1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: From the newsroom. Our news still come. 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 2: Today you gooday there, I'm Andrew Bucklow in my word, 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 2: do we have some interesting yarns online for you todaynews 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 2: dot com dot AU. I bet you just thought to yourself, 5 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 2: did he say yarns? Yes, yes I did. Fun fact 6 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 2: journalists in newsrooms refer to their stories as yarns. Maybe 7 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 2: it's not that fun, but it's a fact. Nonetheless. Right now, 8 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 2: we've got a yarn online about a new work trend 9 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: called task masking. One of our editors, Charlotte Willis, explained 10 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 2: what it was in our morning meeting earlier. 11 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 3: Basically people doing performative things in the office to trendle 12 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 3: busy without actually being productive. 13 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 2: Yes, I have definitely been guilty of that. Our sports 14 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 2: editor Joey also teased an interview we've got coming with 15 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 2: an NRL legend. Also got an explicit interview with Craig 16 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 2: Bellamy about his news documentary about all his coaching secrets. 17 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 2: And of course we've also got a team of reporters 18 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 2: over in Europe filing yarns on Pope Francis's health. He's 19 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: not in a good way at all. He's been in 20 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: hospital for more than ten days. Now and there are 21 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 2: fewyears he may not survive. So what happens if he 22 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: does actually die, Well, that's what we're going to look 23 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 2: at in this episode. From the moment the Pontiff takes 24 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,639 Speaker 2: his final breath, the Catholic Church moves into a meticulously planned, 25 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 2: albeit secretive process that has remained largely unchanged for centuries. 26 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 2: If you want to know what really happens behind the 27 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 2: walls of the Vatican, how the church decides on its 28 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 2: next leader, and why the world's cameras are fixed on 29 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 2: a chimney over the Cistine Chapel. 30 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: Well you're about to find out. 31 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 2: Joining me now is Professor Darius von Gutner from the 32 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: Australian Catholic University. Professor, thanks so much for your. 33 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: Time, pleasure to be here. 34 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 2: Let's start at the beginning. What happens as soon as 35 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 2: a pope passes away? And how quickly is the world 36 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 2: told about that? 37 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 3: Well, in a very human way, the death of the 38 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 3: perk needs to be confirmed. So there's of course the 39 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 3: doctor's present. There are also officials present. There are certain 40 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 3: big officials in the church that kind of do this. 41 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 3: One of them is called Cardinal Come out Lengo and 42 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 3: he officially confirms that the Pope is dead, and then 43 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 3: his responsibility is to tell others, to tell his brother cardinals, 44 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 3: and to tell all the diplomatic core, and to tell 45 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 3: the whole world. 46 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 2: I've heard something about the Pope wearing a special ring 47 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 2: and that being destroyed as soon as he passes away. 48 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 2: Can you tell me more about that? 49 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 3: When Pope dies, his ring is very ceremonially destroyed. It's 50 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 3: destroyed because the rings symbolized his authorities of pope, and 51 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 3: it acts as if it were a seal. In several 52 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 3: hundred years ago, that ring was used to seal the 53 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 3: official documents of the Pope. These days, it's very much 54 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,119 Speaker 3: ceremonial rings symbolizing that his pope. 55 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 2: So after the Pope passes away, the morning period begins. 56 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: What does that look like? 57 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: How long does it last? 58 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 3: That's very specific rules about it, and I think it's 59 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 3: about nine days since the death of the pope. Were 60 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,679 Speaker 3: the cardinals in the Vatican gather together, organize various prayers 61 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 3: and essentially this is about remembering the Pope, remember what 62 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 3: happened with him, remembered his good days, remembering, you know, 63 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 3: creating his legacy as well. But it's also a very 64 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 3: deeply spiritual time where faithful romans and visitors can come 65 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 3: and pay their respects. 66 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: And is it right that the pope's body is displayed 67 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 2: to the public so they can come and pay their respects. 68 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 3: Yes, that's that's been a very long tradition that the 69 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 3: pope's body will be dressed in his pontifical vestment sings 70 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 3: that he would be wearing for various ceremonies, and his 71 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 3: bodies traditionally carried out of the Apostolic Palace in a 72 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 3: full view of the faithful in Saint Peter's Basilica, and 73 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 3: it's then available for everyone to come and pay pay 74 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 3: their respects. 75 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 2: Yes, I have heard this wild rumor in the past 76 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 2: that some popes have had their hearts removed. 77 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: It's a little bit odd. Is that accurate? Does it 78 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: still happen? 79 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 3: I think this goes back to the tradition of embalming 80 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 3: bodies of those who died. You know, starting with Pharaohs, 81 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 3: you had the tradition monarchs across all continents who went 82 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 3: through this. Popes were probably not different. I don't think 83 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 3: this is happening for a very long time, and some popes, 84 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 3: I think most recently, John Paul the Second explicitly said 85 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 3: I don't want anything to be done to my body, 86 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 3: and I want to be buried in a very specific way. 87 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 3: So I think there is just a reflection that this 88 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 3: is not the thing we do anymore. 89 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: That makes sense. 90 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: So after the morning period as over, the pope is 91 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 2: farewell with a funeral and then buried. What can you 92 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 2: tell me about those two events deferrewell ease. 93 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 3: Essentially, think about it. This is a family saying goodbye 94 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 3: to that love one. So his members of his household 95 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 3: would take the prominent part in This body of the 96 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 3: Pope would be ceremonially placed in three coffins. That's a 97 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 3: very old tradition of placing the body in the casket, 98 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 3: then in a metal coffin that will be then sealed, 99 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 3: and then in a big oak coffin. Then the coffin 100 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 3: will be part of the funeral in front of Saint 101 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 3: Peter's Square. That's what happened with John Paul the Second, 102 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 3: for example, when with Pope Benedict. But you would say 103 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 3: this is a traditional Catholic funeral where the family gothers, 104 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 3: when the faithful and visitors gather, Papal funerals are probably 105 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 3: more special in a way because there's pageantry, there's certain 106 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 3: customs about the prayers and those bishops and archbishops and 107 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 3: cardinal that are going to come and be witness to it, 108 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 3: as well as different heads of states. 109 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 2: And if Pope Francis does pass away, where will he 110 00:05:58,360 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 2: be buried? 111 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 3: Are by tradition buried within Saint Peter's Basilica. 112 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 2: The most interesting part of this whole process, in my opinion, 113 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 2: is how the next pope is elected. It is a 114 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: wild series of events involving a locked room, secret ballots, 115 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 2: and colored smoke. We'll hear all about it in just 116 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 2: a moment. Welcome back. I'm chatting to Professor Darius von 117 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 2: Gutna from the Australian Catholic University. Professor, a couple of 118 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 2: weeks after the Pope's funeral, a new pope is elected. 119 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: It is a very secretive process. But what do we 120 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: know about it? 121 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 3: The election is called conclave, meaning essentially from the word 122 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 3: under the key that are closed with the key. It 123 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 3: is secretive, but if you think about it this way, 124 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 3: it's a secret bullet. So there is a double kind 125 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 3: of secrecy. It's a secrecy of proceedings the way they 126 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 3: behave and vote by themselves. But also it is by 127 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 3: secret bullet, which is like, you know, we expect this 128 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 3: from any other election. That does not really surprise us, 129 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 3: does it. It is a very special process because only 130 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 3: cardinals that are called to be part of it can 131 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 3: take part in it. So cardinal electors cannot be older 132 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 3: than eighty years old. Gather in the Sistem Chapel, in 133 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 3: that very kind of special holy place at the heart 134 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 3: of the Vatican. But at the same time, this is 135 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 3: the place which is adorned with all of this works 136 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 3: of ours, with those enormous things by Michael Angelo. So 137 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 3: it is all a fabulous scenery for the election. 138 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 2: And how does that election actually play out? How many 139 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: people are in the running? And do they have to 140 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: have like a unanimous victory. 141 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 3: No, not unanimous and not a simple majority. They need 142 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 3: to have two third majority in order to be elected. 143 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 3: And on the first day they can vote only once. 144 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 3: They have one afternoon vote, and then on any subsequent 145 00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 3: day they vote four times. A day vote, they have 146 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 3: a time to rest and pray and meditate, they vote, 147 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,239 Speaker 3: they have lunch, they come back for a vote after lunch. 148 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 3: They have CST and they come back for the evening vote. 149 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 3: So four votes a day and two thirds majorities required 150 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 3: for a person to be elected for men among them 151 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 3: to be elected. Now, if the ballot is unsuccessful, so 152 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 3: they vote in writing their ballot papers. They need to 153 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 3: write one name on a ballot paper. Though there are 154 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 3: three scrutineers that are counting the votes and then tally 155 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 3: the votes and they give an outcome. So for example, 156 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 3: they are going to say that this and this cardinal 157 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 3: achieve that many votes, and if no cardinal achieved two 158 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:47,599 Speaker 3: thirds majority, then their famous black smoke goes through the 159 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 3: chimney above the system chapel. But if there is a 160 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 3: cardinal that received two thirds majority, a wide smoke will 161 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 3: be then telling people outside that yes, the election will 162 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 3: successful and there is a new pope elected. 163 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: Wow. 164 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 2: Okay, so the smoke indicates if there's been a result 165 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 2: or right. How long do these conclaves typically last In. 166 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,479 Speaker 3: The recent membory, not very long. I think last conclave, 167 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 3: the Pope Francis was elected on the second day. I 168 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 3: think in the fifth ballot, so on the second day, 169 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 3: so in a way it doesn't have to take too long. 170 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 3: In history, they were conclaves that taken months. But I 171 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 3: guess we don't expect that we're going to have such 172 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 3: a long election process this time. 173 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 2: And once the world has been told that there's a 174 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 2: new pope, the white smoke has gone up through the chimney. 175 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: What happens next? How quickly do we get to see 176 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 2: who the actual pope is? 177 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 3: Well, the man who was elected needs to agree, So 178 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 3: he's asked does he accept the election? Right, It's not 179 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 3: like winner takes it all. He needs to accept that 180 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 3: his p is elected him poop. When he says that 181 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 3: he accepts this vote, then he needs to get give 182 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 3: them the name. He's going to be known as pope, 183 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 3: and he can choose whatever name he wants. When this 184 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 3: is communicated, he's then brought in front of the people 185 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 3: gathered outside Saint Peter's Basilica, and he essentially goes and says, hello, 186 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 3: this is me. I've been elected. I'm I'm new Pope. 187 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 3: But at the same time, this is the you know, 188 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 3: the famous blessing to the to Rome and to the world, 189 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 3: where the new newly elected pope tells everyone, you know, 190 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 3: I'm happy to see you. Because Pope Francis when he 191 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 3: was elected, he didn't do a very formal greeting. He said, 192 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 3: now I think I bothered you enough for long enough, 193 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 3: you know, and now you know, go home and have lunch, 194 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 3: you know. So that's that's where the Pope kind of 195 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 3: communicates for the first time, opened with everyone else. And 196 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 3: then I think within within a week or so, there 197 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 3: is a formal papal inauguration where the pope is formally 198 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 3: installed as the leader of the Romance Church, and it's 199 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 3: usually a beak ceremony in front of the Saint Peter's 200 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 3: Pacifica in the Vatican. 201 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: It is a fascinating process. 202 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 2: Hopefully we don't see it play out anytime soon, but 203 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 2: if it does, Professor Darius, thank you for running us 204 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 2: through it. Thank you very much for the latest updates 205 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 2: on Pope Francises Healthy. 206 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: Can check out news dot com todayre you in the meantime. 207 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to from the newsroom, 208 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 2: follow 209 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 1: Or subscribe to from the Newsroom wherever you get your podcasts.