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Speaker 1: Okay, let me pass the tree and then we've got

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Speaker 1: a gate up here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, gates open.

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Speaker 3: This is the sound of Nina and I back in

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Speaker 3: the car on the trail of Frank Abbott on this car.

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Speaker 3: We'll get to the gate, and this is the sound

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Speaker 3: of us hitting an obstacle, or in this case, a

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Speaker 3: series of obstacles, big rough bumps and rocks in the

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Speaker 3: dirt road.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely not a way anyone goes regularly.

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Speaker 3: No, it's not calling it a road is probably overstating it.

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Speaker 1: No one has come out and screamed with this to

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Speaker 1: get off their properly. Probably not on someone's property.

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Speaker 2: Well, I also think that's because no one lives here.

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Speaker 3: To fully appreciate the situation Nina and I are now in.

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Speaker 3: It helps to know that the car we're driving is

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Speaker 3: all most brand new.

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Speaker 1: Very high grass here that we're driving through.

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Speaker 3: The car also belongs to our employers, freaking right down,

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Speaker 3: and our bosses have absolutely no idea.

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Speaker 2: What we're up to.

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Speaker 3: What we're going to do is get to the gate

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Speaker 3: and then just check the underside of the car. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: But to understand why Nina and I have got ourselves

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Speaker 3: into this situation.

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Speaker 1: Dean's gone to move a fallen tree. Valliant effort. You

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Speaker 1: might do it. It's a full tree.

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Speaker 4: Car's fine, really objectively creepy looking forest.

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Speaker 3: To understand why we're bumping our way through this creepy

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Speaker 3: looking forest, and why we've ignored the advice of local

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Speaker 3: people who say you cannot get through on the road

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Speaker 3: this way.

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Speaker 4: Now, well, the local kids said we couldn't get through

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Speaker 4: this way, Well they might be right.

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Speaker 1: They may be right.

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Speaker 3: To understand why you have to go back.

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Speaker 2: And I think at this point we run out of road.

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Speaker 3: Back to that witness statement from Irish Northam which was

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Speaker 3: released to us by the inquest into William Tyrrel's disappearance,

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Speaker 3: I think we have to walk from him. The witness

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Speaker 3: statement we looked at in the last episode, which talks

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Speaker 3: about Frank Abbott and the unsolved murder of Margaret Cox.

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Speaker 3: Because that witness statement also talks about Frank and another

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Speaker 3: unsolved murder, this time of a teenage girl whose body

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Speaker 3: was discovered near a rough dirt road like this one.

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Speaker 1: So let's go for a walk, maybe lock the car.

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Speaker 3: I'm Danbox and from news dot com dot Au. This

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Speaker 3: is witness William Tyrell episode fifteen. Hry Lee, All right,

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Speaker 3: let's go back to the beginning.

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Speaker 1: What are we doing?

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Speaker 3: All right, So we're sitting in the car in Kendletown,

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Speaker 3: which is a village outside Tari on the north coast

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Speaker 3: of New South Wales. And the reason we're sitting here

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Speaker 3: is Iris Northam, who's the witness who gives evidence of

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Speaker 3: the inquest. In her statement, she says that Frank Abbot

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Speaker 3: would go the back road from Cundletown through Brimbin Road

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Speaker 3: which was partly forest, and make his way to Tarree.

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Speaker 3: And he'd also drive a back road from Cedar Party

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Speaker 3: onto Wingham Road which brings you back to Tarre. If

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Speaker 3: you're struggling to follow, the key thing is Frank Abbot

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Speaker 3: told Iris Northam that he drove the back roads.

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Speaker 2: He'd gone the back roads to avoid the police, according

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Speaker 2: to Iris.

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Speaker 3: According to Iris, but we also know from other evidence

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Speaker 3: of the inquest that Frank often drove cars without a

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Speaker 3: license and he often drove unregistered cars, so he had

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Speaker 3: a reason to want to avoid the police. Other people

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Speaker 3: we've spoken to have said the same, that people used

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Speaker 3: to drive the back roads through the forest between Cundletown

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Speaker 3: and Tarree. And that might be important because Iris also

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Speaker 3: said that another girl went missing from Tarree and her

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Speaker 3: body was found a few years after she went missing.

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Speaker 3: And Iris says her body was found in Brimbin Road.

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Speaker 3: Brimbin Road in the back road between Condletown and Tarree,

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Speaker 3: and Iris says she only mentions it because it's one

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Speaker 3: of the roads that Frank used to drive to avoid

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Speaker 3: being caught by the police. Now, Iris doesn't name that girl,

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Speaker 3: but she names her father. And you worked out that

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Speaker 3: that girl's a teenager called Showily Masters who was ultimately

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Speaker 3: found on a bush track not far from Brimban Reserve.

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Speaker 3: So what Iris is doing is she's the one making

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Speaker 3: the connection and the evidence before the inquest between Frank

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Speaker 3: and this girl's disappearance. But when I looked at a

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Speaker 3: map this back road from Condletown to Tarree, I don't

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Speaker 3: think you can drive a back road from Kendletown to

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Speaker 3: Tiree because on the map it doesn't seem to work. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: there's a river in the way and no bridge that

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Speaker 3: I can see. And if it's not possible, then everything,

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Speaker 3: Iris says there falls apart. There is no connection that

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Speaker 3: she's made between Frank Abbot and this girl's disappearance because

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Speaker 3: you can't drive this back road. So there's only one

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Speaker 3: way to test it, which is to try and drive

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Speaker 3: the back road.

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Speaker 1: So let's do it.

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Speaker 2: We're going to do it.

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Speaker 3: So we set out to test Iris's statement, can you

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Speaker 3: go this way?

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Speaker 2: What am I looking for? Brimmen Road?

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Speaker 3: Aiming to see if we can find the road Iris describes,

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Speaker 3: which she says Frank Abbot used to drive, and where

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Speaker 3: the body of a seventeen year old girl known as

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Speaker 3: Shirrilee Masters was discovered. Sharry Lee was a carefree, spirited

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Speaker 3: teenager who was crazy about horses and cats and dogs,

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Speaker 3: any animal really, and she was last seen around the

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Speaker 3: year two thousand in Taree, telling friends she was going

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Speaker 3: to hitchhike south. At first, our attempt to find this

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Speaker 3: back road doesn't go well.

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Speaker 4: Directions it's off Landsdowne right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Stuck.

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Speaker 2: In three hundred meters, Turn left onto Dinnison's where we going?

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Speaker 3: Oh, we're not too far away, and hilariously, it's the

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Speaker 3: other direction to the one.

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Speaker 2: We were driving it.

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Speaker 3: So we turn around, leave Cundletown behind us, and quickly

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Speaker 3: the road empties and starts heading to empty country.

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Speaker 2: Like there's no road markings after here.

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Speaker 1: Where do we think we're going to turn off?

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Speaker 2: It could be this one here.

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Speaker 1: And my observation is this is quite far.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you've got to really want to not meet the police.

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Speaker 1: Because this isn't the convenient way to go.

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Speaker 3: No, it's empty road, gum trees on one side, fields on.

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Speaker 2: Either side, horses. Okay. So the next question then is

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Speaker 2: can you get to Tari?

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Speaker 1: What straight are we looking for?

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Speaker 4: That was my una.

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Speaker 3: That's the street okay, looking at the map, that's the

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Speaker 3: one that I think is most likely a backway to Tari.

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Speaker 1: Had always just ask the local children.

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Speaker 2: See, that's a really good ideas.

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Speaker 3: A bunch of kids here mucking around on motorbikes. Hey, guys,

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Speaker 3: is there a back road from here to Tarre without

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Speaker 3: having to go down all the way to the main road.

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Speaker 3: You have to go along the road, so none of

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Speaker 3: these turns on the right take you down there. So

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Speaker 3: the kids who live here and who muck around on

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Speaker 3: these roads on their dirt bikes, they seem to be

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Speaker 3: saying that Iris must be wrong because you can't drive

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Speaker 3: a back road from Kendletown to Tarree. Like she says,

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Speaker 3: thank you, guys. Nina and I decide to ignore the

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Speaker 3: locals and try to find a back road like the

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Speaker 3: one Iris describes anyway.

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Speaker 1: I reckon, we're on Summ's properly, not on the.

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Speaker 2: Property, but I don't know what is at the end

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Speaker 2: of the road.

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Speaker 3: You got the map, Yeah, yeah, so this one that

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Speaker 3: one there the kids told us ended in the sewage works.

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Speaker 1: One of them is going to take us to this.

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Speaker 2: This takes us right to the river.

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Speaker 1: Does it? And this is this is the only one.

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Speaker 1: This is the only way I think you could go

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Speaker 1: from having the place.

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Speaker 2: If we go down here and there's an old bridge,

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Speaker 2: it might be usable. It might not.

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Speaker 1: Then confirmed you could go. This way is a very

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Speaker 1: inconvenient way to go, but it's going to.

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Speaker 3: Be inconvenient because I don't know if we can actually

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Speaker 3: turn around once we start driving down here.

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Speaker 2: So let's go. As you know, this ends badly, car

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Speaker 2: will get to the game.

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Speaker 3: What Nina and I do discover is that the kids

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Speaker 3: on bikes were right. You definitely can't drive on a

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Speaker 3: back road between Kendletown and Tarre, as Iris says in

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Speaker 3: her statement to the William Tyrell in quest. So Iris's

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Speaker 3: statement is wrong except it turns out that that's not

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Speaker 3: quite what Iris was saying.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but we're just doing a little bit more follow up.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and some of the questions.

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Speaker 3: That we have that came out of the unrest, we

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Speaker 3: visit Iris and ask her specifically about this back road

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Speaker 3: you mentioned in.

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Speaker 6: Your statement as well, some of the back roads.

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Speaker 5: Oh. Yes, he used to do that because he said

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Speaker 5: they took me liscense away because of fines for different

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Speaker 5: things that I hadn't paid, and he said I couldn't

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Speaker 5: got on the highway in case they picked me up.

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Speaker 3: So I used to use.

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Speaker 5: The our fire tracks fire trials.

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Speaker 3: In Australia, a fire trails, a rough dirt road cleared

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Speaker 3: through the bush for fire crews to use in case

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Speaker 3: of a bushfire.

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Speaker 4: We're trying to drive them yesterday.

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Speaker 2: But we tell Iris the road that we tried to follow.

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Speaker 5: No, No, that's another one. Yeah, that's out near Candletown.

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Speaker 3: About another back road from Condletown to Taree.

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Speaker 5: Well, this one leads from.

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Speaker 3: You've got Iris gets a pen and paper and starts

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Speaker 3: drawing a rough map.

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Speaker 5: You've got John Throver there. Next down here is small

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Speaker 5: lane and from there it used to go through the

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Speaker 5: Forest to Lansdowne.

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Speaker 2: Suddenly we realize.

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Speaker 5: From Lansdowne it used to come into Candletown.

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Speaker 2: Nina and I had been on the wrong road.

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Speaker 5: To Brimbon Road and into the bushes and whatever.

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Speaker 3: We thought we'd been following the route in Iris's witness statement.

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Speaker 5: And from there around it comes out. I think it's

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Speaker 5: Young's but.

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Speaker 3: We were mistaken. We've been trying to follow Google maps.

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Speaker 5: Mostly, and from there they used to go along.

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Speaker 3: Wingham Row and the Iris is drawing on this piece

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Speaker 3: of paper on her kitchen table.

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Speaker 5: And turn left to go to the tendin Barling. It

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Speaker 5: isn't marked on our map, and the other one goes

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Speaker 5: to Brimbon.

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Speaker 3: I've been looking at a map one you've been saying.

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Speaker 3: So I've been looking at this map on my phone.

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Speaker 3: That road you're describing takes you straight through the Yarret Forest,

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Speaker 3: the state forest there. But that's where that body you're

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Speaker 3: talking about, Chevroley masters. That's the rough area where she

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Speaker 3: was found.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so if Frank.

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Speaker 3: Did use to drive along this road, that would put

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Speaker 3: Frank in the area where Chery's body was discovered.

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Speaker 5: He told us that's the way he went because he

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Speaker 5: didn't have a license, didn't want to get picked up.

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Speaker 3: So taking the map Iris has now drawn for us.

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Speaker 3: Nina and I decide again to go and try to drive.

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Speaker 5: It, and we'll give you a call if we guess.

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Speaker 2: How about that you could.

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Speaker 4: Tell us that with us.

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Speaker 3: So this is the Old Port mcquarie Road, a few

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Speaker 3: kilometers north of Tare and we're here because bluntly, we're

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Speaker 3: looking for where the body of show Lee Masters was found,

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Speaker 3: which is in this forest. And all we really know

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Speaker 3: is from newspaper reports at the time that is described

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Speaker 3: as a rarely used bush track within a kilometer of

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Speaker 3: where you come off the sealed road.

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Speaker 1: I mean she wasn't found for six years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's rarely used.

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Speaker 3: But the problem with that newspaper report is I don't

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Speaker 3: know if the reporter had actually been here because they

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Speaker 3: got the name of the road roll. They're called it

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Speaker 3: the Old Port Road and it's actually the Old Port

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Speaker 3: mcquarie Road.

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Speaker 1: It was written like they saw the crime scene tape.

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Speaker 3: Could it be that that looks like it might once

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Speaker 3: have been a track? Do you have the descript Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it says the crime scene tape roped off a rarely

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Speaker 3: used bush track leading off the Old Port Road, not

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Speaker 3: far from Brimban Reserve. The track is located less than

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Speaker 3: a kilometer off the tarred Cedar Party Road, which.

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Speaker 2: Is the way we drove up to get here.

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Speaker 3: It could be if that is an old bush track.

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Speaker 2: Let me have a look.

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Speaker 3: I get out and walk into the forest following the

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Speaker 3: bush track, trying to see if it could be the

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Speaker 3: same place described in the old newspaper clippings as where

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Speaker 3: Cheryly's body was discovered. And if you're thinking this all

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Speaker 3: seems quite vague, well so are we. One thing we

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Speaker 3: are learning is there's so little known about Scherly's murder

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Speaker 3: it's almost as if she vanished.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an old bush track.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't get much traffic, and there's no obvious gravesite

255
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Speaker 3: or anything, but I wouldn't expect one. What there is

256
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Speaker 3: is there's a bunch of stuff that's been flight tipped there.

257
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Speaker 3: So there's some old kind of old sofa cushions maybe,

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Speaker 3: and some kind of household.

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Speaker 4: It's said in the article that this is a popular

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Speaker 4: dumping area.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, people have been out there and just chuck stuff

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Speaker 3: in the bush. But I guess the significance of it

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Speaker 3: isn't so much that that might be the track where

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Speaker 3: Serie was found. As we know she was found in

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Speaker 3: this forest. We know she was found on this road.

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Speaker 3: And when we just were talking to Iris then and

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Speaker 3: the description she gave us of how Frank drove from

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Speaker 3: Condletown to Taree on back roads. The roads she described

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Speaker 3: the only way you can get between them are on

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Speaker 3: this old Port mcquarie road. So if her description of

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Speaker 3: how Frank drove at the time to escape the police

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Speaker 3: is accurate, then he had to come along this road,

273
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Speaker 3: which is where Cheverley Masters was found. But looking at

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Speaker 3: a map, I don't know if you can actually do

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Speaker 3: that loop through the forest. If you can, it's on

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Speaker 3: this road which is a dirt track, and the only

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Speaker 3: way to find out if you can or not is

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Speaker 3: to keep going. But I don't know if this car

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Speaker 3: is going to make.

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Speaker 1: It more concerning. The phrase she used was roads and

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Speaker 1: fire trails.

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Speaker 3: Why it's more concerning if you're the owner of this car,

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00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:52,960
Speaker 3: which are.

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Speaker 1: And there's a trail going there that way?

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Speaker 2: What's that That one's not even on the map.

286
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:05,159
Speaker 1: That one looks like you could have driven on it.

287
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Speaker 3: You said this earlier. You're only going to know these

288
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:12,680
Speaker 3: roads if you're a local. Yeah, so you're only going

289
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:18,600
Speaker 3: to find this is a place to dispose of Shery's body.

290
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Speaker 3: And I hate saying it as bluntly as that. Sorry,

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Speaker 3: if anyone's listening that did know her. But you're only

292
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 3: going to use these places and come to these places

293
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Speaker 3: if you know of them, and you'd have to be

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Speaker 3: a local to do that. It doesn't make me think

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00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,560
Speaker 3: one or two things. One is, if Frank Abbot's really

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Speaker 3: driving this road, then why is he so keen to

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00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:45,400
Speaker 3: avoid police, like getting stopped for driving without a license. Okay, yeah,

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00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,600
Speaker 3: you'd get in trouble for that, but driving this far

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Speaker 3: out of your way rather than taking the chance on

300
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Speaker 3: the three kilometer drive on the main road, it feels

301
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Speaker 3: like you really wanted to avoid police.

302
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Speaker 2: But the other thing it makes me think.

303
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:04,320
Speaker 3: Is all right, so you can't get through on these roads,

304
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 3: like Iris said, Frank told her he used to do,

305
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Speaker 3: so you can't do that. That doesn't mean that Iris

306
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 3: is wrong. It might mean that Frank was lying to Iris,

307
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,159
Speaker 3: that he wanted to give her a different reason for

308
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,320
Speaker 3: why he was driving on these roads, and maybe he

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00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:27,159
Speaker 3: had a reason he wanted to disguise, not necessarily that

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Speaker 3: he was involved in Sherly Master's murder. I'm not suggesting that,

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Speaker 3: but maybe there was something else he did up here

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Speaker 3: that he didn't want Irish to know about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but the problem is you can see.

314
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Speaker 1: On the map we're about to hit the end of

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Speaker 1: what Google says this.

316
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Speaker 2: Map is, and then there's a river.

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00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:50,359
Speaker 3: And that river's problem because if you can't get through

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Speaker 3: on this road, like Iris says Frank used to in

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00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 3: her witness statement, then there is nothing to connect Frank

320
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Speaker 3: Abbott to the place where Showy's body was discovered. And

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00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 3: if Iris's statement is wrong about that, then maybe she's

322
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:12,880
Speaker 3: also wrong about everything else, including the alleged links between

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00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:17,680
Speaker 3: Frank Abbott and the unsolved murder of Margaret Cox, which

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Speaker 3: we looked at in the last episode.

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Speaker 1: All right, doesn't go through.

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Speaker 3: No, on the map, you can't get past the river.

327
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,239
Speaker 3: But if we're going to find a way, it's going

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Speaker 3: to be just here, he says.

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Speaker 1: As he drives towards.

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Speaker 3: He says, as there's a massive close game. But the

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00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 3: thing about that closing gate road, old Port McQuary Road

332
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 3: goes beyond it and it's now.

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00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:58,400
Speaker 1: A footpath authorized vehicles only, But.

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Speaker 2: How old is the gate, So we're talking thirty years ago.

335
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if that gate wasn't there thirty years ago

336
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 3: when Shirrilee was murdered, maybe you could keep driving on

337
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,440
Speaker 3: this road over the river for now. Nina and I

338
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,920
Speaker 3: pull up at a little picnic area. It's completely empty.

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00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 3: I walk over to a wooden sign where there's a

340
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Speaker 3: map saying Brimbin Nature Reserve.

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00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, look at this. Look at this.

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00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,199
Speaker 3: This is the map on the I don't know what

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00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,400
Speaker 3: is it nature Reserve information sign and shows So we're there,

344
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 3: see the end of the road of the picnic area,

345
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 3: but it shows that that old Fort mcquarie road turns

346
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 3: into a footpath here and then it crosses the river.

347
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 3: It says it's called the Tommy Owen's Crossing. And then

348
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 3: the track goes on through the bush here and missus

349
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 3: Kelly's Crossing and miss Kelly's crossing of the river further up.

350
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Speaker 3: And then if you look on my phone and you

351
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 3: look at that bend in the river again, that takes

352
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 3: you back over it's the Awson River there and onto

353
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 3: dirt tracks in the forest that lead you back to

354
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 3: Brimbin Rogue.

355
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 2: So possibly actually there was a way to drive through here.

356
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 2: It's really out of the way, so maybe maybe you

357
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: could once drive the whole way the way Frank told

358
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:27,479
Speaker 2: Iris that he used to.

359
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 3: So it's only now that you can actually put Frank

360
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 3: Abbott as having been at the place where Sherrily Master's

361
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 3: body was found. So it's only now we've got that connection.

362
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 3: But none of this is proof of anything. Far from it,

363
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 3: particularly because when Nina and I do get to the river,

364
00:23:54,440 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 3: there's no way you could drive a car across it, at.

365
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 6: Least in its current state.

366
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 7: We can't drive that.

367
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 2: You can't get across that.

368
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,919
Speaker 3: There is a bridge, but it's a narrow walking bridge.

369
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, thirty years and floods.

370
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 3: I don't know what it looks about, unless there's any

371
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 3: evidence that there was a bigger bridge there once.

372
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 1: When there's a library, what's your local library full.

373
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 2: Of old maps?

374
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, So ever stopped researching.

375
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 3: We stopped recording and head back to the car, feeling subdued.

376
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 3: No bridge, no road, no connection between Frank wants driving

377
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 3: this route through the forest where Chery's body was discovered

378
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 3: after she was last seen in Taree in the year

379
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 3: two thousand.

380
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 2: Back at our.

381
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 3: Motel, I go to bed and wake up to a

382
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 3: text message from Nina.

383
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 2: She wants to talk.

384
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: Good morning, Good morning.

385
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 4: So I did some reading about the town planning. I

386
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 4: am not the navigator, as we've established, so I.

387
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: Need you to interpret this and tell me if I'm right.

388
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 2: Okay, So have a look. Do you want me?

389
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 4: I want you to look at this email I sent

390
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 4: you in the middle of the night about town planning

391
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 4: in the early two thousands entire Okay, all right.

392
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 3: So this is the email you sent, which she sent

393
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 3: to me at on fairness, it was only ten past

394
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 3: eleven at night.

395
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 2: That's great.

396
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 3: And it's the one title Brimban Reserve Development Plan in two.

397
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 2: Thousand and five. Click click that link. So just click

398
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 2: on that link.

399
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So it's the Brimbin Nature Reserve Plan of

400
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 3: Management from the New South Wales National Parks and wild

401
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 3: Life Service from May two thousand and five. This is

402
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 3: what you were reading in the middle of the night

403
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 3: last night. Oh hang on, that's interesting. So there's a map.

404
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: There's a map.

405
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 2: There's a map of where we were yesterday. Isn't there

406
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 2: the Brimbin Picnic area?

407
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 1: Yeah?

408
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 8: And then.

409
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: This is addition to Brimban Nature Reserve.

410
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, when on it, it marks the old Port mcquarie Road,

411
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 3: which is what we were driving on as continuing across

412
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 3: the river, which is where we stopped yesterday and we

413
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 3: couldn't get across. But this shows that there was a

414
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 3: road there, Page seven, So Part three point five, two

415
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 3: wheel drive vehicle access to the reserve is available along

416
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 3: the old Port mcquarie Road, So that's what we drove along.

417
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 2: The road. Reserve of the old Port mcquarie.

418
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 3: Road continues east across Tommy Owens Creek towards Lansdowne, though

419
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 3: this section is overgrown and not suitable for vehicle access,

420
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 3: but it was.

421
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 2: The route of the old road. So when was Shirley

422
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 2: Masters discovered.

423
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: She went missing in two.

424
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 2: Thousand, two thousand?

425
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this documents from two thousand and five calling

426
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 4: that road untraffickable.

427
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: We don't know if it was untrafficable in two thousand.

428
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 3: No, you're right, but it shows that the road continued.

429
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 3: You can't do it now, but the Park Service took

430
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 3: it over in nineteen ninety nine, just before Shirley Masters

431
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:37,719
Speaker 3: goes missing.

432
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's quite possible at that point you could

433
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 2: still drive that road. I think that's it. Nina.

434
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 3: I think it shows there is an alleged connection between

435
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 3: Frank Abbot and the place Scherri Lee was discovered contained

436
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 3: in the witness statement Irish Northam gave to the William

437
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 3: Tyrell inquest. And there is another alleged connection there in

438
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 3: Iris's statement, But you have to look closely, blink and

439
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 3: you'd miss it because in her witness statement, Iris doesn't

440
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 3: actually mention Sherri Lee by name. Instead, she describes a

441
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 3: girl who went missing maybe five years after Margaret Cox's murder,

442
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 3: and says this girl's body was only found a few

443
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 3: years later on Brimbin Road and that she was about

444
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 3: fifteen or sixteen and her father was a man called

445
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 3: Rex Nolan.

446
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 5: The one I was talking to them about was Rex's daughter.

447
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 3: Years it's Nina who puts the clues together.

448
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: That's chery Lee masters A.

449
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, Sherrily was found in Brimbin Reserve, not Brimbin Road,

450
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 3: and she was seventeen, not fifteen or sixteen. But she

451
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 3: was Rex Nolan's daughter. When did you start thinking about

452
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 3: this other young woman who was found in that bit

453
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 3: of bush and maybe in connection to Frank.

454
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 5: Well any that reason, because he used to go out

455
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 5: around it why and with the connection that he knew

456
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 5: Rex and Karen.

457
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 3: But that that Frank knew Rex Shoally's father, and Karen

458
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 3: Shirly's stepmother.

459
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 5: And they worked at the markets.

460
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: This is new. It's not in Iris's witness statement.

461
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 5: Any connection that could be Frank worked at the markets.

462
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 3: John's River is the tiny town where Frank once lived

463
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 3: in the years before Sholy went missing. The town has

464
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 3: a market held on the second Saturday of each month

465
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 3: at the Johns River Community Hall, which is opposite the

466
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 3: house where Frank was living.

467
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 5: He helped at the markets out there where Rix and

468
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 5: Karen used to silster. He used to go to the

469
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 5: markets and he'd help help them set up things and

470
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 5: do a little odd jobs for them there.

471
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 3: So's parents he knew then.

472
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 2: And did you ever see them together? How do you

473
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 2: know the connection?

474
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 9: No?

475
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 5: I only know that Frank lived opposite the hall where

476
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 5: they had the markets. Frank used to help there just

477
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 5: about a month.

478
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: It was.

479
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 3: Other people from John's River tell us the same thing.

480
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 3: Frank was always at the markets where Vally's family were regulars.

481
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 3: That alone proves nothing. But here's what bothers me about it.

482
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 3: We found this connection me and Nina, not the police,

483
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 3: and it didn't take us long to do it. The

484
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 3: clues were right there. In the statement, Iris gave the

485
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,719
Speaker 3: inquest into William Tyrell's disappearance, which was signed by a

486
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 3: police detective, and Iris has previously told us this detective

487
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 3: promised to pass the information on to the Unsolved Homicide

488
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 3: Team for them to follow up, but Iris says she

489
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:31,959
Speaker 3: never heard back. We asked the New South Wales Police

490
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 3: what happened? Was this information ever passed on? But they

491
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 3: declined to answer. So we find our own.

492
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 2: Detective were still recording.

493
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 3: Our colleague Gary Jubilin, who used to be the lead

494
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 3: detective on the investigation into William's disappearance.

495
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 10: I left the investigation at the time when there was

496
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 10: certain lines of inquiry that hept the Frank Abbott.

497
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 3: Gary says he can't answer for what the police did

498
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 3: after he left the investigation.

499
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 10: And then, to my surprise, Frank Ebbott became the only

500
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 10: suspect in the William Tyrol matter.

501
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 3: Okay, Gary's making a point here. Frank was not the

502
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 3: only suspect in the William Tyrell investigation, but he was

503
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 3: a very prominent person of interest that the police were

504
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 3: clearly focused.

505
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 2: On at that point. But given how much attention Frank

506
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: was getting.

507
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 10: You'd be doing a deep diving to him and this

508
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 10: type of stuff based on that statement. You'd want to

509
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 10: have a look at that, because I would what's written

510
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 10: in the statement from Iris Northam, I would imagine that

511
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 10: when you're sitting here taking the statement, she's adding some

512
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 10: other bits and pieces to it.

513
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 2: When we sat down with her, we learned more than

514
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: was in her statement.

515
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 10: Yeah, if you're asking me how I would approach it.

516
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 10: If we're looking at Frank Abbott, which once I'm taken

517
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 10: off the investigation, if it has been run the way

518
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 10: an investigation should be run, there'd be briefings and that

519
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 10: certainly would be brought to the attention of the person

520
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 10: running the investigation. She said this, said that, Okay, we've

521
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 10: got to have a look at that. How do we

522
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 10: have a look at that, We look at the cases

523
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 10: we get that information in, and is Frank Abbitt involved

524
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 10: in that? I want to preface that with it's not

525
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 10: going to solve the William Tyrell matter. Like that doesn't

526
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 10: necessarily mean that he's involved in William Tyrell. But you'd

527
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 10: be looking as deep as deep as you can. You

528
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 10: want as much information. So I don't want to be

529
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,959
Speaker 10: critical of it because I just don't know the full circumstances.

530
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 10: I'm just looking at it from an investigative point of view.

531
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 10: I think I'm informed enough having led the investigation for

532
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 10: four years, know how we had to go through persons

533
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 10: of interest and you had to look at everything about

534
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 10: the person of interest. If someone's presented a statement from

535
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 10: sitting in a briefing room and being told this and

536
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 10: told that, Okay, well we're going to have a look

537
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:58,959
Speaker 10: at this, we've got to have a look at that.

538
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 10: Does it solve wi tyrol matter? Perhaps not. But if

539
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 10: we're looking at a person of interest, you've got to

540
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 10: look at them completely.

541
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 3: So you would have looked at these two cases. Yeah, yeah,

542
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,240
Speaker 3: Margaret Cox and very Masters.

543
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 10: Yeah, and knowing the way that the investigation was run.

544
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 10: If you're saying someone's a person of interest, you look

545
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 10: at absolutely everything about that person. And when you're looking

546
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 10: at the murder investigation, which Tyrrell is, there's enough there

547
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 10: in the way that you've relaid the information what you've

548
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 10: provided to me to think, yeah, it's worth looking at.

549
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 10: Coming back to Cheryl Lee Masters, yeah, if you knew

550
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 10: her father was associated with the markets around there, Yeah,

551
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 10: you'd have a look and you'd do it. As a

552
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 10: matter of course I would anyway.

553
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 3: We suspect the New South Wales police have not looked

554
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 3: closely enough the information about Shirley contained in Irish Northam's statement.

555
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 3: We suspect this because Nina tracks down Sheerly's brother, Tony Masters,

556
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 3: and he says he hasn't heard anything from the police

557
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:12,240
Speaker 3: in years.

558
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 9: Shirley was a very carefree, spirited, very outgoing person. She

559
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 9: had very say eachy feet. She never could seem to

560
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 9: stay in one place for too long. She was a

561
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 9: very kind person.

562
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 3: Tony has a kind face and a nervous energy. Sitting

563
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 3: on a park bench near his home in north West Sydney,

564
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 3: he tells Nina how his sister, Shery Lee grew.

565
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 9: Up tough with her slow development, like she was seventeen,

566
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 9: but probably in the mind of a thirteen or fourteen

567
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 9: year old child, so that's where she was at.

568
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 3: Sherri Lee lived in and out of foster care, always

569
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 3: seeming to fall through the gaps in the system.

570
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 7: You'll learn not to trust.

571
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:00,919
Speaker 9: Like if we have a saw the place, we'd run,

572
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 9: so I feel like the authorities weren't people that she

573
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 9: could turn to and trust, so she really had no one.

574
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 9: She had herself, and that I think kind of helped

575
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 9: a lot to her demise.

576
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 3: While still only in her mid teens, Sheerrily was living

577
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 3: on her own in an apartment, but under the watch

578
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 3: of the state government Department of Community Services, which has

579
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 3: since changed its name, but is the same department that

580
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 3: was later responsible for looking after three year old William Tyrrell,

581
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 3: who also disappeared.

582
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 9: I just feel like every possible system really let her down,

583
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 9: also let the whole family down.

584
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 3: It's easy to understand why Tony's family might feel this way,

585
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 3: he says. Sheerrily was last seen in the year two thousand,

586
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 3: when she told some friends in Taree she was going

587
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 3: to hitchhikes south.

588
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 9: It was pretty much her main mode of transportation. But

589
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 9: I don't think she really had money to pay for transports.

590
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:02,919
Speaker 7: So she just used to hear child.

591
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 3: Tony first heard his sister was missing in a phone call.

592
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 9: I got a phone call from the police saying, you know,

593
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 9: she's a missing person.

594
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: Did the place seem concerned?

595
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 7: Not overly?

596
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 9: They It was more of a I felt like the

597
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 9: phone the calls were just a duty like for them,

598
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 9: like a responsibility, like we have to notify somebody.

599
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: What were they doing that you're aware of?

600
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 6: To find her?

601
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 7: Not much.

602
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,720
Speaker 9: I don't even think they bothered to place the menican

603
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 9: they had with a previous lady in at the shopping

604
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 9: center near where I worked. Put aminican that was wearing

605
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 9: the same clothes as a young lady that disappeared.

606
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 3: If that sounds odd that Tony would talk about the

607
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 3: police not putting a mannekin of his sister in the

608
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 3: shopping center after she went missing, there's a reason. Four

609
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 3: years before before Cherri Lee was last seen in Tarree,

610
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 3: another woman went missing from the same small city. That

611
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 3: was Margaret Cox, who we talked about in the last episode,

612
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 3: and then the police put a mannequin of Margaret dressed

613
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 3: in the clothes she'd been wearing in the local shopping center,

614
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 3: hoping it would remind someone that they'd seen her on

615
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 3: that day.

616
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 9: I used to work at Kamar in Tari and I

617
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 9: was about fifteen. I just used to walk past the

618
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 9: mannequin every day going into work.

619
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 3: Chery Lee would also have sent that mannequin, according to Tony.

620
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 9: Yeah, I actually think one time I even sat down

621
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 9: near that manniquin.

622
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 3: So when Cherrily went missing, Tony wondered where's her mannequin?

623
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 3: Were the police just not so interested in his sister.

624
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 3: Nina and I have spoken to the cop who oversaw

625
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 3: the detectives working in tar in two thousand. He says

626
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 3: he does not remember Cherally's disappearance being reported and six

627
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 3: years passed. In two thousand and six, a group of

628
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 3: soldiers were on an exercise in the state forest just

629
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 3: north of Taree when they discovered human remains and the

630
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 3: police got back in touch with Tony.

631
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,760
Speaker 9: They told me that they had actually found some remains

632
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 9: and they wanted DNA testing.

633
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 3: It was two more years, two thousand and eight before

634
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 3: the DNA tests finally identified the body as Shery Lee.

635
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 3: Finally it seemed the police were doing something.

636
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 9: They said that there was a special task force that

637
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 9: they'd been set up to investigate Shiryly's murder.

638
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 7: I think I met them maybe twice.

639
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 9: Over the toll duration, but I invited them to Shirly's memorial,

640
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 9: but they didn't come. I spoke with them once after that,

641
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 9: and they just said that it was still an ongoing investigation,

642
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 9: and therefore they can't talk about anything.

643
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:06,919
Speaker 7: And that was pretty much.

644
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 9: I made numerous phone calls to them, who always took

645
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 9: forever to get phone calls returned. So they couldn't tell

646
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 9: us really any anything or any possible leads or anything.

647
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 9: They couldn't tell us anyone's name, and they couldn't tell

648
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 9: us anything at all.

649
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 7: So yeah, we really didn't get anything.

650
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 3: From them, unbelievably. Tony says his family were never even

651
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:38,720
Speaker 3: told the results of the autopsy, saying how Shaly died.

652
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 9: There was literally nothing explained the extent of what Winne

653
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 9: was a shallow grave.

654
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 2: A shallow grave.

655
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 3: Tony says he almost hoped his sister had died in

656
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 3: an accident.

657
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 9: Maybe she got hit by a car or something while

658
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 9: hitch hiking, because you know, sometimes hard to see people

659
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 9: of highways if it's raining and stuff.

660
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 3: That wouldn't be so bad, He says. At least that way,

661
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 3: very Lee might not have suffered.

662
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 9: And when we questioned the police, they're like, we can't

663
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 9: tell you anything. Well, they said that it definitely was

664
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 9: a homicide.

665
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 7: She had actually been murdered.

666
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 3: In the end, it was the funeral director, not the police.

667
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 3: Detectives who explained that very Lee had suffered a massive

668
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 3: head injury.

669
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 9: She showed us to the back of Shirley's skull and

670
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 9: said that her professional opinion was that Shirley had actually

671
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 9: taken something to the back of the head, which would

672
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 9: have been enough.

673
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 2: To kill her.

674
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how difficult that must have all been

675
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: to go through.

676
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 7: I think I just felt really sorry for her.

677
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 3: Then things got worse. Very Lee's family were told her

678
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 3: remains were missing.

679
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: How long could I missing?

680
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 3: For probably a couple of years.

681
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 7: It took them a while to get her back to us.

682
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: Years.

683
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was a long time.

684
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: How do you misplace something that important?

685
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 9: I think she was just I think it because they

686
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 9: have a whole lot of unsolved crimes and just evidence

687
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 9: in storage, and they maybe mislabeled it, or the box

688
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 9: was behind another box, or maybe their short on staff

689
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 9: that really didn't want to take the time to look.

690
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 9: We were never really given a reason why, just that

691
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 9: she was misplaced.

692
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 7: So and they would they would get her to us

693
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 7: as soon.

694
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 2: As they could.

695
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 3: It wasn't soon enough, though, Cherly's father, Rex Nolan, died

696
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 3: before his daughter's remains were returned to the family.

697
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 9: So he actually never got to bury her.

698
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 3: With her murder still unsolved, the family held a memorial.

699
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 9: Service and the police didn't come to it, even though

700
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 9: they were invited, and it was a big turnout, like

701
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 9: a lot of people from Tire were there. We thought

702
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 9: they could come and maybe, you know, hear some stories

703
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 9: about our they might hear something that matches up with

704
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 9: something they already had, I thought, But they didn't bother coming,

705
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 9: and yeah, we didn't really hear much from them over

706
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 9: that whole period.

707
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 3: By this time there had been an inquest, so a

708
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 3: formal investigation into how Shirrily died, but Tony says his

709
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 3: family were not invited to take part and the inquest

710
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 3: findings are easily the most upsetting of any that I've

711
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 3: seen in almost twenty years of reporting on crime.

712
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 4: Are you okay if I read this?

713
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 7: Let of course yes.

714
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 4: So it's as in quest into the death of Sharyli Masters,

715
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 4: I make the following finding. I find that the deceased

716
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 4: Cheryly Master they've spelt her name wrong. Between October nineteen

717
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 4: ninety five and October two thousand and five, at an

718
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,919
Speaker 4: unknown place in the state of New South Wales, died

719
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 4: of an undeterminable cause in circumstances that I've also not

720
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 4: been able to determine.

721
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 9: Yeah, that pretty much sounds like the whole you know,

722
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 9: we don't really know, and that they one would misspell

723
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 9: her name, and in fact, legally her name isn't Masters,

724
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 9: it's actually Nolan. And my father was really upset because

725
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 9: her name was never legally changed to Masters and on

726
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 9: her grave zone it's hyphen eight. We actually have Masters Nolan.

727
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 9: So the fact that they'd never even used her actual.

728
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 4: Legal name in a coronial finding.

729
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 9: In the coronial finding and there was no reference to it,

730
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 9: but also to the fact that the dates were so

731
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 9: broad they didn't even mention when she was actually discovered.

732
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I noticed that the earliest date there is

733
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety five. She was definitely seen alive post nineteen

734
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 4: ninety five, right.

735
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, she was definitely seen alive.

736
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 9: I had seen her in ninety eight, ninety nine, and

737
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 9: she'd been out to Tamworth to see our mom and

738
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 9: our little sisters out there, and she had actually been

739
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 9: dating a glade. His name was Patrick, So she had

740
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 9: actually been seen And I just don't think the police

741
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,720
Speaker 9: had bothered to try to track any of these people

742
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 9: down interview any of these people, and if they did,

743
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 9: they made no reference of it to me at all.

744
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 4: So were you able to submit anything for the inquest?

745
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 9: I don't believe I was actually asked to submit anything

746
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 9: for the inquest. I didn't think that was something you

747
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 9: could do, So no, I don't think I did.

748
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 3: Families can very much provide information to an inquest, and

749
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 3: most inquests I've seen, the grieving family is right at

750
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 3: the heart of the process. The fact Tony wasn't told

751
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:45,479
Speaker 3: that his family could be appause me. And then when

752
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 3: we asked the coroner's court to see the records from

753
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 3: the inquest into Cherly's death, we were told, quote, archives

754
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 3: have not had any luck finding this file after numerous searches,

755
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 3: meaning they can't find the file of she Rely's inquest.

756
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 3: They've lost it after somehow also misplacing Sheerly's body. How

757
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 3: does that happen with a murder victim who leaves these

758
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 3: gaps in the system.

759
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 9: Yeah, it just still baffled me that the police didn't treat.

760
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 7: It a little bit more with more urgency in case

761
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 7: the killer was still out there, still killing people.

762
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,439
Speaker 3: Tony says he doesn't know who if anyone is now

763
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 3: responsible for catching his sister's killer.

764
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 9: No, just an unsole murder mystery, just like so many

765
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 9: other cases, Like there's a lot and I just feel

766
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 9: like Shirlie's now just another number, you know, on someone's

767
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 9: desk or locked away in a room that nobody bothers

768
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:48,800
Speaker 9: to go into anymore.

769
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 3: Nina asks if anyone from the police has recently contacted Tony.

770
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 9: No, I haven't heard from the police for decades.

771
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 3: Now, meaning it is Nina who first tells Tony about

772
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 3: Iris Northam's evidence to the William Tyrell Inquest, which mentions

773
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 3: his sister's disappearance.

774
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 4: Okay, so this is the statement of a woman named

775
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 4: Iris Northam that she made to the William Tyrell inquest

776
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 4: about a person of interest called Frank Abbott.

777
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 3: Nina shows Tony the part of Iris's statement that talks

778
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 3: about his dad.

779
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,800
Speaker 1: Rex, So I'll show you where you can go from.

780
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 3: And tells him what Iris told us about Rex and

781
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 3: Frank both working at the Johns River Markets market.

782
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 9: Yeah, so Rex and Karen they used to like go

783
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,800
Speaker 9: to all the markets. Oh, bar Turrey definitely in John's

784
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 9: River was one of the areas that they would go to.

785
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 4: Would Serlee have been to those markets with them.

786
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 7: Shirrely may have, but I can't say definitely.

787
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,399
Speaker 3: We don't know exactly where Sheerly was living at the time,

788
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 3: whether she even was living with Rex or Karen, so

789
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 3: it's hard to know how much time they spent together.

790
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:09,720
Speaker 3: But even if there's a possibility, Tony thinks the police

791
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 3: should have told him about Iris Northam's evidence.

792
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 7: I feel a bit annoyed. I think I feel annoyed

793
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:18,760
Speaker 7: that people.

794
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 9: Knew these I feel a bit I think disappointed that

795
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 9: people have actually given information to the police and they

796
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 9: haven't passed that along.

797
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 3: So that's now three unsolved murders. Helen Harrison where Frank

798
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 3: Abbot was found not guilty, Margaret Cox who we talked

799
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,919
Speaker 3: about in the last episode, and Sherri Lee. In all

800
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 3: three cases, new evidence has come to light at the

801
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 3: inquest into William Till's disappearance, but the victims' families and

802
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,439
Speaker 3: the potential witnesses that we've spoken to, none of them

803
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 3: have been contacted by the New South Wales Police.

804
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 9: You think you would at least inquire and ask around

805
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 9: and do a little bit of digging.

806
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:13,240
Speaker 7: I kind of feel like when when people go missing.

807
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 9: Too many people are just you know, a picture on

808
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 9: the side of a milk carton, and that's so detached.

809
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 9: But when you actually start thinking of them, oh, this

810
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 9: is actually somebody that you know, used to play hopscotch

811
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 9: and skip.

812
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 7: And like playing with dolls and loved animals.

813
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 9: And if people actually got to see that this was

814
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 9: a person and not just you know, some you know,

815
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 9: kind of wild teenager that deserve what she got, it'd

816
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 9: be different because really, like people don't deserve it.

817
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,879
Speaker 3: Nobody deserves what happened to Tony's sister, Shery Lee, who

818
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 3: was lost and whose murderer has not been brought to justice.

819
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 3: But as Nina and I discover, there are other unsolved

820
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 3: murders of women and children up here on the New

821
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:13,919
Speaker 3: South Wales North coast. In fact, there are dozens of them.

822
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 3: So I've taken pages out of a road atlas and

823
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 3: stuck them on the wall. So we've got a map

824
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 3: of the whole north Coast in New South Wales, all

825
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 3: the way up to the Queensland border. The map reaches

826
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 3: almost floor to ceiling, and it looks like a long way,

827
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 3: but it's what it's a day's drive really isn't it

828
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 3: a long day's drive?

829
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:35,839
Speaker 2: But what I want to.

830
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:40,760
Speaker 3: Do is try to get a sense of the number

831
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 3: of unsolved murders and missing people on this one stretcher coast.

832
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 3: So we've got a list, and I've got some sticky labels,

833
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 3: and I thought we'd literally just stick an arrow on

834
00:50:55,200 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 3: the map for each of these unsolved murders or missing persons. Okay,

835
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 3: So Noarel Cox disappears from Grafton.

836
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 4: Nineteen seventy seven, seventy seven.

837
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 3: Next up, Joy Hodgkins and Annie Tominak. They either go

838
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 3: missing or their bodies are found in Mayfield.

839
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 4: You want two or ones?

840
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 2: They cut two.

841
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 3: It takes Nina and I an hour to work through

842
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 3: the list of missing and unsolved murder victims. I've actually

843
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 3: noticed that both our houses are on here. There's you

844
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 3: at the bottom and there's me just there. We got

845
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 3: the list of names from Questions and Answers in the

846
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 3: New South Wales State Parliament same year. Nineteen seventy eight.

847
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 3: Leanne Goodall last scene outside the Star Hotel in Newcastle,

848
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:55,240
Speaker 3: and this information comes from the police themselves. Nineteen seventy nine.

849
00:51:55,400 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 3: Robin Hickey disappears from Belmont same year Amanda Robinson disappear

850
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:06,240
Speaker 3: from Swansea, and Adriansen and Caroline dow Kingscliff.

851
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 4: Are still in the seventies, We're.

852
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 2: Still in the same year.

853
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 3: Through the seventies, eighties, nineties, two thousands and twenty ten's

854
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 3: the names just keep on coming. Alfried Sirich, Amanda Zaliz

855
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 3: Hazel Fiddler, Elizabeth Dixon, Susan Mary Smith.

856
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 2: And slowly we start noticing patterns.

857
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 3: There's five in a group just around Newcastle and south.

858
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 3: Then we've actually got three in Bowerville, so Evelyn green Up,

859
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 3: Collen Walker Craig and Clinton Speedy Duroux.

860
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: In nineteen nineties yeh.

861
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 3: Nineteen nineteen, nineteen ninety one, but over six months, and

862
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 3: that we know almost certainly is a serial killer, all right.

863
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:02,760
Speaker 3: And then we've got another for nineteen Ninetynica Rigney, Hazel

864
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 3: Christian nineteen ninety one, nineteen ninety two, Ada Collins in Swansea.

865
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 2: So that's just outside Newcastle. Again, God, there's so many

866
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 2: of them in.

867
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,800
Speaker 4: Newcastle actually getting hard to read the map.

868
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:23,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're not saying Frank Abbott has any link to

869
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:24,800
Speaker 3: any of these cases.

870
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 4: Some of these in the nineties are the ones that

871
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 4: they were looking at for grenakilla Is, and they thought they.

872
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 3: Were all possible victims of another known serial killer. In fact,

873
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,720
Speaker 3: we're saying there is no link between Frank and almost

874
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 3: all of them, Bromwin, Winfield, Lesson Newstead and Melissa Astill.

875
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 3: It's just there are so many unsolved cases. Nineteen ninety four,

876
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 3: Gordana Kotevski disappears from Charlestown, Melissa Hunts, you know, Meghan Pitt,

877
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 3: Margaret Howlett, Angela Foley in Hinckley, Margaret Cox murdered in Taree.

878
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,800
Speaker 3: And when you see them all together on the wall

879
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 3: in front of you, it's a lot to get your

880
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 3: head around. Lee Ellen Stace murdered in Yamber, Marian Barter,

881
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 3: Lois Roberts.

882
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 4: Bernadette Donaldson, Elizabeth Wright, Lisa ver Ignola from Hexham.

883
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 3: The police have looked at connections between some of these

884
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 3: unsolved cases. In nineteen ninety eight, a task force was

885
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,720
Speaker 3: set up to look at potential links between ten missing

886
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 3: people and the backpacker killer Ivan Malatt.

887
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 4: Just flag Malat's arrested here.

888
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 2: Nineteen ninety four. Yeah, but the murders continue.

889
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 4: Yeah.

890
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 3: Other police investigations also looked for links between some of

891
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 3: the cases, and there was a quote in one of

892
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 3: the papers. We've had one young woman murdered at a

893
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 3: truck stop barely an hour away, so it would be

894
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 3: stupid to dismiss the possibility of the same person could

895
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 3: have struck again. So the lead detective. Both women were young,

896
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 3: blonde and hitchhiking alone. Both disappear from busy roads, and

897
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 3: there's a possible link to the Pacific Highway. And then

898
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 3: there's Task Force METS, which is a police investigation looking

899
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 3: at the disappearance and the murder of Lois Roberts, but

900
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 3: it's reported as also looking at the deaths of Leel

901
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 3: and Stace, Nicka Hinckley, and Margaret Cox. But few of

902
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 3: these police investigations are successful, and the names just keep

903
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 3: on coming, Susan Kay and Joanne Teterin, and then Celeste

904
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 3: Gilbert and Shirley Masters, Tyer Colwell or Taya Colwell, Roonder Bickley,

905
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 3: Lucy MacDonald, Margaret god two thousand and three, Rose Howell

906
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 3: disappears from Bellinger two thousand and four, Kylie Ann shafferd

907
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:12,280
Speaker 3: Two thousand and five, Rosalin Ray, Simone Strobel, Amanda Odell

908
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 3: murdered in Kempsey, Danika Dixon Lismore, third in Lismore two

909
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 3: thousand and eight, Stacey mcmore two thousand and nine, Jasmine

910
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 3: Morris disappears from Grafton, and the last one on this

911
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 3: list is Ellen Wilson, who disappears from Ballina in twenty fifteen.

912
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:48,959
Speaker 2: Got it? So that's it? What do you think?

913
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 4: It's shocking to look at? Even more so when I

914
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 4: remember that these aren't just a list of murders that

915
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 4: have happened. These are just the unsolved murders.

916
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 3: So why are all these cases unsolved? Nina and I

917
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 3: go back and read through some of the inquest findings

918
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 3: that have looked at some of these cases, and they

919
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 3: are utterly damning of the initial police investigations. One coroner

920
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 3: talks about major failure. Another describes a violent death wrongly

921
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 3: written off by police as an accident. They talk about

922
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 3: people who were reported missing who are just not properly investigated,

923
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 3: evidence that is lost, witnesses who are not taken seriously,

924
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 3: and by the time other detectives do go back and

925
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 3: pick up some of these cases, years have passed, those

926
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 3: witnesses have grown old or died and more records have

927
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 3: gone missing, meaning these missing or murdered people like Cherry

928
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 3: Lee keep falling through the gaps.

929
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 6: All right, it's almost one am, and I am really,

930
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 6: really tired.

931
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 3: Both Nina and I are trouble by what we've discovered.

932
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 6: I'd like to be asleep, but my head is my

933
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 6: head is spinning trying to sort of digest all of

934
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 6: the information that we got today. And there's just one

935
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 6: point that's kind of stuck out to me that I

936
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 6: just want to document, So I'm documenting it here.

937
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 2: Okay, So.

938
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 6: We know that there are a lot of unsolved murders

939
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 6: on the North Coast, and there's been a lot of

940
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 6: talk of them being linked or you know, serial killers,

941
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 6: and there's been talking of Malatt, there's been talk of others,

942
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 6: real gulars that could have operated in the area, and

943
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 6: there's been task forces during that time that have looked

944
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 6: at various links. And we know that but two of

945
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 6: those women were missing. Hirtare nineteen ninety six, Margaret is murdered.

946
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 4: Four years after that, Sheryl Lee Masters goes missing. Those

947
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 4: women were found or with head injuries, and all this

948
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 4: rambling is just for me to.

949
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 6: Say, if you're looking at all these unsolved cases, and

950
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 6: you're the police, you're and you're looking at linking cases

951
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 6: and potential links. Why has no task force publicly looked

952
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 6: at those cases? Okay, I'm going to bed.

953
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: I've got that out of my system.

954
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 6: Good night.

955
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 3: The next morning, Nina and I get ready to leave

956
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 3: the North Coast. This might be our last visit to Kendall.

957
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 3: You know, I've been coming here for ten years. But

958
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 3: before we do leave, there's one last place we both

959
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 3: want to go to, and there's the house, the house

960
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 3: where all this started, where three year old William Tyrrell

961
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 3: is last known to have been alive because of a

962
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 3: photograph taken at nine thirty seven am on the twelfth

963
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 3: of September twenty fourteen. So we're sitting outside the house

964
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 3: where William tool was reported missing. There's a gray sky,

965
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 3: crowded trees on either side, the same silence you always

966
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 3: hear on this road. There's nobody moving, no noise, and

967
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 3: in the past ten years, more than ten years now,

968
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 3: it's like everything has changed and nothing has changed. The

969
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 3: people who live in this house weren't the people who

970
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 3: lived in that house then. Plenty of people in this

971
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 3: street have gone, some of them because of what happened,

972
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 3: And yet the street is almost identical to the first

973
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 3: time I came here, just after William was reported missing. God,

974
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 3: it feels quite oppressive being here.

975
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: I was just looking at you and looking at how

976
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 1: much and more tired.

977
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 2: You are, more tired than.

978
01:01:58,440 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 1: The last time we were here.

979
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 2: Isn't that obvious?

980
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do feel tired, and I feel that there's

981
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 3: too much of this in my head now, like last

982
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 3: night as I went to sleep. But at the point

983
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 3: I say, don't think about William Tyrell and don't think

984
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 3: about Frank Abbott. And I'm not even close to the

985
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 3: center of this. I'm not one of those people actually

986
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 3: directly affected by it. But I do feel tired. But

987
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 3: there is one thing which we haven't done, one place

988
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 3: we haven't been and which we know that the police

989
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 3: haven't searched.

990
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 11: And.

991
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 3: That's the bird tree where we've been told that William's

992
01:02:54,800 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 3: body was buried. But look, we've got no reason to

993
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 3: think it's true. It's a second hand account that Frank

994
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:13,160
Speaker 3: Abbot's brother told someone, and when we spoke to that person,

995
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 3: they said they didn't remember.

996
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 2: But still.

997
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 3: It is the one place we haven't been and if

998
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 3: we're going to look for answers to what happened, I

999
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 3: think we do have to go there, so I think

1000
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 3: we should go.

1001
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 11: All right.

1002
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,000
Speaker 3: So if we start driving here from outside the house

1003
01:03:56,040 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 3: where William was reported missing, he drives down.

1004
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 2: Beniruin drive.

1005
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 3: And here at the bottom you've got a choice of

1006
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 3: left or right, and left takes you to Kendall, which

1007
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 3: is the town. But if you want to get away,

1008
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 3: you choose right, which takes you here. This is Batar

1009
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 3: Creek Road, single lane, no paint on the road, no

1010
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 3: street lights. It feels like you're driving deep into the forest.

1011
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:43,439
Speaker 3: And here's the crossroads where the police most recently were

1012
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 3: alleging that William's foster mother disposed of his body, despite

1013
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 3: the fact there's no evidence she even went there that

1014
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 3: morning and when they searched it they found nothing. And

1015
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 3: the police haven't been back since that's search, which was

1016
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 3: what now four years. Country opens up a little and

1017
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 3: there's horses, a couple of really isolated buildings. So far,

1018
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 3: there's been two turnings, both of them onto very small roads.

1019
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 1: Haven't seen any other cars.

1020
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:37,480
Speaker 2: I haven't seen any people. But here.

1021
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 3: We turn off the bitchermen onto I mean there's kind

1022
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 3: of a road. Now it's very narrow, and now we're

1023
01:05:55,240 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 3: on dirt, so again we're on the back. If you

1024
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 3: thought it was isolated before, now the forest is really

1025
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 3: crowding in, reaching into the road on either side, and

1026
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 3: the trees are hanging right over the road, so it's dark.

1027
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 2: There's no turning around on the road. There's no going back.

1028
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:30,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, had the same feeling of about driving brim And road.

1029
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 3: That was where Cheverley Masters was found, wasn't it. And

1030
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 3: again on the road out to where Margaret Cox's clothes

1031
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:49,080
Speaker 3: were found, there's these thin dirt roads out when no

1032
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 3: one's looking.

1033
01:06:57,040 --> 01:06:57,160
Speaker 2: Up.

1034
01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:01,760
Speaker 3: Until this point we've been following Google Maps, but that's

1035
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 3: now lost us.

1036
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 2: There's just no reception here.

1037
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 3: There's a couple of really small dirt tracks leading off

1038
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:16,640
Speaker 3: this dirt tracks a sign for the bird tree for kilometers.

1039
01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:22,520
Speaker 3: I love the fact I'm indicating like there's anyone to

1040
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 3: see it. And we're getting higher now. Just through the

1041
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:34,480
Speaker 3: few breaks in the trees you can see we've come

1042
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 3: right almost to the top of this.

1043
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:38,080
Speaker 11: Well.

1044
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 2: I guess it's a mountain. It's Middle Brother Mountain. Okay,

1045
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 2: so now do we go here? It looks like it

1046
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 2: all up.

1047
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:54,800
Speaker 3: It takes less than twenty minutes to drive from the

1048
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:59,760
Speaker 3: house where William was reported missing to the bird tree.

1049
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 2: I feel actually like my skin's crawling. I think it's

1050
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 2: the forest.

1051
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 1: It's so dense, the groundcover is so thick.

1052
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 3: I remember flying in the first time I came up

1053
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:20,720
Speaker 3: here for this, and looking out of the plane and

1054
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 3: looking down at the dark forest and these pools of

1055
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:29,320
Speaker 3: black water, and just thinking, if William is lost in there,

1056
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 3: it's an almost no, it's not impossible, like he has

1057
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:37,959
Speaker 3: to be found, and we do have to find answers.

1058
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 2: Come on, let's go.

1059
01:08:42,800 --> 01:09:00,120
Speaker 11: And find the bird tree.

1060
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:03,839
Speaker 2: There's a picnic table and a map.

1061
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 3: With the that tree that might be the bird tree.

1062
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:12,640
Speaker 2: See, people have walked.

1063
01:09:12,320 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 3: Around the outside of it. There's like a faint path

1064
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 3: walking around it. It must be four or five meters

1065
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:30,320
Speaker 3: across at the base. It's enormous.

1066
01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 2: The bush is so thick.

1067
01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 3: If you're going walking out onto it, you're gonna be

1068
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 3: walking on a dense mass of rotting leaves and branches

1069
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 3: and bark. You'd only have to force your way out

1070
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:51,000
Speaker 3: into that for ten fifteen meters, and anything you left

1071
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 3: there will not be found unless the police would have

1072
01:09:57,479 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 3: come out in force on the kind of scale we've

1073
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:04,599
Speaker 3: seen them do before more than once in William's case,

1074
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 3: and just strip everything away.

1075
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 2: So they can do it.

1076
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 3: Nina and I start walking out into the forest. I

1077
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:21,240
Speaker 3: reckon that way, even though I don't think we'll find anything.

1078
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:24,440
Speaker 1: Round is just stick with wet leaves.

1079
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:28,840
Speaker 3: And I don't think there's even anything to be found here.

1080
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 3: But having come this far, imagine if we didn't at

1081
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 3: least try, we kind of have to. Nina and I

1082
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 3: get separated in the forest, lost in our own thoughts,

1083
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 3: and it takes a while before we find each other.

1084
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 2: Are you doing.

1085
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:10,800
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1086
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 3: I went out and I found a footpath that isn't

1087
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 3: marked on the maps, and I followed it, and it

1088
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 3: takes you to another one of these huge black butt trees,

1089
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 3: but this one, the trunk's been hollowed out at the

1090
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:27,439
Speaker 3: bottom and you can go inside, and inside there's this

1091
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:32,000
Speaker 3: great pile of earth, almost like it's been dug up,

1092
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:37,120
Speaker 3: and you can see termites are building spires up out

1093
01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:43,240
Speaker 3: of it. And then the path goes on and it

1094
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:48,240
Speaker 3: turns out this forest is riddled with them, completely unmarked footpaths.

1095
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:52,599
Speaker 3: And I followed two now, and I have no idea

1096
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:56,080
Speaker 3: where they take you. But the one thing I do

1097
01:11:56,240 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 3: know is that if you wanted to hide something, I

1098
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:11,759
Speaker 3: can think of no better place. I try showing Nina

1099
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:14,599
Speaker 3: where I was looking in the forest, so that fort

1100
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,519
Speaker 3: path isn't marked on the maps, but that's not the

1101
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 3: one I ended up on. We stop at another of

1102
01:12:24,120 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 3: those giant trees. This tree is so big, and inside

1103
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:33,520
Speaker 3: the trunk it's been burnt out, maybe by a bushfire,

1104
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 3: but it's so big.

1105
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 2: I can stand inside.

1106
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:42,559
Speaker 3: It and you could fit one fifteen people in here.

1107
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 3: And I look up and I cannot see.

1108
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:52,439
Speaker 2: The top. It's just blackness.

1109
01:12:55,960 --> 01:13:01,040
Speaker 11: I am.

1110
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:07,200
Speaker 3: I think I actually feel sick. I think we came

1111
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 3: out when we started this. We were looking at the

1112
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:15,879
Speaker 3: investigation into a missing child, and we've found child abuse

1113
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 3: and unsolved murders and broken lives and broken families. And

1114
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 3: I think I don't have I think we're all human.

1115
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:35,599
Speaker 3: I don't think we have the ability to deal with

1116
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 3: this much.

1117
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:39,639
Speaker 11: Horror.

1118
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:45,080
Speaker 3: But that's what the disappearance of William Tyrrell has led to,

1119
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:50,599
Speaker 3: is that horror, particularly for those people who knew him

1120
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:59,719
Speaker 3: and loved him and now live with it. We've been

1121
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 3: looking for answers since the inquest finished, and we've only

1122
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 3: got questions just with Frank Abbott. So much time has passed,

1123
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:14,240
Speaker 3: and the people with the answers to those questions, so

1124
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:17,640
Speaker 3: many of them are dead. There's Frank's mum and his

1125
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:21,720
Speaker 3: dad and his brother Ted, all of them alibi witnesses

1126
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:24,479
Speaker 3: when he was put on trial for the murder of

1127
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:29,599
Speaker 3: Helen Harrison. There's Frank's brother Bluie, who is the person

1128
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 3: who apparently said that William was here near.

1129
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:37,839
Speaker 2: The bird tree.

1130
01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 3: There's the prison informant who gave evidence against Frank at

1131
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 3: his trial, all dead. There's nol Snter and Dooley Iris's

1132
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:52,960
Speaker 3: husband who they're still with us, but they're old and

1133
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 3: they're no longer able to give evidence. And we know

1134
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 3: that the police failed to follow up on two of

1135
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:05,320
Speaker 3: those witnesses, Frank's wife's sister and her cousin back in

1136
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:08,840
Speaker 3: the seventies when they came forward. But the bigger question

1137
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:12,400
Speaker 3: and the question for right now, is whether the police

1138
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:16,320
Speaker 3: have followed up the evidence about Frank that has come

1139
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:22,280
Speaker 3: up at the William Tyrell inquest, and from what we've seen,

1140
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:28,120
Speaker 3: they haven't. When we looked at all those unsolved murders

1141
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:32,519
Speaker 3: up the North Coast. I asked the police about them,

1142
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:35,160
Speaker 3: and they sent us a written statement that says there

1143
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:38,920
Speaker 3: is no evidence to indicate a common offender was responsible

1144
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 3: for the disappearances. So they're saying there's no serial killer.

1145
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:50,080
Speaker 3: And then I thought about that, and I thought, actually,

1146
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:55,519
Speaker 3: that's not entirely true, because I know the police have

1147
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:58,760
Speaker 3: argued in court because I was there, that three of

1148
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:03,639
Speaker 3: those unsolved murders were committed by one offender, a serial killer.

1149
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:07,760
Speaker 3: And I know from the inquest that the police do

1150
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:13,120
Speaker 3: suspect that some of those murders were committed by Ivan Malatt,

1151
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:17,760
Speaker 3: another serial killer. And we know the police also suspects

1152
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:20,280
Speaker 3: some of those murders may have been committed by a

1153
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:24,680
Speaker 3: third convicted serial killer, the granny killer. So if the

1154
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:29,639
Speaker 3: police do accept that there may be three serial killers

1155
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 3: who've committed some of these dozens of unsolved murders, and

1156
01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:40,280
Speaker 3: the question is, will the police accept that there may

1157
01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:48,639
Speaker 3: be another killer out there who's not been convicted. Will

1158
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:55,360
Speaker 3: the police investigate? And if not, all of these murdered

1159
01:16:55,400 --> 01:17:03,080
Speaker 3: women and children, all of those families william risk being forgotten.

1160
01:17:08,280 --> 01:17:08,559
Speaker 2: And I.

1161
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 3: I feel pretty sick at that thought, how do you feel?

1162
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 1: You feel like I might cry?

1163
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:29,040
Speaker 2: Don't cry?

1164
01:17:31,560 --> 01:17:37,720
Speaker 3: Hey, you know what, you couldn't have done anymore. You've

1165
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:40,479
Speaker 3: done so much more than we ever set out to do,

1166
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:45,160
Speaker 3: and more than I ever expected you to do, and

1167
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:46,599
Speaker 3: for a long time, more than.

1168
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:47,599
Speaker 2: I knew you were doing.

1169
01:17:48,360 --> 01:18:08,400
Speaker 8: You couldn't have done anymore. And now the rain comes, we.

1170
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:15,240
Speaker 2: Should go scat.

1171
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:34,360
Speaker 3: There is a PostScript to this episode. Back at the

1172
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:37,880
Speaker 3: start of this series, I talked about the sheer number

1173
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:41,720
Speaker 3: of lives that have been caught up and damaged by

1174
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:47,719
Speaker 3: the police investigation into William Tyrrell's disappearance, talking about family

1175
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:52,880
Speaker 3: members and witnesses, those wrongly put under suspicion and arrested,

1176
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 3: even charged, and then their families. I'm tempted to add

1177
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:04,719
Speaker 3: to that number the families of Helen Harrison, Margaret Cox,

1178
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:08,799
Speaker 3: and Sherrily Masters, who now have to come to terms

1179
01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:12,880
Speaker 3: with the fact that the police and the inquest into

1180
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:18,920
Speaker 3: William's disappearance received new alleged information about their deaths and

1181
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:24,760
Speaker 3: did not even contact either the witnesses or these women's families.

1182
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:29,920
Speaker 3: After we spoke to one of those relatives, Sheerly's brother,

1183
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:35,559
Speaker 3: Tony Masters, he called police asking who's now handling his

1184
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:40,200
Speaker 3: sister's murder and if he could have an update. That

1185
01:19:40,439 --> 01:19:44,280
Speaker 3: was more than two months ago and as of this morning,

1186
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:52,640
Speaker 3: Tony has never heard back. But it doesn't have to

1187
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:57,880
Speaker 3: end there. After ten years in which the New South

1188
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:01,920
Speaker 3: Wales Police Force has failed to find William Tyrrell, this

1189
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:06,960
Speaker 3: may be a part of his legacy that this alleged

1190
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:11,840
Speaker 3: evidence has been uncovered and through this podcast it has

1191
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:16,639
Speaker 3: been made public. It's now up to the police if

1192
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:49,240
Speaker 3: and how they decide to act. A lot of different

1193
01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:52,519
Speaker 3: people have been involved in making this series. Among them,

1194
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:56,080
Speaker 3: the executive producer is Nina Young. The sound design was

1195
01:20:56,120 --> 01:21:00,880
Speaker 3: by Tiffany Dimmack. The producers have been Emily Pigeon, Nicholas Adams,

1196
01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:05,800
Speaker 3: Jazz Bar, Phoebe Zakowski Wallace and Tabby Wilson. Research by

1197
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:10,120
Speaker 3: Adan Patrick, original music by Rory O'Connor. Our lawyer is

1198
01:21:10,120 --> 01:21:13,639
Speaker 3: Stephen Coombs. The editor at news dot com dot Au

1199
01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:14,799
Speaker 3: is Kerry Warren.

1200
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:16,360
Speaker 2: I'm Dan Box