Speaker 1: I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM. Australia
Speaker 1: is neo Nazis performing secret mothers groups and have plans
Speaker 1: for a network of home schools for their children. When
Speaker 1: a government minister expressed concern, she was threatened, the latest
Speaker 1: in a string of threats against female politicians by neo Nazis.
Speaker 1: Now the Federal Police have praised the alarm, praising questions
Speaker 1: about the risk of political violence. Today, Crime Reporter at
Speaker 1: the Age Sharon Grotch on the National Socialist Network's threats
Speaker 1: and weather authorities are doing enough to stop them. It's Tuesday,
Speaker 1: December night. So Sharon, can we begin by talking about
Speaker 1: this home schooling network that the NSN, the National Socialist
Speaker 1: Network says.
Speaker 2: That it's running.
Speaker 1: When did you first hear about this?
Speaker 2: So the National Socialist Network Australia's biggest neo Nazi group,
Speaker 2: and they've been kind of riding a wave of infamy
Speaker 2: of late off the back of all these stunts they've
Speaker 2: been doing that include secretly organizing the March for Australia
Speaker 2: and immigration rallies.
Speaker 3: If we do not.
Speaker 4: Maintain our demographics, if we do not stop immigration, then
Speaker 4: our death is.
Speaker 2: Certain and that's where their leader, Thomas Saul, was charged
Speaker 2: with assault for allegedly storming an indigenous camp afterwards and
Speaker 2: attacking counterprotesters. So it was at his bail hearing for that.
Speaker 2: Actually Saul was arguing he's a family man, his group
Speaker 2: have been running all these community events, and he led
Speaker 2: slip they were building homeschool networks.
Speaker 4: Too far right activist revealed his educational aspirations in a
Speaker 4: court here in September, claiming his National Socialist Network is
Speaker 4: looking to expand into homeschooling.
Speaker 2: I noticed the NSNs Mothers group have been growing a
Speaker 2: lot lately. They'll often post pictures of all the Nazi
Speaker 2: tradwives getting together with their little ones. So I thought, look,
Speaker 2: I'll take a look, and I found they've actually been
Speaker 2: building this network of family cliques, as Saul calls them,
Speaker 2: around the country for about a year now. Saul had
Speaker 2: laid out his plans to form a school of sorts
Speaker 2: too big for the government to shut down, maybe around
Speaker 2: last year, and they've spoken a bit about it in
Speaker 2: their internal chats, some of which have been leaked to me.
Speaker 2: So Saul basically wants to create what he calls a
Speaker 2: parallel economy and a society for white people before he
Speaker 2: gets around to actually deporting all the people of color,
Speaker 2: which the group also want to do. But experts are
Speaker 2: worried they're trying to mold their own hitless soldiers with this.
Speaker 2: I mean, one of a former Nazi recruit told me
Speaker 2: he's heard about all these second generation Nazis or kids
Speaker 2: of members joining their stunts, and I've noticed a few
Speaker 2: of them as well.
Speaker 1: A right, okay, And so over the weekend the Victorian
Speaker 1: government spoke about this. It said that it had gone
Speaker 1: to the Education Regulator and asked it to investigate the matter.
Speaker 1: So tell me more about how the Victorian government is
Speaker 1: responding and what we're hearing then from the NSN.
Speaker 2: Yes, So once Saul mentioned that in open court, the
Speaker 2: Victorian government decided we better take a look.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think there's any place for hate anywhere
Speaker 3: in this state, and particularly not in any kind of
Speaker 3: educational system.
Speaker 2: It's also a crime to run an unregistered school. In
Speaker 2: February here the Allen government increased penalties for those who
Speaker 2: don't complied with child safety rules in other standards like that.
Speaker 2: So the NSN weren't happy to hear this said before
Speaker 2: if the government ever tried to come for their kids.
Speaker 2: That is when he'd become a terrorist and start killing people.
Speaker 2: That's a direct quote. So then one of the government ministers,
Speaker 2: Gabrielle Williams, she was asked about this on the weekend
Speaker 2: and she said she was worried action might be needed.
Speaker 3: These allegations will be of great interest to the Victorian
Speaker 3: Regulator and in assessing what may be going on and
Speaker 3: what action may need.
Speaker 2: To be taken up very quickly. One of the senior
Speaker 2: nats is in the group, a guy called Jimmy and Roberts.
Speaker 2: He started targeting her online. He posted her photo on
Speaker 2: Telegram and he had a bit of a warning saying
Speaker 2: Gabrielle should be wary of the rhetoric she's engaging in.
Speaker 2: And he made a few other posts as well where
Speaker 2: he railed about the government policing white people educating their kids.
Speaker 2: And in one of those posts he said Newton's third
Speaker 2: law might be that every action has an equal and
Speaker 2: opposite reaction, but Jimbo's first law is fuck around and
Speaker 2: find out.
Speaker 1: Okay, And what about Thomas saw He is, as you say,
Speaker 1: he's the leader of the Edison. He was released on
Speaker 1: bail recently. What have we heard from him since then?
Speaker 2: Yes, so he was released after all that, he's out
Speaker 2: on bail and he had a big homecoming of sorts
Speaker 2: actually the other weekend, with a record number of Nazis
Speaker 2: turning up to train with him in a Melbourne park
Speaker 2: for their monthly boxing sessions. But what caught my interest
Speaker 2: was his appearance on a show with the British White
Speaker 2: Supremacist last week. Saull vowed to make an example of
Speaker 2: his enemies in Australia that would make the murderous rampage
Speaker 2: and planned race war of Charlie Manson's cult look moderate.
Speaker 2: And these are some of his first public comments since
Speaker 2: he was released on bail. He was on there also
Speaker 2: bragging about all the money and influence now flooding to
Speaker 2: his group as its recruitment numbers saw and unfortunately his
Speaker 2: raj they are growing and other extremists overseas are really
Speaker 2: rallying around them. That's the context of this new homeschooling
Speaker 2: headmaster I.
Speaker 1: Guess coming up the threats to female politicians and a
Speaker 1: warning from the Federal Police sharing these threats to Minister
Speaker 1: Gariel Williams. They haven't happened in isolation. Last month, two
Speaker 1: Nazis were charged by the Australian Federal Police over threats
Speaker 1: to federal MPs. Tell me about that.
Speaker 2: Yes, so last month was a big one for the innocent.
Speaker 2: Our papers got a tip they were going to hold
Speaker 2: a rally outside New South Wales Parliament and sure enough
Speaker 2: they turned up with their banners chanting Hitler youth slogans
Speaker 2: like blood and honor. We have since unmasked a lot
Speaker 2: of them, particularly my colleagues City Morning Herald Alegraspender was
Speaker 2: one of the first politicians really condemning that action online,
Speaker 2: and she and another female MP, Kelly Sloane. Sloan is
Speaker 2: actually now the New South Wales Liberals new head. They
Speaker 2: both started getting threats and nasty comments for speaking out
Speaker 2: pretty quickly. One message appeared on telegram that really stood out.
Speaker 2: It was from a prominent figure in the NSN, Joel Davis.
Speaker 2: He urged his supporters to rhetorically rape a leg responder.
Speaker 2: He was linking to her post and calling on their
Speaker 2: far right army of social media trolls to pile on
Speaker 2: and abuse her basically, but Spender reported it to the
Speaker 2: AFP and he was arrested and he's been refused bail actually,
Speaker 2: so he's still in custody.
Speaker 5: Yesterday, an investigation undertaken by the National Security Investigations Team
Speaker 5: in New South Wales led to the arrest and charging
Speaker 5: of a thirty year old man for the offense of
Speaker 5: using a carriage service to harass a federal member of Parliament.
Speaker 2: A day after that, another neo Nazi in Melbourne was
Speaker 2: charged for harassing Senate to Livia Thorpe. He was making
Speaker 2: threatening calls, sending emails. He even stomped on an Indigenous
Speaker 2: flag outside her office, according to police, and another man
Speaker 2: in Tamworth was charged for making threats to the Prime
Speaker 2: Minister online.
Speaker 1: The twenty nine year old Tamworth man is accused of
Speaker 1: harassing a high office holder online, whose Seven News understands
Speaker 1: was Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi.
Speaker 2: We don't know if that guy was a Nazi, but
Speaker 2: when police raided his house they said they found a
Speaker 2: jail blaster rifle ammo. So he's now been charged with
Speaker 2: weapons charges as well.
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, so at this stage there's threats, there may also.
Speaker 2: Be weapons involved.
Speaker 1: So how big is the risk here of political violence
Speaker 1: or some sort of attack.
Speaker 2: The AFP came out last week and with all these
Speaker 2: arrests and said, yes, these threats to politicians are becoming
Speaker 2: a big issue for them.
Speaker 5: Threats against federal parliamentarians is a significant issue for us,
Speaker 5: and we are on the record previously talking about the
Speaker 5: year on year increase that we're seeing in relation to threats.
Speaker 5: It's at sixty three percent over the last four years,
Speaker 5: and then the financial year of twenty four to twenty
Speaker 5: five we've seen upwards of nine hundred and fifty one
Speaker 5: referrals or threats against parliamentarians.
Speaker 2: We've reported a lot on this group having really close
Speaker 2: ties to extremists around the world, including designated terror groups
Speaker 2: like the Base, who have recruited NSM members before. But
Speaker 2: security services always say the group has to be caught
Speaker 2: in the act of planning a terror attack to meet
Speaker 2: their threshold for being designated themselves, and designating the NSN
Speaker 2: is something the group is really worried about, as it
Speaker 2: was a strong tactic used to disband Nazi groups in
Speaker 2: places like the UK, so at the moment, obviously people
Speaker 2: are worried. The climate is really heightened. A lot of
Speaker 2: this though for the Nazi seems to be around the
Speaker 2: theater of it being seen to bully their enemies into silence.
Speaker 2: They call it ratio in when they ratioed, callis sloan
Speaker 2: and allegor spender, claiming victory that way. They're now also
Speaker 2: trying to push into politics and try and sort of
Speaker 2: indoctrinate and recruit more members of the public under this
Speaker 2: kind of cloak of being everyday Australians with you know,
Speaker 2: legitimate concerns about immigrations. So it is sort of hard
Speaker 2: to say how this is going, but certainly police are
Speaker 2: watching them really closely, and so is ASI.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And as you say, this is all coming
Speaker 1: in the context of the NSN becoming more public, more
Speaker 1: vocal with these recruitment drives rallies. So can you tell
Speaker 1: me a bit about how you are thinking about their
Speaker 1: growth at the moment and why it's happening right now.
Speaker 2: Well, the INNOCN has for a while now been one
Speaker 2: of the most high profile Nazi groups in the world.
Speaker 2: I hate to mention that because they love the publicity,
Speaker 2: but their numbers are huge. But they run a particularly
Speaker 2: effective active club model basically where they get these young
Speaker 2: vulnerable men in for boxing and training boot camps, camping
Speaker 2: trips and then they start with the Hitler worship. But
Speaker 2: in the past year I've noticed they've really gone into
Speaker 2: this recruiting overdrive. Those numbers seem to be doubling, especially
Speaker 2: in Melbourne and New South Wales, and they've been pulling
Speaker 2: all kinds of stunts to hijack the national debate. I mean,
Speaker 2: you might remember they were booing during the Anzac Day
Speaker 2: dawn service. They were ambushing politicians on the federal election trail,
Speaker 2: including the Prime Minister. We revealed all of that at
Speaker 2: the time as being this coordinated push to look like
Speaker 2: everyday Aussies. They're also seemed to be going after people
Speaker 2: with money and influence, and you know, they've recruited quite
Speaker 2: a lot of rich young men lately from pretty influential families.
Speaker 2: So they were also trying to form this neo Nazi
Speaker 2: political party. They're actually saying now that you know, at
Speaker 2: least they're claiming they've signed up the fifteen hundred members
Speaker 2: they need to re just a federal neo Nazi party,
Speaker 2: and they're really planning to go after the upcoming state
Speaker 2: elections in New South Wales and Victoria too. They're wary
Speaker 2: of police crackdowns, because there's been a lot lately and
Speaker 2: they're trying all different kinds of tricks. They're also very
Speaker 2: emboldened by the success by the publicity they've had of late,
Speaker 2: so we've sort of hit a bit of a tipping
Speaker 2: point where it's quite hard now to ignore them. Often
Speaker 2: as journalists we don't want to give these guys oxygen.
Speaker 2: But what they're doing, the tactics they're using are quite
Speaker 2: scary and quite effective, and they're worthy of exposing.
Speaker 1: Do you think that they will be able to get
Speaker 1: to the point of running candidates? Does that seem likely?
Speaker 2: Well, look, that's their plan and they certainly are giving
Speaker 2: it a crack. They've been thinking about things like preference deals.
Speaker 2: They've been thinking about, you know, how big a percentage
Speaker 2: of the vote they'd actually have to get, and they've
Speaker 2: said that they think they're best shot is in South
Speaker 2: Wales in Victoria because of their electoral rules. Their goal
Speaker 2: really is to take votes away from the Liberal Party
Speaker 2: so they can form a coalition with other far right
Speaker 2: groups who are sympathetic to some of their views. But
Speaker 2: once you're threatening people with violence, can you really then
Speaker 2: stand in Parliament and say you're an upstanding citizen. We'll
Speaker 2: have to wait and see, but certainly people are starting
Speaker 2: to wake up and take them seriously.
Speaker 1: Sharon, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 6: Ruby.
Speaker 1: Also in the news, there are only a few more
Speaker 1: current MPs in Federal Parliament that One Nation leader Pauline
Speaker 1: Hanson would be open to recruiting. Hanson made the comments
Speaker 1: after it was finally confirmed that Barnaby Joyce would be
Speaker 1: joining her party after his recent defection from the Nationals.
Speaker 1: Hanson said she's opened roughly seventy branches across the country
Speaker 1: in the last couple of months, part of her expansion
Speaker 1: effort as the far right party performs historically well in
Speaker 1: the polls and the federal government will not extend the
Speaker 1: subsidy for household electricity bills. The Treasurer has confirmed a
Speaker 1: subsidy of seventy five dollars per quarter per household started
Speaker 1: in mid twenty twenty three and was extended twice due
Speaker 1: to cost of living pressures. Charmers said it was a
Speaker 1: hard decision to scrap the discount, but it had to
Speaker 1: be done because of budget pressures. I'm Ruby Jones. This
Speaker 1: is seven am. Thanks for listening.