in the lower house,

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Speaker 3: would you have to repay that funding? And the answer

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Speaker 3: came back yes, you know. It knocked everybody off their feet.

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Speaker 3: It took everybody by surprise. Now, how is that fair, Matthew?

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Speaker 3: You can't raise donations privately under the legislation, but if

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Speaker 3: the government provides it, it's like a loan. You have

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Speaker 3: to pay it back. And that's not how it should work.

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Speaker 3: I'd be saddled with a big debt, a smaller party

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Speaker 3: would have an even bigger one if you couldn't meet

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Speaker 3: the threshold, and it will send them broke. Now, why

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Speaker 3: would I want to run the risk of that? And

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Speaker 3: it seems this type of democracy comes at a great

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Speaker 3: cost of them. You knows in politics?

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Speaker 1: Is it better though, for taxpayers to fund campaigns or

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Speaker 1: for political candidates to go out and raise money? That

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Speaker 1: seems to me to be the key question. What it boiled.

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Speaker 3: It's all about openness and transparency, right, and I agree

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Speaker 3: with the Premier in that regard. But when you're going

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Speaker 3: to put up complex legislation like this, it has to

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Speaker 3: be workable and fair. Now, just this little aspect was

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Speaker 3: totally unfair. Now what would that do? It would probably

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Speaker 3: dissuade people from throwing their hat in the ring for

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Speaker 3: a cause that they genuinely believe in. Now, you know

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Speaker 3: Nick Xenophon, he got elected on two percent of the vote.

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Speaker 3: You know that way back when or whatever. You had

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Speaker 3: others that were able to get through on small amounts.

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Speaker 3: But if you don't meet their threshold, they wanted you

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Speaker 3: to pay the money back and that'll send people. Bro,

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Speaker 3: what's the point of that you can't raise the money?

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Speaker 1: Well, it's unfair you can't raise it and don't have

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Speaker 1: to pay it back. But you know, should should the

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Speaker 1: system be changed? I suppose is what I'm asking Because

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Speaker 1: if if you can go out and get people to

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Speaker 1: support you and back you in, whether it's spinning the

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Speaker 1: snags at Bunnings or whatever you've got to do, well,

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Speaker 1: isn't that a better way?

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Speaker 3: Well? Look, they are changing it today, right, So, after

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Speaker 3: so much touring and throwing and discussion, last night, the

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Speaker 3: Attorney General came back and said to me that, look,

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Speaker 3: we will take out that troublesome clause and we'll get

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Speaker 3: on with it. But we only scratched the surface of

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Speaker 3: it last night. Matthew right, we were in just you know,

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Speaker 3: the schedule one of the acts, so that's where all

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Speaker 3: the MPs start throwing questions and there was a lot

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Speaker 3: of questions that the Government was scrambling to answer.

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Speaker 2: Here.

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Speaker 3: Now, what we don't want in Australia, particularly South Australia,

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Speaker 3: is a situation where there's a potential for American style

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Speaker 3: politics where you only have the large parties. And if

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Speaker 3: it stood like it did last night and now it's

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Speaker 3: going to be changed, you'd be left with later the

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Speaker 3: Liberals and the Greens as the three major parties would

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Speaker 3: be your choice because others would be reluctant to throw

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Speaker 3: their hat in the ring. Now, that was undemocratic in

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Speaker 3: my view. And look, I'm glad that the Premier, consultation

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Speaker 3: with the Attorney General and the mover of the bill

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Speaker 3: in the House of Assembly will be Dan Greagan, have

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Speaker 3: agreed to take that out. But I just hope there

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Speaker 3: aren't any other surprises in there now. I was talking

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Speaker 3: to a labor kingpin the other day who was telling

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Speaker 3: me that he wasn't supportive of this legislation. He thought

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Speaker 3: it was too problematic and would probably.

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Speaker 1: End up in the High Court the premiere, as you

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Speaker 1: heard him say, it's they've taken Crown advice on this

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Speaker 1: to avoid that happening.

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Speaker 3: Well, so what they've taken crown advice before and it's

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Speaker 3: gone to the High Court and lost, and there've been precedents,

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Speaker 3: so anyway, they've allocated money for that. But look, that's

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Speaker 3: something that they're going to have to deal with. It's

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Speaker 3: all about openness, having transparency in election campaigns, but it

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Speaker 3: also needs to be fair, not just for the you know,

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Speaker 3: I he was going on about, Oh look it's you know,

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Speaker 3: it affected his own party is going to if they does. No,

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Speaker 3: it ain't right. He knows what they're going to get.

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Speaker 3: I saw the figures they were shown to me. You

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Speaker 3: know they'll get around four million. The Liberals get close

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Speaker 3: to the same for that to fight their campaign. They then,

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Speaker 3: you know, I believe there's going to be a limit

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Speaker 3: on third parties, the unions throwing some money in. Now

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Speaker 3: there's going to be a cap and that's thanks to

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Speaker 3: the work of Rob Simms and the Greens who's trying

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Speaker 3: to make it a little bit fair and he helped

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Speaker 3: them weak it because he promised them the two votes

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Speaker 3: they needed to get it through. But Labor and the

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Speaker 3: Liberals are going to be the great beneficiaries out of

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Speaker 3: this because they don't have to go out fundraising and

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Speaker 3: doing all this sorts of work. And you know, the

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Speaker 3: Premier says, oh, yeah, we don't want to spend all

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Speaker 3: this time going out there raising money and whatever. Well,

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Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago, what did they do. You know,

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Speaker 3: they had a fundraiser where people I think they paid

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Speaker 3: five hundred bucks ahead to go and meet members of

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Speaker 3: the cabinet.

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Speaker 1: Will that still legal? Will that be allowed?

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Speaker 3: No? Okay, well no you're not going to be paid.

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Speaker 2: But there you go.

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Speaker 3: You had people paying for access to government ministers. Now,

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Speaker 3: why would you do that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean here you go, you got this legislation

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Speaker 3: going and there you go, you know, you go.

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Speaker 1: Your fundraising un till the last minute.

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Speaker 3: That's what you're saying, Well, well but you are. But

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Speaker 3: also it flies in the face of what you're trying

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Speaker 3: to do here, isn't it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah it is.

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Speaker 3: But anyway, look, it is what it is, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I hope it doesn't turn out to be a dog's

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Speaker 3: breakfast because it has been rushed through and it's very complex.

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Speaker 3: It's very complex. I'm still trying to get my head

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Speaker 3: around at Matthew and I only saw the finished product

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Speaker 3: on Monday and still haven't had time to absorb it.

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Speaker 3: And I think a lot of other members are trying

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Speaker 3: to get their head around it. I know the media

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Speaker 3: haven't been able to get their head around it yet

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Speaker 3: and how it's going to work, and all the public,

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Speaker 3: because the public have got no idea how this thing's

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Speaker 3: going to work in the federal sounds good.

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Speaker 1: In the federal system, you get X number of votes

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Speaker 1: taxpayers full count, you know, a dollar sixty seven, whatever

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Speaker 1: the amount is. What happens here, it happens here. Will

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Speaker 1: that continue under this model?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 3: Not because no, it won't continue because you know this

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Speaker 3: is what you're going to get. That's it now. I

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Speaker 3: believe that the federal government apparently drafting a bill which

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Speaker 3: is about to be introduced about capping the they're taking

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Speaker 3: a totally different path and they think it's a more

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Speaker 3: workable path than the one that we're taking here. Now.

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Speaker 3: It's new legislation. Apparently, it's one of the few places

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Speaker 3: in the world that is trying this. I hope it happens.

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Speaker 3: I hope it does clean things up, but I hope

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Speaker 3: what it doesn't do is stop the democratic right of

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Speaker 3: individuals and smaller parties who have a cause from being

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Speaker 3: able to contest elections simply because they don't want to

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Speaker 3: be saddled with debt.

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Speaker 1: All right, Frank Pangalo will have to leave it. They

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Speaker 1: appreciate your time.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Matthew.

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Speaker 1: Thank you on the electoral donation ban legislation.