1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,599 Speaker 1: Welcome to Healthy Ish. Thank you for joining us today 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: on this Body and Soul podcast. I hope you are 3 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: feeling healthy ish. Of course I am Felicity Harley. Is 4 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: it just me or is everyone talking about the vagus 5 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: nerve right now? Well, to shed some light on the 6 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: crucierrole it plays in regulating our physiology and emotions, I'm 7 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: joined via online studio by physiotherapist and ted X speaker 8 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: Jessica Maguire Fyi. Her new book is called The Nervous 9 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: System Reset. After listening to this one listening to our 10 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: other sister podcast, Extra Healthy Ish, where Jessica shares how 11 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: we can get better at regulating our nervous system. You 12 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: can search for Extra Healthy Ish wherever you get your podcasts. Jessica, 13 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: thank you for coming on healthy Ish today. How are you. 14 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: I'm well, Felicity, Thank you so much for having me. 15 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and a new book. Congratulations. How does it feel 16 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: you always good? 17 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a very exciting, particularly being my first book, 18 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: so it's all new to me. But yes, very much 19 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 2: enjoying the whole process. 20 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,839 Speaker 1: Now. When I did see, well something on the cover 21 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: of your book, the vagus Nerve, I just thought I 22 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: am saying this on social media. In the media, everyone's 23 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: talking about it. Why we're so obsessed with the vagus nerve. 24 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting time with this coming into mainstream. 25 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: So I think it's really great that this awareness is 26 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 2: coming in because we used to just think of our 27 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: nervous system, particularly this autonomic nervous system, keeping us safe. 28 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 2: It was like a really simple two branch system of 29 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 2: the sympathetic and the parasympathetic, where you know, the sympathetic 30 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 2: was like the accelerator and a car took us in 31 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 2: a fight or flight, and the parasympathetic was like the break, 32 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 2: we'll rest and digest and slowed us down. But what 33 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: we now know is that it's not actually a big 34 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 2: enough picture, so it's a little bit outdated. And we 35 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 2: know that the power sympathetic branch, there's actually two breaks. 36 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 2: And this has to do with the two parts of 37 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: the vegas nerve. So one part of the vegas nerve 38 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 2: that runs from our brain to our heart slows us 39 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,519 Speaker 2: down and regulates us. This is both our physiology and 40 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 2: our emotions changing and the other part can take us 41 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 2: down into a shutdown. And so what's interesting is we 42 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 2: are bringing this into mainstream. You know, awareness that this 43 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 2: is different. I think that's great, particularly from a trauma 44 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 2: informed point of view, and that's why it's taken off. 45 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 2: But we are also seeing a lot on how we 46 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 2: hack this vegas nerve and quick things we can do 47 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 2: for a fix, which you know, it can in some 48 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 2: ways be really helpful, but it may also miss the 49 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 2: complexities of the vegus nerve and all the different parts 50 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 2: of it, because I think it's more like an ecosystem 51 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 2: rather than just one nerve we can hack. 52 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,959 Speaker 1: That's a really great description because often you will see 53 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: hack your vegas nerve and do this, and do that, 54 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: and you can you can calm yourself in three seconds flat. 55 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: In some ways, you're right, it's good because it's getting 56 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: the message out there, but in other ways it's it's 57 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: kind of well, there's a few falsehoods around it. Why 58 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: is it important for our health talk to us about this? 59 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, you know, it's interesting. When I was at 60 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 2: university a long long time ago, we sort of compartmentalized 61 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: all the systems, you know, we broke up the body 62 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: and brain. And even as I worked as a physiotherapist 63 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 2: and was really identifying myself as somebody that worked on 64 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 2: the body, but what I now know was a lot 65 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: of the things I was doing was also working on 66 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: the brain indirectly from working through the body. And so 67 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 2: the vegus nerve is this very much real connection between 68 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 2: our brain and body, and the way that the vegus 69 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: nerve is sending messages will determine the state of our 70 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: nervous system that we move into. So eighty percent of 71 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: its fibers are running from the body up to the brain, 72 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 2: and it's sending information about how we are, if we're 73 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 2: safe or not. But also these same messages are really 74 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 2: important for keeping balance between our systems. So for instance, 75 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 2: this is a really simple example, but let's say we 76 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: feel thirsty and that message is sent up to the brain, 77 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 2: then we might go and get a drink and we 78 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 2: reregulate that system or our hydration. The same for hunger. 79 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 2: But this can also be with things that we're not 80 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 2: aware of, like blood pressure, pH balance, that sort of thing. 81 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 2: But the branches of the vegas nerve that are running 82 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: from the brain back down to our organs are actually 83 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 2: regulating our health. So there's a really important role with 84 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 2: the branches to our heart to do with cardiovascular health. 85 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 2: There's branches to our gut that helped to regulate the 86 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 2: digestive system, and the vegus nerve plays a really important 87 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 2: role in the immune system with inflammation too. So we 88 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 2: can't necessarily separate the brain and body. We can't separate 89 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 2: our emotions from our physiology. And this is where physical 90 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: and emotional health really intersect. And I think this is 91 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 2: a really exciting time because we've heard for so long, well, 92 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: stress is bad, but what we're really seeing is it's 93 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 2: not necessarily that stress is bad. You know, if we 94 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: mobilize energy to face a demand and we recover from it, 95 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 2: that's fantastic. We can do that, We can meet challenges. 96 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 2: But it's the way our vagus nerve releases and then 97 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:36,239 Speaker 2: re engages to change our physiology to meet what's happening 98 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 2: in front of us accurately and from what's happened in 99 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 2: our past. We might respond with too much energy or 100 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 2: mobilization in our system, which I've talked about in the 101 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 2: book as being in the too hot state, or we 102 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 2: might find ourselves responding with not enough and a little 103 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 2: bit more of a collapse and an apathy, which I 104 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,799 Speaker 2: wrote as being in the too cold state in the book. 105 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I just think when you're talking about you 106 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: actually described it so well. It's so good to look 107 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: at a visual of it as well, isn't it. I 108 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: always come back to the visual of the vagus nerve 109 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: because it just helps you get your head around well, 110 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: how it affects every as you say, organ and every 111 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: body part and filters back into the brain. So how 112 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: do you describe it? Do you describe it controlling it, 113 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: balancing it, tuning in like how can we get better 114 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: at toning it? So to speak. 115 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great question. And I think when you 116 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 2: talked about before, are we hearing a lot about hacking it. 117 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 2: We can't really hack it if we want to look 118 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 2: at building more regulation in our nervous system, or what 119 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 2: we might say is building vaguel tone. So you know, 120 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 2: we can say, well, just like a muscle that's healthy 121 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 2: and strong has good tone, we say that the vegus 122 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 2: nerve has good vaguel tone. And this is particularly the 123 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 2: branch that we look at. It runs from the brain stem. 124 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 2: So if you put your hand on the back of 125 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 2: your head, run it down to where that bony ridges, 126 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 2: and you went in from there, that's your brain stem 127 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 2: and then it goes down to the heart this particular branch. 128 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 2: So that connection there of the vegus nerve acts like 129 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 2: a break. So if you were riding a bicycle down 130 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 2: a hill, you keep a little bit of that break, 131 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,679 Speaker 2: engage with your fingertips so you didn't go too fast, 132 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 2: And that is technically what the vegus nerve is always 133 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 2: doing to us. So if that wasn't there, our heart 134 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 2: rate at rest would be about ninety beats per minute, 135 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 2: but for most adults, because of that, yep, it's like 136 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 2: around seventy. So when we want to meet a challenge, 137 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 2: if we've got healthy vagel tone, well actually just relax 138 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 2: the break a little bit. So imagine we're like riding downhill. 139 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: We relax the break a little bit, we go a 140 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: bit faster, and this might be now while we're talking, 141 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 2: because I love talking about this so much, I get 142 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: so passionate, and I feel the excitement and mobilizing energy. 143 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 2: But then afterwards that break would re engage and I 144 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 2: would slow my physiog back down. That's what happens when 145 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: we've got healthy vaguel tone. But what happens if we 146 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 2: don't necessarily have healthy vaguel tone because of periods of 147 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: chronic and traumatic stress. Instead of just relaxing that break 148 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: a little bit, it comes off completely and it's like 149 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 2: we find ourselves barreling downhill too fast. And this is 150 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 2: really what anxiety is. This is where we move into 151 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 2: fight or flight. We might have anger, rage, reactivity, and 152 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 2: we feel that like energy come up and we respond 153 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 2: in a way where we say, I wish I didn't 154 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 2: say that, do that. You know, we have that regret 155 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 2: later on. So the good news is we can actually 156 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: fine tune or build this vaguel tone through what we do. 157 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 2: And that's not necessarily through hacks. It's more like we 158 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 2: can do daily things that help, but it's actually more 159 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 2: what we do in the heat of the moment, and 160 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 2: we teach our brain and our nervous system how to 161 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 2: respond in a new way because we think like they're 162 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 2: passive taking in information, but they're actually reshaping themselves through 163 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: everything we experience. So that's where we lean into neuroplasticity, 164 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 2: or how the brain and nervous system change. 165 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 1: Jessica, thank you for coming on healthy. 166 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 2: Ish, thank you for liciting. 167 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: Well go by Jessica's excellent advice and toning your vagus 168 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: nerve cannot be done in three easy hacks from TikTok No. 169 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: It is a continuous journey throughout your life and if 170 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: you want to read some more expert information on it, 171 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: grab it Jessica's new book. It is called The Nervous 172 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: System Reset and it is out now. If you did 173 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: enjoy this chat, tell us, rate and review this podcast. 174 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: You can also subscribe anything else said to body andsoul 175 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: dot com DOTU for US and socials orb Our print 176 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: edition which is out in your local Sunday paper and 177 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 1: until tomorrow. Stay healthy ish