Speaker 1: Good evening. Will we learnt today that Victoria police is
Speaker 1: treating a spate of anti Semitic attacks on political offices
Speaker 1: as individual and separate investigations led by local police. This
Speaker 1: is despite the fact it would at the very least
Speaker 1: be a credible working hypothesis that the same group of
Speaker 1: activists might be involved in each These incidents are escalating
Speaker 1: and growing more dangerous. It's astonishing these pro Hamas activists
Speaker 1: haven't been arrested. They were still loose on the streets
Speaker 1: and free to strike Josh Burns's office in the early
Speaker 1: hours just this week. In fact, the lack of police
Speaker 1: action might be spurring these unlawful vandals on to commit
Speaker 1: even more outrageous crimes. They're not hiding, they're not shy.
Speaker 1: They are ashamed of their racist exploits. They're boasting about
Speaker 1: them online in posts that the tech companies are just
Speaker 1: allowing to stay up and go viral. Here is a
Speaker 1: clip of pro Palestinian radicals attacking the Attorney General Mark
Speaker 1: Drefus's office.
Speaker 2: See the probation the party policy tonight are brought together.
Speaker 2: I need commanded to Israel security Palestinians.
Speaker 3: Maybe suffering is not the main Israeli concern now attack.
Speaker 4: Palestinian targets without sixteen warplanes killing eleven people.
Speaker 5: Palestinians killed was twenty Palestinians were killed today.
Speaker 1: That was on the fifth of June. As you can see,
Speaker 1: they're shamelessly and brazenly waiving these videos under the nose
Speaker 1: of police. And that video said and the caption was
Speaker 1: the Labor government, including Mark Dreyfus, voted against recognizing the
Speaker 1: state of Palestine. We did some renovations to his office
Speaker 1: in response. Now in a warning that's only going to
Speaker 1: get worse. Their hashtag was escalate for rafa and into
Speaker 1: farda bring it home. And they film themselves also vandalizing
Speaker 1: Bill Shotton's office to have a look.
Speaker 6: God the government supports for people.
Speaker 1: If the UK didn't Sayanism is not compared up the
Speaker 1: WHICHUD isn't.
Speaker 7: The hijack fee the state and is misrepresenting Israel equals
Speaker 7: this policemen, then they're nick cleansing.
Speaker 1: Under one on the list for being more verbal curse
Speaker 1: every saying this says the Adorers and Balfour was not
Speaker 1: a ways manchine or grosscheut between them. The worstity created
Speaker 1: and it went on. But perhaps This next video is
Speaker 1: the worst because you see the thugs violently smash labor
Speaker 1: politician Daniel Molino's office window with hammers, and they also
Speaker 1: paint the red upside down triangle that stands for hamastation.
Speaker 8: Lists that we were and which package that lets but
Speaker 8: la camo basshutin sis and I said, you know it's
Speaker 8: leffers de famous regions for unfair again but again, but
Speaker 8: again by again, Belgada ended the game. Maybe said Tomba
Speaker 8: or Macusilader, not Lama Vic.
Speaker 1: Daniel Milino is a regular guest on this show. He's
Speaker 1: a labor MP. His office was closed for two weeks
Speaker 1: after it was trashed, and then just as he was
Speaker 1: about to move back in, it was trashed again.
Speaker 4: People are emailing or calling or walking off the street
Speaker 4: with individual concerns and this.
Speaker 1: That's right, all right, right, you do not remember that's artwork,
Speaker 1: which is utiful.
Speaker 6: Seq.
Speaker 1: That's what he's dealing with on a daily basis. But
Speaker 1: the Insta account, the Instagram account that posted that video
Speaker 1: actually takes the credit. It says we his constituents opposed
Speaker 1: to genocide paid him a visit and it had that
Speaker 1: violent video that I just showed you before. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're all openly posting these videos. The Victorian editor for
Speaker 1: the Australian newspaper, Damon Johnston, reports today that despite pro
Speaker 1: Palestinian vandals attacking up to a dozen federal and state
Speaker 1: electored officers in the wake of October seven terror attacks,
Speaker 1: Victoria Police confirmed it was yet to call in or
Speaker 1: establish a dedicated task force to lead the investigation. Asked
Speaker 1: by The Australian whether it could confirm how many attacks
Speaker 1: on electored officers were being investigated, how many the arrests
Speaker 1: and charges had been laid, and whether calling in a
Speaker 1: specialist task force was being considered, Victoria Police said these
Speaker 1: incidents are investigated by local crime investigation units. We do
Speaker 1: not have overall stats. I mean, can it really be
Speaker 1: that hard for police to do their jobs. It's likely
Speaker 1: the attacks on different politicians officers are being done by
Speaker 1: the same group of people, given they're posting their own
Speaker 1: videos to the same social media accounts with the same
Speaker 1: hashtags and the same group is taking credit for them
Speaker 1: in a sign off image at the end. So how
Speaker 1: can police treat them as separate incidents and not set
Speaker 1: up a task force? Perhaps interviewing the people that run
Speaker 1: these pro Palestinian groups linked to the social media accounts
Speaker 1: would be one obvious place to start. Because politicians, their staff,
Speaker 1: and the entire Jewish commun unity are being intimidated. The
Speaker 1: activists themselves are warning this is going to escalate. Already.
Speaker 1: The fire and violence at Josh Burns's office this week
Speaker 1: was more dangerous than the attacks that came before, and
Speaker 1: Josh Burns is seriously worried that someone is going to
Speaker 1: get hurt or, as he says, or worse.
Speaker 9: This morning, six people turned up to my office. They
Speaker 9: came with kerosene, They smashed in windows with a hammer.
Speaker 9: They spray painted on the outside of my office. We've
Speaker 9: seen our family on the other side of the world
Speaker 9: being caught up in conflict, and I you know, if
Speaker 9: I could, if I could do anything to stop this
Speaker 9: conflict from happening any longer, I would do it. But
Speaker 9: we can't do that in Australia. We just don't have
Speaker 9: that sort of leverage. I'm nervous about it escalating even further.
Speaker 9: I'm nervous about someone getting hurt or worse.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no indication that police or the Prime Minister
Speaker 1: is taking this seriously. Enough and this is what worries me.
Speaker 1: This lawlessness is out of control and where are the authorities.
Speaker 1: It's a point former Treasurer Josh Friedenberg made. He said,
Speaker 1: what we need is more action from our political leaders
Speaker 1: and law enforcement to protect the community. Our leaders must
Speaker 1: step up and rest control back from the mob, a
Speaker 1: mob that has had free reign since October seven to
Speaker 1: act in a violent, hateful and UnAustralian manner. He says,
Speaker 1: it's not just the Jewish community that's under attack, it's
Speaker 1: Australia's social cohesion that is under attack and the very
Speaker 1: values that underpin it. And Josh says, as he keeps saying,
Speaker 1: this is Australia's fight, Let's be very clear. We are
Speaker 1: seeing a dereliction of duty. The truth is there's a
Speaker 1: lack of political will to take action. When Albineasy criticizes
Speaker 1: these attacks, and he does criticize them, he often says
Speaker 1: a line that it undermines the Palestinian cause.
Speaker 10: And how people think that they advance their cause through
Speaker 10: activities like this is beyond me.
Speaker 11: It does nothing.
Speaker 10: It undermines the cause that people purport to represent. It
Speaker 10: is unacceptable that misinformation has been consciously and deliberately spread
Speaker 10: by some Green senators and Mpeace.
Speaker 11: He have engaged in this in demonstrations outside.
Speaker 10: Offices and online. All of us have a responsibility to
Speaker 10: prevent conflict in the Middle East from being used as
Speaker 10: a platform for prejudice here at home.
Speaker 1: And in that statement he went on to say again
Speaker 1: that it undermines the Palestinian cause, for which he said
Speaker 1: he has advocated for his whole life. Well, these are
Speaker 1: very weak statements that it undermines their cause. Because these
Speaker 1: criminals are posting the hamas symbol and slogans like Zionism
Speaker 1: is fascism. It doesn't undermine the cause because there is
Speaker 1: no cause there. Anti Semitism isn't a cause, and that
Speaker 1: shows you how morally feeble our prime minister is. But
Speaker 1: it's not just the police and our politicians. You have
Speaker 1: to look at the media too. Now. The ABC seven
Speaker 1: thirty report had a good look at this issue, at
Speaker 1: the vandalism of politicians and their officers last week. It
Speaker 1: was a good report, but then look how they present it.
Speaker 1: They had this headline, are guars of protesters crossing the
Speaker 1: line by vandalizing MP's offices question mark? Yes, of course
Speaker 1: they are the failure of law enforcement is so alarming
Speaker 1: that a former Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions for the Commonwealth,
Speaker 1: Mark Legrand, has been spur word to speak out. Legrand,
Speaker 1: who was also a member of the National Crime Authority,
Speaker 1: will he's going to come on my program on Monday
Speaker 1: night to speak about this. But in the meantime, he
Speaker 1: says that Jews have been abandoned by those charged with
Speaker 1: enforcing the rule of law and equal protection. He says
Speaker 1: they've been abandoned by governments, by police, and by the
Speaker 1: so called human rights and racial vilification bodies. And he
Speaker 1: holds the Prime Minister squarely responsible because he says it's
Speaker 1: Albanese's duty to protect the people or people, not just some.
Speaker 1: And Mark LaGrand recounts that in nineteen seventy five, Asio
Speaker 1: uncovered a plan by Palestinian terrorists to assassinate Bob Hawk
Speaker 1: for his support of Israel, along with several high profile
Speaker 1: Jewish figures. Now, Hawk at the time was a proud
Speaker 1: advocate for the state of Israel, and as you know,
Speaker 1: he said famous that if the bell tolls for Israel,
Speaker 1: it tolls for all of mankind. Well, Mark Legrand writes
Speaker 1: in the Australian that Albanesi would know this history from
Speaker 1: the official briefings, and he writes that in this context,
Speaker 1: by his failure to commit to urgent and serious action
Speaker 1: to rain in this rampant jew hatred, his government is
Speaker 1: complicit and playing with fire. This contagion of jew hatred
Speaker 1: is expanding exponentially from past experience. It soon will become
Speaker 1: difficult to control. He writes. The blood, libels and racial
Speaker 1: tropes that have bedeviled the Jewish people for more than
Speaker 1: a millennium are being resurrected. Legrand says that to avoid
Speaker 1: a future tragedy, Albanesi must act with commitment, vigor and courage.
Speaker 1: And you have to ask is he even paying close attention?
Speaker 1: Is ASIO are the intelligence agencies? Is the AFP? Because
Speaker 1: we cannot let this get to the point where someone
Speaker 1: is injured or worse, our political leaders and our police
Speaker 1: must act now to arrest these extremists and stop this
Speaker 1: clear escalation in violence. Everyone can see it's happening. We
Speaker 1: can't put up with the Prime Minister being weak on
Speaker 1: this issue simply for some votes in marginal Western Sydney seats.
Speaker 1: The safety of politicians, their staff and Jewish Australians are
Speaker 1: far too important.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Also coming up on the show tonight, the farcical Simpson
Speaker 1: inspired response to Peter Dutton's nuclear plan, as Labor kicks
Speaker 1: off their Scare campaign today. Also ahead the gruesome trade
Speaker 1: in illegal human old and transplants in China. Renowned international
Speaker 1: human rights lawyer David Mattis will join me live in
Speaker 1: the studio. Plus why the new ABC chair follows a
Speaker 1: predictable path, No new vision, just the same old demands
Speaker 1: for more of your money. But first let's bring in
Speaker 1: tonight's panel, Perth Mayre, Basil Zemplus and Bill Shorten's former
Speaker 1: chief of staff Cameron Milner. Welcome to you both, Basil.
Speaker 1: Let's first discuss the editorial, the issue that I've just
Speaker 1: spoken about. Basil, are you concerned that law enforcement isn't
Speaker 1: doing enough and this is going to get to the
Speaker 1: point where there's a serious incident and someone is injured?
Speaker 7: So I think we need to accept, don't we that
Speaker 7: whatever your view on the conflict in the Middle East
Speaker 7: is in that region, whatever people do here, certainly they
Speaker 7: can speak up and make forceful points and make their
Speaker 7: opinions known. But anything they do of a vandalism nature
Speaker 7: or of a violent nature, does nothing to address or
Speaker 7: arrest what is happening.
Speaker 2: In the Middle East. And then to here, for example.
Speaker 7: The ABC pose that question, have those protesters.
Speaker 2: Cross the line?
Speaker 7: Let's put it nice and simply, if I walked out
Speaker 7: of the building I'm in right now when and vandalize
Speaker 7: the building across the road, would media say has he
Speaker 7: crossed the line? Or would they say throw the book
Speaker 7: at him? It seems almost incomprehensible that this sort of
Speaker 7: behavior can be tolerated, and.
Speaker 2: We need to treat it for what it is.
Speaker 7: They are violent acts, they are acts of vandalism, they
Speaker 7: are illegal acts, and we expect our law enforcement agencies,
Speaker 7: doesn't matter who's involved or perpetrating them, we expect them
Speaker 7: to act. And if they started acting here, it might
Speaker 7: go a long way to calming the situation down.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, I agree, and I just want to reiterate
Speaker 1: that I also agree with your opening statement. I say
Speaker 1: it many times that everyone has a different view on
Speaker 1: the war. We live in a free country. Freedom of speech.
Speaker 1: That's absolutely fine. What's not fine is the hatred and
Speaker 1: the lawlessness, the violence, the aggression, fires being burnt in
Speaker 1: someone's office. Cameron, the Prime Minister must realize he's got
Speaker 1: a major problem on his hands, but it seems like
Speaker 1: he just doesn't know how to respond, or he doesn't
Speaker 1: want to respond. What do you think is going on here?
Speaker 3: Well, Albanese is wallowing in his own complete weakness on
Speaker 3: this issue. It's disgusting to see. But worse, I mean
Speaker 3: Basil in your own state of West Australia, there's a
Speaker 3: Labor senator who's accused Israel not once, but three times
Speaker 3: of genocide and she still sits in the Labor caucus.
Speaker 3: That demonstrates how weak Albanese is. Wong's running a protection
Speaker 3: racket for someone who's disgraced herself on Israel, written for
Speaker 3: Al Jazeera, gone to the campus protest like a Green senator,
Speaker 3: the one that Prime Minister complains about, but Albo still
Speaker 3: has her vote. She should be gone from the Labour
Speaker 3: Party of albov Sirius about this gone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And look, if they were serious about this, they
Speaker 1: would have the judicial inquiry into anti Semitism on university
Speaker 1: campuses instead of shutting down debate when Julian Lisa football.
Speaker 1: There's all sorts of action they should be could be
Speaker 1: taking here. They could designate his book to reer as
Speaker 1: a terrorist organization. There's a lot of action that they're
Speaker 1: just not taking. Let's turn to nuclear now, that has
Speaker 1: been the big story we've been covering this week, and
Speaker 1: Labor is already kicking off its scare campaign into Peter
Speaker 1: Dutton's nuclear energy announcement. Well as you would have seen
Speaker 1: already on air tonight, Peter Khalil mocked Dutton's announcement of
Speaker 1: building seven nuclear reactors. He likened it to snow White
Speaker 1: and the nuclear reactors and the seven dwarves. Another Labor politician,
Speaker 1: Andrew Lee, posted a manipulated image of a three eyed
Speaker 1: blinky bill in front of a nuclear plant. So it's
Speaker 1: I guess trying to say, this is what's going to
Speaker 1: happen to our koalas. And then the Victorian Premier just
Speaker 1: Into Allen posted an image of a three eyed fish
Speaker 1: in Gibbs that now they were, of course referencing this
Speaker 1: Simpsons episode where toxic spills caused three eight fish.
Speaker 5: All right, we gay.
Speaker 12: Wait a minute, one two.
Speaker 1: Basil, given there are thirty two other countries around the
Speaker 1: world using nuclear energy as part of their energy mix.
Speaker 1: If Labour's resorting to referencing an outdated Simpsons episode. Isn't
Speaker 1: this juvenile and actually irresponsible and false?
Speaker 2: Well, it is juvenile.
Speaker 7: We can still find juvenile funny and hello to Pauline
Speaker 7: Hanson and Robert Irwin who are battling out their own
Speaker 7: issues in this space at the moment. But we also know,
Speaker 7: don't we, that of the top twenty economies worldwide, Australia
Speaker 7: is the only one not involved. We also know it
Speaker 7: is emissions free and we know how important that is
Speaker 7: to Australians. I wonder Sherry has Labor made a big
Speaker 7: mistake here? We know that the Coalition's fortunes and also
Speaker 7: in particular Peter Dutton's fortunes, have been on the rise,
Speaker 7: and we've known this announcement was coming for some time.
Speaker 7: But despite that, the polls heading in the right direction
Speaker 7: for Dutton and the coalition.
Speaker 2: He's been bold.
Speaker 7: Have Labor backed the wrong horse here by going out
Speaker 7: all out on the scare campaign? Would they not be
Speaker 7: better off trying to put their counterfacts. I don't think
Speaker 7: Australians are as opposed as what Federal Labor are trying
Speaker 7: to tell us. And as we know, Dutton stands for
Speaker 7: something we know what he stands for.
Speaker 2: It's bold, its conviction, and.
Speaker 7: He's prepared to put it to the people at the
Speaker 7: next federal election. And if Labor have called it wrong,
Speaker 7: they may pay the ultimate price.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really interesting take because the common view
Speaker 1: is that it's Peter Dutton who's taken the greatest political
Speaker 1: risk here. But Basil, you mentioned the PM going all
Speaker 1: in attacking Dutton. Will let's have a look at some
Speaker 1: of what he ought to say today.
Speaker 11: This is just a fantasy.
Speaker 10: Instead of snow White and the seven dwarves, this is
Speaker 10: Peter Dutton and the seven nuclear reactors.
Speaker 1: So Cameron, I mean the Prime ministers really attacking Darton
Speaker 1: over there. So what do you think on this question
Speaker 1: of political risk?
Speaker 3: Well, I think about the fairy tale where Anthony Albanese
Speaker 3: is Pinocchio. I think that's quite funny too. But look, seriously, seriously,
Speaker 3: Labour's got a challenge. Both Peter Dutton and Anthony Albaneze
Speaker 3: have a plan to be net zero by twenty fifty.
Speaker 3: Anthony Albanese's plan is massive cost of transition, huge smashing
Speaker 3: power bills from here for the next twenty five years,
Speaker 3: or proven reliable technology. The rest of the world uses
Speaker 3: with nuclear power. That's Peter Dutton's pan plan. So Peter
Speaker 3: and Darton can actually keep power prices down now and
Speaker 3: still meet net zero by twenty fifty. Anthony Alberanez can't
Speaker 3: do that. Peter Dutton's plan is made in the US, France,
Speaker 3: and Germany. Albow's energy transition plan is made in China.
Speaker 6: That's the difference.
Speaker 13: Cherry tooting Worth considering there, we know how much we
Speaker 13: know how much the Labor government have liked to throw
Speaker 13: back at the coalition, the no Alison tag, always being negative,
Speaker 13: always criticizing, not giving opportunities a chance to breathe and
Speaker 13: see what people think.
Speaker 6: Well, that's what.
Speaker 7: They're doing here with nuclear So I think Dutton has
Speaker 7: played this very very well.
Speaker 2: Ultimately, he's going to live and.
Speaker 7: Die by taking this policy forward in such a big
Speaker 7: way at the next federal election.
Speaker 2: But he's not a mug.
Speaker 7: He's thought it through, he's been very clear on his convictions,
Speaker 7: and he seems very confident. Shoulders pinned back making these announcements,
Speaker 7: and suddenly suddenly the emphasis is back on Labor to
Speaker 7: see their response, and so far they're throwing up for
Speaker 7: snow white and the Seven Dwarfs sorts of responses, which
Speaker 7: doesn't cover them in glory.
Speaker 2: I don't think yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think also when you see people like Chris
Speaker 1: Bowen stand up and say that Peter Dutton's selling a scam, well,
Speaker 1: the problem is that Chris Bowen's credibility is so smashed
Speaker 1: to smithereens that are you going to believe Chris Bowen
Speaker 1: or Peter Dutton? And ultimately it does come down to
Speaker 1: a question of trust. Cameron, don't tell me you're going
Speaker 1: to try stick up for Chris Bowen over here.
Speaker 3: I think Chris is actually a visionary. I think he's
Speaker 3: actually done really well to put his ideas for just
Speaker 3: like Peter Dutton has. He's actually got the courage of conviction,
Speaker 3: which is something sadly lacking and missing in the Prime Minister.
Speaker 1: All right, Cameron Milner, Basil samplis great to see you
Speaker 1: both as always on a Thursday. Thank you. After the
Speaker 1: break will bring you new polling on New Clear. This
Speaker 1: will be the polling that shows whether Peter Dutton is
Speaker 1: on the right track. It's just for us exclusively tonight,
Speaker 1: class I'll be joined live in studio by renowned human
Speaker 1: rights lawyer David Matters, that's after this quick break, welcome back. Well,
Speaker 1: China's record on human rights abuses is appalling, yet it's
Speaker 1: an issue that failed to get much airtime during this
Speaker 1: week's visit by Chinese Premier Lee.
Speaker 11: Well. We do have differences, and I've said we should
Speaker 11: cooperate where we can, we disagree where we must. We
Speaker 11: certainly raised all of the issues where Australia and China
Speaker 11: have differences, but we shouldn't allow those differences to solely
Speaker 11: define our relationship.
Speaker 1: And one growing problem is China's organ harvesting practices. We
Speaker 1: don't hear much about it, but there have been extensive
Speaker 1: reports that state run hospitals have secretly harvested body parts
Speaker 1: from tens of thousands of prisoners, removing their vital organs,
Speaker 1: sometimes while they're alive. It's reportedly been common practice in
Speaker 1: China for nearly two decades. David Matus is a renowned
Speaker 1: international human rights lawyer and he's been investigating this industry
Speaker 1: and joins me now, David, thank you very much for
Speaker 1: your time.
Speaker 12: Thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 1: Now. You're in Australia primarily to campaign for legislation and
Speaker 1: regulation in this area. How serious and extensive is the problem?
Speaker 1: And can you tell us just a bit about why
Speaker 1: China harvests organs?
Speaker 12: It's throughout China. The problem, it's the numbers are large,
Speaker 12: one hundred thousand organs a year, so it's pervasive and
Speaker 12: it's been going on since the early two thousands. Why
Speaker 12: are they harvesting them? It's partly a money made scheme.
Speaker 12: There's a big demand for organs around the world, and
Speaker 12: it's partly a way of repressing political opponents. The victims
Speaker 12: are primarily prisoners or conscience practitioners of Fellongong, Wiggers, Tibetans,
Speaker 12: house Christians and.
Speaker 1: Other particular body parts that are most commonly harvested.
Speaker 12: Well, it's a market that it depends on demand. So
Speaker 12: the biggest demand for organs is kidneys, but they'll and
Speaker 12: in theory you can survive with the loss of kidney,
Speaker 12: but in fact nobody survives these organ extractions because they
Speaker 12: extract several organs at once and people are killed through
Speaker 12: organ extraction.
Speaker 1: The brutal operations. And how do you go about investigating this?
Speaker 1: I mean, you know famously China it doesn't welcome journalists.
Speaker 1: So has this been a difficult area for you to examine.
Speaker 12: It's been time consuming, for instance, for transplant volumes. What
Speaker 12: we did is we went to the individual hospitals and
Speaker 12: added up what they posted on their websites, and we
Speaker 12: went to about seven hundred hospitals. So as you can imagine,
Speaker 12: it took a lot of time to do that, but
Speaker 12: it's conceptually not very difficult. We interviewed people who got
Speaker 12: out of a prison out of China, and they told
Speaker 12: us the Fell and Gong practitioners were blood tested, organ
Speaker 12: examined and the others were not. We had investigators calling
Speaker 12: into China pretending to be relative patients who wanted organs,
Speaker 12: asking if they had organs of Fell and Gong for
Speaker 12: sale on the basis that Talongong is an exercise regime
Speaker 12: and organs are healthy. And we got admissions throughout China
Speaker 12: recorded and transcribed translated saying yes, please come on down,
Speaker 12: we have them. So it's a concumulation of evidence.
Speaker 1: Like we've seen the United Nations and other international bodies
Speaker 1: take a keen interest in condemning Israel in recent months,
Speaker 1: how much interest have these bodies taken in the specific
Speaker 1: issue of organ harvesting, but also more broadly, China is
Speaker 1: well recorded human rights abuses.
Speaker 12: Well certainly is not treated with the intensity that Israel
Speaker 12: is at the UN. But there were twelve UN Human
Speaker 12: Rights rapporteurs in July or June twenty twenty one who
Speaker 12: issued a joint statement saying this credible evidence of foreign
Speaker 12: organ harvesting with prisoner of conscience victims, Well Kong victims,
Speaker 12: that the expressed serious concern, asked China to cooperate with
Speaker 12: an independent investigation, and asked Chinese to respond, which they
Speaker 12: did with nonsense. So it's not as if they've been
Speaker 12: completely silent, but it's certainly in commensurate with the nature
Speaker 12: of the problem.
Speaker 1: Look, since Israel was attacked by terrorists on October seven,
Speaker 1: we do need to keep pointing that out. That Israel
Speaker 1: was attacked. There has been this very confusing, bewildering, inexplicable
Speaker 1: rise in anti Semitism globally, pretty much on precedent in Australia.
Speaker 1: What you focus on this area a lot? We've all
Speaker 1: thought about this topic a lot. What do you put
Speaker 1: this down to in twenty twenty four where in all
Speaker 1: other areas we have the most accepting, woke, you know,
Speaker 1: society that prides itself on equality and not being racist,
Speaker 1: and yet there's been this tolerance of anti Semitism.
Speaker 12: Well, I think it's got a large part to do
Speaker 12: with the Hamas strategy, which was first of all to
Speaker 12: attack Israel and then to retreat within tunnels and use
Speaker 12: Palestinian civilians as shields and trying to engineer Palestinian victimization
Speaker 12: to the extent possible and then blame the victimization on Israel.
Speaker 12: And to a large extent, many people around the world
Speaker 12: have bought into this Hamas strategy and blame Israel for
Speaker 12: the killings that Hamas has engineered as civilian Palestinians.
Speaker 1: David Matis really appreciate your time in you being here.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
Speaker 12: Okay, thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 1: Now let's return to the nuclear debate. I told you
Speaker 1: we would have new polling on this issue tonight. It
Speaker 1: is shaping up as the major political contest ahead of
Speaker 1: the next election, and the question is that we're all
Speaker 1: asking will vote as support Dutton's plan for nuclear energy
Speaker 1: or will they buy Labour's fear campaign. Well, we've got
Speaker 1: new polling tonight from Freshwater Strategy, and it shows that
Speaker 1: support for nuclear in the past nine months has gained
Speaker 1: five points to reach thirty seven percent. Meantime, support for
Speaker 1: renewables since May last year has declined fifteen points from
Speaker 1: seventy four percent to fifty nine percent, and support for
Speaker 1: non renewables is up four points in the same period.
Speaker 1: And the same poll has shown that the Prime Minister
Speaker 1: is now only two points ahead of Peter Dutton, sitting
Speaker 1: at forty three percent to Dutton's forty one percent on
Speaker 1: the preferred prime minister survey. To break this down, let's
Speaker 1: bring in Freshwater Strategy Director Leo Shanahan. Leo, thank you
Speaker 1: very much for joining us. I'm so glad you've brought
Speaker 1: us this polling because this is what it comes down
Speaker 1: to now, this nuclear debate is going to be the
Speaker 1: big political battleground ahead of the next election. What is
Speaker 1: your polling show about and Labor's relying on the fact
Speaker 1: that Australians don't want to have nuclear What is your
Speaker 1: polling show about Australians sentiment?
Speaker 4: Well, I think it is interesting, Sherry, because, as you
Speaker 4: mentioned at the beginning, nuclear is on the rise in
Speaker 4: terms of support now comparatively compared to solar gas is
Speaker 4: actually hugely popular as well, not as popular, but it
Speaker 4: is more popular now according to our polling, than cole,
Speaker 4: which is already in the system and very much needed
Speaker 4: in the current environment. Here we are in the middle
Speaker 4: of winter, but look at thirty seven percent in our polling.
Speaker 4: That's up five points since June last year, sorry, since September,
Speaker 4: just September last year, and that is not an insignificant rise.
Speaker 4: And it's also coincided with this increasing awareness around nuclears.
Speaker 4: So to your point, if the government wants to turn
Speaker 4: the next election into a referendum on nuclear it does
Speaker 4: probably have to be a little careful in the way
Speaker 4: it constructs that argument, as we've seen these early rollouts
Speaker 4: of memes and you know, three eyed Fish, etc. Simpson's references.
Speaker 4: But it has to be a little careful that in
Speaker 4: doing that, people don't start to educate themselves a lot
Speaker 4: more on nuclear and the benefits of nuclear and decide
Speaker 4: this is perhaps not as scary as we thought. And
Speaker 4: in campaigns sometimes on one side pushes so hard so early,
Speaker 4: there is sometimes a corresponding pushback people to say, hang on,
Speaker 4: shouldn't we have some awareness of what this is actually
Speaker 4: about and rather than just rely on knee jerk fear mongering.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that the period over which support for nuclear
Speaker 1: has risen coincides with when Peter Dutton said that he
Speaker 1: was going to have a nuclear policy. Yeah, it's going
Speaker 1: to take one to the next election. So you know,
Speaker 1: perhaps this also is an indication that he's able to
Speaker 1: mount an argument and he has the time to convince
Speaker 1: Australians and you know what, the fear campaign might not
Speaker 1: be as effective given we look around the world and
Speaker 1: we see what other nations are doing. Yeah, both three
Speaker 1: eyed fish in France or Canada or the US.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we are the outlier really in the G twenty
Speaker 4: in terms of nuclear and many aren't. I think one
Speaker 4: of the few is Indonesia that don't have nuclear and
Speaker 4: they're looking into it as well. So, I mean, I
Speaker 4: think it's interesting because it's also coincided with an increasing,
Speaker 4: shall we say, skepticism about the ability of renewables to.
Speaker 6: Solve all our problems.
Speaker 4: We ask a question kind of based purely upon your preference,
Speaker 4: would it be for renewable energy sources or non renewable
Speaker 4: energy sources? And yes, renewable energy source is still very high.
Speaker 4: It's still very popular generally speaking, at fifty nine percent.
Speaker 4: But that is a pretty steep decline from seventy four
Speaker 4: percent just since September, and non renewable sources growing from
Speaker 4: about fourteen to eighteen percent in the same amount of
Speaker 4: time cost of living.
Speaker 2: Time period exactly.
Speaker 4: So all our polling shows number one in terms of
Speaker 4: concern cost of living, one, two and three, you know,
Speaker 4: number one issues we lee I.
Speaker 1: Want to ask you about. You know, alban Ezi had
Speaker 1: a very long honeymoon. What does your polling show about
Speaker 1: his favorability how voters are looking at him and Peter
Speaker 1: Dutton in terms of their preference for who would be PM.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean on that primary vote, that kind
Speaker 4: of key primary vote.
Speaker 6: We've got the Liberal.
Speaker 4: National Coalition of forty percent that's unchanged since our last
Speaker 4: poll labored down thirty two percent. There's actually an eight
Speaker 4: point gap in that primary vote. And news poll out
Speaker 4: last week had very very similar numbers. Now, what is
Speaker 4: interesting in terms of preferred prime minister, we're now looking
Speaker 4: at almost dead even, you know, forty one forty three percent.
Speaker 4: Another poll out this week had.
Speaker 1: Most polices should just remind people that the preferred prime
Speaker 1: minister measure that usually favors the incumbent. It usually favors
Speaker 1: the sitting prime minister because they're already in.
Speaker 4: The job, definitely, and it's pretty rare for an opposition
Speaker 4: leader who isn't in an election winning position to start
Speaker 4: getting ahead or get ahead in preferred prime minister. So
Speaker 4: there would be a lot of comfort in Peter Tutton's campra.
Speaker 1: And a lot of panic at labor side. You'd have
Speaker 1: to think it. Their polling is showing the same.
Speaker 4: Maybe not panicking yet, but yeah, if that, maybe they'll
Speaker 4: be rethinking that election, Tommy, Yeah, all.
Speaker 1: Right, Leo Shanahan, thank you very much for thank Now
Speaker 1: coming up, is former Quantus CEO Alan Joyce really worth
Speaker 1: the one hundred and seventy million dollars he's been paid
Speaker 1: over the years, while flights keep getting canceled and the
Speaker 1: Democrats boycotting net In Yahoo's addressed to Congress as anti
Speaker 1: Israel's sentiment ramps up globally statued welcome back. Well here's
Speaker 1: the one hundred and seventy million dollar man, Alan Joyce,
Speaker 1: and an independent consultant is now tasked with deciding whether
Speaker 1: the former Quantus chief executive deserves the sixteen million dollar
Speaker 1: bonus he was given. Alan Joyce, of course, he's pushing
Speaker 1: to keep his long term bonus of nearly fourteen million
Speaker 1: and his short term bonus of two million dollars and
Speaker 1: in total, The Australian reports that he has been paid
Speaker 1: over one seventy million over fifteen years as chief executive.
Speaker 1: Let's bring in tonight's panel, the Australians at National Affairs
Speaker 1: editor Joe Kelly and commentator Jason Morrison. Welcome to you both.
Speaker 1: Look Joe that the problems during Alan Joyce's reign as
Speaker 1: CEO of Quantas are well recorded. An aging fleet, he
Speaker 1: outsourced a number of important services, not to mention the
Speaker 1: three hundred million dollars in taxpayer subsidies during COVID never repaid,
Speaker 1: flights constantly canceled. But he says he deserves a bonus,
Speaker 1: his sixteen million dollar bonus.
Speaker 5: What do you think, Well, I think most Australians would
Speaker 5: think the idea of a sixteen million dollar windfall payment
Speaker 5: for Alan Joyce stinks, Sherry. That's what That's what I think.
Speaker 5: I think it's quite clear that the Quantas board is
Speaker 5: very concerned about how it will look for its image
Speaker 5: as well. This is a company going through a transition
Speaker 5: that's really asking for a fresh start and a new
Speaker 5: beginning from dispirited Australian travelers. We've got a new chief
Speaker 5: executive and a new chair coming in and quite frankly,
Speaker 5: sixteen million dollars is huge. Recently the airline got hit
Speaker 5: with a one hundred and twenty million dollar penalty because
Speaker 5: it charged people for canceled flights. Well, Alan Joyce is
Speaker 5: asking for sixteen million dollars. That's more than a tenth
Speaker 5: of that payment that it's just been hit with. So
Speaker 5: I think it's a bad look for the airline and
Speaker 5: I think, you know, if they can get out of it,
Speaker 5: it would make sense for them to explore those options.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they obviously I keen too, given there's this
Speaker 1: independent task loss trying to find terms in the clause
Speaker 1: that could get them out of paying this amount of money.
Speaker 6: Jason, what's the board there for?
Speaker 14: I mean, the board's job is surely you stand up
Speaker 14: for the best interests of the airline. He did incredible
Speaker 14: damage to the airline. Whether it was intentional, accidental, or
Speaker 14: just the way the man is, whatever it was, he's
Speaker 14: left them with a skullal. You never know, you never know,
Speaker 14: you never It seemed bizarre at the time. You can
Speaker 14: only wonder what the motives were at sometimes, but you
Speaker 14: look at what's going on in Quotas and you say,
Speaker 14: what the hell is the board doing? You know, you
Speaker 14: paid a lot of money and the chair is paid
Speaker 14: a lot of money and all the representatives there are
Speaker 14: all eminent people in the business community. Why you got
Speaker 14: to go and find an external report to tell you
Speaker 14: what's absolutely blaringly obvious here The answer is no, and
Speaker 14: have some courage and stand up and say no, rather
Speaker 14: than waive a reporter around and say, oh, we've got
Speaker 14: to report and the report said, you know, so we've
Speaker 14: got to go with the report. This is what's wrong
Speaker 14: with corporate Australia. A failure to make absolute decisions on
Speaker 14: things that are straight, plane and simple. And you know,
Speaker 14: I mean I feel sorry for the shareholders. I felt
Speaker 14: sorry for them whilst Allan Joyce was doing what he
Speaker 14: was doing, and I feel worse for them now because
Speaker 14: their board is letting them down at a moment when
Speaker 14: they actually should stand up and say.
Speaker 2: Mate, you know you want it, you come suis.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not even about their shareholders though, Isn't it
Speaker 1: about everyone who tries to catch a flight and it
Speaker 1: feels like a third of the time, doesn't matter what airline,
Speaker 1: Virgin Quantas jetsty the flights just get canceled. It's mayhem
Speaker 1: on so many days at the airports around the country now.
Speaker 1: Peter Darton came out swinging today over the Chinese officials
Speaker 1: who body blocked Australian journalist Chang Lei earlier this week.
Speaker 1: Darton said that he raised the incident immediately when he
Speaker 1: met with the Chinese premiere. We heard on the show
Speaker 1: last night Mike Bozulo indicate that the Prime Minister was
Speaker 1: slow to land on the right response. Joe, how do
Speaker 1: you think the Prime Minister handled this issue this week?
Speaker 1: These were clear bullying tactics that all Australians could see.
Speaker 5: Oh look, Sherry. My view on this is pretty simple.
Speaker 5: Australia is a liberal democracy with a free media. That's
Speaker 5: very important. It's a wonderful thing. Not all countries have
Speaker 5: a free media. It has to be defended, it has
Speaker 5: to be preserved, it has to be protected at the
Speaker 5: highest level. Frankly, I think this is terrible that this
Speaker 5: was allowed to happen in the first place, that an
Speaker 5: Australian journalist in Parliament House was blocked and intimidated by
Speaker 5: Chinese officials. It should be beyond question that foreign leaders
Speaker 5: and their officials when they come to this country, particularly
Speaker 5: and especially in the Australian Parliament, respect the freedom of
Speaker 5: the Australian media. So I just think that as soon
Speaker 5: as this was realized Anthony Bees he should publicly have
Speaker 5: made clear this was unacceptable, it was a breach of
Speaker 5: what Australia expected, and that should have been conveyed privately
Speaker 5: to Premier Lee as well.
Speaker 1: I mean, Jason, I think the issue here is that
Speaker 1: Albanezi had tried to tell the public that he'd now
Speaker 1: got the right balance, and yet the Chinese officials were
Speaker 1: able to so brazenly behave like this in our parliament.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you think the current government has the
Speaker 1: right approach?
Speaker 14: Yes, the balance is a bit like that, isn't it really?
Speaker 14: And it stays like that. We live in fear of
Speaker 14: upsetting them, we live in fear of standing up to them,
Speaker 14: we plicate them, and it's it's just evidence that it
Speaker 14: continues on. I wonder in the briefing notes that were
Speaker 14: sent there to them as they arrived. So just a reminder,
Speaker 14: this is an open democracy where people are allowed to
Speaker 14: ask questions, even insulting questions, be prepared.
Speaker 6: It's going to happen. I doubt it's there.
Speaker 14: There were probably assurances given that it would be the
Speaker 14: best possible environl for the best possible outcome. I found
Speaker 14: the whole scene to be quite sickening, and I think
Speaker 14: the arming and ring that's followed since right across politics
Speaker 14: to be kind of even worse. I mean, we have
Speaker 14: to actually remember, while they're in that house and they're
Speaker 14: there to stand up for us, they're not there to
Speaker 14: play diplomat all the time.
Speaker 2: Joe.
Speaker 1: In the US, a number of Democrats have indicated that
Speaker 1: they might boycott Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanya, who's addressed
Speaker 1: to Congress next month. Alexandria Ocazio Cortez. She went so
Speaker 1: far as to say that his invitations should be revoked. Joe,
Speaker 1: surely the prime minister of a democratic nation should be
Speaker 1: free to address Congress and an ally of the US.
Speaker 5: Well, there's no doubt, Sherry that Benjamin Netanya who should
Speaker 5: be free to do that. I don't think that should
Speaker 5: be questioned at all. I think the key thing about
Speaker 5: how this will play out politically in the US is
Speaker 5: what message Benjamin Netanya who comes with, what he will
Speaker 5: tell this joint meeting of Congress, and in particular, whether
Speaker 5: there is any update, progress or advancement on the achievement
Speaker 5: of Israel's political and military objectives in the Middle East.
Speaker 5: The reason that there is such frustration, it's significant frustration
Speaker 5: between the bid administration and Netnyahu government is because the
Speaker 5: blind administration has lost confidence that Israel can achieve those objectives.
Speaker 5: So I think the key thing will be whether there's
Speaker 5: any update there. If there's not and it's still a
Speaker 5: continuation of this stalemate, I think that will be tricky
Speaker 5: for the Binded administration and how it responds to that,
Speaker 5: as it has to meet the demands of conflicting constituencies
Speaker 5: in America.
Speaker 1: Comes down to politics, probably over and above principle, just
Speaker 1: as it is here. All right, Jason Morris and Joe Kelly,
Speaker 1: thank you both very much for your time. National Senator
Speaker 1: Matt Canavan joins me Live with a major update on
Speaker 1: his move to have a national COVID inquiry. You don't
Speaker 1: want to miss it. Welcome back.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: Australia's response to COVID nineteen has been the subject of
Speaker 1: much debate whether it's vaccines or mask mandates. But despite
Speaker 1: all the questions, we still seem no closer to any
Speaker 1: real answers about the best way to deal with a pandemic.
Speaker 1: Let's bring in National Senator Matt Canavan. Matt tell us,
Speaker 1: you've got some breaking news for us tonight. What are
Speaker 1: you planning to bring into Parliament next week?
Speaker 15: Well, next week I plan to introduce a bill to
Speaker 15: establish what's called a Commission of Inquiry into COVID nineteen.
Speaker 15: It's effectively just another word for a Royal commission. As
Speaker 15: you probably know your viewers probably know, the Prime Minister
Speaker 15: promised to have a Royal commission or Royal commission life
Speaker 15: inquiry into COVID nineteen when he was opposition leader, and
Speaker 15: just like many other promises the primm is to make
Speaker 15: when in government, he's broken that promise. Instead he's established
Speaker 15: a Clayton's Review stacked with people that were supportive of
Speaker 15: the most Rycranian lockdown and other measures taken during the pandemic.
Speaker 15: In contrast, what I will introduce next week is an
Speaker 15: inquiry has the powers just like a Royal commission. It's
Speaker 15: just called something different because it's established by the Parliament,
Speaker 15: not the Executive. It is going to have a terms
Speaker 15: of reference that is based on a Senate inquiry that
Speaker 15: has just been completed, where we didn't inquiry to what
Speaker 15: the terms of reference should cover. It will cover all
Speaker 15: types of things lockdowns, vaccines, etc. And in that inquiry
Speaker 15: there were five hundred and fifty nine submissions to that
Speaker 15: Senate inquiry. Just three were opposed to a COVID nineteen
Speaker 15: proper commission of inquiry.
Speaker 6: So this has broad support.
Speaker 15: The Labor Party should get behind it because is what
Speaker 15: they promised the trained people to do and Australians deserve
Speaker 15: a proper inquiry into what happened during and how we
Speaker 15: can learn the lessons from what went wrong.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it'll come down to whether you can get
Speaker 1: the numbers in the Senate to get this over the line.
Speaker 1: But it is something that absolutely every Australian should welcome
Speaker 1: because I mean, we've just seen hearings in the United
Speaker 1: States at the moment and we saw those shocking admissions
Speaker 1: from Anthony Facci that you know, the six meters of
Speaker 1: social distancing was just a figure he effectively made up
Speaker 1: but wasn't based on any firm research, you know, vaccines.
Speaker 1: People don't know what to believe. The interstate border closures. Again,
Speaker 1: this is a major issue. We could have another pandemic
Speaker 1: matt God forbid, but we could have one, and we
Speaker 1: need to have some research based ways to react to
Speaker 1: it if we.
Speaker 15: Do absolutely right, absolutely right, and you know, effectively, there
Speaker 15: was an experiment conducted on the populations of many countries
Speaker 15: about what governments could get away with. We know now
Speaker 15: that many times what they were telling us were straight
Speaker 15: out lies. Sometimes I suppose they were well intentioned lies
Speaker 15: to try and get people to comply, but there's got
Speaker 15: to be real questions asked about the damage to trust
Speaker 15: that's been done between the government and their people. I mean,
Speaker 15: a lot of people aren't taking even the normal vaccines now,
Speaker 15: we've had a massive drop off in those because, as
Speaker 15: I say, when you light to someone, you destroy that
Speaker 15: trust and it's very hard to get back once it's gone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, we've seen the research that even vaccines
Speaker 1: for babies and children that have been shown to be
Speaker 1: safe over decades, that people are starting not to give
Speaker 1: their kids those because of the genuine issues that have
Speaker 1: emerged with COVID vaccines. You know, a lot of people
Speaker 1: suffering well after months and even years after having the vaccine.
Speaker 1: Matt kim Williams, the new ABC chair, gave a big
Speaker 1: speech today. He said he had a new vision for
Speaker 1: the broadcaster, yet again it came down to doubt more funding.
Speaker 1: What did you make of his vision.
Speaker 6: Well, it's not surprising, it's not shocking. I suppose you.
Speaker 15: Public servants always ask for more money. But what I'd
Speaker 15: like to see is more efficiency, more productivity out of
Speaker 15: all of our public service, including the ABC. They already
Speaker 15: get a budget of over a billion dollars a year
Speaker 15: and if they need to make investments in what he
Speaker 15: calls the iView app or whatever it is, just like
Speaker 15: any other business, they should be asked to look inside
Speaker 15: themselves first and then on the other side of this too,
Speaker 15: I really question why we need to put so much
Speaker 15: money into a public broadcast of these days. There's so
Speaker 15: much alternative media out there. It's a very different environment
Speaker 15: than it was ten or twenty years ago. People can
Speaker 15: watch your show for free in regional Australia, there's podcasts,
Speaker 15: there's so.
Speaker 6: Much media out there.
Speaker 15: Why do we do we really need to spend a
Speaker 15: billion dollars a year on a national broadcaster.
Speaker 1: I mean, what I find so shocking is that one
Speaker 1: point one billion dollars a year. Other media companies, by
Speaker 1: the way, are constantly looking to make saving they're having
Speaker 1: to make staff redundant. The ABC gets this amount of
Speaker 1: money and it can't cover in a meaningful way the
Speaker 1: current antisemitism crisis. What is wrong with the public broadcaster?
Speaker 6: Well, it's bias too, right, of course.
Speaker 15: I don't have a particular issue with people having bias,
Speaker 15: as we all have them, we all have opinions. But
Speaker 15: the issue here is it's publicly funded and you and
Speaker 15: I can turn off Sky News or turn off the
Speaker 15: mainstream media.
Speaker 6: As I say, there's lots of alternatives now to go.
Speaker 15: To, but the ABC are going to pay for it
Speaker 15: whether I watch it or not, and it's not living
Speaker 15: up to its charter right now, to be fair and balves.
Speaker 15: There's no doubt about that, and it definitely doesn't deserve
Speaker 15: an increase in budget because of that.
Speaker 1: All right, Matt Canavan, thank you very much for your
Speaker 1: time tonight, and apology to everyone at home for my
Speaker 1: voice this evening. I had a bit of alergie early
Speaker 1: in the weekend. It's not quite recovered yet. I'll see
Speaker 1: you eight o'clock on Monday morning. Have a lovely weekend,
Speaker 1: but stay tuned. Paul Murray is up right now.