1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: This episode of head Game was recorded on gadigal Land, just. 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 2: Days after his twentieth birthday. There's a knock on the 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 2: door of j pouqu Pouquet's Auckland home. It was the police, 4 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 2: search Warren in hand. He's arrested and taken into custody. Later, 5 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 2: police would show him the CCTV evidence of the string 6 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: of armed robberies he'd committed over a number of months. 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: The promising rugby league player was convicted and sentenced to 8 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 2: six years in jail, his actions robbing him of his 9 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 2: childhood dream of playing in the NRL. Start watching his 10 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: foot teammate's careers progress from inside a cell, Jay decides. 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: He wants more from life. 12 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 2: I'm Matt Middleton and this is head Game today. J 13 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 2: pu qu Pouquet on how he's using his criminal pass 14 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 2: to teach youth to avoid his mistakes. 15 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: Jay. 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: I love your story from conviction to a outstanding career 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 2: one you could have had beforehand. The journey and the 18 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 2: path that you've taken is a great lesson to others. 19 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 2: But first and foremost, you're in New Zealand right now. 20 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 2: How are you, buddy? 21 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 3: I'm good man, I'm just actually on the end of 22 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 3: a three week road trip with my three kids. 23 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: Ah, mate, living the life. 24 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah. We've been doing a bit of a 25 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 3: book run up in the North Island and we're finishing 26 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 3: here and to the widows and sort of mid mid 27 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 3: cents from North Island where my grandfather sort of comes from. 28 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 3: So it's good to bring the kids back here and reconnect. 29 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: Love it, mate, love that, do you know what? 30 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 2: And your story is very much about, you know, refinding 31 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: your culture, reconnecting with your culture, you know, turning your 32 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 2: life around. And you mentioned your there in a Warrior. 33 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 2: You've been doing a book tour with your kids, you know. 34 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: Becoming that family man that you know up there and 35 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 2: having that family unit by your side is what life 36 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 2: is all about. And I'm glad that you're there, brother. 37 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 2: You know, rugby or footy as the Aussies called it. 38 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 2: I'm not sure what you call it in New Zealand. 39 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 2: Is it rugby or is it is it footy? 40 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 3: We call it league league? 41 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: Are there you go? 42 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 3: Mate? But can any things? 43 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: What was your life growing up? Mate? 44 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 2: Where did you grow up with a rugby ball in 45 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,519 Speaker 2: your hand? Did did your parents play? Your father play? 46 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 2: Where did that passion come from. 47 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, my dad played, I don't. I have no idea 48 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 3: where it came from, because I remember when I was 49 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 3: five playing rugby with no shoot, with no boots on 50 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 3: and at like eight o'clock in the morning in the 51 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 3: mono or two, and I was absolute shit house edit, 52 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 3: but something made me keep turning up. Edit. Wasn't really 53 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 3: until I was kind of like twelve or thirteen where 54 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 3: I figured out that I could be good at it. 55 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 3: And that's where I first really started getting belief in myself. 56 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 3: Actually was when I made I made a RIP team 57 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 3: under thirteens, and I thought, oh, maybe I can, you know, 58 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 3: And then from there that started a whole new journey 59 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 3: because before that I was just a numbers go make 60 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 3: the numbers up on the team. 61 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 2: So from quite a young age, from the age of thirteen, 62 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 2: was that like a defining moment when you made that 63 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 2: team where that you thought, do you know what if 64 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: I put everything into this and I focus and you 65 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 2: know you've obviously got the passion and you've put in 66 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: the hard work to be there. Was it from that 67 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: young age that you thought, this is all I want 68 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: to do. 69 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: I just want to play play league. 70 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was probably like elevens or twelves 71 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 3: where I thought that I grew that passion, but I 72 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 3: wasn't tall thirteen where I made like a rip team 73 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, it's actually more real now 74 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 3: and and you're right. It was then where I got 75 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 3: belief in the night, actually started working harder, not just 76 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 3: not just turning up. Dad would take me parents of 77 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 3: other guys in the team. They would pick me up 78 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 3: and take me and we'd hang out on the weekends. 79 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 3: And I remember that try and they'd be like, for 80 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 3: every there was Georgie pie. The pies were a dollar, 81 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 3: and they see, for every try, your store will buy 82 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 3: your pie. So that went a long way. 83 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 2: What was it like in the household when you'd finish footy? 84 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 2: What was the atmosphere like? And you know, what was 85 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: it like growing up from that age when you knew 86 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 2: that you wanted to do this? Because I suppose the 87 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 2: pressure of knowing what you want to do at such 88 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: a young age brings its own sort of stresses and pressures. 89 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, my thing was I didn't I didn't want 90 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 3: to bother anyone. I wanted to do what I wanted 91 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 3: to do, but I didn't want anyone to take time 92 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 3: out of what they're doing so I could do my thing. 93 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 3: Only I only realized that later on, you know, when 94 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 3: I think back. But for that reason, you know, I 95 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 3: would get up wherever I was, because I moved around 96 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 3: a lot, around at different houses. Like I had a 97 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 3: mom and dad. Everything was fine, but I just chose 98 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 3: to do, you know, be my own person. 99 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 2: And when you say, yeah, the mom and dad, were 100 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: they together or were you switching between your mom and 101 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: your dad's house like kids do? 102 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 3: When the yeah, they they went together, and I was, 103 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 3: you know, I was. I was much of a handful. 104 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 3: So you know I switched between not just them, but 105 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 3: my whole family, my uncle's, my grandmother, my grapevine uncles, 106 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 3: you know, but further down just everywhere. But wherever I was, 107 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 3: I would get to training and I would get to 108 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 3: the game on Saturdays. I wouldn't always get to school, 109 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 3: but I made sure I always got to training. You know. 110 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 3: That was the most relevant thing in my life, not 111 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 3: education obviously. 112 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 2: Do you think that, Jade, do you think that's because 113 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 2: I think as a youngster as well, I remember playing 114 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 2: soccer back in the UK, and again, you know, I 115 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 2: turn up and make sure I was on time for that, 116 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: and I'd bunk off school. You know, school was sort 117 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 2: of just a inconvenience for me, but it almost the 118 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 2: football kept that discipline within me because obviously I was 119 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 2: turning up on time for something. I was making sure that, 120 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 2: like you said, you weren't just turning up that you 121 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 2: were present. You were you were there, you wanted to 122 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 2: be there. Did that side of things keep your life 123 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 2: life quite disciplined and structured? 124 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think I carried that sort of philosophy 125 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 3: throughout as I got old, Like if I wasn't into it, 126 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 3: I just wouldn't thought it. You know, it was my own. 127 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 3: It was my principle. If if I liked something, I'd 128 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 3: do it, and I would do it well, and I 129 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 3: would in anything I wanted to do, I was smashed. 130 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 3: Anything I didn't want to do, I'm not going to 131 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 3: do it. Was pretty That was a pretty clear cup 132 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 3: for me. School was in that category. Authority authority was 133 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 3: in that category. Staying at home was in that category. Yeah. 134 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 3: I just wanted to be me and independent and do 135 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 3: what I want to do. And yeah, it didn't work 136 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 3: out so well in the end, but. 137 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: But listen, mate, life lessons along the way. 138 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 2: But when did things start to sort of go off 139 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 2: off track for you a bit? And when did you 140 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 2: start really getting it into some trouble with the police. 141 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,239 Speaker 3: Things started going off track? You know, when I was five, 142 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 3: I just got to school and I was trying to leave. 143 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 3: I wasn't interested in anything they had. And when I 144 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 3: did give it a try, I and I and I'd fail. 145 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 3: I'd get shut down pretty quick. So I was like, oh, well, 146 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 3: what's the point? You know, So as fast as I'd 147 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 3: be sent to school, I get dropped off at the 148 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 3: front and walk straight out and out of the back door. 149 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 3: From that, when to stealing from people, shoplifting, fighting in 150 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 3: the streets, and then you know, it just got bigger 151 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 3: and bigger and then hello, I'm locked up. 152 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 153 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: And I suppose it's from such a young age as 154 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 2: well that it's almost like the norm, isn't it. You know, 155 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 2: you get away with it, and then you go on, 156 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: you go on to bigger things, and you go on 157 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: to more riskier things, and then before you know it, 158 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 2: you know, without even realizing it, you're you're caught up 159 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 2: in I suppose, in this life of crime. 160 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean taking something else a shelf at the 161 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 3: shop and putting in your pocket was it was nothing? 162 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 3: You know, it was kind of like you're disensitized as 163 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 3: you went up. So then all of a sudden, when 164 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 3: you're you're running in with guns and stuff, it's you're 165 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 3: almost disensitized because the other things below there are kind 166 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 3: of nothing. 167 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 2: So when was the time that you realize, you know, ship, 168 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: things are getting serious right now, and you know, I've 169 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 2: got my Rugby that I love, and I've got this 170 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 2: life outside of Rugby that could potentially, you know, compromise 171 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 2: that and take all of that away. Was there a 172 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 2: moment or a time where the police came knocking on 173 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 2: your door and you would like, oh, no. 174 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 3: This is it. Yeah, I remember an exact time. Actually 175 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 3: it's when I got arrested. Even when I got arrested, 176 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 3: I was kind of like, oh, yeah, this is just 177 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 3: and this is what happens. This is the next thing, 178 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 3: this is the stage you need to go through. So 179 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 3: I was pretty casual, pretty calm. Took me through all 180 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 3: the things, got my fingerprinted, and took me into the 181 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,719 Speaker 3: south and then shut the door, stayed the other night. 182 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 3: The next day, they put me into like a bigger 183 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 3: room with everyone else from overnight who got picked up. 184 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 3: And then the bus, the bus backed up to the door, 185 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 3: and then there's this big island in the islander guy 186 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 3: and he had a list and everyone would file onto 187 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 3: the bus, and as if file onto the bus, he'd 188 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 3: he'd have the names, and he'd be like, oh, yeah, 189 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 3: you're you're going to get bailed today. The next guy 190 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 3: is like, oh that the judge is good today, you 191 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 3: might you might get bailed. And the third guy, oh, 192 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 3: you'll get out. And then I remember I came up 193 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 3: and he goes, you're definitely going to jail. And then 194 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 3: so that was the first kind of like all right, 195 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 3: I'm going to jail. So let's get let's get the head, 196 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 3: let's get the head ready for that, and let's go 197 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 3: go along with those motions and what what? 198 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: What was it that you're up. 199 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 3: For fifteen armed robberies and assault? There was actually one 200 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 3: one of the robberies they didn't have and I was like, 201 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 3: you missed, you missed that one. 202 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 2: Do you think that you're going to you're going to 203 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 2: get a minimal sentence, You think you might get a 204 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 2: slap on a rist and get out, or you're starting 205 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 2: to sweat a little. 206 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 3: I've got myself in the mindset where I'm going to prison. 207 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 3: It's just a matter of how long and the you know, 208 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 3: the maximum for robbery is fourteen years. So yeah, I 209 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 3: when I went to court to get sentence, the judge 210 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 3: gave me six years or with five years ten months, 211 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 3: almost six years. 212 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:38,959 Speaker 2: When you get your sentence in the UK, you get 213 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 2: a sentence and you serve half that sentence. 214 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: And you do half of it on parole or half 215 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: of it on you know. 216 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 2: When you're when you're out, you sort of have to 217 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 2: wear a tag or whatever it may be. So when 218 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 2: you when you're sentenced in New Zealand, does six years 219 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 2: mean six years or does it mean that there's a 220 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 2: period that you have to do and if you're a 221 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 2: model prisoner or you can leave early on good behavior. 222 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, back then it was you said two thirds oh wow, okay, 223 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 3: and then you get out with then you're free to go, 224 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 3: no conditions. 225 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 2: So you know that you're in there for under just 226 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 2: under four years. You know that you've got let's say 227 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 2: four years in the bag. When that hammer goes down, 228 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 2: are you doing those calculations straight away? And what does 229 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 2: it feel like when you tell yourself, I've got four 230 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 2: years behind the door. 231 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 3: At the time, I was actually just trying to see 232 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 3: my family. And then when you sentenced me, the judge 233 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 3: told me, he goes, you know, you're a bloody waste. 234 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 3: And it did take that into account, you know, the 235 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 3: sporting potential or ability, my age, and obviously there wasn't 236 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 3: like a ten year span of criminal activity. It was 237 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 3: kind of it was a compressed kind of rampage. 238 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: How old were you Jay at this stage. 239 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 3: I just turned twenty, so I just missed done. I 240 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 3: just missed the youth prison and had to go straight 241 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 3: to adult population. But yeah, I remember going back after 242 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 3: from Cortbeck into the holding sales downstairs, and then the 243 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 3: boys down there like how'd you go? And I was like, 244 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 3: I think I did it right. Six you know, five years, 245 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 3: ten months or six years, that's my remand and they're like, whoa, 246 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 3: you should have got ten to fourteen? 247 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: Are you thinking now in your head? 248 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 2: Well, I need to do everything in my power to 249 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 2: make sure that I get out on let's say the 250 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 2: four year point. You know that I don't misbehave and 251 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 2: get extended for another two years because. 252 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: Maybe you know, four years is a long time. 253 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 2: A year on top of that is demoralizing, and another 254 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 2: year on top of that, mate, that could be that 255 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: could be the end of it. Right, So are you 256 00:13:58,040 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 2: are you trying to see the best in the situation? 257 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 3: Yeah? I just I just because remind's a bit a 258 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 3: bit up and down sentence. You can be a bit 259 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 3: more settled knowing when you're getting out where you're going 260 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 3: to be moving to. So I was just really just 261 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 3: to get in and get stuck in. And I'd had 262 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 3: three months of preparation and remand of prison life. Yeah 263 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 3: for me at the time, and where my head was at, 264 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 3: it wasn't it wasn't that bad. It was still bad 265 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 3: m M. But I could have been yeah, a lot 266 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 3: a lot worse. So I was just I was just 267 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 3: ready to just get get stuck in, get my time done, 268 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 3: move on and get out. Yeah, get up. 269 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: Where's your footy career? 270 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 2: And where does that the hopes and aspiration of of 271 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 2: following your dream crumble with with the prison sentence? 272 00:14:54,240 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 3: So I actually I stopped playing football the year prior. 273 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 3: I actually just kind of walked out. I started fighting Truble, 274 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 3: trying to fight in the gym, and that that occupied 275 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 3: my time, and I had a job at nights doing robberies. 276 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: But great a job that ended up ending you up 277 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: in prison. 278 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 3: It was a fixed term job. Yeah, I didn't realize 279 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 3: how much it would affect me then it was. It 280 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 3: was later when I was inside and I was watching 281 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 3: all the guys from the team advanced their careers and 282 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 3: become you know, national legends and go on to be. 283 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 2: What guy, Guys that you were playing with, Guys that 284 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 2: you were training with, Guys that you know that we're 285 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 2: in your team that you know that you probably were 286 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 2: looking at, going well, you know, I'm at the same 287 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 2: level better than this player. 288 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: This could be me. 289 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 2: And I suppose from the age twenty to twenty six, 290 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 2: even though hopefully you know twenty four, in that mindset 291 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 2: you would have got out. That's when that's when the 292 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 2: contracts are coming. That's when you're at, you know, the 293 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 2: prime of your career. 294 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 3: You know. 295 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 2: So when does it start to kick in that you're 296 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 2: like that shit, you know that could be me? 297 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I had on to hope that I 298 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 3: could get out and do it. 299 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 2: And are you training while you're in there, Jay? Are 300 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 2: you training like you know? First of all, can you 301 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: train and are you training hoping that when you get 302 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 2: out that you could literally put your boots back on 303 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 2: and get straight back into into things. Is that Is 304 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 2: that a positive distraction in your head? 305 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm training, not not like not like I could have. 306 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 3: It's still very immature, and I'm taking in my surroundings 307 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 3: and you know, meeting new people and learning new skills. 308 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 3: And I call it my IE. A lot of people 309 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 3: doing OWE, which is outdoor or overseas ex experience, I 310 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 3: do it, and I did my indoor experience in my 311 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 3: prime for three or four years. I was just taking 312 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 3: it in, going through the motions, hanging out, you know, 313 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 3: taking it, taking it for granted. I didn't really I 314 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 3: didn't really change my mindset too much. I was obviously 315 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 3: upset about not fulfilling my my one and knownly aspiration 316 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 3: I've even had of my whole life. So I just 317 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 3: went with the flow. Yeah, I kind of. 318 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: That's very honest. 319 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 2: If you mate, so that day comes you get out, 320 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 2: what's the first thing you do when you when. 321 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: You get out of a four year stretch? 322 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 3: I got on the person man. Yeah, I actually met 323 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 3: a guy in there. I worked in the kitchen. Then 324 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 3: I met a guy in there. I actually always wanted 325 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 3: to be shift, so I whipped in the kitchen. Inside 326 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 3: I met a guy in there who ran actually a 327 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,719 Speaker 3: training program for for for shifts. So he said, if 328 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 3: you come and see me when you get out, I'll 329 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 3: put you into training. So after my hangover finished, I 330 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 3: went and seen him, and he put me into training, 331 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 3: and I went straight away into a full time training 332 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 3: program to be a shift, which I which I completed, 333 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 3: and as soon as I completed it, I had nothing 334 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 3: to do, so I did some more robberies. 335 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: I love your honesty. 336 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 2: Do you not think to yourself, this could be this 337 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 2: could get me into some serious trouble again already having previous, 338 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 2: I suppose that sort of doubles the amplification of you 339 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 2: doing some serious time. 340 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,479 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it kind of At the time, I was 341 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 3: kind of like, didn't really care. And I saw a 342 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 3: spot and I was like, oh, that looks pretty easy. 343 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 3: And then out one and done, pretty simple, and yeah, 344 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 3: pretty much got caught like half an hour later. 345 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: Oh you did what that? 346 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 2: So you come out and you decide do you think, oh, 347 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 2: this is an easy one? And on your first time 348 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 2: of recommitting, let's say you get caught yeah. 349 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 3: So yeah, he's supposed to get better at it, aren't you? 350 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 3: But yeah, I got caught. 351 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 2: So what happens after that? Do you straight back into 352 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 2: a holding cell? Same process? The guy goes to you, 353 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 2: you're going to you're going to jail, and or do 354 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 2: you manage to wingle your out? 355 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 3: Here's the difference in my change is I got caught. 356 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 3: He took me to the holding cell, and then I 357 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 3: said to myself, oh, well, I'm after jail, and then 358 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 3: just started instantly just training NonStop from that moment and thought, 359 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 3: when I get out, I'm just going to be an 360 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 3: absolute monster. And what happened was when I went to court, 361 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 3: the judge just recalled me to prison to finish my 362 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 3: six years, gotcha, Yeah, but then sent me to maximum 363 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:26,959 Speaker 3: to finish that out. 364 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 2: And so you said, do you do you go in 365 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 2: with a different mindset at this stage and how does 366 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 2: it differ from the from the time that you served before. 367 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was actually training just to be a gorilla. 368 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 3: It was a persona I was training. You know. It 369 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 3: wasn't because I was already a little bit bigger, but 370 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 3: I wanted people to look at me and go, holy, 371 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 3: there's big. There's big foot, and that that wasn't for 372 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 3: forty or for it actually gone from me by then 373 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 3: this is the second time, and I was like, oh, 374 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 3: well that one's done and dusted now. But I've had 375 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 3: a few fights by then, legal ones, and I just 376 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 3: wanted to be a monster. And then you know, I 377 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 3: linked up with a whole lot of guys in there 378 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 3: who were legit fighters, and so we ended up training 379 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:32,360 Speaker 3: for almost two years together. 380 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 2: Did that help with with with you sort of keeping 381 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 2: keeping your head clear and out of trouble what was inside? 382 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 3: Yeah? I did. Although like I wanted to be a monster, 383 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 3: I was always you know how you like see a 384 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 3: big guy walking and then he's got a real high voice. 385 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 3: I was kind of that guy. I was always joking 386 00:21:55,080 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 3: around and I was pretty easy going. And you know, 387 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 3: we had a good crew inside. So we all looked 388 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 3: after each other, and you know, we'd trained together, eat together, 389 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 3: work together, motivate each other. It was really good. 390 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 2: Was there any time during your your second sentence that 391 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 2: that ignited into your head? You know, once you became 392 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 2: this beast, did you think, right, I'm faster, I'm more agile. 393 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 2: Was there ever a spark of hope that you would 394 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 2: ever lace up your boots again. 395 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 3: There was like we played a lot inside and you 396 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 3: know there's always that flicker in the back of your 397 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 3: mind like, oh, maybe you can still do it. But 398 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 3: then I did get a I got affect, well, the 399 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 3: office got effects for a contract for me for when 400 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 3: I get out. 401 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 2: Oh wow, so how far you into your sentence when 402 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 2: you get this contract from Maybe? And who's it from? 403 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 3: Maybe? I got three months lift of my six years 404 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 3: and it's from there's a national competition and that plays 405 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 3: around New Zealand. You know, they have a team from 406 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 3: each province and they play. So there was a a 407 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 3: coach that was with me from sort of thirteen fourteen's 408 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 3: all the way. He must have heard I was getting 409 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 3: out somehow and then sent me a contract and then 410 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:23,959 Speaker 3: sent me the facts and then so I signed it 411 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 3: and they sent it back. And then it was really 412 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 3: cool because I got out on Wednesday, and when you 413 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 3: get out, you get three hundred and fifty bucks. They 414 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 3: call it the step to freedom. So I used that 415 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, I'm going to buy me 416 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 3: some training shoes. I went straight to the shop bought 417 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 3: some shoes and they were bloody two hundred Bucks and 418 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 3: then on So I got out Wednesday. On Thursday, I 419 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 3: went I went to that training and there's about five 420 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 3: or six cops in that team and no, yeah, and 421 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 3: I turned up with my sort of my prison will 422 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 3: and Jersey on and yes, Jay, they were awesome, man, 423 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,199 Speaker 3: and we're still good friends today. They were just I 424 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 3: never looked at them and thought they saw me as 425 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 3: the prison guy. They were always supportive. And then yes, 426 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 3: I got out Wednesday, trained on Thursday, and then there 427 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 3: was a TV game on the Monday, so I actually 428 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 3: made the team to play on Monday, and then it 429 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 3: was a free to air channel so all the boys 430 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 3: in prison could watch it. And one of the guys 431 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 3: was saying, because I got on, I came off the bench, 432 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 3: got on, scored a try, and then and then did 433 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 3: a we try celebration and they reckoned. The whole prison 434 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 3: just erupted, just banging on the doors. And that was 435 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 3: my first, my first glimpse of inspiration, you know, for 436 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 3: the guys in prison, Like, good on him. You know, 437 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 3: he's gotten out there, he's playing league what he wanted 438 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 3: to do. And so that was that was like quite 439 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 3: a moment. 440 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 2: And did you feel that from that moment onwards, you 441 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 2: then had a sense of responsibility not only to yourself 442 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 2: but to others, because you know, all of a sudden 443 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 2: they see, look if this guy can do it, so 444 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 2: can I? 445 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: Or did that come later? 446 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 3: That came later? Well, I didn't know about that on 447 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 3: that night. It was a bit later. They told me, Man, 448 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 3: I remember watching you after you got out and all 449 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 3: the boys just lost the plot inside, and I thought, man, 450 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 3: how cool. And I ran into one of the guys 451 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 3: who worked there as an officer, and he come over 452 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 3: and he's like, oh, shook my hand and well done. 453 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 3: I watched you play for they and he goes, don't 454 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 3: you ever come. 455 00:25:49,800 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 2: Back when you get out? Is your mindset now switch? 456 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 2: You've played this game. You've been given a second, third chance, 457 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 2: however you want to call it. Are you now in 458 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,719 Speaker 2: a different headspace? And are you now thinking do you 459 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 2: know what I could make a career out of what 460 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 2: I've always wanted to do? It's almost come back around 461 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 2: three sixty and that's being playing forty professionally. 462 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, not professionally. But there was a New Zealand 463 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 3: Residence team, which is a local team, which I thought 464 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 3: was pretty cool, and a new Zealand multi team, and 465 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 3: I remember that the change in me coming when I 466 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 3: went to prison and I was like, okay, just's that training. 467 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 3: I'm going to be a monster. They're carried right through 468 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 3: and when I got out, I carried that on. So 469 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 3: all I did was chain play and I had about 470 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 3: three or four different jobs. I managed to get a 471 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 3: hatchback car and so I would work and then my 472 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 3: next job would be in a few hours. I'd just 473 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 3: sleep in the car, next job, next job, training, and 474 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,239 Speaker 3: I managed to save up, you know, quite a bit 475 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 3: of money. So I was a new routine. But then 476 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 3: league finished, the season finished, so then I had this 477 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 3: big gap. I had these idle hands, which is where 478 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 3: sort of rip football kicked in. So that was like 479 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,439 Speaker 3: two weeks later, but I was there, you know, a 480 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 3: week earlier. I was like, come on, let's kick in 481 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 3: through it. 482 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm quick, before I get before I get in trouble. 483 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 3: And then the coach who sent me the contract, he goes, hey, 484 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 3: the Warriors are having a trial. You should go down 485 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 3: and I was like, ah, I was like, I don't know, 486 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 3: and he goes go down, tell them I seen you. 487 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 3: So this was three or four months after I got 488 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 3: out and I went down there and I played one 489 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 3: game in the trial, and then I injured my shoulder, 490 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 3: so I sat out. And then at the end of 491 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 3: the because there was maybe three or four games, and 492 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 3: you sort of advance into the final game, and they 493 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 3: called out all the names who would make the team 494 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 3: or the squad, and they called my name out, and 495 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 3: I was like, what, I only played the three quarters 496 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 3: of the game. And there was a guy there who 497 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 3: remembered me from before. I went in and he goes, 498 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 3: I saw your name. I watched you play, and I thought, 499 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 3: where have you been. I said, I've I've been in prison, 500 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 3: and he goes, well, there, I'll explain it. 501 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 2: And he what he was, He was he shocked to 502 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 2: see your name was he was? He happy and obviously 503 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 2: he'd seen you from before, so he knew he probably 504 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 2: knew the potential that that you had, right. 505 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, he picked me up when I was fifteen 506 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 3: and took me to the Warriors in nineteen ninety six, 507 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 3: ninety seven, ninety eight ish, and then that's when I 508 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 3: left to go fighting and did all the robberies. So 509 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 3: here's the one who picked me then, and that's why 510 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 3: he said where have you been. 511 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 2: Do you realize this moment, you know, because that's that's 512 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 2: a phenomenal moment. You know what the chances of that 513 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 2: what you know, right time, right place. 514 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: Did you realize that this this was. 515 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 2: A moment that you needed to capitalize on, that this 516 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 2: is like, Wow, it's fate. Or did you just think 517 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 2: to yourself, do you know what it is? What it is, 518 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 2: I'm just going to crack on playing. Or was there 519 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 2: another sort of mindset switch there where you were just like, 520 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 2: do you know what? 521 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 3: Wow? 522 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: Talk about talk about fate. 523 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a little bit of the first two 524 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 3: things you said. It was a little bit like, Okay, 525 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 3: I've got a seeking chance. I can do this. I 526 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 3: was twenty twenty six or twenty seven, so I was like, oh, well, 527 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 3: you know, let's give it a crack. And then it 528 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 3: was a bit surreal, but you know, I took it 529 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 3: in my stride like I did everything else, and went 530 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 3: to training and I was injured. I injured my shoulder 531 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 3: at the game, so I never really recovered. I remember 532 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 3: the guy saying to me, can you travel And I said, nah, 533 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 3: probably not, And they said, well, if you could have traveled, 534 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 3: you know, it could be a lot different. So that 535 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 3: was really gutting, meaning that, you know, I could have 536 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 3: gone and finished my aspiration if I could have traveled. 537 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 3: I did get a contract for an Australian team, which 538 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 3: I accepted, and then remembered I was still on parole, 539 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 3: so this was only sort of six months after I 540 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 3: got out, so I had to go to the parole 541 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 3: board and apply for early release so I could go 542 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 3: to Australia and fulfill my aspirations. And they said, nah. 543 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 2: Ah, mate, what was going through your your head? Was 544 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 2: there a moment of and I don't like to say 545 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 2: people live in regret because you are where you are 546 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 2: today because of you know, your life experience. But when 547 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 2: you've got a chance to to do to finish off 548 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 2: your aspirations in Australia in the NRL, and that gets 549 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 2: whipped away from you, what are you feeling, mate? Are 550 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 2: you blaming yourself or you blaming society? You know, it's 551 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 2: that must have been like you said, got a venture? 552 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 3: Yeah I was angry, you know, So I was like 553 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 3: yeah ah, because they you know, they put it down 554 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,719 Speaker 3: to you're just going to go over there and all 555 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 3: the league players they just get drunk and and all that, 556 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 3: and they put me in this category and I I 557 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 3: was very sour and bitter that I finally got finally 558 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,959 Speaker 3: got my chance. And it's not it's not even finally 559 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 3: got my chance. It was after the six years I 560 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:19,959 Speaker 3: got an unthinkable chance. 561 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, more like what are the chances of this? 562 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 3: Right? And I was like, holy, because not many do that. 563 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 3: So yeah, I was very sour. I was bitter for 564 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 3: ten years after that. 565 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 2: And and how did that ten years look? 566 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 3: I acceded to the top as far as I could 567 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 3: go in rugby league within New Zealand. So I played, 568 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 3: I played the local national competition, I played for New Zealand, 569 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 3: the residential New Zealand team. I played for the New 570 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 3: Zealand Moldies multiple times. Pretty much did everything you could 571 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 3: do within so myself just extended from a two by 572 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 3: two to the shores of New Zealand. I was still 573 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 3: locked in my cell within New Zealand. 574 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: Is there a moment where you come to terms with it? 575 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 2: You know, you reach the top in in New Zealand 576 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 2: because you know, you said ten years of just bitterness, 577 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 2: is there? When's the moment that comes that you go, 578 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 2: do you know what I've got? 579 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 3: No? 580 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 2: One else to blame apart for myself. It is what 581 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 2: it is now, it's time to give back. 582 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 3: I started giving back before I got over my sugar could. 583 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 3: It wasn't because I was still a big kid, you know, 584 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 3: really big kid, and people are like, I. 585 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: Think we all we all are mate, we all are inside, 586 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: you know. 587 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,719 Speaker 2: I don't think that ever leaves if I'm being honest, 588 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 2: especially when we're together. 589 00:33:55,240 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 3: But yeah, I just people telling me, oh, you should, 590 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 3: you know, share your story with kids like yourself, And 591 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 3: so I volunteered at a place and gave up my 592 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 3: time to speak to them, and from that I didn't 593 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 3: know it at the time. It is the first time 594 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 3: I've spoken kind of vulnerably to other people about how 595 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 3: my choices had changed the course of my life. But 596 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 3: they were kind of captivated and offered me a job 597 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 3: from it. And then so from there that was the 598 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 3: catalyst for me thinking that I did it hard, so 599 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 3: you don't have to. Yeah, and you know, it comes 600 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 3: times where not necessarily rugby league could be, sport, could be, art, 601 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 3: could be whatever you're doing, any opportunity you want to 602 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 3: be able to take it and not let a thirty 603 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 3: second decision take that opportunity away from you, and that 604 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 3: that sort of that grew into you know, something really big. 605 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 2: So you you realized that there's so many people, so 606 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 2: many youngsters in your situation. 607 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: I do the same with giving back. 608 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 2: The military certainly saved me from going down, you know, 609 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 2: that route of self destruction of you know, falling into 610 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 2: the wrong crowd, et cetera, et cetera, because it's so 611 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 2: easily done. I remember an officer telling me one day 612 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 2: is at Middleton, You're you're one of these annoying people 613 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 2: that extremely good at everything, but unfortunately for you, you're 614 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 2: extremely good at getting in trouble as well. And I 615 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 2: can remember that just sticking with me to thinking everything 616 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 2: I do, I just want to do to you know, 617 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 2: and be the best at. But unfortunately for me, that's 618 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 2: getting in trouble. And that sounds a bit like you, 619 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 2: you j So I try and really sort of get 620 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 2: that message across to put your focus in your direction in. 621 00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: What you truly love. 622 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 2: Did you ever play again to any Australian teams? Did 623 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 2: you ever get that? I suppose an ounce of that 624 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 2: sort of that dream that you had to play in 625 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 2: Australia for the NRL was there ever a moment or 626 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 2: a match that you played against, you know, Australia or 627 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 2: a team or an Australian team where you could sort 628 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 2: of put that to bed. 629 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. I actually went to Australia and played for a year. 630 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 3: Ten years later. 631 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,800 Speaker 1: Oh you did in the end, wow. 632 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 3: But you know this is ten years on, so I'm 633 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,399 Speaker 3: ten years older, ten years for ten years slower, ten 634 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 3: years into something else. But I stretched the itch, you know. 635 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 3: I went over there, I played for a team and 636 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 3: made some money and then they're like, do you we 637 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 3: want you to come back next year? Do you want 638 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 3: to come us it? Now I'm done, I'm getting home. 639 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 3: It's not what I thought it was anymore. So I 640 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 3: came home, did my year stretch it finally got over 641 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 3: it and now very content. 642 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: Now very content mate. 643 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,920 Speaker 2: You know what, It's an incredible story, mate, and I 644 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 2: love the raw honesty in that. I think a lot 645 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 2: of people will will relate to that. 646 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: I certainly do. 647 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 2: Let's finish off with your book in a warrior. I 648 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 2: know we mentioned it at the at the beginning. Is 649 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 2: it a self help book or is it more of 650 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 2: a memoir? 651 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:33,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a memoir of pretty much my life. And 652 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 3: it's funny that six years been such a big influential 653 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 3: part of my life. I think only takes up two 654 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 3: chapters in the whole book because there's been so much 655 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 3: other substance, and it was quite weird for me. You know, 656 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 3: I never went to school, I've never read, but I've 657 00:37:55,200 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 3: got a book, and I have spoken about out and 658 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,280 Speaker 3: being vulnerable with young people in my work and stuff. 659 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 3: But now it's out there for everyone, so it's kind 660 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 3: of like it's a little different, but I'm embracing it. 661 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good, mate, And you know what, just from 662 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 2: this interview, I know a lot of people are going 663 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,759 Speaker 2: to go and pick it up again, going into you know, 664 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 2: your past experience, Bros for change. 665 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: Just that's very very much a big part of your life. 666 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty much the cause of everything because it 667 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 3: was so negative and now it's so positive in so 668 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 3: many different ways, even the way that it's run. The 669 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,280 Speaker 3: funny thing is I built it the program for myself 670 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:57,399 Speaker 3: at dead age, but myself at dead age wouldn't listen. Yeah, 671 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 3: you know, it's not for everyone, but maybe for someone. 672 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,279 Speaker 2: Listen, mate, if you can change one person's life, That's 673 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 2: what I always said when I wrote my books and 674 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 2: when I went and done my motivational speaking. 675 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:12,759 Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't for me. 676 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 2: It was to really give back and let people know, Listen, 677 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 2: we're going to make mistakes along the way. We're going 678 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 2: to have setbacks and not backs, but you don't need 679 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,319 Speaker 2: to make as big a ones that I've made or 680 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,879 Speaker 2: that you've made. And you know, Brose for Change will 681 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 2: help you along the way. Jay, It's been an absolute pleasure, buddy. 682 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 2: I wish you all the best for the future, and 683 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 2: thanks ever so much for joining me on my. 684 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 1: Podcast, head Game. 685 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 2: President Jay's book In a Warrior is out now. I'll 686 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 2: put the links to that and Bros for Change in 687 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,320 Speaker 2: the show notes. Thanks for joining me on this episode 688 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 2: of Headgame. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave me 689 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 2: a review. 690 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: I'm Att Middleton. See you again next time.