WEBVTT - Homeschooling for neo-nazis

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM. Australia

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<v Speaker 1>is neo Nazis performing secret mothers groups and have plans

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<v Speaker 1>for a network of home schools for their children. When

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<v Speaker 1>a government minister expressed concern, she was threatened, the latest

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<v Speaker 1>in a string of threats against female politicians by neo Nazis.

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<v Speaker 1>Now the Federal Police have praised the alarm, praising questions

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<v Speaker 1>about the risk of political violence. Today, Crime Reporter at

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<v Speaker 1>the Age Sharon Grotch on the National Socialist Network's threats

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<v Speaker 1>and weather authorities are doing enough to stop them. It's Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 1>December night. So Sharon, can we begin by talking about

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<v Speaker 1>this home schooling network that the NSN, the National Socialist

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<v Speaker 1>Network says.

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<v Speaker 2>That it's running.

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<v Speaker 1>When did you first hear about this?

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<v Speaker 2>So the National Socialist Network Australia's biggest neo Nazi group,

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<v Speaker 2>and they've been kind of riding a wave of infamy

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<v Speaker 2>of late off the back of all these stunts they've

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<v Speaker 2>been doing that include secretly organizing the March for Australia

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<v Speaker 2>and immigration rallies.

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<v Speaker 3>If we do not.

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<v Speaker 4>Maintain our demographics, if we do not stop immigration, then

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<v Speaker 4>our death is.

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<v Speaker 2>Certain and that's where their leader, Thomas Saul, was charged

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<v Speaker 2>with assault for allegedly storming an indigenous camp afterwards and

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<v Speaker 2>attacking counterprotesters. So it was at his bail hearing for that.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually Saul was arguing he's a family man, his group

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<v Speaker 2>have been running all these community events, and he led

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<v Speaker 2>slip they were building homeschool networks.

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<v Speaker 4>Too far right activist revealed his educational aspirations in a

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<v Speaker 4>court here in September, claiming his National Socialist Network is

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<v Speaker 4>looking to expand into homeschooling.

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<v Speaker 2>I noticed the NSNs Mothers group have been growing a

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<v Speaker 2>lot lately. They'll often post pictures of all the Nazi

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<v Speaker 2>tradwives getting together with their little ones. So I thought, look,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll take a look, and I found they've actually been

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<v Speaker 2>building this network of family cliques, as Saul calls them,

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<v Speaker 2>around the country for about a year now. Saul had

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<v Speaker 2>laid out his plans to form a school of sorts

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<v Speaker 2>too big for the government to shut down, maybe around

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<v Speaker 2>last year, and they've spoken a bit about it in

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<v Speaker 2>their internal chats, some of which have been leaked to me.

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<v Speaker 2>So Saul basically wants to create what he calls a

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<v Speaker 2>parallel economy and a society for white people before he

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<v Speaker 2>gets around to actually deporting all the people of color,

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<v Speaker 2>which the group also want to do. But experts are

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<v Speaker 2>worried they're trying to mold their own hitless soldiers with this.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, one of a former Nazi recruit told me

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<v Speaker 2>he's heard about all these second generation Nazis or kids

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<v Speaker 2>of members joining their stunts, and I've noticed a few

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<v Speaker 2>of them as well.

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<v Speaker 1>A right, okay, And so over the weekend the Victorian

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<v Speaker 1>government spoke about this. It said that it had gone

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<v Speaker 1>to the Education Regulator and asked it to investigate the matter.

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<v Speaker 1>So tell me more about how the Victorian government is

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<v Speaker 1>responding and what we're hearing then from the NSN.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, So once Saul mentioned that in open court, the

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<v Speaker 2>Victorian government decided we better take a look.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I don't think there's any place for hate anywhere

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<v Speaker 3>in this state, and particularly not in any kind of

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<v Speaker 3>educational system.

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<v Speaker 2>It's also a crime to run an unregistered school. In

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<v Speaker 2>February here the Allen government increased penalties for those who

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<v Speaker 2>don't complied with child safety rules in other standards like that.

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<v Speaker 2>So the NSN weren't happy to hear this said before

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<v Speaker 2>if the government ever tried to come for their kids.

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<v Speaker 2>That is when he'd become a terrorist and start killing people.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a direct quote. So then one of the government ministers,

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<v Speaker 2>Gabrielle Williams, she was asked about this on the weekend

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<v Speaker 2>and she said she was worried action might be needed.

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<v Speaker 3>These allegations will be of great interest to the Victorian

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<v Speaker 3>Regulator and in assessing what may be going on and

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<v Speaker 3>what action may need.

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<v Speaker 2>To be taken up very quickly. One of the senior

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<v Speaker 2>nats is in the group, a guy called Jimmy and Roberts.

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<v Speaker 2>He started targeting her online. He posted her photo on

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<v Speaker 2>Telegram and he had a bit of a warning saying

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<v Speaker 2>Gabrielle should be wary of the rhetoric she's engaging in.

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<v Speaker 2>And he made a few other posts as well where

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<v Speaker 2>he railed about the government policing white people educating their kids.

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<v Speaker 2>And in one of those posts he said Newton's third

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<v Speaker 2>law might be that every action has an equal and

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<v Speaker 2>opposite reaction, but Jimbo's first law is fuck around and

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<v Speaker 2>find out.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, And what about Thomas saw He is, as you say,

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<v Speaker 1>he's the leader of the Edison. He was released on

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<v Speaker 1>bail recently. What have we heard from him since then?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, so he was released after all that, he's out

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<v Speaker 2>on bail and he had a big homecoming of sorts

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<v Speaker 2>actually the other weekend, with a record number of Nazis

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<v Speaker 2>turning up to train with him in a Melbourne park

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<v Speaker 2>for their monthly boxing sessions. But what caught my interest

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<v Speaker 2>was his appearance on a show with the British White

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<v Speaker 2>Supremacist last week. Saull vowed to make an example of

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<v Speaker 2>his enemies in Australia that would make the murderous rampage

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<v Speaker 2>and planned race war of Charlie Manson's cult look moderate.

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<v Speaker 2>And these are some of his first public comments since

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<v Speaker 2>he was released on bail. He was on there also

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<v Speaker 2>bragging about all the money and influence now flooding to

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<v Speaker 2>his group as its recruitment numbers saw and unfortunately his

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<v Speaker 2>raj they are growing and other extremists overseas are really

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<v Speaker 2>rallying around them. That's the context of this new homeschooling

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<v Speaker 2>headmaster I.

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<v Speaker 1>Guess coming up the threats to female politicians and a

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<v Speaker 1>warning from the Federal Police sharing these threats to Minister

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<v Speaker 1>Gariel Williams. They haven't happened in isolation. Last month, two

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<v Speaker 1>Nazis were charged by the Australian Federal Police over threats

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<v Speaker 1>to federal MPs. Tell me about that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, so last month was a big one for the innocent.

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<v Speaker 2>Our papers got a tip they were going to hold

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<v Speaker 2>a rally outside New South Wales Parliament and sure enough

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<v Speaker 2>they turned up with their banners chanting Hitler youth slogans

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<v Speaker 2>like blood and honor. We have since unmasked a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of them, particularly my colleagues City Morning Herald Alegraspender was

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<v Speaker 2>one of the first politicians really condemning that action online,

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<v Speaker 2>and she and another female MP, Kelly Sloane. Sloan is

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<v Speaker 2>actually now the New South Wales Liberals new head. They

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<v Speaker 2>both started getting threats and nasty comments for speaking out

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<v Speaker 2>pretty quickly. One message appeared on telegram that really stood out.

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<v Speaker 2>It was from a prominent figure in the NSN, Joel Davis.

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<v Speaker 2>He urged his supporters to rhetorically rape a leg responder.

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<v Speaker 2>He was linking to her post and calling on their

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<v Speaker 2>far right army of social media trolls to pile on

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<v Speaker 2>and abuse her basically, but Spender reported it to the

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<v Speaker 2>AFP and he was arrested and he's been refused bail actually,

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<v Speaker 2>so he's still in custody.

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<v Speaker 5>Yesterday, an investigation undertaken by the National Security Investigations Team

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<v Speaker 5>in New South Wales led to the arrest and charging

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<v Speaker 5>of a thirty year old man for the offense of

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<v Speaker 5>using a carriage service to harass a federal member of Parliament.

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<v Speaker 2>A day after that, another neo Nazi in Melbourne was

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<v Speaker 2>charged for harassing Senate to Livia Thorpe. He was making

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<v Speaker 2>threatening calls, sending emails. He even stomped on an Indigenous

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<v Speaker 2>flag outside her office, according to police, and another man

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<v Speaker 2>in Tamworth was charged for making threats to the Prime

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<v Speaker 2>Minister online.

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<v Speaker 1>The twenty nine year old Tamworth man is accused of

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<v Speaker 1>harassing a high office holder online, whose Seven News understands

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<v Speaker 1>was Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't know if that guy was a Nazi, but

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<v Speaker 2>when police raided his house they said they found a

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<v Speaker 2>jail blaster rifle ammo. So he's now been charged with

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<v Speaker 2>weapons charges as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Okay, so at this stage there's threats, there may also.

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<v Speaker 2>Be weapons involved.

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<v Speaker 1>So how big is the risk here of political violence

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<v Speaker 1>or some sort of attack.

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<v Speaker 2>The AFP came out last week and with all these

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<v Speaker 2>arrests and said, yes, these threats to politicians are becoming

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<v Speaker 2>a big issue for them.

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<v Speaker 5>Threats against federal parliamentarians is a significant issue for us,

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<v Speaker 5>and we are on the record previously talking about the

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<v Speaker 5>year on year increase that we're seeing in relation to threats.

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<v Speaker 5>It's at sixty three percent over the last four years,

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<v Speaker 5>and then the financial year of twenty four to twenty

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<v Speaker 5>five we've seen upwards of nine hundred and fifty one

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<v Speaker 5>referrals or threats against parliamentarians.

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<v Speaker 2>We've reported a lot on this group having really close

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<v Speaker 2>ties to extremists around the world, including designated terror groups

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<v Speaker 2>like the Base, who have recruited NSM members before. But

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<v Speaker 2>security services always say the group has to be caught

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<v Speaker 2>in the act of planning a terror attack to meet

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<v Speaker 2>their threshold for being designated themselves, and designating the NSN

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<v Speaker 2>is something the group is really worried about, as it

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<v Speaker 2>was a strong tactic used to disband Nazi groups in

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<v Speaker 2>places like the UK, so at the moment, obviously people

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<v Speaker 2>are worried. The climate is really heightened. A lot of

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<v Speaker 2>this though for the Nazi seems to be around the

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<v Speaker 2>theater of it being seen to bully their enemies into silence.

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<v Speaker 2>They call it ratio in when they ratioed, callis sloan

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<v Speaker 2>and allegor spender, claiming victory that way. They're now also

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<v Speaker 2>trying to push into politics and try and sort of

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<v Speaker 2>indoctrinate and recruit more members of the public under this

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<v Speaker 2>kind of cloak of being everyday Australians with you know,

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<v Speaker 2>legitimate concerns about immigrations. So it is sort of hard

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<v Speaker 2>to say how this is going, but certainly police are

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<v Speaker 2>watching them really closely, and so is ASI.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, And as you say, this is all coming

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<v Speaker 1>in the context of the NSN becoming more public, more

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<v Speaker 1>vocal with these recruitment drives rallies. So can you tell

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<v Speaker 1>me a bit about how you are thinking about their

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<v Speaker 1>growth at the moment and why it's happening right now.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the INNOCN has for a while now been one

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<v Speaker 2>of the most high profile Nazi groups in the world.

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<v Speaker 2>I hate to mention that because they love the publicity,

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<v Speaker 2>but their numbers are huge. But they run a particularly

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<v Speaker 2>effective active club model basically where they get these young

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<v Speaker 2>vulnerable men in for boxing and training boot camps, camping

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<v Speaker 2>trips and then they start with the Hitler worship. But

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<v Speaker 2>in the past year I've noticed they've really gone into

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<v Speaker 2>this recruiting overdrive. Those numbers seem to be doubling, especially

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<v Speaker 2>in Melbourne and New South Wales, and they've been pulling

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<v Speaker 2>all kinds of stunts to hijack the national debate. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you might remember they were booing during the Anzac Day

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<v Speaker 2>dawn service. They were ambushing politicians on the federal election trail,

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<v Speaker 2>including the Prime Minister. We revealed all of that at

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<v Speaker 2>the time as being this coordinated push to look like

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<v Speaker 2>everyday Aussies. They're also seemed to be going after people

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<v Speaker 2>with money and influence, and you know, they've recruited quite

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of rich young men lately from pretty influential families.

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<v Speaker 2>So they were also trying to form this neo Nazi

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<v Speaker 2>political party. They're actually saying now that you know, at

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<v Speaker 2>least they're claiming they've signed up the fifteen hundred members

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<v Speaker 2>they need to re just a federal neo Nazi party,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're really planning to go after the upcoming state

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<v Speaker 2>elections in New South Wales and Victoria too. They're wary

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<v Speaker 2>of police crackdowns, because there's been a lot lately and

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<v Speaker 2>they're trying all different kinds of tricks. They're also very

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<v Speaker 2>emboldened by the success by the publicity they've had of late,

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<v Speaker 2>so we've sort of hit a bit of a tipping

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<v Speaker 2>point where it's quite hard now to ignore them. Often

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<v Speaker 2>as journalists we don't want to give these guys oxygen.

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<v Speaker 2>But what they're doing, the tactics they're using are quite

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<v Speaker 2>scary and quite effective, and they're worthy of exposing.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that they will be able to get

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<v Speaker 1>to the point of running candidates? Does that seem likely?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, look, that's their plan and they certainly are giving

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<v Speaker 2>it a crack. They've been thinking about things like preference deals.

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<v Speaker 2>They've been thinking about, you know, how big a percentage

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<v Speaker 2>of the vote they'd actually have to get, and they've

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<v Speaker 2>said that they think they're best shot is in South

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<v Speaker 2>Wales in Victoria because of their electoral rules. Their goal

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<v Speaker 2>really is to take votes away from the Liberal Party

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<v Speaker 2>so they can form a coalition with other far right

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<v Speaker 2>groups who are sympathetic to some of their views. But

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<v Speaker 2>once you're threatening people with violence, can you really then

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<v Speaker 2>stand in Parliament and say you're an upstanding citizen. We'll

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<v Speaker 2>have to wait and see, but certainly people are starting

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<v Speaker 2>to wake up and take them seriously.

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<v Speaker 1>Sharon, thank you so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 6>Ruby.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news, there are only a few more

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<v Speaker 1>current MPs in Federal Parliament that One Nation leader Pauline

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<v Speaker 1>Hanson would be open to recruiting. Hanson made the comments

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<v Speaker 1>after it was finally confirmed that Barnaby Joyce would be

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<v Speaker 1>joining her party after his recent defection from the Nationals.

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<v Speaker 1>Hanson said she's opened roughly seventy branches across the country

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<v Speaker 1>in the last couple of months, part of her expansion

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<v Speaker 1>effort as the far right party performs historically well in

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<v Speaker 1>the polls and the federal government will not extend the

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<v Speaker 1>subsidy for household electricity bills. The Treasurer has confirmed a

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<v Speaker 1>subsidy of seventy five dollars per quarter per household started

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<v Speaker 1>in mid twenty twenty three and was extended twice due

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<v Speaker 1>to cost of living pressures. Charmers said it was a

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<v Speaker 1>hard decision to scrap the discount, but it had to

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<v Speaker 1>be done because of budget pressures. I'm Ruby Jones. This

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<v Speaker 1>is seven am. Thanks for listening.