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Speaker 1: I get to him, I hope you're bloody terrific. No,

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Speaker 1: this is not the show. It sounds like it's the

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Speaker 1: start to the show, but it's not. It's an AD

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Speaker 1: so quick run, but it's an AD for me, So

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Speaker 1: maybe stay. I'm doing a ten week mentoring program. Some

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Speaker 1: of you know that I do those. I've done a

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Speaker 1: couple in the last few months, and he says humbly,

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Speaker 1: they've been fucking amazing, really good feedback. Lots of breakthroughs, breakdowns, wow,

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Speaker 1: not too many breakdowns, few revelations, but it's not in

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Speaker 1: tears and laughed, a bit of joy, a bit of

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Speaker 1: transformation and inspiration and education and all of that shit.

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Speaker 1: And clearly, if anyone's got all the answers to all

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Speaker 1: the big questions in life's greatest mysteries, it's jumbo. It's

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Speaker 1: fatty harp. So you should definitely come. No, not really,

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Speaker 1: but I have spent a lifetime swimming in the deep

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Speaker 1: end of the human experience and talking to people for

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Speaker 1: a very long time about their stuff psychology and physiology

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Speaker 1: and emotion and career and all that stuff that kind

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Speaker 1: of comprises our life and how we can think better,

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Speaker 1: do better, create better, and be better. So that's what

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Speaker 1: it's really about. It's ten weeks, it's online, it's on zoom,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, it's you and me in a zoom room,

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Speaker 1: as the kids call it. And you can watch it

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Speaker 1: in real time, you can interact in real time. You

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Speaker 1: can watch it on delay, or you can do both.

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Speaker 1: Some people come every Monday night, which it is, and

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Speaker 1: they sit in there and take notes, and then they

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Speaker 1: come back through the week and take some more notes.

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Speaker 1: That's what some people do. So we're talking about brains

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Speaker 1: and bodies and beliefs and bullshit and why and how

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Speaker 1: we keep getting in our own way. And we're going

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Speaker 1: to unpack fear and self doubt and communication and motivation

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Speaker 1: and purpose and money and meaning and mental health and

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Speaker 1: a lot of that shit that we don't deal with

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Speaker 1: until it punches us in the gob. So it's structured.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of structured in that we have a different

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Speaker 1: theme and a different topic each week. But as you

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Speaker 1: know me, I'm like four year old in a lolly shop.

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Speaker 1: I do veer from the intended path from time to time,

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Speaker 1: but we get there. We cover everything. It's deep and philosophical,

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Speaker 1: but not cheesy and cringey and if you're expecting you know,

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Speaker 1: firewalks and ice bars and unicorns and dream boards and

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Speaker 1: just think positive, well you'll be disappointed. But having said that,

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Speaker 1: I'll probably bring my drain catcher at least one night,

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Speaker 1: so there's that. Anyway, if you're ready to stop fucking

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Speaker 1: around or roll up your sleeves and actually do some

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Speaker 1: work in a supportive and fun and curious and probably

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Speaker 1: sweary environment, then saddle the fuck up. Kids. We start

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Speaker 1: April twenty eight. Are we there? And I hope you

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Speaker 1: are too. Head to my website which is crakharperdt net

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Speaker 1: crakharperdt net for all the deats, I'll get a team.

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Speaker 1: It's harps. Who else would it be? It's a U

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Speaker 1: project of course. How we roll here a typ central

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Speaker 1: Melissa is here, Sarah or doctor Sarah is here. I

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Speaker 1: am here and I can see through the rectangle window

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Speaker 1: over there in what looks like a black hole with

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Speaker 1: an abyss behind her looks like eternity behind. Can I

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Speaker 1: see the flames of hell in the distance? What can

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Speaker 1: I just ask? Because our guest pointed out the same

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Speaker 1: thing normally behind you is a YOU project kind of

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Speaker 1: banner Why are you in at it? What looks like? Hell?

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Speaker 1: Why are you there?

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Speaker 2: I just clicked on it before I jumped in. But

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Speaker 2: you're right, I didn't quite realize that it does look

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Speaker 2: like I'm in some form of black hole.

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Speaker 3: But have you seen stranger things?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 3: I haven't.

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Speaker 2: But do I look like I'm off stranger things?

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Speaker 3: Like you're right out stranger things. It's a little unnerving.

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Speaker 1: You look like you're in the upside down. You're not

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Speaker 1: even here yet, Sarah. Just steady on, You're not here yet.

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Speaker 1: Go on.

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Speaker 3: I'm housitting at the moment.

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Speaker 2: And I just clicked on it before I jumped in

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Speaker 2: that I might just blew out the background. But yes,

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Speaker 2: apparently I look quite strange.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks you actually look a little bit scary

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Speaker 1: because the entire thing is just blacknessed with your little,

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Speaker 1: very very very white and perfect complexion like the little

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Speaker 1: beacon of light.

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Speaker 2: I've just come back as a ghost.

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Speaker 3: That's me. I'm a ghost now, I reckon.

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Speaker 1: Sarah gives you a run for your money in terms

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Speaker 1: of the high quality skin. Hi, Sarah officially welcome.

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Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, thank you so much, and thanks for

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Speaker 3: the skin compliment. I appreciate that the camera's actually quite

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Speaker 3: far away. If he's owned in, you'd see the black bags.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what if everyone could see you two

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Speaker 1: and me, I look like a fucking old leather boot

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Speaker 1: wearing glasses. It's it's sad really, But anyway, here we are.

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Speaker 3: I mean you could say anything, Why would you? Why

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Speaker 3: would you say that? You could say that Mel gibson

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Speaker 3: skin's perfect.

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Speaker 1: Mel Gibson's seventeen. I think he's worse than me, so right, okay, ye, yes,

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Speaker 1: maybe go. Do you know who's who's got the same

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Speaker 1: birthday as meat? Brad Pitt? So let's pick Brad.

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Speaker 3: Nice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I don't know. Imagine being

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Speaker 1: that good looking? What's it like you too? What's it

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Speaker 1: like being that good looking? You too? Oh? It's hard

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Speaker 1: to an anchor. You have to wear around your chair,

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Speaker 1: your neck?

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Speaker 3: That's right? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Hey, where do we find you? Sarah? Where are you?

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Speaker 1: What country? What area?

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Speaker 3: I'm just south of London and that's where you find me.

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Speaker 3: Got a website to perfect, Sarah Woodhouse dot com. If

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Speaker 3: anyone I'm.

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Speaker 1: Going to Sarah Woodhouse dot com. Here we go. Sarah

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Speaker 1: is a trauma expert research psychologist Straight Up Smarty Pants

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Speaker 1: author Coach says that in her bios, straight Up Smarty Pants,

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Speaker 1: which is rude coaching, creator of the freedom process, dedicated

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Speaker 1: to empowering you to break free from trauma and create

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Speaker 1: the life you want. There's much more, but will find

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Speaker 1: out that much more as we speak. Why the interest

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Speaker 1: in trauma, Sarah? Were you traumatized?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, although one of the main things you learn in

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Speaker 3: the book is that most of us are, or at

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Speaker 3: least we've all had the traumatic reaction. But yeah, for me.

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Speaker 3: Before I trained in psychology, I worked as a lobbyist.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was it was really fun actually, because

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Speaker 3: I was working for a music industry body, which was

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Speaker 3: it was way too cool for me. And I'm not

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Speaker 3: a cool person. Anyone knows me knows I'm a total

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Speaker 3: geek and tell terrible jokes. So I had to leave

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Speaker 3: that industry due to lack of coolness. They didn't tell

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Speaker 3: me to leave I should anyway.

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Speaker 1: Is there a psychometric test for that? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Basically it's how much you sweat out of your face

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Speaker 3: when you're around famous people. For me, a lot, a lot.

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Speaker 3: That's that's what I learned in that job. As I

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Speaker 3: was at the Britain Wards. I was like, oh, no,

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Speaker 3: I can't do I can't talk to anyone. I'm stumbling

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Speaker 3: over my words, I'm sweating out my face, I dropping things.

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Speaker 3: I just couldn't. I couldn't sustain myself and be myself

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Speaker 3: around that level of coolness. So there is definitely a scale.

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Speaker 3: But my last project for them was working with a

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Speaker 3: fantastic charity called Reprieve, and they basically repatriate people from

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Speaker 3: essentially secret prisons, so they were really key in helping

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Speaker 3: us all understand what was going on at Guantanamo. So

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Speaker 3: I was working with them because what they realized is

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Speaker 3: that music was being used as a form of torture.

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Speaker 3: So obviously they called on us to kind of have

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Speaker 3: conversations about that and support their campaign, which we did.

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Speaker 3: As a result of that, I met a lot of

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Speaker 3: the guys being brought back. I met a lot of

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Speaker 3: clinical psychologists who were specializing in trauma, and at the

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Speaker 3: same time, in my personal life, my own therapist said

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Speaker 3: to me, look, a lot of what you're bringing to

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Speaker 3: me leads me to think that you have trauma. And

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Speaker 3: so I was completely taken with this because the guys

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Speaker 3: that were coming back for severely traumatized. You know, it

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Speaker 3: was high, high levels of PTSD, you know, flashbacks, essentially

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Speaker 3: difficulty functioning, and there was me able to function. You know,

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Speaker 3: I was anxious. I was highly anxious. I was having

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Speaker 3: panic attacks, had history of eating disorders, so that was

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Speaker 3: me and I just didn't understand how it can be

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Speaker 3: the same thing. And I got completely taken with that question, really,

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Speaker 3: and I approached the UNI of Sussex and just kind

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Speaker 3: of set off on this. I mean, it's been nearly

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Speaker 3: well fifteen twenty years of trying to figure out what

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Speaker 3: trauma is because it is the most curious of constructs.

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Speaker 3: It's the most odd thing because it is both of

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Speaker 3: those things. We both had trauma, and that's odd, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: So were you traumatized by listening to their stories of trauma?

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Speaker 3: I wasn't. But that is a real thing. Vicarious traumatization

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Speaker 3: is a real thing. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: We had a guest on who, well, listen, do you remember? Sorry, Jodie,

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Speaker 1: You probably don't because I think I did it with Tiff.

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Speaker 1: But it's that lady tip of my tongue. If she's

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Speaker 1: listening to this, because she listens, I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 2: You also did an episode with doctor Ingrid on that

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: For me. Yeah, but this lady is from Edith Cown University.

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Speaker 1: She's a professor and she interviewed all these people from

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven survivors and then she got PTSD from speaking.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a real thing, Sarah.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's a real thing. It's it's it's huge, you

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Speaker 3: know within the emergency services. You know, is a great

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Speaker 3: example that the trauma isn't happening to them of course,

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Speaker 3: that they're witnessing it. So it's a very real thing

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Speaker 3: and it's something that you know, all psychologists, therapists, practitioners

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Speaker 3: have to be aware of. And that's especially true if

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Speaker 3: they've got a trauma history, because we're more likely to

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Speaker 3: have a traumatic reaction as adults if there's something there

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Speaker 3: in the past that's kind of set us up for

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Speaker 3: it in terms of our nervous system.

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Speaker 1: What's the relationship Sarah, between if I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: a bloody messy question, but trauma, stress, anxiety, you know,

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Speaker 1: are they all in the same family, are they or

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Speaker 1: they just different levels of the same thing or different

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Speaker 1: expressions of the same thing.

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Speaker 3: I would say yes, I would say they are. I mean,

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Speaker 3: they're almost different points on the on the journey, but

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Speaker 3: they're certainly all linked. You know, stress, that's an interesting one,

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Speaker 3: isn't it, Because stress can you know, if you live

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Speaker 3: within heightened stress for a long period of time, that

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Speaker 3: can be enough to push you into a traumatic reaction.

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Speaker 3: And of course then part of a traumatic reaction is

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Speaker 3: anxiety like symptoms. That's primarily what we'd see, because that's

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Speaker 3: indicative of the fight flight response, yes, which is that

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Speaker 3: you know, going up in sympathetic activation before you might

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Speaker 3: then drop into freeze, which is kind of you know

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Speaker 3: that that's real shut down. But yeah, yeah, that's interesting.

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Speaker 3: I mean they're not the same thing, but they're very

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Speaker 3: closely interlinked.

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Speaker 1: Is is. Obviously, trauma is on like most things, when

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a physiological, emotional, and or psychological state,

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Speaker 1: there's a scale. You know, there are levels like there

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Speaker 1: are levels of fitness, there are levels of you know,

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Speaker 1: every trauma and levels of I guess happiness and whatever

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Speaker 1: the state is is people's trauma response is does the

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Speaker 1: trauma come? Obviously, there's the stimulus, there's the thing that happens,

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Speaker 1: and then there's the there's the reaction and so I

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Speaker 1: guess the level of trauma experienced by the person is

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Speaker 1: dependent on their interpretation and their physiological response. So sorry,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking as I'm asking the question. It's fucking terrible.

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Speaker 1: I apologize everyone, but I'm thinking that trauma is not

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Speaker 1: a standard response. It's an individual response to what might

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Speaker 1: be the same stimulus.

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Speaker 3: Yet oh totally yeah, that's what makes it so fascinating.

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Speaker 3: Two people can experience near identical events and have completely

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Speaker 3: different reactions, and.

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Speaker 1: One might experience absolutely no trauma and the other one experiences.

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Speaker 3: All the trauma, experiences all the trauma. Then within that,

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Speaker 3: within the you know that it's not just trauma or nothing.

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Speaker 3: It's a sliding scale, you know. My hope actually is

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Speaker 3: that eventually we begin to realize that trauma isn't you know,

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Speaker 3: the medical or the medical the psychological psychiatric of necessarily

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Speaker 3: obsessed with determining as and when you reach a certain category. Yes,

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Speaker 3: does that make sense? It's like, okay, you're there, you

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Speaker 3: have OCD, but or whatever it might be PTSD generalized

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Speaker 3: anxiety disorder. But I think then because we tend to

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Speaker 3: view I think the effect of that is that we

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Speaker 3: lose sense of the spectrum and the fact that actually

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Speaker 3: we're all on there somewhere just because you've reached the

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Speaker 3: level at which they then diagnose. You know, it's an

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Speaker 3: extreme example, but say the level for PTSD you've got

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Speaker 3: to reach is ninety out of one hundred and twenty.

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Speaker 3: What about the people that get eighty? They don't have PTSD?

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Speaker 3: What have they got? You know, they've got express They've

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Speaker 3: still got trauma. But you can say the same of

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Speaker 3: any construct in psychology. It's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is that you might an incredibly valid point.

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Speaker 1: All right, so I want you I don't want the

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Speaker 1: academic definition. I want the Sarah definition of trauma. No pressure,

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Speaker 1: no pressure, doctor Woodhouse.

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Speaker 3: Drum wrong, the Sarah definition. If I was explaining it

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Speaker 3: to her mate, I'd say.

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Speaker 1: If you're just talking to someone who's never heard of

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Speaker 1: the term, and they're not an academic researcher, I would.

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Speaker 3: First explain that things have got a bit confused because

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Speaker 3: people use the term to describe the event, and that's

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Speaker 3: why I think we've all got a bit confused. So

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Speaker 3: first i'd point that out, is that the term trauma

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Speaker 3: doesn't actually it's not the thing that's the trauma that's

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Speaker 3: the event, the experience, the trauma is the reaction. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: they're interchangeable words, you know. It's you could say trauma,

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Speaker 3: you could say really difficult reaction. But it's essentially a

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Speaker 3: reaction to an experience that made you feel And I

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Speaker 3: do think it's really useful to think about the three

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Speaker 3: aspects of it that have to pull together because you

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Speaker 3: need to feel threatened or afraid, right, Yes. And a

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Speaker 3: really interesting thing to note there is that what we're

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Speaker 3: learning is especially we're all so interested in CPTSD now,

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Speaker 3: which is kind of it's complex PTSD the type of

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Speaker 3: trauma you get from it's essentially relational or all these

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Speaker 3: kind of long living within these difficult environments, home environments

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Speaker 3: often for a long period of time, and so we're

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Speaker 3: very interested now in that kind of relational side of it.

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Speaker 3: And what we can see is that even shame can trigger.

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Speaker 3: So it's not just fear, is what I'm saying. It's

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Speaker 3: something that makes you feel really ashamed. Your body reacts

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Speaker 3: to it as if it's a threat because we so

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Speaker 3: need those social connections. Does that make sense? So basically

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Speaker 3: it's it's it's an experience that makes you feel threatened,

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Speaker 3: but that's not just about fear. And I think that's

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Speaker 3: also where people can get quite confused, because threats to

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Speaker 3: a human are just about threats to life. So that's so,

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Speaker 3: that's so that's one key point. So as well as

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Speaker 3: feeling afraid, it's feeling overwhelmed and out of control. And

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Speaker 3: it's when those three come together that that's when you

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Speaker 3: see these prolonged traumatic reactions. So that's essentially what it is.

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Speaker 3: It's it's in the moment, in the absolute moment, trauma

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Speaker 3: is feeling threatened, overwhelmed, and out of control. That is,

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Speaker 3: that is what it is in the moment as it's

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Speaker 3: happening because and I and I use those terms because

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Speaker 3: they're really human. We all know how it feels to

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Speaker 3: feel really overwhelmed. We just all know that, and we

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Speaker 3: know how it feels to feel out of control. But

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Speaker 3: what's happening underneath is that those terms are explaining quite

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Speaker 3: complicated things going on in your nervous system and that

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Speaker 3: fight flight freeze response that's happening, but they are our

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Speaker 3: felt experience of it. So there's no point saying, okay,

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Speaker 3: well the dorsal they you know, the veil nerve does this,

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Speaker 3: and if Okay, well happen. How do I know? Will

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Speaker 3: you know if you're feeling overwhelmed, threatened and out of control?

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Speaker 1: So interesting because I'm thinking, like, you know, when we

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Speaker 1: say all that or that's a traumatic event, but in

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Speaker 1: the middle of that traumatic event, there's three people who

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Speaker 1: aren't traumatized.

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Speaker 3: Oh totally. And of the people that are traumatized, you've

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Speaker 3: got some that will go on to have you know,

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Speaker 3: extreme levels of PTSD. You've got others that will have

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Speaker 3: a fairly minor reaction that will resolve, you know, even

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Speaker 3: if it's within six months. Then they'll do the processing

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Speaker 3: necessary to move out of it. Yes, And you've got

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Speaker 3: people who experience post traumatic growth, so they'll have a

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Speaker 3: traumatic reaction and then not only do they not have

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Speaker 3: PTSD ten years later, they're awesome nearly swore then because

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Speaker 3: you led the way on that they don't.

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Speaker 1: You did so fuck an awesome serious because.

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Speaker 3: It nearly said that is so that's so fascinating, isn't it. Yes,

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Speaker 3: that you can actually you know, we hear a lot

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Speaker 3: about that now, don't we that, Like from trauma to

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Speaker 3: thriving it's a real thing. Post traumatic gross gross all

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Speaker 3: so good, such a good growth is a real thing.

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Speaker 3: You know, we know that adversity can not always but

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Speaker 3: can make us stronger. And you can you can see

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Speaker 3: a real reaction to that concept within the trauma community,

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Speaker 3: people who are dealing with trauma, because it can feel

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Speaker 3: very confronting when you say that, because it can feel

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Speaker 3: so wildly different to what they're experiencing. So it's such

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Speaker 3: a confusing construct thing. Yes, it is a very tricky constructs.

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Speaker 1: Go fucking slippery, that little geezer, It's really slippy.

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Speaker 3: And the thing I find interesting is that I first

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Speaker 3: started doing, you know, publicly explaining what trauma is, maybe

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Speaker 3: five years ago, and I find it harder today than

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Speaker 3: I did then because I know more about it. And

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Speaker 3: then I've spoken to four hundred people with it, and

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Speaker 3: now I've spoken to, however, many thousand. It is a

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Speaker 3: confusing thing and an evolving thing. And actually the worst

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Speaker 3: thing about human beings is our need to say we

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Speaker 3: are right and we know everything right and within this

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Speaker 3: within this field. If you hear someone do that, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: hang on a minute, that can't be true. We don't know.

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Speaker 3: All we can do is observe and be open minded

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Speaker 3: and responsive and curious you know, curiosity has to lead

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Speaker 3: the way with this and listening to people that have

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Speaker 3: lived experience of it.

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Speaker 1: I'm with you. Or firstly, you're absolutely right. It's like

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Speaker 1: the more you study, the more you research, the more

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Speaker 1: you dive in, especially in the pych space. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh my god. You know, my research is

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Speaker 1: on self awareness, and self awareness is an ocean of

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Speaker 1: different things, you know, like I thought it was a glass,

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Speaker 1: it's an ocean. Like there's not even a consensus on

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Speaker 1: what it is right for a start, And the more

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Speaker 1: rabbit holes you go down, and the more papers you read,

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Speaker 1: and the more research you expose yourself to, and the

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Speaker 1: more conversations you have, which is okay, the more you

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Speaker 1: realize you don't know, and the more you realize the

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Speaker 1: experts don't know. They've got ideas and theories, but there's

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Speaker 1: very little, especially in the sych space, there's very little

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Speaker 1: that's concrete, you know.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's why. Sorry to interrupt, but I

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Speaker 3: think that's why my main one of my main goals

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Speaker 3: is to not say I'm I'm the queen of trauma

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Speaker 3: and I understand it completely and you should all listen

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Speaker 3: to me, but figure out ways to commute, just to

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Speaker 3: commute to talk about it, Yes, because I think I

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Speaker 3: would say to you you don't need to completely understand

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Speaker 3: self awareness and be the and be the dawn of it.

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Speaker 3: What you need to learn to do is communicate about it.

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Speaker 3: Because that's the tricky thing is taking these bizarre, you know,

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Speaker 3: mind body things that are going on and bringing them

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Speaker 3: into public consciousness and talking about them in a really clear,

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Speaker 3: accessible light way. And I think academia is not good.

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Speaker 1: At that that you are very good at. I'm not

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Speaker 1: pissing in your pocket. That's an Australian term. Do you

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Speaker 1: use that in Britain? Pissing in your pocket?

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Speaker 3: It's excellent. I'm going to commit now to you.

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Speaker 1: Pissing in your pocket means, like, you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: falsely praising you. I'm not, I'm not pissing in your pocket.

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Speaker 1: But no, you're good at.

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Speaker 3: That's Why would you piss in someone's pocket that you need?

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Speaker 1: Well, clearly you're not in Australia. You don't understand the

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Speaker 1: warmth to piss in the pocket. I don't know. Stop

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Speaker 1: making me think about stupid fucking Australian expressions. I bet

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Speaker 1: you've never been on a podcast like this Week swear

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Speaker 1: worn out every three minutes. But yeah, I think that

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Speaker 1: that ability to be able, Like I don't think I'm

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Speaker 1: great at many things, but I'm okay at and you're

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Speaker 1: very good at sharing what can be pretty complicated ideas

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Speaker 1: and concepts and constructs in a way which is listenable

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Speaker 1: and use a friendly and understandable because so much of

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Speaker 1: you know, science is pretty complicated. I mean, even even

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Speaker 1: trying to read academic papers is just so unenjoyable. It's

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Speaker 1: like we're not right the same thing, just in a

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Speaker 1: way that's one understandable and two not so fuck and boring.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my PhD basically involved me submitting multiple drafts and

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Speaker 3: my supervisor, who's an incredible guy, Professor Brown, taking out

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Speaker 3: all the adjectives. And I was just like, I can't

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Speaker 3: exist in this space. And here I was just like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm a natural writer. I love it. I

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Speaker 3: love using flowery language to communicate. I love that moment

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Speaker 3: of connection that you get through language. It's not about

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Speaker 3: that we.

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Speaker 1: Don't want we don't want any sense of you in

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Speaker 1: this writing s. You need to remove all the unice, right,

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Speaker 1: we don't want this cannot be engaging at all, So

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Speaker 1: not at all.

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Speaker 3: At the moment, there's a whiff of it, they rip

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Speaker 3: it all out. Yeah, that's why I left academia. Actually, yeah,

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Speaker 3: not allowed to swear in academic papers, are you?

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Speaker 1: What's up?

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Speaker 3: You're not allowed to swear in academic papers. That's you,

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Speaker 3: even if you were to reference it correctly, that's right.

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Speaker 1: But I could reference this book, which was one of

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Speaker 1: my first books.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, you really went for it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a work I just held to stop

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Speaker 1: tucking around everyone. That was. That was just a fun

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Speaker 1: working title for the book that I was writing, which

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Speaker 1: was a small book. I've written a few. I've written seven,

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Speaker 1: i think, but that was just a small and that

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Speaker 1: was a working, fun title, and a bunch of my

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Speaker 1: friends said you should actually call it that, and that was.

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Speaker 1: That was almost the forerunner to all the fuck books.

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Speaker 3: So words, so that my book You're Not Broken and

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Speaker 3: had considerably more swear words in it, and Penguin were

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Speaker 3: like wrong audience, which you've misunderstood. If you swear about

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Speaker 3: draw it makes it much less scary.

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Speaker 1: You and I have a similar this is very boring

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Speaker 1: for the listeners. But so that book, this book that

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Speaker 1: I'm showing him holding up, stop fucking around. Was followed

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Speaker 1: by this book, which was published by Penguin, Well, pull

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Speaker 1: your finger out, which is a shit title, right, So

431
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 1: that was published by Penguin, and I said to Penguin,

432
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: I don't want to call it that. It's a shit title.

433
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: And they went, oh, we've done all the research and

434
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: the group testing and the blah blah blah, and the

435
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 1: fuck book outsold the Penguin book about six to one,

436
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: and the Penguin book is a better book with a

437
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 1: shit title. And I said, for them, it won't work.

438
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 1: They're like, you're the author, you just write stuff. This

439
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: is what we do. We market, we sell, you know,

440
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 1: just trust us. Anyway, I feel like I've thrown Penguin

441
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 1: under the bus a few times. I'm sorry Penguin. I

442
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 1: do appreciate you that you took me under your wing.

443
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 3: But well they're amazing and they're keeping us on the street.

444
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 3: And narrah, imagine the world without people telling us not

445
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 3: to swear. I swear just a bit less, Just a

446
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 3: bit less, guys, Just.

447
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,360
Speaker 1: You should a reprint of not You're not broken, by

448
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: the way, everyone have a look at that. You're not broken.

449
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: You should call it you're not fucking broken, geezer.

450
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 2: That's too good.

451
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: You should do that.

452
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 3: You should do that.

453
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: You're not fucking broken, geezer, you're just having a bad day.

454
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: In you an anniversary edition, I'll write a forward. Enjoy this,

455
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 1: you fuckers. Oh that's hilarious. So is there a relationship

456
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: between Like you said, jumping back into something kind of serious,

457
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: but you spoke about having and eating disorder when you

458
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 1: were younger, and did that arise out of any form

459
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: of trauma? Is there any relationship with that and you

460
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: know some of some of your struggles later. Yeah.

461
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 3: Absolutely. I was molested when I was a kid, which

462
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 3: most bizarre thing about saying that is I had always known,

463
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 3: and probably the most interesting and useful thing to say

464
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 3: about that is that I was always aware, but somehow

465
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 3: I wasn't. It was like this bizarre memory where I knew,

466
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 3: but consciously I would just push it away all the time.

467
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 3: And I think the fact that I think, the fact

468
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 3: that I have that experience, and I really have that

469
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 3: lived experience of that cognitive avoidance, helps me be the

470
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 3: practitioner that I am, because that is bizarre. I mean,

471
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 3: the mind is bizarre, so so incredible, so interesting. So yes,

472
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 3: But as I say, what you find is that there's

473
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 3: usually a trauma before. Okay, so that was potentially you know,

474
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 3: we don't know, and there's genetics as relevant, you know,

475
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 3: inherited trauma and all of that kind of stuff. But

476
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 3: say that was the first one, then it really sets

477
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 3: you up for the next. So you know then in

478
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 3: life that that there were more So for example, I

479
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 3: was I was really bullied, physically bullied at school. And

480
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 3: that's been a really tricky one to navigate actually, interestingly

481
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 3: on picking that because I was I was within feeling trapped,

482
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 3: feeling out of control, overwhelmed and highly threatened and not

483
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 3: able to leave for how many years, four or five

484
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 3: years and deeply fearful, you know, having to run away

485
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 3: coming home with bruises, you know, some really really gnarly stuff.

486
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 3: And because it was prolonged that it's had it's had

487
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 3: a big impact. Actually. Yeah, So that's that's been a

488
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 3: really tricky one to to unpick. And I can, and

489
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 3: I can.

490
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: Still I wish I was there. I would have protected you.

491
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 3: It's awful, isn't it. Yeah, it's so awful. It's so

492
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 3: busy and who knows, I mean, you know, I'm sure

493
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 3: that those that they were kids, you know, Paul, then

494
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 3: what was going on at home to make them so

495
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 3: angry and vicious?

496
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: You know?

497
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 3: And and of course there's there's my part in it,

498
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 3: which is I was the type of kid that was

499
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 3: essentially going to let them do it.

500
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: You know.

501
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 3: I didn't have that that that grit, that pushback, that

502
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 3: that confidence to kind of say no, leave me alone.

503
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 3: So it was just years of being kicked in the head.

504
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: How are you now with all of that? Because you

505
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: seem incredibly great, like, how are you are you just

506
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: a great communicator? And but does that is this still

507
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: hard for you? This stuff?

508
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 3: No, it's it's really not. I mean I don't enjoy

509
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 3: I don't enjoy that being my truth. You know, It's

510
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 3: not like it doesn't fill me with joy saying. But

511
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 3: the thing that I have absolutely learn and I would

512
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 3: just really hope that anyone listening really gets this, is

513
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 3: that you can't heal any of this in secret. And

514
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 3: the more that you talk about it, the more that

515
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 3: you kind of stand up into it, into the memories,

516
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 3: into the truth of it, your truth, not an objective truth,

517
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 3: but just your truth. I'm aware that people listening might

518
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 3: be like, oh my gosh, she was only bullied. It

519
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 3: doesn't matter. Somebody else's objective opinions of what happened to

520
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 3: me doesn't matter. What matters is that I can stand

521
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 3: up and say this is my truth, this is what

522
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 3: I experienced, and yes it was traumatic for me.

523
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: Again, that's because trauma is completely personal, isn't it. It's

524
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: like for me to get on stage and talk to

525
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: a thousand people as exciting for a lot of people,

526
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: that's completely fucking terrifying.

527
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, It's.

528
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: All about how we respond or what that means to us.

529
00:30:55,080 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: And it's not just psychological, it's emotional, it's physiological. You know,

530
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: it's a full body experience.

531
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 3: It is a full body experience, and that's what trauma is,

532
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 3: you know. And I'm obsessed now. Before I was obsessed

533
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 3: with figuring out what trauma is, and now I am

534
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 3: completely obsessed with figuring out what we do to heal

535
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 3: it and the steps that we need to take. And

536
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 3: one thing that is very clear is that you have

537
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 3: to heal the body. You have to heal the nervous

538
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 3: system because essentially this it lives on as dysregulation, right

539
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 3: as hypervigilance. We're constantly looking out for threats, and it's

540
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 3: fascinating when you begin to get really clear about how

541
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 3: it's affecting your physiology. So, for example, people with trauma

542
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 3: have a much narrower vision because they're just they're literally

543
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 3: looking for threats a.

544
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: Vision, literal vision as in physical literally Wow, their peripheral

545
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: vision is not as good their periphery.

546
00:31:55,080 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 3: They when they are in hypervigilant modes, they they tunnel vision.

547
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 3: It is complete tunnel vision. Yeah, So what they're doing

548
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 3: and what happens is as they do that, as they

549
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 3: begin to scan for threats, and these are often relational, right,

550
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 3: I mainly deal with relational trauma. So they say there're

551
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 3: a I don't know, a family, a family event, something

552
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 3: like that that subconsciously they know this is a or

553
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 3: the sense that this is a place where they're not safe.

554
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 3: So then it's one example of so many physiological things

555
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 3: that are happening. Their vision will narrow because they're trying

556
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 3: to literally trying to spot the threats. But as their

557
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 3: vision narrows, then that physiological action then signals more threat

558
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 3: to the body. So you've got this awful cycle of

559
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 3: so so anyway, I'm using that as an example to say, okay,

560
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 3: so what's the solution with this, With this precise example,

561
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 3: what's the solution. The way that you signal safety to

562
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 3: your body is to leave the room and go and

563
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 3: look at the horizon, right, you know that I'm just

564
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 3: that blows my mind. But understanding that this system response

565
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 3: is affecting the way that you move, the way that

566
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 3: you walk, the way that you talk. So we need

567
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 3: to learn to selectively embody safety and that's a really

568
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 3: important part of healing, you know. And then a lot

569
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 3: does that make sense?

570
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: Yeah? I love it. I love it. And also things

571
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: like so we have a guy on here who's also

572
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: doing his PhD, a friend of mine who's got a

573
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: master's in uh excise physiology and nutrition, and he's doing

574
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: his pH d in psych and his name's Paul Taylor.

575
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: Shout out to PT. And we've spoken a bit about

576
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: post traumatic growth as well. But it but the whole

577
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: you know, like trauma to me seems like it's multi dimensional.

578
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: It's there's a psychological, emotional, and physiological component of course,

579
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 1: but you know that it's unders like I think when

580
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: we talk about trauma, a lot we think about the mind.

581
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: But also you know, the physiological consequence of this emotional

582
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: and psychological stuff is you know, like you said, is

583
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: sympathetic nervous system being switched on and you know, all

584
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: the stressful mons adrenaline and cortisol and you know, this

585
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: hypervigilance and elevated heart rate and breathing and this. You know,

586
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: you get in that on a semi regular basis, and

587
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: then you're starting to create this like inflammatory response in

588
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: the body on a cellular level. And you do that

589
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: often enough, and you're literally creating disease, Like you're creating

590
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: physical like trauma and stress and anxiety. You know, long enough,

591
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: over long enough time, often enough, literally you know, suppressed

592
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: immune system, greater risk of all of these things. I

593
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 1: don't want to be too doom and gloom, but like

594
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: nothing operates in isolation with humans. Like we kind of

595
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: treat the mind and the emotions and the body separately,

596
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 1: but it's an integrated system that needs to be treated systematically,

597
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: but as one.

598
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 3: Oh totally, And you actually can't. You can't treat trauma

599
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 3: if you view them as separate. Yes, it's not the

600
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 3: mind and the body, it's the mind body. You can't

601
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 3: that you have to pull them together into the same space, yes,

602
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 3: or you don't stand a chance. Really, And actually the

603
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 3: thing that has to come first is that the kind

604
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 3: of physiological nervous system healing. So the phrase we use,

605
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 3: which of course you would have heard, is disregulation.

606
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: Right.

607
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 3: So if you're living with trauma, prolonged stress whatever it is,

608
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 3: or heightened anxiety even you know there's those three links

609
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 3: together again, you have a disregulated nervous system. It's not

610
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 3: operating in the way that we need it to. Essentially,

611
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 3: that means that you go up into sympathetic activation really quickly,

612
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 3: so you're constantly scanning for threats, things that might be wrong,

613
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 3: whether that's in the relationship space, whether that's at work

614
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 3: or you know, whatever that is. And of course if

615
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 3: you're scanning for threats, you're going to see more, right,

616
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 3: it's that kind of tunnel vision thing. Yes, you go

617
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 3: up into sympathetic activation and what a regulated system. It

618
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 3: still feels stress, right, So they'll go up and then

619
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 3: there's that lovely bell curve because then they'll come back down,

620
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 3: so the parasympathetic will switch on and pull you back down. Now,

621
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 3: what we know of a traumatized nervous system is that

622
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 3: that doesn't happen, So there isn't that beautiful rhythm that's necessary.

623
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 3: They go up and they stay up essentially, and once

624
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 3: they're up, once they're stressed, they're much more likely to

625
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 3: then go into a full on fight flight freeze response

626
00:36:58,200 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 3: and be really triggered.

627
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: Is treating trauma. I don't know if that's the right word,

628
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: but you know, like healing treatment blah blah blah is

629
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: like in medicine and even in exercise physiology, which is

630
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: my background, right, It's everything that we do is an

631
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 1: educated guess because not everyone needs the same medicine, not

632
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: everyone needs the same program, even if they have the

633
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: same goals, Right, you know, some people might want to

634
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 1: build overall body strength, and ten people come to me

635
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: with the same goal, I've got to prescribe ten different

636
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: programs because of their unique physiology and background and training

637
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: history and all those variables. I would think too, that

638
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: healing from trauma, recovering whatever, I would think that there's

639
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: you know, there's a multitude of I guess PANACEEA is

640
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: based on you know, where people are at and what

641
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 1: they best respond to. Because what might be healing for

642
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: someone you know, it's like for somebody like Melissa who's

643
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 1: a dog lover, lying on the floor with a fucking

644
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: labrador puppy is literally therapeutic. For somebody else, it's.

645
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 3: Trauma regulation all over that.

646
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And if somebody else lying on the floor where

647
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: the dog would be traumatic because they're scared of dogs.

648
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: So really about the individual.

649
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 3: Right, that is absolutely true. And I used to be

650
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 3: very careful in the way that I described it because

651
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 3: what I saw was that it tended to be easier

652
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,399
Speaker 3: for people to begin to process. So the first thing

653
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 3: to point out is that as we have really is

654
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 3: that trauma exists in the body, in the nervous system.

655
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 3: It exists cognitively, so in the mind and thinking patterns,

656
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 3: in overthinking, you know, all that mind stuff. Emotionally of course,

657
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 3: which is you know, felt in the body, and behaviorally,

658
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 3: so we see all these often it's compulsions, but behaviors

659
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 3: designed to help us cope with moving up into that

660
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 3: arousal aroused state, you know, dealing with that kind of

661
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 3: too much energy, and also avoiding those avoidance behaviors. Okay,

662
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 3: so we've got the whole raft of them, and it's

663
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 3: really important to see that that's what's that, that's what's

664
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 3: going on. That we've got the main you know. So

665
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 3: it's about the body, it's about the mind, it's about

666
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 3: the emotions. And I used to say, or I observed

667
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 3: that it was much easier for people to begin talking

668
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 3: about it, gentle. Processing. Processing just means moving through something

669
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 3: in a way that changes it. Because when we experience trauma,

670
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 3: we don't process what happens. Okay, So a normal memory

671
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 3: is far away in our autobiographical memory, a trauma memory.

672
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 3: In fact, that's an incorrect term. There's no such thing

673
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 3: as a trauma memory. It's just this disparate, disparate spread

674
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 3: of information. So we need to process. That's really important.

675
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 3: We need to process, to move through the information in

676
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 3: different ways. And what I noticed is that for a

677
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 3: lot of people I spoke to, it was easier to

678
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 3: talk okay, yeah, But I had another segment of people

679
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 3: I would speak to that would couldn't at all. They

680
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 3: didn't want to go there, and they had to do

681
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 3: body work for us. So they had to work with

682
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 3: somatic experiencing practitioners say and begin to process what was

683
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 3: going on in their bodies. And that was personality driven,

684
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 3: you know, all sorts of things going on in that.

685
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 3: And then also you've got people who were you know,

686
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 3: so far into an addiction. They've got to stop drinking

687
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 3: before they can do anything else. Yes, so it's really

688
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 3: dependent on where we're at. Yes, but I now confidently

689
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 3: say that every single one of those people or personality

690
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 3: types or you know, wherever they're at, the first point

691
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 3: for all of us is to learn how to regular

692
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 3: I really believe it's so keenly now that from there,

693
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 3: then yes, you might, you might want to go and

694
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 3: cognitively processed, you know, you do talking therapy, you might

695
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 3: want to go down the somatic or look at your behaviors.

696
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 3: But we can't properly do anything until we learn to regulate,

697
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 3: until we learn to feel how it feels to be

698
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 3: going stress, stress, stress, stressed, and learn gentle calming ways

699
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 3: to bring ourselves back down. Does that makes sense, because

700
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 3: because as you're doing that, you're building capacity into the system.

701
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 3: Once you can do that, and it's not that we

702
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 3: need to all do it perfectly. We're supposed to be disregulated,

703
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 3: we're supposed to be stressed. You know, these aren't terrible

704
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 3: scary words it's okay, but we do all, every single

705
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 3: one of us needs to learn how to regulate.

706
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: I think it's very liberating when you realize this and

707
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: a loving way. Oh we're all a bit fucked up,

708
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: we're all a bit traumatized, we've all got issues, we've

709
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: all been bullied or similar. You know that, because I

710
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: think when you just live with it yourself, you know

711
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: there's part of you that I guess intellectually, we know

712
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: that we're not the only one. But in that space,

713
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 1: in that kind of you know, in that moment, in

714
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: that feeling, in that experience, you feel like it's just you,

715
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: and you feel like you're the weirdest one. Like, yeah,

716
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: there are other people, but no one's as weird as me.

717
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: No one feels like I feel in this moment. But

718
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's almost our perceived weirdness is a

719
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: common bond, like we all feel. You know. I've felt

720
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: in my life often weird, like I don't belong, not

721
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: good enough, like not worthy enough, not fucking athletic enough,

722
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: not smart, all of these things, you know. And I

723
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: was in a minor way. I was bullied at school,

724
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: but not a lot. I was a fat kid, right,

725
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: but I escaped relatively unscathed. But you know, all of

726
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: that stuff that four decades ago, I can remember stuff clearly,

727
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: well it seems clear. Maybe it's distorted, but it seems

728
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: very clear to me that happened forty years ago because

729
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: it was you know, and it's like you it's only

730
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: relevant to the person. But as I look back now,

731
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 1: I think, fuck, that wasn't really a big deal. But

732
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 1: to the fat fourteen year old, it was a really

733
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: big deal, you know, and that being able to self regulate.

734
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: Do we need to Like one of the things that

735
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: I say, which is kind of cliche and it's making

736
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: me think about whether it's accurate, is we can't overcome

737
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: what we don't understand. Do we need to understand trauma.

738
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: Do we need to understand how it works to be

739
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: able to deal effectively with it? Or do we just

740
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: need tools?

741
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 3: No, we need to understand that, right, We are absolutely,

742
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 3: one hundred percent need to understand it. And I think

743
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 3: one of the ways that we do a disservice to

744
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 3: people is to provide really dumb down information because we

745
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 3: need to be clear, definitely, but we we don't need to,

746
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 3: you know, do a puppet show we're we're yes, all

747
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 3: of us need to understand. It's not it's not hard

748
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 3: to understand. There's the sympathetic branch, there's the parasympathetic branch.

749
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 3: You know, Okay, this is what's happening. It's it's liberating

750
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 3: to understand that. It gives you a sense of control,

751
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 3: and that is what we're looking for. That is the

752
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 3: an today, right, Yes, you think about that, that that

753
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 3: weird equation. I do.

754
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: So.

755
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 3: It's threat, overwhelm and feeling out of control. So of

756
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 3: course clarity it speaks to that piece. We want to

757
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 3: help people feel in control, you know, and that overwhelm

758
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 3: also has helped I would say by by that connection

759
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 3: that you've just talked about, you know, understanding that you're

760
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 3: not on your own. It's actually it's normal to be triggered,

761
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 3: it's normal to be dysregulated. Most of us have experienced

762
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 3: well all of us have experienced a traumatic event. And

763
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 3: we're humans. And I'm one thing I'm really noticing at

764
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,760
Speaker 3: the moment is I obviously speak to a lot of therapists,

765
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 3: a lot of trauma therapists, and loads of them recently

766
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 3: have started using this language around how our generation is

767
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 3: particularly traumatized because because the changes and how we talk

768
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 3: about mental health have been so vast, and looking at

769
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 3: how a family forty years ago was talking about emotions

770
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 3: and what was going on in the home and what

771
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 3: wasn't was and wasn't kind of acceptable in terms of

772
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 3: emotionally I'm talking about compared to now. And also an

773
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 3: awareness of the systems that we're living in. You know,

774
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 3: the school system, for example, promotes dysregulation. It's not great.

775
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: Yeh.

776
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 3: Kids are rarely taught to regulate. They're rarely teachers. You

777
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 3: know that their role models aren't going no, no, I

778
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,839
Speaker 3: just need a moment. I'm just going to take a break, Okay,

779
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 3: I just need to just rest. That's not going on

780
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 3: in businesses or schools all across the world. Instead, what's

781
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 3: happening is go go, go, go faster, go stronger, you know,

782
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 3: just keep going, keep going, push through it. You know,

783
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 3: in our generation, not only have we got the kind

784
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 3: of generational trauma in our systems A lot of people

785
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 3: would say, you know, from the world from World Wars.

786
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 3: You know, grandmother's, grandfather's parents. We're growing We've been growing

787
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 3: up in this really intense system that requires more and

788
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 3: more from us. Plus we were parented in a way

789
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 3: that didn't teach us to regulate. Yes, So I don't

790
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 3: mean to start depressing at all. My hope is My

791
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 3: hope is that by us conversation.

792
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: No, it's not, it's not. It's very relevant.

793
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 3: Because they weren't having these conversations ten years ago, exactly exactly.

794
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 3: So the more we talk about it, and the more

795
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 3: I say, yeah, I was I was molested, and the

796
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 3: more I say yeah, I had an eating disorder, and

797
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 3: the more we can move towards it and call it

798
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 3: what it is, the more hateful that in you know,

799
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 3: our kids and the next generation will have better tools.

800
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,399
Speaker 1: You're You're amazing. I'm not just saying that, like I'm

801
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: so sorry that what happened happened, but I'm so thankful

802
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: that you're so evolved and so articulate and so okay

803
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: that you can come on here and talk the way

804
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 1: that you talk, because you know, it's it's liberating and

805
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: it's But more importantly, I think, aspart from what you're saying,

806
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: which is really interesting and fascinating and insightful and educating,

807
00:47:56,120 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 1: I think just people listening to you, not only how

808
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: okay you are but how brilliant you are despite where

809
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: you've been and what you've seen and what you've been through.

810
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 1: Like for me, that's just as important because I find

811
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: that encouraging. I find where you are at your okayness.

812
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: You know that's I think that's a big encouragements people.

813
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: Do you are you? It's not the right word, but

814
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 1: you'll know what I'm talking about. Are you proud of

815
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: the journey that you've been on and the how functional

816
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: and how good you are despite what you've been through.

817
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really proud. I am really proud. But I

818
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 3: also need all your listeners to understand that my okayness

819
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 3: is totally fallible. Okay, I am a human. I have

820
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 3: really bad days, right, you know it's a very human okayness.

821
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 3: And do you know the main thread of my okayness

822
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 3: comes from complete self acceptance, accepting the things that happened

823
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,479
Speaker 3: and accepting my bad days, accepting that there are parts

824
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 3: of me that misspeak, accepting their parts to me that

825
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 3: are anxious. Sometimes you know, it's it's it's that's it's that.

826
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 3: I just I think self acceptance is the number of

827
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 3: it is the heart of it.

828
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 1: Really, How do you balance self acceptance. Sorry, Sarah, how

829
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 1: do you balance because I'm with you but not like

830
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 1: what happened to you is not okay. But at the

831
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 1: same time, there's got to be a level of acceptance

832
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,720
Speaker 1: because I guess you can't spend the next thirty years

833
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 1: being angry and bitter and frustrated about things you can't change.

834
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's true. I haven't really talked about that

835
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 3: aspect of it much. Absolutely right. Of course it's not okay.

836
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 1: Because you're saying there's got to be acceptance, and part

837
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: of me when fuck acceptance. But I know what you mean.

838
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 1: I think it's more for your mental health than your

839
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: own healing.

840
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 3: But at the business you know, it's not. No, it's

841
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 3: not like a religious kind of you've got to accept

842
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,479
Speaker 3: it and forget if I don't mean that, it's more

843
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 3: the phrase that comes to mind is it's calling a

844
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 3: spade a spade. It's seeing it clearly, it's stating it.

845
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 3: So when I say when I say acceptance, I suppose,

846
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 3: especially in relation to our past, I think it's more

847
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 3: clearly stating your truth seeing it, just holding it there

848
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 3: like yes that happened, and yes that was my reaction.

849
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 3: No more did it happen, did it not? Should it have?

850
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 3: Should it not? But just hold it? See it almost

851
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 3: It's tricky, isn't it. But there is a sense of

852
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 3: ownership there. So in that space, that's what I mean. Really,

853
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 3: it's truth telling. That's what it Just get.

854
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:45,879
Speaker 1: To the level of okayness that you're now at. When

855
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: did you start just going this is what happened. I'm

856
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: not you know, I'm not flowering it up. I'm not embellishing,

857
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,720
Speaker 1: I'm not value I'm just saying, this is my truth,

858
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 1: this is what happened. When did that happen for you?

859
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: When did you get there? A year ago, ten years ago.

860
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 3: Probably about five years ago? Really really was able to

861
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 3: five years ago. It's a very interesting story. Having kids

862
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 3: the same age as I was when it happened. Wow,

863
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 3: more memories. So I had to then do a lot

864
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 3: of work with some great therapist, great sematic practitioner, great

865
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 3: IFS practitioner, internal family systems, which I love. It's so

866
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 3: good to support me through that. The stuff that came up,

867
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 3: so it's layered. You know, everyone was an onion, isn't it.

868
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 3: That's what they say healing it's an onion. But that

869
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 3: is just the truth of it. You know, the only

870
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 3: way not to do it is not to do it

871
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 3: at all. You just little steps forward. It doesn't really

872
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 3: matter what direction that's in. And I've always had this

873
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 3: for us. I am in the twelve Step Fellowship. So

874
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 3: I went to OA for my eating disorder, which is

875
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 3: over each synonymous, terrible name for someone with anorexia. It

876
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 3: was very very conflicting for me to go there, like

877
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 3: overas s anonymous.

878
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't want to wear that libel? Is there?

879
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 1: An underrated? Is anonymous? Anyway?

880
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 3: I think they've created one for all the egoistic anorexics

881
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 3: that couldn't possibly walk in the room. Yeah, I'm joking. Sorry,

882
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 3: I'm being terribly silly.

883
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: It's not.

884
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 3: And within that it's it's quite a spiritual thing, you know.

885
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 3: It brings a spiritual dimension necessarily because really, you know,

886
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 3: if you if you have any kind of addiction, you've

887
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 3: got control issues. That's what it's about. So that there's

888
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:47,720
Speaker 3: a big dollop of let go go with the flow,

889
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 3: try and trust everything's okay. They're trying to bring that

890
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 3: aspect of it, and I think that was really important

891
00:52:55,520 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 3: for me in this space around this particular.

892
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, Wow, incredible. I don't know what your availability is,

893
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: but we definitely need to get you back. I'm going

894
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: to tell you right now. I can tell you that

895
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: my listeners, our listeners are going to fucking love you.

896
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: Oh no, your if you lived over here, would be friends.

897
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: Even if you didn't want to be my friend, you

898
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: would be. I'd bully you into it.

899
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:26,240
Speaker 3: I definitely would.

900
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: Be traumatized by how friendly I was.

901
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 3: No, I definitely would. I'll tell you why, because all

902
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,439
Speaker 3: my dearest friends wear an enormous amount and it gets

903
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 3: me in a huge amount of trouble. Safely, I went

904
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 3: to my youngest daughter, she's four, and I went to

905
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 3: a birthday party that was all very proper, and I

906
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 3: ended up accidentally saying to a mum that a venture

907
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 3: she was doing was fucking weird, and I was laughing hysterically.

908
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 3: I meant with so much love, and I was bit

909
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:56,240
Speaker 3: I'm just I mean, I'm a I'm a schoolgates disaster.

910
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 3: So we definitely would.

911
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: I'm sure they bloody love you. I'm sure you know

912
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:02,320
Speaker 1: you need to write a book with fuck on the front,

913
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:04,919
Speaker 1: or like I said, you need to do second edition.

914
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 1: If you're not fucking broken Geezer.

915
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 3: Actually my next book. The chapter in it is called

916
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:10,280
Speaker 3: fuck the System.

917
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. Perfect, see you liberate everyone, Sarah Woodhouse dot com.

918
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: Go there, buy You're not Broken? Buy ten copies. And

919
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,240
Speaker 1: how do people find you, follow you and just generally

920
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: fucking love the shit out of you on social media?

921
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 1: How do they do that?

922
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 2: Well?

923
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 1: Yeah?

924
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 3: Please do that? Make me so happy? I'm at the

925
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 3: Sarah Woodhouse on Instagram and Facebook, and I'm at sn

926
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 3: underschool Woodhouse on Twitter. Sarah Naomi. You see middle name

927
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 3: Sarah Naomi.

928
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 1: We've got Melissa, Marie, Craig, Anthony, and Sharah Naomi. That's perfect.

929
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 1: Hey will you come back?

930
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 3: I would love to come back.

931
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 1: I think you can.

932
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 3: Liberating Glorious Experience sweary.

933
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: How much better is this podcast than anyone you've ever

934
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 1: been on?

935
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 3: I mean, like a lot, or just a bit, it's

936
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 3: so much better. I'll tell you what I'm actually I

937
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 3: don't know if this is terrible. I think my favorite

938
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 3: podcast is broad Topics. Have you ever heard it? No,

939
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:27,320
Speaker 3: It's it's wildly rude, but it's it's next level. It

940
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 3: makes you seem like a preschool teacher.

941
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: I need to lift my game then, because I do

942
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: not want to be seen as a priest for a

943
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 1: range of reasons.

944
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 3: So I'm totally down with the vibe of this podcast.

945
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,240
Speaker 3: If you listen to broad top topics, you'll go, oh wow.

946
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I'll think I need to ramp it up.

947
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: Sarah stay there, will say goodbye off here. But you're

948
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 1: fabulous and thank you for what you do. You're a

949
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 1: gift to the world and we appreciate you. Burning on

950
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 1: the You project.

951
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much. It's been an absolute blast.

952
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank.

953
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 1: You, Thanks Melissa, thank you both. That was brilliant, it

954
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 1: was Thanks everyone. Don't you just love her? Don't you

955
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 1: want to just squeeze her a little bit till she

956
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 1: fast with a squeeze? Yeah, squeeze would be good. Thanks everyone.